[FairfieldLife] Post Count Mon 30-Mar-15 00:15:05 UTC
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): 03/28/15 00:00:00 End Date (UTC): 04/04/15 00:00:00 106 messages as of (UTC) 03/29/15 23:43:45 19 richard 16 LEnglish5 15 TurquoiseBee turquoiseb 8 anartaxius 6 yifuxero 5 s3raphita 5 dhamiltony2k5 5 Michael Jackson mjackson74 5 Bhairitu noozguru 4 jason_green2 3 jr_esq 3 emily.mae50 3 email4you mikemail4you 2 ultrarishi 2 salyavin808 2 Mike Dixon mdixon.6569 1 hepa7 1 feste37 1 eustace10679 Posters: 19 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Does the term simile mean anything to you? Moving along the ground as a frog jumps probably doesn't mean your legs turn green, but that you move in a series of short hops, or so I would interpret it. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero@... wrote : Absolutely! The Dome but-bouncers can even come close to the hopping of real frogs. Refer to the websites on the frog-jumping contests at the Calaveras County fair. One site shows Larry the Cable Guy holding one of the champion frogs. Larry would'nt be caught dead in the Domes.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Kalama Sutra, a Buddhist text
A reliance on religious scriptures in order win a debate? So, you believe that a pre-historical Buddha reached enlightenment and that is excellent. But how exactly, would you be knowing whether anyone is an enlightened Buddha, or not? Go figure. Can anyone explain cognitive dissonance? Thanks. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Excellent. See the post I just made to JR. From: yifuxero@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 1:55 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Kalama Sutra, a Buddhist text Kālāma Sūtra - [from YouTube] Rely not on the teacher, but on the teaching. Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it ~
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with different flavours of the experience due to the differences in physiological state, or is the result the experience of two different ground states due to the differences of physiological state? If the former, what is the nature of truth if it is not an identical experience, and if the latter, if there are two different truths, what does that say about truth? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try to do with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved and Physiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulness by way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mind complex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditation evidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, that global-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is going on underneath. JaiGuruYou, -Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out to check the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rain likely, mainly before 10am. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: Quotation J. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymore conflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax and be still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become whole and unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of our thoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness and a goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in the world. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of this deep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pure consciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself. (Note that he is talking about this while being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because Maharishi specifically said he was in Unity. And true, probably few or none ever got enlightened by him because he just popped in, and never really knew how it happened, but you are welcome to point out those whom Maharishi enlightened (that is, that are in unity, not CC). More comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Can you point me to contemporary mindfulness essays or research on contemporary mindfulness practitioners where they describe a situation where there is no thought, no mantra, no awareness of the outside world, no awareness of the body, no emotion, no intuition, no memory, no mind content of any kind, and yet the meditator is still somehow awake? Also, mindfulness practices tend to disrupt the sense of self, as has been reported in quite a few modern
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ahhhhhh....life is good!
So, you like country music. But you probably won't be impressing your girlfriend by listing to your iPod and posting to FFL, when you're out on a date, Barry. LoL! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : A new double album from one of the best songwriters in the world. Now I know what my cafe soundtrack will be today. http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/ http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 5:54 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator Buck, you seem more coherent now that you are out of the dome. I was going to say the same thing, and without a hint of snark. It's been a pleasure to read Makes Sense Buck again. Really. Could it be when one door closes, another one opens? Don't live your life for others even if you are supportive of others. I saw Krishnamurti before I learned TM. I did not understand what he was talking about then, but now it makes sense, but much more than TM was involved in my coming to my present understanding. The more variety you have the more options you have for understanding something as long as you are able to coordinate the relationships between the various concepts, and have the ability to shed concepts that prove useless. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some ofyour best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as aknock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and ownminds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thingas they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try todo with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved andPhysiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulnessby way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mindcomplex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditationevidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, thatglobal-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is goingon underneath.JaiGuruYou,-Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out tocheck the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rainlikely, mainly before 10am. Chanceof precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than atenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: QuotationJ. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymoreconflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax andbe still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become wholeand unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of ourthoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness anda goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in theworld. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of thisdeep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pureconsciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself.(Note that he is talking about thiswhile being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because Maharishi specifically said he was in Unity. And true, probably few or none ever got enlightened by him because he just popped in, and never really knew how it happened, but you are welcome to point out those whom Maharishi enlightened (that is, that are in unity, not CC). More comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Can you point me to contemporary mindfulness essays or research on contemporary mindfulness practitioners where they describe a situation where there is no thought, no mantra, no awareness of the outside world, no awareness of the body, no emotion, no intuition, no memory, no mind content of any kind, and yet the meditator is still somehow awake? Also, mindfulness practices tend to disrupt the sense of self, as has been reported in quite a few modern studies on practitioners. In fact, researchers note that mind-wandering simply does not happen in long-term practitioners and count this a good thing: they note quite happily, that mindfulness reduces activity and interactions between the parts of the brain
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try to do with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved and Physiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulness by way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mind complex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditation evidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, that global-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is going on underneath. JaiGuruYou, -Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out to check the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rain likely, mainly before 10am. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: Quotation J. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymore conflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax and be still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become whole and unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of our thoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness and a goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in the world. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of this deep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pure consciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself. (Note that he is talking about this while being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because Maharishi specifically said he was in Unity. And true, probably few or none ever got enlightened by him because he just popped in, and never really knew how it happened, but you are welcome to point out those whom Maharishi enlightened (that is, that are in unity, not CC). More comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Can you point me to contemporary mindfulness essays or research on contemporary mindfulness practitioners where they describe a situation where there is no thought, no mantra, no awareness of the outside world, no awareness of the body, no emotion, no intuition, no memory, no mind content of any kind, and yet the meditator is still somehow awake? Also, mindfulness practices tend to disrupt the sense of self, as has been reported in quite a few modern studies on practitioners. In fact, researchers note that mind-wandering simply does not happen in long-term practitioners and count this a good thing: they note quite happily, that mindfulness reduces activity and interactions between the parts of the brain thought to be responsible for sense of self. TM, on the other hand, is taught in terms of allowing the mind to wander, and physiological research shows that the same activity and interactions that mindfulness reduces, TM enhances. Interestingly enough, this review article, Towards a neuroscience of mind-wandering (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3112331/
[FairfieldLife] Re: : ........THE BEST THING I HAVE EVER DONE........
always hearing the choral chanting of so many pandits, i get this absolute timeless experience ... http://www.maharishiindiacourses.com/?lang=en On Saturday, March 28, 2015 2:54 PM, email4you mikemail4...@yahoo.com wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttQUhsf392I | | | | | | | | | | | Maharishi Vedic Pandits-How it Feels to Hear 1331 Live. | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | excellent experience from a course paricipant of self timeless eternity ...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Buck, you seem more coherent now that you are out of the dome. Could it be when one door closes, another one opens? Don't live your life for others even if you are supportive of others. I saw Krishnamurti before I learned TM. I did not understand what he was talking about then, but now it makes sense, but much more than TM was involved in my coming to my present understanding. The more variety you have the more options you have for understanding something as long as you are able to coordinate the relationships between the various concepts, and have the ability to shed concepts that prove useless. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try to do with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved and Physiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulness by way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mind complex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditation evidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, that global-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is going on underneath. JaiGuruYou, -Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out to check the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rain likely, mainly before 10am. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: Quotation J. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymore conflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax and be still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become whole and unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of our thoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness and a goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in the world. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of this deep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pure consciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself. (Note that he is talking about this while being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because Maharishi specifically said he was in Unity. And true, probably few or none ever got enlightened by him because he just popped in, and never really knew how it happened, but you are welcome to point out those whom Maharishi enlightened (that is, that are in unity, not CC). More comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Can you point me to contemporary mindfulness essays or research on contemporary mindfulness practitioners where they describe a situation where there is no thought, no mantra, no awareness of the outside world, no awareness of the body, no emotion, no intuition, no memory, no mind content of any kind, and yet the meditator is still somehow awake? Also, mindfulness practices tend to disrupt the sense of self, as has been reported in quite a few modern studies on practitioners. In fact, researchers note that mind-wandering simply does not happen in long-term practitioners and count this a good thing: they note quite happily, that mindfulness reduces activity and interactions between the parts of the brain thought to be responsible for sense of self. TM, on the other hand, is taught in terms of allowing the mind to wander, and physiological research shows that the same activity and interactions that mindfulness reduces, TM enhances. Interestingly enough, this review article,
[FairfieldLife] Kalamata Sutra
Olive to see another day.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
You probably won't like this one, either. :-) But for fans of high mountain harmony, this is a true gem, such that I have to pass it along, just in case there is someone here who might appreciate it. It's a little-known version of a song made famous by Art Garfunkel, but sung here by the songwriter and a long-time friend of his, Linda Ronstadt: Jimmy Webb (featuring Linda Ronstadt) - All I Know | | | | | | | | | | | Jimmy Webb (featuring Linda Ronstadt) - All I Know | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | From: he...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhlife is good! A bit too CW for my taste... : )
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan?
It's like a circus over here - send in the clowns. How can you believe that Fred Lenz was the last incarnation of Vishnu unless someone told you that or you read it in a book? Is it because Rama told you that he was Lord Vishnu? Apparently you read a Buddhist scripture and now you believe in Buddhas and that they are enlightened? Go figure. You're not even making any sense today! Is there any truth to your belief in Fred Lenz, Vishnu and Buddha? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Aha. FINALLY, JR is able to admit what he believes, and why. I'll riff on it below. From: jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:20 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan? Xeno, I'm a truth seeker. Based on what you say here, John, I would suggest that you are NOT a truth seeker. What you seek is someone TELLING YOU what is truth. That is why you rely on books from the past and what you were told by teachers like Maharishi. Non sequitur. There was a valid reason why the rishis and prophets of the past have written books like the Bible, BGita and Srimad Bhagavatam. IMO, they were conveying their realization of truth through their meditation and contemplation. THIS is what I have been trying to get you to admit, and to realize about yourself, John. You believe that certain books are true or truth for no other reason than that you were TOLD they are. Non sequitur. Similarly, you admit to a belief that truth can be based on the realization of truth through meditation and contemplation. Bzzt. Science tells us that NO SUCH THING EXISTS. Humans have a near-infinite ability to deceive themselves. We can't even be sure that people are reporting the truth when they give first-person testimony in court about things that they see in real life. Based on studies that have shown how easy it is to implant false memories or lead witnesses into changing their testimony, there have been serious discussions in the legal system about abandoning the entire concept of first-person testimony, because it cannot be relied upon. Non sequitur. Now look at what you believe. Given the fact that science tells us we cannot rely on the truth or accuracy of things we perceive in the real world with our senses, you're trying to tell us that we should believe in things we see only in our heads? Bzzt...does not compute. Yes, *of course* people can have visions. But they are NOT truth. They're just something you see -- or, more likely imagine -- in your head. So any of these seeings that form the basis of scriptures are -- according to science -- not to be believed. Non sequitur. The other assumption you seem to make is that when a person *claims* to have had a subjective experience that they interpret as enlightenment or holy revelation, we should believe them. Bzt. If spending a few years on Fairfield Life and having encountered bozos like Ravi, Jim, Robin and others should have taught you anything, it would be that people have a near-infinite ability to fool themselves (and others) about their supposed states of consciousness. What makes any of the so-called enlightened seers or authors of these scriptures you rely on any different? Why couldn't *they* have been fooling themselves just as much as the pretenders to enlightenment on FFL were able to? Non sequitur. Some stories in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, can be understood as a metaphor. But there is a message in that story in many levels that the reader and the seeker need to unravel and understand to appreciate its wisdom. Need to? Bzt. People who enjoy that sort of thing can read these made-up stories as metaphor if they'd like, and they can try to convince themselves and others that they have learned something from them. But need to? That's just religious fanaticism. No one needs to read any of these fairy tales to become wise. They can do that just by living, interacting with other human beings, and paying attention. Non sequitur. The basic essence of the message is the importance of human consciousness and its capacity to cognize the truth. Here is the point we differ on, John. Human consciousness does NOT have the ability to cognize truth. That is something that religious fanatics choose to believe because it makes them feel more important. But science tells us that no such ability exists. The message you cling to is a LIE. Non sequitur. This can be done with human reason and the element of faith. Without them, one cannot perceive the truth that the rishis and prophets were trying to convey. Do you even *know* that reason and faith are different things, and the polar opposite of one another? Faith has nothing whatsoever to do with truth. Non sequitur. As it says on the home page of the forum you
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
From: anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 5:44 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with different flavours of the experience due to the differences in physiological state, or is the result the experience of two different ground states due to the differences of physiological state? If the former, what is the nature of truth if it is not an identical experience, and if the latter, if there are two different truths, what does that say about truth? I honestly think that many folks on this forum are far less interested in finding truth than they are in asserting that the TM organization holds the copyright to the word. This whole thread, after all, was started because someone essentially claimed that the TMO had the right to define what pure consciousness is. Right? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some ofyour best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as aknock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and ownminds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thingas they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try todo with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved andPhysiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulnessby way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mindcomplex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditationevidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, thatglobal-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is goingon underneath.JaiGuruYou,-Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out tocheck the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rainlikely, mainly before 10am. Chanceof precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than atenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: QuotationJ. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymoreconflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax andbe still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become wholeand unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of ourthoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness anda goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in theworld. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of thisdeep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pureconsciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself.(Note that he is talking about thiswhile being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because Maharishi specifically said he was in Unity. And true, probably few or none ever got enlightened by him because he just popped in, and never really knew how it happened, but you are welcome to point out those whom Maharishi enlightened (that is, that are in unity, not CC). More comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Can
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
There is only one single state, but it has different aspects, perception depending on one's level of consciousness. The ultimate reality is pure consciousness. My position, and the position of most idealistic transcendentalists, is that we infer, from the fact of being conscious, that consciousness itself is the ultimate reality - because without consciousness, we would not exist. And we accept that inference is a valid means of knowledge. Thoughts and ideas, not being material objects, cannot be perceived; they can only be inferred. If consciousness means self-consciousness, then it cannot be identified by logic with the human body. This is the Hindu Advaita Vedanta and to some extent, the view of the Vijnana school of Tibetan Buddhism. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with different flavours of the experience due to the differences in physiological state, or is the result the experience of two different ground states due to the differences of physiological state? If the former, what is the nature of truth if it is not an identical experience, and if the latter, if there are two different truths, what does that say about truth? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try to do with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved and Physiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulness by way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mind complex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditation evidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, that global-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is going on underneath. JaiGuruYou, -Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out to check the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rain likely, mainly before 10am. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: Quotation J. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymore conflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax and be still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become whole and unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of our thoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness and a goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in the world. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of this deep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pure consciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself. (Note that he is talking about this while being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because
[FairfieldLife] Re: The Egotist
Both those quotes just made my day! Awesome! Once, i thought I made a mistake, but I was wrong.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
A bit too CW for my taste... : )
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
Listening to a new Mark Knopfler album is for me as close as I get to having a
religious ritual in my life. I think so much of the man's writing abilities,
his guitar skills, his musical taste, his compassion as a songwriter, and above
all his humility as a human being that whenever a new album comes out I lock
myself in my room and try to listen to the entire thing from start to finish,
without interruption.
And yet, in all of the years and for all of the albums for which I have
performed this ritual, I have never been able to make it all the way through.
Not once. I set out with that as my goal, but there is always one song that
stops me in my tracks and makes me play it over once or more times before I can
move on to the next songs.
On this album, that song is Wherever I Go, a lovely duet with Ruth Moody of
the Wailin' Jennys. It demanded to be heard five whole times before it would
allow me to move to the second CD of songs.
Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go
| |
| | | | | | | |
| Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go |
| |
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |
Maybe I'm bound to wander
From one place to the next
Heaven knows why
But in the wild blue yonder
Your star is fixed in my sky
Just another bar at a crossroads
So far from home
But that's alright
Whenever I'm going down a dark road
I don't feel alone in the night
There's a place in my heart
Though we're far apart
May you always know
No matter how long since I saw you
I'll keep a flame there for you
Wherever I go
They're looking to close up in here
They're pulling down the blinds
But they'll let you stay awhile
They're not going to mind
Now I've got to leave you, brother
So this round's mine
Here's looking at you, anyhow
You can go on and have another
They won't call time
I'm going to say my goodbyes now
There's a place in my heart
Though we're far apart
May you always know
No matter how long since I saw you
I'll keep a flame there for you
Wherever I go
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com A new double album from one of the best
songwriters in the world. Now I know what my cafe soundtrack will be today.
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/
More joy. First, a short film by Henrik Hansen:
Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen
| |
| | | | | | | |
| Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen |
|
|
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|
|
| |
Next, a track-by-track walkthrough by Mark:
Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track
| |
| | | | | | | |
| Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track |
|
|
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|
|
| |
Finally, the whole album, for those too cheap to buy it:
Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition]
| |
| | | | | | | |
| Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition] |
|
|
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|
|
| |
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Drive-By
Exactly. And wouldn't you SO get in the van? :-)
From: salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 8:12 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Drive-By
That's the funniest thing I've seen for a while!
--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
Alright, already.got it. Lots to check out here. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : Listening to a new Mark Knopfler album is for me as close as I get to having a religious ritual in my life. I think so much of the man's writing abilities, his guitar skills, his musical taste, his compassion as a songwriter, and above all his humility as a human being that whenever a new album comes out I lock myself in my room and try to listen to the entire thing from start to finish, without interruption. And yet, in all of the years and for all of the albums for which I have performed this ritual, I have never been able to make it all the way through. Not once. I set out with that as my goal, but there is always one song that stops me in my tracks and makes me play it over once or more times before I can move on to the next songs. On this album, that song is Wherever I Go, a lovely duet with Ruth Moody of the Wailin' Jennys. It demanded to be heard five whole times before it would allow me to move to the second CD of songs. Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk Preview by Yahoo Maybe I'm bound to wander From one place to the next Heaven knows why But in the wild blue yonder Your star is fixed in my sky Just another bar at a crossroads So far from home But that's alright Whenever I'm going down a dark road I don't feel alone in the night There's a place in my heart Though we're far apart May you always know No matter how long since I saw you I'll keep a flame there for you Wherever I go They're looking to close up in here They're pulling down the blinds But they'll let you stay awhile They're not going to mind Now I've got to leave you, brother So this round's mine Here's looking at you, anyhow You can go on and have another They won't call time I'm going to say my goodbyes now There's a place in my heart Though we're far apart May you always know No matter how long since I saw you I'll keep a flame there for you Wherever I go From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com A new double album from one of the best songwriters in the world. Now I know what my cafe soundtrack will be today. http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/ http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/ More joy. First, a short film by Henrik Hansen: Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 Preview by Yahoo Next, a track-by-track walkthrough by Mark: Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 Preview by Yahoo Finally, the whole album, for those too cheap to buy it: Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
Comment from Youtube: This is beautiful, and it is the one last gift to us from Linda. Linda Ronstadt retired from professional singing in 2009 due to her vocal struggles with early Parkinsons Disease. Jimmy personally requested this favor from Linda to sing this Duet with him, It was only through their long friendship that Linda agreed to sing this with her old friend Jimmy before fully losing her ability to sing professionally. It might be the last recording from Linda Ronstadt thanks to Jimmy Webb. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : You probably won't like this one, either. :-) But for fans of high mountain harmony, this is a true gem, such that I have to pass it along, just in case there is someone here who might appreciate it. It's a little-known version of a song made famous by Art Garfunkel, but sung here by the songwriter and a long-time friend of his, Linda Ronstadt: Jimmy Webb (featuring Linda Ronstadt) - All I Know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCruuS_qps8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCruuS_qps8 Jimmy Webb (featuring Linda Ronstadt) - All I Know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCruuS_qps8 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCruuS_qps8 Preview by Yahoo From: hepa7@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhlife is good! A bit too CW for my taste... : )
[FairfieldLife] Re: Drive-By
That's the funniest thing I've seen for a while! --In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote :
[FairfieldLife] Drive-By
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with different flavours of the experience due to the differences in physiological state, or is the result the experience of two different ground states due to the differences of physiological state? If the former, what is the nature of truth if it is not an identical experience, and if the latter, if there are two different truths, what does that say about truth? There could be no human experience-able ground state without us being the ground state. And this is in fact what Marshy claimed, which is a long way from Lawson's claim that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. If the state of pure consciousness was some sort of ground state then you'd expect it to be the same when accessed via different types of meditation etc. This it clearly is not, and I'm talking from experience. So obviously it's a rare neurological state and not anything to do with physics. What I think happened is this: we have a fascinating experience via meditation that gives us the impression that we are unbounded and infinite in some fundamental way. So a huge mythos has evolved around these states of mind but it's the meditational trip-outs that came first. We recognise the description of the experience and we have no way of gainsaying the teacher due to his/her presumed affinity with this stuff and get drawn in further until we can't separate the two things. If we were to discover meditation tomorrow and start the nomenclature all over again would we still go for a unified field/pure consciousness/vedic infinity kind of approach? I think not. The emphasis would be mostly on what use it might possibly have, and that would be based on evidence and not the wild claims of the reesh. It would be a good project as we could disabuse people of the idea that it's something to do with physics from the get-go and thus remove a lot of tricksy cash cows from organisations like the TMO and also stop a lot of people spending all their lives sitting in domes waiting to fly and create a non-existent peace-field when they could be doing something they might be more proud of in later life. Would it be as much fun though? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try to do with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved and Physiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulness by way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mind complex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditation evidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, that global-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is going on underneath. JaiGuruYou, -Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out to check the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rain likely, mainly before 10am. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: Quotation J. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymore conflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax and be still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become whole and unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of our thoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness and a goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in the world. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of this deep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pure consciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Kalama Sutra, a Buddhist text
Excellent. See the post I just made to JR.
From: yifux...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 1:55 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Kalama Sutra, a Buddhist text
Kālāma Sūtra - [from YouTube]
Rely not on the teacher, but on the teaching.
Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the spirit of the words.
Rely not on theory, but on experience.
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many
generations.
Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
But after observation and analysis,
when you find that anything agrees with reason
and is conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all,
then accept it and live up to it ~
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try to do with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved and Physiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulness by way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mind complex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditation evidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, that global-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is going on underneath. JaiGuruYou, -Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out to check the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rain likely, mainly before 10am. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: Quotation J. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymore conflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax and be still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become whole and unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of our thoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness and a goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in the world. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of this deep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pure consciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself. (Note that he is talking about this while being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because Maharishi specifically said he was in Unity. And true, probably few or none ever got enlightened by him because he just popped in, and never really knew how it happened, but you are welcome to point out those whom Maharishi enlightened (that is, that are in unity, not CC). More comments below. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Can you point me to contemporary mindfulness essays or research on contemporary mindfulness practitioners where they describe a situation where there is no thought, no mantra, no awareness of the outside world, no awareness of the body, no emotion, no intuition, no memory, no mind content of any kind, and yet the meditator is still somehow awake? Also, mindfulness practices tend to disrupt the sense of self, as has been reported in quite a few modern studies on practitioners. In fact, researchers note that mind-wandering simply does not happen in long-term practitioners and count this a good thing: they note quite happily, that mindfulness reduces activity and interactions between the parts of the brain thought to be responsible for sense of self. TM, on the other hand, is taught in terms of allowing the mind to wander, and physiological research shows that the same activity and interactions that mindfulness reduces, TM enhances. Interestingly enough, this review article, Towards a neuroscience of mind-wandering (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3112331/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3112331/) notes specifically that mind-wandering is essential for sense of self according to modern neuroscience theories, so to claim that mindfulness leads to the same kind of enlightenment as TM, where sense-of-self is perceived as the basis of all reality, is kinda odd: mindfulness disrupts the very foundation of such a perspective. Finally, citing that Scientific America citing a wikipedia page is hilarious (the text 'unknown/unclear/uncertain or not well-established' appears nowhere in the original article, even
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
I wouldn't say no thought = no thinker nor would I say the opposite... How could you know? However, even if there's no way to examine the non-existent internal landscape of someone while in the PC state, we can look at the physiological correlates, and they are quire interesting. Analysis of EEG implies that the resting state networks, especially the default mode network, is quite active, while other parts of the brain are not as active. Further, the mind-wanderign mode and PC seem to be very related, and the activity of the parts of the brain most associated with sense-of-self seem to be very active during PC. And, outside of meditation, as the EEG starts to become more like that found during PC, we find that sense-of-self becomes stronger, but not associated with any thing. All of this seems to support the traditional view that PC, AKA _samadhi_, is the state where observer, observed and process of observation have merged, leaving only the quality of observer, by Itself. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote : Thanks for posting this sparaig. This is one of my hobby horses. Pure consciousness is precisely awareness without any thought, image or sensation. And no thought = no thinker. Robert K C Forman (a TM practitioner) has written on this topic, including The Problem of Pure Consciousness: Mysticism and Philosophy and (a better choice) Mysticism, Mind, Consciousness. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : Rolls eyes. You can force silence by distracting the mind and diverting resources away from the verbal centers or you can allow the mind to become more calm until silence is everywhere. Pure consciousness during TM is no mantra, no thought, no body awareness, no intuition, no emotion, no memory, no sensory awareness of any kind, not just no verbal thoughts. It occurs spontaneously, not at beck and call, and is accompanies by higher levels of alpha coherence in the frontal lobes, along with increased skin resistance, abrupt decrease i heart rate as well as an apparent cessation of breathing or at least abrupt drop in breath rate. It's hard to miss when you hook someone up to the right equipment, but what they found when the examined the woman who most consistently showed these signs, while using the most sophisticated eqiupment, was that she didn't notice the existence of the state, only the transition *out of* the state. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : No mantra-No thought Sounds the same. It is a correct experience of the practice of TM (second night checking) and evidently Mindfulness too Pure Awareness. # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : What they call pure awareness is not what TMers call pure awareness. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero@... wrote : [Scientific American article by Matthieu Ricard, Antoine Lutz, and Richard J. Davidson, Nov. 2014, p. 43] In our Wisconsin lab, we have studied experienced practioners while they performed an advanced form of mindfulness meditation called open presence. In open presence, sometimes called pure awareness, the mind is calm and relaxed, not focused on anything in particular yet vividly clear, free from excitation or dullness. The meditator observes and is open to experience without making any attempt to interpret, change, reject or ignore painful sensation ...[the experimenters somehow induced some pain to experienced meditators, then compared the results to novices.] .We found that the intensity o0f the pain was not reduced in meditators, but it bothered them less than it did members of a control group. . Compared with novices, expert meditators' brain activity diminished in anxiety related regions - the insular cortex and the amygdala - in the period preceding the painful stimulus. . Other tests in our lab have shown that meditation training increases one's ability to better control and buffer basic physiological responses - inflammation or levels of a stress hormone - to a socially stressful task such as giving a public speech or doing mental arithmetic in front of a harsh jury. . .
Re: [FairfieldLife] The Egotist
I never travel without my diary. One should always have something sensational
to read in the train.
- Oscar Wilde
From: s3raph...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 4:40 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] The Egotist
Most people hate egotists.
They remind them of themselves.
I love egotists.
They remind me of me.
(Raymond M Smullyan)
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Living Communally: Wozniak: Future of AI is Scary
Yes, within a healthy eco-system of an economic system.. Though as trend-line with modern organizational development/evolution in preserving balance of powers it seems that we are moving beyond Divine Rights of Kings, or Chieftains, Cardinals, Rajas or CEO's given the nature of transparency and quick communications in a digital post-modern secular world. Locally I keep advising them it is in their own interests, both internally for coalescing what is left of our own dwindling membership and for defending against ongoing outside attack that should destroy us as a community, now for simple survival to be frankly transparent going forward. That is simply part of leadership now as we enter the digital communications era. Where as “Ethics is judged as a leading economic indicator” of people and groups in the new world then frankly put the tax records, balance sheets and income statements of everything on the webpages to be easily linked to. That just publishing some glossy pie-charts is not good enough, they smell too much of fish. The old-guard though at the top who have been there for decades are yet frightened of too much transparency, their firm feeling that negative people will use any and everything out of context working against the work of the movement and just fabricate lies for their own destructive ends. There is some truth to that. Evidently there are people working quite methodically against the TM community and its very survival or existence. But in balance, transparency in general counter-attack seems to be the currency of the nature of the digital new-world. Survival evidently is also about adaptability.. https://sites.google.com/site/mumcongress/welcome/home/organizational-and-social-transformation/models/fundamentals-of-progress https://sites.google.com/site/mumcongress/welcome/home/organizational-and-social-transformation/models/fundamentals-of-progress What right does a community have to protect itself and its survival? In a meditating community that is Fairfield, Iowa, JaiGuruYou # ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jason_green2@... wrote : You have a point. My point is it's good to have a healthy eco-system, of the economic system. A system that has diversity of approaches will be more stable in the long run. I have often noticed that any organisation or country, it's success often depends on the vision of the top-man, ie the leader. Could it be a law of nature? The key word here is transparency. It eliminates mismanagement, brings in professionalism. --- dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Hy-Vee Foods, Employee Owned is another good life-cycle example of this potential within cooperative living if not actively looked out for by a level of transparency and civil society. Employee-owned with a few people at the top management cutting hours and benefits of their working not-quite full-time employees to pay profits for the salaries of boards and managers on top. As one full-time employee there observed after work hours were cut to less than full time, 'Employee Owned' by five people at the top.. Thanks, co-ops sound very ideal towards a sharing. Though sounds further in time a lot like any organizations where things starts off with a membership with one-person-one-vote then you get an administrative board elected. And it becomes an oligarchy of sorts. Seems co-ops often just go the route of corporations anyway. ..Good for a few people at the top once it gets going. Sort of like the Standing Committee over communist China. Putin's Oligarchy. Or, the TM movement now. Thanks, co-ops sound very ideal towards a sharing. Though sounds further in time a lot like any organizations where things starts off with a membership with one-person-one-vote then you get an administrative board elected. And it becomes an oligarchy of sorts. Like what happened with the New Pioneer Food Coop in Iowa City. Now a few high-paid administrator/store-managers working at the board level over the membership, high priced food, and a lot of lowly-paid working-poor employees to pay for the administrator managers. Same thing for this Heartland 'Cooperative' that just built this massive multi-million dollar facility for the simple business of unloading and re-loading grain on to a monopoly-owned rail-line here with slim chance of pay-back. Small group of manager-class running it. Pretty evidently a project that an administrative-team put together for itself aside from the membership understanding the economics of it so far as pay-back. The membership proly would have been better off with that capital returned in dividend. But of course there is no job in that for the manager-class. Seems co-ops often just go the route of corporations anyway. ..Good for a few people at the top once it gets going. Sort of like the Standing Committee over communist China. Putin's Oligarchy. Or, the TM movement now.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan?
Aha. FINALLY, JR is able to admit what he believes, and why. I'll riff on it below. From: jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:20 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Could it be...Satan? Xeno, I'm a truth seeker. Based on what you say here, John, I would suggest that you are NOT a truth seeker. What you seek is someone TELLING YOU what is truth. That is why you rely on books from the past and what you were told by teachers like Maharishi. There was a valid reason why the rishis and prophets of the past have written books like the Bible, BGita and Srimad Bhagavatam. IMO, they were conveying their realization of truth through their meditation and contemplation. THIS is what I have been trying to get you to admit, and to realize about yourself, John. You believe that certain books are true or truth for no other reason than that you were TOLD they are. Similarly, you admit to a belief that truth can be based on the realization of truth through meditation and contemplation. Bzzt. Science tells us that NO SUCH THING EXISTS. Humans have a near-infinite ability to deceive themselves. We can't even be sure that people are reporting the truth when they give first-person testimony in court about things that they see in real life. Based on studies that have shown how easy it is to implant false memories or lead witnesses into changing their testimony, there have been serious discussions in the legal system about abandoning the entire concept of first-person testimony, because it cannot be relied upon. Now look at what you believe. Given the fact that science tells us we cannot rely on the truth or accuracy of things we perceive in the real world with our senses, you're trying to tell us that we should believe in things we see only in our heads? Bzzt...does not compute. Yes, *of course* people can have visions. But they are NOT truth. They're just something you see -- or, more likely imagine -- in your head. So any of these seeings that form the basis of scriptures are -- according to science -- not to be believed. The other assumption you seem to make is that when a person *claims* to have had a subjective experience that they interpret as enlightenment or holy revelation, we should believe them. Bzt. If spending a few years on Fairfield Life and having encountered bozos like Ravi, Jim, Robin and others should have taught you anything, it would be that people have a near-infinite ability to fool themselves (and others) about their supposed states of consciousness. What makes any of the so-called enlightened seers or authors of these scriptures you rely on any different? Why couldn't *they* have been fooling themselves just as much as the pretenders to enlightenment on FFL were able to? Some stories in the Bible, like the Garden of Eden story, can be understood as a metaphor. But there is a message in that story in many levels that the reader and the seeker need to unravel and understand to appreciate its wisdom. Need to? Bzt. People who enjoy that sort of thing can read these made-up stories as metaphor if they'd like, and they can try to convince themselves and others that they have learned something from them. But need to? That's just religious fanaticism. No one needs to read any of these fairy tales to become wise. They can do that just by living, interacting with other human beings, and paying attention. The basic essence of the message is the importance of human consciousness and its capacity to cognize the truth. Here is the point we differ on, John. Human consciousness does NOT have the ability to cognize truth. That is something that religious fanatics choose to believe because it makes them feel more important. But science tells us that no such ability exists. The message you cling to is a LIE. This can be done with human reason and the element of faith. Without them, one cannot perceive the truth that the rishis and prophets were trying to convey. Do you even *know* that reason and faith are different things, and the polar opposite of one another? Faith has nothing whatsoever to do with truth. As it says on the home page of the forum you are writing to: What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the wish to find out, which is the exact opposite. ~ Bertrand Russell ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : JR might be a literalist. I certainly am not. I have encountered Christian groups that interpret scripture metaphorically and speak of consciousness rather than entities such as Moses or Jesus who are going to save your ass if you believe in them. Some people just seem to be unable to interpret things metaphorically. Perhaps they could try writing poetry. To me a spiritual system is a collection of carefully crafted lies that will, if practised properly, eventually allow you
[FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
A new double album from one of the best songwriters in the world. Now I know what my cafe soundtrack will be today. http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
From: TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2015 11:36 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Ahhlife is good! A new double album from one of the best songwriters in the world. Now I know what my cafe soundtrack will be today. http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/ More joy. First, a short film by Henrik Hansen: Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen | | | | | | | | | | | Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | Next, a track-by-track walkthrough by Mark: Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track | | | | | | | | | | | Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | Finally, the whole album, for those too cheap to buy it: Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition] | | | | | | | | | | | Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition] | | | | View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | |
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
I noticed you mentioned on The Peak that the Harvard Exit closed. I used to see films there in the 1970s as well as at the other art houses. I almost never saw a Hollywood film back then unless it was shot in Seattle. Of course art houses are going the way of the dodo since most of the distributors like Mark Cuban's Magnolia Films make them available streaming. On 03/29/2015 10:58 AM, emily.ma...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote: Alright, already.got it. Lots to check out here. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote : */Listening to a new Mark Knopfler album is for me as close as I get to having a religious ritual in my life. I think so much of the man's writing abilities, his guitar skills, his musical taste, his compassion as a songwriter, and above all his humility as a human being that whenever a new album comes out I lock myself in my room and try to listen to the entire thing from start to finish, without interruption. /* */ /* */And yet, in all of the years and for all of the albums for which I have performed this ritual, I have never been able to make it all the way through. Not once. I set out with that as my goal, but there is always one song that stops me in my tracks and makes me play it over once or more times before I can move on to the next songs. /* */ /* */On this album, that song is Wherever I Go, a lovely duet with Ruth Moody of the Wailin' Jennys. It demanded to be heard five whole times before it would allow me to move to the second CD of songs. /* */Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk/* */ /* image https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk Preview by Yahoo */Maybe I'm bound to wander From one place to the next Heaven knows why But in the wild blue yonder Your star is fixed in my sky Just another bar at a crossroads So far from home But that's alright Whenever I'm going down a dark road I don't feel alone in the night There's a place in my heart Though we're far apart May you always know No matter how long since I saw you I'll keep a flame there for you Wherever I go They're looking to close up in here They're pulling down the blinds But they'll let you stay awhile They're not going to mind Now I've got to leave you, brother So this round's mine Here's looking at you, anyhow You can go on and have another They won't call time I'm going to say my goodbyes now/* */ /* */There's a place in my heart Though we're far apart May you always know No matter how long since I saw you I'll keep a flame there for you Wherever I go/* *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com *** * *From:* TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com */A new double album from one of the best songwriters in the world. Now I know what my cafe soundtrack will be today. /* */ /* */http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps//* */More joy. First, a short film by Henrik Hansen:/* */ /* */Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4/* */ /* image https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 Preview by Yahoo */ /* */Next, a track-by-track walkthrough by Mark:/* */ /* */Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8/* */ /* image https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 Preview by Yahoo */ /* */Finally, the whole album, for those too cheap to buy it:/* */ /* */Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI/* */ /* image https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI Mark Knopfler-Tracker 2015 Full Album[ Deluxe Edition] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jMxMa2-ZjI Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Here is Maharishi's take on teh scientific study of meditation. Note that he is talking about human consciousness here, not the ground state of natural law, aka brahman. That is referred to as that wholeness of life which is present everywhere. Every experience has its level of physiology, and so unbounded awareness has its own level of physiology which can be measured. Every aspect of life is integrated and connected with every other phase. When we talk of scientific measurements, it does not take away from the spiritual experience. We are not responsible for those times when spiritual experience was thought of as metaphysical. Everything is physical. Consciousness is the product of the functioning of the brain. Talking of scientific measurements is no damage to that wholeness of life which is present everywhere and which begins to be lived when the physiology is taking on a particular form. This is our understanding about spirituality: it is not on the level of faith --it is on the level of blood and bone and flesh and activity. It is measurable. -Maharishi Mahesh Yogi And so, you can assert that pure awareness, ala open monitoring is the same as pure awareness ala TM, is the same thing, but that isn't supportable by the words that clarify what pure awareness means in the context of the original passage. The question of whether or not mindfulness leads to the same place as TM isn't even being addressed here, as my point was simply that the phrase pure awareness is being used in a different way than when TMers use it as a synonym for samadhi. as I said originally: What they call pure awareness is not what TMers call pure awareness. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with different flavours of the experience due to the differences in physiological state, or is the result the experience of two different ground states due to the differences of physiological state? If the former, what is the nature of truth if it is not an identical experience, and if the latter, if there are two different truths, what does that say about truth? There could be no human experience-able ground state without us being the ground state. And this is in fact what Marshy claimed, which is a long way from Lawson's claim that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. If the state of pure consciousness was some sort of ground state then you'd expect it to be the same when accessed via different types of meditation etc. This it clearly is not, and I'm talking from experience. So obviously it's a rare neurological state and not anything to do with physics. What I think happened is this: we have a fascinating experience via meditation that gives us the impression that we are unbounded and infinite in some fundamental way. So a huge mythos has evolved around these states of mind but it's the meditational trip-outs that came first. We recognise the description of the experience and we have no way of gainsaying the teacher due to his/her presumed affinity with this stuff and get drawn in further until we can't separate the two things. If we were to discover meditation tomorrow and start the nomenclature all over again would we still go for a unified field/pure consciousness/vedic infinity kind of approach? I think not. The emphasis would be mostly on what use it might possibly have, and that would be based on evidence and not the wild claims of the reesh. It would be a good project as we could disabuse people of the idea that it's something to do with physics from the get-go and thus remove a lot of tricksy cash cows from organisations like the TMO and also stop a lot of people spending all their lives sitting in domes waiting to fly and create a non-existent peace-field when they could be doing something they might be more proud of in later life. Would it be as much fun though?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
I don't know where the debate started, but my point was that two different groups are using the same two words in different ways: TMers equote pure awarenessBack https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages with pure consciousness with transcendental consciousness with samadhi, which is a state devoid of any perception The passage on mindfulness equoted pure awareness to an advanced form of mindfulness called open monitoring where one is equally receptive to all stimuli. Devoid of stimuli is not eqivalent to equally receptive to all stimuli except in the trivial sense that if there are zero stimuli, that one is equally receptive to all of them. However, the phrase clarifying what pure awareness means in the context of open monitoring explicitly refers to perception of pain, so pure awareness ala open monitoring is NOT a state devoid of any perception. That was my only point: two different groups are using the same two-word phrase to describe different situations. Which group is using the words correctly is a point that I never raised: I merely pointed out that two different groups are saying pure awareness and the meaning is quite different: devoid of any perception as compared to open to experience without making any attempt to interpret, change, reject or ignore painful sensation. And the implication for me is that once you mistake the label for what is being talked about, confusion follows. Nashville, Florida is NOT Nashville, Tennessee, and if you seek the Grand Ole Opry in the former, you're going to be looking for a ticket seller to a concert for a very long time indeed. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote I honestly think that many folks on this forum are far less interested in finding truth than they are in asserting that the TM organization holds the copyright to the word. This whole thread, after all, was started because someone essentially claimed that the TMO had the right to define what pure consciousness is. Right? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L [...] ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You can only measure what y ou have the equipment to measure. However, it's a truism that just because two things can be described teh same way at one level, doesn't mean that they are identifical. My favorite example is what happened to some British friends many decades ago... They got a sweetheart travel package to visit Nashville. Nashville, Florida, that is. Just because you can describe a city as Nashville doesn't mean it is the Nashville you were hoping to visit. Unfortunately, they actually got on the plane and landed before they discovered their mistake. The moral is: a label, pure awareness, that is described as being without thought, might not be referring to the same thing between two different meditation traditions. A two-word phrase may not provide you enough info to make a rationale choice any more than just knowing the name of the city without knowing the state it is in is enough to make rationale travel plans. L
Re: [FairfieldLife] Ahhhhhh....life is good!
Yes, I'm starting to feel dated. The Harvard Exit had real place value. Glad it was there for so long. My kids and I saw documentary Banksy there some years ago now - they loved the movie and the location - all the cherry trees were in bloom around that corner blowing blossoms. I am conceding within that I will have to go the way of the general populace if I want to do and see what I want to do and see. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... wrote : I noticed you mentioned on The Peak that the Harvard Exit closed. I used to see films there in the 1970s as well as at the other art houses. I almost never saw a Hollywood film back then unless it was shot in Seattle. Of course art houses are going the way of the dodo since most of the distributors like Mark Cuban's Magnolia Films make them available streaming. On 03/29/2015 10:58 AM, emily.mae50@... mailto:emily.mae50@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: Alright, already.got it. Lots to check out here. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@... wrote : Listening to a new Mark Knopfler album is for me as close as I get to having a religious ritual in my life. I think so much of the man's writing abilities, his guitar skills, his musical taste, his compassion as a songwriter, and above all his humility as a human being that whenever a new album comes out I lock myself in my room and try to listen to the entire thing from start to finish, without interruption. And yet, in all of the years and for all of the albums for which I have performed this ritual, I have never been able to make it all the way through. Not once. I set out with that as my goal, but there is always one song that stops me in my tracks and makes me play it over once or more times before I can move on to the next songs. On this album, that song is Wherever I Go, a lovely duet with Ruth Moody of the Wailin' Jennys. It demanded to be heard five whole times before it would allow me to move to the second CD of songs. Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDuAPhHBbuk; class=ygrps-yiv-805032839ygrps-yiv-2108347099link-enhancr-card-urlWrapper ygrps-yiv-805032839ygrps-yiv-2108347099link-enhancr-element Mark Knopfler featuring Ruth Moody - Wherever I Go View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo Maybe I'm bound to wander From one place to the next Heaven knows why But in the wild blue yonder Your star is fixed in my sky Just another bar at a crossroads So far from home But that's alright Whenever I'm going down a dark road I don't feel alone in the night There's a place in my heart Though we're far apart May you always know No matter how long since I saw you I'll keep a flame there for you Wherever I go They're looking to close up in here They're pulling down the blinds But they'll let you stay awhile They're not going to mind Now I've got to leave you, brother So this round's mine Here's looking at you, anyhow You can go on and have another They won't call time I'm going to say my goodbyes now There's a place in my heart Though we're far apart May you always know No matter how long since I saw you I'll keep a flame there for you Wherever I go From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com From: TurquoiseBee turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife] FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com A new double album from one of the best songwriters in the world. Now I know what my cafe soundtrack will be today. http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/ http://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/mark_knopfler_this_getting_older_stuff_ain%E2%80%99t_for_wimps/ More joy. First, a short film by Henrik Hansen: Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7-cpV_H_z4 Mark Knopfler - Tracker - A Film By Henrik Hansen View on www.youtube.com Preview by Yahoo Next, a track-by-track walkthrough by Mark: Mark Knopfler - Tracker – A Track by Track https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpNV5ECePg8 (Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
This might be Maharishi's distinction between little-t transcending, where the mind is diverted from thinking the mantra and back on thoughts even though pure consciousness never occured, vs Big-T Transcending, aka pure consciousness aka pure awareness, where all perception of any kind has ceased, leaving the brain in an alert mode without any object of attention to be alert about. There's a switch between the inward and outward strokes of meditation, with no object-less situation between. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, richard@... wrote : According to Comans, samadhi has two stages: samprajana samadhi - enstasis where there is still object-consciousness; and, nirvikalpasamadhi - where there is no longer any object-consciousness. The purpose of yogic meditation is to *isolate* bodily fluctuations and pass into samprajana samadhi, hence to total isolation of mental fluctuations and then to pass into nirvakalpasamadhi where the Self is not hidden by external conditions of the body or the mind (citta). 'The question of the importance of Samadhi in modern and classical Advaita Vedanta' by Michael Comans http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/comans.htm http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/comans.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I don't know where the debate started, but my point was that two different groups are using the same two words in different ways: TMers equote pure awarenessBack https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages with pure consciousness with transcendental consciousness with samadhi, which is a state devoid of any perception The passage on mindfulness equoted pure awareness to an advanced form of mindfulness called open monitoring where one is equally receptive to all stimuli. Devoid of stimuli is not eqivalent to equally receptive to all stimuli except in the trivial sense that if there are zero stimuli, that one is equally receptive to all of them. However, the phrase clarifying what pure awareness means in the context of open monitoring explicitly refers to perception of pain, so pure awareness ala open monitoring is NOT a state devoid of any perception. That was my only point: two different groups are using the same two-word phrase to describe different situations. Which group is using the words correctly is a point that I never raised: I merely pointed out that two different groups are saying pure awareness and the meaning is quite different: devoid of any perception as compared to open to experience without making any attempt to interpret, change, reject or ignore painful sensation. And the implication for me is that once you mistake the label for what is being talked about, confusion follows. Nashville, Florida is NOT Nashville, Tennessee, and if you seek the Grand Ole Opry in the former, you're going to be looking for a ticket seller to a concert for a very long time indeed. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote I honestly think that many folks on this forum are far less interested in finding truth than they are in asserting that the TM organization holds the copyright to the word. This whole thread, after all, was started because someone essentially claimed that the TMO had the right to define what pure consciousness is. Right? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L [...] ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You can only measure what y ou have the equipment to measure. However, it's a truism that just because two things can be described teh same way at one level, doesn't mean that they are identifical. My favorite example is what happened to some British friends many decades ago... They got a sweetheart travel package to visit Nashville. Nashville, Florida, that is. Just because you can describe a city as Nashville doesn't mean it is the Nashville you were hoping to visit. Unfortunately, they actually got on the plane and landed before they discovered their mistake. The moral is: a label, pure awareness, that is described as being without thought, might not be referring to the same thing between two different meditation traditions. A two-word phrase may not provide you enough info to make a rationale choice any more than just knowing the name of the city without knowing the state it is in is enough
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
According to Comans, samadhi has two stages: samprajana samadhi - enstasis where there is still object-consciousness; and, nirvikalpasamadhi - where there is no longer any object-consciousness. The purpose of yogic meditation is to *isolate* bodily fluctuations and pass into samprajana samadhi, hence to total isolation of mental fluctuations and then to pass into nirvakalpasamadhi where the Self is not hidden by external conditions of the body or the mind (citta). 'The question of the importance of Samadhi in modern and classical Advaita Vedanta' by Michael Comans http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/comans.htm http://buddhism.lib.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/comans.htm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : I don't know where the debate started, but my point was that two different groups are using the same two words in different ways: TMers equote pure awarenessBack https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/FairfieldLife/conversations/messages with pure consciousness with transcendental consciousness with samadhi, which is a state devoid of any perception The passage on mindfulness equoted pure awareness to an advanced form of mindfulness called open monitoring where one is equally receptive to all stimuli. Devoid of stimuli is not eqivalent to equally receptive to all stimuli except in the trivial sense that if there are zero stimuli, that one is equally receptive to all of them. However, the phrase clarifying what pure awareness means in the context of open monitoring explicitly refers to perception of pain, so pure awareness ala open monitoring is NOT a state devoid of any perception. That was my only point: two different groups are using the same two-word phrase to describe different situations. Which group is using the words correctly is a point that I never raised: I merely pointed out that two different groups are saying pure awareness and the meaning is quite different: devoid of any perception as compared to open to experience without making any attempt to interpret, change, reject or ignore painful sensation. And the implication for me is that once you mistake the label for what is being talked about, confusion follows. Nashville, Florida is NOT Nashville, Tennessee, and if you seek the Grand Ole Opry in the former, you're going to be looking for a ticket seller to a concert for a very long time indeed. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote I honestly think that many folks on this forum are far less interested in finding truth than they are in asserting that the TM organization holds the copyright to the word. This whole thread, after all, was started because someone essentially claimed that the TMO had the right to define what pure consciousness is. Right? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L [...] ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : You can only measure what y ou have the equipment to measure. However, it's a truism that just because two things can be described teh same way at one level, doesn't mean that they are identifical. My favorite example is what happened to some British friends many decades ago... They got a sweetheart travel package to visit Nashville. Nashville, Florida, that is. Just because you can describe a city as Nashville doesn't mean it is the Nashville you were hoping to visit. Unfortunately, they actually got on the plane and landed before they discovered their mistake. The moral is: a label, pure awareness, that is described as being without thought, might not be referring to the same thing between two different meditation traditions. A two-word phrase may not provide you enough info to make a rationale choice any more than just knowing the name of the city without knowing the state it is in is enough to make rationale travel plans. L
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
According to what I've read, there are two truths - there is relative truth and there is absolute truth. The Advaita Vedanta idea of two levels of truth (Sanskrit: satya) is similar to the Buddhist doctrine of the two truths (Tibetan: bden-pa gnyis). In Indian Buddhism, there is a relative or commonsensical truth, and an absolute or ultimate truth. In Tibetan Buddhism, the ultimate truth is synonymous with emptiness. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : Here is a question: If we assume there is a human experience-able ground state to the universe (i.e., enlightenment), and different meditation systems claim this can be experienced, is the result the experience of the same ground state with different flavours of the experience due to the differences in physiological state, or is the result the experience of two different ground states due to the differences of physiological state? If the former, what is the nature of truth if it is not an identical experience, and if the latter, if there are two different truths, what does that say about truth? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, LEnglish5@... wrote : We were debating? Hmmm. My argument: TM leads to a different style of physiological functioning than mindfulness does, and so, to claim that they are spiritually identical doesn't make sense, if you by Maharishi's theory that spirituality is based on the physical functioning of the nervous system. Anartaxius' argument: No it doesn't, and research isn't good enough to show differences, and even if they DO show differences, it doesn't matter. So there. L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote : Anartaxius, really great quotes for this debate. This is some of your best writing here in style: clear, precise and shortly said as a knock-out punch delivered. Thanks, yes their assumptions and own minds clearly are a problem these spock-like guys have for this thing as they try in method to do the big put-down of all other meditations, other than TM. ..by verbal mental reductionism. An irony in this whole thing though that they try to do with co-opting meditation is that their TM-sidhis, the TM-Ved and Physiology practice, and several of the advanced TM-techniques are mindfulness by way nature in practice anyway. In the heart of the body-mind complex of it all, what is going on in cultivated spiritual meditation evidently is a lot more than alpha-global-coherence, that global-alpha-coherence may even have little to do with what is going on underneath. JaiGuruYou, -Buck, sitting in pure-awareness meditation prior to going out to check the sheep and do chores. Clover and rye are sown ready for spring rains. Life in the body. Rain likely, mainly before 10am. Chance of precipitation is 70%. New precipitation amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible. anartaxius@... writes: Quotation J. Krishnamurti | (no date) When we stop fighting with ourselves, we aren't creating anymore conflict in our mind. Then our mind can for the first time relax and be still. Then for the first time our consciousness can become whole and unfragmented. Then total attention can be given to all of our thoughts and feelings. And then there will be found a gentleness and a goodness in us that can embrace all that is been given in the world. Then a deep love for everything will be the result of this deep attention. For this total attention, this soft and pure consciousness that we are, is nothing but love itself. (Note that he is talking about this while being awake and in activity) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : I was quoting comments on research to indicate that relying on research with the present level of quality is a fool's game. You are making the assumption that 'pure consciousness' is a specific meditative state instead of the ground of experience which includes what TM calls 'the relative' and this includes CC where pure consciousness is coincident with active experience, and Unity where the objects of experience are known as 'pure consciousness'. Whether you say the self expands to Self (TM) or whether you say the self vanishes and is replaced by the totality (mindfulness) makes no difference as they are the same thing expressed from opposite points of view. The individual sense of ego gets subsumed by a larger quality of experience, and it really matters not what it is called, because there is not real definition for it that does not imply limitation by verbal mental reductionism. I quoted Krishnamurti because Maharishi specifically said he was in Unity. And true, probably few or none ever got enlightened by him because he just popped in, and never really knew how it happened, but you are welcome to point out those whom Maharishi enlightened (that is, that are in unity, not CC). More comments below. ---In
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Lots of people enjoy piling onto Maharishi about hopping like a frog being the first stage of Yogic Flying, with a latter stage being levitation, but as I pointed out, the _Shiva Samhita_ describes levitation as coming in various stages, including moving along the ground as a frog jumps (around verse 45ish I think) so this isn't something MMY made up. As well, when Herbert Benson wanted to investigate paranormal claims about meditation, he asked the Dalai Lama about it and was sent to a remote region of Tibet as he describes in his book: Timeless Healing by Herbert Benson https://books.google.com/books?id=jpLwDJppxqQCpg=PA166lpg=PA166dq=%22relaxation+response%22+levitationsource=blots=Yq4zV4heN7sig=50UtshUT0ja6FxxUL-D3zekXarchl=ensa=Xei=Gmr_VLCLC8nuoASAyYHQBQved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepageq=%22relaxation%20response%22%20levitationf=false https://books.google.com/books?id=jpLwDJppxqQCamp;pg=PA166amp;lpg=PA166amp;dq=%22relaxation+response%22+levitationamp;source=blamp;ots=Yq4zV4heN7amp;sig=50UtshUT0ja6FxxUL-D3zekXarcamp;hl=enamp;sa=Xamp;ei=Gmr_VLCLC8nuoASAyYHQBQamp;ved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepageamp;q=%22relaxation%20response%22%20levitationamp;f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=jpLwDJppxqQCamp;pg=PA166amp;lpg=PA166amp;dq=%22relaxation+response%22+levitationamp;source=blamp;ots=Yq4zV4heN7amp;sig=50UtshUT0ja6FxxUL-D3zekXarcamp;hl=enamp;sa=Xamp;ei=Gmr_VLCLC8nuoASAyYHQBQamp;ved=0CC4Q6AEwAw#v=onepageamp;q=%22relaxation%20response%22%20levitationamp;f=false ...On other expeditions, my colleagues and I tried to confirm legendary reports that Tibetan monks levitate, rising and hovering above the ground during meditation. But when we were allwed to view the levitation of monks in the mountain hamlet of Chail, it appeared only to be an act of considerable physical agility in which monks, leg-locked in lotus position, sprang several inches off the floor. They did not hover. I was told through a translator that the sages of old had done so. When I asked, Is it possible today? the monk replied, with a twinkle in his eye, There is no need. Today we have airplanes. And, I should point out that the subjects for Fred Travis' study on the psychological and physiological correlates of enlightenment were mostly drawn from long-term participants in teh Invincible America course. The average foam time was about 15,000 hours. Further, the EEG of the TM-Sidhis, including Yogic Flying when hopping isn't involved, is TM-like, but with more coherence in non-alpha frequencies -in other words, more CC-like. So mocking people who sit on the foam in the Domes for years is an expression of both rudeness AND ignorance (of course those often go hand-in-hand). L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote : [...] If we were to discover meditation tomorrow and start the nomenclature all over again would we still go for a unified field/pure consciousness/vedic infinity kind of approach? I think not. The emphasis would be mostly on what use it might possibly have, and that would be based on evidence and not the wild claims of the reesh. It would be a good project as we could disabuse people of the idea that it's something to do with physics from the get-go and thus remove a lot of tricksy cash cows from organisations like the TMO and also stop a lot of people spending all their lives sitting in domes waiting to fly and create a non-existent peace-field when they could be doing something they might be more proud of in later life. Would it be as much fun though?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
May be two sides of the same pure Consciousness coin, as hinted at by a previous contributor. You may be conflating going into Ecstacy (the Ecstatic state is a particular state described by certain Christian Saints and their observers in which to outwarded appearances, the subject is (as if) dead or totally unconsciousness.) While in Ecstasy, the Saint's body may be observed to levitate or engage in other mystical events. . Upon awakening to normal consciousness, the Saint may or may not have a memory of what transpired during the Ecstatic state. . Similarly, Ramakrishna made a big thing of going into Samadhi and being in a type of stupor. Sometimes he would be standing while in the state. His example appears to be close to what you are describing as a true state of Samadhi. .. However, it's unclear to me at least (not having experienced it), that one even has to go into the (to outward appearances) unconscious state at all. Was not Krishnamurti in Unity regardless of what he did: waking, dreaming, deep sleep, or whatever.? . Similarly, in the Sat Mat (Radhaswami) Tradition, a state of Ecstasy is recognized accompanied by the body appearing as if dead, in a state of apparent rigor mortis. . Short if any proof or scientific evidence for the existence of such state's, I can only go so far as to listen to what the Saints have to say with an open mind; and some day hope to gain similar experiential knowledge.
[FairfieldLife] Mushroom men
From The Telegraph: A new type of mushroom shaped like a fisherman has been discovered in Norfolk – just don't try to eat it. The fungi, first spotted in the remote Cockley Cley, almost 15 years ago has been confirmed by scientists as a completely new species. Its appearance has been compared to a fisherman because it has a little round head that could be a seafaring hat and two protrusions that look somewhat like arms inside a Mackintosh. The fungi have been given the name Geastrum britannicum, recognising that, so far, they have only been found in Britain.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
But the dome but-bouncers haven't even gotten to the first (frog-hopping) stage, so it's more a matter of objectivity rather than rudeness. .. As far as even close to being credible, (imo) a good second hand account would be the chapter in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi on the levitating Saint (a practitioner of Kriya Yoga). There are other accounts of Kriya Yogin levitators besides Yogananda's. .. In any event, the Traditions of a. Kriya Yoga and b. Christianity; may be good candidates for exploring possible examples of true levitation (hovering); in contrast to the TM Tradition which is a dud.
[FairfieldLife] featuring Richard J. Davidson
Co-author of the SA article Mind of the Meditator. The bio says he's a confidante and friend of the Dalai Lama. Center for Investigating Healthy Minds - Center Founder, Dr. Richard J. Davidson http://www.investigatinghealthyminds.org/cihmDrDavidson.html http://www.investigatinghealthyminds.org/cihmDrDavidson.html Center for Investigating Healthy Minds - Center Fo... http://www.investigatinghealthyminds.org/cihmDrDavidson.html Center Founder, Dr. Richard J. Davidson View on www.investigatinghe... http://www.investigatinghealthyminds.org/cihmDrDavidson.html Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Responses embedded following your text in the old school way of responding... L ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anartaxius@... wrote : [...] Meditation may reduce death, heart attack and stroke in heart patients Meditation and Heart Health http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MyHeartandStrokeNews/Meditation-and-Heart-Disease-Stroke_UCM_452930_Article.jsp (another AHA page) http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MyHeartandStrokeNews/Meditation-and-Heart-Disease-Stroke_UCM_452930_Article.jsp Meditation and Heart Health http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MyHeartandStrokeNews/Meditation-and-Heart-Disease-Stroke_UCM_452930_Article.jsp Lower stress, cardiovascular disease risk by meditating. Taking a few minutes to relax each day could help you lower your risks of cardiovascular disease. View on www.heart.org http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MyHeartandStrokeNews/Meditation-and-Heart-Disease-Stroke_UCM_452930_Article.jsp Preview by Yahoo On the other hand, the only long-term study on mindfulness and high blood pressure I know of explicitly says that the effects of mindfulness on blood pressure go away after 2 or 3 years. What were the effects of the follow up on the TM study? I don't know, by the way. The 2012 study they refer to WAS the followup: Meditation may reduce death, heart attack and stroke in heart patients | American Heart Association http://newsroom.heart.org/news/meditation-may-reduce-death-heart-240647 http://newsroom.heart.org/news/meditation-may-reduce-death-heart-240647 Meditation may reduce death, heart attack and stroke in ... http://newsroom.heart.org/news/meditation-may-reduce-death-heart-240647 Study Highlights: Twice-a-day Transcendental Meditation helped African Americans with heart disease reduce risk of death, heart attack and stroke. Medit... View on newsroom.hea... http://newsroom.heart.org/news/meditation-may-reduce-death-heart-240647 Preview by Yahoo African Americans with heart disease who practiced Transcendental Meditation regularly were 48 percent less likely to have a heart attack http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HeartAttack/Heart-Attack_UCM_001092_SubHomePage.jsp, stroke http://www.strokeassociation.org/STROKEORG/AboutStroke/About-Stroke_UCM_308529_SubHomePage.jsp or die from all causes compared with African Americans who attended a health education class over more than five years, according to new research published in the American Heart Association journal Circulation: Cardiovascular Quality and Outcomes. [...] Fred Travis has published physiological research on 17 people in CC and tells me that he has found at least 51 new CC subjects for a new physiological study on CC that he's doing. Anyone who wants 'enlightenment' really should aim a bit higher than CC, or 'glorified ignorance' as M said. CC is pretty common these days with so many meditators from various traditions having practised for many decades. I remain unconvinced of that. Many different states can be described the same way, and yet have completely different physiological correlates. CC, for example, seems to depend on strengthening the connections between the parts of the brain thought to be responsible for sense-of-self (which typically is associated in scientific literature with mind-wandering and aimless thoughts) without associating any specific mental activity with the connectivity between the regions of the brain responsible for sense-of-self. The Self in CC is just what everyone else calls self, but without the ongoing mental stuff that clouds the issue about what Self really is or isn't. Other practices actually reduce connectivity between these same parts of the brain, and are held (by the scientists reporting the fact) to be reducing sense-of-self. And state that can be interpreted to sound like CC obviously isn't teh same thing as self goes away as a result of these practices. And as far as the claim that Unity isn't involved goes, I simplified Fred's papesr. He asked people who had Self present 24 hours per day, to describe their self and made physiological measures and correlated them with the response to the question and to other psychological measures. The only criterion was that Self was present 24 hours a day, including during deep sleep, continuously for at least a year. He didn't try to screen OUT people who were in higher states than CC. Here's teh response to the question Describe your self given by various enlightened subjects. Note that CC, GC, and UC-like responses were given by various people, but with only 17 subjects total, it wasn't possible to do sub-group analysis, so there's no way to say what physiological correlates there were for CC vs GC vs UC, if indeed there are any such distinctions to be found: Physiological correlates:
[FairfieldLife] featuring Mattheu Ricard
(a Buddhist Monk and co-author of Mind of the Meditator.) .. Home - Matthieu Ricard http://www.matthieuricard.org/en/ http://www.matthieuricard.org/en/ Home - Matthieu Ricard http://www.matthieuricard.org/en/ Thought of the week The underlying sense of uneasiness that we have now is actually a good thing: it is the expression of our sensitivity. View on www.matthieuricard.org http://www.matthieuricard.org/en/ Preview by Yahoo
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
So now you're saying that the Yogic Flyers aren't really hopping like a frog? Hmmm ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero@... wrote : But the dome but-bouncers haven't even gotten to the first (frog-hopping) stage, so it's more a matter of objectivity rather than rudeness. .. As far as even close to being credible, (imo) a good second hand account would be the chapter in Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi on the levitating Saint (a practitioner of Kriya Yoga). There are other accounts of Kriya Yogin levitators besides Yogananda's. .. In any event, the Traditions of a. Kriya Yoga and b. Christianity; may be good candidates for exploring possible examples of true levitation (hovering); in contrast to the TM Tradition which is a dud.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Mind of the Meditator
Absolutely! The Dome but-bouncers can even come close to the hopping of real frogs. Refer to the websites on the frog-jumping contests at the Calaveras County fair. One site shows Larry the Cable Guy holding one of the champion frogs. Larry would'nt be caught dead in the Domes.
