[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
There are basicaly two types of policies, 'pro-market policies' and 'pro-business policies' 'Pro-market policies' enable those with merit and skills to rise to the top. It leads to overall and alround growth and development. It generates wealth for all. The entire economy benefits from it. 'Pro-business policies' benefit only big corporates and 'unfit corporates'. It leads to corruption. It leads to crony-capitalism. It also triggers income disparities across the population. It's important to maintain the distinction between the two. --- Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: But he is right about what went wrong with it. On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
On 05/28/2013 05:38 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ Wasn't pulling rank. Just wanted to know what you ACTUALLY know about economics. It became kind of a hobby with me in the 1970s. I also know some economists. I'm not saying there is anything WRONG with Krugman but it might be a good idea to read a wide range of economists. FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing-the-90-percent-club-the-importance-of-the-reinhart-rogoff-error Stockman: The state-wreck originated in 1933, when Franklin D. Roosevelt opted for fiat money (currency not fundamentally backed by gold), economic nationalism and capitalist cartels in agriculture and industry. When I read blather like this about FDR who rightwingers have *always* hated for creating a social safety net as they attempt to dismantle the highly successful Medicare program of LBJ, I stop listening. Actually there are quite a number of commentators on the left that think the gold standard should have been maintained. Keynesian economics work just fine in countries that support education, social services and government run health care in countries like Denmark for example: Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/what-can-we-learn-from-de_b_3339736.html BTW, when the right complains about Obamacare what they really don't like is the fact that if they don't purchase some healthcare insurance they'll get a fine. That's why they want the old system back so if they didn't purchase health insurance they wouldn't get fined. They actually might not have objected to single payer at all. I'm out of the equation being on Medicare. For too many years I paid extortion fees to Blue Cross. Iceland devalued its currency massively and imposed capital controls. And a strange thing has happened: although Iceland is generally considered to have experienced the worst financial crisis in history, its punishment has actually been substantially less than that of other nations...The moral of the story seems to be that if you're going to have a crisis, it's better to have a really, really bad one. Otherwise, you'll end up taking the advice of people who assure you that even more suffering will cure what ails you. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/the-icelandic-post-crisis-miracle/ That's because Iceland told the world banks to fuck off. Stockman also thinks the US should have told the banks to fuck off in 2008. I do too as do quite a number of people on the left. It would in the long run only hurt the selfish uber rich. Instead a bandage was slapped on the problem delayed the actual result which will hurt many people. The reason I posted Stockman's opt-ed was because it showed that even someone in the Reagan administration
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
Stockman's ideas have some merit. Meanwhile, the stock market is going as fast as he's saying to get out of it. It appears that the current rise of the stock market is fueled by pressure for fund managers to justify their salaries. IOW, they have to show some gains in their portfolios to maintain their jobs. If not, new people will be hired to replace the nonperformers. I haven't read Orlov's interview. I'll comment on it when time permits. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing-the-90-percent-club-the-importance-of-the-reinhart-rogoff-error Stockman: The state-wreck originated in 1933, when Franklin D. Roosevelt opted for fiat money (currency not fundamentally backed by gold), economic nationalism and capitalist cartels in agriculture and industry. When I read blather like this about FDR who rightwingers have *always* hated for creating a social safety net as they attempt to dismantle the highly successful Medicare program of LBJ, I stop listening. Keynesian economics work just fine in countries that support education, social services and government run health care in countries like Denmark for example: Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/what-can-we-learn-from-de_b_3339736.html Iceland devalued its currency massively and imposed capital controls. And a strange thing has happened: although Iceland is generally considered to have experienced the worst financial crisis in history, its punishment has actually been substantially less than that of other nations...The moral of the story seems to be that if you're going to have a crisis, it's better to have a really, really bad one. Otherwise, you'll end up taking the advice of people who assure you that even more suffering will cure what ails you. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/the-icelandic-post-crisis-miracle/ Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html\ ?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-\ goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. Your straw man that liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman don't know shit about economics doesn't hold up to the fact that Krugman has a record of accurate predictions. http://www.hamilton.edu/documents/An-Analysis-of-the-Accuracy-of-Forecas\ ts-in-the-Political-Media.pdf No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing\ -the-90-percent-club-the-importance-of-the-reinhart-rogoff-error Stockman: The state-wreck originated in 1933, when Franklin D. Roosevelt opted for fiat money (currency not fundamentally backed by gold), economic nationalism and capitalist cartels in agriculture and industry. When I read blather like this about FDR who rightwingers have *always* hated for creating a social safety net as they attempt to dismantle the highly successful Medicare program of LBJ, I stop listening. Keynesian economics work just fine in countries that support education, social services and government run health care in countries like Denmark for example: Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/what-can-we-learn-from-\ de_b_3339736.html Iceland devalued its currency massively and imposed capital controls. And a strange thing has happened: although Iceland is generally considered to have experienced the worst financial crisis in history, its punishment has actually been substantially less than that of other nations...The moral of the story seems to be that if you're going to have a crisis, it's better to have a really, really bad one. Otherwise, you'll end up taking the advice of people who assure you that even more suffering will cure what ails you. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/the-icelandic-post-crisis-mi\ racle/ Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-f\ iscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruct\ ion/ No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing\
