Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch
On 03-07, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: $150.00 for life long care of a cat is not enough. The place I have chosen for my babies requests $400.00 per year per catX the number of years you expect the cat to live. This seams to be more in line consdering what I put out each year on my cats. This is what alerted me to the problems ahead for Caboodle. When searching for a sanctuary for my cats a couple of years ago, I checked with them and when they said only $150. per cat I questioned them about this not being enough, and they got very defensive. Some sanctuaries like Tabby's Place in NJ, charge $15,000, which is very high but more realistic, as vet bills over the years can easily cost that much. I think there must be some good sanctuaries somewhere in between these prices. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch
The few places I have checked require a $10,000 stipend PER cat and that is what I would expect with health issues as cats get older. Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 06:58:55 -0500 From: felineres...@frontier.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch On 03-07, dlg...@windstream.net wrote: $150.00 for life long care of a cat is not enough. The place I have chosen for my babies requests $400.00 per year per catX the number of years you expect the cat to live. This seams to be more in line consdering what I put out each year on my cats. This is what alerted me to the problems ahead for Caboodle. When searching for a sanctuary for my cats a couple of years ago, I checked with them and when they said only $150. per cat I questioned them about this not being enough, and they got very defensive. Some sanctuaries like Tabby's Place in NJ, charge $15,000, which is very high but more realistic, as vet bills over the years can easily cost that much. I think there must be some good sanctuaries somewhere in between these prices. Lorrie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I know others have also responded Natalie about TNR. TNR is one of the best ways of fighting the spread of FeLV. In my experience a positive momma will have positive kittens. Fix the momma and you stop the spread of the disease in a feral colony. I also do TNR and manage 2 feral colonies. The adult males and females are released back after recovery from their surgeries. Males 1 day and females 3-4 days as long as they are doing OK. The kittens I tame and try to adopt out. The only way to combat PETA is to responsibly manage these feral/hard stray colonies. My oldest feral is a 7+ year old male who is only happy outside in his colony. We can't take all these feral/hard strays in but we can give them a healthy, stress free life in their colonies once they have been spayed/neutered. At least that way the population is controlled. The real problem is feeders who do not TNR. That's how these feral/hard stray colonies get out of control. Managing these colonies means responsible s/n, feeding and medical treatment when needed. JMHO Sharyl From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
Believe me, I am 100% onboard with TNR, it’s just not for me. I have tried several times to set-up colonies in Greenwich, but could not get anyone to become responsible caretakers….TNR colonies require really dedicated and responsible people, not part-time do-gooders who have no idea how much work goes into caring for a colony to keep it healthy. And as I said before, I am totally against the immediate release after surgery (spay/neuter, especially in the winter))….but you would be surprised how many keep doing it with horrible results; their philosophy is that even though they lose a few, they’ve done their part! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:37 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know others have also responded Natalie about TNR. TNR is one of the best ways of fighting the spread of FeLV. In my experience a positive momma will have positive kittens. Fix the momma and you stop the spread of the disease in a feral colony. I also do TNR and manage 2 feral colonies. The adult males and females are released back after recovery from their surgeries. Males 1 day and females 3-4 days as long as they are doing OK. The kittens I tame and try to adopt out. The only way to combat PETA is to responsibly manage these feral/hard stray colonies. My oldest feral is a 7+ year old male who is only happy outside in his colony. We can't take all these feral/hard strays in but we can give them a healthy, stress free life in their colonies once they have been spayed/neutered. At least that way the population is controlled. The real problem is feeders who do not TNR. That's how these feral/hard stray colonies get out of control. Managing these colonies means responsible s/n, feeding and medical treatment when needed. JMHO Sharyl From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I lost two feral females three days after they were spayed. They were kept up, safe and cared for. They were fine when I checked them the night before. Two wonderful girls, unrelated, spayed at different times by different vets, seemingly very healthy. It is bad enough that they died. It would have been a lot worse had they died after being releasedat least from the point of other animals causing even more pain. Maybe the cats would not agree. I won't even bring a cat who has been spayed home for three days now. On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:58 AM, GRAS wrote: Believe me, I am 100% onboard with TNR, it’s just not for me. I have tried several times to set-up colonies in Greenwich, but could not get anyone to become responsible caretakers….TNR colonies require really dedicated and responsible people, not part-time do- gooders who have no idea how much work goes into caring for a colony to keep it healthy. And as I said before, I am totally against the immediate release after surgery (spay/neuter, especially in the winter))….but you would be surprised how many keep doing it with horrible results; their philosophy is that even though they lose a few, they’ve done their part! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org ] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 3:37 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know others have also responded Natalie about TNR. TNR is one of the best ways of fighting the spread of FeLV. In my experience a positive momma will have positive kittens. Fix the momma and you stop the spread of the disease in a feral colony. I also do TNR and manage 2 feral colonies. The adult males and females are released back after recovery from their surgeries. Males 1 day and females 3-4 days as long as they are doing OK. The kittens I tame and try to adopt out. The only way to combat PETA is to responsibly manage these feral/hard stray colonies. My oldest feral is a 7+ year old male who is only happy outside in his colony. We can't take all these feral/hard strays in but we can give them a healthy, stress free life in their colonies once they have been spayed/neutered. At least that way the population is controlled. The real problem is feeders who do not TNR. That's how these feral/ hard stray colonies get out of control. Managing these colonies means responsible s/n, feeding and medical treatment when needed. JMHO Sharyl From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I thought he did take in ferals at his ranch. Ones that were pulled from animal control or had to be relocated. Heard that years ago so I'm not sure. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 23:17:08 -0500 From: g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures.Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care!I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats!Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats.Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder.I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't.Martahttp://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
Wouldn't surprise me. Some of the AC's around here send animals to these places to keep their euthanasia rates down. Really sad. Animals would be better off being put down Maureen Olvey molvey...@hotmail.com wrote: I thought he did take in ferals at his ranch. Ones that were pulled from animal control or had to be relocated. Heard that years ago so I'm not sure. “I am not interested to know whether vivisection produces results that are profitable to the human race or doesn’t….the pain which it inflicts upon unconsenting animals is the basis of my enmity toward it, and it is to me sufficient justification of the enmity without looking further.” – Mark Twain Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 23:17:08 -0500 From: g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don’t like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures.Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care!I can’t even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats!Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats.Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder.I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't.Martahttp://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
Just info on the caboodle ranch issue: This place gets a lot of media attention and volunteers. Personally, while he's not perfect, he was not alone in this work, so it seems at least worth it to consider he got steamrolled. I've been reading about it and it really seems like it may have been part of an overall political move by PETA (who tends to kill animals, not save them - check their stats.) PETA apparently wants to stop the bill that will allow rescues to pull the animals slated to die from the county shelter and is using this issue as a platform. ASPCA was involved but I think PETA was pretty much running that show. And if there is one org I do NOT trust it is PETA. (So now you know where my bias is.) Anyway, If you're interested in reading more: http://blogs.catster.com/the-cats-meow-a-cat-and-kitten-blog/caboodle-ranch-the-other-side-of-the-story/2012/03/05/ http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03-02/story/embattled-caboodle-ranch-operator-says-confiscated-records-detail-his If you want to support the guy, there is a Caboodle Ranch petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/free-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch-free-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch?utm_medium=facebookutm_source=share_petitionutm_term=autopublish# I hope the cats will end up in a safe place and not euthed. Remember, more than anything, it is the cats who now are in bigger danger now, then they were at the ranch. Also - consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) This is a sad story. I hope we hear better news for all the animals involved. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats. Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder. I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
ASPCA removed 700 cats from Caboodle Ranch - I tried posting it here this morning, even in three parts, it was still too large., and kept bouncing back, saying it has to be reviewed.. If anyone would like to see it, let me know and I will forward TO YOU. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of dana giordano Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:51 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links Just info on the caboodle ranch issue: This place gets a lot of media attention and volunteers. Personally, while he's not perfect, he was not alone in this work, so it seems at least worth it to consider he got steamrolled. I've been reading about it and it really seems like it may have been part of an overall political move by PETA (who tends to kill animals, not save them - check their stats.) PETA apparently wants to stop the bill that will allow rescues to pull the animals slated to die from the county shelter and is using this issue as a platform. ASPCA was involved but I think PETA was pretty much running that show. And if there is one org I do NOT trust it is PETA. (So now you know where my bias is.) Anyway, If you're interested in reading more: http://blogs.catster.com/the-cats-meow-a-cat-and-kitten-blog/caboodle-ranch- the-other-side-of-the-story/2012/03/05/ http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03-02/story/embattled-caboodle-ranch -operator-says-confiscated-records-detail-his If you want to support the guy, there is a Caboodle Ranch petition: http://www.change.org/petitions/free-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch-fre e-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch?utm_medium=facebook http://www.change.org/petitions/free-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch-fr ee-craig-grant-and-open-caboodle-ranch?utm_medium=facebookutm_source=share_ petitionutm_term=autopublish utm_source=share_petitionutm_term=autopublish# I hope the cats will end up in a safe place and not euthed. Remember, more than anything, it is the cats who now are in bigger danger now, then they were at the ranch. Also - consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) This is a sad story. I hope we hear better news for all the animals involved. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links
I know many people who do TNR and have dedicated volunteers taking care of them, even trapping for vet visits. Personally, I don't like some of the ways that TNR cats are provided or NOT provided for. Some groups spay cats and release them almost immediately, even in freezing weather (when it is a known fact that healing is seriously hindered) , and such consequences as infections, and even disembowelment due to ruptures. Yes, one should expect cats at such a ranch to be provided with medical care! I can't even imagine how many people are required to seriously care for 700 cats! Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:26 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] caboodle ranch - other side of the story links consider how many times TNR's put domestic cats back on the street if there were feeders? (I'm not one of them, but consider that, before condemning the guy.) You mean the policy of returning cats to a feral colony if the colony has a feeder?..how that fits into this situation? TNR is for ferals not housecats. Though in some cases_such as mine I trap cats on the loose, ferals or not. If feral they go to a feral colony, if not I try to find owner, education goes so far, most people will want to keep the cat in/out but at least the cat is neutered now and won't be making more. If possible I take in the cat, list as found and if it is not claimed I put him up for adoption_taking in all tame cats is just not possible but I do try to bring in the declaweds and kittens._ I don't just abandon the cat out there, I make sure it has shelter and a feeder. I know very well this is considered cruel by a sector of the pop and that's ok, we all have a right to our opinion. But I don't understand how this fits with Caboodle, you mean because he had all these cats roaming the property and they weren't taken care of? If so I would say that since he said Caboodle was a sanctuary that implies the cats are to be taken care of, if sick taken to a vet etc._Very different from a feral colony where the intentions are the same but nobody wants a colony of sick cats and yet there are ferals that will die rather than walk in a trap; I know I had one of these. We tried for half a year to trap him and in his last months it was evident that he would have had to be euthanized. We just could not, and one day we found him dead. It happens often and makes caretakers feel awful. A sanctuary OTOH is expected to treat each and every cat. A sanctuary is not just a place to leave a pet, walk away and forget all about it. That is why a person is expected to fund the cat care. Granted some of the cats could have been dumped at the place and no money to support them. But it wasn't the majority, and if CG couldn't afford them did he ask rescues to take them? I don't know that, I can't side with either story but just wanted to comment on that remark abt TNR and how it fit with the CR situation, I think it doesn't. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch link
I'm just posting this link in case anyone is interested in hearing the other side of the story--I am not trying to take either side but thought this may be of interest to some. I can't say which side is right--my guess would be neither and that the truth lies somewhere in between, however, PETA is absolutely using this case to try to fight the Florida Animal Rescue Act and for me, their involvement really skews things. Again though just posting since this case has been discussed here. Thanks! http://caboodleranch.livejournal.com/43479.html ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch link
I don't know what the truth is here but I do know PETA is no friend to any animal, they KILL more animals that, shelters, hoarders or abusers put together. They are EVIL. Their agenda is to make animal companionship illegal ... period! http://www.petakillsanimals.com/ http://www.petakillsanimals.com/downloads/PetaKillsAnimals.pdf This has been known for a long time ... take the time to learn the truth. On 3/5/2012 7:29 AM, Heather wrote: I'm just posting this link in case anyone is interested in hearing the other side of the story--I am not trying to take either side but thought this may be of interest to some. � I can't say which side is right--my guess would be neither and that the truth lies somewhere in between, however, PETA is absolutely using this case to try to fight the Florida Animal Rescue Act and for me, their involvement really skews things.� Again though just posting since this case has been discussed here.� Thanks! http://caboodleranch.livejournal.com/43479.html -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://BelindaSauro.com http://HostDesign4U.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch link
More Info on how great PETA is: http://www.consumerfreedom.com/?s=PETAsubmit=Search http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/first_let_kill_all_the_animals_DnyhE723tSo64mkmmM9SUN http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/24/documents-peta-kills-more-than-95-percent-of-pets-in-its-care/ **“PETA hasn’t slowed down its slaughterhouse operation,” said Rick Berman, CCF’s (Center For Consumer Freedom) executive director. “It appears PETA is more concerned with funding its media and advertising antics than finding suitable homes for these dogs and cats.”** **PETA said in an April 2011 interview with Newsweek that the ‘no-kill’ policy simply wasn’t possible. ‘We would rather offer these animals a painless death than have them tortured, starved, or sold for research,’ Daphna Nachminovitch told the magazine.** DISGUSTING -- OK, I'm done now! Thanks Heather for bring this to light. I don't know anything about Craig or his rescue but my gut, intuition tells me the Live Journal story below is closer to the truth. = On 3/5/2012 7:29 AM, Heather wrote: I'm just posting this link in case anyone is interested in hearing the other side of the story--I am not trying to take either side but thought this may be of interest to some. � I can't say which side is right--my guess would be neither and that the truth lies somewhere in between, however, PETA is absolutely using this case to try to fight the Florida Animal Rescue Act and for me, their involvement really skews things.� Again though just posting since this case has been discussed here.� Thanks! http://caboodleranch.livejournal.com/43479.html -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://BelindaSauro.com http://HostDesign4U.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch link
I realize what PETA is trying to do with the propend legislation, but it doesn't negate the conditions at Caboodle, nor how the creep took money for personal use even though at the same time he was paying himself a hefty salary! He may have started with good intentions, but obviously abandoned them down the line. I always questioned the logistics of such an open type cat rescue group - how does one keep them all inside, how does one keep track of them, and what would stop anyone from dumping new and possibly sick cats..and much more. PETA has also been going after a hospice-type group in NY state called Angel's Gate; they take in FeLV/FIV, terminally ill and very handicapped animals - of course, visiting such a place is never the same as seeing healthy animals for adoption. FoA is fully backing Angel Gate's work, and I can truly appreciate how much different it is caring for healthy versus only sick animals, from my own experience. As much as I appreciate much of PETA's work, some of their work is extremely questionable, and Ingrid Newkirk originally came from managing a kill shelter, never abandoning her serious kill convictions!. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Heather Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 10:29 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch link I'm just posting this link in case anyone is interested in hearing the other side of the story--I am not trying to take either side but thought this may be of interest to some. I can't say which side is right--my guess would be neither and that the truth lies somewhere in between, however, PETA is absolutely using this case to try to fight the Florida Animal Rescue Act and for me, their involvement really skews things. Again though just posting since this case has been discussed here. Thanks! http://caboodleranch.livejournal.com/43479.html ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch
It appears I was certainly wrong to assume Craig Grant just couldn't turn down a homeless cat. It was money for his own enjoyment that he couldn't turn down! This is really shocking. Lorrie On 03-02, C PQ wrote: FYI: Here's another perspective on the situation: From: X [name removed] Sent: Tuesday,February 28, 2012 3:51 PM Subject: Craig Grant, Director of Caboodle Ranch The below info isfound at this link: https://www.facebook.com/caboodleranch.savethekitties Yesterday, when I heard of the investigation and rescue intervention at Caboodle Ranch, my first thought was that Craig Grant was just another compassionate fool who got in over his head because he couldn't turn away a cat with nowhere to go. The below information has changed my perception of him. No decent individual would let animals in his custody go without needed medical care, food and clean living conditions while making frivolous expenditures on himself from 501.3c funds that should have been spent on the cats. Financial Fraud For an overview of embezzlement and financial fraud click here here. Records obtained through the court indicate that operator, Craig Grant, is embezzling corporate funds (donations) for personal use. There are numerous transactions on their 501(c) not-for-profit account for transactions such as: airline flights, trip to Vegas, tickets to Daytona 500, hotels, online clothing orders, online magazine orders, gifts, etc. The list goes on and on. Craig admitted in court records that he does not routinely record cash donations. It's been reported that Craig has used cash to take people out to eat. In interviews Craig Grant has stated he gets a $1000/month personal salary. Therefore, any personal expenses should be paid for out of HIS salary. It is unlawful for any transactions for personal use to come out of a not-for-profit corporate account. All donations/income MUST be used for the care of cats. The IRS andAttorney General have been notified. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch
You came to that conclusion only because it is usually the case under such circumstances; Craig is different, he's just a creepy, old, despicable, and selfish son-of-a-gun! That was my first thought, too, because on videos that I've seen before, the place looked immaculate and the cats appeared healthy (that must have been the first day!) and then things went steadily downhill, or, more likely, at an accelerated pace. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lorrie Sent: Friday, March 02, 2012 9:29 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch It appears I was certainly wrong to assume Craig Grant just couldn't turn down a homeless cat. It was money for his own enjoyment that he couldn't turn down! This is really shocking. Lorrie On 03-02, C PQ wrote: FYI: Here's another perspective on the situation: From: X [name removed] Sent: Tuesday,February 28, 2012 3:51 PM Subject: Craig Grant, Director of Caboodle Ranch The below info isfound at this link: https://www.facebook.com/caboodleranch.savethekitties Yesterday, when I heard of the investigation and rescue intervention at Caboodle Ranch, my first thought was that Craig Grant was just another compassionate fool who got in over his head because he couldn't turn away a cat with nowhere to go. The below information has changed my perception of him. No decent individual would let animals in his custody go without needed medical care, food and clean living conditions while making frivolous expenditures on himself from 501.3c funds that should have been spent on the cats. Financial Fraud For an overview of embezzlement and financial fraud click here here. Records obtained through the court indicate that operator, Craig Grant, is embezzling corporate funds (donations) for personal use. There are numerous transactions on their 501(c) not-for-profit account for transactions such as: airline flights, trip to Vegas, tickets to Daytona 500, hotels, online clothing orders, online magazine orders, gifts, etc. The list goes on and on. Craig admitted in court records that he does not routinely record cash donations. It's been reported that Craig has used cash to take people out to eat. In interviews Craig Grant has stated he gets a $1000/month personal salary. Therefore, any personal expenses should be paid for out of HIS salary. It is unlawful for any transactions for personal use to come out of a not-for-profit corporate account. All donations/income MUST be used for the care of cats. The IRS andAttorney General have been notified. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty
Caboodle was one of my FB friends..I thought/read someplace there was help at CR. No way one person can cope with that many..many times hoarders do fool the authorities and the public, I've seen it hapen..lets face it; we, even if all we do is take care of the animals, have more complicated lives than a pet. So at any time something can go wrong, financially, personally, healthwise..and that is other people should take charge. Having the land and best intentions is a great start but much more is needed. I do rescue, have a license and am now starting the paperwork to be non-profit, all this while I learnt that is what has to come first, then one can start looking for volunteers and plan ahead, ie ten years from now. I know CR was nonprof so what happened to the Board and volunteers he should have had to get that status? I'm very sorry for the cats that paid_and the people that entrusted their lives to the sanctuary_for that mistake. Another cautionary tale though unfortunatly very well based on reality. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ --- On Thu, 3/1/12, dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net wrote: From: dlg...@windstream.net dlg...@windstream.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, March 1, 2012, 5:22 AM When I first heard about Grant's place, I thought that it would bea good place to send my babies when I passed. Thank God I changed my mind. I have since fond a good place for my children. If I see just a tad abnormal dischage from their eys, i is off to the vet. How could he let them get so sick? I know that with that many cats, he prpbably ran out of time and money to care for the, but he should have admtted he needed help for the sake of the cats. Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: When will people learn not to dump their animals at these sanctuaries?? http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/Caboodle_Ranch_Cat_Sanctuary_Operator_Faces_Cruelty_Charges_140581263.html?storySection=story If you have sent cats to Caboodle call 212-876-7700 ASPCA Head Office for further information in the morning. Agencies assisting the ASPCA on scene include: Atlanta Humane Society (Atlanta, Ga.); Bay Area Disaster Animal Response Team (Belleair Bluffs, Fla.); Cat Depot (Sarasota, Fla.); Florida State Animal Response Coalition (Bushnell, Fla.). Celene Albano HPR Rescue CEO 501c3 Non-Profit. Tax ID # 42-169-3737 Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty
It's very sad and unfortunate when someone with really good intentions allows things to go so wrong, doesn't ask for help. But, to be fair, maybe help that was asked for but never materialized..I know how people can be. This also gives other groups a bad name. I have MANY cats, but if donations don't come in, we happen to be lucky to be able to subsidize until things get better. I could never allow any cat to get that sick, especially with simple and very avoidable things. We house the cats in our home, and people who visit would never be able to guess how many there are, and that we have so many (they guess a tiny fraction) - and that requires a tremendous amount of work. I don't want anyone to leave here and spread rumors about a dirty, smelly house.. I have also known about very hasty conclusions drawn by people who have no idea what it's like to care for many cats, especially multiple number of sick ones with very special needs. In upper CT, several years ago, a woman housed the shelter in her home, was president of a cat rescue organization, was raided one morning, before she was even out of bed. They broke the glass on the door to open it from the inside, barged in, confiscated all the cats, charged her with trumped up things like this (remember, this is about 7 AM): dirty litter boxes, no food for the cats, sick cats with various illnesses (ear mites, CRF, no teeth, as if that's an illness etc), practicing medicine without a license (she had meds for the cats and treating them), and the list went on like that. She wasn't even allowed to tell them which meds were for which cats, and which cats were the sick ones - they were going to have their vets determine that! During this round-up, the poor cats were petrified, flew around like ferals, which they were NOT). She was not even allowed to visit them (including her personal cats) that were put up at various places around the area, and by the time of the court date, she owed the state over $130,000 in boarding and vet fees. She wasn't able to pay that. Many cats died during that time, were separated from their buddies in separate cages, never knew freedom..they were held as evidence. This all happened because a disgruntled volunteer reported her to state canine and USDA. Natalie From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:13 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty Caboodle was one of my FB friends..I thought/read someplace there was help at CR. No way one person can cope with that many..many times hoarders do fool the authorities and the public, I've seen it hapen..lets face it; we, even if all we do is take care of the animals, have more complicated lives than a pet. So at any time something can go wrong, financially, personally, healthwise..and that is other people should take charge. Having the land and best intentions is a great start but much more is needed. I do rescue, have a license and am now starting the paperwork to be non-profit, all this while I learnt that is what has to come first, then one can start looking for volunteers and plan ahead, ie ten years from now. I know CR was nonprof so what happened to the Board and volunteers he should have had to get that status? I'm very sorry for the cats that paid_and the people that entrusted their lives to the sanctuary_for that mistake. Another cautionary tale though unfortunatly very well based on reality. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty
I don't know the full story of the woman in CT, so I can't comment on that, but I've seen people who are heads of rescue organizations who are hoarders. Just because someone has a title does not mean they are OK. Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty It’s very sad and unfortunate when someone with really good intentions allows things to go so wrong, doesn’t ask for help. But, to be fair, maybe help that was asked for but never materialized….I know how people can be. This also gives other groups a bad name. I have MANY cats, but if donations don’t come in, we happen to be lucky to be able to subsidize until things get better. I could never allow any cat to get that sick, especially with simple and very avoidable things. We house the cats in our home, and people who visit would never be able to guess how many there are, and that we have so many (they guess a tiny fraction) – and that requires a tremendous amount of work. I don’t want anyone to leave here and spread rumors about a dirty, smelly house…. I have also known about very “hasty” conclusions drawn by people who have no idea what it’s like to care for many cats, especially multiple number of sick ones with very special needs. In upper CT, several years ago, a woman housed the shelter in her home, was president of a cat rescue organization, was raided one morning, before she was even out of bed. They broke the glass on the door to open it from the inside, barged in, confiscated all the cats, charged her with trumped up things like this (remember, this is about 7 AM): dirty litter boxes, no food for the cats, sick cats with various illnesses (ear mites, CRF, no teeth, as if that’s an illness etc), practicing medicine without a license (she had meds for the cats and treating them), and the list went on like that. She wasn’t even allowed to tell them which meds were for which cats, and which cats were the sick ones - they were going to have their vets determine that! During this round-up, the poor cats were petrified, flew around like ferals, which they were NOT)… She was not even allowed to visit them (including her personal cats) that were put up at various places around the area, and by the time of the court date, she owed the state over $130,000 in boarding and vet fees. She wasn’t able to pay that. Many cats died during that time, were separated from their buddies in separate cages, never knew freedom….they were held as evidence. This all happened because a disgruntled volunteer reported her to state canine and USDA. Natalie From:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Marta Gasper Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 8:13 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty Caboodle was one of my FB friends..I thought/read someplace there was help at CR. No way one person can cope with that many..many times hoarders do fool the authorities and the public, I've seen it hapen..lets face it; we, even if all we do is take care of the animals, have more complicated lives than a pet. So at any time something can go wrong, financially, personally, healthwise..and that is other people should take charge. Having the land and best intentions is a great start but much more is needed. I do rescue, have a license and am now starting the paperwork to be non-profit, all this while I learnt that is what has to come first, then one can start looking for volunteers and plan ahead, ie ten years from now. I know CR was nonprof so what happened to the Board and volunteers he should have had to get that status? I'm very sorry for the cats that paid_and the people that entrusted their lives to the sanctuary_for that mistake. Another cautionary tale though unfortunatly very well based on reality. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty
When I first heard about Grant's place, I thought that it would bea good place to send my babies when I passed. Thank God I changed my mind. I have since fond a good place for my children. If I see just a tad abnormal dischage from their eys, i is off to the vet. How could he let them get so sick? I know that with that many cats, he prpbably ran out of time and money to care for the, but he should have admtted he needed help for the sake of the cats. Beth create_me_...@yahoo.com wrote: When will people learn not to dump their animals at these sanctuaries?? http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/Caboodle_Ranch_Cat_Sanctuary_Operator_Faces_Cruelty_Charges_140581263.html?storySection=story If you have sent cats to Caboodle call 212-876-7700 ASPCA Head Office for further information in the morning. Agencies assisting the ASPCA on scene include: Atlanta Humane Society (Atlanta, Ga.); Bay Area Disaster Animal Response Team (Belleair Bluffs, Fla.); Cat Depot (Sarasota, Fla.); Florida State Animal Response Coalition (Bushnell, Fla.). Celene Albano HPR Rescue CEO 501c3 Non-Profit. Tax ID # 42-169-3737 Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Caboodle Ranch - Another sanctuary owner charged with cruelty
When will people learn not to dump their animals at these sanctuaries?? http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/Caboodle_Ranch_Cat_Sanctuary_Operator_Faces_Cruelty_Charges_140581263.html?storySection=story If you have sent cats to Caboodle call 212-876-7700 ASPCA Head Office for further information in the morning. Agencies assisting the ASPCA on scene include: Atlanta Humane Society (Atlanta, Ga.); Bay Area Disaster Animal Response Team (Belleair Bluffs, Fla.); Cat Depot (Sarasota, Fla.); Florida State Animal Response Coalition (Bushnell, Fla.). Celene Albano HPR Rescue CEO 501c3 Non-Profit. Tax ID # 42-169-3737 Don't Litter, Fix Your Critter! www.Furkids.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
