[FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM
I think you are mostly accepting others rumor as fact.possibly true is not a worthwhile point of departure for discussing anything much.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM
Thanks Feste37, That is high praise coming from you and I appreciate that. A challenge here for TM is that while we have had a large movement of good-hearted practitioner meditators we evidently have also had an unethical managerial class long exercising power over the the culture of the organization and its meditator practitioners. As a lack of virtuous ethical standard became apparent a lot of meditators of the meditating movement over time have simply melted away their support. Our lack in effectiveness as an organization quietly became about the lack of ethic in management as then what was a large meditating movement walked away. This same kind of lack in virtue of ethics is now being discovered in the officer corps and culture of the U.S. military right now and it is actively being looked so at as to figure out why and what to do about it. Lessons to be had about effectiveness. To my eye that couple in TM India who are bringing sexual misconduct charges against Girish Varma have quite a lot of courage blowing the whistle within the TM world that they live in against a guy who is quite large in primal control and power force as his own autocratic element in the larger TM organization these meditators have been dedicated to. A reason that this Indian couple can challenge the horrific behaviour is the larger ethical context of Indian civil society around the gang rapes and the laws and commissions set up to assert ethical standard of rights of . If there is a standard articulated you got a metric to work off of. The couple has larger ethical standards articulated in the civil code that gives them cover. It will be relevant to watch how the US military as an organization re-fits its own ethical culture as we all figure out what to do with TM.org. See this NPR report that frames the ethical problem they have in the ethics of organizational culture within the military. There are some really great short comments reflecting on culture of ethics or lack thereof: http://www.npr.org/2014/02/21/280759181/new-military-ethics-chief-will-face-a-full-plate http://www.npr.org/2014/02/21/280759181/new-military-ethics-chief-will-face-a-full-plate Like with the military, it's a matter of having corporate statement about what is expected ethically and then that gives a metric to work off of. Neither of which the TMO has ever really had. It is time for a change in that going forward, -Buck RW writes: Nothing you do can change the past, but what you do now can make your own future. feste37 writes: Very good post, Buck. You are exactly right. Buck writes: Yep; No, no this is an old vendetta you keep. You have no idea what they are like now. Born in to life with their personalities, their upbringings and such all these people put their pants on one leg at a time in life. You left TM a long time ago. They stayed on the path and you wandered off in to the world a long time ago. This is hardly a scientific conclusion or spiritually fair what you are asserting. You'd have to come back to better judge how it goes for these guys. No, you are just making excuses for railing against TM again instead of understanding these people and what makes them tick otherwise. Their bad-behavior mostly likely had not anything to do with the practice of TM it was just who they were. - Buck Michael Jackson wrote: Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. RW writes: So, what do these people have to do with your meditation? MJackson74 writes Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM
I absolutely agree with your first paragraph - yet you still refuse to answer a very simple question. If TM and TMSP are as effective as you say they are and as effective as the TMO claims it is - with no negative side effects, no down side whatsoever, how then can such unethical behavior come from people who have been doing the practices regularly for decades? If TM and TMSP are as billed, those behaviors should have vanished long ago or never manifested in the first place. Yet we see a pervasive and decades long lack of virtuous ethical standard And such lack of ethics all started with your much vaunted Maharishi. On Sat, 2/22/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 5:25 PM Thanks Feste37, That is high praise coming from you and I appreciate that. A challenge here for TM is that while we have had a large movement of good-hearted practitioner meditators we evidently have also had an unethical managerial class long exercising power over the the culture of the organization and its meditator practitioners. As a lack of virtuous ethical standard became apparent a lot of meditators of the meditating movement over time have simply melted away their support. Our lack in effectiveness as an organization quietly became about the lack of ethic in management as then what was a large meditating movement walked away. This same kind of lack in virtue of ethics is now being discovered in the officer corps and culture of the U.S. military right now and it is actively being looked so at as to figure out why and what to do about it. Lessons to be had about effectiveness. To my eye that couple in TM India who are bringing sexual misconduct charges against Girish Varma have quite a lot of courage blowing the whistle within the TM world that they live in against a guy who is quite large in primal control and power force as his own autocratic element in the larger TM organization these meditators have been dedicated to. A reason that this Indian couple can challenge the horrific behaviour is the larger ethical context of Indian civil society around the gang rapes and the laws and commissions set up to assert ethical standard of rights of . If there is a standard articulated you got a metric to work off of. The couple has larger ethical standards articulated in the civil code that gives them cover. It will be relevant to watch how the US military as an organization re-fits its own ethical culture as we all figure out what to do with TM.org. See this NPR report that frames the ethical problem they have in the ethics of organizational culture within the military. There are some really great short comments reflecting on culture of ethics or lack thereof: http://www.npr.org/2014/02/21/280759181/new-military-ethics-chief-will-face-a-full-plate Like with the military, it's a matter of having corporate statement about what is expected ethically and then that gives a metric to work off of. Neither of which the TMO has ever really had. It is time for a change in that going forward, -Buck RW writes: Nothing you do can change the past, but what you do now can make your own future. feste37 writes: Very good post, Buck. You are exactly right. Buck writes: Yep; No, no this is an old vendetta you keep. You have no idea what they are like now. Born in to life with their personalities, their upbringings and such all these people put their pants on one leg at a time in life. You left TM a long time ago. They stayed on the path and you wandered off in to the world a long time ago. This is hardly a scientific conclusion or spiritually fair what you are asserting. You'd have to come back to better judge how it goes for these guys. No, you are just making excuses for railing against TM again instead of understanding these people and what makes them tick otherwise. Their bad-behavior mostly likely had not anything to do with the practice of TM it was just who they were. - Buck Michael Jackson wrote: Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. RW writes: So, what do these people have to do with your meditation? MJackson74 writes Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM
On 2/22/2014 11:49 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: If TM and TMSP are as effective as you say they are and as effective as the TMO claims it is - with no negative side effects, no down side whatsoever, how then can such unethical behavior come from people who have been doing the practices regularly for decades? There are no known unethical behaviors that I know of that could be attributed to the practice of basic TM. Can you cite any?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM
again Richi, I encourage you to go to your local community college you are always mouthing about and sign up for a basic reading comprehension course in English. I did not say the unethical behavior was DUE to TM, I said that if TM is as advertised, decades of TM and TMSP practice should have eliminated any such unethical tendency. On Sat, 2/22/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, February 22, 2014, 7:23 PM On 2/22/2014 11:49 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: If TM and TMSP are as effective as you say they are and as effective as the TMO claims it is - with no negative side effects, no down side whatsoever, how then can such unethical behavior come from people who have been doing the practices regularly for decades? There are no known unethical behaviors that I know of that could be attributed to the practice of basic TM. Can you cite any?
[FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM
Very good post, Buck. You are exactly right. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yep; No, no this is an old vendetta you keep. You have no idea what they are like now. Born in to life with their personalities, their upbringings and such all these people put their pants on one leg at a time in life. You left TM a long time ago. They stayed on the path and you wandered off in to the world a long time ago. This is hardly a scientific conclusion or spiritually fair what you are asserting. You'd have to come back to better judge how it goes for these guys. No, you are just making excuses for railing against TM again instead of understanding these people and what makes them tick otherwise. Their bad-behavior mostly likely had not anything to do with the practice of TM it was just who they were. -Buck , Michael Jackson wrote: Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. RW writes: So, what do these people have to do with your meditation? MJackson74 writes Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are making excuses for why TM obviously seems to work in reverse for people who run the Movement.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM
if you believe that you are as whacked out as Buck is On Fri, 2/21/14, feste37 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: Moral Behavior and TM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 21, 2014, 8:16 PM Very good post, Buck. You are exactly right. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Yep; No, no this is an old vendetta you keep. You have no idea what they are like now. Born in to life with their personalities, their upbringings and such all these people put their pants on one leg at a time in life. You left TM a long time ago. They stayed on the path and you wandered off in to the world a long time ago. This is hardly a scientific conclusion or spiritually fair what you are asserting. You'd have to come back to better judge how it goes for these guys. No, you are just making excuses for railing against TM again instead of understanding these people and what makes them tick otherwise. Their bad-behavior mostly likely had not anything to do with the practice of TM it was just who they were.-Buck , Michael Jackson wrote: Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. RW writes:So, what do these people have to do with your meditation? MJackson74 writes Okay Buddy, you are laying it on the line here: Obviously we are born in to this wold with nature and then there is nurture. Evidently moral behavior is something developed and cultured in good upbringing. My feeling in watching is that a lot of the bad behavior that MJ in writing here for instance is so upset about in the TM community movement comes from bad upbringing and does not have so much of anything to do with whether some one meditates. It's mostly bad manners without virtue. Evidently. That's what I see, they are just being bad people for their poor upbringings and sometimes they are even immoral. Okay, that can be really bad at times on the part of some but not the normative of most folks. Just really bad upbringing. The whole point to many of my posts here is that TM does not work as you claim it works. The WHOLE FUCKING POINT to TM all these years is that TM IMPROVES EVERYTHING! That is the claim made for it. That's the whole point to doing TM, improving your life. If one has bad upbringing, then TM can make you a better person. Why do you think the David Lynch leeches are pushing so hard to get TM to the AT RISK populations, especially the young ones??? To, among other things, counteract BAD UPBRINGING! So if bad upbringing can't be negated or improved by regular practice of TM, what good is the practice? You have hoist yourself on your own petard, Buck. You seem to be saying that if one has bad upbringing, TM won't change the behavior that bad upbringing creates. Specifically, I have found fault with Bevan Morris, Greg and Georgina Wilson, Bill Sands, Neal Patterson, Marshy, Girish, the Srivastavas brothers, Susan Humphries, Cris Crowell, John Hagelin, Reed Martin and all the lying and manipulation that they and other small medium and large managers in the TMO have done. Are you saying that all the above named individuals had bad upbringing? You are making excuses for why TM obviously seems to work in reverse for people who run the Movement.
