[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > the yogic ability to tell others' states of consciousness, 
> like 
> > > > Rick 
> > > > > and me? >>>
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yes.
> > > 
> > > *lol* Now that *IS* funny! :-D
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Oh come on Rory, quit beating Off.
> > 
> > *lol* Nice pun. Unfortunately, I have to play with myself; there 
> is no 
> > one else. I am actually trying to do us a favor, pointing out 
his 
> > complete inability to tell the truth. First he says he is *not* 
a 
> > yogi, but shares *only* the yogi's propensity for total 
credulence 
> > (barring "objective physical evidence" to the contrary) (and 
this 
> btw 
> > is the first time I have ever heard of this particular yogic 
> > criterion), but then reverses himself and agrees he has the 
yogic 
> > ability to tell another's state of consciousness. So at which 
> point is 
> > he lying?
> > 
> > Off, you earlier said you "suspect" I am not even a (lost) yogi 
> yet.  
> > Do you merely "suspect" it or do you "know" it? If you "suspect" 
> it, 
> > this is evidence of mere mentation and not of a yogic power, 
isn't 
> it?
> > At which point were you lying  >>>
> 
> snip
> 
> >>> Here's something else to chew on: Offworld, I "awoke" 
or "died" 
> into 
> > Brahman nearly 23 years ago, after finding C.C., G.C. and U.C. 
> > insufficient. Do you believe me, or do you have objective, 
> physical 
> > evidence to the contrary to show I am lying?
> > 
> > :-)>>>
> 
> Do you ever stop going on about people lying? Is that your 
favorite 
> neurosis or something?
> Carry on there.don't let me stop you.

If you're not going to answer the questions, but just deflect, we 
have no basis to engage each other -- well and good. Carry on 
theredon't let me stop you.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > 
> > > > the yogic ability to tell others' states of consciousness, 
like 
> > > Rick 
> > > > and me? >>>
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes.
> > 
> > *lol* Now that *IS* funny! :-D
> > 
> > 
> > Oh come on Rory, quit beating Off.
> 
> *lol* Nice pun. Unfortunately, I have to play with myself; there 
is no 
> one else. I am actually trying to do us a favor, pointing out his 
> complete inability to tell the truth. First he says he is *not* a 
> yogi, but shares *only* the yogi's propensity for total credulence 
> (barring "objective physical evidence" to the contrary) (and this 
btw 
> is the first time I have ever heard of this particular yogic 
> criterion), but then reverses himself and agrees he has the yogic 
> ability to tell another's state of consciousness. So at which 
point is 
> he lying?
> 
> Off, you earlier said you "suspect" I am not even a (lost) yogi 
yet.  
> Do you merely "suspect" it or do you "know" it? If you "suspect" 
it, 
> this is evidence of mere mentation and not of a yogic power, isn't 
it?
> At which point were you lying  >>>

snip

>>> Here's something else to chew on: Offworld, I "awoke" or "died" 
into 
> Brahman nearly 23 years ago, after finding C.C., G.C. and U.C. 
> insufficient. Do you believe me, or do you have objective, 
physical 
> evidence to the contrary to show I am lying?
> 
> :-)>>>

Do you ever stop going on about people lying? Is that your favorite 
neurosis or something?
Carry on there.don't let me stop you.
OffWorld




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > > the yogic ability to tell others' states of consciousness, like 
> > Rick 
> > > and me? >>>
> > 
> > 
> > Yes.
> 
> *lol* Now that *IS* funny! :-D
> 
> 
> Oh come on Rory, quit beating Off.

*lol* Nice pun. Unfortunately, I have to play with myself; there is no 
one else. I am actually trying to do us a favor, pointing out his 
complete inability to tell the truth. First he says he is *not* a 
yogi, but shares *only* the yogi's propensity for total credulence 
(barring "objective physical evidence" to the contrary) (and this btw 
is the first time I have ever heard of this particular yogic 
criterion), but then reverses himself and agrees he has the yogic 
ability to tell another's state of consciousness. So at which point is 
he lying?

Off, you earlier said you "suspect" I am not even a (lost) yogi yet.  
Do you merely "suspect" it or do you "know" it? If you "suspect" it, 
this is evidence of mere mentation and not of a yogic power, isn't it?
At which point were you lying -- when you said you suspect it (just to 
be polite perhaps) or when you said you knew it?

I am pointing out a few of (y)our myriad inconsistencies to show that 
you lie a lot. So do we all. Brahman is paradox. Consistency is a pipe 
dream. It is utterly impossible to tell the whole truth (even now). 
Why then would you expect those around you to always tell the deepest 
truth, barring objective physical evidence to the contrary?

Here's something else to chew on: Offworld, I "awoke" or "died" into 
Brahman nearly 23 years ago, after finding C.C., G.C. and U.C. 
insufficient. Do you believe me, or do you have objective, physical 
evidence to the contrary to show I am lying?

:-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > On Jul 20, 2005, at 7:54 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> > 
> > > And, then there's L B Shriver; it wasn't enough to banish him 
from
> > > campus, so they tried to pressure his employer to fire him. 
And, they
> > > claim to not be a cult? Quelle folie!
> > 
> > My god is this true? LB?
> > 
> > Why were you "banned" LB?
> 
> 
> 
> I was "excommunicated" in 1994 for publishing a paper called 
Survival in Paradise, in 
> which I raised questions (and offered opinions) regarding various 
aspects of the 
> Movement's policies and The Fairfield Experience.
> 
> My exit interview was conducted on Guru Purnamah, coincidentally on 
the same day they 
> announced that the dome fees were being tripled, and within a few 
hours of the last big 
> chunk of a passing comet smashing into Jupiter.
> 
> I was banned from campus three years ago. The letter they sent 
claimed that I had been 
> banned from campus in 1994, which was of course not true. When I 
provided the 
> documentation which showed them to be in error, they basically just 
said, "Well, we don't 
> know about that, but if you come on campus we'll have you arrested."
> 
> I think the primary objection was that I had been practicing 
martial arts in the student 
> union basement. In fact, that had been my practice for over a 
quarter of a century, but I 
> think that someone who normally spent no time there happened to see 
me and to 
> complain to the administration.
> 

By martial arts, do you mean Tai CHi?

> There have been other sources of irritation (letters to the editor 
in the Ledger, etc), but 
> basically they just don't want me talking to people on campus.
> 
> L B S




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

> > the yogic ability to tell others' states 
of consciousness, like > Rick > > and me?  
> > Yes.*lol* Now that *IS* funny! :-DOh 
come on Rory, quit beating 
Off.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
> > [...]
> > > It only makes sense if those people are practicing
> > > other programs or techniques during their time in the
> > > dome. The TMO, however, is punishing people who visit
> > > other saints without any knowledge if they are
> > > practicing any other techniques or programs. Basically
> > > they are punishing people for "crimes" of thought.
> > > People are thinking in a way that they don't like.
> > 
> > But what criteria would you use to ban someone? Can you tell, just by 
> > looking, if someone is practicing TM or some technique given (or 
> > modified) by some other teacher?
> 
> You make it clear that only the dome program is to be done in the
> dome, if you want to have people sign a pledge saying that, fine.  Why
> the paranoia?  Do you think there are scores of people wanting to
> sneak into the stuffy dome at specific times for 2 hrs to do other
> techniques??  People who now do other techniques do them at home or
> with a group that does those techniques.  What other technique would
> you do?  You can't do yoga in the dome, you can't chant, you can't
> stare at each other ala bondier, you can't do much of anything that
> wouldn't stand out.  The fact is most people are sleeping there anyway.

And you have to pay for it, too. What are the dome fees now?

JohnY




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > < closer
> > > > > analysis it appears as if what sticks in your craw is the 
> very
> > > > > possibility that MMY could ever lie. Would this be an 
> accurate
> > > > > assessment of your position?>>>
> > > > > 
> > > > > Unlike the non-yogic types such as yourself, I believe 
what 
> > > people 
> > > > > tell me about themselves (all people) unless otherwise 
> > presented 
> > > > with 
> > > > > REAL OBJECTIVE PUBLIC evidence to see that someone a is 
> liar. 
> > > This 
> > > > is 
> > > > > my nature, always has been, always will be. It is the 
nature 
> > of 
> > > a 
> > > > > yogi. 
> > > > 
> > > > Ahh, I see. Well, that certainly sounds like a fair and 
> rational 
> > > > stance, and most commendable. I do wonder though why an 
> > > accomplished 
> > > > yogi would expect that everyone around him would always tell 
> the 
> > > > deepest truth, and rely on "real objective public evidence" 
> > > > (whatever that might be), and not simply avail himself of 
rtam-
> > > bara-
> > > > pragya. >>>
> > > 
> > > I said it was the nature of a Yogi, but I didn't say I was a 
> Yogi. 
> > I 
> > > happen to share this quality with real yogi's by coincidence 
but 
> > > that is all I have in common with them.
> > 
> > Ahh, OK, I see. So you are a non-Yogi, and only coincidentally 
> > happen to share this universal credulousness (barring objective 
> > public evidence to the contrary) that real yogis have, and you 
> make 
> > no claims for rtam-bara-pragya, and yet you also believe you 
have 
> > the yogic ability to tell others' states of consciousness, like 
> Rick 
> > and me? >>>
> 
> 
> Yes.

*lol* Now that *IS* funny! :-D




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > < > > > analysis it appears as if what sticks in your craw is the 
very
> > > > possibility that MMY could ever lie. Would this be an 
accurate
> > > > assessment of your position?>>>
> > > > 
> > > > Unlike the non-yogic types such as yourself, I believe what 
> > people 
> > > > tell me about themselves (all people) unless otherwise 
> presented 
> > > with 
> > > > REAL OBJECTIVE PUBLIC evidence to see that someone a is 
liar. 
> > This 
> > > is 
> > > > my nature, always has been, always will be. It is the nature 
> of 
> > a 
> > > > yogi. 
> > > 
> > > Ahh, I see. Well, that certainly sounds like a fair and 
rational 
> > > stance, and most commendable. I do wonder though why an 
> > accomplished 
> > > yogi would expect that everyone around him would always tell 
the 
> > > deepest truth, and rely on "real objective public evidence" 
> > > (whatever that might be), and not simply avail himself of rtam-
> > bara-
> > > pragya. >>>
> > 
> > I said it was the nature of a Yogi, but I didn't say I was a 
Yogi. 
> I 
> > happen to share this quality with real yogi's by coincidence but 
> > that is all I have in common with them.
> 
> Ahh, OK, I see. So you are a non-Yogi, and only coincidentally 
> happen to share this universal credulousness (barring objective 
> public evidence to the contrary) that real yogis have, and you 
make 
> no claims for rtam-bara-pragya, and yet you also believe you have 
> the yogic ability to tell others' states of consciousness, like 
Rick 
> and me? >>>


Yes.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > < > > analysis it appears as if what sticks in your craw is the very
> > > possibility that MMY could ever lie. Would this be an accurate
> > > assessment of your position?>>>
> > > 
> > > Unlike the non-yogic types such as yourself, I believe what 
> people 
> > > tell me about themselves (all people) unless otherwise 
presented 
> > with 
> > > REAL OBJECTIVE PUBLIC evidence to see that someone a is liar. 
> This 
> > is 
> > > my nature, always has been, always will be. It is the nature 
of 
> a 
> > > yogi. 
> > 
> > Ahh, I see. Well, that certainly sounds like a fair and rational 
> > stance, and most commendable. I do wonder though why an 
> accomplished 
> > yogi would expect that everyone around him would always tell the 
> > deepest truth, and rely on "real objective public evidence" 
> > (whatever that might be), and not simply avail himself of rtam-
> bara-
> > pragya. >>>
> 
> I said it was the nature of a Yogi, but I didn't say I was a Yogi. 
I 
> happen to share this quality with real yogi's by coincidence but 
> that is all I have in common with them.

Ahh, OK, I see. So you are a non-Yogi, and only coincidentally 
happen to share this universal credulousness (barring objective 
public evidence to the contrary) that real yogis have, and you make 
no claims for rtam-bara-pragya, and yet you also believe you have 
the yogic ability to tell others' states of consciousness, like Rick 
and me?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > < > analysis it appears as if what sticks in your craw is the very
> > possibility that MMY could ever lie. Would this be an accurate
> > assessment of your position?>>>
> > 
> > Unlike the non-yogic types such as yourself, I believe what 
people 
> > tell me about themselves (all people) unless otherwise presented 
> with 
> > REAL OBJECTIVE PUBLIC evidence to see that someone a is liar. 
This 
> is 
> > my nature, always has been, always will be. It is the nature of 
a 
> > yogi. 
> 
> Ahh, I see. Well, that certainly sounds like a fair and rational 
> stance, and most commendable. I do wonder though why an 
accomplished 
> yogi would expect that everyone around him would always tell the 
> deepest truth, and rely on "real objective public evidence" 
> (whatever that might be), and not simply avail himself of rtam-
bara-
> pragya. >>>

I said it was the nature of a Yogi, but I didn't say I was a Yogi. I 
happen to share this quality with real yogi's by coincidence but 
that is all I have in common with them.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Rory IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE  A BIG JOKE YOU FUCKING MORONIC 
> > ASSHOLE !
> 
> DuuuhHuh? :-D

Thanks, Offworld -- I do appreciate the pitta more than the tamas :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Having met you in person, you strike me as paradoxically happy in 
your miserableness.

*lol* That too.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> < analysis it appears as if what sticks in your craw is the very
> possibility that MMY could ever lie. Would this be an accurate
> assessment of your position?>>>
> 
> Unlike the non-yogic types such as yourself, I believe what people 
> tell me about themselves (all people) unless otherwise presented 
with 
> REAL OBJECTIVE PUBLIC evidence to see that someone a is liar. This 
is 
> my nature, always has been, always will be. It is the nature of a 
> yogi. 

Ahh, I see. Well, that certainly sounds like a fair and rational 
stance, and most commendable. I do wonder though why an accomplished 
yogi would expect that everyone around him would always tell the 
deepest truth, and rely on "real objective public evidence" 
(whatever that might be), and not simply avail himself of rtam-bara-
pragya. 

It is also Rick's nature, but he is going through a phase.
> You have yet to reach that level/standard I suspect.

Wonderful that you consider yourself so capable of telling what 
another's enlightenment-level might be! You could probably teach MMY 
himself a few things :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It probably depends on what you are doing it for. Seeing if it 
effects 
> world peace or coherence with just a few thousand people is kinda 
like 
> seeing if a couple thousand people putting salt in the ocean will 
> produce measurable results in ocean salinity...
> 
> But I know of ways this has worked for specific people, for 
specific 
> ends. One that comes to mind is learning the phowa or the 
transference 
> of consciousness. Normally this involves going into strict retreat 
and 
> practicing  methods to actually open the fontanel to be able to 
> transfer consciousness and obtain enlightenment at the moment of 
death. 
> Of course it has other benefits as well. But it's a rigorous 
practice: 
> lots of visualization and working with your life force to actually 
> physically obtain signs of success. Some can do that, some can't. 
Most 
> will begin to break through in a couple of days, others later. But 
> there are almost always some who cannot. Maybe it's age, maybe 
it's 
> illness--there are a number of reasons people can't achieve 
results. So 
> what we do is put the people who are having a hard time in our 
group 
> focus and help them awaken. And guess what, it works.
> 
> I've done the same with people who couldn't visualize a mandala or 
a 
> deity practice, etc. and it has always had tangible results in 
helping 
> others with their practice accomplishment--and then they to gain 
> greater capacity to help others. So it's a true win-win thing.
> 
> I can see the same benefit in awakening shakti in the early TM 
days. I 
> think it helped others in their practice. Did it help world peace? 
Not 
> sure...maybe, maybe not. But it definitely produces some sort of 
> entrainment effect or morphogenetic field--whatever you want to 
call 
> it.

Nice post, Vaj; thanks. Yes, I can definitely buy the idea of a 
morphogenetic field, and a collective-consciousness "deva" and so 
on. I am mostly reacting to my experience that FF is (to me) a more 
excitingly harmonious and coherently sattvic community now than ever 
before, with so many more people now happily exploring their own 
paths. You probably wouldn't believe this town these days! Perhaps 
the many years they all spent exploring TM created enough of a 
coherent field to sustain all the heterodox exploration; perhaps it 
is simply the more widespread opening of Heart, which goes 
fearlessly beyond conceptual limits to embrace the Other as the 
Self; I don't know... but I like it, and in my experience anyhow the 
dome has next to nothing to do with it :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > You on the other handare not even in the same league as
> > Rick. You seem like a miserable old fartthats about it
> > really.
> 
> Nothing much I can say to that...I am certain I can find a
> miserable old fart in me somewhere :-)

Having met you in person, you strike me as paradoxically happy in your 
miserableness.

Alex




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

<>>

Unlike the non-yogic types such as yourself, I believe what people 
tell me about themselves (all people) unless otherwise presented with 
REAL OBJECTIVE PUBLIC evidence to see that someone a is liar. This is 
my nature, always has been, always will be. It is the nature of a 
yogi. It is also Rick's nature, but he is going through a phase.
You have yet to reach that level/standard I suspect.
OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Offworld wrote:
> > > > But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge 
comliment.  
> > >You others do not come up to that category. 
> > 
> > Here's your original quote: "I like how Rick posts this kind of 
> thing. 
> > It shows something at least. You are a lost-yogi in a grey and 
> > directionless mind zone." 
> > 
> > Would you please clarify a) how this is a compliment to Rick, 
and b) 
> > in what way we others do not "come up to that category?" >.
> 
> You are not a lost yogi Rory. Rick is. He has the consciousness of 
a 
> Yogi, but is not acting like one when he makes stuff up and calls 
> Maharhishi a liar and such like.

Ahh, I see. So calling Rick a lost Yogi was *not* a compliment, 
after all! Liar, liar, pants on fire :-)


> You on the other handare not even in the same league as Rick. 
You 
> seem like a miserable old fartthats about it really.

Nothing much I can say to that...I am certain I can find a miserable 
old fart in me somewhere :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Rory IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE  A BIG JOKE YOU FUCKING MORONIC 
> ASSHOLE !

DuuuhHuh? :-D




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Sorry for being do immature Rory, please forgive me oh wise one.

*lol* OK, even this idiotic, prejudiced old man with no sense of humor 
got that one! Funny! :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

<>>

Good points.
In know. 
I try to use reason and observation, but many of the people here can't 
really see the nuances of what I say because of their own knee jerk 
prejudice, so they pounce on stupid insignificant stuff as if that 
proves something. I wonder if they will ever be able to think 
objectively with such hatred. (yes, if someone reading this feels it 
is about them.then it probably is)
OffWorld




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Vaj]

On Jul 20, 2005, at 4:20 PM, Rory Goff wrote:

> No. And personally, I fail to see the big deal about the so-
> called "coherence" generated by everyone's practicing the same
> technique.

It probably depends on what you are doing it for. Seeing if it effects 
world peace or coherence with just a few thousand people is kinda like 
seeing if a couple thousand people putting salt in the ocean will 
produce measurable results in ocean salinity...

But I know of ways this has worked for specific people, for specific 
ends. One that comes to mind is learning the phowa or the transference 
of consciousness. Normally this involves going into strict retreat and 
practicing  methods to actually open the fontanel to be able to 
transfer consciousness and obtain enlightenment at the moment of death. 
Of course it has other benefits as well. But it's a rigorous practice: 
lots of visualization and working with your life force to actually 
physically obtain signs of success. Some can do that, some can't. Most 
will begin to break through in a couple of days, others later. But 
there are almost always some who cannot. Maybe it's age, maybe it's 
illness--there are a number of reasons people can't achieve results. So 
what we do is put the people who are having a hard time in our group 
focus and help them awaken. And guess what, it works.

I've done the same with people who couldn't visualize a mandala or a 
deity practice, etc. and it has always had tangible results in helping 
others with their practice accomplishment--and then they to gain 
greater capacity to help others. So it's a true win-win thing.

I can see the same benefit in awakening shakti in the early TM days. I 
think it helped others in their practice. Did it help world peace? Not 
sure...maybe, maybe not. But it definitely produces some sort of 
entrainment effect or morphogenetic field--whatever you want to call 
it.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Offworld wrote:
> > > But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment.  
> >You others do not come up to that category. 
> 
> Here's your original quote: "I like how Rick posts this kind of 
thing. 
> It shows something at least. You are a lost-yogi in a grey and 
> directionless mind zone." 
> 
> Would you please clarify a) how this is a compliment to Rick, and b) 
> in what way we others do not "come up to that category?" >.

You are not a lost yogi Rory. Rick is. He has the consciousness of a 
Yogi, but is not acting like one when he makes stuff up and calls 
Maharhishi a liar and such like.
You on the other handare not even in the same league as Rick. You 
seem like a miserable old fartthats about it really.
OffWorld




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

Rory IT WASN'T SUPPOSED TO BE  A BIG JOKE YOU FUCKING MORONIC 
ASSHOLE !

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> > You need to go up thread to the original post to get it, and 
also 
> > realise that I had whispered the question a couple of times 
before 
> > with no response.
> 
> I *do* realize that. I still don't see why repeating the same 
> question over and over (and shouting it at the end when no one 
> responds) is particularly funny, sorry. Petulantly immature, 
maybe, 
> but not funny. 
> 
> > > It is other statements you have made over time that have 
smelled 
> > of 
> > > TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism to me: some 
> recent 
> > > examples would be your denouncing Rick as a lost yogi, >
> > 
> > But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment. 
> 
> Gee, I wonder if Rick felt complimented by your post! Maybe you 
> should follow your own advice and go back and read it again. 
> 
> >You 
> > others do not come up to that category.
> 
> See? Another sidestep and insult. Humor? Or false-humor to mask 
> anger, aggression, and denial? Don't know; don't really care. Just 
> not particularly funny, IMO. 
>  
> > < > > logic, dismissing his evidence and experience out-of-hand 
> > > because "the accusers are anonymous," >>>
> > 
> > Anonymous is what you call non-evidence you idiot.
> 
> No, "you idiot;" anonymous is what *you* call non-evidence. Rick's 
> evidence smells generally right to me (and I would guess to most 
> other mature minds); your rationalizations and denials do not.
> 
> > < > > opinion piece on TMO and Amma, and accusing MMY's critics of 
> short-
> > > term thinking (a classic cult maneuver is to justify short-
term 
> > > abuse in the name of lofty long-term ideals; i.e., "ends-
justify-
> > > means" enabling). >>>
> > 
> > Wrong. It was a highly prejudiced piece which you are too 
> prejudiced 
> > to see. I would never write such a prejudiced thing about any 
> group 
> > as a reporter.
> 
> See? You flat-out dismiss our point-of-view as "wrong" 
> and "prejudiced." Trademark fundamentalist thinking. What makes 
you 
> think we are prejudiced? Do you know the definition of prejudice? 
It 
> means something along the lines of judging before one has all the 
> facts. Many of us have experienced MMY and the TMO first-hand over 
a 
> period of many years. Many of us may have more knowledge here than 
> you do. Many of us are incredibly grateful to MMY for the divine 
> enlightenment he has shown us, *and* do not flinch from seeing his 
> human narcissism and fallibility. 
>  
> > > To me, all of this points to a completely idealistic image of 
> MMY 
> > > that is seriously threatened by other viewpoints implying 
> > > any "fallibility" or humanity on MMY's part, which (it seems 
to 
> > me) 
> > 
> > 
> > Man , you really lack insight. I have a less ideal image of MMY 
> than 
> > you and half the people here. You just don't see it.
> 
> I am not saying you toe the TMO line in every respect because you 
> certainly don't.  In what way precisely is your image of MMY less 
> ideal than mine and half the people here?
> 
> > > you often attempt to deny through attack, ridicule, insult, 
and 
> so 
> > > on. >>>
> > 
> > Wow, you are making things up.
> > I don't see you saying this to Llundrub, the king of constant 
> > insults. This again shows your prejudice. 
> 
> Llundrub is not the point here; you are. I have found 
> Llundrub's "insults" to be generally based in truth. Yours almost 
> never are. (If I were he, by the way, I would have apologized for 
> *nothing* he said to either Vaj or to you -- it was all on-target, 
> if undiplomatically phrased.)
> 
> > Read those two sentances again.
> 
> Why? I do not find them to be any more pregnant with meaning on 
the 
> second read than the first. Again, they just look like more of 
your 
> classic ego-tactics: flailing around, attacking, and sidestepping. 
> Anything to avoid admitting fallibility, right? :-)
>  
> > < > > invulnerability, omnipotence, and grandiosity. (Although I 
> suppose 
> > > these may all be "jokes" too, for all I can tell with my 
> > apparently-
> > > limited sense of humor.) 
> > 
> > 
> > You have not sense of humor old man.
> 
> That may very well be. Or maybe you're sometimes just not very 
> funny, and/or are using so-called humor to hide something else. 
Who 
> knows? :-)
> 
> > > 
> > > If however you have been serious, I respectfully suggest that 
if 
> > you 
> > > can open up to the paradox of MMY's being both divine *and* 
> human, 
> > > perfect *and* flawed, that you can then allow yourself the 
same 
> > > luxury. 
> > > 
> > > And of course, I may be way off base, in which case you can 
tell 
> > me 
> > > to go take a flying leap. :-)>>>
> > 
> > A smiley face does NOT constitute a sense of humor. It doesn't 
> make 
> > y

[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

Sorry for being do immature Rory, please forgive me oh wise one.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
> > You need to go up thread to the original post to get it, and 
also 
> > realise that I had whispered the question a couple of times 
before 
> > with no response.
> 
> I *do* realize that. I still don't see why repeating the same 
> question over and over (and shouting it at the end when no one 
> responds) is particularly funny, sorry. Petulantly immature, 
maybe, 
> but not funny. 
> 
> > > It is other statements you have made over time that have 
smelled 
> > of 
> > > TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism to me: some 
> recent 
> > > examples would be your denouncing Rick as a lost yogi, >
> > 
> > But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment. 
> 
> Gee, I wonder if Rick felt complimented by your post! Maybe you 
> should follow your own advice and go back and read it again. 
> 
> >You 
> > others do not come up to that category.
> 
> See? Another sidestep and insult. Humor? Or false-humor to mask 
> anger, aggression, and denial? Don't know; don't really care. Just 
> not particularly funny, IMO. 
>  
> > < > > logic, dismissing his evidence and experience out-of-hand 
> > > because "the accusers are anonymous," >>>
> > 
> > Anonymous is what you call non-evidence you idiot.
> 
> No, "you idiot;" anonymous is what *you* call non-evidence. Rick's 
> evidence smells generally right to me (and I would guess to most 
> other mature minds); your rationalizations and denials do not.
> 
> > < > > opinion piece on TMO and Amma, and accusing MMY's critics of 
> short-
> > > term thinking (a classic cult maneuver is to justify short-
term 
> > > abuse in the name of lofty long-term ideals; i.e., "ends-
justify-
> > > means" enabling). >>>
> > 
> > Wrong. It was a highly prejudiced piece which you are too 
> prejudiced 
> > to see. I would never write such a prejudiced thing about any 
> group 
> > as a reporter.
> 
> See? You flat-out dismiss our point-of-view as "wrong" 
> and "prejudiced." Trademark fundamentalist thinking. What makes 
you 
> think we are prejudiced? Do you know the definition of prejudice? 
It 
> means something along the lines of judging before one has all the 
> facts. Many of us have experienced MMY and the TMO first-hand over 
a 
> period of many years. Many of us may have more knowledge here than 
> you do. Many of us are incredibly grateful to MMY for the divine 
> enlightenment he has shown us, *and* do not flinch from seeing his 
> human narcissism and fallibility. 
>  
> > > To me, all of this points to a completely idealistic image of 
> MMY 
> > > that is seriously threatened by other viewpoints implying 
> > > any "fallibility" or humanity on MMY's part, which (it seems 
to 
> > me) 
> > 
> > 
> > Man , you really lack insight. I have a less ideal image of MMY 
> than 
> > you and half the people here. You just don't see it.
> 
> I am not saying you toe the TMO line in every respect because you 
> certainly don't.  In what way precisely is your image of MMY less 
> ideal than mine and half the people here?
> 
> > > you often attempt to deny through attack, ridicule, insult, 
and 
> so 
> > > on. >>>
> > 
> > Wow, you are making things up.
> > I don't see you saying this to Llundrub, the king of constant 
> > insults. This again shows your prejudice. 
> 
> Llundrub is not the point here; you are. I have found 
> Llundrub's "insults" to be generally based in truth. Yours almost 
> never are. (If I were he, by the way, I would have apologized for 
> *nothing* he said to either Vaj or to you -- it was all on-target, 
> if undiplomatically phrased.)
> 
> > Read those two sentances again.
> 
> Why? I do not find them to be any more pregnant with meaning on 
the 
> second read than the first. Again, they just look like more of 
your 
> classic ego-tactics: flailing around, attacking, and sidestepping. 
> Anything to avoid admitting fallibility, right? :-)
>  
> > < > > invulnerability, omnipotence, and grandiosity. (Although I 
> suppose 
> > > these may all be "jokes" too, for all I can tell with my 
> > apparently-
> > > limited sense of humor.) 
> > 
> > 
> > You have not sense of humor old man.
> 
> That may very well be. Or maybe you're sometimes just not very 
> funny, and/or are using so-called humor to hide something else. 
Who 
> knows? :-)
> 
> > > 
> > > If however you have been serious, I respectfully suggest that 
if 
> > you 
> > > can open up to the paradox of MMY's being both divine *and* 
> human, 
> > > perfect *and* flawed, that you can then allow yourself the 
same 
> > > luxury. 
> > > 
> > > And of course, I may be way off base, in which case you can 
tell 
> > me 
> > > to go take a flying leap. :-)>>>
> > 
> > A smiley face does NOT constitute a sense of humor. It doesn't 
> make 
> > you funn

[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- Rory Goff  wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In FairFairfieldLifeoyahoogroups, "LlunLlundrub
> >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -I take your hint. First crucify them then
> > > make them your 
> > > martyrs. That's the sign of a smart and
> > machMachiavelliangovernment. The 
> > > same one today as yesterday when CharCharlemagneed.
> > > You need to read 
> > > the ValiValislogy by Phillip K Dick, the Three
> > > Stigmata of Palmer 
> > > Eldridge, and a couple others. PKD PKD a natural
> > > paranoid from the 
> > > hippie era who saw the complete destruction of human
> > > volition in 
> > > empire, while holding out hope in the most ordinary
> > > and often squalid 
> > > of circumstances.
> > > 
> > > Thanks! I will try to check them out. I have heard
> > > great things about 
> > > PKD PKDr the years, but for some reason the timing
> > > wasn't right... :-)
> > 
> > PKD PKD a brilliant author. There is an openopeningne
> > in one of his books that I read years ago about a man
> > taking a rocket shuttle in a world where Germany and
> > Japan have won WWII. Does anyone remember the title.
> > When I read it it was one of those moments that a very
> > deep insight occurred regarding the TMO.TMO was seeing
> > that the TMO TMO like Hitler's Germany where the ideal
> > takes precprecedencer the actual. 
> 
> It was called "The Man in the High Castle."  And the entire
> book was written by the I Ching, with PKD throwning the
> coins.  :-)

machMachiavelliangovernment
CharCharlemagneed
ValiValislogy
PKD PKD
PKD PKDr
PKD PKD
openopeningne
the TMO TMO
precprecedencer 
throwning

where's that on the richter scale?   





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> You know, that's one of the claims I'm inclined to
> think may be accurate, based on my own experience.
> 
> Fairly shortly after I'd started TM, I attended a
> lecture at Lucis Trust at a friend's urging.  They
> began the program with a group meditation.  I 
> expected a group meditation with several hundred
> people would be pretty neat, based on my experience
> of having meditated with a group before TM advanced
> lectures.  (I hadn't at that point heard anything
> about only meditating with other TMers.)
> 
> So they began the meditation. I did TM; I don't know
> what others were doing, but I assume most of them
> weren't doing TM.  And I was disappointed, because
> it felt kind of chaotic, not at all like meditating
> with others at the TM center.
> 
> That's been my experience on several other occasions
> as well when I participated in a group non-TM
> meditation.

Yes, I believe I know what you mean, Judy -- I have experienced 
similar "disappointments" with large groups of non-TMers on 
occasion -- though I have experienced the same sort of quality in 
the dome at times, and also at times experienced a terrific 
coherence in small groups of non-TMers. So while not invalidating 
your experience in the slightest, I am not in a hurry to embrace the 
other pole either :-)




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

So they began the meditation. I did TM; I don't knowwhat others 
were doing, but I assume most of themweren't doing TM.  And I was 
disappointed, becauseit felt kind of chaotic, not at all like 
meditatingwith others at the TM center.That's been my experience on 
several other occasionsas well when I participated in a group 
non-TMmeditation.
 
-I've had different 
experiences than that at three larger group gatherings. One with Penor Rinpoche, 
one with Kunzang Dechen Lingpa and one with the Dalai Lama. Each time I found 
crystal clear larger-than-me transcendence with even a more dissolving and 
salient quality than I ever experienced in the domes. Leading me to believe that 
the Buddhist teachings amplified more areas of the mind than mere TM.   So 
to me the effect of groups of -seasoned- meditators still gives me hope. TM is 
not needed.  It's just a technique. Consciousness is the real 
-untechnique-.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

Yes, we agree; (Fundamentalist) Christianity 
is serving Bush precisely as it did the Roman empire -- if Atwill is 
correct, serving precisely as it was designed to do all along. 
Interestingly, there is a strong chance that George W. Bush (as well as his 
distant cousin John Kerry, as well as millions of other Americans of royal 
descent) are descendants of those same Flavians -- though this 
particular lineage is not proven thoroughly ATM to my satisfaction, 
anyhow. (It *has* been proven though that those who descend from 
England's Edward III are direct descendants of Muhammed!) 
:-)-So how's that for an Oedipus complex?!





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

PKD PKD a brilliant author. There is an openopeningnein one of his 
books that I read years ago about a mantaking a rocket shuttle in a world 
where Germany andJapan have won WWII. Does anyone remember the 
title.When I read it it was one of those moments that a verydeep insight 
occurred regarding the TMO.TMO was seeingthat the TMO TMO like Hitler's 
Germany where the idealtakes precprecedencer the actual. 
 
---The Man in the High 
Tower





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Peter Sutphen]

--- sparaig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
> [...]
> > It only makes sense if those people are practicing
> > other programs or techniques during their time in
> the
> > dome. The TMO, however, is punishing people who
> visit
> > other saints without any knowledge if they are
> > practicing any other techniques or programs.
> Basically
> > they are punishing people for "crimes" of thought.
> > People are thinking in a way that they don't like.
> 
> But what criteria would you use to ban someone? Can
> you tell, just by 
> looking, if someone is practicing TM or some
> technique given (or 
> modified) by some other teacher?

No, and that's the problem for the TMO. Better to just
ban everybody who has seen another spiritual teacher
to be "safe." I can sympathize with the TMO in a
certain way.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- Rory Goff  wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairFairfieldLifeoyahoogroups, "LlunLlundrub
>  wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -I take your hint. First crucify them then
> > make them your 
> > martyrs. That's the sign of a smart and
> machMachiavelliangovernment. The 
> > same one today as yesterday when CharCharlemagneed.
> > You need to read 
> > the ValiValislogy by Phillip K Dick, the Three
> > Stigmata of Palmer 
> > Eldridge, and a couple others. PKD PKD a natural
> > paranoid from the 
> > hippie era who saw the complete destruction of human
> > volition in 
> > empire, while holding out hope in the most ordinary
> > and often squalid 
> > of circumstances.
> > 
> > Thanks! I will try to check them out. I have heard
> > great things about 
> > PKD PKDr the years, but for some reason the timing
> > wasn't right... :-)
> 
> PKD PKD a brilliant author. There is an openopeningne
> in one of his books that I read years ago about a man
> taking a rocket shuttle in a world where Germany and
> Japan have won WWII. Does anyone remember the title.
> When I read it it was one of those moments that a very
> deep insight occurred regarding the TMO.TMO was seeing
> that the TMO TMO like Hitler's Germany where the ideal
> takes precprecedencer the actual. 

It was called "The Man in the High Castle."  And the entire
book was written by the I Ching, with PKD throwning the
coins.  :-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > But what criteria would you use to ban someone? Can you tell, just 
> > by looking, if someone is practicing TM or some technique given 
> > (or modified) by some other teacher?
> 
> No. And personally, I fail to see the big deal about the so-
> called "coherence" generated by everyone's practicing the same 
> technique.

You know, that's one of the claims I'm inclined to
think may be accurate, based on my own experience.

Fairly shortly after I'd started TM, I attended a
lecture at Lucis Trust at a friend's urging.  They
began the program with a group meditation.  I 
expected a group meditation with several hundred
people would be pretty neat, based on my experience
of having meditated with a group before TM advanced
lectures.  (I hadn't at that point heard anything
about only meditating with other TMers.)

So they began the meditation. I did TM; I don't know
what others were doing, but I assume most of them
weren't doing TM.  And I was disappointed, because
it felt kind of chaotic, not at all like meditating
with others at the TM center.

That's been my experience on several other occasions
as well when I participated in a group non-TM
meditation.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[markmeredith2002]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
> [...]
> > It only makes sense if those people are practicing
> > other programs or techniques during their time in the
> > dome. The TMO, however, is punishing people who visit
> > other saints without any knowledge if they are
> > practicing any other techniques or programs. Basically
> > they are punishing people for "crimes" of thought.
> > People are thinking in a way that they don't like.
> 
> But what criteria would you use to ban someone? Can you tell, just by 
> looking, if someone is practicing TM or some technique given (or 
> modified) by some other teacher?

You make it clear that only the dome program is to be done in the
dome, if you want to have people sign a pledge saying that, fine.  Why
the paranoia?  Do you think there are scores of people wanting to
sneak into the stuffy dome at specific times for 2 hrs to do other
techniques??  People who now do other techniques do them at home or
with a group that does those techniques.  What other technique would
you do?  You can't do yoga in the dome, you can't chant, you can't
stare at each other ala bondier, you can't do much of anything that
wouldn't stand out.  The fact is most people are sleeping there anyway.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
> [...]
> > It only makes sense if those people are practicing
> > other programs or techniques during their time in the
> > dome. The TMO, however, is punishing people who visit
> > other saints without any knowledge if they are
> > practicing any other techniques or programs. Basically
> > they are punishing people for "crimes" of thought.
> > People are thinking in a way that they don't like.
> 
> But what criteria would you use to ban someone? Can you tell, just 
by 
> looking, if someone is practicing TM or some technique given (or 
> modified) by some other teacher?

No. And personally, I fail to see the big deal about the so-
called "coherence" generated by everyone's practicing the same 
technique. But then, I am dubious about the so-called "purity of the 
teaching" as well. Shakti is not particularly exclusive; neither is 
Enlightenment. This whole argument seems a lot like just another way 
to keep the sheep in line, to me. I feel if someone wants to 
meditate in the dome, let 'em -- the domes and the TMO could use all 
the help they can get :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > -I take your hint. First crucify them then make them your 
> martyrs. That's the sign of a smart and machavellian government. The 
> same one today as yesterday when Charlemaine ruled. You need to read 
> the Valis Trilogy by Phillip K Dick, the Three Stigmata of Palmer 
> Eldridge, and a couple others. PKD was a natural paranoid from the 
> hippie era who saw the complete destruction of human volition in 
> empire, while holding out hope in the most ordinary and often squalid 
> of circumstances.
> 
> Thanks! I will try to check them out. I have heard great things about 
> PKD over the years, but for some reason the timing wasn't right... :-)

Quite a few books and shortstories have become movies: Do Androids 
dream of electric sheep? (Bladerunner), AI (I believe), and others.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[...]
> It only makes sense if those people are practicing
> other programs or techniques during their time in the
> dome. The TMO, however, is punishing people who visit
> other saints without any knowledge if they are
> practicing any other techniques or programs. Basically
> they are punishing people for "crimes" of thought.
> People are thinking in a way that they don't like.

But what criteria would you use to ban someone? Can you tell, just by 
looking, if someone is practicing TM or some technique given (or 
modified) by some other teacher?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Beyond all these differences, there are two features which 
are 
> > > > common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that 
> they 
> > > > claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and 
> feel 
> > > > threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they 
use 
> > > > political means to impose their version of the truth on all 
> > members 
> > > > of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over 
the 
> > > > world, are basically political movements which have a 
> religious 
> > > > imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> > > > circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to 
the 
> > > > service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!! >>>
> > > 
> > > No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any 
> > religion 
> > > or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be celebate. This is 
> a 
> > > fundamantal difference, and you may be too prejudiced to see it.
> > 
> > Unless their religion involves visiting some lady saint or 
> > something...>>>
> 
> That's true. That is one reason why I don't connect with TMO. On 
the 
> other hand , it woul dbe totally ridiculous if a bunch of people 
> were coming to the dome and practicing a totally different 
> technique, which you know is what would happen. 
> OffWorld

Of course. I don't object to the "banning," but to the way in which 
it is done.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Yes, I recall in '82 or '83 they tried to get employers to
> > fire people who had been seeing Robin Carlson too. AFAIK
> > Carlson was not giving out techniques, though I could be
> > mistaken here.
> 
> Actually, I believe you are mistaken here. I recall he taught
> something like "Technique[s] for the Discovery of Grace". I've never
> encountered a description, and I've never enquired about it. That was
> all happening when I first arrived in FF back in 1982.
 
Yes, that may well be so. It would be interesting if anyone here can 
tell us more about that. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> There have been other sources of irritation (letters to the 
editor in the Ledger, etc), but 
> basically they just don't want me talking to people on campus.
> 
Better give Socrates that ticket outta here -- we don't want him 
corruptin our youth :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> 
> > > To me, all of this points to a completely idealistic image of 
MMY 
> > > that is seriously threatened by other viewpoints implying 
> > > any "fallibility" or humanity on MMY's part
> > 
> > Man, you really lack insight. I have a less ideal image of MMY 
> > than you and half the people here. You just don't see it.
> 
> In my observation, some critics (of TM or
> most anything else) will respond to 
> a person who criticizes their critiques by
> accusing them of being a partisan supporter
> of the other side.
> 
> T'ain't necessarily so.  I and others are
> routinely painted as cultists on alt.m.t by
> He Who Must Not Be Named when we point out
> that a criticism of the TMO or MMY or TMers
> is inaccurate or unfair or illogical or
> exaggerated.
> 
> The notion that critics of others' criticisms
> must be blind True Believers may be a sincere
> misunderstanding on the part of the person who
> voices it (as I suspect is the case with Rory)
> or it may be (as, er, He Who Must Not Be Named
> himself pointed out on FFL not long ago) a
> thought-stopper intended to deflect attention
> from the substance of the criticism of the
> original critique and invalidate it without
> having to actually deal with it.
> 
> (I've been known to defend Dubya from what I
> thought was unfair criticism, and I yield to
> no one in my loathing for the little pr*ck.)
> 
> Some critics can be more cultishly protective
> of their own criticisms than those whom they
> are pleased to label as cultists.
> 
> Shades of gray, folks, shades of gray.

Point well taken, Judy. Let me rephrase: Offworld, on closer 
analysis it appears as if what sticks in your craw is the very 
possibility that MMY could ever lie. Would this be an accurate 
assessment of your position? 

I am *not* saying he did -- but I am open to the possibility, and 
wonder at what seems to be your vehement denial of that 
possibility  -- this looks like what I've called idealism or 
fundamentalism: the refusal to see or acknowledge the possibility of 
shades of gray. Everyone seems to have a bit of everything in 
themselves -- saint and swindler, truth-teller and liar. Brahman is 
paradox. The bottom line re MMY however is, I just don't know. At 
this point anyhow, it wouldn't affect my worldview either way, as 
far as I can see :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Offworld wrote:
> > > But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment.  
> >You others do not come up to that category. 
> 
> Here's your original quote: "I like how Rick posts this kind of 
thing. 
> It shows something at least. You are a lost-yogi in a grey and 
> directionless mind zone." 
> 
> Would you please clarify a) how this is a compliment to Rick, and b) 
> in what way we others do not "come up to that category?"
> 
> 
> --As if by not following the cultish mentality of the syncophant 
he cannot be a yogi.

If on the other hand Offworld is perhaps attempting to describe the 
onset of the Dark Night of the Soul and Brahman, he is right in saying 
this is a compliment, but wrong in saying none of the rest of us have 
been there, done THAT. :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I do not know if the Atwill hypothesis is correct, but I do 
like 
> to ask -- "Cui bono?" -- "Who benefits?" and generally find this 
leads 
> to useful ideas or insights in things as diverse as 9/11, the 
London 
> bombings (nicely timed to distract from the G8 issues and put the 
> focus back on terrorism), and Christianity itself, which nicely 
> channelled previously-rebellious, anti-Roman Messianic 
expectations 
> into pro-Roman, "quisling" Messianic fervor.
> 
> -In fact the very concept deserves much more consideration in 
light of the exact same empire of America in bed with fundamentalist 
Christian thought.  the irony is so apparent considering that the 
original Christians were slaves, former slaves, outcastes and their 
kith and kin, ie., all those who were not valued by the Roman 
empire. 

Not sure this is entirely true -- Atwill points out a number of 
Flavians mentioned by name in the New Testament as "believers." 
Xianity may well have been the "pet religion" of the Flavians, just 
as other emperors had created other religions to keep the masses in 
line. Of course, if all this is true, the chances are a large number 
of the Flavians were probably "in on the joke" perpetuated by their 
adopted son Josephus (whom some have identified as the Apostle Paul 
himself!).

>Then what happened?  The Empire moved to incorporate the myth and 
>the disenfranchised peoples. Now what is happening, the myth and 
disenfranchised peoples are running the whole show.  It's a real 
turnabout, but not really.  Those Christians who are siding with 
Bush are the dupes of the entire sordid and inconceivably huge 
conspiratorial Roman motion to quell dissent and discontent over 
1700 years ago. Only now has it finally really worked. The people 
call the Church and the Government their saviors.

Yes, we agree; (Fundamentalist) Christianity is serving Bush 
precisely as it did the Roman empire -- if Atwill is correct, 
serving precisely as it was designed to do all along. Interestingly, 
there is a strong chance that George W. Bush (as well as his distant 
cousin John Kerry, as well as millions of other Americans of royal 
descent) are descendants of those same Flavians -- though this 
particular lineage is not proven thoroughly ATM to my satisfaction, 
anyhow. (It *has* been proven though that those who descend from 
England's Edward III are direct descendants of Muhammed!) :-)





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Peter Sutphen]

--- Rory Goff  wrote:

> --- In FairFairfieldLifeoyahoogroups, "LlunLlundrub
 wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > -I take your hint. First crucify them then
> make them your 
> martyrs. That's the sign of a smart and
machMachiavelliangovernment. The 
> same one today as yesterday when CharCharlemagneed.
> You need to read 
> the ValiValislogy by Phillip K Dick, the Three
> Stigmata of Palmer 
> Eldridge, and a couple others. PKD PKD a natural
> paranoid from the 
> hippie era who saw the complete destruction of human
> volition in 
> empire, while holding out hope in the most ordinary
> and often squalid 
> of circumstances.
> 
> Thanks! I will try to check them out. I have heard
> great things about 
> PKD PKDr the years, but for some reason the timing
> wasn't right... :-)

PKD PKD a brilliant author. There is an openopeningne
in one of his books that I read years ago about a man
taking a rocket shuttle in a world where Germany and
Japan have won WWII. Does anyone remember the title.
When I read it it was one of those moments that a very
deep insight occurred regarding the TMO.TMO was seeing
that the TMO TMO like Hitler's Germany where the ideal
takes precprecedencer the actual. 




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Yes, I recall in '82 or '83 they tried to get employers to
> fire people who had been seeing Robin Carlson too. AFAIK
> Carlson was not giving out techniques, though I could be
> mistaken here.

Actually, I believe you are mistaken here. I recall he taught
something like "Technique[s] for the Discovery of Grace". I've never
encountered a description, and I've never enquired about it. That was
all happening when I first arrived in FF back in 1982.

Alex




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[L B Shriver]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Jul 20, 2005, at 7:54 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> 
> > And, then there's L B Shriver; it wasn't enough to banish him from
> > campus, so they tried to pressure his employer to fire him. And, they
> > claim to not be a cult? Quelle folie!
> 
> My god is this true? LB?
> 
> Why were you "banned" LB?



I was "excommunicated" in 1994 for publishing a paper called Survival in 
Paradise, in 
which I raised questions (and offered opinions) regarding various aspects of 
the 
Movement's policies and The Fairfield Experience.

My exit interview was conducted on Guru Purnamah, coincidentally on the same 
day they 
announced that the dome fees were being tripled, and within a few hours of the 
last big 
chunk of a passing comet smashing into Jupiter.

I was banned from campus three years ago. The letter they sent claimed that I 
had been 
banned from campus in 1994, which was of course not true. When I provided the 
documentation which showed them to be in error, they basically just said, 
"Well, we don't 
know about that, but if you come on campus we'll have you arrested."

I think the primary objection was that I had been practicing martial arts in 
the student 
union basement. In fact, that had been my practice for over a quarter of a 
century, but I 
think that someone who normally spent no time there happened to see me and to 
complain to the administration.

There have been other sources of irritation (letters to the editor in the 
Ledger, etc), but 
basically they just don't want me talking to people on campus.

L B S




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > > Rory, that's what I asked you if you were 
> > > referring to above.
> > > 
> > > I posted that response to Barry's post, but I
> > > didn't write the words in it about "cultist"
> > > being a thought-stopper.  I was quoting from
> > > another FFL post that was made awhile back.
> > > 
> > > Who do you think might have written that 
> > > earlier post I was quoting?  Take a wild
> > > guess...
> > 
> > Yeah, it finally sank in, Judy; thanks for the clarification :-)
> 
> Big difference between an organization being a cult
> and someone within that organization acting like a 
> cultist.  I don't think TM is a cult, but in the last week
> we've seen a great number of posts here by people
> who think like cultists.

Non sequitur.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:

> > To me, all of this points to a completely idealistic image of MMY 
> > that is seriously threatened by other viewpoints implying 
> > any "fallibility" or humanity on MMY's part
> 
> Man, you really lack insight. I have a less ideal image of MMY 
> than you and half the people here. You just don't see it.

In my observation, some critics (of TM or
most anything else) will respond to 
a person who criticizes their critiques by
accusing them of being a partisan supporter
of the other side.

T'ain't necessarily so.  I and others are
routinely painted as cultists on alt.m.t by
He Who Must Not Be Named when we point out
that a criticism of the TMO or MMY or TMers
is inaccurate or unfair or illogical or
exaggerated.

The notion that critics of others' criticisms
must be blind True Believers may be a sincere
misunderstanding on the part of the person who
voices it (as I suspect is the case with Rory)
or it may be (as, er, He Who Must Not Be Named
himself pointed out on FFL not long ago) a
thought-stopper intended to deflect attention
from the substance of the criticism of the
original critique and invalidate it without
having to actually deal with it.

(I've been known to defend Dubya from what I
thought was unfair criticism, and I yield to
no one in my loathing for the little pr*ck.)

Some critics can be more cultishly protective
of their own criticisms than those whom they
are pleased to label as cultists.

Shades of gray, folks, shades of gray.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

Offworld wrote:> > 
But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment.  >You 
others do not come up to that category. Here's your original quote: "I 
like how Rick posts this kind of thing. It shows something at least. You are 
a lost-yogi in a grey and directionless mind zone." Would you please 
clarify a) how this is a compliment to Rick, and b) in what way we others do 
not "come up to that category?"--As if by not following the 
cultish mentality of the syncophant he cannot be a yogi.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[TurquoiseB]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Rory, that's what I asked you if you were 
> > referring to above.
> > 
> > I posted that response to Barry's post, but I
> > didn't write the words in it about "cultist"
> > being a thought-stopper.  I was quoting from
> > another FFL post that was made awhile back.
> > 
> > Who do you think might have written that 
> > earlier post I was quoting?  Take a wild
> > guess...
> 
> Yeah, it finally sank in, Judy; thanks for the clarification :-)

Big difference between an organization being a cult
and someone within that organization acting like a 
cultist.  I don't think TM is a cult, but in the last week
we've seen a great number of posts here by people
who think like cultists.  







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

 
Yes, I do not know if the Atwill hypothesis is correct, but I do 
like to ask -- "Cui bono?" -- "Who benefits?" and generally find this leads 
to useful ideas or insights in things as diverse as 9/11, the London 
bombings (nicely timed to distract from the G8 issues and put the focus 
back on terrorism), and Christianity itself, which nicely channelled 
previously-rebellious, anti-Roman Messianic expectations into pro-Roman, 
"quisling" Messianic fervor.-In fact the very concept deserves much 
more consideration in light of the exact same empire of America in bed with 
fundamentalist Christian thought.  the irony is so apparent considering 
that the original Christians were slaves, former slaves, outcastes and their 
kith and kin, ie., all those who were not valued by the Roman empire. Then what 
happened?  The Empire moved to incorporate the myth and the disenfranchised 
peoples. Now what is happening, the myth and disenfranchised peoples are running 
the whole show.  It's a real turnabout, but not really.  Those 
Christians who are siding with Bush are the dupes of the entire sordid and 
inconceivably huge conspiratorial Roman motion to quell dissent and discontent 
over 1700 years ago. Only now has it finally really worked. The people call the 
Church and the Government their saviors. 
 
 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[L B Shriver]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that they 
> claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and feel 
> threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> political means to impose their version of the truth on all members 
> of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> world, are basically political movements which have a religious 
> imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!!



An historian who studied the relationship between politics and religion and 
published a 
book about it within the past few years (sorry, details forgotten) observed 
that when 
politics and religion get together, they both suffer—but religion suffers the 
most.

L B S




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Offworld wrote:
> > > But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment.  
> >You others do not come up to that category. 
> 
> Here's your original quote: "I like how Rick posts this kind of 
thing. 
> It shows something at least. You are a lost-yogi in a grey and 
> directionless mind zone." 
> 
> Would you please clarify a) how this is a compliment to Rick, and b) 
> in what way we others do not "come up to that category?"

And yet more interesting to me: Have you yourself attained this high 
state, or is it something to which you yet aspire?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

Offworld wrote:
> > But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment.  
>You others do not come up to that category. 

Here's your original quote: "I like how Rick posts this kind of thing. 
It shows something at least. You are a lost-yogi in a grey and 
directionless mind zone." 

Would you please clarify a) how this is a compliment to Rick, and b) 
in what way we others do not "come up to that category?"
 




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Vaj]

On Jul 20, 2005, at 8:41 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:

>
> He got in hot water with the TMO for publishing "Survival in
> Paradise". There is a PDF copy of one issue in the "FFL and Fairfield
> Community" folder of the FFL files archive.

Thanks Alex, I look forward to reading it.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> -I take your hint. First crucify them then make them your 
martyrs. That's the sign of a smart and machavellian government. The 
same one today as yesterday when Charlemaine ruled. You need to read 
the Valis Trilogy by Phillip K Dick, the Three Stigmata of Palmer 
Eldridge, and a couple others. PKD was a natural paranoid from the 
hippie era who saw the complete destruction of human volition in 
empire, while holding out hope in the most ordinary and often squalid 
of circumstances.

Thanks! I will try to check them out. I have heard great things about 
PKD over the years, but for some reason the timing wasn't right... :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rory, that's what I asked you if you were 
> referring to above.
> 
> I posted that response to Barry's post, but I
> didn't write the words in it about "cultist"
> being a thought-stopper.  I was quoting from
> another FFL post that was made awhile back.
> 
> Who do you think might have written that 
> earlier post I was quoting?  Take a wild
> guess...

Yeah, it finally sank in, Judy; thanks for the clarification :-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I don't know if any edicts from on high have been issued WRT Saniel
> Bonder and Waking Down. It's been my observation that people 
involved
> in WD who also maintain involvement with the TMO keep their
> involvement in WD very low key. And, the rules about 
confidentiality
> at WD satsangs are repeated frequently to ensure their privacy. 
> 
> The justification for revoking dome badges of people who see Amma 
is
> that she teaches meditation techniques, and the TMO wants to ensure
> that only TM be practiced in the domes. Since Waking Down doesn't
> involve any techniques, it shouldn't be a problem. But, I have no
> doubt that the apparatchiks running the show on campus could easily
> create an excuse why WDers should also be banished from the domes.
> After all, when Susie Niedermeyer was seen at Ammachi's first visit
> to Iowa, not only was she booted from the dome, she was prohibited
> from participating in any campus musical activities as well. Can't
> have any coherence-destroying infidel vibes on campus, don'tcha 
know.
> And, then there's L B Shriver; it wasn't enough to banish him from
> campus, so they tried to pressure his employer to fire him. And, 
they
> claim to not be a cult? Quelle folie!

Yes, I recall in '82 or '83 they tried to get employers to fire 
people who had been seeing Robin Carlson too. AFAIK Carlson was not 
giving out techniques, though I could be mistaken here.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

Yes, I do not know if the Atwill hypothesis is 
correct, but I do like to ask -- "Cui bono?" -- "Who benefits?" and 
generally find this leads to useful ideas or insights in things as diverse 
as 9/11, the London bombings (nicely timed to distract from the G8 issues 
and put the focus back on terrorism), and Christianity itself, which nicely 
channelled previously-rebellious, anti-Roman Messianic expectations into 
pro-Roman, "quisling" Messianic fervor.-I take your hint. First 
crucify them then make them your martyrs. That's the sign of a smart and 
machavellian government. The same one today as yesterday when Charlemaine ruled. 
You need to read the Valis Trilogy by Phillip K Dick, the Three Stigmata of 
Palmer Eldridge, and a couple others. PKD was a natural paranoid from the hippie 
era who saw the complete destruction of human volition in empire, while holding 
out hope in the most ordinary and often squalid of circumstances.  





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> You need to go up thread to the original post to get it, and also 
> realise that I had whispered the question a couple of times before 
> with no response.

I *do* realize that. I still don't see why repeating the same 
question over and over (and shouting it at the end when no one 
responds) is particularly funny, sorry. Petulantly immature, maybe, 
but not funny. 

> > It is other statements you have made over time that have smelled 
> of 
> > TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism to me: some 
recent 
> > examples would be your denouncing Rick as a lost yogi, >
> 
> But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment. 

Gee, I wonder if Rick felt complimented by your post! Maybe you 
should follow your own advice and go back and read it again. 

>You 
> others do not come up to that category.

See? Another sidestep and insult. Humor? Or false-humor to mask 
anger, aggression, and denial? Don't know; don't really care. Just 
not particularly funny, IMO. 
 
> < > logic, dismissing his evidence and experience out-of-hand 
> > because "the accusers are anonymous," >>>
> 
> Anonymous is what you call non-evidence you idiot.

No, "you idiot;" anonymous is what *you* call non-evidence. Rick's 
evidence smells generally right to me (and I would guess to most 
other mature minds); your rationalizations and denials do not.

> < > opinion piece on TMO and Amma, and accusing MMY's critics of 
short-
> > term thinking (a classic cult maneuver is to justify short-term 
> > abuse in the name of lofty long-term ideals; i.e., "ends-justify-
> > means" enabling). >>>
> 
> Wrong. It was a highly prejudiced piece which you are too 
prejudiced 
> to see. I would never write such a prejudiced thing about any 
group 
> as a reporter.

See? You flat-out dismiss our point-of-view as "wrong" 
and "prejudiced." Trademark fundamentalist thinking. What makes you 
think we are prejudiced? Do you know the definition of prejudice? It 
means something along the lines of judging before one has all the 
facts. Many of us have experienced MMY and the TMO first-hand over a 
period of many years. Many of us may have more knowledge here than 
you do. Many of us are incredibly grateful to MMY for the divine 
enlightenment he has shown us, *and* do not flinch from seeing his 
human narcissism and fallibility. 
 
> > To me, all of this points to a completely idealistic image of 
MMY 
> > that is seriously threatened by other viewpoints implying 
> > any "fallibility" or humanity on MMY's part, which (it seems to 
> me) 
> 
> 
> Man , you really lack insight. I have a less ideal image of MMY 
than 
> you and half the people here. You just don't see it.

I am not saying you toe the TMO line in every respect because you 
certainly don't.  In what way precisely is your image of MMY less 
ideal than mine and half the people here?

> > you often attempt to deny through attack, ridicule, insult, and 
so 
> > on. >>>
> 
> Wow, you are making things up.
> I don't see you saying this to Llundrub, the king of constant 
> insults. This again shows your prejudice. 

Llundrub is not the point here; you are. I have found 
Llundrub's "insults" to be generally based in truth. Yours almost 
never are. (If I were he, by the way, I would have apologized for 
*nothing* he said to either Vaj or to you -- it was all on-target, 
if undiplomatically phrased.)

> Read those two sentances again.

Why? I do not find them to be any more pregnant with meaning on the 
second read than the first. Again, they just look like more of your 
classic ego-tactics: flailing around, attacking, and sidestepping. 
Anything to avoid admitting fallibility, right? :-)
 
> < > invulnerability, omnipotence, and grandiosity. (Although I 
suppose 
> > these may all be "jokes" too, for all I can tell with my 
> apparently-
> > limited sense of humor.) 
> 
> 
> You have not sense of humor old man.

That may very well be. Or maybe you're sometimes just not very 
funny, and/or are using so-called humor to hide something else. Who 
knows? :-)

> > 
> > If however you have been serious, I respectfully suggest that if 
> you 
> > can open up to the paradox of MMY's being both divine *and* 
human, 
> > perfect *and* flawed, that you can then allow yourself the same 
> > luxury. 
> > 
> > And of course, I may be way off base, in which case you can tell 
> me 
> > to go take a flying leap. :-)>>>
> 
> A smiley face does NOT constitute a sense of humor. It doesn't 
make 
> you funny, as you and Alex seem to think it will do for you.

No, it is generally meant to constitute friendliness, to try to 
convey the light-heartedness (not humor per se, other than good 
humor) in which I am conveying these words. Sometimes IMO the 
written word comes across as far too serious without a smile. :-)

But again, if this is your polite way of telling me to go take a 
flying leap, consider it done :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> Judy wrote:
> > > 
> > > Didn't you see the quotes around it, and
> > > the Yahoo message number at the end?
> > > 
> > > I didn't write it.  I was quoting it.
> > > 
> > > Guess who wrote it?
> > 
> > No, Judy, I was referring to your response, where you said 
> > something to the effect that it wasn't very nice to call someone 
> > a cultist -- that it was thought-stopper. So I was apologizing to 
> > you for going ahead and invoking the c-word anyway :-)
> 
> *lol* Oh, I SEE -- the whole thought-stopper thing was a quote of 
> *Barry's*! Sorry, yeah, I completely missed that :-) Dang, this
> just gets funnier and funnier :-)

(Excuse immediately previous post--I hadn't read
this one yet.)

Yeah, I thought it was pretty amusing!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > It is other statements you have made over time that have 
> > > smelled of TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism
> > > to me
> > 
> > Er, Rory, are you referring to a recent
> > response of mine to a post of Barry's in
> > which he accused someone of cultism, by
> > any chance?
> > 
> > Didn't you see the quotes around it, and
> > the Yahoo message number at the end?
> > 
> > I didn't write it.  I was quoting it.
> > 
> > Guess who wrote it?
> 
> No, Judy, I was referring to your response, where you said 
> something to the effect that it wasn't very nice to call someone a 
> cultist -- that it was thought-stopper.

Rory, that's what I asked you if you were 
referring to above.

I posted that response to Barry's post, but I
didn't write the words in it about "cultist"
being a thought-stopper.  I was quoting from
another FFL post that was made awhile back.

Who do you think might have written that 
earlier post I was quoting?  Take a wild
guess...




 So I was apologizing to you for going 
> ahead and invoking the c-word anyway :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> -I've been thinking a good bit about this sort of thing lately. 
It's clear that people make mistakes regularly. Well, what if Jesus, 
if indeed he even existed, was really just a footnote in history, just 
like say, you or I, that is, not more than the average Joe, but who 
got blown waa out of proportion and then used as a political force 
majeure. One brick building upon another and then what? World religion 
universalis. I mean, Catholicism makes absolutely no sense as if it 
was pieced together out of different fabrics like patchwork.

Yes, I do not know if the Atwill hypothesis is correct, but I do like 
to ask -- "Cui bono?" -- "Who benefits?" and generally find this leads 
to useful ideas or insights in things as diverse as 9/11, the London 
bombings (nicely timed to distract from the G8 issues and put the 
focus back on terrorism), and Christianity itself, which nicely 
channelled previously-rebellious, anti-Roman Messianic expectations 
into pro-Roman, "quisling" Messianic fervor.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Jul 20, 2005, at 7:54 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> 
> > And, then there's L B Shriver; it wasn't enough to banish
> > him from campus, so they tried to pressure his employer to
> > fire him. And, they claim to not be a cult? Quelle folie!
> 
> My god is this true? LB?
>
> Why were you "banned" LB?

I'll let L B answer these questions for himself, but I can direct
your attention to some relevant information.

He got in hot water with the TMO for publishing "Survival in
Paradise". There is a PDF copy of one issue in the "FFL and Fairfield
Community" folder of the FFL files archive. 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files

Alex




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

> Unless their religion involves visiting some 
lady saint or > something...>>>That's true. That is one 
reason why I don't connect with TMO. On the other hand , it woul dbe totally 
ridiculous if a bunch of people were coming to the dome and practicing a 
totally different technique, which you know is what would happen. 
OffWorldWhen was it y0u discovered that you didn't connect 
to the MOvement, after you graduated MIU, or after you graduated MUM?





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SPONSORED LINKS
  
  
  

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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Probably right. The bannig of Amma people and Pundiji people
> from Dome and others is not justifiable by logic ( but is 
> still a good idea :-)

"A smiley face does NOT constitute a sense of humor. It doesn't make
you funny..."

-- OffWorld




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Vaj]

On Jul 20, 2005, at 7:54 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:

> And, then there's L B Shriver; it wasn't enough to banish him from
> campus, so they tried to pressure his employer to fire him. And, they
> claim to not be a cult? Quelle folie!

My god is this true? LB?

Why were you "banned" LB?



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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A smiley face does NOT constitute a sense of humor. It
> doesn't make you funny, as you and Alex seem to think
> it will do for you.

For the record, I only use smilies on the rarest of occasions, and
when I do, it's always a very conscious decision. I don't recall
using any on FFL in recent history. So, could you please either point
out where I've attempted to be funny with the use of smilies or
retract the accusation. Thanks.

Alex




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[markmeredith2002]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> > 
> > It only makes sense if those people are practicing
> > other programs or techniques during their time in the
> > dome. >>>
> 
> That is what I mean't, and it is the reason they do it.
> OffWorld

It is not the reason they do it.  You don't learn any techniques at
ammas program (and contrary to your wild assertion, you don't become 
sort of devotee either by receiving darshan) and the capital knows it
as many people have told them so and still gotten banned.  They do it
primary to create fear and keep people under control.  Also Wallace's
statement about a coke salesman drinking pepsi was honest, except
99.9% of tm teachers in fairfield are not actively teaching or
representing the tmo in any way and the competition the tmo is afraid
of is the competition for donation dollars.  Also in his editorial on
this subject in the Weekly Reader a few yrs ago, Hagelin was also
honest in stating his pompously fascist belief that MUM has a
"parental responsibility" in protecting people from getting involved
in non-Maharishi approved programs.  







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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hey Alex, I know the TMO will excommunicate (teachers at 
> least) for seeing Amma or Karunamayi and so on. How do
> they feel about Saniel Bonder?

I don't know if any edicts from on high have been issued WRT Saniel
Bonder and Waking Down. It's been my observation that people involved
in WD who also maintain involvement with the TMO keep their
involvement in WD very low key. And, the rules about confidentiality
at WD satsangs are repeated frequently to ensure their privacy. 

The justification for revoking dome badges of people who see Amma is
that she teaches meditation techniques, and the TMO wants to ensure
that only TM be practiced in the domes. Since Waking Down doesn't
involve any techniques, it shouldn't be a problem. But, I have no
doubt that the apparatchiks running the show on campus could easily
create an excuse why WDers should also be banished from the domes.
After all, when Susie Niedermeyer was seen at Ammachi's first visit
to Iowa, not only was she booted from the dome, she was prohibited
from participating in any campus musical activities as well. Can't
have any coherence-destroying infidel vibes on campus, don'tcha know.
And, then there's L B Shriver; it wasn't enough to banish him from
campus, so they tried to pressure his employer to fire him. And, they
claim to not be a cult? Quelle folie!

Alex




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> --- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> > off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > > No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can
> > practice any 
> > religion 
> > > > or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be
> > celebate. This is a 
> > > > fundamantal difference, and you may be too
> > prejudiced to see it.
> > > 
> > > Offworld, if you only knew how unthinkingly
> > prejudiced this canned 
> > > response sounds to anyone who has experienced the
> > TMO's actual 
> > > attitude to "competition," you would think twice
> > before repeating 
> > > it...! >>>
> > 
> > Probably right. The bannig of Amma people and
> > Pundiji people from Dome 
> > and others is not justifiable by logic ( but is
> > still a good idea :-)
> > OffWorld
> 
> It only makes sense if those people are practicing
> other programs or techniques during their time in the
> dome. >>>

That is what I mean't, and it is the reason they do it.
OffWorld




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Peter Sutphen]

--- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can
> practice any 
> religion 
> > > or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be
> celebate. This is a 
> > > fundamantal difference, and you may be too
> prejudiced to see it.
> > 
> > Offworld, if you only knew how unthinkingly
> prejudiced this canned 
> > response sounds to anyone who has experienced the
> TMO's actual 
> > attitude to "competition," you would think twice
> before repeating 
> > it...! >>>
> 
> Probably right. The bannig of Amma people and
> Pundiji people from Dome 
> and others is not justifiable by logic ( but is
> still a good idea :-)
> OffWorld

It only makes sense if those people are practicing
other programs or techniques during their time in the
dome. The TMO, however, is punishing people who visit
other saints without any knowledge if they are
practicing any other techniques or programs. Basically
they are punishing people for "crimes" of thought.
People are thinking in a way that they don't like.




> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
>  
> 
> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> > > common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that 
they 
> > > claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and 
feel 
> > > threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> > > political means to impose their version of the truth on all 
> members 
> > > of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> > > world, are basically political movements which have a 
religious 
> > > imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> > > circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> > > service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!! >>>
> > 
> > No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any 
> religion 
> > or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be celebate. This is 
a 
> > fundamantal difference, and you may be too prejudiced to see it.
> 
> Unless their religion involves visiting some lady saint or 
> something...>>>

That's true. That is one reason why I don't connect with TMO. On the 
other hand , it woul dbe totally ridiculous if a bunch of people 
were coming to the dome and practicing a totally different 
technique, which you know is what would happen. 
OffWorld




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any 
religion 
> > or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be celebate. This is a 
> > fundamantal difference, and you may be too prejudiced to see it.
> 
> Offworld, if you only knew how unthinkingly prejudiced this canned 
> response sounds to anyone who has experienced the TMO's actual 
> attitude to "competition," you would think twice before repeating 
> it...! >>>

Probably right. The bannig of Amma people and Pundiji people from Dome 
and others is not justifiable by logic ( but is still a good idea :-)
OffWorld




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Jaizues ! You harp on and on and on about a joke that I made and 
> > call me a fundamentalist because of a joke that I made. Some 
sense 
> > of humor you got there bud.
> 
> No, Offworld, it was not your "joke," though you're right, I 
> certainly didn't see any humor there! 

You need to go up thread to the original post to get it, and also 
realise that I had whispered the question a couple of times before 
with no response.

> It is other statements you have made over time that have smelled 
of 
> TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism to me: some recent 
> examples would be your denouncing Rick as a lost yogi, >

But Rick is a lost Yogi, which by the way is a huge comliment. You 
others do not come up to that category.

< logic, dismissing his evidence and experience out-of-hand 
> because "the accusers are anonymous," >>>

Anonymous is what you call non-evidence you idiot.


< opinion piece on TMO and Amma, and accusing MMY's critics of short-
> term thinking (a classic cult maneuver is to justify short-term 
> abuse in the name of lofty long-term ideals; i.e., "ends-justify-
> means" enabling). >>>

Wrong. It was a highly prejudiced piece which you are too prejudiced 
to see. I would never write such a prejudiced thing about any group 
as a reporter.

> 
> To me, all of this points to a completely idealistic image of MMY 
> that is seriously threatened by other viewpoints implying 
> any "fallibility" or humanity on MMY's part, which (it seems to 
me) 


Man , you really lack insight. I have a less ideal image of MMY than 
you and half the people here. You just don't see it.

> you often attempt to deny through attack, ridicule, insult, and so 
> on. >>>

Wow, you are making things up.
I don't see you saying this to Llundrub, the king of constant 
insults. This again shows your prejudice. 
Read those two sentances again.


< invulnerability, omnipotence, and grandiosity. (Although I suppose 
> these may all be "jokes" too, for all I can tell with my 
apparently-
> limited sense of humor.) 


You have not sense of humor old man.


> 
> If however you have been serious, I respectfully suggest that if 
you 
> can open up to the paradox of MMY's being both divine *and* human, 
> perfect *and* flawed, that you can then allow yourself the same 
> luxury. 
> 
> And of course, I may be way off base, in which case you can tell 
me 
> to go take a flying leap. :-)>>>

A smiley face does NOT constitute a sense of humor. It doesn't make 
you funny, as you and Alex seem to think it will do for you.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

Yes, actually Atwill claims Jesus himself was an 
invention of the Flavians, who included a lot of in-jokes in the gospel 
about the "Son of Man coming in the lifetime of this generation" being 
Titus and his family, ca. 70 AD. Hence this whole "our name is legion" 
episode was a joking reference to the roman legions' evicting the jewish 
rebels in 
Gadara...-I've been thinking a good bit about this sort of thing 
lately. It's clear that people make mistakes regularly. Well, what if Jesus, if 
indeed he even existed, was really just a footnote in history, just like say, 
you or I, that is, not more than the average Joe, but who got blown waa out 
of proportion and then used as a political force majeure. One brick building 
upon another and then what? World religion universalis. I mean, Catholicism 
makes absolutely no sense as if it was pieced together out of different fabrics 
like patchwork. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
Judy wrote:
> > 
> > Didn't you see the quotes around it, and
> > the Yahoo message number at the end?
> > 
> > I didn't write it.  I was quoting it.
> > 
> > Guess who wrote it?
> 
> No, Judy, I was referring to your response, where you said something 
> to the effect that it wasn't very nice to call someone a cultist -- 
> that it was thought-stopper. So I was apologizing to you for going 
> ahead and invoking the c-word anyway :-)

*lol* Oh, I SEE -- the whole thought-stopper thing was a quote of 
*Barry's*! Sorry, yeah, I completely missed that :-) Dang, this just 
gets funnier and funnier :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> > common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that they 
> > claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and feel 
> > threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> > political means to impose their version of the truth on all 
members 
> > of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> > world, are basically political movements which have a religious 
> > imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> > circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> > service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!! >>>
> 
> No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any 
religion 
> or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be celebate. This is a 
> fundamantal difference, and you may be too prejudiced to see it.

Unless their religion involves visiting some lady saint or 
something...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > It is other statements you have made over time that have smelled 
of 
> > TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism to me
> 
> Er, Rory, are you referring to a recent
> response of mine to a post of Barry's in
> which he accused someone of cultism, by
> any chance?
> 
> Didn't you see the quotes around it, and
> the Yahoo message number at the end?
> 
> I didn't write it.  I was quoting it.
> 
> Guess who wrote it?

No, Judy, I was referring to your response, where you said something 
to the effect that it wasn't very nice to call someone a cultist -- 
that it was thought-stopper. So I was apologizing to you for going 
ahead and invoking the c-word anyway :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any religion 
> or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be celebate. This is a 
> fundamantal difference, and you may be too prejudiced to see it.

Offworld, if you only knew how unthinkingly prejudiced this canned 
response sounds to anyone who has experienced the TMO's actual 
attitude to "competition," you would think twice before repeating 
it...!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
, I know the TMO will excommunicate (teachers at least) for 
> seeing Amma or Karunamayi and so on. 

In Fairfield while at a pundit's Durga-puja I was even told that the 
TMO would revoke your badge if they caught you there! (I have to say, 
that puja was terrific, extremely enlivening.) This really astonished 
me, as I have not had any dealings with the TMO for the last 23 years, 
and had completely forgotten that miasm of conformist fear they 
regularly instilled in FF.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> It is other statements you have made over time that have smelled of 
> TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism to me

Er, Rory, are you referring to a recent
response of mine to a post of Barry's in
which he accused someone of cultism, by
any chance?

Didn't you see the quotes around it, and
the Yahoo message number at the end?

I didn't write it.  I was quoting it.

Guess who wrote it?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> > > common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that 
they 
> > > claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and 
feel 
> > > threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> > > political means to impose their version of the truth on all
> members 
> > > of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> > > world, are basically political movements which have a 
religious 
> > > imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> > > circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> > > service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!! >>>
> > 
> > No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any
> > religion or non-religion they want
> 
> Provided, of course, it's not anything remotely Hindu/Vedic, which 
is
> off-the-program and punishable by banishment from the domes.
> 
Hey Alex, I know the TMO will excommunicate (teachers at least) for 
seeing Amma or Karunamayi and so on. How do they feel about Saniel 
Bonder?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> > > common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that 
they 
> > > claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and 
feel 
> > > threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> > > political means to impose their version of the truth on all
> members 
> > > of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> > > world, are basically political movements which have a 
religious 
> > > imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> > > circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> > > service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!!
> > 
> > Yes, it appears most of us here have aligned ourselves (at
> > various times and to various degrees) with some classic,
> > grade- A "fundamentalists" -- :-)
> 
> Wake Down or die, infidel!
> 
> Alex

*lol* "There is no god but God, and Saniel is His prophet!" :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > But we are multifold, and we NEED a planet now !
> > > OffWorldBeings
> > 
> > *lol* "Our name is legion"...? 
> > 
> > BTW, Joseph Atwill has an interesting take on this New Testament 
> > phrase. This is the author who says in "Caesar's Messiah" that 
the 
> > Flavians created Christianity shortly after Jesus' "end of the 
> world" 
> > (Rome's destruction of Jerusalem). He notes that Jesus' exorcism 
of 
> > the demons whose "name was legion" >>>
> 
> He didn't exorcise us, we just went to the Pleides system for our 
> holdays.

Yes, actually Atwill claims Jesus himself was an invention of the 
Flavians, who included a lot of in-jokes in the gospel about 
the "Son of Man coming in the lifetime of this generation" being 
Titus and his family, ca. 70 AD. Hence this whole "our name is 
legion" episode was a joking reference to the roman legions' 
evicting the jewish rebels in Gadara...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jaizues ! You harp on and on and on about a joke that I made and 
> call me a fundamentalist because of a joke that I made. Some sense 
> of humor you got there bud.

No, Offworld, it was not your "joke," though you're right, I 
certainly didn't see any humor there! Mea culpa, although I 
generally do enjoy the high-spirited flavor of many of your posts. 

It is other statements you have made over time that have smelled of 
TM-fundamentalism or even (sorry, Judy) cultism to me: some recent 
examples would be your denouncing Rick as a lost yogi, maligning his 
logic, dismissing his evidence and experience out-of-hand 
because "the accusers are anonymous," dismissing the reporter's 
opinion piece on TMO and Amma, and accusing MMY's critics of short-
term thinking (a classic cult maneuver is to justify short-term 
abuse in the name of lofty long-term ideals; i.e., "ends-justify-
means" enabling). 

To me, all of this points to a completely idealistic image of MMY 
that is seriously threatened by other viewpoints implying 
any "fallibility" or humanity on MMY's part, which (it seems to me) 
you often attempt to deny through attack, ridicule, insult, and so 
on. In like manner, you seem to need to cling to a self-image of 
invulnerability, omnipotence, and grandiosity. (Although I suppose 
these may all be "jokes" too, for all I can tell with my apparently-
limited sense of humor.) 

If however you have been serious, I respectfully suggest that if you 
can open up to the paradox of MMY's being both divine *and* human, 
perfect *and* flawed, that you can then allow yourself the same 
luxury. 

And of course, I may be way off base, in which case you can tell me 
to go take a flying leap. :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> > common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that they 
> > claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and feel 
> > threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> > political means to impose their version of the truth on all
members 
> > of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> > world, are basically political movements which have a religious 
> > imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> > circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> > service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!! >>>
> 
> No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any
> religion or non-religion they want

Provided, of course, it's not anything remotely Hindu/Vedic, which is
off-the-program and punishable by banishment from the domes.

Alex




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that they 
> claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and feel 
> threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> political means to impose their version of the truth on all members 
> of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> world, are basically political movements which have a religious 
> imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!! >>>

No it doesn't because anyone practicing TM can practice any religion 
or non-religion they want, shag chicks, or be celebate. This is a 
fundamantal difference, and you may be too prejudiced to see it.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> > common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that they 
> > claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and feel 
> > threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> > political means to impose their version of the truth on all
members 
> > of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> > world, are basically political movements which have a religious 
> > imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> > circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> > service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!!
> 
> Yes, it appears most of us here have aligned ourselves (at
> various times and to various degrees) with some classic,
> grade- A "fundamentalists" -- :-)

Wake Down or die, infidel!

Alex





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > I only did it because no one answered. It was a joke but you are 
too 
> > dense for it. I got my answer though. It worked.
> 
> If none of us got it, I suggest maybe your joke was "too dense" for 
us 
> :-)>>>

It was a method to get the answer (a method which worked) and I  made 
a meal of it because I had already quietly asked the question twice 
before.
Off World




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > But we are multifold, and we NEED a planet now !
> > OffWorldBeings
> 
> *lol* "Our name is legion"...? 
> 
> BTW, Joseph Atwill has an interesting take on this New Testament 
> phrase. This is the author who says in "Caesar's Messiah" that the 
> Flavians created Christianity shortly after Jesus' "end of the 
world" 
> (Rome's destruction of Jerusalem). He notes that Jesus' exorcism of 
> the demons whose "name was legion" >>>

He didn't exorcise us, we just went to the Pleides system for our 
holdays.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

Jaizues ! You harp on and on and on about a 
joke that I made and call me a fundamentalist because of a joke that I made. 
Some sense of humor you got there bud.I thought that was a 
joke because you have more buttons one can depress than a calculator. Moreover 
pretty much everything you say is hysterical. 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Just wondering why you seem to care so much that you ask 
again 
> > and 
> > > > > again and again-- is this another case of your studying 
human 
> > > > > fundamentalism? If so, whose? Yours, or Bill's? :-) >>
> > > > 
> > > > Me fundamentalist? Wow, you really don't read well do you.
> > > 
> > > My original question remains -- why all the (SHOUTED IN CAPS)>>
> > 
> > To test your sense of humor. It was a joke.
> 
> Either my sense of humor reeks then, or yours does, or they both 
do :-) >>>

Jaizues ! You harp on and on and on about a joke that I made and 
call me a fundamentalist because of a joke that I made. Some sense 
of humor you got there bud.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Llundrub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Beyond all these differences, there are two features which are 
> common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, that they 
> claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and feel 
> threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use 
> political means to impose their version of the truth on all members 
> of their religion . . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the 
> world, are basically political movements which have a religious 
> imperative and seek in various ways, in widely differing 
> circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to the 
> service of their gospel. (p.4) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG!!! That sounds just like TMO!!!

Yes, it appears most of us here have aligned ourselves (at various 
times and to various degrees) with some classic, grade-
A "fundamentalists" -- :-)




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Llundrub]

Beyond all these differences, there are two 
features which are common to all fundamentalist religious movements: one, 
that they claim their version of religion to be the only true one, and feel 
threatened by pluralist systems of thought; two, that they use political 
means to impose their version of the truth on all members of their religion 
. . . Fundamentalist movements, all over the world, are basically political 
movements which have a religious imperative and seek in various ways, in 
widely differing circumstances, to harness modern state and media powers to 
the service of their gospel. (p.4) OMG!!! That sounds 
just like TMO!!!





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> I only did it because no one answered. It was a joke but you are too 
> dense for it. I got my answer though. It worked.

If none of us got it, I suggest maybe your joke was "too dense" for us 
:-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> But we are multifold, and we NEED a planet now !
> OffWorldBeings

*lol* "Our name is legion"...? 

BTW, Joseph Atwill has an interesting take on this New Testament 
phrase. This is the author who says in "Caesar's Messiah" that the 
Flavians created Christianity shortly after Jesus' "end of the world" 
(Rome's destruction of Jerusalem). He notes that Jesus' exorcism of 
the demons whose "name was legion" was reputed to have occurred in 
Gadara, where the Roman Legions later "exorcised" a number of Jewish 
rebels, according to Josephus. (This book is worth reading, I think.)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Ok, I have become interested in the amount of well known people 
who 
> have learned TM. I became amazed at how many there are everything 
> from Sir Paul McCartney to Sir Richard Bransen (virgin records, 
> virgin airways, first civilian flight in space-2005), from David 
> Lynch to Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh, Oprah, Chopra, from Clint 
> Eastwood to Prince Charles, past president Bill Clinton, future 
> president Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, Maggie Thatcher, William Hague 
> (former conservative party leader), Arnold Swarzennegar, Sir Mick 
> Jagger, (possibly the Queen of England - I had it on good 
authority)
> Woody Allen, those 3 rocker guys-I forgot the name , Steve Jobs,  
> and now it looks like Bill Gates too?
> 
> To name but a few. It seems amazing to me. 
> Is it just a coincidence that the richest man on the planet 
learned 
> TM? (although it is not 100% confirmed)

Ah I see, Off -- many thanks for your detailed answer; I appreciate 
it :-) 

So could we say you are delighting in the celebrities in your 
spiritual "family" ?




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Peter Sutphen]

--- off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > > Just wondering why you seem to care so much
> that you ask again 
> and 
> > > > again and again-- is this another case of your
> studying human 
> > > > fundamentalism? If so, whose? Yours, or
> Bill's? :-) >>
> > > 
> > > Me fundamentalist? Wow, you really don't read
> well do you.
> > 
> > My original question remains -- why all the
> (SHOUTED IN CAPS)>>
> 
> To test your sense of humor. It was a joke.

Did Bill Gates learn TM?


> 
> 
> 
> 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Rory Goff]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > > Just wondering why you seem to care so much that you ask again 
> and 
> > > > again and again-- is this another case of your studying human 
> > > > fundamentalism? If so, whose? Yours, or Bill's? :-) >>
> > > 
> > > Me fundamentalist? Wow, you really don't read well do you.
> > 
> > My original question remains -- why all the (SHOUTED IN CAPS)>>
> 
> To test your sense of humor. It was a joke.

Either my sense of humor reeks then, or yours does, or they both do :-)




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[FairfieldLife] Re: DID....BILL....GATES....LEARN....TM ! ! ! ????

[Alex Stanley]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rory Goff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Just wondering why you seem to care so much that you ask 
> again and 
> > > > > again and again-- is this another case of your studying 
> human 
> > > > > fundamentalism? If so, whose? Yours, or Bill's? :-) >>
> > > > 
> > > > Me fundamentalist? Wow, you really don't read well do you.
> > > 
> > > My original question remains -- why all the (SHOUTED IN CAPS)
> > > interest in whether Bill Gates learned TM?
> > 
> > He probably wants sponsorship to be Raja OffWorld of Uranus.
> > 
> > Alex >>>
> 
> I only did it because no one answered. It was a joke but you
> are too dense for it.

Wow... talk about being too dense to get a joke. You need to lighten
up, little 3-headed buddy.

Alex




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