[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd be interested in knowing whether people who don't practice TM have the same results with diksha. May I update you on this? I don't practise TM, and I didn't like 'diksha'. Btw, as it is compared here always with shaktipath, I was explicitly told by the diksha-giver that it is not a kind of shaktipath, that I shouldn't expect anything like this (which I didn't do.) and it certainly didn't feel like this. I was in India at Mt Arunachala, and I got it unconventionally, but the guy pressed so hard on my head, that I felt my crown chakra was negatively affected. (He was certainly well-meaning, but thats how I felt) So, for those who a sensitive at their crown chakra, like me, I don't recommend it. For others it my be harmless. My opinion. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. And for many of them, pure experience is something that the TM movement only talks about, and never provides. So of course they're open to something that *might* provide that experience. The interesting thing in all of this is whether the scenario will play out as it always has in the past. That is, first comes the pronouncement stating that the technique or teacher in question is not endorsed by the TM movement. Next comes the part where anyone who ignores this rather obvious warning is declared persona non grata. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And here is the behind the scenes reality of the Movement on Deeksha. Jacque, the former National Leader of Holland went to MMY and told him he had received deeksha, wanted to go to India and be initiated into giving deeksha, and wanted to give it to the people in the siddha vilage in Lelystad. MMY did not endorse this idea nor did he attempt to dissuade Jacque from doing this. Many people in Lelystad now have received deeksha and a number of people have been trained to give it. Jacque, on his own decided it might be a conflict of interest to remain the National Leader of Holland so he told MMY he was stepping down. On my 21 day training course there were several purusha,one who was sponsored by Jacque to attend, who relayed this information to me. The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. I have no comment on diksha itself ... but it seems MMY has now made his opinion on tmers doing diksha known via the public announcement, or do diksha people feel Konhaus is acting on his own. I think it's obvious MMY told Konhaus to put this out because diksha is getting too popular within sidha circles. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. When and how does this experience occur, and what is it like? (I know, pure experience isn't like anything, but...) If it's life-changing, in what sense is it life-changing? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the official Movement statement on Diksha and anyone who is teaching it. ³Maharishi¹s Movement does not endorse in any way any techniques or programs other than those taught by His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and anyone who is suggesting otherwise is misleading the people. Maharishi teaches Total Knowledge of Natural Law, bestowed by His Master Guru Dev, and offered in its purity by Governors of the Age of Enlightenment without any mixing of any unknown things. Maharishi offers the Total Knowledge of life to everyoneknowledge of the Constitution of the Universe, Total Natural Law, the will of God, to raise every aspect of life to perfection for the dawn of a new fortune of all mankind. ³I wish to caution all the Governors, Sidhas and Meditators not be misled on this point, and to keep their connection for enlightenment to Maharishi and the Vedic Tradition of Masters.² Maharishi says: Keep the teaching pure and don't adulterate it with anything. Raja Dr. John Konhaus Station 24, 6063NP Vlodrop, Netherlands E-mail: rajajohnkonhaus@ Www.mvoai.org And here is the behind the scenes reality of the Movement on Deeksha. Jacque, the former National Leader of Holland went to MMY and told him he had received deeksha, wanted to go to India and be initiated into giving deeksha, and wanted to give it to the people in the siddha vilage in Lelystad. MMY did not endorse this idea nor did he attempt to dissuade Jacque from doing this. Many people in Lelystad now have received deeksha and a number of people have been trained to give it. Jacque, on his own decided it might be a conflict of interest to remain the National Leader of Holland so he told MMY he was stepping down. On my 21 day training course there were several purusha,one who was sponsored by Jacque to attend, who relayed this information to me. The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. Are the purusha attending this course still accepted by the TMO as purusha, or are they former purusha? As I see it, there are 3 legitimate concerns here for the TMO. First, perhaps getting shaktipat/dishka from another person or tradition somehow connects you with that new tradition as well as TM and there might some sort of problem with that. Second, maybe the introduction of shaktipat in the midst of TM's delineated unfoldment of evolution is not in the person's best interest. Third, perhaps getting shaktipat is not such a great thing unless it is from a Master who knows you are truly ready for it. Kind of like working hard to activate kundalini by certain practices can be dangerous to health and sanity. Kundalini and shaktipat feel wonderful. Based on my experience, I think MMY gives this, but not so obviously. Probably Amma and SSRS too. As an aside, one of my children, while away from home and in college, was initiated into kriya yoga by a disciple of Yuketeswar (the other branch in Florida, not Yogananda's). My son had a fabulous experience which sounds like it was part of some sort of shaktipat with kundalini rising. But when, many hours later, the energy faded, he felt horrible, really bad and unstable. Someone might want to do some longer term followup on the people receiving the deeksha in this new program. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman thedoc108@ wrote: And here is the behind the scenes reality of the Movement on Deeksha. Jacque, the former National Leader of Holland went to MMY and told him he had received deeksha, wanted to go to India and be initiated into giving deeksha, and wanted to give it to the people in the siddha vilage in Lelystad. MMY did not endorse this idea nor did he attempt to dissuade Jacque from doing this. Many people in Lelystad now have received deeksha and a number of people have been trained to give it. Jacque, on his own decided it might be a conflict of interest to remain the National Leader of Holland so he told MMY he was stepping down. On my 21 day training course there were several purusha,one who was sponsored by Jacque to attend, who relayed this information to me. The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. I have no comment on diksha itself ... but it seems MMY has now made his opinion on tmers doing diksha known via the public announcement, or do diksha people feel Konhaus is acting on his own. I think it's obvious MMY told Konhaus to put this out because diksha is getting too popular within sidha circles. It doesn't sound that tempting to me, but I've never been tempted to become a Pentacostal and sing the praises of the Holy Spirit as It fills my body, either. Not that there's anything WRONG with that mind you, its just not my cup of tea. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman thedoc108@ wrote: The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. And for many of them, pure experience is something that the TM movement only talks about, and never provides. So of course they're open to something that *might* provide that experience. Most people don't report regular periods of transcending during TM -- even the long-term meditators don't. OTOH, people who have practiced TM for more than 4 months tend to show the same general EEG pattern, though it DOES get more pronounced during a period of TC. Long-term TMers show this pattern more outside meditation, and peoplewho report witnessing 24/7 show it more than those who don't. I'd say that TM provides SOME kind of experience to everyone who continues it, even if its not flashy, if TC can be called flashy. As Barry well knows, TM has never valued experience for its own sake, so for him to say the TMO only talks about and never provides it is (typically) absurd. As to your comment, it's not clear that Steve's phrase pure experience refers to experience of pure consciousness during meditation; that's why I asked him to say more about it. His response indicates that, for him at least, diksha has made a huge difference in his everyday life. And that kind of experience, of course, is what the TMO *does* value. But of course TM has made a huge difference in many people's everyday lives, so even if we understand pure experience to be a reference to that kind of difference, rather than experience of pure consciousness, Barry's claim that the TMO never provides it is absurd. It would seem that diksha provides *something* that some TMers value but don't otherwise experience, certainly, but what it is exactly remains undefined, so we don't know whether the TMO talks about it without providing it, or not. I'd be interested in knowing whether people who don't practice TM have the same results with diksha. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the official Movement statement on Diksha and anyone who is teaching it. ³Maharishi¹s Movement does not endorse in any way any techniques or programs other than those taught by His Holiness Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, and anyone who is suggesting otherwise is misleading the people. Maharishi teaches Total Knowledge of Natural Law, bestowed by His Master Guru Dev, and offered in its purity by Governors of the Age of Enlightenment without any mixing of any unknown things. Maharishi offers the Total Knowledge of life to everyoneknowledge of the Constitution of the Universe, Total Natural Law, the will of God, to raise every aspect of life to perfection for the dawn of a new fortune of all mankind. ³I wish to caution all the Governors, Sidhas and Meditators not be misled on this point, and to keep their connection for enlightenment to Maharishi and the Vedic Tradition of Masters.² Maharishi says: Keep the teaching pure and don't adulterate it with anything. Raja Dr. John Konhaus Station 24, 6063NP Vlodrop, Netherlands E-mail: rajajohnkonhaus@ Www.mvoai.org And here is the behind the scenes reality of the Movement on Deeksha. Jacque, the former National Leader of Holland went to MMY and told him he had received deeksha, wanted to go to India and be initiated into giving deeksha, and wanted to give it to the people in the siddha vilage in Lelystad. MMY did not endorse this idea nor did he attempt to dissuade Jacque from doing this. Many people in Lelystad now have received deeksha and a number of people have been trained to give it. Jacque, on his own decided it might be a conflict of interest to remain the National Leader of Holland so he told MMY he was stepping down. On my 21 day training course there were several purusha,one who was sponsored by Jacque to attend, who relayed this information to me. The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. Thanks to all for the info. So, I guess Diksha is a form of shaktipat or something? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman thedoc108@ wrote: And here is the behind the scenes reality of the Movement on Deeksha. Jacque, the former National Leader of Holland went to MMY and told him he had received deeksha, wanted to go to India and be initiated into giving deeksha, and wanted to give it to the people in the siddha vilage in Lelystad. MMY did not endorse this idea nor did he attempt to dissuade Jacque from doing this. Many people in Lelystad now have received deeksha and a number of people have been trained to give it. Jacque, on his own decided it might be a conflict of interest to remain the National Leader of Holland so he told MMY he was stepping down. On my 21 day training course there were several purusha,one who was sponsored by Jacque to attend, who relayed this information to me. The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. I have no comment on diksha itself ... but it seems MMY has now made his opinion on tmers doing diksha known via the public announcement, or do diksha people feel Konhaus is acting on his own. I think it's obvious MMY told Konhaus to put this out because diksha is getting too popular within sidha circles. TM = non-sectarian, universal Diksha = religious in nature. Therefore, anyone who does TM can choose to practise the religion of their choice and still do TM twice a day. So what's the problem. If Diksha is a meditation technique or spiritual technique, then MMY has said that one can do 100 different meditations as long as they do TM...and, hey, a direct MMY statement trumps a Konhaus statement any day of the week. So what's the problem? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman thedoc108@ wrote: The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. And for many of them, pure experience is something that the TM movement only talks about, ...and I would suggest to those people that if they are craving a certain subjective experience, why not go for it? I mean, hey, continue to do your TM twice a day and go for Diksha...TM can only improve the experience of it, no? and never provides. So of course they're open to something that *might* provide that experience. The interesting thing in all of this is whether the scenario will play out as it always has in the past. That is, first comes the pronouncement stating that the technique or teacher in question is not endorsed by the TM movement. Next comes the part where anyone who ignores this rather obvious warning is declared persona non grata. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- authfriend wrote: I'd be interested in knowing whether people who don't practice TM have the same results with diksha. And whether they're suffering side effects from having their kundalini unleashed. I've known meditators who get a shot of shaktipat and think it's great for a week, then suffer from six months of unstressing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Digest Number 4658
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, steven klayman thedoc108@ wrote: The fact is many people in the movement are receiving deeksha because it gives direct experience of the Divine, is not a path or a spiritual technique, has no teachings, no scriptures to read nor is obedience or loyalty to any gurus needed. It is just pure experience. And for many of them, pure experience is something that the TM movement only talks about, ...and I would suggest to those people that if they are craving a certain subjective experience, why not go for it? I mean, hey, continue to do your TM twice a day and go for Diksha...TM can only improve the experience of it, no? It sounds to me (from the outside from someone who has never experienced either) to be much like the Pentacostal experiences. I'm sure they are very enjoyable for those that have them, but being an agnostic, I'm always skeptical of their divine origins. One of the things I like about TM is that while MMY and the TMO provide a possible interpretation for your eperiences, you aren't required to believe it to practice TM. That may be the case with the Deeksha vendors as well, but given that everyone is calling it divine experiences including, IIRC, on the front website, they're obviously expecting everyone to agree with their interpretation from the getgo. and never provides. So of course they're open to something that *might* provide that experience. The interesting thing in all of this is whether the scenario will play out as it always has in the past. That is, first comes the pronouncement stating that the technique or teacher in question is not endorsed by the TM movement. Next comes the part where anyone who ignores this rather obvious warning is declared persona non grata. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
