[FairfieldLife] was [Re: HA HA - A name and form joke] Pyramid souls
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wouldn't the momentum of the gunas carry the 'freed' soul essence after Brahman is achieved, almost effortlessly into progressively more expanded states, creating a powerful and inevitable dissolution of the strong force, and hence sense of self? Well, it's a funny thing -- identity with a separate self is in a very real sense dissolved at Brahman-Brahman-Brahman, when one realizes one has always been nobody, and there has always been nothing to do amidst the ocean of perfection Now, and it is at least possible to die at this point and not return to Earth or Earth-like planes (as in the model one has reached Maharloka). Yes, we have flipped, out so to speak (*lol*) As you and I are aware, the Work has now ended, but the Work also actually *begins* at that point, wherein spacetime reverses and one begins as Spirit to re-enter Matter as a sort of avatar, to eat or assimilate the entirety of one's past. One's perfection and Wholeness-Self has blind-spots to meet and greet. Yes, very definitely. And the Work appears to move much faster at this point, because we are no longer Working within the constructs of Maya. In a sense, one has yet to fully fuse God and Goddess, one's male and female sides, or to expand Wholeness beyond one's midsection (Maharloka) to embrace and assimilate one's whole bodymind...and beyond. Well said. But many traditional models of Enlightenment end at Brahma-Brahma- Brahma or Nirvana, so it is not difficult to imagine some portions of the Whole deciding to rest on their laurels as it were :-) Yes, I do it myself, until like a pool of water overcoming its surface tension, assimilation continues unabated. Granted the model accounts for such a state as the 'pyramid people', but in Reality, how long could such a state be sustained? How long ceases to have much meaning after Brahma-Brahma-Brahma, doesn't it? I suspect Bentov is speaking of entities like the Watchers or the Theosophical Society's Dhyan Chohans, or the Discarnate Gods -- actually, filtering divine bliss through one's system into the denser planes is a legitimate function; one is serving as a sort of transformer or elevator attendant. Now, *that* makes sense. Otherwise I was stuck in the consideration of such souls not meeting the minimum standards of the Universal cost/benefit model. Seen another way, it seemed at first such beings would be bliss-channeling 'idiot savants' of a sort. Hence my earlier remarks about such beings being not quite human. If this is indeed Janaloka, one or more of these entities might eventually decide to return as a Teacher to the denser planes, and in the process learn something more about themselves and the ever- unfolding mystery of the human and the divine, and of the male and female, and of duality in general :-) That too makes sense, and brings to mind the thought I used to have whereby all I wanted to do was evolve to the point where I didn't ever have to return *here* ever again! (*lol*) Not only does that now make no sense for obvious reasons, I appreciate this Earth plane very very much more than ever. And I'll leave it at that for now. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] was [Re: HA HA - A name and form joke] Pyramid souls
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 27, 2005, at 5:28 AM, Irmeli Mattsson wrote: Can anyone with a human body be really like that? Of course. For some people spirituality is a refined form of narcissism. That's why it's always important to know your deepest intent--and to check that intent--when undergoing practice. Different people have different intents for practice. Some may desire material wealth. Some may have been lead to believe a bliss state in some lotus-land is what they need. Yet others may generate the idea of enlightenment for everyone. These beings in the City of the Pyramids are no longer in physical bodies. Most were too interested in bliss or siddhis. And thus the danger of incorrect View. These 'pyramid people' present an interesting challenge to our attachments and boundaries. If we look within ourselves, particularly in waking state, who of us would not want to cease struggling, cease dealing with problems, and live in deep complete bliss fulfillment? It is a paradox- if we are OK with our daily problems and struggles, then we cannot be said to be suffering. On the other hand, if we wish to be free of them, what is wrong with an eternity in bliss? And this is not a partial bliss, it is the satisfaction of every deepest desire we have known, beyond the emotions of feeling really, really good, beyond any transient desire we can imagine. What is wrong with that? Is it again a case for us of not wanting to be here now, yet not wanting to have our problems solved either? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] was [Re: HA HA - A name and form joke] Pyramid souls
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These 'pyramid people' present an interesting challenge to our attachments and boundaries. If we look within ourselves, particularly in waking state, who of us would not want to cease struggling, cease dealing with problems, and live in deep complete bliss fulfillment? It is a paradox- if we are OK with our daily problems and struggles, then we cannot be said to be suffering. On the other hand, if we wish to be free of them, what is wrong with an eternity in bliss? And this is not a partial bliss, it is the satisfaction of every deepest desire we have known, beyond the emotions of feeling really, really good, beyond any transient desire we can imagine. What is wrong with that? Is it again a case for us of not wanting to be here now, yet not wanting to have our problems solved either? It would *appear* the Pyramid People represent a crystallized understanding that is less than full or whole, as their sense of self seems not to encompass the awareness of self-as-everyone, or everyone-in-self -- so that they are not availing themselves of the dynamic joy of growing with others as ever more ignorance is dissolved into one's bliss. In other words, by artificially or prematurely limiting their sense of self, they are actually depriving themselves of deeper and deeper understandings and identifications with other aspects of god and human and what it means to be both of these simultaneously ... of course, this whole thing is but another story... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] was [Re: HA HA - A name and form joke] Pyramid souls
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: These 'pyramid people' present an interesting challenge to our attachments and boundaries. If we look within ourselves, particularly in waking state, who of us would not want to cease struggling, cease dealing with problems, and live in deep complete bliss fulfillment? It is a paradox- if we are OK with our daily problems and struggles, then we cannot be said to be suffering. On the other hand, if we wish to be free of them, what is wrong with an eternity in bliss? And this is not a partial bliss, it is the satisfaction of every deepest desire we have known, beyond the emotions of feeling really, really good, beyond any transient desire we can imagine. What is wrong with that? Is it again a case for us of not wanting to be here now, yet not wanting to have our problems solved either? It would *appear* the Pyramid People represent a crystallized understanding that is less than full or whole, as their sense of self seems not to encompass the awareness of self-as-everyone, or everyone-in-self -- so that they are not availing themselves of the dynamic joy of growing with others as ever more ignorance is dissolved into one's bliss. In other words, by artificially or prematurely limiting their sense of self, they are actually depriving themselves of deeper and deeper understandings and identifications with other aspects of god and human and what it means to be both of these simultaneously ... of course, this whole thing is but another story... :-) Yes, my take on this also. However, I believe the clue in all of this to be Vaj's statement that the 'pyramid people' are seen when one *begins* to transcend duality. And that some would seek enlightenment as a further narcissistic tendency. This seems to me to be antithetical, even impossible, with regard to progress towards enlightenment, and full permutation of bliss consciousness. I don't understand how, on the one hand, we can grow significantly towards a pure nervous system and at the same time maintain the sense of self as isolated. The sense of self as isolated is at odds with a pure nervous system. It all seems very ignorant, almost sub- human. Or sub-Godhead anyway, which is really the same thing... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] was [Re: HA HA - A name and form joke] Pyramid souls
On Oct 27, 2005, at 8:50 PM, jim_flanegin wrote: Yes, my take on this also. However, I believe the clue in all of this to be Vaj's statement that the 'pyramid people' are seen when one *begins* to transcend duality. And that some would seek enlightenment as a further narcissistic tendency. This seems to me to be antithetical, even impossible, with regard to progress towards enlightenment, and full permutation of bliss consciousness. Actually in western terms, one *has* crossed the abyss *beyond* duality...and there one meets the inhabitants of those who have just passed beyond. Some are resting, some are stuck. It's just that the level of integration is still very nascent...or he aim was entirely wrong. I don't understand how, on the one hand, we can grow significantly towards a pure nervous system and at the same time maintain the sense of self as isolated. The sense of self as isolated is at odds with a pure nervous system. It all seems very ignorant, almost sub- human. Or sub-Godhead anyway, which is really the same thing... I like Bentov's description of entering this plane. He first encounters a naga--a divine serpent--who blocks his path. Eventually he convinces the naga to open his mouth by flattering him. When he does, he jumps through his mouth and enters this nirvanic plane through the nagas digestive tract... He describes the plane quite clearly: It's difficult to describe the good vibes and the all-pervading light. As you move along, you find high thronelike structures, all luminous, with people sitting cross-legged on them, meditating. Some angels are hanging over them, apparently for decoration. Bliss pervades everything. The people are totally unaware of what is happening around them, for they are immersed in their meditation, experiencing constant and intense bliss. Upon closer examination, you find that this state of bliss is caused by pure consciousness-the void flowing through their bodies. It enters their heads and flows down and out the bottoms of their spines. From there it flows into the Manifest Creation, which is located below them. You are able to examine the heads of these people, and find, to your surprise, that they contain no thoughts. The thinking process would interfere with and alter the flow of pure consciousness. These beings are drawing the flow of consciousness through them, but are not affecting it in any way. (...) Nirvana, as you know, he [Naga] says, is really a blind alley of evolution. People are interested solely in their own bliss, and they don't care about others. That's why I'm supposed to scare them away from here. But if they decide to come in anyway, in spite of my warnings, it's their right. They worked for it and are entitled to their bliss. However, they will not evolve beyond this. (...) You notice that the people in Nirvana are practically all easterners. Yes, says Naga, the West has not discovered it yet. And besides, westerners seem more active and tend not to come here. You find that by whispering sweet little things into Naga's ear, and especially by scratching him behind his ear, you can make him quite talkative and downright humorous. He has a good, dry humor. Traffic has been very slow here in the last few millennia, and it's getting worse. Nowadays people care more for each other, and wanting to help the evolution of their fellow men, they bypass Nirvana. We are considering closing down the place or operating with only a skeleton crew, Naga points at his protruding ribs with a sigh. Bentov's two solitary works are the best the TM movement has ever produced. Read them and move on. He certainly did. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] was [Re: HA HA - A name and form joke] Pyramid souls
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, my take on this also. However, I believe the clue in all of this to be Vaj's statement that the 'pyramid people' are seen when one *begins* to transcend duality. And that some would seek enlightenment as a further narcissistic tendency. This seems to me to be antithetical, even impossible, with regard to progress towards enlightenment, and full permutation of bliss consciousness. I don't understand how, on the one hand, we can grow significantly towards a pure nervous system and at the same time maintain the sense of self as isolated. The sense of self as isolated is at odds with a pure nervous system. It all seems very ignorant, almost sub- human. Or sub-Godhead anyway, which is really the same thing... Well FWIW the 27-state model shows several possibilities for this occuring -- the simplest might be if after Brahma-Brahma-Brahma (Crucifixion or Brahman or Nirvana) one progresses only as far as Brahma-Shiva-Shiva, at the subtlest end of Brahma's egg -- here one would still be identifying with subtlest light, and even pretty strong secondary bliss channeling down from Shiva's realm through oneself and into manifest creation -- this might be seen as the lower end of Janaloka. However, if the model is right, one could even ascend into the first third of Shiva's realm (Shiva-Vishnu subsubgunas), embracing and dissolving the weak force (and thus knowing physical immortality) but not yet truly embracing and dissolving the strong force (sense of separate self) until the middle third of the realm (Shiva-Brahma subsubgunas)... :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] was [Re: HA HA - A name and form joke] Pyramid souls
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, my take on this also. However, I believe the clue in all of this to be Vaj's statement that the 'pyramid people' are seen when one *begins* to transcend duality. And that some would seek enlightenment as a further narcissistic tendency. This seems to me to be antithetical, even impossible, with regard to progress towards enlightenment, and full permutation of bliss consciousness. I don't understand how, on the one hand, we can grow significantly towards a pure nervous system and at the same time maintain the sense of self as isolated. The sense of self as isolated is at odds with a pure nervous system. It all seems very ignorant, almost sub- human. Or sub-Godhead anyway, which is really the same thing... Well FWIW the 27-state model shows several possibilities for this occuring -- the simplest might be if after Brahma-Brahma-Brahma (Crucifixion or Brahman or Nirvana) one progresses only as far as Brahma-Shiva-Shiva, at the subtlest end of Brahma's egg -- here one would still be identifying with subtlest light, and even pretty strong secondary bliss channeling down from Shiva's realm through oneself and into manifest creation -- this might be seen as the lower end of Janaloka. However, if the model is right, one could even ascend into the first third of Shiva's realm (Shiva-Vishnu subsubgunas), embracing and dissolving the weak force (and thus knowing physical immortality) but not yet truly embracing and dissolving the strong force (sense of separate self) until the middle third of the realm (Shiva-Brahma subsubgunas)... :-) I suppose so, however are the dynamics of the model that static? Wouldn't the momentum of the gunas carry the 'freed' soul essence after Brahman is achieved, almost effortlessly into progressively more expanded states, creating a powerful and inevitable dissolution of the strong force, and hence sense of self? Granted the model accounts for such a state as the 'pyramid people', but in Reality, how long could such a state be sustained? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/JjtolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
