[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? Are you speaking from personal experience? or from your understanding of what the behavior of enlightened people looks like? Who can know what the behavior of enlightened people looks like? TMO has perpetuated dangerous notions that have led to many thinking they know how it should look, both inner and outer. Digging out of 35 years of experience in that organization that has now become a dark hole of desperation. So much for warnings by MMY against moodmaking... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? Are you speaking from personal experience? or from your understanding of what the behavior of enlightened people looks like? Who can know what the behavior of enlightened people looks like? TMO has perpetuated dangerous notions that have led to many thinking they know how it should look, both inner and outer. Digging out of 35 years of experience in that organization that has now become a dark hole of desperation. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously.how does anyone ever know??? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe anyone ever does, in an absolute sense. Life is one long continuum, from evolution to dissolution and over and over again, so 'enlightenment' as we call it, is a step whereby we recognize that our sense of ourselves transcends the limitations that our prior evolution has placed on us. We are larger than we ever imagined, and live and experience this as reality. It seems as if that state is only called 'enlightenment' because the common experience in daily life and locked within our DNA is that we *are* in fact the sum of our limitations. It is how worlds are built typically on Earth, now. That whole 'not enough resources, grab what you can' mentality is a result of living as self-limited beings. So, when we stop living the surrealistic reality of our assumed limitations, and become free, we are said to then be 'enlightened'. But it is merely relative to what our past experience has been. In reality, there is no actual enlightenment. It is just an evolutionary stage we are very, very fond of here on Earth, around which a consensus has formed with regard to its desirability. On the one hand, it is a significant achievement, a milestone of growth, and on the other hand it is no different really from the achievements we have achieved all of our lives. Perhaps we prize it so greatly because of the subjective experience both of inner and outer freedom, and the knowledge, ability, responsibility and love that comes with it. All admirable qualities. It both encompasses and transforms the human experience. And yet, once this state of inner and outer freedom is reached, life goes on, relative responsibilities and achievements continue, and one day we will look a long way back and realize that 'enlightenment', that which seemed so important once, is not so relevant to our lives, that the importance of that awakening has faded over the years, like the memory of a favorite relative, or the significant achievement of learning to walk as a young child. Yet, on the horizon of our timeless lives ...another enlightenment beckons... Forgive please but what does your believing have to do with the Truth of it? Interesting it is in this group how so many are so eager to let others know what their thinking is on enlightenment. What is your thinking on it? What good is it to think on it? Mental masturbation, this suppostion on the qualities of enlightenment. Is that all you can do because you are 'brahmachari'-- *mental* masturbation? I don't do sex in any fashion. Mental or otherwise. Brahmachari definition is not limited to sex. Truth. TMO fallout.EGO. So you've had bad experiences with the TMO? No, I had good experiences at the time, but found out these experiences really didn't provide Truth nor enlightenment. No regrets. Flowery words making it sound as if there is none, yet the proferring itself betrays. What are you talking about? Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? Just a few in this group actually contribute references within their paths of practice without the personal commentary of what they think they know. More useful and true to the mission of this group, it would be if more of such contributions were posted. What is the mission of this group, as you see it? It's obvious that garrulity rules. Let me tell you what I think...EGO may not be the mission but it appears clearly. A place for worthless banter on subjects equally worthless from a group of supposedly spiritually advanced practitioners. Save for a few gems. Worthless as well, this post. To each his own... Indeed. What do I know. Nothing
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 1, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Peter wrote: --- brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? The incentive to act is the same in the enlightened as well as the unenlightened. Just that the unenlightened think that they do it. The enlightened know that nobody does anything. It just happens like the rising and setting of the sun. But this understanding is utterly useless for the dharma of waking state, that's for sure! The enlightened know that? Bumper sticker I'd like to see: Narcissus loves me. Beautiful Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you and I even all that different? We are One but we are quite different. Explain please? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you and I even all that different? We are One but we are quite different. Explain please? Sorry, I just don't spend each day sitting at my computer looking at what is being said here and wondering what to say. I don't doubt your sincerity and the love you display in your posts. Peace. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you and I even all that different? We are One but we are quite different. Explain please? Sorry, I just don't spend each day sitting at my computer looking at what is being said here and wondering what to say. I don't doubt your sincerity and the love you display in your posts. Peace. You just did [spend each day sitting at my computer looking at what is being said] , but that is beside the point...I was actually asking for an explanation of the paradoxical nature of your earlier statement. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Nov 2, 2005, at 1:17 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 1, 2005, at 3:38 PM, brahmachari108 wrote: Notions of CC, GC, UC are inventions of Mahesh Yogi. Where in Veda are these mentioned? What is above or below in the state of Turiya? CC = samkhya and yoga GC = mimamsa and Vaishnava devotionalism. UC = Badarayana sutras and numerous other places. Definitive work on CC and UC is jivanmuktiviveka of Shankaracharya Vidyaranya. Mahesh weaned his take on these from reading the various commentaries of the Badaraynana sutras, esp. favoring Shankara's bhasya/comments/POV. Sez me old friend, Sanskrit and Vedic music scholar, Anoop Chandola, "no-one can listen to him [MMY] without realizing that he is obviously speaking from personal experience..." Consensus gentium and argumentum ad verecundiam. No one? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Objectively? I belive MMY says that levitation is proof of samadhi. I suppose this means that if a person who is a known TMSP-practitioner repeatedly can take-off, hoover and settle down in a controlled manner, chances are this person is CC or above. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Horse crap. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How so? Notions of CC, GC, UC are inventions of Mahesh Yogi. Where in Veda are these mentioned? What is above or below in the state of Turiya? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously.how does anyone ever know??? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe anyone ever does, in an absolute sense. Life is one long continuum, from evolution to dissolution and over and over again, so 'enlightenment' as we call it, is a step whereby we recognize that our sense of ourselves transcends the limitations that our prior evolution has placed on us. We are larger than we ever imagined, and live and experience this as reality. It seems as if that state is only called 'enlightenment' because the common experience in daily life and locked within our DNA is that we *are* in fact the sum of our limitations. It is how worlds are built typically on Earth, now. That whole 'not enough resources, grab what you can' mentality is a result of living as self-limited beings. So, when we stop living the surrealistic reality of our assumed limitations, and become free, we are said to then be 'enlightened'. But it is merely relative to what our past experience has been. In reality, there is no actual enlightenment. It is just an evolutionary stage we are very, very fond of here on Earth, around which a consensus has formed with regard to its desirability. On the one hand, it is a significant achievement, a milestone of growth, and on the other hand it is no different really from the achievements we have achieved all of our lives. Perhaps we prize it so greatly because of the subjective experience both of inner and outer freedom, and the knowledge, ability, responsibility and love that comes with it. All admirable qualities. It both encompasses and transforms the human experience. And yet, once this state of inner and outer freedom is reached, life goes on, relative responsibilities and achievements continue, and one day we will look a long way back and realize that 'enlightenment', that which seemed so important once, is not so relevant to our lives, that the importance of that awakening has faded over the years, like the memory of a favorite relative, or the significant achievement of learning to walk as a young child. Yet, on the horizon of our timeless lives ...another enlightenment beckons... Forgive please but what does your believing have to do with the Truth of it? Interesting it is in this group how so many are so eager to let others know what their thinking is on enlightenment. What is your thinking on it? What good is it to think on it? Mental masturbation, this suppostion on the qualities of enlightenment. Is that all you can do because you are 'brahmachari'-- *mental* masturbation? I don't do sex in any fashion. Mental or otherwise. Brahmachari definition is not limited to sex. Truth. TMO fallout.EGO. So you've had bad experiences with the TMO? No, I had good experiences at the time, but found out these experiences really didn't provide Truth nor enlightenment. No regrets. Flowery words making it sound as if there is none, yet the proferring itself betrays. What are you talking about? Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? Just a few in this group actually contribute references within their paths of practice without the personal commentary of what they think they know. More useful and true to the mission of this group, it would be if more of such contributions were posted. What is the mission of this group, as you see it? It's obvious that garrulity rules. Let me tell you what I think...EGO may not be the mission but it appears clearly. A place for worthless banter on subjects equally worthless from a group of supposedly spiritually advanced practitioners. Save for a few gems. Worthless as well, this post. To each his own... Indeed. What do I know. Nothing personal... Peace. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seriously.how does anyone ever know??? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't believe anyone ever does, in an absolute sense. Life is one long continuum, from evolution to dissolution and over and over again, so 'enlightenment' as we call it, is a step whereby we recognize that our sense of ourselves transcends the limitations that our prior evolution has placed on us. We are larger than we ever imagined, and live and experience this as reality. It seems as if that state is only called 'enlightenment' because the common experience in daily life and locked within our DNA is that we *are* in fact the sum of our limitations. It is how worlds are built typically on Earth, now. That whole 'not enough resources, grab what you can' mentality is a result of living as self-limited beings. So, when we stop living the surrealistic reality of our assumed limitations, and become free, we are said to then be 'enlightened'. But it is merely relative to what our past experience has been. In reality, there is no actual enlightenment. It is just an evolutionary stage we are very, very fond of here on Earth, around which a consensus has formed with regard to its desirability. On the one hand, it is a significant achievement, a milestone of growth, and on the other hand it is no different really from the achievements we have achieved all of our lives. Perhaps we prize it so greatly because of the subjective experience both of inner and outer freedom, and the knowledge, ability, responsibility and love that comes with it. All admirable qualities. It both encompasses and transforms the human experience. And yet, once this state of inner and outer freedom is reached, life goes on, relative responsibilities and achievements continue, and one day we will look a long way back and realize that 'enlightenment', that which seemed so important once, is not so relevant to our lives, that the importance of that awakening has faded over the years, like the memory of a favorite relative, or the significant achievement of learning to walk as a young child. Yet, on the horizon of our timeless lives ...another enlightenment beckons... Forgive please but what does your believing have to do with the Truth of it? Interesting it is in this group how so many are so eager to let others know what their thinking is on enlightenment. What is your thinking on it? What good is it to think on it? Mental masturbation, this suppostion on the qualities of enlightenment. Is that all you can do because you are 'brahmachari'-- *mental* masturbation? I don't do sex in any fashion. Mental or otherwise. Brahmachari definition is not limited to sex. Truth. TMO fallout.EGO. So you've had bad experiences with the TMO? No, I had good experiences at the time, but found out these experiences really didn't provide Truth nor enlightenment. No regrets. Flowery words making it sound as if there is none, yet the proferring itself betrays. What are you talking about? Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? Just a few in this group actually contribute references within their paths of practice without the personal commentary of what they think they know. More useful and true to the mission of this group, it would be if more of such contributions were posted. What is the mission of this group, as you see it? It's obvious that garrulity rules. Let me tell you what I think...EGO may not be the mission but it appears clearly. A place for worthless banter on subjects equally worthless from a group of supposedly spiritually advanced practitioners. Save for a few gems. Worthless as well, this post. To each his own... Indeed. What do I know. Nothing personal... Peace. And peace to you. Someone once said that it is easy to be a critic. I personally enjoy sharing experiences and commenting on them. It is all pretty light-hearted actually. And if there are a few gems amongst all the dross, so be
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Nov 1, 2005, at 3:38 PM, brahmachari108 wrote: Notions of CC, GC, UC are inventions of Mahesh Yogi. Where in Veda are these mentioned? What is above or below in the state of Turiya? CC = samkhya and yoga GC = mimamsa and Vaishnava devotionalism. UC = Badarayana sutras and numerous other places. Definitive work on CC and UC is jivanmuktiviveka of Shankaracharya Vidyaranya. Mahesh weaned his take on these from reading the various commentaries of the Badaraynana sutras, esp. favoring Shankara's bhasya/comments/POV. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
On Nov 1, 2005, at 3:55 PM, brahmachari108 wrote: Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? applause A fully enlightened Buddha cannot declare himself enlightened as it will harm other sentient beings. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? The incentive to act is the same in the enlightened as well as the unenlightened. Just that the unenlightened think that they do it. The enlightened know that nobody does anything. It just happens like the rising and setting of the sun. But this understanding is utterly useless for the dharma of waking state, that's for sure! __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
--- brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? Are you speaking from personal experience? or from your understanding of what the behavior of enlightened people looks like? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment..
On Nov 1, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Peter wrote: --- brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Reading your words and most others on their proclamations betrays the level of so called enlightenment. Do you think that if someone were truly enlightened, he would feel the need to tell others? What other exists in enlightenment? If enlightenment is egoless, then what drives this need? The incentive to act is the same in the enlightened as well as the unenlightened. Just that the unenlightened think that they do it. The enlightened know that nobody does anything. It just happens like the rising and setting of the sun. But this understanding is utterly useless for the dharma of waking state, that's for sure! The enlightened know that? Bumper sticker I'd like to see: Narcissus loves me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 1, 2005, at 3:38 PM, brahmachari108 wrote: Notions of CC, GC, UC are inventions of Mahesh Yogi. Where in Veda are these mentioned? What is above or below in the state of Turiya? CC = samkhya and yoga GC = mimamsa and Vaishnava devotionalism. UC = Badarayana sutras and numerous other places. Definitive work on CC and UC is jivanmuktiviveka of Shankaracharya Vidyaranya. Mahesh weaned his take on these from reading the various commentaries of the Badaraynana sutras, esp. favoring Shankara's bhasya/comments/POV. Sez me old friend, Sanskrit and Vedic music scholar, Anoop Chandola, no-one can listen to him [MMY] without realizing that he is obviously speaking from personal experience... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Yes, speaking from personal experience, is the gift. Knowledge in the books, stays in the books; Until someone can live what is written. It's all just words on a page. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 1, 2005, at 3:38 PM, brahmachari108 wrote: Notions of CC, GC, UC are inventions of Mahesh Yogi. Where in Veda are these mentioned? What is above or below in the state of Turiya? CC = samkhya and yoga GC = mimamsa and Vaishnava devotionalism. UC = Badarayana sutras and numerous other places. Definitive work on CC and UC is jivanmuktiviveka of Shankaracharya Vidyaranya. Mahesh weaned his take on these from reading the various commentaries of the Badaraynana sutras, esp. favoring Shankara's bhasya/comments/POV. Sez me old friend, Sanskrit and Vedic music scholar, Anoop Chandola, no-one can listen to him [MMY] without realizing that he is obviously speaking from personal experience... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. Hmmm. I would be one of those skeptics. Exactly where, after 30 years or so, are these photographs that show the kind of levitation you're talking about? Could it possibly be that, after 30 years or so, you're still assuming that what Maharishi said is true just because he said it? :-) sure, but I'm not claiming that TM-Sidhis levitation has happened or has ever happened, while YOU, in the context of discussing what most of us assume is TM-Sidhis levitation, DO assert that it happens and that you have witnessed it. And? I *have* seen it, many times. Therefore, it falls *for me* into a different category of experience than something that has only been talked about or speculated about. I have no need to convince others that what I witnessed was some kind of Grand Truth or anything. Some TMers, on the other hand, seem to be rather obsessive about declaring their *speculation* -- something that they've never seen -- to be Truth. Of course, you object to the objective observer aspect of the TM-sidhis claim because you have already admitted that YOUR definition of levitation doesn't require that it exist independently of the receptivity of the observer. I.E., no cameras, videos, and no million dollar prize possible from James Randi. I don't object to those things; I just think they're kinda silly, that's all, the kind of thing that someone who is trying to convince someone of something engages in. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. But having a double standard, you see--an easy one for yourself and a tough one for everybody else-- is a sign of advanced spiritual development, a recognition that the universe isn't required to obey human rules of logic and consistency if they get in your way. Apples and oranges, Judy. If Lawson were saying he had *witnessed* true levitation, then we'd be comparing apples to apples. As far as I remember, he hasn't. I have. For me, the phenomenon is part of my subjective experience. I need no objective verification of it, no more than I do for any other subjective experience I've had in my life. And I have no need to try to convince anyone it was true. Lawson is talking about a *theoretical* way of verifying something he has never witnessed. He's talking about a theoretical way that someone who believes in something could use to convince someone else that the something is real. I guess that photos are a nice enough way to do that, if what is important to you in life is convinc- ing other people that what you believe is some kinda Truth, but it seems like a waste of time to me. The bottom line is that people are going to believe what they want to believe -- no amount of evidence that you show them is going to convince them to believe anything that they *don't* want to believe. But don't let any of that stop you in your ongoing attempts to impose what you believe on the world as some kind of Truth. *Somebody's* got to be the obligatory religious fanatic on this group...might as well be you. :-) Asking for independent confirmation of an alleged phenomenon is now called being a religious fanatic? My snippy remark was aimed at Judy, not you. She's made a career out of trying to prove her point of view correct on the Internet. You have not. My point with regard to your request for independent confirmation of the sidhis is based on my sincere belief that the quest for independent confirmation of such things is pretty much equivalent to Don Quixote's quest. Nothing you ever find will prove anything. I'm amazed sometimes at the *naivete* of the TMO. They seem to believe that if you trot out enough scientific proof of something, everyone will believe it and get on board with the program. Naive to a fault -- the belief system of a bunch of people who never leave their hotels and interact on a one-on-one basis with real people. If they had, they would know that you can present seemingly *irrefutable* proof of something to people until you're blue in the face, and those people are going to believe what they want to believe anyway. And when it comes to levitation, what would consitute proof? Photographs? In this age of Photoshop and digital touchups, photos are inadmissible in *court* in many states as proof. Same with film, in the age of Final Cut. What, after all, does an easily-altered photo or film prove? If you're committed to believing that levitation doesn't exist, neither of these things will prove the opposite to you. My point is simply that these phenomena -- witnessing the sidhis being manifested -- are so mind-boggling in an energetic way that
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apples and oranges, Judy. If Lawson were saying he had *witnessed* true levitation, then we'd be comparing apples to apples. As far as I remember, he hasn't. I have. For me, the phenomenon is part of my subjective experience. I need no objective verification of it, no more than I do for any other subjective experience I've had in my life. And I have no need to try to convince anyone it was true. You got rather pissed off, as I recall, when Shemp expressed skepticism awhile back. You recall incorrectly. Nothing anyone has *ever* said on FFL has ever gotten me pissed off. I think you're projecting again. :-) You may not need objective verification, but you're very firmly attached to the notion that your *subjective* experience was something more than fantasy on your part. Nope. If it was a fantasy, it was a rather persistent one, but that's always possible. What amuses me is the attempt by people such as yourself and Shemp to *label* it a fantasy because the experiences of some- one who has witnessed levitation don't jibe with the theories of someone (yourselves) who have not. :-) Lawson is talking about a *theoretical* way of verifying something he has never witnessed. He's talking about a theoretical way that someone who believes in something could use to convince someone else that the something is real. I guess that photos are a nice enough way to do that, You'd need more than photos (or film, for that matter) for convincing purposes, obviously, because they can be faked. The point of mentioning photos is to define the nature of the performance, i.e., it will show up on film, not just in your mind. For convincing, you would have to have live performance and objective measurements. NOTHING you could come up with in the realm of proof would EVER convince 40% of the people on the planet that levitation was real. Get over it. THAT is a fantasy. (got bored with the subject, snipt the rest...you can project your own reasons onto why...my reason is that this morning it's bright an sunny and unseasonably warm here and entering into *any* discussion with you seems like more of a waste of time than usual...so argue among yourself if you need an argument, ok? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I'm talking about events like the New York City Marathon that all kinds of ordinary people run in, BTW--people who have regular jobs, moms with kids, and so on. If it were as debilitating as you suggest, they wouldn't be able to participate. And I've seen interviews with or stories about quite a few over the years. Never saw any of them say their health was destroyed, even temporarily. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe none ofthem are attempting to beat the world record. The olympic level athletes reportedly have at least short-term health problems after the run. Ah, OK. My analogy to the TM-Sidhis was training to *run* a marathon, not training to *win* a marathon, let alone beat a world record. I was thinking just of the ordinary person who wants to get physically fit, not to become an Olympic athlete. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/15/05 10:54 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe none ofthem are attempting to beat the world record. The olympic level athletes reportedly have at least short-term health problems after the run. This topic has morphed. It would be good to change the subject line. I think we've resolved it; and in any case, it was still relevant, at least in terms of the purpose of the TM-Sidhis. (I had suggested an analogy of training to run a marathon with the goal of becoming fit, the ability to run a marathon being a benchmark of fitness.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Lawson is talking about a *theoretical* way of verifying something he has never witnessed. He's talking about a theoretical way that someone who believes in something could use to convince someone else that the something is real. No, he wasn't. He was talking about MMY's criteria for real levitation. *You* injected the idea of proof for the purpose of convincing others. snip But don't let any of that stop you in your ongoing attempts to impose what you believe on the world as some kind of Truth. *Somebody's* got to be the obligatory religious fanatic on this group...might as well be you. :-) Asking for independent confirmation of an alleged phenomenon is now called being a religious fanatic? My snippy remark was aimed at Judy, not you. She's made a career out of trying to prove her point of view correct on the Internet. You have not. I've made a career of trying to prove that being agnostic about levitation is correct? Agnosticism is religious fanaticism?? My point with regard to your request for independent confirmation of the sidhis is based on my sincere belief that the quest for independent confirmation of such things is pretty much equivalent to Don Quixote's quest. Nothing you ever find will prove anything. And I challenged this argument in the part of my earlier response that you decided you weren't able to deal with. It's not as black-and-white as you suggest. snip And when it comes to levitation, what would consitute proof? Photographs? In this age of Photoshop and digital touchups, photos are inadmissible in *court* in many states as proof. Same with film, in the age of Final Cut. What, after all, does an easily-altered photo or film prove? If you're committed to believing that levitation doesn't exist, neither of these things will prove the opposite to you. Photos or film were not proposed (also in the part of my earlier post you decided you weren't able to deal with) as proof but rather as MMY's criteria for levitation, i.e., that its nature is such that it shows up on film, rather than just in one's mind. As far as convincing others is concerned, it would be a matter of seeing levitation live. As I said in my earlier post, photos or film wouldn't cut it because they can be too easily faked. For more on why your argument about convincing others is faulty, see the parts of my earlier post that you decided you weren't able to deal with. snip No-one has said your experience is invalid. All *I* have said is that its not what I define as Yogic Flying, floating stage, since that is supposed to be independently verifiable. Supposed to be? As if the person who told you that is infallible? Are you looking to determine the truth of the situation or to verify that person's opinion? :-) No, we're talking about a definition of, or criteria for, real levitation. *You* brought up the notion of proof for the purposes of convincing others. That's a separate issue (one I dealt with in the parts of my earlier post that you decided you weren't able to deal with). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Apples and oranges, Judy. If Lawson were saying he had *witnessed* true levitation, then we'd be comparing apples to apples. As far as I remember, he hasn't. I have. For me, the phenomenon is part of my subjective experience. I need no objective verification of it, no more than I do for any other subjective experience I've had in my life. And I have no need to try to convince anyone it was true. You got rather pissed off, as I recall, when Shemp expressed skepticism awhile back. You recall incorrectly. Nothing anyone has *ever* said on FFL has ever gotten me pissed off. Not that you're willing to admit to, at any rate, the evidence of your obviously pissed-off attacks on Shemp notwithstanding. I think you're projecting again. :-) You may not need objective verification, but you're very firmly attached to the notion that your *subjective* experience was something more than fantasy on your part. Nope. If it was a fantasy, it was a rather persistent one, but that's always possible. What amuses me is the attempt by people such as yourself and Shemp to *label* it a fantasy Ooopsy-daisy. Nope, I never labeled your experience a fantasy. That was Shemp, and you rather viciously attacked him for it. because the experiences of some- one who has witnessed levitation don't jibe with the theories of someone (yourselves) who have not. :-) Pas moi, mon vieux. I'm agnostic both about the kind of levitation you claim you witnessed subjectively, and about the kind that would register on film. Lawson is talking about a *theoretical* way of verifying something he has never witnessed. He's talking about a theoretical way that someone who believes in something could use to convince someone else that the something is real. I guess that photos are a nice enough way to do that, You'd need more than photos (or film, for that matter) for convincing purposes, obviously, because they can be faked. The point of mentioning photos is to define the nature of the performance, i.e., it will show up on film, not just in your mind. For convincing, you would have to have live performance and objective measurements. NOTHING you could come up with in the realm of proof would EVER convince 40% of the people on the planet that levitation was real. Get over it. THAT is a fantasy. (got bored with the subject, snipt the rest...you can project your own reasons onto why...my reason is that this morning it's bright an sunny and unseasonably warm here and entering into *any* discussion with you seems like more of a waste of time than usual...so argue among yourself if you need an argument, ok? :-) Actually your reason is that you decided you couldn't deal with my challenge to your argument about nothing ever convincing people. Just for fun, I'm going to reproduce it below: if what is important to you in life is convinc- ing other people that what you believe is some kinda Truth, [Added today: Remember that *you* introduced the idea of convincing people. Lawson was talking about criteria. Two different issues.] but it seems like a waste of time to me. The bottom line is that people are going to believe what they want to believe -- no amount of evidence that you show them is going to convince them to believe anything that they *don't* want to believe. But it isn't black and white, you see. There are different degrees of resistance, and repeated exposure to objective evidence can whittle it down. You could be absolutely convinced to start with that flying isn't possible, but it's going to be hard to maintain that belief if people are flying all around you on a regular basis. That's one end of the scale. In the middle, you may be willing to believe it's possible, and then become convinced once you see people flying. And on the other end of the scale, a Yogic Flying practitioner who is convinced it's possible *except in the gut*--as we were talking about earlier--is likely to give up the gut resistance if s/he's doing group program and sees others flying. I mean, we believe a lot of stuff about how the world works that isn't true largely because everybody *else* believes it--consensus reality. An individual's belief system isn't a closed loop; it's open to external influence. But don't let any of that stop you in your ongoing attempts to impose what you believe on the world as some kind of Truth. *Somebody's* got to be the obligatory religious fanatic on this group...might as well be you. :-) But see, I could make exactly the same argument even if I were totally convinced it *wasn't* possible to fly. As usual, you're making an unwarranted assumption for the sake
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Lawson is talking about a *theoretical* way of verifying something he has never witnessed. He's talking about a theoretical way that someone who believes in something could use to convince someone else that the something is real. No, he wasn't. He was talking about MMY's criteria for real levitation. *You* injected the idea of proof for the purpose of convincing others. snip But don't let any of that stop you in your ongoing attempts to impose what you believe on the world as some kind of Truth. *Somebody's* got to be the obligatory religious fanatic on this group...might as well be you. :-) Asking for independent confirmation of an alleged phenomenon is now called being a religious fanatic? My snippy remark was aimed at Judy, not you. She's made a career out of trying to prove her point of view correct on the Internet. You have not. I've made a career of trying to prove that being agnostic about levitation is correct? Agnosticism is religious fanaticism?? My point with regard to your request for independent confirmation of the sidhis is based on my sincere belief that the quest for independent confirmation of such things is pretty much equivalent to Don Quixote's quest. Nothing you ever find will prove anything. And I challenged this argument in the part of my earlier response that you decided you weren't able to deal with. It's not as black-and-white as you suggest. snip And when it comes to levitation, what would consitute proof? Photographs? In this age of Photoshop and digital touchups, photos are inadmissible in *court* in many states as proof. Same with film, in the age of Final Cut. What, after all, does an easily-altered photo or film prove? If you're committed to believing that levitation doesn't exist, neither of these things will prove the opposite to you. Photos or film were not proposed (also in the part of my earlier post you decided you weren't able to deal with) as proof but rather as MMY's criteria for levitation, i.e., that its nature is such that it shows up on film, rather than just in one's mind. As far as convincing others is concerned, it would be a matter of seeing levitation live. As I said in my earlier post, photos or film wouldn't cut it because they can be too easily faked. For more on why your argument about convincing others is faulty, see the parts of my earlier post that you decided you weren't able to deal with. snip No-one has said your experience is invalid. All *I* have said is that its not what I define as Yogic Flying, floating stage, since that is supposed to be independently verifiable. Supposed to be? As if the person who told you that is infallible? Are you looking to determine the truth of the situation or to verify that person's opinion? :-) No, we're talking about a definition of, or criteria for, real levitation. *You* brought up the notion of proof for the purposes of convincing others. That's a separate issue (one I dealt with in the parts of my earlier post that you decided you weren't able to deal with). Meanwhile, back in Paris, Unc, just returned from a wonderful walk along the Seine and a viewing of the new Wallace and Gromit movie, clicks on the computer, reads how Judy spent *her* morning, and feels a moment of compassion. But then he thinks to himself, Self, isn't it fascinating how people who have never experienced something feel the need to define and categorize it, while those who have don't seem to give definitions much thought? I guess that's what makes them happy, and if it makes them happy, cool. Then he pours himself a nice glass of wine, and steps out onto the balcony to sit in the sun and enjoy the rest of the afternoon. It's too nice a day to get all stuck inside a head -- your own or someone else's. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip No, we're talking about a definition of, or criteria for, real levitation. *You* brought up the notion of proof for the purposes of convincing others. That's a separate issue (one I dealt with in the parts of my earlier post that you decided you weren't able to deal with). Meanwhile, back in Paris, Unc, just returned from a wonderful walk along the Seine and a viewing of the new Wallace and Gromit movie, clicks on the computer, reads how Judy spent *her* morning, Oops, you forgot my wonderful early-morning stroll on the beautiful beach in the fresh, clean ocean air before making a few posts to FFL. and feels a moment of compassion. But then he thinks to himself, Self, isn't it fascinating how people who have never experienced something feel the need to define and categorize it, while those who have don't seem to give definitions much thought? Except that even those who *have* experienced it may enjoy defining and categorizing it, just for the sheer fun of exercising the intellect. (Also note that the proposed definitions and categorizations in this case Barry was only too happy to go to considerable trouble and length to trash in an attempt to defend *his* position that defining and categorizing is a function of retarded spiritual development--as compared to his own, of course.) I guess that's what makes them happy, and if it makes them happy, cool. Then he pours himself a nice glass of wine, and steps out onto the balcony to sit in the sun and enjoy the rest of the afternoon. It's too nice a day to get all stuck inside a head -- your own or someone else's. Translation: My wonderful walk along the Seine and viewing of a movie whose characters are made of Plasticine have unfortunately not cleared my mind enough to allow me to attempt to respond to Judy's challenge to my argument, so I'll pretend I don't *want* to. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Oct 15, 2005, at 9:39 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 14, 2005, at 3:38 PM, authfriend wrote: The Patanjali sutras are yoga/samkhya darshana Judy and what is the result of yoga darshana Judy? I'll give you a hint, it begin with C... I wasn't aware there was a yoga darshana that had my name on it. How strange! Typical. Avoid the question. Why are you afraid to answer that question Judy? Vaj, the question is *irrelevant*. The topic is what MMY teaches about the purpose of TM-Sidhis practice, not what *you* believe is the purpose. Why are you afraid to deal with what MMY teaches? I thought you'd dodge the question again. I know this is painful for you. My dear, I am dealing with this by pointing out important discrepancies in what Patanjali taught and what Mahesh attempted. That's in no way to diminish that Mahesh used to present a great intro. method. It had it's good aspects. Sadly, it didn't pan out well, but maybe that's more than can be expected for a mass meditation movement--some issues are more personal and more one-on-one. When you're willing to talk about specifics of Patanjali/Yoga darshana/Samkhya darshana, write back. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 15, 2005, at 9:39 AM, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Typical. Avoid the question. Why are you afraid to answer that question Judy? Vaj, the question is *irrelevant*. The topic is what MMY teaches about the purpose of TM-Sidhis practice, not what *you* believe is the purpose. Why are you afraid to deal with what MMY teaches? I thought you'd dodge the question again. I know this is painful for you. Sorry, no, I'm finding it hilarious. Let me put it another way: The question is *irrelevant*. The topic is what MMY teaches about the purpose of TM-Sidhis practice, not what *you* believe is the purpose. Why are you afraid to deal with what MMY teaches? My dear, I am dealing with this by pointing out important discrepancies in what Patanjali taught and what Mahesh attempted. Well, no, what you're dealing with are what you believe are discrepancies between MMY's interpretation of Patanjali and the interpretation of Patanjali that you prefer. The only problem is, *you don't understand what MMY's interpretation IS*. As I said, you can't make a case that what somebody teaches is wrong, or even point out discrepancies between that and what somebody else teaches, if you don't know *what* the first person teach. And frankly, when you're so clueless about what it is that MMY teaches about Patanjali, I'm very dubious that you understand any other interpretation of Patanjali either. I'm sorry, but I don't have any basis for considering you an authority about *anything*. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I don't know that running a marathon could be said to destroy your health even temporarily. It certainly depletes your strength, but it doesn't take that long to recover if you're fit to start with. You start pissing blood and so on as your body digests itself during the run. Maybe some do, but I don't think it's very common. And even so, given that recovery is quick, I still wouldn't call that destroying your health. How quick is quick? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I don't know that running a marathon could be said to destroy your health even temporarily. It certainly depletes your strength, but it doesn't take that long to recover if you're fit to start with. You start pissing blood and so on as your body digests itself during the run. Maybe some do, but I don't think it's very common. And even so, given that recovery is quick, I still wouldn't call that destroying your health. How quick is quick? Few days, max. I'm talking about events like the New York City Marathon that all kinds of ordinary people run in, BTW--people who have regular jobs, moms with kids, and so on. If it were as debilitating as you suggest, they wouldn't be able to participate. And I've seen interviews with or stories about quite a few over the years. Never saw any of them say their health was destroyed, even temporarily. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I don't know that running a marathon could be said to destroy your health even temporarily. It certainly depletes your strength, but it doesn't take that long to recover if you're fit to start with. You start pissing blood and so on as your body digests itself during the run. Maybe some do, but I don't think it's very common. And even so, given that recovery is quick, I still wouldn't call that destroying your health. How quick is quick? Few days, max. I'm talking about events like the New York City Marathon that all kinds of ordinary people run in, BTW--people who have regular jobs, moms with kids, and so on. If it were as debilitating as you suggest, they wouldn't be able to participate. And I've seen interviews with or stories about quite a few over the years. Never saw any of them say their health was destroyed, even temporarily. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe none ofthem are attempting to beat the world record. The olympic level athletes reportedly have at least short-term health problems after the run. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
on 10/15/05 10:54 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe none ofthem are attempting to beat the world record. The olympic level athletes reportedly have at least short-term health problems after the run. This topic has morphed. It would be good to change the subject line. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. Haha.have you ever had someone tell you that you had reached enlightenment? It's a lot like someone informing you of a past life you don't remember; or getting the gas bill: Okeedoke, I'll take your word for it lol Seriously.how does anyone ever know??? Objectively? I belive MMY says that levitation is proof of samadhi. I suppose this means that if a person who is a known TMSP- practitioner repeatedly can take-off, hoover and settle down in a controlled manner, chances are this person is CC or above. Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. Haha.have you ever had someone tell you that you had reached enlightenment? It's a lot like someone informing you of a past life you don't remember; or getting the gas bill: Okeedoke, I'll take your word for it lol Seriously.how does anyone ever know??? Objectively? I belive MMY says that levitation is proof of samadhi. I suppose this means that if a person who is a known TMSP- practitioner repeatedly can take-off, hoover and settle down in a controlled manner, chances are this person is CC or above. Horse crap. I agree with you, but your Yoda syntax is slipping. I was growing fond of it. Shouldn't you have said, Horse crap, that is. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, brahmachari108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forgive please but what does your believing have to do with the Truth of it? Interesting it is in this group how so many are so eager to let others know what their thinking is on enlightenment. Mental masturbation, this suppostion on the qualities of enlightenment. TMO fallout.EGO. Flowery words making it sound as if there is none, yet the proferring itself betrays. Just a few in this group actually contribute references within their paths of practice without the personal commentary of what they think they know. More useful and true to the mission of this group, it would be if more of such contributions were posted. To use your phrase, horse crap. You seem to be saying that the only thing valid to offer on this forum is what we have been taught by other people. Leave it up to the 'experts.' Horse crap. Many of us here have had it up to here with 'experts.' We've been *told* stuff about enlightenment for decades, by those who claim to know, and who expect to get paid for telling it to us. And then we start having some experiences ourselves, and some of the experiences jibe with what we've been told and some of them do not, but it really doesn't matter, because they're OUR experiences, and NO ONE can do justice to describing them except (maybe) ourselves. I LIKE the fact that people here aren't afraid to talk about their personal experiences in the realm of consciousness. At this point in my life I just don't have any interest in hearing what one more 'expert' says about enlightenment. I'd rather hear the day-to-day experiences of someone like myself who doesn't really have a clue, but is trying to figure it all out. Pat answers are for small minds who want the world to be easily compartmentable and manageable. The world is neither. Let the 'experts' and their traditions go suck eggs. I'd rather hear from the guy on the street (or the gal on the street) who has had some interesting experiences and wants to throw them out there for others to bounce off of. I don't look to anything they say as Truth. I don't believe that any such concept as Truth exists in the universe, so I ain't exactly lookin' for it. I'm just trying to figure things out as best I can. And I'm WAY past the point of taking anybody else's word for it. This forum is great BECAUSE people don't restrict themselves to mindlessly repeating the stuff they've been told by the 'experts' in their lives. They're ready to be their own 'experts,' even if their 'expertise' is only a stumbling attempt to figure out what their personal experiences mean, or if they 'mean' anything. I kinda like that. It's refresh- ing in this world of 10-cent prophets and 'experts' wanting to tell you the Truth, for a price. Always for a price. The things said here are said for free. And some may say that you get what you pay for. Me, I've gotten far more from some of the things the people on this forum have said for free than from the things the 'experts' in my life sold me. Worthless as well, this post. EVERYTHING is worthless if you're still gullible enough to be searching for the Truth. T'ain't no such animal. Kick back and enjoy the ride and learn what you can from whomever you can, while laughing as much as possible sounds like a better approach to things to me... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. Haha.have you ever had someone tell you that you had reached enlightenment? It's a lot like someone informing you of a past life you don't remember; or getting the gas bill: Okeedoke, I'll take your word for it lol Seriously.how does anyone ever know??? Objectively? I belive MMY says that levitation is proof of samadhi. I suppose this means that if a person who is a known TMSP- practitioner repeatedly can take-off, hoover and settle down in a controlled manner, chances are this person is CC or above. Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? That would make sense if he had said *only* those who can levitate are in CC. But that's not what he said, is it? Also, it wouldn't make sense unless there were no *other* benefits to the TM-Sidhis. Plus which, as Lawson pointed out in a subsequent post, the ability to take-off, hoover [sic] and settle down in a controlled manner is evidence of UC, not CC. (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe MMY said that fully-perfected levitation (i.e. floating) (or other sidhi) done on-demand at any time outside of sutra practice would be a sign of fully-established Unity, not CC. He's also implied that NOT being able to float at all is a sign of NOT being in Unity. Given your first definition, the second would have to be true, wouldn't it? Has any solution been indicated for the perhaps greatest obstacle to successfull flying sutra practice - the surroundings? Seclusion far out in the wilderness as a way of life also for non- CCs simply in order to remove the obstacles put on i.a. flying sutra practice by the collective stress of society and other less good-experienced TMSP-practitioners? You guys should get out more. The first time I saw someone levitate (and by that I mean hover in mid-air for extended periods of time, lifting up and settling down with ease), it was in the Los Angeles Convention Center. I have since seen it done in private meditation halls, in the desert, in a Denny's coffee shop late at night, and in hundreds of other places. I can't do it because of... is a phrase that people who can't do stuff make up to explain why they can't do it. On the other hand, I disagree completely with levitation being any measure of one's state of consciousness. It's just a skill. You can either do it or you can't. It don't say bupkus about your state of consciousness. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Hi Akasha, First, many here and elsewhere have so many understandings of the term, use of such a label, in contrast to direct descriptors of an experience, has little communicative value IMO. I know lol. I hear that word used so much, and I swear .I dont know what it means lol. Second, I don't feel there is an endpoint (for our purposes) to refinement and expansion - and to me, E, connates some endpoint. I dont think there is a real endpoint either; for MANY reasons. Worse yet, E conveys a goal. I know lol. Kind of like when people discuss the path to enlightenment as if there is a point of demarcation where there is not path and then path. I mean,one is the path (at least to my way of thinking). I am not pegging you as having this or that type of experience or understanding of it. I am not offering advice. Just offering a joke. Laughing is its own reward. A result of holding a paradox in the mind (like where does space begin?) or the fusion of disparate ideas or concepts. A Gap opener. And that has its own reward and insights. haha, I didnt think you were calling me out or anything lol. If anything I wondered if I sounded like a brat or something and thought perhaps I should choose my words better. The problem I have is that I kept having these spontaneous awakeningsThey were incredible, but far beyond my ability to handle them. So far beyond that I was akin to an infant with a hand gun. It was ruining my life on a very physical level. I finally met a person who taught me how to control it to a degree, so things dont just sweep me away much anymore (that is a very good thing). Any degree of control is a new development for me and I am very much a beginner at certain practices. I ask questions because all I have is experience and I try to match up the words so that I can try and understand more (and learn more). Im actually learning Hindi right nowI think that will help me understand a little better. I meanright now, sometimes I dont even know if I am asking the right question J To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) I have. So, obviously, has Maharishi. He took one look at the verses and said to himself, I can make up some bullshit 'techniques' based on nothing more than thinking these phrases in English and people in the West are so gullible that they'll pay thousands of dollars for it. And he was right. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't know about less experienced TMSP practitioners, but there's the Vastu thing to consider, andof course, the claim that the Maharishi Effect exists and would have an effect on individuals during group practice of the TMSP. More horse crap. I can't levitate because the doors in my building face the wrong way. I can't BELIEVE people still fall for this stuff. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Irmeli: It puzzles me also, why people, when they stop identifying the 'I' with an image of one's personal self, say there is no 'I' anymore. Peter:Because no I or psychological sense of me is present. It can't be found. When people (in avidya) say me they are refering to a sense of separate individuality. An abstract, felt-sense of me-ness that is private and distinct from others' me-ness. Irmeli: The `I' is the subject, who feels, sees, interprets and evaluates situations, makes meaning, uses concepts like enlightenment in communication, relates to others, is in dialogue with others. Peter: Yes, this is all true in avidya. It is a phenomenological reality. I exist, I think, I feel, I interprate and evaluate, I make meaning. There is always, except in deep sleep, this underlying sense of I. Irmeli: The fact that something is being perceived is based on subject/object dualism. The perceiver is subject, the perceived is object. The `I', the subject, cannot see itself. If it can, there is an error in perception. Peter:All this is true in waking state/avidya. Irmeli: The subject can see only something that is object to itself. In enlightenment this error vanishes. And another error seems to appear, the idea that there is no `I'. Peter: No, it is not an error. You are extending waking state logic into realization and it falls apart there. In realization no individuality or sense of me can be located. There is thought, there is feeling, there is everything just like waking state, but there is no I or me present. It just can't be located! People say your name as if refering to a you, but there is no you present. This I is a delusion created by the identification of pure consciousness with bound mind. Consciousness projects into and identifies with a subjective object and assumes the limitations of that object. Patanjali's metaphor of the crystal gem assuming the color of whatever it is placed on works well. The crystal appears to be colored. I mean, damn boy, I can see that it's colored! That's the phenomenology of waking state. But consciousness is not bound by any object even when it appears to be bound (hence the you're already enlightened rap). The initial stage/condition of liberation is this cessation of projection/identification of counsciousness with objects of experience. Once counsciousness pulls back into itself there is no longer any identification occuring and hence no boundary or relative limitation to consciousness. Full awareness, but no I to lay claim to be doing anything. There is nobody home, but all the lights are on and everything is working just fine. That sense of I is just a very subtle thought. Self-inquiry will reveal this. Irmeli: If you are enlightened, I clearly am not, because I have difficulties to understand you. I have never felt a glimpse of the kind of reality you are speaking about and don't miss it either. Are you meaning that enlightenment means to you another state of consciousness like waking state, dreaming and sleeping. You just have one more state appearing on daily basis: enlightenment? In TM doctrine it had an other name I just now cannot recall. I have referred to enlightenment as a permanent stage of awareness, that includes waking state, dreaming and sleeping. Following our birth we humans evolve through different stages of awareness. When a higher stage unfolds the qualities of the old one are not lost, they are included in the new one. The new stage is just more encompassing. What was ultimate in the earlier stage is not anymore. A new more encompassing ultimacy has appeared. Some aspects and structures that earlier were embedded in the `I' and hence unseen to it, can now be looked at, and is available as a tool to work with. Yes and this all appears just in the relative, but more and more subtle and powerful aspects of the relative unfold to us this way not only in the area objective science, but also in the subjective structures of the mind as tools and capacities and as cognition. I claim that everything we can feel and be aware of appears in the realm of the relative. The concept of the absolute is an intellectual cognition of the mind. I have come to the conclusion that people tend to call absolute some experienced states that are very subtle relative to their predominant waking state. When you get more familiar with those more subtle levels, you see that it is full of life and evolving also. I also claim that everything that appears to the cognition is cognised only because there is a subject who is capable of feeling the unbounded experience. In states that have not become permanently lived stages it appears as if there is no `I', because it is so subtle compared to the `I' of the prevalent stage. For me as long as we in communication need the concepts I, you etc., it is a serious error of intellect to claim there is no `I' in one's subjectively lived reality. We are in no way separate or isolated entities from each other.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe MMY said that fully-perfected levitation (i.e. floating) (or other sidhi) done on-demand at any time outside of sutra practice would be a sign of fully-established Unity, not CC. He's also implied that NOT being able to float at all is a sign of NOT being in Unity. Given your first definition, the second would have to be true, wouldn't it? Has any solution been indicated for the perhaps greatest obstacle to successfull flying sutra practice - the surroundings? Seclusion far out in the wilderness as a way of life also for non- CCs simply in order to remove the obstacles put on i.a. flying sutra practice by the collective stress of society and other less good-experienced TMSP-practitioners? You guys should get out more. The first time I saw someone levitate (and by that I mean hover in mid-air for extended periods of time, lifting up and settling down with ease), it was in the Los Angeles Convention Center. I have since seen it done in private meditation halls, in the desert, in a Denny's coffee shop late at night, and in hundreds of other places. I can't do it because of... is a phrase that people who can't do stuff make up to explain why they can't do it. On the other hand, I disagree completely with levitation being any measure of one's state of consciousness. It's just a skill. You can either do it or you can't. It don't say bupkus about your state of consciousness. The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. Haha.have you ever had someone tell you that you had reached enlightenment? It's a lot like someone informing you of a past life you don't remember; or getting the gas bill: Okeedoke, I'll take your word for it lol Seriously.how does anyone ever know??? Objectively? I belive MMY says that levitation is proof of samadhi. I suppose this means that if a person who is a known TMSP- practitioner repeatedly can take-off, hoover and settle down in a controlled manner, chances are this person is CC or above. Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't know about less experienced TMSP practitioners, but there's the Vastu thing to consider, andof course, the claim that the Maharishi Effect exists and would have an effect on individuals during group practice of the TMSP. More horse crap. I can't levitate because the doors in my building face the wrong way. I can't BELIEVE people still fall for this stuff. Haven't heard THAT particular claim. Where did you get it? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Oct 13, 2005, at 11:20 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "peterklutz" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Paula Youmans" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. Haha.have you ever had someone tell you that you had reached enlightenment? It's a lot like someone informing you of a past life you don't remember; or getting the gas bill:"Okeedoke, I'll take your word for it" lolSeriously.how does anyone ever know??? Objectively? I belive MMY says that levitation is proof of samadhi. I suppose this means that if a person who is a known TMSP- practitioner repeatedly can take-off, hoover and settle down in a controlled manner, chances are this person is CC or above. I believe MMY said that fully-perfected levitation (i.e. floating) (or other sidhi) done on-demand at any time outside of sutra practice would be a sign of fully-established Unity, not CC. He's also implied that NOT being able to float at all is a sign of NOT being in Unity. Given your first definition, the second would have to be true, wouldn't it? Fully in Unity is not, as far as I can gather, the same as being in Unity (somewhat/someofthetime/sorta). There would be gradiations of maturity or whatever. Non-advaita paths generally use Unity as the Goal (or Fruit) and true Advaita paths utilize Unity as the Path. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? I took the Sidhis course, flew the first day, was bored with the whole thing by the second day. Haven't practiced them in decades. I just don't believe that the techniques that are taught by Maharishi have *anything* to do with what Patanjali was talking about. They're a made-up invention in my opinion. I also don't believe that the siddhis have *anything* whatsoever to do with enlightenment or the cultivation thereof. Apples and oranges. Clear enough? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Oct 14, 2005, at 3:07 AM, TurquoiseB wrote:On the other hand, I disagree completely with levitation being any measure of one's state of consciousness. It's just a skill. You can either do it or you can't. It don't say bupkus about your state of consciousness. If it was then you'd have to accept that Darth Vader was in Unity...and as everyone knows, he wasn't (well not sure about the last episode, it was kinda vague). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? I took the Sidhis course, flew the first day, was bored with the whole thing by the second day. Haven't practiced them in decades. I just don't believe that the techniques that are taught by Maharishi have *anything* to do with what Patanjali was talking about. They're a made-up invention in my opinion. I also don't believe that the siddhis have *anything* whatsoever to do with enlightenment or the cultivation thereof. Apples and oranges. Clear enough? No,no, not at all. If I was your guru I'd tell you that knowledge can't be only intellectual, you must have the direct experience. So practice the siddhis regularly for 28 years, then you will know directly. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. But this has never happened, right? So why not talk about the man in the moon? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
So, when we stop living the surrealistic reality of our assumed limitations, and become free, we are said to then be 'enlightened'. But it is merely relative to what our past experience has been. Hi Jim thanks for your reply. I was thinking about that line you wrote above and you must be right. It also made me realize that it is a concept that I dont need to put in a box to wrap my hands around. I dont really like using words that I dont have a clear idea of what it means, but I think I am getting a better understanding. Kind of like when people say they are brokeI used to think that it meant that they have no money, but people dont use it that way at all. Ive heard people that were in my eyes very wealthy, say that they were broke when what they meant is they have less money than they did last week. Perhaps we prize it so greatly because of the subjective experience both of inner and outer freedom, and the knowledge, ability, responsibility and love that comes with it. Sometimes I wonder if a part of me is being lazy and looking for some endpoint so I can go back to watching family guy and eating cheetos (Im teasing kind of). And yet, once this state of inner and outer freedom is reached, life goes on, relative responsibilities and achievements continue Like the old saying; before enlightenment one chops wood and carries water. After enlightenment, one chops wood and carries water. Ugh. Yet, on the horizon of our timeless lives ...another enlightenment beckons... YEAH!! :-D To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Objectively? I belive MMY says that levitation is proof of samadhi. I suppose this means that if a person who is a known TMSP-practitioner repeatedly can take-off, hoover and settle down in a controlled manner, chances are this person is CC or above. Im thinking if what has already happened freaked me out as bad as it did, that my feet leaving the ground would send me into a panicky ball of blubbering goo. If that ever happens, someone better be with me so they can slap me across the face. I would like to see someone else do it though that would be fun To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. Hmmm. I would be one of those skeptics. Exactly where, after 30 years or so, are these photographs that show the kind of levitation you're talking about? Could it possibly be that, after 30 years or so, you're still assuming that what Maharishi said is true just because he said it? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't know about less experienced TMSP practitioners, but there's the Vastu thing to consider, andof course, the claim that the Maharishi Effect exists and would have an effect on individuals during group practice of the TMSP. More horse crap. I can't levitate because the doors in my building face the wrong way. I can't BELIEVE people still fall for this stuff. So the flying pigs live in SV stalls? And when the monkeys fly out your ass, are you facing east? Or do they reorient themselves instantly upon exit? This is important stuff to document. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? I took the Sidhis course, flew the first day, was bored with the whole thing by the second day. Haven't practiced them in decades. I just don't believe that the techniques that are taught by Maharishi have *anything* to do with what Patanjali was talking about. They're a made-up invention in my opinion. I also don't believe that the siddhis have *anything* whatsoever to do with enlightenment or the cultivation thereof. Apples and oranges. Clear enough? No,no, not at all. If I was your guru I'd tell you that knowledge can't be only intellectual, you must have the direct experience. So practice the siddhis regularly for 28 years, then you will know directly. And if Maharishi were my guru, and I were still on the program, I'd probably believe it. Many obviously still do. The question seems to be, Which will come first for these TBs -- doubt or death? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. But this has never happened, right? So why not talk about the man in the moon? Given the lower gravity, the man in the moon will probably levitate before TM-sidhas do. Now that I think of it, though, even butt- bouncing would be a lot of fun on the moon. You'd probably get a few ten- or twenty-meter hops in each session. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) I have. So, obviously, has Maharishi. He took one look at the verses and said to himself, I can make up some bullshit 'techniques' based on nothing more than thinking these phrases in English and people in the West are so gullible that they'll pay thousands of dollars for it. And he was right. Oh, right, I forgot, we've all just been imagining the experiences and benefits from the practices to justify having paid thousands of dollars for them. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. But this has never happened, right? So why not talk about the man in the moon? Given the lower gravity, the man in the moon will probably levitate before TM-sidhas do. Now that I think of it, though, even butt- bouncing would be a lot of fun on the moon. You'd probably get a few ten- or twenty-meter hops in each session. That would be fun, wouldn't it? I wonder if any of the astronauts that walked on the moon ever talked about how much fun it was to bound around on the moon's surface. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) I have. So, obviously, has Maharishi. He took one look at the verses and said to himself, I can make up some bullshit 'techniques' based on nothing more than thinking these phrases in English and people in the West are so gullible that they'll pay thousands of dollars for it. And he was right. Oh, right, I forgot, we've all just been imagining the experiences and benefits from the practices to justify having paid thousands of dollars for them. Actually, in my opinion that is a very strong possibility. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB wrote: Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? I took the Sidhis course, flew the first day, was bored with the whole thing by the second day. Haven't practiced them in decades. I just don't believe that the techniques that are taught by Maharishi have *anything* to do with what Patanjali was talking about. They're a made-up invention in my opinion. I also don't believe that the siddhis have *anything* whatsoever to do with enlightenment or the cultivation thereof. Apples and oranges. Clear enough? No,no, not at all. If I was your guru I'd tell you that knowledge can't be only intellectual, you must have the direct experience. So practice the siddhis regularly for 28 years, then you will know directly. And if Maharishi were my guru, and I were still on the program, I'd probably believe it. Many obviously still do. The question seems to be, Which will come first for these TBs -- doubt or death? IMO, doubt comes first, followed inevitably by death. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) I have. So, obviously, has Maharishi. He took one look at the verses and said to himself, I can make up some bullshit 'techniques' based on nothing more than thinking these phrases in English and people in the West are so gullible that they'll pay thousands of dollars for it. And he was right. Oh, right, I forgot, we've all just been imagining the experiences and benefits from the practices to justify having paid thousands of dollars for them. Although we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water, Barry touches on a valid point, and that is to see the Sidhis techniques in the light of what we are trying to accomplish, vs. an automatic prescription for enlightenment. I found the Sidhis to be very very powerful, and they cleaned out some channels of my perception noticeably. I also, like Barry said, 'flew' with the flying technique on the first day. However, after awhile I assessed what it was I was trying to accomplish for myself in this life, and decided that my practice of the Sidhis were no longer furthering my progress towards those goals. So I stopped them, and continued on my merry way. This is a very important point, to always be vigilant about where we are going and the means we use to get there. Same as in daily life- good program management. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) I have. So, obviously, has Maharishi. He took one look at the verses and said to himself, I can make up some bullshit 'techniques' based on nothing more than thinking these phrases in English and people in the West are so gullible that they'll pay thousands of dollars for it. And he was right. Oh, right, I forgot, we've all just been imagining the experiences and benefits from the practices to justify having paid thousands of dollars for them. Actually, in my opinion that is a very strong possibility. That's *very* funny. Too bad you missed out. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) I have. So, obviously, has Maharishi. He took one look at the verses and said to himself, I can make up some bullshit 'techniques' based on nothing more than thinking these phrases in English and people in the West are so gullible that they'll pay thousands of dollars for it. And he was right. Oh, right, I forgot, we've all just been imagining the experiences and benefits from the practices to justify having paid thousands of dollars for them. Although we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water, Barry touches on a valid point, and that is to see the Sidhis techniques in the light of what we are trying to accomplish, vs. an automatic prescription for enlightenment. Or, we can just enjoy what they provide without fixating on goals. I found the Sidhis to be very very powerful, and they cleaned out some channels of my perception noticeably. I also, like Barry said, 'flew' with the flying technique on the first day. However, after awhile I assessed what it was I was trying to accomplish for myself in this life, and decided that my practice of the Sidhis were no longer furthering my progress towards those goals. Or, whether the day-to-day benefits continue to be worth the time spent, again regardless of specific goals. So I stopped them, and continued on my merry way. This is a very important point, to always be vigilant about where we are going and the means we use to get there. Same as in daily life- good program management. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and the techniques aren't made-up 'Patanjali' techniques. You might want to have a look at the Yoga Sutras sometime.) I have. So, obviously, has Maharishi. He took one look at the verses and said to himself, I can make up some bullshit 'techniques' based on nothing more than thinking these phrases in English and people in the West are so gullible that they'll pay thousands of dollars for it. And he was right. Oh, right, I forgot, we've all just been imagining the experiences and benefits from the practices to justify having paid thousands of dollars for them. Although we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water, Barry touches on a valid point, and that is to see the Sidhis techniques in the light of what we are trying to accomplish, vs. an automatic prescription for enlightenment. Or, we can just enjoy what they provide without fixating on goals. I found the Sidhis to be very very powerful, and they cleaned out some channels of my perception noticeably. I also, like Barry said, 'flew' with the flying technique on the first day. However, after awhile I assessed what it was I was trying to accomplish for myself in this life, and decided that my practice of the Sidhis were no longer furthering my progress towards those goals. Or, whether the day-to-day benefits continue to be worth the time spent, again regardless of specific goals. Yes, exactly-- I could no longer correlate the hours spent on these techniques with the benefits I received. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? I took the Sidhis course, flew the first day, was bored with the whole thing by the second day. Haven't practiced them in decades. I just don't believe that the techniques that are taught by Maharishi have *anything* to do with what Patanjali was talking about. They're a made-up invention in my opinion. I also don't believe that the siddhis have *anything* whatsoever to do with enlightenment or the cultivation thereof. Apples and oranges. Clear enough? No,no, not at all. If I was your guru I'd tell you that knowledge can't be only intellectual, you must have the direct experience. So practice the siddhis regularly for 28 years, then you will know directly. And if Maharishi were my guru, and I were still on the program, I'd probably believe it. Many obviously still do. The question seems to be, Which will come first for these TBs -- doubt or death? IMO, doubt comes first, followed inevitably by death. That sounds off the program to me. If you're a real TB, it should be the other way around. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? I took the Sidhis course, flew the first day, was bored with the whole thing by the second day. Haven't practiced them in decades. I just don't believe that the techniques that are taught by Maharishi have *anything* to do with what Patanjali was talking about. They're a made-up invention in my opinion. I also don't believe that the siddhis have *anything* whatsoever to do with enlightenment or the cultivation thereof. Apples and oranges. Clear enough? No,no, not at all. If I was your guru I'd tell you that knowledge can't be only intellectual, you must have the direct experience. So practice the siddhis regularly for 28 years, then you will know directly. And if Maharishi were my guru, and I were still on the program, I'd probably believe it. Many obviously still do. The question seems to be, Which will come first for these TBs -- doubt or death? IMO, doubt comes first, followed inevitably by death. That sounds off the program to me. If you're a real TB, it should be the other way around. I am not sure that a even a fanatic, intuiting his/her own demise would be free of doubt just previous to their extinction. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suspect it all depends upon the level of conditioning that the fanatic was exposed to. Consider fanatical sects within the Catholic Church or Muslim faith or whatever, in which doubt is not only not tolerated, it is cause for expulsion. Consider a monk who has never had what he considers a spiritual experience his entire life, but at the same time, has been taught every day of that life that FAITH, even in the absence of exper- ience, is what counts. I would say that such persons would tend to dive into the Bardo with faith intact. And who knows...that may be a good thing, if what you want out of this life is some benefit in the next one. What you say is good advice to keep our eyes open at all times and see what we are seeing. The TB life is a sad one, in my opinion, and a poor trade off for the richness of this world. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Haven't you ever considered the possibility that Maharishi just said that to get people to pay a lot of money for his made-up Patanjali tech- niques, and to keep practicing them? Okay, I am getting a bit confused here. Are you a TMSP-practitioner yourself? I took the Sidhis course, flew the first day, was bored with the whole thing by the second day. Haven't practiced them in decades. I just don't believe that the techniques that are taught by Maharishi have *anything* to do with what Patanjali was talking about. They're a made-up invention in my opinion. I also don't believe that the siddhis have *anything* whatsoever to do with enlightenment or the cultivation thereof. Apples and oranges. Clear enough? No,no, not at all. If I was your guru I'd tell you that knowledge can't be only intellectual, you must have the direct experience. So practice the siddhis regularly for 28 years, then you will know directly. And if Maharishi were my guru, and I were still on the program, I'd probably believe it. Many obviously still do. The question seems to be, Which will come first for these TBs -- doubt or death? IMO, doubt comes first, followed inevitably by death. That sounds off the program to me. If you're a real TB, it should be the other way around. I am not sure that a even a fanatic, intuiting his/her own demise would be free of doubt just previous to their extinction. I suspect it all depends upon the level of conditioning that the fanatic was exposed to. Consider fanatical sects within the Catholic Church or Muslim faith or whatever, in which doubt is not only not tolerated, it is cause for expulsion. Consider a monk who has never had what he considers a spiritual experience his entire life, but at the same time, has been taught every day of that life that FAITH, even in the absence of exper- ience, is what counts. I would say that such persons would tend to dive into the Bardo with faith intact. And who knows...that may be a good thing, if what you want out of this life is some benefit in the next one. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. Hmmm. I would be one of those skeptics. Exactly where, after 30 years or so, are these photographs that show the kind of levitation you're talking about? Could it possibly be that, after 30 years or so, you're still assuming that what Maharishi said is true just because he said it? :-) The MMY flying sutra works - I think you said so yourself in a posting. The one and only time my bpdy truly levitated was when being initiated on the sidhi-course. The experience was that of the body being forcefully pulled down into that field which presupposes movement throught the air. Next it was like sitting on 2000cc bike for the first time, with full throttle. Scary stuff. I (or 'i' rather) was not in control - the 2000cc bike was. The distances covered in each landing was in the realm of 30 feet, the altitude topped 3+ feet (higher was impossible due to the height of the room. The physical restructuring this resulted in the ensuing 4-5 days included having to re-experience bodily pain from accidents that evidently was stored in the physiology, as well as falling asleep whenever I sat down. After this, only the normal ass-bumping has occured. I see two reasons for the latter, the first is remaning physical impurities. Second, perhaps the hardest one, the surroundings - doing the flying sutra is a declaration of war, of sorts to the prevalent configuration of the atmosphere. The world is simply not very welcoming to this high level of energy. I think this may be different in different locations. I think serious seekers in the TMO are far closer to E than they might realize, the reason being the fact that they live in a world (until this summer) controlled by Kali. I am also convinced that many of them also have reached the required physiological degree of purity to sustain that state which allows them to levitate, but that the ambient atmosphere is fore-checking this and holding them back. Serious feedback welcome. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Oct 14, 2005, at 1:09 PM, peterklutz wrote:I think serious seekers in the TMO are far closer to E than they might realize, the reason being the fact that they live in a world (until this summer) controlled by Kali. Didn't M. say the opposite, that people would be surprised (at how advanced they really were, i.e. that they couldn't levitate)? I am also convinced that many of them also have reached the required physiological degree of purity to sustain that state which allows them to levitate, but that the ambient atmosphere is fore-checking this and holding them back. I always thought that M.'s statement that 'the reason people couldn't hover was because of low coherence' was BS; then I heard the Dalai Lama's response to the same question and he stated 'people used to be able to levitate much easier and much higher (i.e when he was a child and before), but now the world consciousness is too coarse.' Of course he was commenting on the novices which the questioner observed. There are other more advanced mahamudra practitioners who can but have not (as of yet) been up for public scrutiny by outsiders. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suspect it all depends upon the level of conditioning that the fanatic was exposed to. Consider fanatical sects within the Catholic Church or Muslim faith or whatever, in which doubt is not only not tolerated, it is cause for expulsion. Consider a monk who has never had what he considers a spiritual experience his entire life, but at the same time, has been taught every day of that life that FAITH, even in the absence of exper- ience, is what counts. I would say that such persons would tend to dive into the Bardo with faith intact. And who knows...that may be a good thing, if what you want out of this life is some benefit in the next one. What you say is good advice to keep our eyes open at all times and see what we are seeing. The TB life is a sad one, in my opinion, and a poor trade off for the richness of this world. Ah, but there are benefits as well. I have a number of friends who really *get off* on faith. They make *no* rational or pondered or thought- out decisions in their lives; everything is done on sheer faith that things will work out if they just follow their bliss or follow their master. And, interestingly, more often than not, things *do* work out for them. Me, I chalk the difference up to predilection. If your predilection is to be more bhakti-oriented, and trust in a guru, then nothing else is going to offer you the same satisfaction in life. If your predilection is to trust in nature or the Tao or whatever, then nothing else is going to do it for you. However, if your predilection does *not* lie in that direction, and you attempt to adopt that lifestyle because people told you it was the Way to go, then very little works out for you. I think the key to a fairly happy incarnation is to figure out as soon as possible in that lifetime what your predilection is and follow it. Then again, there are probably some who set up a series of karmas and samskaras for themselves that were designed to *prevent* having a happy incarnation, and for them, following the wrong dharma for their body's predi- lection might be just the ticket. Surely there are people in this world, and people who follow the path of self realization, whose intent seems to be to make things as difficult for themselves as possible. They usually succeed, and when this tendency is pointed out, they usually ignore any advice that might make things a little easier for them and continue merrily on their Way to misery and difficulties. Surely this says something about their predilection in life. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Some prefer rowing through water, others prefer rowing through mud. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I am also convinced that many of them also have reached the required physiological degree of purity to sustain that state which allows them to levitate, but that the ambient atmosphere is fore-checking this and holding them back. My guess is that there is some level on which most yogic flyers don't *really* believe true levitation (i.e., hovering and beyond, not just Really Big Hops) is possible. They may believe it on an intellectual basis, but not in their gut. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I am also convinced that many of them also have reached the required physiological degree of purity to sustain that state which allows them to levitate, but that the ambient atmosphere is fore-checking this and holding them back. My guess is that there is some level on which most yogic flyers don't *really* believe true levitation (i.e., hovering and beyond, not just Really Big Hops) is possible. They may believe it on an intellectual basis, but not in their gut. (On the other hand, this may be a function of the ambient atmosphere.) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Are you addicted to your boat floating? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
The kind of levitation/floating that MMY claims to be referring to is the kind that you can photograph and perform before a skeptical audience. Hmmm. I would be one of those skeptics. Exactly where, after 30 years or so, are these photographs that show the kind of levitation you're talking about? Could it possibly be that, after 30 years or so, you're still assuming that what Maharishi said is true just because he said it? :-) The MMY flying sutra works - I think you said so yourself in a posting. It works at *something*. I am not sure what. I am also not sure any more whether the technique actually *does* anything or whether it merely tricks practitioners into forgetting that they *can't* do something, and as a result, they can. To be honest, I really haven't put much thought into it. The TM siddhis never really did that much for me, and I'm not in the habit of sitting around pondering things that didn't do that much for me. I haven't really thought much about them since I stopped doing them, which is now over 25 years ago. I don't miss them; I don't regret having learned them; I don't feel the desire to ever try them again. They're just something that happened along the Way. The one and only time my bpdy truly levitated was when being initiated on the sidhi-course. The experience was that of the body being forcefully pulled down into that field which presupposes movement throught the air. Next it was like sitting on 2000cc bike for the first time, with full throttle. Scary stuff. I (or 'i' rather) was not in control - the 2000cc bike was. The distances covered in each landing was in the realm of 30 feet, the altitude topped 3+ feet (higher was impossible due to the height of the room. Cool. Neat experience. Me, I'm not sure that I would still be practicing them even if I had experienced something similar. I've had more than my share of whiz-bang experiences in my life, and I've developed a kind of Hey, that was *neat*...wonder what's next? attitude about them. I don't ponder them much once they're over, except to write about them if they're *really* neat, as sort of a spiritual exercise. But even when I do that, once the writing is over, I rarely think of the experience again. It's just how I am, my predilection. I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing or an indifferent thing; it's just my predilection. What made me lose interest in the siddhis was some- thing that someone here (I forget who) talked about: the ROI factor. He/she didn't use that term, but that was the gist of it -- what do you get out of this investment of time, and is that 'what' impor- tant enough to you to continue the investment of time? I wound up valuing the time more than I did the benefits. The physical restructuring this resulted in the ensuing 4-5 days included having to re-experience bodily pain from accidents that evidently was stored in the physiology, as well as falling asleep whenever I sat down. Interesting. After this, only the normal ass-bumping has occured. I see two reasons for the latter, the first is remaning physical impurities. Or maybe there is no need for the experience to repeat itself. It was what it was. Perhaps it will never be repeated. Some other experience will come along. Second, perhaps the hardest one, the surroundings - doing the flying sutra is a declaration of war, of sorts to the prevalent configuration of the atmosphere. The world is simply not very welcoming to this high level of energy. I think this may be different in different locations. While I understand what you are saying -- the world's energy has shifted a *lot* in the last twenty years -- I am not convinced that the environment somehow 'prevents' experience unless we believe it does. Mystics in every age, some of those ages very dark indeed, have managed to have mystical experiences, including performance of the sidhis. Sometimes the darker the times, the better the experiences. Go figure. I think serious seekers in the TMO are far closer to E than they might realize, the reason being the fact that they live in a world (until this summer) controlled by Kali. And what happened after this summer? Did Kali get a day job or something, and have to stop amusing herself by fucking with the Earth? :-) I am also convinced that many of them also have reached the required physiological degree of purity to sustain that state which allows them to levitate, but that the ambient atmosphere is fore-checking this and holding them back. Serious feedback welcome. While I appreciate your point of view on this, and agree with you completely that this planet is one gnarly place to practice the mystical arts right now, I'm not convinced that the world's purity or lack thereof can cause the non-appearance of sidhis. I am also not convinced that a certain level of purity is required to be able to manifest the sidhis. I think
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I am also convinced that many of them also have reached the required physiological degree of purity to sustain that state which allows them to levitate, but that the ambient atmosphere is fore-checking this and holding them back. My guess is that there is some level on which most yogic flyers don't *really* believe true levitation (i.e., hovering and beyond, not just Really Big Hops) is possible. They may believe it on an intellectual basis, but not in their gut. Exactly. I think that's the factor that makes all the difference. And in my opinion it can't be overcome intellectually. The belief you speak of is *not* at an intellectual level. As you say, it's a gut experience. Quite literally, your *body* has to believe that the sidhi is possible. Interestingly enough, one of the benefits of witnessing the sidhis is being able to sit in their energy field. If you are sitting close enough to witness the sidhi, you are sitting within the aura of the state of attention that makes the sidhi possible. It is a transformative experience. The energy field is so powerful that your *body* can't resist it. You get to wear that state of attention for a little while, to experience first-hand what it feels like to be in the mindstate from which that sidhi is possible. It's just the damnedest thing. Words fail me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Are you addicted to your boat floating? I think you may be onto something here. The thought of the opposite gives me a sinking feeling. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I am also convinced that many of them also have reached the required physiological degree of purity to sustain that state which allows them to levitate, but that the ambient atmosphere is fore- checking this and holding them back. My guess is that there is some level on which most yogic flyers don't *really* believe true levitation (i.e., hovering and beyond, not just Really Big Hops) is possible. They may believe it on an intellectual basis, but not in their gut. Exactly. I think that's the factor that makes all the difference. And in my opinion it can't be overcome intellectually. The belief you speak of is *not* at an intellectual level. As you say, it's a gut experience. Quite literally, your *body* has to believe that the sidhi is possible. I don't know whether it's the body or something else. But awhile back I wrote about an experience I sometimes have at the apex of a hop: for a split second, it becomes self-evident that levitation is possible. It's not a belief or even a conviction, it's *knowledge*, as sure as the knowledge that if I decide to lift my hand to scratch my nose, that's what's going to happen. But it doesn't last. If it did, I wouldn't come down. Interestingly enough, one of the benefits of witnessing the sidhis is being able to sit in their energy field. If you are sitting close enough to witness the sidhi, you are sitting within the aura of the state of attention that makes the sidhi possible. It is a transformative experience. The energy field is so powerful that your *body* can't resist it. You get to wear that state of attention for a little while, to experience first-hand what it feels like to be in the mindstate from which that sidhi is possible. It's just the damnedest thing. Words fail me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
My guess is that there is some level on which most yogic flyers don't *really* believe true levitation (i.e., hovering and beyond, not just Really Big Hops) is possible. They may believe it on an intellectual basis, but not in their gut. Exactly. I think that's the factor that makes all the difference. And in my opinion it can't be overcome intellectually. The belief you speak of is *not* at an intellectual level. As you say, it's a gut experience. Quite literally, your *body* has to believe that the sidhi is possible. I don't know whether it's the body or something else. But awhile back I wrote about an experience I sometimes have at the apex of a hop: for a split second, it becomes self-evident that levitation is possible. It's not a belief or even a conviction, it's *knowledge*, as sure as the knowledge that if I decide to lift my hand to scratch my nose, that's what's going to happen. That's it. Your way of expressing it is better than mine. 'Conviction' or 'belief' connotes something less than this experience. It's more what I would associate with 'seeing,' as in having a clear intuition or a vision of the future. You don't 'believe' it's true; it's just true. There is no question about it. But it doesn't last. If it did, I wouldn't come down. Not even for lunch? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I am also not sure any more whether the technique actually *does* anything or whether it merely tricks practitioners into forgetting that they *can't* do something, and as a result, they can. That sounds like the technique does something to me. snip I think serious seekers in the TMO are far closer to E than they might realize, the reason being the fact that they live in a world (until this summer) controlled by Kali. And what happened after this summer? Did Kali get a day job or something, and have to stop amusing herself by fucking with the Earth? :-) According to Dana Milbank of the Washington Post, it was the Curse of Cindy Sheehan. snip That said, neither manifesting the sidhis nor having witnessed them being performed strikes me as more important or valuable than any other experience in my life. They happened. I'm glad they did. They were neat. But lots of other things were neat. Lots of things still are. In MMY's teaching, of course, one isn't practicing the techniques so that one will be able to do siddhis, but rather because the practice facilitates Unity consciousness. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As a kid, maybe starting at 8 or 10, I had a repeated inquiry -- I was a curious sort of kid (as in inquisitive and odd). I kept looking at the sky and visualizing another kid my age -- in Japan actually -- though I had not much connection there. I think it was my idea of as different and foreign as could be (this was around 1960). And I kept asking myself, what makes me different from him. It was clear that there were surface differences -- that was the point in choosing someone in a vastly different culture. But I was after the question of identity: what is it that makes me me different from what makes him him. I remember something similar to this, although much less elaborate. I was a few years younger, I think. It suddenly occurred to me that other people must have a me inside them just as I did. It felt very counterintuitive to think my consciousness was not the only consciousness, but it had to be the case because other people clearly behaved as though they had their own. With considerable reluctance, I accepted that this was just the way it was, and it became part of my outlook. I also remember, roughly around the same time, wondering what it would be like if I could stop thinking. I tried and tried but couldn't do it. Essentially, I realized that trying not to think was itself a thought, although I didn't phrase it that way to myself. And I gave up, figuring that was just the way it was. My memories of these two occasions remained very clear, though, and they came to mind immediately when I began to learn something about TM. It was a source of some satisfaction to know my intuitions as a child had been on the money, if a bit frustrating that I hadn't been willing to trust them. I suspect most kids have these moments. If we could only get to them and confirm their insights before they give up and accept the Standard Model, maybe they'd be able to grow up enlightened. When I was around 9 or 10 my best friend and I used to play this game. We would sit quietly and begin to negate our experience piece by piece. We'd alternate saying things like, The tree in the front yard doesn't exist. Your parents car doesn't exist. School doesn't exist., etc. We'd slowly negate everything we could think of. Finally we'd come to the end after negating the entire creation and we'd negate ourselves simultaneously. I remember there would be this explosion of energy and we'd both freakout and run outside screaming in delight. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was around 9 or 10 my best friend and I used to play this game. We would sit quietly and begin to negate our experience piece by piece. We'd alternate saying things like, The tree in the front yard doesn't exist. Your parents car doesn't exist. School doesn't exist., etc. We'd slowly negate everything we could think of. Finally we'd come to the end after negating the entire creation and we'd negate ourselves simultaneously. I remember there would be this explosion of energy and we'd both freakout and run outside screaming in delight. So you're the ones who made my school disappear. I always wondered who did that, and wanted to thank them. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was around 9 or 10 my best friend and I used to play this game. We would sit quietly and begin to negate our experience piece by piece. We'd alternate saying things like, The tree in the front yard doesn't exist. Your parents car doesn't exist. School doesn't exist., etc. We'd slowly negate everything we could think of. Finally we'd come to the end after negating the entire creation and we'd negate ourselves simultaneously. I remember there would be this explosion of energy and we'd both freakout and run outside screaming in delight. So you're the ones who made my school disappear. I always wondered who did that, and wanted to thank them. No problem, man. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Oct 12, 2005, at 9:43 PM, akasha_108 wrote:Does the switching experience I described correspond to any types of "standard" transmissions that you are aware of?Anything's possible but nothing specific I could add. Does the clothng I described, white cloak, hood, dark bue symbol laden embrodery ring a bell for any monastic or adept orders of children for which you are familiar? Either now/ 1960's or any time in the past?Not particularly although there is the white sangha (as opposed to the red one) which are lamas/gurus which marry (rather then being celibate), although they don't necessarily wear blue are part of their get up. I'm not real familiar with Chinese and Japanese spirituality other than Taoism. Are there / were there any 10 year old adepts doing such transmissions?Sure. Often reincarnated lamas, etc. begin teaching at an early age--some when they are half that age. But it just seems to fit together in a way. Maybe just an unknown, that is, unconscious (to me) ego mechanism flaming up to make me feel "spiritual".Perhaps, perhaps also a past life memory. In some cases, past life memories are only remembered towards the beginning of our lives, when we are children. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:39 PM, Peter wrote: This is one of the clearest responses articulating the condition of I after realization. It's brilliant. Wondering what happens to the I in enlightenment is like asking what happens to the knot after it's untied; what happens to the darkness when the light is turned on. What happens is that they no longer exist. They are not accounted for because they cease to beassimilated, silenced, replaced by no-thing! Answer: There is great difficulity in describing a condition that is not within the experiental reality of the ego, and especially in answering a question the asking of which stems from the dualistic paradigm of reality of the questioner. An enlightened being *is* their condition; thus, there is no purpose to make a 'claim'. That is an ego view. The personal self does not become enlightened or transformed but instead is assimilated, silenced, and replaced by a different condition altogether. Implied in the common saying that we are discussing is the belief that to disclaim being enlightened is a form of modesty. This is a projection of the spiritual ego of the originator of such a statement for in the condition of enlightenment, no egotism remains. The state is merely a simple fact; it is not an achievment. It has no merits or anything which is laudatory that would require the posture of pseudo-humility. In the naive spiritual community, there is much adulation, charismatic glamour, and the importance attributed to 'enlightened masters', and the like.These are projections. To the enlightened being, the state is merely the natural condition of how it is. From my POV it represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the eastern experience of ahamkara (translated often as ego) and the Freudian, psychological or New Age idea of ego. The two are not the same, although many assume they are. When you lose ahamkara, you lose the ability to identify with your body. In laymen's terms, you die. In general, organs and cells don't like it. It puzzles me also, why people, when they stop identifying the 'I' with an image of one's personal self, say there is no 'I' anymore. The `I' is the subject, who feels, sees, interprets and evaluates situations, makes meaning, uses concepts like enlightenment in communication, relates to others, is in dialogue with others. The fact that something is being perceived is based on subject/object dualism. The perceiver is subject, the perceived is object. The `I', the subject, cannot see itself. If it can, there is an error in interpreting. The subject can see only something that is object to itself. In enlightenment this error vanishes. And another error seems to appear, the idea that there is no `I'. Irmeli Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:44 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote:It puzzles me also, why people, when they stop identifying the 'I' with an image of one's personal self, say there is no 'I' anymore. The `I' is the subject, who feels, sees, interprets and evaluates situations, makes meaning, uses concepts like enlightenment in communication, relates to others, is in dialogue with others. The fact that something is being perceived is based on subject/object dualism. The perceiver is subject, the perceived is object. The `I', the subject, cannot see itself. If it can, there is an error in interpreting. The subject can see only something that is object to itself. In enlightenment this error vanishes. And another error seems to appear, the idea that there is no `I'. The whole topic is rather interesting. This would certainly not be considered enlightenment IMO--merely a transitory realization that "I" is empty and not "solid". Really from a Buddhist perspective, if one is enlightened one does not claim it for a number of reasons--it causes sentient beings to argue, it creates jealousy, etc. Therefore a Buddha cannot make a declaration which will cause suffering. From that POV one who claims to be "enlightened" typically is not. I have to wonder if that is one of the reasons the Surangama sutra is mentioned in movement literature (and lectures)--so that people might pick it up and read it. It details all the ways that people are fooled into believing they are enlightened--and I'm sure this is one of them. IIRC it also prophecizes that at the end of the Kali yuga, large numbers of people who are not enlightened will surface, claiming to be. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:44 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: It puzzles me also, why people, when they stop identifying the 'I' with an image of one's personal self, say there is no 'I' anymore. The `I' is the subject, who feels, sees, interprets and evaluates situations, makes meaning, uses concepts like enlightenment in communication, relates to others, is in dialogue with others. The fact that something is being perceived is based on subject/object dualism. The perceiver is subject, the perceived is object. The `I', the subject, cannot see itself. If it can, there is an error in interpreting. The subject can see only something that is object to itself. In enlightenment this error vanishes. And another error seems to appear, the idea that there is no `I'. The whole topic is rather interesting. This would certainly not be considered enlightenment IMO--merely a transitory realization that I is empty and not solid. Really from a Buddhist perspective, if one is enlightened one does not claim it for a number of reasons-- it causes sentient beings to argue, it creates jealousy, etc. Therefore a Buddha cannot make a declaration which will cause suffering. From that POV one who claims to be enlightened typically is not. I have to wonder if that is one of the reasons the Surangama sutra is mentioned in movement literature (and lectures)--so that people might pick it up and read it. It details all the ways that people are fooled into believing they are enlightened--and I'm sure this is one of them. IIRC it also prophecizes that at the end of the Kali yuga, large numbers of people who are not enlightened will surface, claiming to be. I've often held a contrary perspective, that *most* people are enlightened, or at least act and think as such very often. This idea that just a few attain this state seems untrue. Maybe people don't know the verbage or have the interest or set the focus on enlightenment. Yet, nonetheless, there is more enlightenment around us than ignorance. It is just that the ignorance gets most of the attention. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- snip --- When I was around 9 or 10 my best friend and I used to play this game. We would sit quietly and begin to negate our experience piece by piece. We'd alternate saying things like, The tree in the front yard doesn't exist. Your parents car doesn't exist. School doesn't exist., etc. We'd slowly negate everything we could think of. Finally we'd come to the end after negating the entire creation and we'd negate ourselves simultaneously. I remember there would be this explosion of energy and we'd both freakout and run outside screaming in delight. You have no idea who much this explains about yourself, Frasier. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- Irmeli Mattsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip It puzzles me also, why people, when they stop identifying the 'I' with an image of one's personal self, say there is no 'I' anymore. Because no I or psychological sense of me is present. It can't be found. When people (in avidya) say me they are refering to a sense of separate individuality. An abstract, felt-sense of me-ness that is private and distinct from others' me-ness. The `I' is the subject, who feels, sees, interprets and evaluates situations, makes meaning, uses concepts like enlightenment in communication, relates to others, is in dialogue with others. Yes, this is all true in avidya. It is a phenomenological reality. I exist, I think, I feel, I interprate and evaluate, I make meaning. There is always, except in deep sleep, this underlying sense of I. The fact that something is being perceived is based on subject/object dualism. The perceiver is subject, the perceived is object. The `I', the subject, cannot see itself. If it can, there is an error in perception. All this is true in waking state/avidya. The subject can see only something that is object to itself. In enlightenment this error vanishes. And another error seems to appear, the idea that there is no `I'. No, it is not an error. You are extending waking state logic into realization and it falls apart there. In realization no individuality or sense of me can be located. There is thought, there is feeling, there is everything just like waking state, but there is no I or me present. It just can't be located! People say your name as if refering to a you, but there is no you present. This I is a delusion created by the identification of pure consciousness with bound mind. Consciousness projects into and identifies with a subjective object and assumes the limitations of that object. Patanjali's metaphor of the crystal gem assuming the color of whatever it is placed on works well. The crystal appears to be colored. I mean, damn boy, I can see that it's colored! That's the phenomenology of waking state. But consciousness is not bound by any object even when it appears to be bound (hence the you're already enlightened rap). The initial stage/condition of liberation is this cessation of projection/identification of counsciousness with objects of experience. Once counsciousness pulls back into itself there is no longer any identification occuring and hence no boundary or relative limitation to consciousness. Full awareness, but no I to lay claim to be doing anything. There is nobody home, but all the lights are on and everything is working just fine. That sense of I is just a very subtle thought. Self-inquiry will reveal this. Irmeli Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:44 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: It puzzles me also, why people, when they stop identifying the 'I' with an image of one's personal self, say there is no 'I' anymore. The `I' is the subject, who feels, sees, interprets and evaluates situations, makes meaning, uses concepts like enlightenment in communication, relates to others, is in dialogue with others. The fact that something is being perceived is based on subject/object dualism. The perceiver is subject, the perceived is object. The `I', the subject, cannot see itself. If it can, there is an error in interpreting. The subject can see only something that is object to itself. In enlightenment this error vanishes. And another error seems to appear, the idea that there is no `I'. The whole topic is rather interesting. This would certainly not be considered enlightenment IMO--merely a transitory realization that I is empty and not solid. Really from a Buddhist perspective, if one is enlightened one does not claim it for a number of reasons--it causes sentient beings to argue, it creates jealousy, etc. Therefore a Buddha cannot make a declaration which will cause suffering. From that POV one who claims to be enlightened typically is not. I have to wonder if that is one of the reasons the Surangama sutra is mentioned in movement literature (and lectures)--so that people might pick it up and read it. It details all the ways that people are fooled into believing they are enlightened--and I'm sure this is one of them. Hence I call CC baby realization. Just the first experiential clarification occuring. __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T: He also set up a scale of Enlightment which appears to be quite useful since on his scale it extends from a nominal value from 700 to 1200, Pretty broad range and a lot of insight in the third book about that range and the cast of characters that play in it. Tom Better yet would be a two dimensional scale, like an xy graph. It helps dispose of the linearity and alleged necessary sequence of happenings. And even better still might be a hearty Who cares, followed by an even heartier laugh. :-) Obviously, someone does. Laughing at what they care about is, well, your style... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 12, 2005, at 4:02 PM, akasha_108 wrote: Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 12, 2005, at 2:10 PM, akasha_108 wrote: Enlightenment, connates, to me at least, an endpoint. Hmmm. Never got that., although unimpeded omniscience might seem that way. Well it you may have a broader view than many. Why label some initial state with a high falutin term like enlightenment. It never made sense to me. Nor me. My lingering question having been a youngster when I started TM--as I strongly suspected we weren't being given the full picture- - was what did others have to say? Seven states of Consciousness? The Self resting in the Self? Eventually you get the answers. Look deep enough and you get the experiences too, not stuck on some initial experiences of clarity or bliss or the elements relaxing or calm or movement or presence. Maybe call it first light or groggy, but eyes are open or ascended above sea level or less localized (instead of cosmic) or release from prison to a half-way house with ankle braclet instead of liberation. Yeah I remember after learning Sanskrit trying to find out what all the *real* words were for all the TM buzzwords and experiences. Cosmic Consciousness wasn't that cosmic at all, how disappointing and how enlightening. All it really means is Beyond the Fourth. Merely normal didn't tip you off? It was interesting after TM daze to hang out with yogis who had profound experiential knowledge and seeing all these students who thought they were enlightened. A real learning experience. But MMY obviously hasn't a clue... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T: I have two friends who are Enlightened Spare egg writes: And you know this because? Tom T: Takes one to know one. and as Rick insinuated I know a lot more than two. More like 32 or so. I was referring to these specific two who had the same experience independently of each other. Your milage may vary. Tom And you know you're enlightened, how? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Yeah I remember after learning Sanskrit trying to find out what all the *real* words were for all the TM buzzwords and experiences. Cosmic Consciousness wasn't that cosmic at all, how disappointing and how enlightening. All it really means is Beyond the Fourth. Merely normal didn't tip you off? Some people get all caught up in their own fantasies and don't pay any attention to what MMY tells them. Cosmic!! Wow!! Then, when their fantasies collapse, they blame MMY. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Irmeli: It puzzles me also, why people, when they stop identifying the 'I' with an image of one's personal self, say there is no 'I' anymore. Peter: Because no I or psychological sense of me is present. It can't be found. When people (in avidya) say me they are refering to a sense of separate individuality. An abstract, felt-sense of me-ness that is private and distinct from others' me-ness. 1) An abstract, felt-sense of me-ness that is private and distinct from others' me-ness. 2) people (in avidya) say me refering to a sense of separate individuality. IME point one is the salient thing that distinguishes i) localized/specific identity and ii) non-localized/non-specific/non-distinct/undifferentiated identity. (To say that the latter is universal identity is a hard to validate hypothesis -- though supported by traditional views. And to say it is an identity is a misnomer, thus the quotes. ) While point 2 can be read as an equivalent and restatement of point 1, it can also refer to the obvious -- that in a social group there are many distinct social personalities -- sometimes more than the number of people in the group. :) Akasha's social self is distinct, as is Peters, and both are quite distinct from the non-localized/non-specific/undifferentiated identity. Keeping this semantic distinction in mind might contribute to clearer communication. The `I' is the subject, who feels, sees, interprets and evaluates situations, makes meaning, uses concepts like enlightenment in communication, relates to others, is in dialogue with others. Yes, this is all true in avidya. It is a phenomenological reality. I exist, I think, I feel, I interprate and evaluate, I make meaning. There is always, except in deep sleep, this underlying sense of I. IME, IMV, mind being the thought receptor, and intellect being the deciding mechanism, there is a Peter mind and intellect, as there is one for Akasha and Irmeli. Thoughts come effortlessly to all the receptors. To claim ownership is a hall of mirrors type thing. Getting caught in hall of mirrors promotes a feeling of my thoughts and from there -- my thoughts seem inherently correct. Thats a contribution of Byron Katie -- and others -- to pound that false and almost default notion out of ones intellect. And the intellect acts by itself -- without any doer -- though again in the hall of mirrors, it can appear so. Or such sense of false owneship is just a default state -- that often is not questioned and thus stays stuck in that mode. The non-localized/non-specific/non-distinct/undifferentiated identity has nothing to do with the thought recpetor or deciding mechanism. In contrast, a localized identity pops up in the hall of mirrors and claims ownership and doership. (If you really beleive you are really the doer, then STOP thinking, stop evaluating and deciding.) P: There is thought, there is feeling, there is everything just like waking state, but there is no I or me present. It just can't be located! People say your name as if refering to a you, but there is no you present. Though the I may appear to be gone, I wonder if its existence can be implied. Like a black hole, it can't be seen -- it appears not there, but can be inferred as objects in motion are deflected by its gravitational force. For example, if one with NO I feels insulted, or gets angry, what feels the insult? Its not the non-localized identity. Though the social self has mind and intellect that functions independent of the non-localized identity, per your experience there is no ego, no I. So there is no thing to receive the insult. Thus, it should just dissipate, like waves in a stick through water or air type thing. Or simply travel right through the empty space of non-individuatity, like light contining to travel through space, in contrast to reflecting off a thing in its path and exploding in light. Using this analogy, it would appear that (still) having a sense of being insulted implies some traces of ego remain -- even if one cannot see ego directly. Again, if there is no I, the light or energy of the insult has nothing to reflect off of. Thus no sense of insult. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
Henceforth, this definition of Self-realization has to count as a classic.. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is nobody home, but all the lights are on and everything is working just fine. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T: I have two friends who are Enlightened Spare egg writes: And you know this because? Tom T: Takes one to know one. and as Rick insinuated I know a lot more than two. More like 32 or so. I was referring to these specific two who had the same experience independently of each other. Your milage may vary. Tom And you know you're enlightened, how? I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tom T: I have two friends who are Enlightened Spare egg writes: And you know this because? Tom T: Takes one to know one. and as Rick insinuated I know a lot more than two. More like 32 or so. I was referring to these specific two who had the same experience independently of each other. Your milage may vary. Tom And you know you're enlightened, how? I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. That settles it, for sure. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Full awareness, but no I to lay claim to be doing anything. There is nobody home, but all the lights are on and everything is working just fine. That sense of I is just a very subtle thought. Self-inquiry will reveal this. Although I no longer exists, do you find that you can think that very subtle thought anyway, if you choose to? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Full awareness, but no I to lay claim to be doing anything. There is nobody home, but all the lights are on and everything is working just fine. That sense of I is just a very subtle thought. Self-inquiry will reveal this. Although I no longer exists, do you find that you can think that very subtle thought anyway, if you choose to? Why would one imagine they are an ostrich if they are not? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [FairfieldLife] Re: Proclaiming ones enlightenment
I told Tom he was enlightened and he told me that I was enlightened, so there. Hahahave you ever had someone tell you that you had reached enlightenment? Its a lot like someone informing you of a past life you dont remember; or getting the gas bill: Okeedoke, Ill take your word for it lol Seriouslyhow does anyone ever know??? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
