subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Re\: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $"

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $





on 8/18/06 4:14 AM, hugheshugo at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I personally think Kaplan shoots himself in the foot with his talk of 
enlightened children (how does he know?)and psychics (surely the 
biggest frauds out there!) If he's that credulous perhaps it's no 
wonder he handed over so much of his hard-earned without asking where 
it was going.

Earl told me that letter was leaked prematurely. He would have cleaned it up a lot before releasing it intentionally.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread jim_flanegin

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Let's face it when someone leaves a group like ours under a cloud 
 they dislike the guru with equal but opposite power to which they 
 liked them in the first place, it looks like he'll accept any theory 
 out there as long as it's contrary to what the TMO think.
 
Agreed. Still attached as ever.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/17/06 6:01 PM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
  Has Maharishi ever given a straight answer on the movement's 
finances.??
  
 No.
  
  What does the TM-org think of Earl Kaplan now.??
  
 Probably hates his guts, but would welcome him back if he offered 
to give
 more money.

Why should Maharishi be held accountable by small egos that are just 
attached to money, who have no idea what he is doing or his role in 
the world at this time ?

Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the letter. 
Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all of 
his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened because he 
was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that story ?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread markmeredith2002

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/18/06 4:14 AM, hugheshugo at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  I personally think Kaplan shoots himself in the foot with his talk of
  enlightened children (how does he know?)and psychics (surely the
  biggest frauds out there!) If he's that credulous perhaps it's no
  wonder he handed over so much of his hard-earned without asking where
  it was going.

No one who gives to the movement asks where it's going, or follows up
on where it went.  It obvious to anyone who does any research that a
fraction given goes to the stated projects.  Here in fairfield the
local TBs have repeatedly given to special projects that never came to
pass, but no-one says anything.  It's a given in the movement that you
just give and however MMY spends it that's the way it should be spent.
 Donors who have grown to question that attitude invariably move on as
that attitude is not acceptable.  It's silly to think Earl was somehow
unique in this way.











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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/18/06 4:14 AM, hugheshugo at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  I personally think Kaplan shoots himself in the foot with his
  talk of
  enlightened children (how does he know?)and psychics (surely the
  biggest frauds out there!) If he's that credulous perhaps it's no
  wonder he handed over so much of his hard-earned without asking
  where it was going.
  
 Earl told me that letter was leaked prematurely. He would have
 cleaned it up a lot before releasing it intentionally.

That letter, with all the psychic vampirism and MMY killing GD
nonsense, was embarrassingly idiotic. He should have limited it to the
topic of TMO finances and ditched all the nutter conspiracy crap.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $





on 8/18/06 8:18 AM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the letter. 
Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all of 
his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened because he 
was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that story ?

As I heard the story (and I could get it first hand from someone who was there if you wish) she consoled him because he was feeling ripped off. She said that regardless of how the money was used (i.e., misappropriated) he would reap good karma from the sincerity of his intention when giving it.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo 
 richardhughes103@ wrote:
 
  Let's face it when someone leaves a group like ours under a cloud 
  they dislike the guru with equal but opposite power to which they 
  liked them in the first place, it looks like he'll accept any theory 
  out there as long as it's contrary to what the TMO think.
  
 Agreed. Still attached as ever.



More-so. Anger and its aftermath are a far bigger source of attachment than 
love and caring.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $





on 8/18/06 11:10 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

If you want money spent for a specific project, you have to specify that it is being spent for 
that project. Otherwise, a non-profit can spend it on anything it wants as long as it is still 
in the charter for it's existence.

Ed Beckley used to do that. He would see a road on campus that needed fixing, get bids from contractors, then donate money to fix the road, specifically ear-marked for that purpose. The money would disappear and the road wouldnt be fixed.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/18/06 11:10 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  If you want money spent for a specific project, you have to specify that it 
  is
  being spent for 
  that project. Otherwise, a non-profit can spend it on anything it wants as
  long as it is still
  in the charter for it's existence.
  
 Ed Beckley used to do that. He would see a road on campus that needed
 fixing, get bids from contractors, then donate money to fix the road,
 specifically ear-marked for that purpose. The money would disappear and the
 road wouldn¹t be fixed.


How many times did he do this? And if he really wanted it fixed, why didn't he 
pay the 
contractors directly?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $





on 8/18/06 11:35 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ed Beckley used to do that. He would see a road on campus that needed
 fixing, get bids from contractors, then donate money to fix the road,
 specifically ear-marked for that purpose. The money would disappear and the
 road wouldnt be fixed.
 
 
 How many times did he do this? 
 
I dont know.
 
 And if he really wanted it fixed, why didn't he pay the 
 contractors directly?

 Tax write-off.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/18/06 8:18 AM, nablus108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the letter.
  Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all of
  his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened because he
  was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that story ?
  
 As I heard the story (and I could get it first hand from someone who was
 there if you wish) she consoled him because he was feeling ripped
off. She
 said that regardless of how the money  was used (i.e.,
misappropriated) he
 would reap good karma from the sincerity of his intention when
giving it.

That's quite a contrast to the way that story was reported here.
It certainly sounds more credible.


JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread ffia1120

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/18/06 11:10 AM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  If you want money spent for a specific project, you have to specify 
that it is
  being spent for 
  that project. Otherwise, a non-profit can spend it on anything it 
wants as
  long as it is still
  in the charter for it's existence.
  
 Ed Beckley used to do that. He would see a road on campus that needed
 fixing, get bids from contractors, then donate money to fix the road,
 specifically ear-marked for that purpose. The money would disappear 
and the
 road wouldn¹t be fixed.

When I was a student at MIU I lived in one of the Pods up near the 
Learning Center. When a young, new student developed a lot of allergy 
problems in our Pod, her mother sent the university money to have the 
heating ducts cleaned out as she thought it would help allieve her 
daughter's allergies. You can bet those heating ducts never got cleaned 
out. The student ended up moving into HW, where the only problem there 
was lots of mice.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
  dhamiltony2k5@ wrote:
  
   Yeah, i find it particularly interesting because he was there 
and 
   can write about it from having been there.  It is an important 
   letter that tells us things.  Regardless.
   
   -Doug in FF
   
  Perhaps everything in this letter is true, and perhaps not. 
  
  The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy 
goes 
 on 
  and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies 
he 
  was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once does 
he 
  say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of 
 these 
  things.
  
  Seems like a very immature approach from this fellow. What is 
  Maharishi going to do, beat him up, call him a sissy, arm 
wrestle 
  him? On the one hand, this guy is willing to fill several pages 
 with 
  accusations, and on the other, not willing to meet with 
Maharishi, 
  who is after all, a human being just like the rest of us.
  
  Seems to me like this guy is intimidated by Maharishi, and that 
is 
  what he should be working on, instead of all this other stuff.
 
 
 In my experience nobody will even question MMY's lackeys for fear 
of 
 causing trouble or being negative, I would imagine that 
increases a 
 lot for the man at the top especially as we are led to believe he 
is 
 much more than human.
 
 I personally think Kaplan shoots himself in the foot with his talk 
of 
 enlightened children (how does he know?)and psychics (surely the 
 biggest frauds out there!) If he's that credulous perhaps it's no 
 wonder he handed over so much of his hard-earned without asking 
where 
 it was going.



I agree.

Although Kaplan probably has alot of justification and cause 
regarding the missing $17 million, he's a bit disingenious with that 
letter.

After all, he was in the TMO for -- what? -- 30 years?  Com'n.  If 
you weren't picking up on the bad stuff after all that time, can't 
blame it all on MMY and the TMO.

Gotta look to yourself a bit.



 
 Let's face it when someone leaves a group like ours under a cloud 
 they dislike the guru with equal but opposite power to which they 
 liked them in the first place, it looks like he'll accept any 
theory 
 out there as long as it's contrary to what the TMO think.
 
 He could have been a lot more effective if he'd stuck to the facts.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/18/06 4:14 AM, hugheshugo at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  I personally think Kaplan shoots himself in the foot with his 
talk of
  enlightened children (how does he know?)and psychics (surely the
  biggest frauds out there!) If he's that credulous perhaps it's no
  wonder he handed over so much of his hard-earned without asking 
where
  it was going.
  
 Earl told me that letter was leaked prematurely. He would have 
cleaned it up
 a lot before releasing it intentionally.


I wonder how that happens.

If a writer is working on a text and he is going through drafts, it 
usually doesn't go past his own computer.

That is, unless he was having a friend or colleague or employee take 
a look at it for opinions and feedback.  Unless Kaplan was 
circulating the letter widely for feedback (and then it leaves it to 
an Act of God whether it goes public at that point), then it would 
have stayed within a controlled, close circle.

And if it was leaked prematurely and it was me who it happened to, 
then the shit would fly.  I would find out who did it and either 
fire their ass or find a new friend.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/17/06 6:01 PM, Jason Spock at jedi_spock@ wrote:

   Has Maharishi ever given a straight answer on the 
movement's 
 finances.??
   
  No.
   
   What does the TM-org think of Earl Kaplan now.??
   
  Probably hates his guts, but would welcome him back if he 
offered 
 to give
  more money.
 
 Why should Maharishi be held accountable by small egos that are 
just 
 attached to money, who have no idea what he is doing or his role 
in 
 the world at this time ?



Maharishi should be held accountable because of the principle of 
RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR:

(rehs-pond-dee-at superior) n. Latin for let the master answer, a 
key doctrine in the law of agency, which provides that a principal 
(employer) is responsible for the actions of his/her/its agent 
(employee) in the course of employment. Thus, an agent who signs 
an agreement to purchase goods for his employer in the name of the 
employer can create a binding contract between the seller and the 
employer. Another example: if a delivery truck driver negligently 
hits a child in the street, the company for which the driver works 
will be liable for the injuries.

http://tinyurl.com/z94rp

You can't have it both ways: either MMY runs the TMO or he doesn't.

If he does, then he has to be held accountable for everything that 
happens under him.

If he doesn't, then let some professionals run the TMO, for God's 
sake!

That's why I was so pissed off with MMY and the TMO over the Levi 
Butler affair: there was clear evidence of contributory negligence 
on the part of the TMO when they did not follow policy and hand Sem 
over to the appropriate authorities after the first attack he 
perpetrated against another student prior to the murder.  It is 
obvious to me that the reason this wasn't done was because of the 
wish to keep crime numbers on campus and in Fairfield down.  A 
direct result of TMO policy and the wishes of MMY.

And also: after the incident, the only thing I heard come from MMY 
regarding the Butler murder was that he blamed society at large for 
the murder.

No taking of responsibility himself.

As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what he said 
after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue the 
hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility for this.  
the buck stops here.

Janet Reno did that, too, right after the Waco tragedy.  She said: 
the choice to raid them was mine and mine alone.  I'm responsible.

No such words were forthcoming from MMY.

Sad.



 
 Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the 
letter. 
 Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all of 
 his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened because 
he 
 was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that story ?








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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/18/06 4:14 AM, hugheshugo at richardhughes103@ wrote:
   
   I personally think Kaplan shoots himself in the foot with his
   talk of
   enlightened children (how does he know?)and psychics (surely 
the
   biggest frauds out there!) If he's that credulous perhaps it's 
no
   wonder he handed over so much of his hard-earned without asking
   where it was going.
   
  Earl told me that letter was leaked prematurely. He would have
  cleaned it up a lot before releasing it intentionally.
 
 That letter, with all the psychic vampirism and MMY killing GD
 nonsense, was embarrassingly idiotic. He should have limited it to 
the
 topic of TMO finances and ditched all the nutter conspiracy crap.


Earl should write a book called Writing can be fun and then read 
it himself.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/18/06 4:14 AM, hugheshugo at richardhughes103@ wrote:
   
   I personally think Kaplan shoots himself in the foot with his 
talk of
   enlightened children (how does he know?)and psychics (surely 
the
   biggest frauds out there!) If he's that credulous perhaps it's 
no
   wonder he handed over so much of his hard-earned without 
asking where
   it was going.
 
 No one who gives to the movement asks where it's going, or follows 
up
 on where it went.  It obvious to anyone who does any research that 
a
 fraction given goes to the stated projects.  Here in fairfield the
 local TBs have repeatedly given to special projects that never 
came to
 pass, but no-one says anything.  It's a given in the movement that 
you
 just give and however MMY spends it that's the way it should be 
spent.
  Donors who have grown to question that attitude invariably move 
on as
 that attitude is not acceptable.  It's silly to think Earl was 
somehow
 unique in this way.


Someone once posted here that David Lynch's recent project to raise 
money for instructing college students is being done under the 
auspices of his own foundation.

If that is so, perhaps this may be the solution to the wanton and 
irresponsible record of the TMO in this regard: if you want to 
donate huge sums to the TMO, control the money yourself through your 
own foundation.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/18/06 11:10 AM, sparaig at sparaig@ wrote:
   
   If you want money spent for a specific project, you have to 
specify that it is
   being spent for 
   that project. Otherwise, a non-profit can spend it on anything 
it wants as
   long as it is still
   in the charter for it's existence.
   
  Ed Beckley used to do that. He would see a road on campus that 
needed
  fixing, get bids from contractors, then donate money to fix the 
road,
  specifically ear-marked for that purpose. The money would 
disappear and the
  road wouldn¹t be fixed.
 
 
 How many times did he do this? And if he really wanted it fixed, 
why didn't he pay the 
 contractors directly?



Because he wouldn't have been able to get the charitable tax 
deduction for it.

And he wouldn't have been able to pay for it himself and use it as a 
deduction for his own business because that would have been fraud.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/18/06 11:10 AM, sparaig at sparaig@ wrote:

If you want money spent for a specific project, you have to 
 specify that it is
being spent for 
that project. Otherwise, a non-profit can spend it on anything 
 it wants as
long as it is still
in the charter for it's existence.

   Ed Beckley used to do that. He would see a road on campus that 
 needed
   fixing, get bids from contractors, then donate money to fix the 
 road,
   specifically ear-marked for that purpose. The money would 
 disappear and the
   road wouldn¹t be fixed.
  
  
  How many times did he do this? And if he really wanted it fixed, 
 why didn't he pay the 
  contractors directly?
 
 
 
 Because he wouldn't have been able to get the charitable tax 
 deduction for it.
 

Not so sure about that.

 And he wouldn't have been able to pay for it himself and use it as a 
 deduction for his own business because that would have been fraud.



Depends on when and how it was done. While consultants can no longer deduct 
their full 
fee, I believe that service organizations can deduct a lot more when doing work 
for non-
profits.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/17/06 6:01 PM, Jason Spock at jedi_spock@ wrote:
 
Has Maharishi ever given a straight answer on the 
 movement's 
  finances.??

   No.

What does the TM-org think of Earl Kaplan now.??

   Probably hates his guts, but would welcome him back if he 
 offered 
  to give
   more money.
  
  Why should Maharishi be held accountable by small egos that are 
 just 
  attached to money, who have no idea what he is doing or his role 
 in 
  the world at this time ?
 
 
 
 Maharishi should be held accountable because of the principle of 
 RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR:
 
 (rehs-pond-dee-at superior) n. Latin for let the master answer, a 
 key doctrine in the law of agency, which provides that a principal 
 (employer) is responsible for the actions of his/her/its agent 
 (employee) in the course of employment. Thus, an agent who signs 
 an agreement to purchase goods for his employer in the name of the 
 employer can create a binding contract between the seller and the 
 employer. Another example: if a delivery truck driver negligently 
 hits a child in the street, the company for which the driver works 
 will be liable for the injuries.
 
 http://tinyurl.com/z94rp
 
 You can't have it both ways: either MMY runs the TMO or he doesn't.
 
 If he does, then he has to be held accountable for everything that 
 happens under him.
 
 If he doesn't, then let some professionals run the TMO, for God's 
 sake!
 
 That's why I was so pissed off with MMY and the TMO over the Levi 
 Butler affair: there was clear evidence of contributory negligence 
 on the part of the TMO when they did not follow policy and hand Sem 
 over to the appropriate authorities after the first attack he 
 perpetrated against another student prior to the murder.  It is 
 obvious to me that the reason this wasn't done was because of the 
 wish to keep crime numbers on campus and in Fairfield down.  A 
 direct result of TMO policy and the wishes of MMY.
 
 And also: after the incident, the only thing I heard come from MMY 
 regarding the Butler murder was that he blamed society at large for 
 the murder.
 
 No taking of responsibility himself.
 
 As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what he said 
 after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue the 
 hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility for this.  
 the buck stops here.
 
 Janet Reno did that, too, right after the Waco tragedy.  She said: 
 the choice to raid them was mine and mine alone.  I'm responsible.
 
 No such words were forthcoming from MMY.
 
 Sad.

So you really believe that these people, including that christian 
fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed working of 
cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck stops here 
just makes me laugh.
 
 
  
  Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the 
 letter. 
  Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all of 
  his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened because 
 he 
  was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that story ?
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/18/06 8:18 AM, nablus108 at nablus108@ wrote:
   
   Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the 
letter.
   Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all 
of
   his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened 
because he
   was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that 
story ?
   
  As I heard the story (and I could get it first hand from someone 
who was
  there if you wish) she consoled him because he was feeling ripped
 off. She
  said that regardless of how the money  was used (i.e.,
 misappropriated) he
  would reap good karma from the sincerity of his intention when
 giving it.
 
 That's quite a contrast to the way that story was reported here.
 It certainly sounds more credible.



I remember the story being told that Amma chastised Earl for being 
negative about a guru.

Was that not a correct telling of the story?



 
 
 JohnY








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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
   
on 8/18/06 11:10 AM, sparaig at sparaig@ wrote:
 
 If you want money spent for a specific project, you have 
to 
  specify that it is
 being spent for 
 that project. Otherwise, a non-profit can spend it on 
anything 
  it wants as
 long as it is still
 in the charter for it's existence.
 
Ed Beckley used to do that. He would see a road on campus 
that 
  needed
fixing, get bids from contractors, then donate money to fix 
the 
  road,
specifically ear-marked for that purpose. The money would 
  disappear and the
road wouldn¹t be fixed.
   
   
   How many times did he do this? And if he really wanted it 
fixed, 
  why didn't he pay the 
   contractors directly?
  
  
  
  Because he wouldn't have been able to get the charitable tax 
  deduction for it.
  
 
 Not so sure about that.


I am.

You have to be an official charity in order to get a tax deduction 
for money you give to that charity.  Unless Ed Beckley's company was 
an official charity (it wasn't, it was his own for-profit business), 
it wouldn't be able to do work that was deductible.




 
  And he wouldn't have been able to pay for it himself and use it 
as a 
  deduction for his own business because that would have been 
fraud.
 
 
 
 Depends on when and how it was done. While consultants can no 
longer deduct their full 
 fee, I believe that service organizations can deduct a lot more 
when doing work for non-
 profits.


...then ear-marking for the work to be done by MIU would have 
allowed him to deduct 100% of what he gave.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
   
on 8/17/06 6:01 PM, Jason Spock at jedi_spock@ wrote:
  
 Has Maharishi ever given a straight answer on the 
  movement's 
   finances.??
 
No.
 
 What does the TM-org think of Earl Kaplan now.??
 
Probably hates his guts, but would welcome him back if he 
  offered 
   to give
more money.
   
   Why should Maharishi be held accountable by small egos that 
are 
  just 
   attached to money, who have no idea what he is doing or his 
role 
  in 
   the world at this time ?
  
  
  
  Maharishi should be held accountable because of the principle of 
  RESPONDEAT SUPERIOR:
  
  (rehs-pond-dee-at superior) n. Latin for let the master 
answer, a 
  key doctrine in the law of agency, which provides that a 
principal 
  (employer) is responsible for the actions of his/her/its agent 
  (employee) in the course of employment. Thus, an agent who 
signs 
  an agreement to purchase goods for his employer in the name of 
the 
  employer can create a binding contract between the seller and 
the 
  employer. Another example: if a delivery truck driver 
negligently 
  hits a child in the street, the company for which the driver 
works 
  will be liable for the injuries.
  
  http://tinyurl.com/z94rp
  
  You can't have it both ways: either MMY runs the TMO or he 
doesn't.
  
  If he does, then he has to be held accountable for everything 
that 
  happens under him.
  
  If he doesn't, then let some professionals run the TMO, for 
God's 
  sake!
  
  That's why I was so pissed off with MMY and the TMO over the 
Levi 
  Butler affair: there was clear evidence of contributory 
negligence 
  on the part of the TMO when they did not follow policy and hand 
Sem 
  over to the appropriate authorities after the first attack he 
  perpetrated against another student prior to the murder.  It is 
  obvious to me that the reason this wasn't done was because of 
the 
  wish to keep crime numbers on campus and in Fairfield down.  A 
  direct result of TMO policy and the wishes of MMY.
  
  And also: after the incident, the only thing I heard come from 
MMY 
  regarding the Butler murder was that he blamed society at large 
for 
  the murder.
  
  No taking of responsibility himself.
  
  As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what he said 
  after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue the 
  hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility for 
this.  
  the buck stops here.
  
  Janet Reno did that, too, right after the Waco tragedy.  She 
said: 
  the choice to raid them was mine and mine alone.  I'm 
responsible.
  
  No such words were forthcoming from MMY.
  
  Sad.
 
 So you really believe that these people, including that christian 
 fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed working of 
 cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck stops here 
 just makes me laugh.


Actually, he may not have exactly said the buck stops here.  That 
was my paraphrase of the sentiment of what he said (that's why I 
didn't put it in quotes originally.

I am saddened that it makes you laugh that Carter did that.  I think 
it was the exact right thing to do.  It's called taking 
responsibility for your actions.





  
  
   
   Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the 
  letter. 
   Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all 
of 
   his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened 
because 
  he 
   was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that 
story ?
  
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
snip
  As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what he said 
  after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue the 
  hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility for this.  
  the buck stops here.
snip
 
 So you really believe that these people, including that christian 
 fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed working of 
 cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck stops here 
 just makes me laugh.

What are you talking about?  The buck stops here
says nothing about cause and effect.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
shempmcgurk@ 
  wrote:
 snip
   As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what he 
said 
   after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue the 
   hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility for 
this.  
   the buck stops here.
 snip
  
  So you really believe that these people, including that christian 
  fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed working of 
  cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck stops here 
  just makes me laugh.
 
 What are you talking about?  The buck stops here
 says nothing about cause and effect.

Yes it does. Your president had no clue whatsoever about what caused 
what. To claim responsebility for a chain of events out of his 
control is childish and immature, and sadly; very american. 
Probably what the world awaits is an american President of some 
stature. Not that we have really high hopes.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
 wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
 shempmcgurk@ 
   wrote:
  snip
As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what he 
 said 
after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue the 
hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility for 
 this.  
the buck stops here.
  snip
   
   So you really believe that these people, including that 
christian 
   fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed working 
of 
   cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck stops 
here 
   just makes me laugh.
  
  What are you talking about?  The buck stops here
  says nothing about cause and effect.
 
 Yes it does.

No, it doesn't.

 Your president had no clue whatsoever about what caused 
 what.

Nor did he say anything about what caused what.

 To claim responsebility for a chain of events out of his 
 control is childish and immature, and sadly; very american.

You don't understand what responsibility means in
this context.  It doesn't mean It was my fault, I
caused it.  It means, I'm not going to try to blame
others for what happened on my watch.

 Probably what the world awaits is an american President of some 
 stature. Not that we have really high hopes.

The buck stops here is the highest stature
there is for a leader.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-18 Thread jyouells2000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/18/06 8:18 AM, nablus108 at nablus108@ wrote:

Someone posted a while back that Kaplan regrets writing the 
 letter.
Apparently he complained to Amma about Maharishi had taken all 
 of
his money whereupon she scolded him and said it happened 
 because he
was so attached to money. Anyone knows the details of that 
 story ?

   As I heard the story (and I could get it first hand from someone 
 who was
   there if you wish) she consoled him because he was feeling ripped
  off. She
   said that regardless of how the money  was used (i.e.,
  misappropriated) he
   would reap good karma from the sincerity of his intention when
  giving it.
  
  That's quite a contrast to the way that story was reported here.
  It certainly sounds more credible.
 
 
 
 I remember the story being told that Amma chastised Earl for being 
 negative about a guru.
 
 Was that not a correct telling of the story?
 
 
 
  
  
  JohnY
 


There is quite a difference between consoling because of good intent
and chastising for negativity. The spin makes all the difference.

JohnY 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
  wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
  shempmcgurk@ 
wrote:
   snip
 As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what he 
  said 
 after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue 
the 
 hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility for 
  this.  
 the buck stops here.
   snip

So you really believe that these people, including that 
 christian 
fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed working 
 of 
cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck stops 
 here 
just makes me laugh.
   
   What are you talking about?  The buck stops here
   says nothing about cause and effect.
  
  Yes it does.
 
 No, it doesn't.
 
  Your president had no clue whatsoever about what caused 
  what.
 
 Nor did he say anything about what caused what.
 
  To claim responsebility for a chain of events out of his 
  control is childish and immature, and sadly; very american.
 
 You don't understand what responsibility means in
 this context.  It doesn't mean It was my fault, I
 caused it.  It means, I'm not going to try to blame
 others for what happened on my watch.
 
  Probably what the world awaits is an american President of some 
  stature. Not that we have really high hopes.
 
 The buck stops here is the highest stature
 there is for a leader.

I respect that. But it does not mean that Carter had a clue of what 
carmas was being manifested at the time - the reason I labeled 
it immature. 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 
nablus108@ 
   wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
   shempmcgurk@ 
 wrote:
snip
  As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for what 
he 
   said 
  after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to rescue 
 the 
  hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility 
for 
   this.  
  the buck stops here.
snip
 
 So you really believe that these people, including that 
  christian 
 fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed 
working 
  of 
 cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck stops 
  here 
 just makes me laugh.

What are you talking about?  The buck stops here
says nothing about cause and effect.
   
   Yes it does.
  
  No, it doesn't.
  
   Your president had no clue whatsoever about what caused 
   what.
  
  Nor did he say anything about what caused what.
  
   To claim responsebility for a chain of events out of his 
   control is childish and immature, and sadly; very american.
  
  You don't understand what responsibility means in
  this context.  It doesn't mean It was my fault, I
  caused it.  It means, I'm not going to try to blame
  others for what happened on my watch.
  
   Probably what the world awaits is an american President of some 
   stature. Not that we have really high hopes.
  
  The buck stops here is the highest stature
  there is for a leader.
 
 I respect that. But it does not mean that Carter had a clue of what 
 carmas was being manifested at the time - the reason I labeled 
 it immature.

Carmas are irrelevant.  As I said, he wasn't talking
about cause and effect or who was to blame; in fact, he
was saying it didn't matter.  He was taking responsibility
for what had happened under his leadership *regardless* of
who was to blame, which is actually the *mature* thing to do.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 nablus108@ 
   wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 
 nablus108@ 
wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
shempmcgurk@ 
  wrote:
 snip
   As much as I detest Jimmy Carter, I respect him for 
what 
 he 
said 
   after that botched attempt by the U.S. military to 
rescue 
  the 
   hostages in Iran.  He said: I take full responsibility 
 for 
this.  
   the buck stops here.
 snip
  
  So you really believe that these people, including that 
   christian 
  fundamentalist peanutfarmer Carter knows the detailed 
 working 
   of 
  cause and effect ? To hear that fellow say  the buck 
stops 
   here 
  just makes me laugh.
 
 What are you talking about?  The buck stops here
 says nothing about cause and effect.

Yes it does.
   
   No, it doesn't.
   
Your president had no clue whatsoever about what caused 
what.
   
   Nor did he say anything about what caused what.
   
To claim responsebility for a chain of events out of his 
control is childish and immature, and sadly; very american.
   
   You don't understand what responsibility means in
   this context.  It doesn't mean It was my fault, I
   caused it.  It means, I'm not going to try to blame
   others for what happened on my watch.
   
Probably what the world awaits is an american President of 
some 
stature. Not that we have really high hopes.
   
   The buck stops here is the highest stature
   there is for a leader.
  
  I respect that. But it does not mean that Carter had a clue of 
what 
  carmas was being manifested at the time - the reason I labeled 
  it immature.
 
 Carmas are irrelevant.  As I said, he wasn't talking
 about cause and effect or who was to blame; in fact, he
 was saying it didn't matter.  He was taking responsibility
 for what had happened under his leadership *regardless* of
 who was to blame, which is actually the *mature* thing to do.

 Oh, my. How could he take responsebility for other people carmas ? 
Don't you see that's impossible ? What he said is just silly 
politicts.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
snip
  Carmas are irrelevant.  As I said, he wasn't talking
  about cause and effect or who was to blame; in fact, he
  was saying it didn't matter.  He was taking responsibility
  for what had happened under his leadership *regardless* of
  who was to blame, which is actually the *mature* thing to do.
 
  Oh, my. How could he take responsebility for other people carmas ? 
 Don't you see that's impossible ? What he said is just silly 
 politicts.

You really aren't getting it, are you?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yeah, i find it particularly interesting because he was there and 
 can write about it from having been there.  It is an important 
 letter that tells us things.  Regardless.
 
 -Doug in FF
 
Perhaps everything in this letter is true, and perhaps not. 

The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy goes on 
and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies he 
was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once does he 
say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of these 
things.

Seems like a very immature approach from this fellow. What is 
Maharishi going to do, beat him up, call him a sissy, arm wrestle 
him? On the one hand, this guy is willing to fill several pages with 
accusations, and on the other, not willing to meet with Maharishi, 
who is after all, a human being just like the rest of us.

Seems to me like this guy is intimidated by Maharishi, and that is 
what he should be working on, instead of all this other stuff.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $





on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy goes on 
and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies he 
was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once does he 
say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of these 
things.

For years, Earl had mare face time with MMY than just about anybody. Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to meet with him. MMY doesnt like uncomfortable confrontations.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy goes 
on
  and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies he
  was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once does he
  say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of 
these
  things.
  
 For years, Earl had mare ³face time² with MMY than just about 
anybody.
 Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to meet 
with him.
 MMY doesn¹t like uncomfortable confrontations.

It would be interesting to know if Earl even tried to meet with 
Maharishi to discuss all of this. My money is on 'Nope'.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread ffia1120

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at jflanegi@ wrote:
   
   The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy 
goes 
 on
   and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies 
he
   was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once 
does he
   say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of 
 these
   things.
   
  For years, Earl had mare ³face time² with MMY than just about 
 anybody.
  Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to meet 
 with him.
  MMY doesn¹t like uncomfortable confrontations.
 
 It would be interesting to know if Earl even tried to meet with 
 Maharishi to discuss all of this. My money is on 'Nope'.

My money is on Yep. The Kaplan's did not amass their fortune by 
sitting on their hands and being shy, meek or submissive. They were 
pretty forceful guys. And if/when they started to raise a stink about 
where the money was going, the TBs would have tried to keep them away 
from MMY. Have you ever heard of anyone with a bone to pick with MMY 
getting close to him?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread markmeredith2002

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ffia1120 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
  
   on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at jflanegi@ wrote:

The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy 
 goes 
  on
and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies 
 he
was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once 
 does he
say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of 
  these
things.

   For years, Earl had mare ³face time² with MMY than just about 
  anybody.
   Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to meet 
  with him.
   MMY doesn¹t like uncomfortable confrontations.
  
  It would be interesting to know if Earl even tried to meet with 
  Maharishi to discuss all of this. My money is on 'Nope'.
 
 My money is on Yep. The Kaplan's did not amass their fortune by 
 sitting on their hands and being shy, meek or submissive. They were 
 pretty forceful guys. And if/when they started to raise a stink about 
 where the money was going, the TBs would have tried to keep them away 
 from MMY. Have you ever heard of anyone with a bone to pick with MMY 
 getting close to him?

Earl told several of his friends of attempts to discuss the issue with
MMY on the phone and MMY not giving him a straight answer, which is
what really upset him as much as anything else.  Anyone who thinks
Earl wouldn't pursue getting to the bottom of what happened to $16
million doesn't know Earl - like the post above says Earl didn't get
rich being shy about money.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ffia1120 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
  
   on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at jflanegi@ wrote:

The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy 
 goes 
  on
and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the 
lies 
 he
was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once 
 does he
say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all 
of 
  these
things.

   For years, Earl had mare ³face time² with MMY than just about 
  anybody.
   Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to 
meet 
  with him.
   MMY doesn¹t like uncomfortable confrontations.
  
  It would be interesting to know if Earl even tried to meet with 
  Maharishi to discuss all of this. My money is on 'Nope'.
 
 My money is on Yep. The Kaplan's did not amass their fortune by 
 sitting on their hands and being shy, meek or submissive. They 
were 
 pretty forceful guys. And if/when they started to raise a stink 
about 
 where the money was going, the TBs would have tried to keep them 
away 
 from MMY. Have you ever heard of anyone with a bone to pick with 
MMY 
 getting close to him?

I've never heard of anyone with a bone to pick trying to speak with 
him at all- they mainly try their case in the court of public 
opinion, so to speak. 

I have yet to read of someone describing their attempts to speak 
with Maharishi and being repeatedly rebuffed, once they already had 
access. Not saying it never happened, but I just have never heard of 
it.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ffia1120 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ 
wrote:
   
on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at jflanegi@ wrote:
 
 The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this 
guy 
  goes 
   on
 and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the 
lies 
  he
 was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not 
once 
  does he
 say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about 
all of 
   these
 things.
 
For years, Earl had mare ³face time² with MMY than just 
about 
   anybody.
Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to 
meet 
   with him.
MMY doesn¹t like uncomfortable confrontations.
   
   It would be interesting to know if Earl even tried to meet 
with 
   Maharishi to discuss all of this. My money is on 'Nope'.
  
  My money is on Yep. The Kaplan's did not amass their fortune 
by 
  sitting on their hands and being shy, meek or submissive. They 
were 
  pretty forceful guys. And if/when they started to raise a stink 
about 
  where the money was going, the TBs would have tried to keep them 
away 
  from MMY. Have you ever heard of anyone with a bone to pick with 
MMY 
  getting close to him?
 
 Earl told several of his friends of attempts to discuss the issue 
with
 MMY on the phone and MMY not giving him a straight answer, which is
 what really upset him as much as anything else.  Anyone who thinks
 Earl wouldn't pursue getting to the bottom of what happened to $16
 million doesn't know Earl - like the post above says Earl didn't 
get
 rich being shy about money.

For 16 million I would've made *damned* sure I had a face-to-face 
meeting with Maharishi, even if it meant getting an army of lawyers 
involved. 

I am not making excuses for Maharisi, its just that given the 
apparently close relationship of these two and the amounts involved, 
Earl tries a phone call, gets the runaround, and gives up? 

Hmmstill sounds like he is/was intimidated by Maharishi.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread Jason Spock




   Has Maharishi ever given a straight answer on the movement's finances.?? What does the TM-org think of Earl Kaplan now.??  MarkMeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:38:19 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $Earl told several of his friends of attempts to discuss the issue withMMY on the phone and MMY not giving him a straight answer, which iswhat really upset him as much as anything else. Anyone who thinksEarl wouldn't pursue getting to the bottom of what happened to $16million doesn't know Earl - like
 the post above says Earl didn't getrich being shy about money.   
		Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1¢/min.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread chaim_laib

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 I've never heard of anyone with a bone to pick trying to speak with 
 him at all- they mainly try their case in the court of public 
 opinion, so to speak. 
 
 I have yet to read of someone describing their attempts to speak 
 with Maharishi and being repeatedly rebuffed, once they already had 
 access. Not saying it never happened, but I just have never heard of 
 it.


Ok, here's one for you, it at least partially expalins the wall aournd
him. Different era but this happened to me, I was there, it really
happened.

It was an ATR course attended by maybe 200 initiators, in Mallorca, at
the end of 1971. Lots and lots of problems of all kinds-housing,
busing, food, but we were young then, innocent, most things were
tolerable. 

Like standing for 8 hours, in front of our hotel at the beginning of
the 4 week course waiting for our bus to come get us and take us to
the other side of the island. Every 10 minutes or so we were told,
it's almost here.  

And getting to where M was, and getting rooms with no heat, no hot
water, no electricity, it was freezing, and when we asked for
different rooms we were told you're just unstressing.

S, at the very end of the 4 weeks, next to last meeting, Maharishi
asked us, What can I do to make these courses better.   I thought he
really wanted to know, so I got up to the microphone, he called on me,
and I said: Maharishi one thing you can do to make these courses
better is to have them planned better before we get here.  Well,
instantly the Big Cheeses (Joe Clarke, Stan Crow, Charlie Donanue)
starting waving me off the microphone. M noted this yet he looked at
me and gave me the a nod of the head-a go-ahead-to keep talking.

I explained to him all about an airline mixup, about the buses, about
the no heat/hot water, about how rudely the housing people were to us,
etc. and he was looking at me, really listening. All this while-maybe
3 or 4 minutes Stan Crowe, Joe Clarke, Charlie Donahue, were hissing
at me, waving me away from the microphone, finally YELLING Sit down,
sit down.

The one good thing about it was, at our very last meeting, before we
got on the buses, as M was giving us our sendoff, he said, in the
midst of his spiel, ...and we will do a much better job of planning
for your next course... and while he was saying these words he was
looking around the room to find me and our eyes met for a split sec.

It was great vindication for me, but it never stopped The Big Cheeses
from being idiotic about protecting M from anything not perfect.
Which was always a stupid thing to do, imo.

There are many other stories like this that I witnessed and it
expalins that there is a vast wall around him. At least I think there is. 

Chaim L. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, chaim_laib [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
wrote:
 
  
  
  I've never heard of anyone with a bone to pick trying to speak 
with 
  him at all- they mainly try their case in the court of public 
  opinion, so to speak. 
  
  I have yet to read of someone describing their attempts to speak 
  with Maharishi and being repeatedly rebuffed, once they already 
had 
  access. Not saying it never happened, but I just have never 
heard of 
  it.
 
 
 Ok, here's one for you, it at least partially expalins the wall 
aournd
 him. Different era but this happened to me, I was there, it really
 happened.
 
 It was an ATR course attended by maybe 200 initiators, in 
Mallorca, at
 the end of 1971. Lots and lots of problems of all kinds-housing,
 busing, food, but we were young then, innocent, most things were
 tolerable. 
 
 Like standing for 8 hours, in front of our hotel at the beginning 
of
 the 4 week course waiting for our bus to come get us and take us to
 the other side of the island. Every 10 minutes or so we were told,
 it's almost here.  
 
 And getting to where M was, and getting rooms with no heat, no hot
 water, no electricity, it was freezing, and when we asked for
 different rooms we were told you're just unstressing.
 
 S, at the very end of the 4 weeks, next to last meeting, 
Maharishi
 asked us, What can I do to make these courses better.   I 
thought he
 really wanted to know, so I got up to the microphone, he called on 
me,
 and I said: Maharishi one thing you can do to make these courses
 better is to have them planned better before we get here.  Well,
 instantly the Big Cheeses (Joe Clarke, Stan Crow, Charlie Donanue)
 starting waving me off the microphone. M noted this yet he looked 
at
 me and gave me the a nod of the head-a go-ahead-to keep talking.
 
 I explained to him all about an airline mixup, about the buses, 
about
 the no heat/hot water, about how rudely the housing people were to 
us,
 etc. and he was looking at me, really listening. All this while-
maybe
 3 or 4 minutes Stan Crowe, Joe Clarke, Charlie Donahue, were 
hissing
 at me, waving me away from the microphone, finally YELLING Sit 
down,
 sit down.
 
 The one good thing about it was, at our very last meeting, before 
we
 got on the buses, as M was giving us our sendoff, he said, in the
 midst of his spiel, ...and we will do a much better job of 
planning
 for your next course... and while he was saying these words he was
 looking around the room to find me and our eyes met for a split 
sec.
 
 It was great vindication for me, but it never stopped The Big 
Cheeses
 from being idiotic about protecting M from anything not perfect.
 Which was always a stupid thing to do, imo.
 
 There are many other stories like this that I witnessed and it
 expalins that there is a vast wall around him. At least I think 
there is. 
 
 Chaim L.

I am glad to did that- good for you, however it is not really in the 
same league as what I am curious about. I DO agree that Movement 
facilities were often atricious; dirty, spartan and actually 
dangerous. And the last course I attended (1993- Wash DC) was so 
disorganized I decided I'd not go on another.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread Sal Sunshine

One wonders, if he was such a fool as to give the TMO that kind of $$ 
with no strings attached, how he *did* get rich...was it just dumb 
luck? I don't quite understand how somebody could be that foolish.

Sal


On Aug 17, 2006, at 5:38 PM, markmeredith2002 wrote:

 Earl told several of his friends of attempts to discuss the issue with
 MMY on the phone and MMY not giving him a straight answer, which is
 what really upset him as much as anything else.  Anyone who thinks
 Earl wouldn't pursue getting to the bottom of what happened to $16
 million doesn't know Earl - like the post above says Earl didn't get
 rich being shy about money.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread Jason Spock

The TM-org preaches "Order and Perfection" to the entire world.!! but it can't set it's own house in order. Practice what you preach. What a Paradox.!! The TM-org lacks compassion. Had the TM-org had been a little compassionate and treated it's members as family, it would not have created so many enemies. chaim_laib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date:
Thu, 17 Aug 2006 23:22:51 -Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $Ok, here's one for you, it at least partially expalins the wall aourndhim. Different era but this happened to me, I was there, it reallyhappened.It was an ATR course attended by maybe 200 initiators, in Mallorca, atthe end of 1971. Lots and lots of problems of all kinds-housing,busing, food, but we were young then, innocent, most things weretolerable. Like standing for 8 hours, in front of our hotel at the beginning ofthe 4 week course waiting for our bus to come get us and take us tothe other side of the island. Every 10 minutes or so we were told,"it's almost here." And getting to where M was, and getting rooms with no heat, no hotwater, no electricity, it was freezing, and when we asked
fordifferent rooms we were told "you're just unstressing."S, at the very end of the 4 weeks, next to last meeting, Maharishiasked us, "What can I do to make these courses better." I thought hereally wanted to know, so I got up to the microphone, he called on me,and I said: "Maharishi one thing you can do to make these coursesbetter is to have them planned better before we get here." Well,instantly the Big Cheeses (Joe Clarke, Stan Crow, Charlie Donanue)starting waving me off the microphone. M noted this yet he looked atme and gave me the a nod of the head-a go-ahead-to keep talking.I explained to him all about an airline mixup, about the buses, aboutthe no heat/hot water, about how rudely the housing people were to us,etc. and he was looking at me, really listening. All this while-maybe3 or 4 minutes Stan Crowe, Joe Clarke, Charlie Donahue, were hissingat me, waving me away from the microphone,
finally YELLING "Sit down, sit down."The one good thing about it was, at our very last meeting, before wegot on the buses, as M was giving us our sendoff, he said, in themidst of his spiel, "...and we will do a much better job of planningfor your next course..." and while he was saying these words he waslooking around the room to find me and our eyes met for a split sec.It was great vindication for me, but it never stopped The Big Cheesesfrom being idiotic about "protecting" M from anything not perfect.Which was always a stupid thing to do, imo.There are many other stories like this that I witnessed and itexpalins that there is a vast wall around him. At least I think there is.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
 
  on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at jflanegi@ wrote:
   
   The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy goes 
 on
   and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies he
   was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once does he
   say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of 
 these
   things.
   
  For years, Earl had mare ³face time² with MMY than just about 
 anybody.
  Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to meet 
 with him.
  MMY doesn¹t like uncomfortable confrontations.
 
 It would be interesting to know if Earl even tried to meet with 
 Maharishi to discuss all of this. My money is on 'Nope'.


Why should he even try? If MMY were so cosmic he'd already know why Earl was 
upset...

I hope at least a FEW people realize that I'm paraphrasing the comment of 
another 
famous/wealthy student of MMY's who got upset with him over something.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ffia1120 no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote:
   
on 8/17/06 3:49 PM, jim_flanegin at jflanegi@ wrote:
 
 The thing I find downright odd about it, though, is this guy 
  goes 
   on
 and on and on and on about the deceit of Maharishi and the lies 
  he
 was told and how much money he gave Maharishi, and not once 
  does he
 say he plainly *met with Maharishi* and asked him about all of 
   these
 things.
 
For years, Earl had mare ³face time² with MMY than just about 
   anybody.
Perhaps, once he began to turn sour, MMY no longer wanted to meet 
   with him.
MMY doesn¹t like uncomfortable confrontations.
   
   It would be interesting to know if Earl even tried to meet with 
   Maharishi to discuss all of this. My money is on 'Nope'.
  
  My money is on Yep. The Kaplan's did not amass their fortune by 
  sitting on their hands and being shy, meek or submissive. They were 
  pretty forceful guys. And if/when they started to raise a stink about 
  where the money was going, the TBs would have tried to keep them away 
  from MMY. Have you ever heard of anyone with a bone to pick with MMY 
  getting close to him?
 
 Earl told several of his friends of attempts to discuss the issue with
 MMY on the phone and MMY not giving him a straight answer, which is
 what really upset him as much as anything else.  Anyone who thinks
 Earl wouldn't pursue getting to the bottom of what happened to $16
 million doesn't know Earl - like the post above says Earl didn't get
 rich being shy about money.


At least Earl was able to get him to come to the phone...






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $





on 8/17/06 6:01 PM, Jason Spock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Has Maharishi ever given a straight answer on the movement's finances.?? 

No.

What does the TM-org think of Earl Kaplan now.??

Probably hates his guts, but would welcome him back if he offered to give more money.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans  $





on 8/17/06 6:57 PM, Sal Sunshine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

One wonders, if he was such a fool as to give the TMO that kind of $$ 
with no strings attached, how he *did* get rich...was it just dumb 
luck? I don't quite understand how somebody could be that foolish.

He (Earl) trusted his guru.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread Sal Sunshine

You mean MMY?  I thought he specifically had said he wasn't a guru.

What did he tell Earl he'd do with the $$?

Sal


On Aug 17, 2006, at 10:38 PM, Rick Archer wrote:

 on 8/17/06 6:57 PM, Sal Sunshine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 One wonders, if he was such a fool as to give the TMO that kind of $$
  with no strings attached, how he *did* get rich...was it just dumb
  luck? I don't quite understand how somebody could be that foolish.

 He (Earl) trusted his guru.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $

2006-08-17 Thread shempmcgurk

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, chaim_laib chaim_laib@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ 
 wrote:
  
   
   
   I've never heard of anyone with a bone to pick trying to speak 
 with 
   him at all- they mainly try their case in the court of public 
   opinion, so to speak. 
   
   I have yet to read of someone describing their attempts to 
speak 
   with Maharishi and being repeatedly rebuffed, once they 
already 
 had 
   access. Not saying it never happened, but I just have never 
 heard of 
   it.
  
  
  Ok, here's one for you, it at least partially expalins the wall 
 aournd
  him. Different era but this happened to me, I was there, it 
really
  happened.
  
  It was an ATR course attended by maybe 200 initiators, in 
 Mallorca, at
  the end of 1971. Lots and lots of problems of all kinds-housing,
  busing, food, but we were young then, innocent, most things were
  tolerable. 
  
  Like standing for 8 hours, in front of our hotel at the 
beginning 
 of
  the 4 week course waiting for our bus to come get us and take us 
to
  the other side of the island. Every 10 minutes or so we were 
told,
  it's almost here.  
  
  And getting to where M was, and getting rooms with no heat, no 
hot
  water, no electricity, it was freezing, and when we asked for
  different rooms we were told you're just unstressing.
  
  S, at the very end of the 4 weeks, next to last meeting, 
 Maharishi
  asked us, What can I do to make these courses better.   I 
 thought he
  really wanted to know, so I got up to the microphone, he called 
on 
 me,
  and I said: Maharishi one thing you can do to make these courses
  better is to have them planned better before we get here.  Well,
  instantly the Big Cheeses (Joe Clarke, Stan Crow, Charlie 
Donanue)
  starting waving me off the microphone. M noted this yet he 
looked 
 at
  me and gave me the a nod of the head-a go-ahead-to keep talking.
  
  I explained to him all about an airline mixup, about the buses, 
 about
  the no heat/hot water, about how rudely the housing people were 
to 
 us,
  etc. and he was looking at me, really listening. All this while-
 maybe
  3 or 4 minutes Stan Crowe, Joe Clarke, Charlie Donahue, were 
 hissing
  at me, waving me away from the microphone, finally YELLING Sit 
 down,
  sit down.
  
  The one good thing about it was, at our very last meeting, 
before 
 we
  got on the buses, as M was giving us our sendoff, he said, in the
  midst of his spiel, ...and we will do a much better job of 
 planning
  for your next course... and while he was saying these words he 
was
  looking around the room to find me and our eyes met for a split 
 sec.
  
  It was great vindication for me, but it never stopped The Big 
 Cheeses
  from being idiotic about protecting M from anything not 
perfect.
  Which was always a stupid thing to do, imo.
  
  There are many other stories like this that I witnessed and it
  expalins that there is a vast wall around him. At least I think 
 there is. 
  
  Chaim L.
 
 I am glad to did that- good for you, however it is not really in 
the 
 same league as what I am curious about. I DO agree that Movement 
 facilities were often atricious; dirty, spartan and actually 
 dangerous. And the last course I attended (1993- Wash DC) was so 
 disorganized I decided I'd not go on another.


I went on an India course in Kashmir in '81 or '82 (can't remember 
the exact year) and it was so horribly disorganised that myself and 
2 or 3 others stopped going to group program and just did the 
tourist and hiking thing after the first few days.

To give you just one example: the flying room was made up of old, 
used mattresses from who-know-what flea-bitten, malarial and 
dyssentry-infested Indian homes...and every time you hopped on them 
clouds of dust would form.  I got the hell out of there after the 
first program.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: I found this rather interesting, the Kaplans $