[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Thanks Denise, sounds good !!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: Touche (there is supposed to be an accent on that e).  It is not my intent to judge or criticize you...we all have the right to worship the belief system and/or spiritual leader that resonates with us. I am glad that you take what you like and leave the rest...in the end, so did I.  That says that the ability to discern remains.  I didn't meet a single person or IAM teacher that did not acknowledge her as the divine mother.  She was put forth as the divine mother in the group lectures and meditations.  She is acknowledged as the divine mother all over the internet by devotees and amritapuri alike. It doesn't matter to me...I was just calling a spade a spade. Perhaps the semantic details have blurred with her increase in celebrity status.  It seemed to me that people were in a trance - but perhaps this was bliss brought on in part by extended meditation and surround sound - I was just curious about it.   I mentioned in passing to a friend of mine a couple of months ago that I had seen Amma.  I was surprised that she knew of her - turns out that she works with someone who follows Amma around during her tour here, and she mentioned (with no provocation from me) that this woman comes back very spaced out and it takes her several days to be able to produce anything at work, which worries her as, in addition, all of this woman's conversation revolves around Amma. Re: the life force comment - after I wrote it and a few other posts, I realized that I am no one to talk...I gave way too much of my physical, mental, and emotional energetic self away to my work for years before I finally hit the wall. I feel like I am in recovery and I am not bouncing back a day later.  My stress level is still far too high too often. I was able to get some discourse about Amma on this site and the other (from you, for example).  After our visit, it was recommended to me that I read her books and just follow the instructionsno questions asked.for chanting the mantra and doing the IAM meditation, both of which seemed quite prescriptive to me and therefore spurred my innate rebellion and desire to ask why  should I pray to this woman as god, and why should I support my teenager to do so, no questions asked.  I cannot dispute your observations re: Westerners and Indians and cultish behavior.  I agree.  Westerners have no cultural or time-tested context for Hinduism.  I was definitely looking for an answer and did no prior research on anything - so naive that I thought, prior to our visit, that the presence of these saints in our midst was some sort of spiritual truth I'd been missing out on all these years :) that was independent of religion.  I have askedWhy do all the enlightened gurus come out of India?  One person told me it was simple population statistics. Hm.ya think?  --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:09 AM Denise, I will keep presenting my case as long as you and I are around. :-) You do appear to take what you like and leave the restIsn't this what we do in any situation? I think most everyone take what they like and leave the rest in the world and around Amma. We go to a coffee shop and get what we like and leave the rest, I just can't agree with your generalization, sure a higher percentage of them might consider her as an avatar or divine mother but if you polled them there views will dramatically differ as well. Initially some of them (like I did) might be aping just trying to fit in and will change and fine tune their practices. Many of the devotees I met had some far off, spaced out lookIsn't this again true for the outside world. I see spaced out drivers, spaced out colleagues, space out shoppers everywhere. Sure we might remark at their stupidity, laugh at them for a few minutes, but we move on. We don't let these people distract us from our goal or what we need to finish, we don't stop driving, stop working or shopping. When people get confused and start giving their life force over to someone elseAgain is this unique to just spiritual groups? I see how people are caught in a 24x7 rut trapped in the material world expecting happiness from a million dollar house, a million dollar wife, kids and other possessions. Some are caught in worshiping movie stars, sport icons, some in various political, religious ideologies. Is this not handing over life force to someone else? In fact spirituality ultimately IS about not handing over life force to others and people come there for that life purpose, now you can't make fun of someone for their ignorance, most start from square one. But then, in the Hindu tradition, one does subjugate oneself to one's guruWhen around Amma, keep an eye out
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Denise, I will keep presenting my case as long as you and I are around. :-) You do appear to take what you like and leave the restIsn't this what we do in any situation? I think most everyone take what they like and leave the rest in the world and around Amma. We go to a coffee shop and get what we like and leave the rest, I just can't agree with your generalization, sure a higher percentage of them might consider her as an avatar or divine mother but if you polled them there views will dramatically differ as well. Initially some of them (like I did) might be aping just trying to fit in and will change and fine tune their practices. Many of the devotees I met had some far off, spaced out lookIsn't this again true for the outside world. I see spaced out drivers, spaced out colleagues, space out shoppers everywhere. Sure we might remark at their stupidity, laugh at them for a few minutes, but we move on. We don't let these people distract us from our goal or what we need to finish, we don't stop driving, stop working or shopping. When people get confused and start giving their life force over to someone elseAgain is this unique to just spiritual groups? I see how people are caught in a 24x7 rut trapped in the material world expecting happiness from a million dollar house, a million dollar wife, kids and other possessions. Some are caught in worshiping movie stars, sport icons, some in various political, religious ideologies. Is this not handing over life force to someone else? In fact spirituality ultimately IS about not handing over life force to others and people come there for that life purpose, now you can't make fun of someone for their ignorance, most start from square one. But then, in the Hindu tradition, one does subjugate oneself to one's guruWhen around Amma, keep an eye out for the differences between Indians and Westerners. IME all cult-ish behavior is exhibited by Western born, I'm sure the Judeo-Christian conditioning plays a strong part. Regardless of your usage of subjugation Indians are conditioned to separate the inner and outer worlds. Their goal is to subjugate the ego, the shadow, you don't see them handing over all their possessions to the spiritual Guru. Occasionally one does does but they have strong inclination of detachment, most have possessions, family and majority don't relinquish worldly lives. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: You do appear to take what you like and leave the restshe absolutely asserts herself as the divine mother and is uniformly referred to as such by everyone I attended the retreat with. Â Doesn't Amma mean mother? Â Many of the devotees I met had some far off, spaced out look - what is up with that look in the eye? Â I felt like.where are you? was the appropriate question. If you believe that with her grace, life is easier, than so it is. Â For me, grace is a very comforting thing as well. Â If I keep it simple, it works. I appreciate her big picture message of love and compassion - the concept of spreading this message is a good thing and she reaches millions. Â However, her energy appears to desire and elicit worship - the message to pray to Amma was embedded in all aspects of the retreat. But then, in the Hindu tradition, one does subjugate oneself to one's guru. Â I was just raised without an emotional attachment to any religion - it isn't a natural thing for me to worship a guruor Jesus either for that matter. Â I have never believed that he was God, yet I do believe he was also a very very special person with a similar message of love and compassion (that was corrupted through interpretation). Â When people get confused and start giving their life force over to someone elsedangerous things can happen. --- On Mon, 7/25/11, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 25, 2011, 12:24 AM I don't consider Amma as an avatar or divine mother, IMO most who do are just engaging in an intellectual concept. Not that there's anything wrong with it, since the very faith, trust transforms. However IME she is definitely a Satguru and a very very rare and a special person, not considering her as an avatar or divine mother is not at all a handicap by any means. The key is not outside of you, it's just that with her grace it so much easier.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Touche (there is supposed to be an accent on that e). It is not my intent to judge or criticize you...we all have the right to worship the belief system and/or spiritual leader that resonates with us. I am glad that you take what you like and leave the rest...in the end, so did I. That says that the ability to discern remains. I didn't meet a single person or IAM teacher that did not acknowledge her as the divine mother. She was put forth as the divine mother in the group lectures and meditations. She is acknowledged as the divine mother all over the internet by devotees and amritapuri alike. It doesn't matter to me...I was just calling a spade a spade. Perhaps the semantic details have blurred with her increase in celebrity status. It seemed to me that people were in a trance - but perhaps this was bliss brought on in part by extended meditation and surround sound - I was just curious about it. I mentioned in passing to a friend of mine a couple of months ago that I had seen Amma. I was surprised that she knew of her - turns out that she works with someone who follows Amma around during her tour here, and she mentioned (with no provocation from me) that this woman comes back very spaced out and it takes her several days to be able to produce anything at work, which worries her as, in addition, all of this woman's conversation revolves around Amma. Re: the life force comment - after I wrote it and a few other posts, I realized that I am no one to talk...I gave way too much of my physical, mental, and emotional energetic self away to my work for years before I finally hit the wall. I feel like I am in recovery and I am not bouncing back a day later. My stress level is still far too high too often. I was able to get some discourse about Amma on this site and the other (from you, for example). After our visit, it was recommended to me that I read her books and just follow the instructionsno questions asked.for chanting the mantra and doing the IAM meditation, both of which seemed quite prescriptive to me and therefore spurred my innate rebellion and desire to ask why should I pray to this woman as god, and why should I support my teenager to do so, no questions asked. I cannot dispute your observations re: Westerners and Indians and cultish behavior. I agree. Westerners have no cultural or time-tested context for Hinduism. I was definitely looking for an answer and did no prior research on anything - so naive that I thought, prior to our visit, that the presence of these saints in our midst was some sort of spiritual truth I'd been missing out on all these years :) that was independent of religion. I have askedWhy do all the enlightened gurus come out of India? One person told me it was simple population statistics. Hm.ya think? --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 1:09 AM Denise, I will keep presenting my case as long as you and I are around. :-) You do appear to take what you like and leave the restIsn't this what we do in any situation? I think most everyone take what they like and leave the rest in the world and around Amma. We go to a coffee shop and get what we like and leave the rest, I just can't agree with your generalization, sure a higher percentage of them might consider her as an avatar or divine mother but if you polled them there views will dramatically differ as well. Initially some of them (like I did) might be aping just trying to fit in and will change and fine tune their practices. Many of the devotees I met had some far off, spaced out lookIsn't this again true for the outside world. I see spaced out drivers, spaced out colleagues, space out shoppers everywhere. Sure we might remark at their stupidity, laugh at them for a few minutes, but we move on. We don't let these people distract us from our goal or what we need to finish, we don't stop driving, stop working or shopping. When people get confused and start giving their life force over to someone elseAgain is this unique to just spiritual groups? I see how people are caught in a 24x7 rut trapped in the material world expecting happiness from a million dollar house, a million dollar wife, kids and other possessions. Some are caught in worshiping movie stars, sport icons, some in various political, religious ideologies. Is this not handing over life force to someone else? In fact spirituality ultimately IS about not handing over life force to others and people come there for that life purpose, now you can't make fun of someone for their ignorance, most start from square one. But then, in the Hindu tradition, one does subjugate oneself to one's guruWhen around Amma, keep an eye out for the differences between Indians
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
I don't consider Amma as an avatar or divine mother, IMO most who do are just engaging in an intellectual concept. Not that there's anything wrong with it, since the very faith, trust transforms. However IME she is definitely a Satguru and a very very rare and a special person, not considering her as an avatar or divine mother is not at all a handicap by any means. The key is not outside of you, it's just that with her grace it so much easier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: That explains itI knew there was a reason were were praying to Amma as God - Â or God and Goddess as the case may be! What about Jesus? Â Does he qualify as an avatar? Â Interestingly, I met a woman who travels extensively to follow both Amma and Mother Meera. Â She's lower key at this point, but so was Amma at one point before celebrity hit. --- On Sun, 7/24/11, fflmod fflmod@... wrote: From: fflmod fflmod@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 2:26 PM Â Amma is an avatar, an incarnation of the divine. Not a karmic human at all. That is why the name of Amma is prevalent throughout the bhajans and elsewhere. There is no difference between praying to God and praying to an avatar. A familiar example of this is how in MMY's Gita, Krishna is referred to as the Lord. An interesting case is that of Mother Meera. Mother Meera is also an avatar and recommends that seekers do japa (repeating the name of the divine as often during the day as possible) to Mother Meera. Yet, Mother Meera is as far from being a guru-led organization and/or a cult as can be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dmevans365 dmevans365@ wrote: I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an energy transfer or hit during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a powerful person energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process. This time we went individually and brought our questions that we kept in our minds, as Amma could supposedly intuit and respond. Again, a manhandled hug routine (hands placed particularly, head pushed forward on chest, with a monotone repetition of a word in the right ear). I attended the IAM meditation course and enjoyed it, but was put off by the requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement. It was at this point I began to feel like I was being encouraged to pray to Amma - based on the Swami lectures, instruction and visualization received during the meditation. Amma was continually
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fflmod fflmod@... wrote: Amma is an avatar, an incarnation of the divine. Not a karmic human at all. That is why the name of Amma is prevalent throughout the bhajans and elsewhere. There is no difference between praying to God and praying to an avatar. A familiar example of this is how in MMY's Gita, Krishna is referred to as the Lord. An interesting case is that of Mother Meera. Mother Meera is also an avatar and recommends that seekers do japa (repeating the name of the divine as often during the day as possible) to Mother Meera. Yet, Mother Meera is as far from being a guru-led organization and/or a cult as can be. According to Mr. Creme there are no female Avatars on earth at this time. Anananda Mayi Ma was so far the last.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
You do appear to take what you like and leave the restshe absolutely asserts herself as the divine mother and is uniformly referred to as such by everyone I attended the retreat with. Doesn't Amma mean mother? Many of the devotees I met had some far off, spaced out look - what is up with that look in the eye? I felt like.where are you? was the appropriate question. If you believe that with her grace, life is easier, than so it is. For me, grace is a very comforting thing as well. If I keep it simple, it works. I appreciate her big picture message of love and compassion - the concept of spreading this message is a good thing and she reaches millions. However, her energy appears to desire and elicit worship - the message to pray to Amma was embedded in all aspects of the retreat. But then, in the Hindu tradition, one does subjugate oneself to one's guru. I was just raised without an emotional attachment to any religion - it isn't a natural thing for me to worship a guruor Jesus either for that matter. I have never believed that he was God, yet I do believe he was also a very very special person with a similar message of love and compassion (that was corrupted through interpretation). When people get confused and start giving their life force over to someone elsedangerous things can happen. --- On Mon, 7/25/11, Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 25, 2011, 12:24 AM I don't consider Amma as an avatar or divine mother, IMO most who do are just engaging in an intellectual concept. Not that there's anything wrong with it, since the very faith, trust transforms. However IME she is definitely a Satguru and a very very rare and a special person, not considering her as an avatar or divine mother is not at all a handicap by any means. The key is not outside of you, it's just that with her grace it so much easier. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: That explains itI knew there was a reason were were praying to Amma as God - Â or God and Goddess as the case may be! What about Jesus? Â Does he qualify as an avatar? Â Interestingly, I met a woman who travels extensively to follow both Amma and Mother Meera. Â She's lower key at this point, but so was Amma at one point before celebrity hit. --- On Sun, 7/24/11, fflmod fflmod@... wrote: From: fflmod fflmod@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 2:26 PM Â Amma is an avatar, an incarnation of the divine. Not a karmic human at all. That is why the name of Amma is prevalent throughout the bhajans and elsewhere. There is no difference between praying to God and praying to an avatar. A familiar example of this is how in MMY's Gita, Krishna is referred to as the Lord. An interesting case is that of Mother Meera. Mother Meera is also an avatar and recommends that seekers do japa (repeating the name of the divine as often during the day as possible) to Mother Meera. Yet, Mother Meera is as far from being a guru-led organization and/or a cult as can be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dmevans365 dmevans365@ wrote: I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Amma is an avatar, an incarnation of the divine. Not a karmic human at all. That is why the name of Amma is prevalent throughout the bhajans and elsewhere. There is no difference between praying to God and praying to an avatar. A familiar example of this is how in MMY's Gita, Krishna is referred to as the Lord. An interesting case is that of Mother Meera. Mother Meera is also an avatar and recommends that seekers do japa (repeating the name of the divine as often during the day as possible) to Mother Meera. Yet, Mother Meera is as far from being a guru-led organization and/or a cult as can be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dmevans365 dmevans365@... wrote: I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an energy transfer or hit during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a powerful person energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process. This time we went individually and brought our questions that we kept in our minds, as Amma could supposedly intuit and respond. Again, a manhandled hug routine (hands placed particularly, head pushed forward on chest, with a monotone repetition of a word in the right ear). I attended the IAM meditation course and enjoyed it, but was put off by the requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement. It was at this point I began to feel like I was being encouraged to pray to Amma - based on the Swami lectures, instruction and visualization received during the meditation. Amma was continually reinforced as the form to keep in our minds. We continued through the weekend - were full of so much energy Sunday evening that we worked out between 10-11 PM. We did our Seva at dinner by helping load dishes into the cart, which was fun. We participated in standing in line for hours and receiving hugs in the morning and evening, wanting to follow the scripted schedule and also waiting to feel this overwhelming love connection that so many talked about. We received blessed candy and got the dolls blessed. Monday I was up at 6:15 to do the yoga class. Monday evening was Dhevi Bhava - lots of ceremony and long, translated talk that was starting to feel very top down and condescending. Blessed water, chanting to music, change in Amma's costume to the crown and gown, and the hugs began with the loud bhajans (music) sung by a swami and group in the background. The music/chanting was very loud, repetitive, and mesmerizing; the Swami's voice was very hypnotic; the Swami lectures were
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
That explains itI knew there was a reason were were praying to Amma as God - or God and Goddess as the case may be! What about Jesus? Does he qualify as an avatar? Interestingly, I met a woman who travels extensively to follow both Amma and Mother Meera. She's lower key at this point, but so was Amma at one point before celebrity hit. --- On Sun, 7/24/11, fflmod ffl...@yahoo.com wrote: From: fflmod ffl...@yahoo.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 2:26 PM Amma is an avatar, an incarnation of the divine. Not a karmic human at all. That is why the name of Amma is prevalent throughout the bhajans and elsewhere. There is no difference between praying to God and praying to an avatar. A familiar example of this is how in MMY's Gita, Krishna is referred to as the Lord. An interesting case is that of Mother Meera. Mother Meera is also an avatar and recommends that seekers do japa (repeating the name of the divine as often during the day as possible) to Mother Meera. Yet, Mother Meera is as far from being a guru-led organization and/or a cult as can be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dmevans365 dmevans365@... wrote: I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an energy transfer or hit during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a powerful person energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process. This time we went individually and brought our questions that we kept in our minds, as Amma could supposedly intuit and respond. Again, a manhandled hug routine (hands placed particularly, head pushed forward on chest, with a monotone repetition of a word in the right ear). I attended the IAM meditation course and enjoyed it, but was put off by the requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement. It was at this point I began to feel like I was being encouraged to pray to Amma - based on the Swami lectures, instruction and visualization received during the meditation. Amma was continually reinforced as the form to keep in our minds. We continued through the weekend - were full of so much energy Sunday evening that we worked out between 10-11 PM. We did our Seva at dinner by helping load dishes into the cart, which was fun. We participated in standing in line for hours and receiving hugs in the morning and evening, wanting to follow the scripted schedule and also waiting to feel
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Some people believe Jesus is an avatar. I have a friend who can see karmic structures such as the karmic body and whatever in people and he claims Amma, Mother Meera, and Karunamayi are all avatars. Divine Mother avatars. He said Sai Baba was an avatar as well, which many believe, and which would explain why Amma spoke well of him. How someone can be an avatar and perpetrate acts we consider heinous, though, is beyond most of us mortals to understand. The topic of MMY doing things that confounded us and seemed to torpedo the TM movement, when we considered him perfect for much of our adult lives, has been bandied about on this forum for years. I've heard stories of Amma's omniscience from her swamis. Here is a very interesting excerpt on the subject from Amma's senior swami: http://www.amma.org/amma/experience-aug06.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: That explains itI knew there was a reason were were praying to Amma as God - Â or God and Goddess as the case may be! What about Jesus? Â Does he qualify as an avatar? Â Interestingly, I met a woman who travels extensively to follow both Amma and Mother Meera. Â She's lower key at this point, but so was Amma at one point before celebrity hit. --- On Sun, 7/24/11, fflmod fflmod@... wrote: From: fflmod fflmod@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 24, 2011, 2:26 PM Â Amma is an avatar, an incarnation of the divine. Not a karmic human at all. That is why the name of Amma is prevalent throughout the bhajans and elsewhere. There is no difference between praying to God and praying to an avatar. A familiar example of this is how in MMY's Gita, Krishna is referred to as the Lord. An interesting case is that of Mother Meera. Mother Meera is also an avatar and recommends that seekers do japa (repeating the name of the divine as often during the day as possible) to Mother Meera. Yet, Mother Meera is as far from being a guru-led organization and/or a cult as can be. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dmevans365 dmevans365@ wrote: I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an energy transfer or hit during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a powerful person energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Thank you to you and everyone who responded to this post. I was nervous about posting, however the feedback has helped me immensely in putting this experience in perspective and I feel much more peaceful around it. All my experiences end up pointing me back inside myself - there will be no single savior, so to speak - I remain responsible for claiming my life, loving myself, and staying accountable. Given where my children are in their development, I would hesitate to bring them again as becoming distracted by the outer trappings and messages, without having a foundation of knowledge or experience or discrimination to allow incorporation into the larger picture, creates confusion. Although, they were not as confused as I, it turns out. My older teenage daughter also received a direct energy hit from Amma and sensed that Amma was a powerful being - it scared her (because she also didn't feel the love) and she left the retreat early. My younger teenage daughter embraced it all at face value, liked the candy and doll and ritual and music and enjoyed the entire weekend (with her friend) - however, she came home ready to pray to Amma as God and all-knowing, which I had a problem with. She has yet to develop her critical thinking skills and based on her learning issues, may never. After all, I am her mother and I don't want to have to argue with a divine mother :) Tee Hee. All is well, and thank you again. --- On Sat, 6/18/11, Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 10:20 PM Thanks for your comments Kevin !! You have put it aptly - you experienced the love in you. A Satguru just acts as the perfect mirror reflecting the divine, the love in us. In India Guru is equated with God, as in symbolic of God. Many who meet Amma fall in love with her, her love, compassion, unconditional acceptance and then in their exuberance would love to worship her. Not that she asks for it, they would love to copy her, but slowly with maturity it should dawn upon us that this love is not outside of us, that it is intrinsic to us, that existence doesn't create copycats. With awareness comes the knowledge that we are perfect as we are, that we are authentic, unique expressions of the divine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shanti2218411 kc21d@... wrote: Ravi very well put.My experience with Amma has been much more limited but like you while I have not felt ANY need to think of her as GOD I have been in awe of the love I have experienced in her presence and when I and my wife and daughter received her hug. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Steve - regardless of how my messages come across, I am not reacting. I really don't care for praise or criticism, for me the content doesn't matter, the consciousness that the other and I bring to it. Though my messages definitely reflect my samskaras and vasanas (mental tendencies and inclination), i.e. they are harsh, they have no bearing on my consciousness. I'm not a diplomat nor I am a politician, I'm not here to please anyone or make fans. In fact I'm in no hurry to respond to anything. Similar to Rick I thought Denise's message was sincere and honest and since Rick did a really good job responding to her I didn't really feel like adding anything much even though I spent quite a bit of time of contemplating how I could answer her best. Since you have put me on the spot :-), I will add in my 2 cents. Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white people dressed in white
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Sorry it's kind of lame, but below are my responses to this hilarious post. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Now *this* is the quality of call and response I miss on Fairfield Life. Good, now you have an example of how to do it. LOL.. Rick had every opportunity to overreact to this post, and to get all defensive or even abrasive in his response. Actually, most people will respond this way to a post that doesn't try to put them down. You should try it sometime. (Hint: The post I'm responding to isn't an example.) LOL.. And yet that didn't happen. The fact that it didn't speaks IMO to the concept of spiritual maturity on both sides of the conversation. It speaks to the concept of respectful disagreement (and there wasn't even that much disagreement). Would that this level of exchange were more common. You could arrange for it to be significantly more common if you'd engage in it yourself. LOL..
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Good point. Maybe you could wear a ski mask?? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
their experience of how wonderful and beatific and divine she is. Amma is just another human beingno doubt very sincerebut utterly and hopelessly deceived. AMMA HAS NO IDEA WHO THE REAL PERSON IS SHE IS SUPPOSED TO BE. It is just a tragedy how many minds are being weakened and invaded by a spiritual context which does not bear a one to one relationship with reality. Amma, whatever powers have been bestowed upon her, could never allow the experience you had to occur were she connected deeply to reality, to the intelligence of loving goodness which created the universeand youand Amma. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: I like the point about the caliber of followers - I did meet many interesting and intelligent and kind folks.  And, given the size of her following, all personalities will be represented.  Overall, my main and only problem was with the message to pray to Amma as God, but that is also possibly a reflective response to my bias and of my experience.  Years ago, I almost joined an evangelistic Christian church because I was so overwhelmed by the love I received from the church members as a new prospective member.  But, I couldn't get over the idea that Jesus wasn't God and later noted a number of hypocritical behaviors.  Now that I'm older and also can be judgemental, etc., I see some of these as the human condition.  It doesn't appear that anyone's reality is exactly like another's.  I do agree that there are many teachers of many faiths that remind us of the principles of love, compassion, service, and respect for the environment and that is all a good thing.  --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: From: Rick Archer rick@... Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 11:37 AM  Canât argue with you. your perspective is well-thought-out and well-written. Mine is that I know folks who see Amma or even live in her ashram who span a wide range of personal and spiritual maturity. Some are quite cultish in their thinking and behavior, some quite independent. On the whole though, Iâve always been impressed with the caliber and âvibeâ of the people around Amma. Maharishi used to say that you can tell the quality of a teacher by the quality of his/her followers, and from my perspective, Ammaâs followers are evidence of a benign teacher. The young people who have been hanging with her seem to be turning out very well â bright, sincere, drug-free, and Amma steers them into higher education. I doubt that there is a spiritual movement on earth that doesnât have its disgruntled deserters. I agree with your comment about Sai Baba. I donât know whether or why Amma said what she is reported to have said about him, but if she did, IMO she was wrong. But thatâs just my opinion. YMMV.  From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:13 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma   I respect the idea of taking what works for you and leaving the rest.  That can work if one, as an adult, doesn't give up one's ability to assess critically by embracing blind faith.  For me, however, while I enjoyed the food, music, service, meditation, group faith and even the opportunity to purchase/shop for CD's and books, the bottom line is that if one delves a bit deeper into the message, the more subtle aspects of it push/encourage/reinforce on a constant basis the concept that Amma is the one to be prayed to and that she is divine and an incarnation of God.  This wouldn't have been evident unless if we hadn't embraced the three-day retreat/immersion.  While this may be what a saint is, it is also a danger if one truly gives up a potential personal and direct connection to the Universal consciousness that we all can have as souls and turning over one's life and independent thought process and questioning nature to another human (I still see her as human, despite her ability to manipulate energy or alleged all-knowing, psychic skills).   Not everyone does this, but the devotees who do may spend years of their life and their money in this effort and get in so deep that they lose themselves and their families in the process.  I think the concepts of disappointment, let down, or betrayal do not go far enough to explain the spiritual crisis that occurs when the discrepancies between the ideals/big picture teachings and the actual behavior of the saint or organization bear witness to the fact that this is not God, but in fact a human construct with agendas reflecting ego and control and acquisition of wealth and corporate-like growth.  One must be careful in deciding to follow
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: Dear Denise Evans, If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to demonstrate this. I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what evidence *you* have that determination in this sense is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Of course it's anthropomorphism. I take it that the unstated premise of people who write on this blog is that the universe expresses a providential design and a providential execution. The existence of individual beings inside a metaphysical context of perfect meaningfulness. It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic purposefulness built into the universe. For the sake of argument I am assuming the ontological truth of this unproven assumption. If you start without this a priori given, then there is nothing to say about Amma but: This is BSbecause I and you are cosmic accidents. And Amma cannot, because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy that has some intrinsic relationship to reality. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: Dear Denise Evans, If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to demonstrate this. I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what evidence *you* have that determination in this sense is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism to me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Hmmm.Had to look it up. From the perspective of adherents to religions in which humans were created in the form of the divine, the phenomenon (of anthropomorphism) may be considered theomorphism, or the giving of divine qualities to humans (Wikipedia). I don't think this concept applies exactly if one believes that, after many years of praying to Krishna (which is Amma's story), she had a vision where she was essentially enveloped on all levels by Kali and ultimately now...projects Devi (a less controversial divine mother to us westerners). There is evidence (first-account stories) and passionate opinion on both sides of the question as to whether Amma's org has evolved to a point where it's original ideals are suffering from human ego and all that comes with it. Time will tell. --- On Sat, 6/18/11, authfriend jst...@panix.com wrote: From: authfriend jst...@panix.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 8:34 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: Dear Denise Evans, If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to demonstrate this. I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what evidence *you* have that determination in this sense is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism to me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
With this takethen devotees have assigned divine qualities to Amma and hence the anthropomorphism label. It is perhaps splitting hairs to say that another perspective is that devotees haven't assigned divine qualities - she simply IS the divine. Of course, either way...these thoughts come out of a human brain. I don't profess to know for sure whether there is any intrinsic purpose to the Universe or our existence in it - but our human brains sure have been puzzling over this for eons - simply that evidence may be an argument one way or the other. --- On Sat, 6/18/11, maskedzebra no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: maskedzebra no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 9:59 AM Of course it's anthropomorphism. I take it that the unstated premise of people who write on this blog is that the universe expresses a providential design and a providential execution. The existence of individual beings inside a metaphysical context of perfect meaningfulness. It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic purposefulness built into the universe. For the sake of argument I am assuming the ontological truth of this unproven assumption. If you start without this a priori given, then there is nothing to say about Amma but: This is BS—because I and you are cosmic accidents. And Amma cannot, because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy that has some intrinsic relationship to reality. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: Dear Denise Evans, If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to demonstrate this. I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what evidence *you* have that determination in this sense is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism to me.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
WOW. InterestingI should have read this first.case closedwe are all enlightened to the degree that we are...Tee Hee. --- On Sat, 6/18/11, maskedzebra no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: From: maskedzebra no_re...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 8:08 AM Dear Denise Evans, If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to demonstrate this. In fact the universe, reality, has never gone out of its way to validate ANY claim of spiritual perfection. So my conclusion is: this supposed 'higher state of consciousness' does not exist. Or, if it exists, it exists through mystical deceit, and is, therefore, at bottom, an hallucination. Assume there really is such a thing as Enlightenment: why, if such a sublime and extraordinary possibility is the potential of every human being, there remains no convincing and empirical proof of this? I contend because it is a much more absolute truth that SUCH AN ONTOLOGICAL STATE OF AFFAIRS IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR A CREATED BEING. Reality (what is really the case) knows this; therefore the consensus in the West is, either explicitly or implicitly, THERE IS NO SUCH THING. This is a lie. Now let us assume for the sake of argument that I am right. Then what this must mean is, that ANYONE who professes to be in a higher state of consciousness (like Amma) is not only deceived about this, but necessarily is deceiving others. Pray tell: WHY HAS NO ONE BEEN ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE THE TRUTH OF ENLIGHTENMENT? Or rather: why has not nature, reality, God, the universe decided (out of compassion and love and truthfulness) to make it known that 1. such a state does in fact exist, and it is contained within the DNA potential of every human being 2. that there are criteria you can objectively apply to determine whether someone is enlightened or not, and here they are. Supposing my thesis is correct (coincides with reality), then this must mean that to attribute this metaphysical status or power to another human being (who, according to my argument, cannot, based on the nature of what it means to be a human being, achieve such a state of consciousness) necessarily means that a profound form of deception—in the case of Amma I am sure unintentional and unwitting—is entailed in projecting this enlightened idea upon her. Because, you see, Denise, IT MEANS THAT ONE IS BEING TAKEN FOR A RIDE INTO PURE FANTASY. And this ultimately is destabilizing, dislocating, debilitating—because one is experiencing something that does not in fact exist. Your account of the Amma Retreat bears all of this out. Here is a normal, intelligent, skeptical but discerning and sincere person, opening themselves to all that Amma has to offer. And what is the result? It is as you have described it—and I note this: I COULD NOT DETECT A SINGLE BIT OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU YOURSELF WERE PREJUDICED—or that there was anything within you which would preclude you from forming a reasonably objective and normal judgment of what you witnessed at this Amma Retreat. And THAT is the most critical and confronting truth in your account: as in: IS THIS PERSON'S OWN BIASES PREVENTING HER FROM HAVING THE KIND OF EXPERIENCE SHE WOULD HAVE HAD HAD SHE NOT BEEN CLOSED TO REALITY? Not a chance. How you come off both in your original account and then in your response to the commentary that others on this blog have offered is as a normal, thoughtful, and reasonable human being. The strain and effort to somehow pick apart your story is greater than whatever went into your simple and straightforward narration of your experience. You are grounded in the truth of what I have argued is the case. Those who would try to persuade you—however elegantly, gracefully (e.g. the very honest Rick Archer)—that you missed something, overlooked something, were oblivious to other aspects of the retreat—or misinterpreted what you saw—they bear the burden of proof—AND IT SHOWS in the innocent trauma and anxiety (however faint) embedded in their responses. If you somehow got it all wrong, Denise—or even partly wrong—then somehow the arguments marshalled by these Amma devotees would act as a countervailing force of innocent intelligence against the impression you had formed and the judgment you have reached about Amma. Or, you would find yourself attempting to resist the dissonance created in your heart by these arguments. I have read your responses, and there is strong evidence of just the opposite: you have acquired a sense of peace and resolution on this matter, and in encountering the perspective of those who would try to persuade you you have not really seen who Amma is, or what she is all about, your own position is only strengthened. And this is, in my reading of the situation, the most profound proof that: YOU
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
This is very thoughtful. I think I was disappointed in that I had expectations of feeling some kind of overwhelming love and compassion as she is the saint supposedly dispensing this and no, it was not outwardly apparent. I did receive a mantra to pray to the divine mother and was put off by the instruction to chant it all the time with blind faith. The mantra itself is also an outer construct in the way I choose to interpret it. The hours of meditation and energy experienced were powerful and yes, leaving the outer religious construct behind and my overactive brain with it, in the end, I am left with an experience that has spurred a lot of thought internally and a desire to be a more conscious and compassionate person, letting go of so many patterns that are no longer working for me as a human in the last third of her life on this planet. --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviy...@att.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 6:40 PM Denise - and as they say you have to pass though hell to get to heaven, so nothing is going to change around Amma because it's a perfect contrast, a metaphor or pun of the play of the opposites, the play of the outer and the inner. There's many who are stuck in the outer, spend their entire lives analyzing and discussing it, some completely close it and project happiness, joy and wonder. The doors of bliss are not opened until you open the door to misery, the Self is not revealed unless you acknowledge the shadow, good luck in your spiritual journey. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that I have articulated in the above paragraphs. Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment. My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others are as well. The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need to even go back to her again. The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign. I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well. But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel, intuit, don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry. Then go back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you, this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma. Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around Amma, that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma - nothing could be farther from truth. In fact I don't follow the party line at all, I don't consider Amma as a God or Devi or some incarnation - in fact I don't consider anything outside of me. I was not interested in chanting, mantras or rituals, in fact, though born as a Hindu, I considered myself more as an atheist growing up. But Amma supported me in my journey
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: Of course it's anthropomorphism. I take it that the unstated premise of people who write on this blog is that the universe expresses a providential design and a providential execution. The existence of individual beings inside a metaphysical context of perfect meaningfulness. It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic purposefulness built into the universe. For the sake of argument I am assuming the ontological truth of this unproven assumption. If you start without this a priori given, then there is nothing to say about Amma but: This is BS--because I and you are cosmic accidents. And Amma cannot, because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy that has some intrinsic relationship to reality. By saying that a premise is unstated, you cannot be sure that is the premise behind posters' statements. It is not my premise that the universe expresses a providential design. But by stating that anthropomorphism is the premise you made these posts under, I cannot take issue with that. And they are very interesting posts. I think metaphysics *is* meaningless, that metaphysics is a poetical way of expressing inexpressible experience, just not in any way factual; but that meaning is derived nonetheless because we manufacture it in our minds; even if the universe is totally deterministic, this process occurs. When this creative intelligence of meaning (because this is what makes the world seem as it is - this is creation) is added in our experience and we become bamboozled by it, this is what I would call falling from the manufactured metaphysical idea of grace. The only way to create a coherent philosophy that has some relation to reality is with facts (science). And yet this leaves us only with what a meta-physician would call the material world; we can only have ideas about particulars of a world fragmented by ideas, beliefs, and try to match up those ideas with the particular experiences using observation and logic. When we get to the whole of experience, we are at a loss for words, there is no way to experience it or talk about it factually, so we revert to poetry as it were, metaphysics. But because there are no facts, there is no proof. There is only the experience, which is private. To talk about it we need to create a web of surrogate facts - fictions - and hope that somehow it will click in the mind of another, that they will get the experience without falling under the spell of the story thus created. Meditation is a tool that hopefully will eventually allow the experience of seeing through the mirage of metaphysical story telling, and to see the relationship of the ideas in our heads to the pieces of the universe that we think of as facts, or *real events*, that is, material happenings, and also the relationship of those ideas we attach to experiences that seem to transcend these material happenings. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: Dear Denise Evans, If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to demonstrate this. I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what evidence *you* have that determination in this sense is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: Of course it's anthropomorphism. I take it that the unstated premise of people who write on this blog is that the universe expresses a providential design and a providential execution. The existence of individual beings inside a metaphysical context of perfect meaningfulness. It is of course quite possible there is no such intrinsic purposefulness built into the universe. For the sake of argument I am assuming the ontological truth of this unproven assumption. If you start without this a priori given, then there is nothing to say about Amma but: This is BSbecause I and you are cosmic accidents. (Accidents is an anthropomorphic concept.) See, I don't buy the notion of a universe that would be concerned about humans knowing specific things at specific times, but I don't buy the materialistic concept either. Seems to me those aren't the only two alternatives. I suspect the Reality is just too abstract for our terminology and conceptual vocabulary to be useful. But that doesn't necessarily stop us from experiencing that Reality on an intuitive, nonverbal level. And Amma cannot, because of this, represent ANY kind of coherent philosophy that has some intrinsic relationship to reality. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@ wrote: Dear Denise Evans, If Amma were a good thing, the universe would, unequivocally, be determined to demonstrate this. I have no dog in the Amma fight, but I'm wondering what evidence *you* have that determination in this sense is a quality of the universe. Sounds like anthropomorphism to me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
I too thought Ravi's response was thoughtful, and good advice. Spiritual movements, any movement really, channels experience in certain directions. Not all of this directiveness is conscious, but it functions like brainwashing. Having the ability to navigate these impulses that can wall us in takes a certain maturity, which Ravi expresses in his post, but if one is a novice in this business, one can be trapped. In the TM movement there is the talk of 'self-sufficiency', yet one meets so many there that seem to have none whatsoever. So having a healthy dose of caution is a really good thing to have. In some cases it might slow down progress if one is over critical, but if you are not critical enough, you can get lost. Take a break, research, read things from various traditions, and locate experiences of people in these traditions on the Internet if you can find them, if that is of interest to you, and see if you find something that resonates with you without sending up red flags that feel excessively uncomfortable. But avoiding discomfort entirely in a spiritual setting gets one nowhere. What one needs to learn to distinguish is whether the discomfort is a danger from without as opposed to some kind of purification from inside one's own mind. The latter is fine, the former is not. I you consider yourself a person with low self-esteem, I would be more careful, as low self-esteem makes one more impressionable. You also need to determine if your 'path', if you choose to call it that, is devotional, or something else, say, intellectual, as an example. Most movements that revolve around a living teacher tend to gravitate to devotion because of the character of the followers. Buddhist traditions, especially Zen, tend to be more intellectual. But I am not an encyclopeadic source in this regard, and this simplistic characterisation is probably not very useful except as a starting point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: This is very thoughtful. Â I think I was disappointed in that I had expectations of feeling some kind of overwhelming love and compassion as she is the saint supposedly dispensing this and no, it was not outwardly apparent. Â I did receive a mantra to pray to the divine mother and was put off by the instruction to chant it all the time with blind faith. The mantra itself is also an outer construct in the way I choose to interpret it. Â The hours of meditation and energy experienced were powerful and yes, leaving the outer religious construct behind and my overactive brain with it, in the end, I am left with an experience that has spurred a lot of thought internally and a desire to be a more conscious and compassionate person, letting go of so many patterns that are no longer working for me as a human in the last third of her life on this planet. Â --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 6:40 PM Denise - and as they say you have to pass though hell to get to heaven, so nothing is going to change around Amma because it's a perfect contrast, a metaphor or pun of the play of the opposites, the play of the outer and the inner. There's many who are stuck in the outer, spend their entire lives analyzing and discussing it, some completely close it and project happiness, joy and wonder. The doors of bliss are not opened until you open the door to misery, the Self is not revealed unless you acknowledge the shadow, good luck in your spiritual journey. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: It is just a tragedy how many minds are being weakened and invaded by a spiritual context which does not bear a one to one relationship with reality. And then there are ones own experiences which may be apart from the association with any teacher or system of belief which correlate with the experiences that have been noted in different traditions, and by poets and philosophers as indicative of a diffferent, call it a more refined, style of functioning. And of course, that experience does not care if there is any verification of it, or if it gets some fancy name. And I don't really follow your initial premise that if this experience was real or a possibility then it would be confirmed by reality. Not getting that. Not sure where the rule book for reality is written, except by maybe the laws of physics.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Reality is subjective - which is why getting on the same reality page with any discussion is usually not attainable...although I find the discussion itself worthwhile. --- On Sat, 6/18/11, seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: seventhray1 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 18, 2011, 1:06 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, maskedzebra no_reply@... wrote: It is just a tragedy how many minds are being weakened and invaded by a spiritual context which does not bear a one to one relationship with reality. And then there are ones own experiences which may be apart from the association with any teacher or system of belief which correlate with the experiences that have been noted in different traditions, and by poets and philosophers as indicative of a diffferent, call it a more refined, style of functioning. And of course, that experience does not care if there is any verification of it, or if it gets some fancy name. And I don't really follow your initial premise that if this experience was real or a possibility then it would be confirmed by reality. Not getting that. Not sure where the rule book for reality is written, except by maybe the laws of physics.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Ravi very well put.My experience with Amma has been much more limited but like you while I have not felt ANY need to think of her as GOD I have been in awe of the love I have experienced in her presence and when I and my wife and daughter received her hug. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: Steve - regardless of how my messages come across, I am not reacting. I really don't care for praise or criticism, for me the content doesn't matter, the consciousness that the other and I bring to it. Though my messages definitely reflect my samskaras and vasanas (mental tendencies and inclination), i.e. they are harsh, they have no bearing on my consciousness. I'm not a diplomat nor I am a politician, I'm not here to please anyone or make fans. In fact I'm in no hurry to respond to anything. Similar to Rick I thought Denise's message was sincere and honest and since Rick did a really good job responding to her I didn't really feel like adding anything much even though I spent quite a bit of time of contemplating how I could answer her best. Since you have put me on the spot :-), I will add in my 2 cents. Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that I have articulated in the above paragraphs. Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment. My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others are as well. The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need to even go back to her again. The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign. I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well. But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel, intuit, don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry. Then go back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you, this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma. Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around Amma, that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma - nothing could be farther from truth. In fact I don't follow the party line at all, I don't consider Amma as a God or Devi or some incarnation - in fact I don't consider anything outside of me. I was not interested in chanting, mantras or rituals, in fact, though born as a Hindu, I considered myself more as an atheist growing up. But Amma supported me in my journey, in my ability to be an individual, to follow my own inner path to the divine. It never meant giving up my ideas, opinions and intellect, in fact my intellect has never been sharper, my heart has never been more loving. In fact that's what the Guru is - he or she really makes you an individual, lets you establish your own personal intimate connection with the divine, the divine that springs forth from your inner silence. The Guru really shows that everything is inside of us by being a perfect mirror allowing ourselves to acknowledge and deal with all the pain, negative tendencies that is
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans dmevans365@... wrote: This is very thoughtful. Â I think I was disappointed in that I had expectations of feeling some kind of overwhelming love and compassion as she is the saint supposedly dispensing this and no, it was not outwardly apparent. Â I did receive a mantra to pray to the divine mother and was put off by the instruction to chant it all the time with blind faith. The mantra itself is also an outer construct in the way I choose to interpret it. Â Thanks Denise. I have found that the love and compassion can only be felt inside of us, it's very natural when we first come to spirituality to externalize these values on to the other. There are a lot who project these values on to the other, though it's very helpful for some who need this acknowledgement the circle isn't complete until we feel it in ourselves. I am not an expert on mantra, I got one from Amma in 1995 and but soon stopped chanting it because it was not my path, however there should be plenty of material on mantras online. Like you say mantra is just a tool, a bridge to the divine. The hours of meditation and energy experienced were powerful and yes, leaving the outer religious construct behind and my overactive brain with it, in the end, I am left with an experience that has spurred a lot of thought internally and a desire to be a more conscious and compassionate person, letting go of so many patterns that are no longer working for me as a human in the last third of her life on this planet. Â That's good to know. I guess this is all that matters, that you are aware of the need for a deeper connection and have started the journey. --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: From: Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 6:40 PM Â Denise - and as they say you have to pass though hell to get to heaven, so nothing is going to change around Amma because it's a perfect contrast, a metaphor or pun of the play of the opposites, the play of the outer and the inner. There's many who are stuck in the outer, spend their entire lives analyzing and discussing it, some completely close it and project happiness, joy and wonder. The doors of bliss are not opened until you open the door to misery, the Self is not revealed unless you acknowledge the shadow, good luck in your spiritual journey. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that I have articulated in the above paragraphs. Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment. My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others are as well. The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need to even go back to her again. The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign. I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well. But you should go back and check her out again
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartaxius@... wrote: I too thought Ravi's response was thoughtful, and good advice. Spiritual movements, any movement really, channels experience in certain directions. Not all of this directiveness is conscious, but it functions like brainwashing. Having the ability to navigate these impulses that can wall us in takes a certain maturity, which Ravi expresses in his post, but if one is a novice in this business, one can be trapped. In the TM movement there is the talk of 'self-sufficiency', yet one meets so many there that seem to have none whatsoever. So having a healthy dose of caution is a really good thing to have. In some cases it might slow down progress if one is over critical, but if you are not critical enough, you can get lost. Take a break, research, read things from various traditions, and locate experiences of people in these traditions on the Internet if you can find them, if that is of interest to you, and see if you find something that resonates with you without sending up red flags that feel excessively uncomfortable. But avoiding discomfort entirely in a spiritual setting gets one nowhere. What one needs to learn to distinguish is whether the discomfort is a danger from without as opposed to some kind of purification from inside one's own mind. Thanks Xeno - this is beautifully put - avoiding discomfort entirely in a spiritual setting gets one nowhere. Also with respect to your comment Having the ability to navigate these impulses that can wall us in takes a certain maturity - maturity is indeed the part of the process and cannot really be a requirement, very few have it, I certainly didn't when I met her. So most of the times it's like a love affair with the master, it was and is one for me, we stick in-spite of all the outer distractions.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Thanks for your comments Kevin !! You have put it aptly - you experienced the love in you. A Satguru just acts as the perfect mirror reflecting the divine, the love in us. In India Guru is equated with God, as in symbolic of God. Many who meet Amma fall in love with her, her love, compassion, unconditional acceptance and then in their exuberance would love to worship her. Not that she asks for it, they would love to copy her, but slowly with maturity it should dawn upon us that this love is not outside of us, that it is intrinsic to us, that existence doesn't create copycats. With awareness comes the knowledge that we are perfect as we are, that we are authentic, unique expressions of the divine. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shanti2218411 kc21d@... wrote: Ravi very well put.My experience with Amma has been much more limited but like you while I have not felt ANY need to think of her as GOD I have been in awe of the love I have experienced in her presence and when I and my wife and daughter received her hug. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@ wrote: Steve - regardless of how my messages come across, I am not reacting. I really don't care for praise or criticism, for me the content doesn't matter, the consciousness that the other and I bring to it. Though my messages definitely reflect my samskaras and vasanas (mental tendencies and inclination), i.e. they are harsh, they have no bearing on my consciousness. I'm not a diplomat nor I am a politician, I'm not here to please anyone or make fans. In fact I'm in no hurry to respond to anything. Similar to Rick I thought Denise's message was sincere and honest and since Rick did a really good job responding to her I didn't really feel like adding anything much even though I spent quite a bit of time of contemplating how I could answer her best. Since you have put me on the spot :-), I will add in my 2 cents. Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that I have articulated in the above paragraphs. Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment. My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others are as well. The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need to even go back to her again. The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign. I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well. But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel, intuit, don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry. Then go back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you, this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma. Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around Amma, that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma - nothing could be farther from truth. In fact I don't follow the party line at all, I don't consider Amma as a God or Devi or some incarnation
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Now *this* is the quality of call and response I miss on Fairfield Life. Rick had every opportunity to overreact to this post, and to get all defensive or even abrasive in his response. And yet that didn't happen. The fact that it didn't speaks IMO to the concept of spiritual maturity on both sides of the conversation. Would that this level of exchange were more common. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: Canât argue with you. your perspective is well-thought-out and well-written. Mine is that I know folks who see Amma or even live in her ashram who span a wide range of personal and spiritual maturity. Some are quite cultish in their thinking and behavior, some quite independent. On the whole though, Iâve always been impressed with the caliber and âvibeâ of the people around Amma. Maharishi used to say that you can tell the quality of a teacher by the quality of his/her followers, and from my perspective, Ammaâs followers are evidence of a benign teacher. The young people who have been hanging with her seem to be turning out very well â bright, sincere, drug-free, and Amma steers them into higher education. I doubt that there is a spiritual movement on earth that doesnât have its disgruntled deserters. I agree with your comment about Sai Baba. I donât know whether or why Amma said what she is reported to have said about him, but if she did, IMO she was wrong. But thatâs just my opinion. YMMV. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:13 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma I respect the idea of taking what works for you and leaving the rest. That can work if one, as an adult, doesn't give up one's ability to assess critically by embracing blind faith. For me, however, while I enjoyed the food, music, service, meditation, group faith and even the opportunity to purchase/shop for CD's and books, the bottom line is that if one delves a bit deeper into the message, the more subtle aspects of it push/encourage/reinforce on a constant basis the concept that Amma is the one to be prayed to and that she is divine and an incarnation of God. This wouldn't have been evident unless if we hadn't embraced the three-day retreat/immersion. While this may be what a saint is, it is also a danger if one truly gives up a potential personal and direct connection to the Universal consciousness that we all can have as souls and turning over one's life and independent thought process and questioning nature to another human (I still see her as human, despite her ability to manipulate energy or alleged all-knowing, psychic skills). Not everyone does this, but the devotees who do may spend years of their life and their money in this effort and get in so deep that they lose themselves and their families in the process. I think the concepts of disappointment, let down, or betrayal do not go far enough to explain the spiritual crisis that occurs when the discrepancies between the ideals/big picture teachings and the actual behavior of the saint or organization bear witness to the fact that this is not God, but in fact a human construct with agendas reflecting ego and control and acquisition of wealth and corporate-like growth. One must be careful in deciding to follow a human professing to be realized. Note that Sai Baba was found to be a pedophile before he died - Amma also acknowledged him as a great saint at one time - whoops - not in my realm of existence, not ever - this was not an all-knowing statement. My daughter has learning disabilities that inhibit critical thought; while I think meditation would be great for her, she learned in her youth class to meditate to Amma - this amounts to pressuring impressionable minds at a young age. The same was reinforced in my class (although there was brief lip service to the idea that we could pray to whoever our God was) I think this one aspect corrupted the value of the meditation unfortunately. I asked to join the examma group to try and educate myself from those who had a perspective or experience informed by years of following. I simply could not find a balanced perspective on the internet. These accounts can be found and they are interesting to say the least - all is not always as it appears on the outside. The site is moderated heavily as it is supposed to a safe place for ex-devotees to share their story with some privacy - there is fear, in some cases about repercussions and/or attack from current devotees and the organization - which some have experienced. Overall, while I do not qualify as an ex-devotee, I was desperate to understand more and appreciate the opportunity to have reviewed the first-account postings which, admittedly, have to be sorted out from all of the other posts. The site has evolved over time as all sites do. The ammachi_free_zone site
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: P.S. I find it hard to accept accusations of Amma serving her ego or being in it for the money. For decades now, sheâs been on a routine that would kill most people in a month. What she does is grueling, and she suffers a lot of physical pain. Her humanitarian projects are substantial, despite the efforts of ex-Amma people to discredit them: http://www.amma.org/humanitarian-activities/index.html. Thatâs where the money goes. When sheâs not travelling, her room in her ashram is small and plain. In the US, she doesnât fly from place to place. She travels in the back of a mid-sized RV, purchased and driven by a friend of mine. Correct. Amma is Mother Divine in human form, an incarnatiion of Her. Amma is unblemished and the giver of Divine boons !
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: P.S. I find it hard to accept accusations of Amma serving her ego or being in it for the money. For decades now, sheâs been on a routine that would kill most people in a month. What she does is grueling, and she suffers a lot of physical pain. Her humanitarian projects are substantial, despite the efforts of ex-Amma people to discredit them: http://www.amma.org/humanitarian-activities/index.html. Thatâs where the money goes. When sheâs not travelling, her room in her ashram is small and plain. In the US, she doesnât fly from place to place. She travels in the back of a mid-sized RV, purchased and driven by a friend of mine. Correct. Amma is Mother Divine in human form, an incarnatiion of Her. Amma is unblemished and the giver of Divine boons ! Those close to Maharishi will be the first to notice the blessings of Her. http://www.nrk.no/hurtigruten/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: P.S. I find it hard to accept accusations of Amma serving her ego or being in it for the money. For decades now, sheâs been on a routine that would kill most people in a month. What she does is grueling, and she suffers a lot of physical pain. Her humanitarian projects are substantial, despite the efforts of ex-Amma people to discredit them: http://www.amma.org/humanitarian-activities/index.html. Thatâs where the money goes. When sheâs not travelling, her room in her ashram is small and plain. In the US, she doesnât fly from place to place. She travels in the back of a mid-sized RV, purchased and driven by a friend of mine. Correct. Amma is Mother Divine in human form, an incarnatiion of Her. Amma is unblemished and the giver of Divine boons ! Those close to Maharishi will be the first to notice the blessings of Her. http://www.nrk.no/hurtigruten/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Now *this* is the quality of call and response I miss on Fairfield Life. Rick had every opportunity to overreact to this post, and to get all defensive or even abrasive in his response. But Rick never does. It's other parties that do this. And yet that didn't happen. The fact that it didn't speaks IMO to the concept of spiritual maturity on both sides of the conversation. Would that this level of exchange were more common. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Canât argue with you. your perspective is well-thought-out and well-written. Mine is that I know folks who see Amma or even live in her ashram who span a wide range of personal and spiritual maturity. Some are quite cultish in their thinking and behavior, some quite independent. On the whole though, Iâve always been impressed with the caliber and âvibeâ of the people around Amma. Maharishi used to say that you can tell the quality of a teacher by the quality of his/her followers, and from my perspective, Ammaâs followers are evidence of a benign teacher. The young people who have been hanging with her seem to be turning out very well â bright, sincere, drug-free, and Amma steers them into higher education. I doubt that there is a spiritual movement on earth that doesnât have its disgruntled deserters. I agree with your comment about Sai Baba. I donât know whether or why Amma said what she is reported to have said about him, but if she did, IMO she was wrong. But thatâs just my opinion. YMMV. From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:13 PM To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma I respect the idea of taking what works for you and leaving the rest. That can work if one, as an adult, doesn't give up one's ability to assess critically by embracing blind faith. For me, however, while I enjoyed the food, music, service, meditation, group faith and even the opportunity to purchase/shop for CD's and books, the bottom line is that if one delves a bit deeper into the message, the more subtle aspects of it push/encourage/reinforce on a constant basis the concept that Amma is the one to be prayed to and that she is divine and an incarnation of God. This wouldn't have been evident unless if we hadn't embraced the three-day retreat/immersion. While this may be what a saint is, it is also a danger if one truly gives up a potential personal and direct connection to the Universal consciousness that we all can have as souls and turning over one's life and independent thought process and questioning nature to another human (I still see her as human, despite her ability to manipulate energy or alleged all-knowing, psychic skills). Not everyone does this, but the devotees who do may spend years of their life and their money in this effort and get in so deep that they lose themselves and their families in the process. I think the concepts of disappointment, let down, or betrayal do not go far enough to explain the spiritual crisis that occurs when the discrepancies between the ideals/big picture teachings and the actual behavior of the saint or organization bear witness to the fact that this is not God, but in fact a human construct with agendas reflecting ego and control and acquisition of wealth and corporate-like growth. One must be careful in deciding to follow a human professing to be realized. Note that Sai Baba was found to be a pedophile before he died - Amma also acknowledged him as a great saint at one time - whoops - not in my realm of existence, not ever - this was not an all-knowing statement. My daughter has learning disabilities that inhibit critical thought; while I think meditation would be great for her, she learned in her youth class to meditate to Amma - this amounts to pressuring impressionable minds at a young age. The same was reinforced in my class (although there was brief lip service to the idea that we could pray to whoever our God was) I think this one aspect corrupted the value of the meditation unfortunately. I asked to join the examma group to try and educate myself from those who had a perspective or experience informed by years of following. I simply could not find a balanced perspective on the internet. These accounts can be found and they are interesting to say the least - all is not always as it appears on the outside. The site is moderated heavily as it is supposed to a safe place for ex-devotees to share their story with some privacy - there is fear, in some cases about repercussions and/or attack from current devotees and the organization - which some have experienced. Overall, while I do not qualify as an ex-devotee, I was desperate to understand more and appreciate
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Steve - regardless of how my messages come across, I am not reacting. I really don't care for praise or criticism, for me the content doesn't matter, the consciousness that the other and I bring to it. Though my messages definitely reflect my samskaras and vasanas (mental tendencies and inclination), i.e. they are harsh, they have no bearing on my consciousness. I'm not a diplomat nor I am a politician, I'm not here to please anyone or make fans. In fact I'm in no hurry to respond to anything. Similar to Rick I thought Denise's message was sincere and honest and since Rick did a really good job responding to her I didn't really feel like adding anything much even though I spent quite a bit of time of contemplating how I could answer her best. Since you have put me on the spot :-), I will add in my 2 cents. Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that I have articulated in the above paragraphs. Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment. My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others are as well. The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need to even go back to her again. The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign. I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well. But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel, intuit, don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry. Then go back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you, this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma. Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around Amma, that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma - nothing could be farther from truth. In fact I don't follow the party line at all, I don't consider Amma as a God or Devi or some incarnation - in fact I don't consider anything outside of me. I was not interested in chanting, mantras or rituals, in fact, though born as a Hindu, I considered myself more as an atheist growing up. But Amma supported me in my journey, in my ability to be an individual, to follow my own inner path to the divine. It never meant giving up my ideas, opinions and intellect, in fact my intellect has never been sharper, my heart has never been more loving. In fact that's what the Guru is - he or she really makes you an individual, lets you establish your own personal intimate connection with the divine, the divine that springs forth from your inner silence. The Guru really shows that everything is inside of us by being a perfect mirror allowing ourselves to acknowledge and deal with all the pain, negative tendencies that is blocking us from feeling the love inside of us. And as Rick said just watching her sit and hug for 12 hours like I did earlier this week in LA was awe-inspiring in itself, not to mention the sheer variety of the various charitable projects - hers is a corporation, a corporation of love, it is capitalist, the capital, the amazing transformation that she brings about. Love - Ravi. --- In
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Denise - and as they say you have to pass though hell to get to heaven, so nothing is going to change around Amma because it's a perfect contrast, a metaphor or pun of the play of the opposites, the play of the outer and the inner. There's many who are stuck in the outer, spend their entire lives analyzing and discussing it, some completely close it and project happiness, joy and wonder. The doors of bliss are not opened until you open the door to misery, the Self is not revealed unless you acknowledge the shadow, good luck in your spiritual journey. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Yogi raviyogi@... wrote: Denise, I'm not sure what your exposure to Eastern spirituality is but I will comment on the outer paraphernalia that you witnessed around Amma. Its very symbolic, the temples in India have a lot of activity and buzz around them, the temple is decorated with pornographic images and demons representing the various desires and negative tendencies; but once you get inside the temple it is just dark and silent - which is in perfect contrast to the outer chaos. Similar is the situation around Amma, there's lot of buzz, activity, drama around Amma and then there is the silence, the pure awareness that is the Satguru like Amma - providing a perfect contrast between the outer and inner. So I have over the years seen lots of craziness around her - power, control, ego, jealousy - it definitely mirrors the outer world - however there is that amazing contrast of inner silence that grows around you. Then you realize slowly that it was never about the outer, that outer will always be outer but the inner is the one that changes, that you are rooted in your inner silence while being surrounded by dazzling dizzying outer. I had similar feelings when I met Amma in '95 in Rhode Island, the situation around was just too crazy for me, a bunch of weird white people dressed in white chanting Hindu mantras and bhajans. But somehow I kept coming back, it was because of her love and my ability to as I say, cut through crap or the outer, intuition as some may call it - that I have articulated in the above paragraphs. Someone also seemed to have perfectly setup you up for disappointment. My inner journey with Amma has been long and arduous. Most of the others are as well. The mind is always in a hurry to accept or reject which clearly comes out in your story - you accepted and then rejected - there was no middle. It's natural mind always seeks the extremes whereas with the heart it's not the case. There's no hurry, the fact that you could come back home, destroy all the material and post it to this website shows there's nothing to worry about, there's no mind control, there's no need to even go back to her again. The energy, the emotional upheaval that you felt is also a common sign. I felt is as well, it is the gross energy trying to process the subtle energy - like you it was very uncomfortable for me as well. But you should go back and check her out again and watch, feel, intuit, don't let your mind rush to accept or reject - there's no hurry. Then go back home and then you can pick and choose what feels right for you, this is a slow process since what you is think right for you changes with time, it certainly has for me for the last 16 years with Amma. Also it's easy to get deceived that there's a party line around Amma, that there's a set of rituals, ten commandments associated with Amma - nothing could be farther from truth. In fact I don't follow the party line at all, I don't consider Amma as a God or Devi or some incarnation - in fact I don't consider anything outside of me. I was not interested in chanting, mantras or rituals, in fact, though born as a Hindu, I considered myself more as an atheist growing up. But Amma supported me in my journey, in my ability to be an individual, to follow my own inner path to the divine. It never meant giving up my ideas, opinions and intellect, in fact my intellect has never been sharper, my heart has never been more loving. In fact that's what the Guru is - he or she really makes you an individual, lets you establish your own personal intimate connection with the divine, the divine that springs forth from your inner silence. The Guru really shows that everything is inside of us by being a perfect mirror allowing ourselves to acknowledge and deal with all the pain, negative tendencies that is blocking us from feeling the love inside of us. And as Rick said just watching her sit and hug for 12 hours like I did earlier this week in LA was awe-inspiring in itself, not to mention the sheer variety of the various charitable projects - hers is a corporation, a corporation of love, it is capitalist, the capital, the amazing transformation that she brings about. Love - Ravi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Now *this* is the quality of call and response I miss on Fairfield Life. Good, now you have an example of how to do it. Rick had every opportunity to overreact to this post, and to get all defensive or even abrasive in his response. Actually, most people will respond this way to a post that doesn't try to put them down. You should try it sometime. (Hint: The post I'm responding to isn't an example.) And yet that didn't happen. The fact that it didn't speaks IMO to the concept of spiritual maturity on both sides of the conversation. It speaks to the concept of respectful disagreement (and there wasn't even that much disagreement). Would that this level of exchange were more common. You could arrange for it to be significantly more common if you'd engage in it yourself.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
Ravi Guru will have a word with you. Please hold. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dmevans365 dmevans365@... wrote: I am writing this as an account of my and my children's participation in a recent Amma retreat. As background: I was laid off a stressful job in corporate america in January after many years in a deadline-driven career. We were invited by a friend to attend the retreat. I was curious and interested in meeting a saint who supposedly embodies the concepts of love and compassion. I have no background in the Hindu religion, Indian culture, or guru philosophy. I am not religious but believe in God, as the universe and nature, and our ability to access and receive personal guidance and help from the source energy. I believe that God is love. I attended with my heart wide open to possibilities and encouraged my kids to do the same. I attended the free program on Friday around 3 in the afternoon to introduce myself to the environment I had signed us up for the following 3 days. Loud Indian chant music was playing, many things were being sold, people were standing in line, the energy in the room was apparent. I purchased white clothing and a book and a cute little tiny Amma doll for myself and the kids. I had little idea what to expect, having never attended anything quite like this, but stayed in place of non-judgement and was excited. Over the next three days, I followed the program plan schedule. Receiving a hug from Amma was not like any hug I've ever received in that we were all physically positioned, but it seemed understandable that with so many people, a procedure needed to be in place. (I asked many about this and heard that this is because of the time involved in darshan - many apparently get spaced out seeing her and need to be physically moved away and when hugging thousands, every second counts). I did not feel an intimacy or personal connection or feeling of love and compassion. Something was repeated in monotone in my ear that I didn't understand. Shortly after receiving our hugs, however, we were all completely wired. I told the kids I felt like I had received an energy transfer or hit during the exchange. It didn't feel bad, but not good either, and we could sense that Amma seemed to be a powerful person energetically. Saturday morning we were up early for breakfast and to stand in line. One of my daughters and I were signed up to attend the IAM meditation courses - hers being the youth one - and so wanted to get our hugs in early. We were in line starting at 8 AM, listened to the Swami from 9 to 10, sat and waited for Amma to arrive at 10 AM, and then waited and moved up through the heavily orchestrated and controlled process. This time we went individually and brought our questions that we kept in our minds, as Amma could supposedly intuit and respond. Again, a manhandled hug routine (hands placed particularly, head pushed forward on chest, with a monotone repetition of a word in the right ear). I attended the IAM meditation course and enjoyed it, but was put off by the requirement to sign a confidentiality agreement. It was at this point I began to feel like I was being encouraged to pray to Amma - based on the Swami lectures, instruction and visualization received during the meditation. Amma was continually reinforced as the form to keep in our minds. We continued through the weekend - were full of so much energy Sunday evening that we worked out between 10-11 PM. We did our Seva at dinner by helping load dishes into the cart, which was fun. We participated in standing in line for hours and receiving hugs in the morning and evening, wanting to follow the scripted schedule and also waiting to feel this overwhelming love connection that so many talked about. We received blessed candy and got the dolls blessed. Monday I was up at 6:15 to do the yoga class. Monday evening was Dhevi Bhava - lots of ceremony and long, translated talk that was starting to feel very top down and condescending. Blessed water, chanting to music, change in Amma's costume to the crown and gown, and the hugs began with the loud bhajans (music) sung by a swami and group in the background. The music/chanting was very loud, repetitive, and mesmerizing; the Swami's voice was very hypnotic; the Swami lectures were full of what seemed like very conflicting messages which confused me on several levels (is the underlying message that we should all pray to Amma as God?), and I was feeling like I was on some kind of wierd emotional and energetic high. I decided also that I wanted a mantra to aid me on my path of forgiveness. So I said the word mantra at the last hug as instructed. I knew nothing of mantras or initiation and clearly misunderstood what they are. I read the sheet passed around. I was shepherded into a circle with others and asked for my definition of God - I stated the Universe. I was told that a mantra did not address any aspects of God, such as forgiveness, but that this would
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NUXrpV4Ao68/TLZm2D22PVI/AFA/pbLjLDm-s_o/s1600/blue-e-meter.jpg (might work) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@... wrote: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NUXrpV4Ao68/TLZm2D22PVI/AFA/pbLjLDm-s_\ o/s1600/blue-e-meter.jpg (might work) might work? might work? you're posting state of the art gear. This is is LRH tech that is as cutting edge as the day it was invented. might work, bah! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Visit with Amma
My auditing sessions at the LA Center long ago ended in disaster. Forgot what they call it, but if the person's being audited have an intense reaction to some of the questions, the e-meter basically goes haywire and the auditor(s) have to record it as such, with very negative consequences to them - the auditors, for letting it happen. I just left and never returned. http://www.scientology.cc/en_US/about/presentation/auditing.html --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Yifu yifuxero@ wrote: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NUXrpV4Ao68/TLZm2D22PVI/AFA/pbLjLDm-s_\ o/s1600/blue-e-meter.jpg (might work) might work? might work? you're posting state of the art gear. This is is LRH tech that is as cutting edge as the day it was invented. might work, bah! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 steve.sundur@ wrote: I gotta say, I think I'd rather be the last person to get a sip of blood of Christ Communion cup than to bury my nose into that same square of silk that a thousand people before me have just buried their nose and mouth. What is it we say? Oh yea, YMMV. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer rick@ wrote: Interesting, honest account. I've been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I can't dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a take what you need and leave the rest attitude. I believe that energy you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering one's spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I don't pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So I'd take that group with a big grain of salt. I've seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So I'd think twice about blocking your daughter's further participation.
