RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Richard wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure.
RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Yes you are misleading folks. Even though Richie got many details wrong, or formulated them in a strange and freaky way, (he is actually funny), he's got many of the fundamentals absolutely right, while you seem to be in big denial there. Your arguments, quoting collected papers, do nothing to elucidate the origin of TM. That is, Richard, though not being accurate, actually provides facts and important clues, he provides INFORMATION, while you provide none of that. The other's here, who criticize him, do so, because he provides infos THEY already know - but which are not talked about officially. To say, for example that he doesn't provide any reliable information is just misdirection on your part. And can you tell me: why doesn't the oh so scholarly article of Domash, provide any of the fundamental informations, that we are talking about here? Didn't he know, or didn't he want to speak about this? Because to say that the mantras are common place in India is not really in the interest of the movement, right? Richard wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure.
RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Iranitea wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? (Yawn) But it's perfectly OK for Richard to accuse me of disputing facts and misleading folks when he knows I was doing no such thing. Right, iranitea? Yes you are misleading folks. Even though Richie got many details wrong, or formulated them in a strange and freaky way, (he is actually funny), he's got many of the fundamentals absolutely right, while you seem to be in big denial there. Oh, really? In denial of what? Be specific, please. Your arguments, quoting collected papers, do nothing to elucidate the origin of TM. That is, Richard, though not being accurate, actually provides facts and important clues, he provides INFORMATION, while you provide none of that. Nor, as you know, was that my intention. My intention was to provide the account Maharishi apparently (per Rick) approved. And there was no argument involved, as you know; I wasn't disputing anything, as I said. I haven't a clue whether Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect or not and couldn't care less. I wasn't responding to Richard's post, I was telling Seraphita about something I thought would interest her (and according to her, it did). Moreover, as you know, I was explicit that I was making no claims for the accuracy of Domash's account. I said, Whether it's 100 percent accurate is anyone's guess. Like Barry, you seem to have trouble distinguishing between Maharishi sez X and What Maharishi sez is true. The other's here, who criticize him, do so, because he provides infos THEY already know - but which are not talked about officially. Who criticizes Richard on that basis? To say, for example that he doesn't provide any reliable information is just misdirection on your part. As you know, that is not what I said. What I said was: I wouldn't take Richard's posts to confirm anything. A lot of what he posts here (as you know) is *deliberately misleading* or *outright false* (such as his accusations against me that you are making an ass of yourself trying to defend). He may post some good information here from time to time, but given his trollish and deceptive habits, I don't take his word for anything. And can you tell me: why doesn't the oh so scholarly article of Domash, provide any of the fundamental informations, that we are talking about here? Didn't he know, or didn't he want to speak about this? Because to say that the mantras are common place in India is not really in the interest of the movement, right? I'm flattered you think I'm capable of reading Domash's mind of 40-some years ago. But really, all I can do is speculate: He was writing primarily for scientists (the intended readership of the Collected Papers volumes), so he may not have thought lore about the history and provenance of mantras or other fundamental informations (hint: information is always singular in English) discussed here was really very pertinent in that context. That the mantras are common place in India isn't much of a revelation, nor does it make any difference to how they're used in TM. Just in general, the purpose of the essay was not to address every negative criticism that's ever been made about TM, especially criticisms of its marketing approach (which is where the mantras being common place in India would come in). I did make the point to Seraphita, as you know, that Domash didn't exactly make clear Guru Dev's role in the formulation and teaching of TM, and that it seemed likely to me that he didn't have a thing to do with either, contrary to the TM party line. Once again, iranitea, your compulsion to get me has blinded you to what I've actually said in my posts. Your rather desperate attempts to pour me into a True Believer mold just make you look foolish and weak.
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Any knowledge is a prison, not just TM knowledge. That's not just what Krishnamurti says, but Maharishi said this himself about the knowledge he was teaching. It's a conditioning of the mind. At my time, which was before the siddhis, there was much emphasis to get fertilizers asap. That's why you don't understand, how transcendence could get 'lively'. You do not need to understand the technicalities of Samput, but like for everything else, Maharishi had a substitute explanation for it, which was carefully explained at advanced meetings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
OK. You are obviously a lot smarter than I am. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Any knowledge is a prison, not just TM knowledge. That's not just what Krishnamurti says, but Maharishi said this himself about the knowledge he was teaching. It's a conditioning of the mind. At my time, which was before the siddhis, there was much emphasis to get fertilizers asap. That's why you don't understand, how transcendence could get 'lively'. You do not need to understand the technicalities of Samput, but like for everything else, Maharishi had a substitute explanation for it, which was carefully explained at advanced meetings. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
Like listening to the Vedic Hymns, this stuff gets me a little too high, if used regularly, so *thank you* for sharing it, but I will use it sparingly, like an encouragement, vs a program . :-) ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: A seed when sown grows into a fruitful tree, like that Beej Mantra is a fun of shakti. There are Various Beej Mantras which are an important part of Mantras and each Beej mantra has its own power and when mixed with mantras adds extra power to the traits of that mantra. According the mantras which contain up to nine words are termed Beej Mantra, ten or twenty words forms Mantra and beyond are known Maha Mantra. Broadly mantras are divided into three parts as Satwic, Rajsic, and Tamsic which respectively indicate Atma uplift, religious and material comforts and death, Uchatan, loss of enemies and opponents. SAMPUT : Samput are the specified words used in a mantra. These can be used in the beginning, middle or at the end of a mantra. The Samput has a great value in Mantra Shakti or in other Mantras and be used carefully. In English we can pronunciate the above samput like as : 1 Om aeeng Kaleeng soo. 2 Om shareeng Hareeng shareeng. 3 Om aeeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 4 Om Shareeng Hareeng Kaleeng. 5 Om Hareeng. 6 Om aeeing Hareeng Kaleeng. Mantras one should use in its daily life ( Beej Mantra ) Astroshastra provides you a few important Mantras, method of their recitation, use and other aspects. More of them STAND TESTED and are very useful for day to day life. These mantras have been selected from Puranas, Hindu religion and old texts. Other religious persons may follow their corresponding words. Which are equally applicable and can be recited beneficially. These basic Beej mantras are for every time use by the Sadhaka, which lead early to the siddhi of your mantra. 1 Om Namah Shivaye. 2 Om Namah Narayane Aye Namaha. 3 Om Namah Bhagwate Vasdevaye Namaha. 4 BismiIa-Rehman-ul-Ramheem. 5 Om bhur bhavsa soha tat savetur Vareneyam bargo devasyaha dhi mahi dayo yona parachodyat. On Wed, 10/9/13, doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... doctordumbass@... mailto:doctordumbass@... wrote: Subject: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MMY and Siddha Tradtions To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2013, 8:26 PM You have to be exceptionally resource challenged, these days, to consider the TM knowledge, a prison. Also, TM, imo, is not for people who want to over intellectualize everything. It either works, or it doesn't, and knowing what samput is, ultimately makes no difference, wrt its effectiveness. For one thing, these so-called Advanced Techniques are not a prerequisite for any other program, like the TMSP. Never saw the need for one, myself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Samput are the extra words added. For instance they may add extra bijas to Gayatri to make it more powerful. This, of course, is stuff that TM never students but information often explained in other traditions. Gotta step outside the prison to learn it. ;-) On 10/09/2013 12:29 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Aing is the bija. The advanced technique is a long form mantra with extra samput added. So 'samput' is like a kind of spiritual cheerleader squad, to give the bija team some extra ooomph? Gimme a Shri, gimme a Shri, gimme a Namah Namah Namah! Would we call them the Pushpam Girls? (initiator joke) :-) On 10/09/2013 10:16 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: that's an interesting theory - I'd like to see the bird that has a call of Shri Shri Aing Namah Namah!
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? Is there actually anyone here who actually cares? Actually, actually? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainly not TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
RE: RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: MMY and Siddha Tradtions
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: Judy: Shut up, Richard. I'm not disputing anything. She's just such a sweetie, isn't she? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com wrote: It sure is looking like the authfriend is disputing the fact that Swami Karpatri was a member of the Sri Vidya sect. Now, why would she do that and mislead us about the SBS affiliations with Sri Vidya? Obviously if Swami Karpatri was a Sri Vidya he learned it from his guru SKS. Go figure. He was also the great expert of Shree Vidya and probably all the present day experts in Varanasi have somehow or the other obtained Shree vidya from him or his pupils. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Karpatri Why would MMY tell a fib about his tradition's lineage? So many questions - so few answers. The question is: why do some TMers meditate on the bija of Saraswati if MMY didn't get the bja from SBS? Would MMY just make it up or read it in a book? Is it just a coincidence that the bija of Saraswati is included in the fifteen bijas mentioned in the Sound Arya Lahari by the Adi Shankara? There is one undisputed fact: all the Saraswati dasanami's meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati at least twice a day! Is there anyone here who would dispute this? On 10/7/2013 7:05 PM, s3raphita@... mailto:s3raphita@... wrote: Thanks for the link authfriend. I can see why MMY would approve that account! Richard's posts seem to confirm that Guru Dev most likely did have a Sri Yantra. I still think that the tale of Maharishi bumping off his master, stealing his jewelled Sri Yantra and then heading south to meet with Indian magicians who teach him how to unlock its secrets would make a great movie: Maharishi invokes asuras who promise him unlimited wealth and power - the CGI people are given free rein at this point. The asuras' acolyte (film-maker Kenneth Anger) is instructed to prepare the way amongst rock royalty like the Stones and the Beatles . . . and so it goes. Scorcese would lap this up. A while back I read Our Spiritual Heritage: An Informal History of the Masters of the Sankaracharya Tradition by Lynn Nappe (a former TM teacher) - the story of each of the masters of the Shankaracharya tradition. The entry for Guru Dev includes an overview of his meditation advice that is most certainly not TM. Lynne Nappe glosses this by saying Guru Dev's own technique was different but he wanted a simple variant suitable for the housekeeper. I guess we're all housekeepers . . . housewives or househusbands. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, noozguru@... mailto:noozguru@... wrote: On 10/07/2013 01:02 PM, Richard J. Williams wrote: So, where did the meditation of SBS come from? Meditation is a technique that is common all over India, especially in the sect of the Sri Vidya. In that tradition they meditate on the bija mantra of Saraswati. It's the same bija mantra given out in TM initiation. It's the same technique - it's a meditation using a bija mantra of Saraswati. Let's review what we know about SBS. Rajaram Mishra, later to become Swami Bramhananda Saraswati, was born on Thursday, 21 December, 1868 in village Gana, which is close to the city of Ayodhya, in North India. Rajaram was enrolled at the Sanskrit Institute at Kashi at the age of eight and later became a student of Swami Krishnananda Saraswati of Utter Kashi. http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/parampara.html Are we agreed so far? So, we can assume that the SBS learned meditation from SKS who was initiated by his guru. All the gurus in the Saraswati lineage meditate on the bija of Saraswati. Their headquarters is at Sringeri. According to the Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, the meditation technique used in TM originated with the Vedic sage Naryana. It's the same meditation that is used by all the Shankaracharyas in that lineage. So, the TM bija mantras came from SBS, who was a member of the dasanami order of the Saraswati dandi sannyasins, founded by the Adi Shankara. The bijas used in TM have been around for ages. And they didn't have to come from anyone. .
