Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
On Jun 25, 2011, at 10:31 AM, whynotnow7 wrote: > blastedactresses=tartbrain=newmorning, imo Interesting~~I agree with the last two. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > I didn't know you could delete a post. It could come in > handy. How do you do it? You can do it only with your own posts, natch. Not sure if you can do it via email, but on the Web site, just open one of your posts. At the top and the bottom, right next to the Reply button, you'll see a Delete button. > MZ's suspicion that blasted was an est person is probably > correct. He sure left in a hurry after MZ nailed him on > why he wouldn't declare his affiliation with est. If the > Werner folks are as controlling as MZ says, it could > explain why blasted was too paranoid to admit he was an > est person. Maybe blasted deleted posts because he didn't > want to get in trouble with Werner's thought police. blasted deleted all except one post, but that post was also supportive of Werner, pointing out that if one sneaks into a private meeting one isn't authorized to attend and starts making waves, one should expect to be ejected. Made sense to me. blasted was also correct, in my understanding from friends who took est, that the whole thing about not being allowed to go to the bathroom was simply not true. I'm not sure why blasted would get in trouble with Werner's people for anything s/he wrote here. My guess is there are other reasons why s/he deleted the posts and then left. Tangentially: Anybody see the 1977 Burt Reynolds movie "Semi-Tough"? It features a wonderful parody of the est training. Game show host Bert Convy did a great turn as the Werner figure. That's also the film where Reynolds gets Rolfed (or "Pelfed") by Lotte Lenya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q3doiKoli0 She's sublime. Also very sexy, I just realized watching this clip. Probably hard not to be when you're doing a very physical scene with a nearly naked Burt Reynolds. Oh, jeez, that was a terrific movie, one of my all-time favorites. Reynolds, Kris Kristofferson (fabulous--check out his goofy grin at the end of the clip above when he picks up Reynolds after his Pelfing session), Jill Clayburgh, all in their prime. Fantastic ensemble performances.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
blastedactresses=tartbrain=newmorning, imo. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > Dear blastedactresses, > > > > > > I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered > > > the method of tracking down a post that I once read. For > > > instance, your query about Werner Erhard. Can't find it > > > anywhere, and I have searched long enough. > > > > It appears all but one of her/his/their posts have been > > deleted from the Yahoo FFL archive. > > Yes, blasted was doing furious post deletions... not sure why. Seems like a > dumb-assed thing to do, IMO. In any event, blasted unsubscribed yesterday > evening. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" wrote: > My view is that in self development programs, designated as spiritual or not, some conditioning falls away, but gets replaced by other conditioning, and if one is lucky, the former exceeds the latter and eventually the secondary conditioning will be experienced through. Otherwise, one is not so lucky. It's always a plus when statements make sense. Unfortuately it doesn't always happen.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > Dear blastedactresses, > > > > > > I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered > > > the method of tracking down a post that I once read. For > > > instance, your query about Werner Erhard. Can't find it > > > anywhere, and I have searched long enough. > > > > It appears all but one of her/his/their posts have been > > deleted from the Yahoo FFL archive. > > Yes, blasted was doing furious post deletions... not sure why. Seems like a > dumb-assed thing to do, IMO. In any event, blasted unsubscribed yesterday > evening. > I didn't know you could delete a post. It could come in handy. How do you do it? MZ's suspicion that blasted was an est person is probably correct. He sure left in a hurry after MZ nailed him on why he wouldn't declare his affiliation with est. If the Werner folks are as controlling as MZ says, it could explain why blasted was too paranoid to admit he was an est person. Maybe blasted deleted posts because he didn't want to get in trouble with Werner's thought police.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Stanley" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > Dear blastedactresses, > > > > > > I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered > > > the method of tracking down a post that I once read. For > > > instance, your query about Werner Erhard. Can't find it > > > anywhere, and I have searched long enough. > > > > It appears all but one of her/his/their posts have been > > deleted from the Yahoo FFL archive. > > Yes, blasted was doing furious post deletions... not sure why. Seems like a > dumb-assed thing to do, IMO. In any event, blasted unsubscribed yesterday > evening. Blasted's last post, I think, was spent avoiding responding to the 3 simple questions that MZ asked twice and then I re-asked: 1. are you a graduate of est, Forum or Landmark? 2. are you here to defend Werner E? and 3. Are you or were you a subversive? When I wrote that the questions/answers seemed relevant to the discussion of WE and that it was odd that Blasted would not simply answer them, Blasted changed the focus to the words chosen: "relevant" and "odd," not to answering the questions and why she/he would not do so. I am guessing that Blasted refused to answer because the honest answer was Yes to at least one of them. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > Dear blastedactresses, > > > > I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered > > the method of tracking down a post that I once read. For > > instance, your query about Werner Erhard. Can't find it > > anywhere, and I have searched long enough. > > It appears all but one of her/his/their posts have been > deleted from the Yahoo FFL archive. Yes, blasted was doing furious post deletions... not sure why. Seems like a dumb-assed thing to do, IMO. In any event, blasted unsubscribed yesterday evening.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
(to maskedzebra) If what you previously experienced was enlightenment, then you could conceivably become ex-enlightened. Otherwise, that would not be possible. It is possible to 'see through the veil' and fall back and have the experience close down. But never completely. Some have a real smooth time of it, but sometimes some really difficult things can start coming out after an awakening, one can simultaneously be schizophrenic, experiencing wholeness and at the same time experiencing an illusion resulting from unstressing which seems just as real until it begins to fade. There are also some other considerations that might bear on this which have to do with differences in the way human brains are wired together, though I won't go into this here. I have not challenged what you have said, but I do not fully grasp what it is you are trying to communicate (I also have a lack of time at the moment). Try a bulleted list of short descriptions, a summary if you will of what you experienced, in order of a timeline would be nice. I know little of your history, I have not formed any strong idea about you. I am in a stage called 'curiosity'. I thought your depiction of Werner Erhard was fairly apt. I think he got much of that aggressive aspect from his time in Scientology, where such behaviour among leaders of that cult has been described by ex-Scientologists. I knew a young lady from Hawaii who knew Erhard from before est; she said he smoked cigarettes and was overweight. I had heard other stories. My mother was one of the first 500 people to go through est. I do not think it affected her very much, she was a bit odd for a week or so, but then pretty much seemed to return to her 'normal' self. My view is that in self development programs, designated as spiritual or not, some conditioning falls away, but gets replaced by other conditioning, and if one is lucky, the former exceeds the latter and eventually the secondary conditioning will be experienced through. Otherwise, one is not so lucky. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > It's starting to rankle, this constant challenging of what I have to say. I have the feeling that once more on this forum have become more familiar with what you have to say, it might get more challenging. If it rankles, I suspect it is because you might be attempting to avoid some experience. If you have a lot of momentum in what you want to say, some encounters on this forum are like running into a brick wall. > Isn't there SOMEONE out there willing to become a devotee of the > ex-enlightened man? I am willing to listen, but I am not a devotee of anyone, or anything, except my remaining illusions, and this is a good place to wear such fantasies down. If I have a definition of what enlightenment is, I would say it is the realisation of what has always been the case. Nothing more, nothing less. Maharishi said this: 'in unity consciousness, nothing ever happened.' Krishnamurti said: 'My secret is I do not mind what is happening.' Maharishi said Krishnamurti was 'too far gone in unity.' Krishnamurti did not know what it was like to *not* be that way. Your descriptions so far seem convoluted, but they seem to be thinning out and getting clearer. So, how is it with you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > By the way, when is someone on this blog going to out and out agree with me on something? > > It's starting to rankle, this constant challenging of what I have to say. > > Isn't there SOMEONE out there willing to become a devotee of the ex-enlightened man? > > Thanks, by the way, seventhray1. Thanks for filling in the gaps. And the funny remarks.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > Dear blastedactresses, > > I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered > the method of tracking down a post that I once read. For > instance, your query about Werner Erhard. Can't find it > anywhere, and I have searched long enough. It appears all but one of her/his/their posts have been deleted from the Yahoo FFL archive. There's another, independent archive of FFL posts if you ever need to track down one you can't find here: http://www.mail-archive.com/fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com/ > You see Werner employs a totalitarian metaphysical > technique (est, The Forum, now Landmark Education), which > dislocates the person's real personality such that the > Landmark graduate IS UNABLE TO REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE > TO BE WHO THEY WERE BEFORE THE TRAINING. I have to put in my two cents here. I never took est, but my best friend did. We've been close since college (class of '63), so I'm pretty well attuned to her personality. She talked about est nonstop for a few weeks and appeared to have found it helpful and enjoyable, but she eventually wound down. I never detected even the slightest difference in her; she was the same person she'd always been, same positives, same negatives.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sallysunshine01" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > > > > > On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:10 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > > > > --- I > > > > > > > > n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > [...] > > > >> RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you > > > >> know how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts > > > >> to Jesus, but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must > > > >> push on here, Tom, hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent > > > >> Effect will eventually kick in, and people, without knowing why, will > > > >> find themselves in accordance with everything I say. Sure, it seems > > > >> like a pipe dream right now; but as Maharishi says, even if you have > > > >> to drain the ocean one drop at a time, you still must go on. I shall > > > >> go on. I am the Don Quixote of FFL. > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to > > > > children? > > > > > > Are they his children? If so, I'd say, "Right on!" > > > There's got to be some normal ones out there. > > > > > > Sal > > > > RESPONSE: I may have misconstrued your comment here, salsunshine, but I am > > getting a little worried about how many times I have to point out that I > > reaching into my irony survival kit. > > Actually, my comments above were in response to Lawson's > question about the priest. But as long as I have you on > the phone, MZ...as far as you're being the Don Quixote of > FFL~~well, I'm afraid there's a few that got there before > you. But hey, there's lots of windmills to tilt at. So > welcome aboard. > > > I was doing this here. Therefore, any question that is being (ingenuously) > asked of me based upon what you have quoted, is misplaced. I am mocking the > assumption that I aim to judge or teach or convert anyone. Because that is > not what I am about at all. > > Duly noted. > > In order to continue in the ordeal and miracle of being alive in my > self-consciousness I find I have to respond to people according to what keeps > the show on the road. Certain bloggers here seem to believe I am out to > persuade or convince them that I am right and everyone else is wrong. That's > not it at all. I am just defending my own belief system and subjecting > itdeliberatelyto the test of being challenged by ideas and beliefs that are > different from my own. > > Great. In that case you're in the right place. > > > I always have a sense of balancing between two poles: utmost sincerity, > > all-purpose irony. > > I would personally suggest leaning more towards the > irony side, but maybe that's just me. > > As I have said in a previous post, in this post-modern world you have to have > both these things going for you simultaneously. If I didn't, I would't dream > of taking on the bright, earnest, and serious (and sometimes hilarious) > persons who post on this blog. > > Yes, well, you have to actually post here for a week or 2 in > order for us to decide if your sincerity level is up to par. > Utmost may not be quite good enough. But we'll decide all that in > our next meeting of the Supreme Council of FFL. > > Sal RESPONSE: Oh Sally: just the right tone for me. Thanks. How about inexpressible sincerity? Yeah, when it comes to sincerity I don't put ANYONE ahead of me. But then when it comes to going off the deep end with Maharishi, it's hard for me to put myself second to anyone either. I mean for out-and-out delirium and adoration. Goddamn it, Maharishi was for me (until disillusionment set inwhich was agony) the very greatest Romance I could have conceived. After he broke my heart I react nastily to all would-be Loversthat is, anyone purporting to tell me about the blissful intentions of the Eastern gods. I am hoping my audition makes it when that SC of FFL meets. Jai Guru Dev* *There. The purest irony I have ever put down on paper. Those three words. I am trying to explain why here on this terrific blog. I beg the indulgence of my readers a little longer. Should I, because of your position, be especially nice to you, Sally? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > > > On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:10 PM, sparaig wrote: > > > > --- I > > > > > > n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > [...] > > >> RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you > > >> know how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts > > >> to Jesus, but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push > > >> on here, Tom, hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect > > >> will eventually kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find > > >> themselves in accordance with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a > > >> pipe dream right now; but as Maharishi says, even if you have to drain > > >> the ocean one drop at a time, you still must go on. I shall go on. I am > > >> the Don Quixote of FFL. > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to children? > > > > Are they his children? If so, I'd say, "Right on!" > > There's got to be some normal ones out there. > > > > Sal > > RESPONSE: I may have misconstrued your comment here, salsunshine, but I am > getting a little worried about how many times I have to point out that I > reaching into my irony survival kit. Actually, my comments above were in response to Lawson's question about the priest. But as long as I have you on the phone, MZ...as far as you're being the Don Quixote of FFL~~well, I'm afraid there's a few that got there before you. But hey, there's lots of windmills to tilt at. So welcome aboard. I was doing this here. Therefore, any question that is being (ingenuously) asked of me based upon what you have quoted, is misplaced. I am mocking the assumption that I aim to judge or teach or convert anyone. Because that is not what I am about at all. Duly noted. In order to continue in the ordeal and miracle of being alive in my self-consciousness I find I have to respond to people according to what keeps the show on the road. Certain bloggers here seem to believe I am out to persuade or convince them that I am right and everyone else is wrong. That's not it at all. I am just defending my own belief system and subjecting itdeliberatelyto the test of being challenged by ideas and beliefs that are different from my own. Great. In that case you're in the right place. > I always have a sense of balancing between two poles: utmost sincerity, > all-purpose irony. I would personally suggest leaning more towards the irony side, but maybe that's just me. As I have said in a previous post, in this post-modern world you have to have both these things going for you simultaneously. If I didn't, I would't dream of taking on the bright, earnest, and serious (and sometimes hilarious) persons who post on this blog. Yes, well, you have to actually post here for a week or 2 in order for us to decide if your sincerity level is up to par. Utmost may not be quite good enough. But we'll decide all that in our next meeting of the Supreme Council of FFL. Sal
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 3:46 PM, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > RESPONSE: If you don't mind, Tom, I will send you my proposed posts—before > posting them. You can winnow them down into the limned prose and syntax that > will insure that they have the optimal effect (on all these oh so > subservient readers). > > Deal? > > No deal. The three witches rule over decorum here. Also over what is correctly liberal. Two of them did their part during the last presidential elections as our very own resident feminazis. One acts as our own Miss Manners and editor in chief. She's so proficient at it that she even changes the subject line on threads once they veer far away from where they started. This despite her being stalked here and before this on Usenet by an out and out fibber. This fibber actually threatened that she might spontaneously combust, something the lady took quite seriously. Indeed, she took it as a death threat. Send your posts to our resident editor and bibliographer at jst...@panix.com . You'll see Judy posting here for a few days a week. You see, we have a 50 post a week limit here and she posts out defending herself and TM from the fibber in just a day or two.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > RESPONSE: Sorry, sparaig; thought you were salsunshine. And you're not. So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to children? http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidLynchFoundation#p/u/12/A4sS3tHvQRQ L
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
You didn't watch the video, I take it... http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidLynchFoundation#p/u/12/A4sS3tHvQRQ L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to children? > > Are they his children? If so, I'd say, "Right on!" > There's got to be some normal ones out there. > > Sal >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > When my subjectivity starts to infiltrate my reasoning > > faculties such that I find myself on the defensive, then > > I will know that reality is trying to teach me something. > > Just a free clue from the reality peanut gallery: > > You're there. > > Relax and enjoy it. RESPONSE: I AM NOT > > :-) >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > > > ...Werner believes his metaphysical totalitarianism... > > > > ...that might just smash open the metaphysical falseness... > > > > > > > Isn't there SOMEONE out there willing to become a devotee > > > > of the ex-enlightened man? > > > > > > I would perhaps, if only I felt worthy! > > > > > > I understand "totalitarianism" - but what's "metaphysical > > > totalitarianism"? > > > > > > I understand "falseness" - but what's "metaphysical > > > falseness"? (An oxymoron in a more earthy philosophy?) > > > > > > I understand "metaphysical" - but what's..(heck, you get > > > my drift!) > > > > > > I've noticed you have a nice line in "ontological" whatnots too. > > > > > > "Ontological" and "epistemological": You'd think they'd be > > > ugly enough to be safe from kidnappers, wouldn't you. But no. > > > > RESPONSE: Eastern Bloc communist was a totalitarian political > system. Werner Erhard's context is a totalitarian metaphysical > system (i.e. there is only one truth, and you shall submit to it > and no other: and not only that: YOU SHALL LIVE UNDER THIS TRUTH. > Reality is what I, Werner, have proved to you that it is). > Metaphysical totalitarianism, then, is consciously or otherwise > living under a context in which you experience reality through > the mind of someone other than yourself. In this case, Werner's > mind. Just as all CubansI've spent time in Havanalive under > the totalitarian mind (and system) of Fidel. > > > > [diffidently] > So, er met.tot. is just tot.? Simpler, eh? > [/diffidently] > > > Falsenness = something other than the truth (as measured by CONTENT). > > As opposed to measured by, what? "FORM"? Sorry, me no get it. > > > Metaphysical falseness = the apprehension of the universe and > reality in a way which is not in accordance with the way the > universe actually, objectively is, and what reality actually, > bjectively is. > > OK... That what I just call "false". It saves a lot of typing. > '"The cat is on the mat" is false' = the cat is not on the mat. > Who needs metaphysics? > > > E.g. the metaphysical difference between believing in Fallen > > Nature (Catholic) and believing in the divinity of the Self > > (Hindu). That is not only a distinction of what is false > > and what is true (either one or neither is true), > > Er... couldn't the divine [S]self have tripped? Or pretended > to itself to trip. So both are true? > > > its implication extends to a determinative interpretation > > of what reality is. Because when one goes through the death > > experience, one will know: is it reincarnation for me, or is > > it personal judgment?or something else. This is the metaphysics > > of dying. Not just dying. > > I think what are you saying is this: There's dying, and then > there's our beliefs about dying. When we die we find out if > our beliefs about dying are true or false (which is quite > possibly false. On one view we've all died a squidillion > of times, yet we STILL don't know!). RESPONSE: If you don't mind, Tom, I will send you my proposed postsbefore posting them. You can winnow them down into the limned prose and syntax that will insure that they have the optimal effect (on all these oh so subservient readers). Deal? I think I was just not prepared to be taken to the woodshed as I have beeneven as I have, so far at least, fought back against my tormentersor those who would punish me for my unconscious arrogance. Not to mention the convoluted, dense, fustian character of my prose style. Hey, give me a break! I'm only human. Trying to see whether my efforts at self-rehabilitation make me game-ready. For writing on this blog, OMG, it is a contact sport. But so far at least, I love it. Despite getting taken down a peg by critics such as yourself. Yeah, I never was that proud of my writing style. But if YOU KNOW THE TRUTH (as I always know I do, and have always known I did) why should I let a little awkwardness or bombast or abstraction get in the way of the message? After all, what I am hear for is to lead others towards the new Jerusalem. Don't worry, Tom: I will say Uncle at the right time. But yes, I probably over-use that word metaphysical. But then again my total focus always in my life is metaphysical. As a famous Englishman once said, "All quarrels are theological." [That's a paraphrase.] How much reality am I able to bear in this moment? How accurately am I seeing and understanding reality in this moment? I am obsessed with this. So when I go through the death experience, it won't seem that differentthat is, my focus. I am sure the actual experience of dying will shock me beyond what is conceivable. Just like it shocked Maharishi. My feeling
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > When my subjectivity starts to infiltrate my reasoning > faculties such that I find myself on the defensive, then > I will know that reality is trying to teach me something. Just a free clue from the reality peanut gallery: You're there. Relax and enjoy it. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
RESPONSE: Sorry, sparaig; thought you were salsunshine. And you're not. Sorry to you too salsunshine. I am beginning to feel a little like (this analogy is ridiculously pitched in favour myself and to the unjust detriment of my critics) St Jean de Brebeuf among the Iroquois. I am perhaps looking at my fingernails for the last time? So this is what it is like to be scourged at the pillar. Nah, it's all good. "Everything is grace". I am loving it. You guysall of you out there reacting to meyou're great. Good people. This is my strongest intuition. It's actually a privilege to post herenever known anything like it. So let's keep it going. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > [...] > > RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you know > > how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts to Jesus, > > but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push on here, > > Tom, hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect will > > eventually kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find themselves > > in accordance with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a pipe dream right > > now; but as Maharishi says, even if you have to drain the ocean one drop at > > a time, you still must go on. I shall go on. I am the Don Quixote of FFL. > > > > > > > So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to children? > > http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidLynchFoundation#p/u/12/A4sS3tHvQRQ > > > > Lawson >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:18 PM, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > > > > RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you know > > how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts to Jesus, > > but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push on here, Tom, > > hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect will eventually > > kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find themselves in accordance > > with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a pipe dream right now; but as > > Maharishi says, even if you have to drain the ocean one drop at a time, you > > still must go on. I shall go on. I am the Don Quixote of FFL. > > > > > Your short (I hope) stay here is not for naught. When you came here we were > all pagans. Now you have spoken THE WORD to us. Now we're all heathens. RESPONSE: if the truth be told,Tom, I am posting here in order to LEARN something, to GO THROUGH something, to TEST OUT my post-enlightenment beliefs. Should I encounter a point of view which creates vertigo inside my soul, then I will know: HEY MASKED ZEBRA: you be stupid, or blind, or naive, or out of itin some way. Then the tension and reaction produced by these conversations WILL DO ME SOME GOOD. I really mean this. When my subjectivity starts to infiltrate my reasoning faculties such that I find myself on the defensive, then I will know that reality is trying to teach me something, It seems on this hard-hitting blog I have every chance of becoming a better personor at least more humble before the terrifying mystery of existing inside this universewith the power of choosing what I do (and write). You hope my stay here is short. If you think my posts merit this harsh adjudication, then either you are lining up on something that deserves this assessment, or else my posts are a little too much of that adage: Sweet are the uses of adversity". It is my belief that entering into the fray here will strengthen me, open me up, and bring greater clarity to my way of processing the experiences that are being dished out to me by whatever created me and the universeand you. Could I be mistaken in this presumption, Tom? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine wrote: > > On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:10 PM, sparaig wrote: > > --- I > > > > n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > [...] > >> RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you know > >> how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts to > >> Jesus, but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push on > >> here, Tom, hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect will > >> eventually kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find themselves > >> in accordance with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a pipe dream > >> right now; but as Maharishi says, even if you have to drain the ocean one > >> drop at a time, you still must go on. I shall go on. I am the Don Quixote > >> of FFL. > >>> > >> > > > > So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to children? > > Are they his children? If so, I'd say, "Right on!" > There's got to be some normal ones out there. > > Sal RESPONSE: I may have misconstrued your comment here, salsunshine, but I am getting a little worried about how many times I have to point out that I reaching into my irony survival kit. I was doing this here. Therefore, any question that is being (ingenuously) asked of me based upon what you have quoted, is misplaced. I am mocking the assumption that I aim to judge or teach or convert anyone. Because that is not what I am about at all. In order to continue in the ordeal and miracle of being alive in my self-consciousness I find I have to respond to people according to what keeps the show on the road. Certain bloggers here seem to believe I am out to persuade or convince them that I am right and everyone else is wrong. That's not it at all. I am just defending my own belief system and subjecting itdeliberatelyto the test of being challenged by ideas and beliefs that are different from my own. I always have a sense of balancing between two poles: utmost sincerity, all-purpose irony. As I have said in a previous post, in this post-modern world you have to have both these things going for you simultaneously. If I didn't, I would't dream of taking on the bright, earnest, and serious (and sometimes hilarious) persons who post on this blog. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
On Jun 24, 2011, at 1:10 PM, sparaig wrote: --- I > > n FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > [...] >> RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you know >> how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts to Jesus, >> but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push on here, Tom, >> hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect will eventually >> kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find themselves in accordance >> with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a pipe dream right now; but as >> Maharishi says, even if you have to drain the ocean one drop at a time, you >> still must go on. I shall go on. I am the Don Quixote of FFL. >>> >> > > So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to children? Are they his children? If so, I'd say, "Right on!" There's got to be some normal ones out there. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: [...] > RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you know how > we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts to Jesus, but > think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push on here, Tom, > hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect will eventually > kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find themselves in accordance > with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a pipe dream right now; but as > Maharishi says, even if you have to drain the ocean one drop at a time, you > still must go on. I shall go on. I am the Don Quixote of FFL. > > > So, what would you say to this Catholic Priest who teaches TM to children? http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidLynchFoundation#p/u/12/A4sS3tHvQRQ Lawson
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:18 PM, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you know > how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts to Jesus, > but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push on here, Tom, > hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect will eventually > kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find themselves in accordance > with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a pipe dream right now; but as > Maharishi says, even if you have to drain the ocean one drop at a time, you > still must go on. I shall go on. I am the Don Quixote of FFL. > > Your short (I hope) stay here is not for naught. When you came here we were all pagans. Now you have spoken THE WORD to us. Now we're all heathens.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > > > ...Werner believes his metaphysical totalitarianism... > > > ...that might just smash open the metaphysical falseness... > > > > > Isn't there SOMEONE out there willing to become a devotee > > > of the ex-enlightened man? > > > > I would perhaps, if only I felt worthy! > > > > I understand "totalitarianism" - but what's "metaphysical > > totalitarianism"? > > > > I understand "falseness" - but what's "metaphysical > > falseness"? (An oxymoron in a more earthy philosophy?) > > > > I understand "metaphysical" - but what's..(heck, you get > > my drift!) > > > > I've noticed you have a nice line in "ontological" whatnots too. > > > > "Ontological" and "epistemological": You'd think they'd be > > ugly enough to be safe from kidnappers, wouldn't you. But no. > > RESPONSE: Eastern Bloc communist was a totalitarian political system. Werner Erhard's context is a totalitarian metaphysical system (i.e. there is only one truth, and you shall submit to it and no other: and not only that: YOU SHALL LIVE UNDER THIS TRUTH. Reality is what I, Werner, have proved to you that it is). Metaphysical totalitarianism, then, is consciously or otherwise living under a context in which you experience reality through the mind of someone other than yourself. In this case, Werner's mind. Just as all CubansI've spent time in Havanalive under the totalitarian mind (and system) of Fidel. > [diffidently] So, er met.tot. is just tot.? Simpler, eh? [/diffidently] > Falsenness = something other than the truth (as measured by CONTENT). As opposed to measured by, what? "FORM"? Sorry, me no get it. > Metaphysical falseness = the apprehension of the universe and reality in a way which is not in accordance with the way the universe actually, objectively is, and what reality actually, bjectively is. OK... That what I just call "false". It saves a lot of typing. '"The cat is on the mat" is false' = the cat is not on the mat. Who needs metaphysics? > E.g. the metaphysical difference between believing in Fallen > Nature (Catholic) and believing in the divinity of the Self > (Hindu). That is not only a distinction of what is false > and what is true (either one or neither is true), Er... couldn't the divine [S]self have tripped? Or pretended to itself to trip. So both are true? > its implication extends to a determinative interpretation > of what reality is. Because when one goes through the death > experience, one will know: is it reincarnation for me, or is > it personal judgment?or something else. This is the metaphysics > of dying. Not just dying. I think what are you saying is this: There's dying, and then there's our beliefs about dying. When we die we find out if our beliefs about dying are true or false (which is quite possibly false. On one view we've all died a squidillion of times, yet we STILL don't know!).
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > > > ...Werner believes his metaphysical totalitarianism... > > ...that might just smash open the metaphysical falseness... > > > Isn't there SOMEONE out there willing to become a devotee > > of the ex-enlightened man? > > I would perhaps, if only I felt worthy! > > I understand "totalitarianism" - but what's "metaphysical > totalitarianism"? > > I understand "falseness" - but what's "metaphysical > falseness"? (An oxymoron in a more earthy philosophy?) > > I understand "metaphysical" - but what's..(heck, you get > my drift!) > > I've noticed you have a nice line in "ontological" whatnots too. > > "Ontological" and "epistemological": You'd think they'd be > ugly enough to be safe from kidnappers, wouldn't you. But no. RESPONSE: Eastern Bloc communist was a totalitarian political system. Werner Erhard's context is a totalitarian metaphysical system (i.e. there is only one truth, and you shall submit to it and no other: and not only that: YOU SHALL LIVE UNDER THIS TRUTH. Reality is what I, Werner, have proved to you that it is). Metaphysical totalitarianism, then, is consciously or otherwise living under a context in which you experience reality through the mind of someone other than yourself. In this case, Werner's mind. Just as all CubansI've spent time in Havanalive under the totalitarian mind (and system) of Fidel. Falsenness = something other than the truth (as measured by CONTENT). Metaphysical falseness = the apprehension of the universe and reality in a way which is not in accordance with the way the universe actually, objectively is, and what reality actually, objectively is. E.g. the metaphysical difference between believing in Fallen Nature (Catholic) and believing in the divinity of the Self (Hindu). That is not only a distinction of what is false and what is true (either one or neither is true), its implication extends to a determinative interpretation of what reality is. Because when one goes through the death experience, one will know: is it reincarnation for me, or is it personal judgment?or something else. This is the metaphysics of dying. Not just dying. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > ...Werner believes his metaphysical totalitarianism... > ...that might just smash open the metaphysical falseness... > Isn't there SOMEONE out there willing to become a devotee > of the ex-enlightened man? I would perhaps, if only I felt worthy! I understand "totalitarianism" - but what's "metaphysical totalitarianism"? I understand "falseness" - but what's "metaphysical falseness"? (An oxymoron in a more earthy philosophy?) I understand "metaphysical" - but what's..(heck, you get my drift!) I've noticed you have a nice line in "ontological" whatnots too. "Ontological" and "epistemological": You'd think they'd be ugly enough to be safe from kidnappers, wouldn't you. But no.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:34 AM, maskedzebra wrote: > > > RESPONSE: > > 1. As soon as I stood up to speak Werner immediately approached me > > physically while simultaneously motioning to his assistants (two) to help > > him prevent me from continuing to speak. > > 2. Werner was speaking over my voice as these two men gripped my shoulders > > tightly, lifting me off the ground, carrying me out of the room, where they > > dropped me down and closed the door. (Werner initially also inhibited my > > physical freedom by putting his hands on my body. He then gave way to his > > assistants and resumed his lecture) > > 3. I suppose this was before teachers were not allowed to apply corporal > > punishment to their pupils, or parents allowed to spank their children. > > Obviously Werner would never get away with this violence [legal assault and > > battery] these daysand his act would have been viewed as indefensible. > > 4. Finally, if what I have said here is untrue, then Werner would deem this > > story libellous. Landmark Education (even more so than Scientology) have > > lawyers who will go after anyone who tries to tarnish the good name of their > > avatar. > > 5. I had light bruises on my arms from being ejected from Werner's lecture. > > > > The Landmark/Werner people: they do their business through word of mouth > > only. But they keep their ears to the ground, and it is quite possible one > > or more of them will challenge my accountmaybe it has already happened. > > > > > Mein Gott! This guy can write coherent sentences if he sets his mind to it. > > I'm sure the bag ladies will jump all over your description as the utmost in > brutality, but I grew up in something of a rough and tumble world. IMO, > there's more much ado about nothing, as usual. But I can see how very > important this is to you and therefore should be important to the known > world. You are such a special person. Being ejected out of a room, > physically. Such a crime. It's clear you've carried the hurt of this > grievous assault against your person and retold the story many times. > > The observation by another poster says it all. This is a tough audience > here on FFL. You must be in great desperation because we're not all > groupies gathered at your feet oooing and hhing at your every word. A > leader without followers. What a desperate situation to be in. RESPONSE: Admittedly it is "a desperate situation to be in", but you know how we missionaries think: maybe only one of the natives converts to Jesus, but think of that: ONE SOUL SAVED FOR ETERNITY. So I must push on here, Tom, hoping that something equivalent to the One Percent Effect will eventually kick in, and people, without knowing why, will find themselves in accordance with everything I say. Sure, it seems like a pipe dream right now; but as Maharishi says, even if you have to drain the ocean one drop at a time, you still must go on. I shall go on. I am the Don Quixote of FFL. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:34 AM, maskedzebra wrote: > RESPONSE: > 1. As soon as I stood up to speak Werner immediately approached me > physically while simultaneously motioning to his assistants (two) to help > him prevent me from continuing to speak. > 2. Werner was speaking over my voice as these two men gripped my shoulders > tightly, lifting me off the ground, carrying me out of the room, where they > dropped me down and closed the door. (Werner initially also inhibited my > physical freedom by putting his hands on my body. He then gave way to his > assistants and resumed his lecture) > 3. I suppose this was before teachers were not allowed to apply corporal > punishment to their pupils, or parents allowed to spank their children. > Obviously Werner would never get away with this violence [legal assault and > battery] these days—and his act would have been viewed as indefensible. > 4. Finally, if what I have said here is untrue, then Werner would deem this > story libellous. Landmark Education (even more so than Scientology) have > lawyers who will go after anyone who tries to tarnish the good name of their > avatar. > 5. I had light bruises on my arms from being ejected from Werner's lecture. > > The Landmark/Werner people: they do their business through word of mouth > only. But they keep their ears to the ground, and it is quite possible one > or more of them will challenge my account—maybe it has already happened. > > Mein Gott! This guy can write coherent sentences if he sets his mind to it. I'm sure the bag ladies will jump all over your description as the utmost in brutality, but I grew up in something of a rough and tumble world. IMO, there's more much ado about nothing, as usual. But I can see how very important this is to you and therefore should be important to the known world. You are such a special person. Being ejected out of a room, physically. Such a crime. It's clear you've carried the hurt of this grievous assault against your person and retold the story many times. The observation by another poster says it all. This is a tough audience here on FFL. You must be in great desperation because we're not all groupies gathered at your feet oooing and hhing at your every word. A leader without followers. What a desperate situation to be in.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blastedactresses wrote: > > maskedzebra, > > "I am fairly new around here, .. But life will eventually get around > to it one way or another." > > ( RESPONSE: your sweeping opinions and generalizations are noted and your > contempt and disapproval for the topic also noted. You appear to see > yourself as a "writer" and you are comfortable presenting little or no > distinction between your fictions and reality/facts. > > I have nothing to add but that. Thanks anyway. ) MASKED ZEBRA RESPONSE; May I take that "Thanks" as the smoking gun, because in this context (although you are making it work a little differently), that is a Werner response, blastedactresses. Look, blastedactresses, there is room for only one truth here. My MFT. GOT that? I still love that name: blastedactresses (provided, that is, it is not derived from having been born-again via the context of Werner baby). But no matter what: I'd still like to send out some love. As they say: "It's all good." >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > > I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered the method > of tracking down a post that I once read. For instance, your query about > Werner Erhard. Can't find it anywhere, and I have searched long enough. > But I would like to elaborate on that incident which I described when > Werner attacked me physically (along with his assistants). > > Uh, you kind of wimped out on this part, (at least in this post). I > kept reading through the more philosophical parts to get the "attack" > part, but it never really came. "He attacked me" You see this on the > 10:00 news a lot. Not exactly bait and switch. More like get the > reader interested, but don't quite deliver the goods. RESPONSE: 1. As soon as I stood up to speak Werner immediately approached me physically while simultaneously motioning to his assistants (two) to help him prevent me from continuing to speak. 2. Werner was speaking over my voice as these two men gripped my shoulders tightly, lifting me off the ground, carrying me out of the room, where they dropped me down and closed the door. (Werner initially also inhibited my physical freedom by putting his hands on my body. He then gave way to his assistants and resumed his lecture) 3. I suppose this was before teachers were not allowed to apply corporal punishment to their pupils, or parents allowed to spank their children. Obviously Werner would never get away with this violence [legal assault and battery] these daysand his act would have been viewed as indefensible. 4. Finally, if what I have said here is untrue, then Werner would deem this story libellous. Landmark Education (even more so than Scientology) have lawyers who will go after anyone who tries to tarnish the good name of their avatar. 5. I had light bruises on my arms from being ejected from Werner's lecture. The Landmark/Werner people: they do their business through word of mouth only. But they keep their ears to the ground, and it is quite possible one or more of them will challenge my accountmaybe it has already happened. Love that Werner fella. Such a nice human being. See? Even after being purportedly enlightened (now not enlightened) I still have hatred in my heart. But that Werner Erhard, he almost could give Maharishi a run for his money. But Maharishi would, in a one-on-one encounter (in the seventies at least) somehow blow Werner out of the water, for MMY's context (also in the end deceitful in my opinion) was more powerful than Werner's, which is why, as the so-called enlightened guy (via TM and MMY), I figured I could take the measure of Wernerand believe I would have done so had he not physically prevented me. But Werner would have insisted he only acted on the basis of protocol. He was a stickler for rules, as you may know. If someone violated those rules, one must show no mercy. Werner believes his metaphysical totalitarianism forces the truth out of people. So, from his point of view, the strict enforcement of rules insures that his reality is triumphant in the end, and in effect, is the guardian of the integrity of the person who is the potential beneficiary of his system. But I choose to put a more self-serving interpretation upon his act: He had a distinct presentiment that he was going to be challenged in a way that might just smash open the metaphysical falseness of his context. Not that he knew it was false. But before I spoke, he periodically stared at me, as if to say: "Don't you dare say anything". [He already knew all about me, and could not misread the significance of my presence in a lecture that was closed to his teachers and his staff. Someone had betrayed him.] By the way, when is someone on this blog going to out and out agree with me on something? It's starting to rankle, this constant challenging of what I have to say. Isn't there SOMEONE out there willing to become a devotee of the ex-enlightened man? Thanks, by the way, seventhray1. As a famous saint once said (and I believe her): "Everything is grace". But you have to really 'get' [thanks for annexing so perfectly that word, Werner] what she means. When you do, it makes sense of EVERYTHING. But, as you know, it all depends on your level of consciousness (MMY). >
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
maskedzebra, "I am fairly new around here, .. But life will eventually get around to it one way or another." ( RESPONSE: your sweeping opinions and generalizations are noted and your contempt and disapproval for the topic also noted. You appear to see yourself as a "writer" and you are comfortable presenting little or no distinction between your fictions and reality/facts. I have nothing to add but that. Thanks anyway. )
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
maskedzebra, "I am fairly new around here, .. But life will eventually get around to it one way or another." ( RESPONSE: your opinions are noted and your contempt and disapproval also noted. You appear to see yourself as a "writer" , and are content presenting your sacred fictions with an insufficient interest i facts for my liking. I have nothing to add but that. Thanks anyway. )
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra wrote: > I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered the method of tracking down a post that I once read. For instance, your query about Werner Erhard. Can't find it anywhere, and I have searched long enough. But I would like to elaborate on that incident which I described when Werner attacked me physically (along with his assistants). Uh, you kind of wimped out on this part, (at least in this post). I kept reading through the more philosophical parts to get the "attack" part, but it never really came. "He attacked me" You see this on the 10:00 news a lot. Not exactly bait and switch. More like get the reader interested, but don't quite deliver the goods.
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
Dear blastedactresses, I am fairly new around here, and I guess I haven't mastered the method of tracking down a post that I once read. For instance, your query about Werner Erhard. Can't find it anywhere, and I have searched long enough. But I would like to elaborate on that incident which I described when Werner attacked me physically (along with his assistants). You see Werner employs a totalitarian metaphysical technique (est, The Forum, now Landmark Education), which dislocates the person's real personality such that the Landmark graduate IS UNABLE TO REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE WHO THEY WERE BEFORE THE TRAINING. I have had plenty of close encounters with est/Erhardized human beings, and what is immediately clear to me is the absence of the ability to reflect critically or objectively upon their experience of est, The Forum, Landmark Education. They have been quite literally reprogrammedseemingly even at a neurological level. They are not the person they once were, and they are convinced ONTOLOGICALLY that the universe and self that Werner (or his trainers) have created for them to experience is the true one. And they look pityingly at those who are not yet existing inside the Werner universe, with the Werner sense of self, the Werner sense of what is real. But the metaphysical context within which they are now held (after undergoing the training) separates them from realityregardless of how much more efficient, clear, and liberated they feeland ACT. For Landmark Education WORKS. Works almost perfectly. But works here means: transforms the context of one's experience of oneself and reality. Only problem is that this new experience of oneself and reality bears no relationship to the real person they once were, nor to the reality they once problematically found themselves inside of. They have been transported out of their past and into a now which deprives them utterly of the complexity, the tragedy, the suffering, the tenderness, the contradiction of what it means to be a human person. It is a hideous state of consciousness, a state of consciousness which anaesthetizes them to all that is vulnerable and terrifying and beautiful about living as a self-conscious being with free will inside the universe. But the indoctrination and reprogramming is so perfect and so subtle that the person is rendered incapable of ever questioning what has happened to themmuch less is the person able to reflect upon the philosophy which they now experience as constituting their relationship to reality. I had the opportunity to meet with Werner at a private house party, and later to meet persons who were undergoing the process of becoming trainers (this was the est era). I started out very open and respectful of Werner and his system, but cameagainst my willto realize he was destroying the actual connection between a human being and reality. Reality came to mean what you choose it to be. And what happened to you was somewhere what you willed to happen. This belief system was instilled at the level of the very nerves of the person who had undergone the trainingso that afterwards they wereI mean this in a very real senseWerner zombieshowever creative, intelligent, successful (more so perhaps than before) they seemed. It was with this perspective, born of my meeting with dozens of est graduates (and especially Werner himself), that I wrote about Werner, and then decided to challenge himnot so much, you must believe me, to vindicate my own philosophy, but to transgress the universe he had createdwhich I knew to be false, and which I knew he was determinedon his lifeto insulate from all criticism. His violent response to mehe instantly knew what I was about to do when I stood up to ask a questionwas shocking, but, in retrospect understandable. Werner will not allow his philosophy to be challenged. In fact the whole training insures that it CANNOT be challenged. There is tremendous power and integrity in all those who have been trained to lead the Landmark Education Seminars. These people feel no pain and they are brilliantly effective in deconstructingand then demolishingevery trace of the conscious and unconscious system the person has employed to make it in the world before they entered that seminar room. It is in my opinion almost impossible to preserve the sensation of what it was like to be who you were once you have been taken through the transformative process of Landmark Education. And once reprogrammed, life has a hard time convincing the person they are profoundly and utterly deceived. They are indeed deceived, but the system Werner has inculcated in them is designed to enable them to defend (without being defensive) the validity of their philosophy because, you see, it is being lived out on the pulse of their very being. Only the est/Landmark Education sense of beingness (Werner's version of beingness) is the enemy of the bei
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
maskedzerbra "I hate categorical judgmentsespecially when they put me in a negative light." But you are comfortable causally posting "categorical judgments" about other entities or other people that put them or it in a so called "negative light". That is the status quo on the internet, yes?
[FairfieldLife] Re: No Ground
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, blastedactresses wrote: > > "Dear maskedzebra - all I see is a lot of intellectual jugglery and nothing > concrete. Can you please, if it's even possible for you, describe in a few > lines each on your enlightenment, the reasons why you thought it was mystical > deceit and your current de-enlightenment process. Please use generic terms - > there's someone like me who has no knowledge of CC, GC and shudderthank > god I don't :-). " > > > ( Accuracy, detail, substance, and specifics appear to be the kryptonite > of most message broad presentations. > > " Intellectual jugglery" and total absence of " concrete" facts are the main > styles of all that is sold on line. When asked for specifics, all the > reasons for not providing any will be trotted out along with a series of > obfuscations and misdirection, all with an utmost of lofty plausible could > be sounding big words to make one appear intelligent. > > Opinions and spin and personal points of views misrepresented as facts is > the basis of all that can be found in these discussions, for the most part. > ) RESPONSE: Hey blastedactresses: Before I lose you altogether, I'd better take a crack at the Werner probe of yours (previous post). Would you be willing to suspend your judgment (as expressed here) if I come through on that topicproviding more detail about my personal encounter with WE? Also, I aim to respond to Ravi's questions when I can get to them. I am intrigued by your name: blastedactresses. I hate categorical judgmentsespecially when they put me in a negative light. But I'll do my best to fight your theory, BA. >
