Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Hi Michelle, When my was anemic and wouldn't eat I tried raw she really didnt like it most of my cats do not some do. My homepathic vet told me that I should not feed raw to a fiv/felv cat. That it's better to blanch it and feed semi raw. Now I know some vets say yes and some say no. Depending on the vet. You may try and blanch 1st and see if that helps and work up to less and less cooked, you know try fully cooked then semi and then raw and mix it together also I did that when I wanted to get a cat to eat raw if they don't raw then little by little less and less cooked. Carla
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle, As Tonya said, I think the amount of food you describe, while not hardy, is enough that I wouldn't be too terribly concerned. She is eating and that's good. The behavior you describe, going through different flavors until you hit just the right one, was so reminiscent of what I've gone through with Gypsy, that it made me cringe. I worked so hard on my AC skills so I wouldn't waste so much food! Luckily my dogs happily ate all of her left-overs. I can get turkey breast, just like chicken breast, fresh from my regular grocery store. The kind with the bone and skin, is juicier and Gypsy prefers it. I have also bought turkey breast only frozen from the grocery store. These are just the two breasts still attached, no legs, no wings. I'm sorry, I know this is probably really grossing you out. The turkey breasts are smaller than a whole turkey and are sort of shaped like a deformed ball. The ones my store sells are salted, and while I was concerned about the salt, Gypsy thought they were delicious. Marilyn suggested boiling the turkey and using the broth. This is a good idea, but it makes the meat tougher and you lose nutrients in the broth, (of course if she'll lap the broth, that's just fine). I cook the turkey by placing the breast on a small rack in a shallow Pyrex baking dish. Put a glass of filtered water in the bottom of the dish, (replenish the water if it simmers out) and cover the breast with aluminum wrap. Bake it in the oven at 350 for approx 15 minutes per pound. Undercooked is better than overcooked, (more tender). Remove the skin and extra fat before serving it to Her Highness. The water catches all the juices and is a very nutritious broth that you can use as well. Pour it into a wide mouth glass container, and put it in the fridge. When it cools, the fat will rise to the top and you can scrape it off and discard it, or add tiny amounts to your dog's food a bit at a time. The deli counter meats are usually seasoned too much and can have additives, and/or preservatives she doesn't need. It's also much more expensive, if this is going to be an ongoing thing. Cats are such a sensitive judge of freezer burn, and meat gone off, that they notice before we do. If meat looks off to you, it probably is. I'd go back and smack that butcher that told you meat that has been frozen that long is probably fine. I wouldn't give her the non-meat prescription diet. My cats love those horrible, junk filled Whiskas Temptation treats, that doesn't mean they should eat them on a regular basis. Stick to foods that are as close to their natural state, foods that aren't processed. I understand completely why thoughts of cancer keep surfacing. Get them out of your brain if you can. There are so many times when I begin to freak out and then I realize that this same behavior in a healthy cat would not get a second glance. You are hyper vigilant for good reason, but do your best to imagine a strong healthy result instead of the reverse. We've all learned how effective our good thoughts and prayers are for our babies on the list. I truly believe the combined energy of this group brings about miracles. Keep that in mind when you are focusing on the worst case outcome and imagine the opposite instead! Our thoughts are very powerful. Much love to you and yours, Nina
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it). My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome. I started her on nux vomica last night also. Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I really believe it would have caused any problems it was going to cause by now. It is a wonderful food. Kitty eats it instead of various wet foods most of the time, especially when she thinks I have added supplements to them. Kitty was diagnosed with cancer almost a year ago and will not takeanything the alternative vet or her vet wants her to take. Forcing her is too traumatic so I am letting her have her was. By the way, sherefused to eat turkey and the wet foods that contained it when it started giving her problems. I guess she knows what is best for her. Watch Lucy's fluid intake if she is not used to dry food just to make sure she is getting enough. Good luck. PS My alternative vet recommends Apple Pectin fordiarrhea and my regular vet recommends a pinch of Metamucil (unflavored) or phylum. It adds bulk and really has helped with other animals, both dogs and cats. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Can she eat cooked turkey? Try the turkey and cooked rice (a subset of Dr. Pitcairn's diet for diarrhea). Gloria On Jan 23, 2006, at 8:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment. Thanks, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
RE: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I say, watch her closely, but continue to give her what she likes to eat for now and see what happens. Michelle, I really think that Lucy will go back to eat raw turkey food again in a while Most of the cats I have always have stopped eating their favorite food, whatever they were, if I gave them every day for a long time.. but when I stop giving them for a while and give them again in a month or two later,, they love to eat again.. I think that especially with cats, variation is the key so that they dont get sick of eating the food which are really good for them please keep us posted with the progress. Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it). My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome. I started her on nux vomica last night also. Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Hi Michelle, As with Lucy, the only thing that helped Gypsy regain formed stools was a raw diet. When Lucy was having elimination problems, I was going to suggest switching from TC Instincts to adding your own sups, that way you have more control monitoring whatever may be causing the constipation/vomiting problem. One of the ladies on the IBD list also encountered vomiting problems when she added bone meal to her cat's diet. You just don't know what's going to cause problems, until the problems start. As far as her refusing raw... I was close to panic stricken when Gypsy had a relapse and then refused her raw food. Since it was the only thing that seemed to help her in the past, I worried that she would once again wither away. I don't think there is a cat that is picker, or has more issues with food than Gypsy, (she now refuses to eat unless someone is petting her). When I started her on raw, the only thing she would eat was raw salmon, then raw duck. Finally I was able to mix duck and salmon together. She lasted a couple of months on that diet and then one day refused to eat either of them. What I have found with her is that if she has even a slight GI problem, whatever she has been eating is crossed off her list, she just won't touch it again, sometimes for months. She will also refuse ground cooked/raw turkey, but will hungrily eat oven roasted turkey breast. White meat is okay, but dark meat is too rich. There have been times that she would only eat grocery store bbq chicken. There was one frightening week where all I could get her to consume was warmed goats milk. Salmon used to be her very favorite food on earth, (I tamed her with the help of salmon fillet!), after one of her relapses, she wouldn't even eat anything with minute amounts of salmon oil mixed in. It took her months to enjoy salmon fillet again. EVO made her violently ill the first time she ate a couple of morsels, she can now eat it without a problem as long as it doesn't constitute more than 5, or 10% of her intake. I've sent you the cooked turkey diet that Gypsy is currently having success on. If she has any problems, or the food is more than a couple days in the fridge, she'll refuse to eat it. When that happens, I'll give her plain cooked turkey, (I'm talking oven roasted, not ground and sauteed). The fresher the better. Straight out of the oven, still warm, is her favorite. I'll also supplement her with gm and turkey baby food. After a day, or two, she'll go back to her fully supplemented turkey diet. She'd probably eat raw again at this point, but as long as I have a diet that's working, (and that she'll eat!), I'm not going to mess with success. While I understand why you've chosen to fast Lucy, however, I would never attempt it with Gypsy. Food and eating is not a priority with her and if she stops eating for a day, it's so much harder to get her started again. Offer Lucy her favorite non processed food, warmed is best. Don't worry about "balancing" the diet until she has begun eating, then slowly reintroduce supplements, beginning with those sups that have the least amount of taste/texture and those that you have deemed most important to her health. Because it is a priority that Gypsy eat anything, rather than nothing, I have also had the opportunity to see that her stools will firm once her she has eaten a consistent diet, (the same protein), for more than a few days. I've learned not to panic, as long as she continues to eat. I do think that if Lucy were going to have a reaction to the EVO/canned food, it would have been almost immediate. I have found that keeping the diet simple and consistent is the most important factor in controlling Gypsy's IBD. If Lucy's eating the canned, and it's a good quality canned, I'd keep her on that and avoid the EVO. Of course, if she seems to be doing okay on both the EVO and the canned, then I don't see any reason to restrict her intake by denying it. I would follow her lead. If she wants to eat one thing over another, (as long as it's not toxic to her system), I'd let her have what she wants. So far, and my opinion keeps changing, the most important thing is to get Gypsy eating the same diet long enough for her system to adjust to it. Believe me, I know what a heart wrenching trial it can be to dote on a finicky cat with GI problems. Hang in there, trust her instincts, as well as your own and give whatever diet she's on a long enough chance for her system to stabilize. With support and sympathy, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it).My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome.I started her on nux vomica last night also.Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle,If I were you I would offer what she'll take, but try mixing in little bits of what you want her to eat that she's not eating. I don't think there's been enough time for it to make her sick yet if it's going to. For that reason I'd keep giving her small amounts at a time. I wouldn't give her a full meal until you're sure the evo, canned, raw, whatever is not going to make her sick. That's my 2 cents.I'd give her what she wants to keep her eating. Just mix in some of what she wants and some of what you want her to have, and don't give her too much at a time. Have you ever heard of doing the 'allergy' diet where you only give one thing for like 3 weeks and then add another item to the diet, and then another, etc I read about it when dealing with my ibd cats. I would try to get her to take as little a variety as possible since you're dealing with ibd. At least until you figure out what ingredient besides chicken is causing the problem.t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lucy had loose stool for over 2 months, which was helped by pred but only went away completely on a raw diet. She then got constipated this week, about 3 or 4 weeks into the raw diet. I gave her olive oil, which helped. But now she is refusing to eat her turkey diet, raw or cooked. She seems disgusted by it. I was a little surprised she ate it to begin with, as she always used to refuse canned food or cooked chicken and only wanted dry food. But she liked it at first. Now she is sick of it and will not touch it. Since it is the only thing that controlled her diarrhea, I am a little worried about her not eating it. I tried not giving her anything else and she did not eat for almost a day. I finally gave her a little bit of canned turkey and rice cat food (no other grains, but has some vegetables-- avoiding chicken because she did not do well on it before), and she ate it yesterday morning, and a little more later in the day. She ate a handful of EVO dry (no grains, but vegetables) as well and wanted more, but I was afraid to give it to her. At night she had a normal bowel movement, and none so far today. So I gave her a little more of the canned food (after trying futilely to get her to eat her raw diet-- she refused to even look at it).My question is this: Do you think that if she were going to get diarrhea from the canned food and/or the EVO, do you think it would have happened already? Do you think it is safe to offer her more of it? Any other suggestions? I already fasted her for a day last week to get rid of vomiting and she hardly ate day before yesterday because we were battling over the turkey diet, so I do not really want to just not feed her in the hope she will give in and eat it. But I also do not want to start another round of loose stool. Any suggestions or thoughts are welcome.I started her on nux vomica last night also.Thanks, Michelle
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
It depends on how much she ate. If she's had enough to eat there would have been time for her to get sick. If you're feeding her sparingly it might take a little longer. An overful stomach can lead to diarrhea and/or vomiting just by itself.. That's why I would err on the side of caution rather than risking her getting sick again and 'undoing' your progress.. Again, I'm no expert. t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Lucy actually does really well with turkey, which is why I picked turkey for her raw diet. She does not do as well with other meats. She is not doing badly from the turkey diet either, just decided she is through with it and won't touch it now. I am glad your cat does so well on EVO. It looks like that may be all that Lucy will eat that I am willing to feed her right now. Do you think if it were going to cause diarrhea it would have done so by now? She had the EVO at about 6 pm, I think-- so 15 hours ago. I just gave her another small handful of it but am afraid to give her more than that right now, but it is is all she will eat besides baby food at the moment.Thanks, MichelleIn a message dated 1/23/2006 8:58:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Several books show turkey is a major allergen for cats. Kitty, my live in former feral, had diarrhea so bad the vets thought she had major pancreas problems. I put her on an elimination diet where we gave her only a couple of foods then added to it. The turkey had to have been the cause but the turkey in EVO is processed differently that the turkey we normally feed cats or that is in cat food. She eats EVO all the time and has had no problems. Even her vet was amazed. She is almost 14 and cats don't usually develop allergies that bad at her age.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping this passes as well. I swear it is just the constant fear of lymphoma that makes me anxious whenever they act finicky. It was the first sign for each of my three who died of lymphoma. But I know it can be a sign of lots of other things, including obstinacy! Thanks again, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 1:35:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do think that if Lucy were going to have a reaction to the EVO/canned food, it would have been almost immediate. I have found that keeping the diet simple and consistent is the most important factor in controlling Gypsy's IBD. If Lucy's eating the canned, and it's a good quality canned, I'd keep her on that and avoid the EVO. Of course, if she seems to be doing okay on both the EVO and the canned, then I don't see any reason to restrict her intake by denying it. I would follow her lead. If she wants to eat one thing over another, (as long as it's not toxic to her system), I'd let her have what she wants. So far, and my opinion keeps changing, the most important thing is to get Gypsy eating the same diet long enough for her system to adjust to it.
RE: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle, I can so emphasize what you go through --since most of my cats are corona virus positive (and some are very high titer), everytime, they ran a high fever over 105, I was so convinced that they had FIP and they are goin to die as you know FIP is so fatal - and after I went through the same experience with about a dozen times with eacht time, different cat, I started not to pay attention to FIP anymore- Michelle, I know that you consntantly think of lymphma, but I really have a good feeling that this will pass soon with Lucy, too -- again, Ginger goes through this not eating once every few months,, but it has passed each time. Michelle, keep a good thought for Lucy, and stay positive for Lucy,, a positive thought WILL bring a positive energy --- I will be sending a positive thought to Lucy and Pacthes and to you! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 4:36 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping this passes as well. I swear it is just the constant fear of lymphoma that makes me anxious whenever they act finicky. It was the first sign for each of my three who died of lymphoma. But I know it can be a sign of lots of other things, including obstinacy! Thanks again, Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 1:35:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I do think that if Lucy were going to have a reaction to the EVO
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping
RE: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Michelle, have you also tried V-B complex injection, which has helped increased appetite for some of my babies. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MarylynSent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:11 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:35 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs. You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold. Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion.I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful.And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would.You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something.Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila???t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the long post, Nina. Lucy now will not eat the EVO or the canned food. She ate some baby food, probably half a jar. Just to see if it is pickiness or nausea, I offered her two pieces of a dry food she used to eat, and she did eat them right away. I am afraid to give her more of that though. I am thinking that perhaps this last batch of turkey I got had something wrong with it. It looked more brown than red, and is usually red. The last time she would not eat it, when she ate a little and then threw up, it was brown like this too. The health food store I went to (mine was out of it) said it had been in the freezer since October, but when I expressed concern they said it was fine because it was continuously frozen. I think it may be fine in terms of safety, but perhaps does not smell or taste right to a cat. Anyway, I am hoping that is all it is. I am waiting for a new batch to come in, and also ordered some frozen turkey raw food for cats that does not have grains. She has not had any loose stools, or any stool since last evening, on the positive side. I tried cooking chicken for her and she looked excited but after trying one piece did not want it anymore. She never did like cooked chicken though. The thing that bothers me most, I think, is that she has not eaten all that much today, but she is not acting really hungry either. She has not asked for food like she usually does. I think all she had today was maybe a total of one jar of baby food, a spoonful of wet food, and two small handfuls of EVO, most of it this morning. It seems like she should be hungry. Unless her stomach feels funny from eating new foods. I gave her a quarter of a periactin to see if that helps and gets her to eat a little more. I weighed her, though, and she does not seem to have lost any more weight-- still weighing in at over 9 lbs.You don't think I should give her the dry food she ate the two pieces of, do you? It's a prescription hypoallergenic dry food the vet had me try her on when she first had the loose stool, and it has NO meat. The protein source is soy. And of course it has grain and also a lot of crap in it. I can't seem to find anywhere at all where I can buy turkey breast. Only a large whole turkey from the supermarket (which I do not want to do for various reasons, but especially when I have no idea if she will eat it) or frozen ground turkey. But assuming I find some, how do I roast it? I have never cooked meat except in a pan for the cats or dogs. Do I just stick it in the oven and put it on broil? Or do I need to do something to it first? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question! It is possible that the deli counter at the supermarket has roasted turkey. Do you think that would be ok to try with her? What about deli slices? She possibly seems a little less active, but she played when I offered her a rubberband (her favorite toy and I never let her play with them because I fear she will swallow them), and she is super-affectionate as usual. It is also colder today after being warm for 2 days, and she hates the cold.Well, I am trying to take this calmly. At this point, in the last two weeks every one of my positives has gone through a period of hardly eating. Patches, due to her teeth it turned out, and Ginger because I had run out of her current food obsession (Pro Plan chicken and rice)-- when I bought more of that she started eating normally again! So now it is Lucy. I am hoping this passes as well. I swear it
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I actually did try sauteeing it in some water and giving her the broth. She has liked that the past few weeks but would not touch it today. But I think there may be something wrong with this batch of turkey as it was less red than the last batches. I had not thought to add salt. That is a good idea. As soon as I get some more meat I will do that. Thanks, Michelle P.S. Thanks for the RR suggestion. She is quite calm, though. Or did you mean I should take it? :) In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:12:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
No. I have thought of it, but would have to take her to vet to get it. I am in-between vets with her right now-- the one I was using basically did not want to treat her anymore until I get her an endoscapy (scope of her intestines) which I did not want to do at this point. I switched Quincy and Patches to another vet already, but have not had to take Lucy in yet. I am not sure I want to take her just for a B12 injection, as she gets super stressed by carriers and car rides. Do you think it would be a good idea to crush a b-complex tablet and syringe it to her with some baby food or something? She is very easy to syringe. I did give her a little periactin a couple of hours ago. She is sitting on Gray's lap right now purring so loudly that it sounds like there is a motor running in the room. She is not nearly as disturbed by all this as me-- in fact, it is probably all just part of an elaborate plan she has to get her dry food back! (I hope that is all, anyway) Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:16:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Michelle, have you also tried V-B complex injection, which has helped increased appetite for some of my babies.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Ah, I wish I could drink taquila, but I have gastritis (raw stomach lining) and so can not drink any alcohol. Would be nice though! (though i think taquila tastes horrible, actually!) Lucy never eats as much as the other cats. But when she was eating the raw food she ate about 4 bowls full per day. Maybe it is just a lot more water, though, and she is getting the same amount of food today, approximately, I don't know. A measuring cup per cat is actually a lot of dry food-- way more than two small handfuls. I would guess she ate less than 1/4 cup of the EVO today plus the baby food and spoonful or wet. You are right that it is enough not to be worried about a lot of weight loss or HL or anything like that. I just worry that it is a trend, and I worry about what to give her in the morning since she seems to be crossing everything off her list after one meal. But I guess I will just see what she wants in the morning and worry about it then. I seriously was convinced that there was something wrong with Ginger about two weeks ago because she was eating way less than usual and covered up (or pantomimed it, anyway) everything I offered her, including lots of favorites. I finally realized that I had run out of a recent favorite canned food and went and bought more of it, and she started eating a lot again! But only wants that one food! She and Patches both did this to me at the same time about two months ago-- first they both got obessed with Wellness chicken and herring canned food and stopped eating anything else. So I bought a case of it and they went through the whole case. So I bought another whole case of it. And wouldn't you know they changed their minds as soon as I brought it home and would not eat even a bite of it! To this day they don't want it. Now all Ginger wants is chunky chicken and rice by Pro Plan. But to see her disgust with all my other offerings, you would have thought she was generally repulsed by food. And Lucy is generally way way pickier than the other two, so I realize this may just be a protest of the menu on her part. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:18:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion. I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful. And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would. You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something. Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila??? t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I'd suggest it for both of you. Cats are good at hiding their feelings. People need it when they are dealing with cats, particularly sick cats. I need it by the gallon. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now I actually did try sauteeing it in some water and giving her the broth. She has liked that the past few weeks but would not touch it today. But I think there may be something wrong with this batch of turkey as it was less red than the last batches. I had not thought to add salt. That is a good idea. As soon as I get some more meat I will do that. Thanks, Michelle P.S. Thanks for the RR suggestion. She is quite calm, though. Or did you mean I should take it? :) In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:12:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Re cooking turkey: Try boiling it. I'm vegetarian and I hate cooking for the cats but they aren't so...Try to keep it a little rare. I don't feed mine turkey for reasons previously mentioned but if it is working for you have at it. This should also give you a broth that may help. The last time Kitty went on a hunger strike I got some highly salted ham and boiled a little for her (they sell little bits for biscuits or seasoning here). I think the odor but, more likely, the salt broke the fast. Saltines or other salty things help me when I have an upset stomach so I tried that reasoning on her. Once she had a little bit she felt like eating again and didn't want the really salty ham. She does like deli ham sometimes. Again, it seems to settle her stomach. Her liver is enlarged and pushing on the stomach which isn't helping things at all. These are just thoughts. I hope they help. I also suggest you try Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect which might help.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
EVO is a lot more concentrated and filling (according to Kitty) than a lot of other foods. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Ah, I wish I could drink taquila, but I have gastritis (raw stomach lining) and so can not drink any alcohol. Would be nice though! (though i think taquila tastes horrible, actually!) Lucy never eats as much as the other cats. But when she was eating the raw food she ate about 4 bowls full per day. Maybe it is just a lot more water, though, and she is getting the same amount of food today, approximately, I don't know. A measuring cup per cat is actually a lot of dry food-- way more than two small handfuls. I would guess she ate less than 1/4 cup of the EVO today plus the baby food and spoonful or wet. You are right that it is enough not to be worried about a lot of weight loss or HL or anything like that. I just worry that it is a trend, and I worry about what to give her in the morning since she seems to be crossing everything off her list after one meal. But I guess I will just see what she wants in the morning and worry about it then. I seriously was convinced that there was something wrong with Ginger about two weeks ago because she was eating way less than usual and covered up (or pantomimed it, anyway) everything I offered her, including lots of favorites. I finally realized that I had run out of a recent favorite canned food and went and bought more of it, and she started eating a lot again! But only wants that one food! She and Patches both did this to me at the same time about two months ago-- first they both got obessed with Wellness chicken and herring canned food and stopped eating anything else. So I bought a case of it and they went through the whole case. So I bought another whole case of it. And wouldn't you know they changed their minds as soon as I brought it home and would not eat even a bite of it! To this day they don't want it. Now all Ginger wants is chunky chicken and rice by Pro Plan. But to see her disgust with all my other offerings, you would have thought she was generally repulsed by food. And Lucy is generally way way pickier than the other two, so I realize this may just be a protest of the menu on her part. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:18:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion. I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful. And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would. You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something. Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila??? t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
That's good to know! Thanks! In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:53:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: EVO is a lot more concentrated and filling (according to Kitty) than a lot of other foods.
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants.tMarylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: EVO is a lot more concentrated and filling (according to Kitty) than a lot of other foods. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now Ah, I wish I could drink taquila, but I have gastritis (raw stomach lining) and so can not drink any alcohol. Would be nice though! (though i think taquila tastes horrible, actually!)Lucy never eats as much as the other cats. But when she was eating the raw food she ate about 4 bowls full per day. Maybe it is just a lot more water, though, and she is getting the same amount of food today, approximately, I don't know. A measuring cup per cat is actually a lot of dry food-- way more than two small handfuls. I would guess she ate less than 1/4 cup of the EVO today plus the baby food and spoonful or wet. You are right that it is enough not to be worried about a lot of weight loss or HL or anything like that. I just worry that it is a trend, and I worry about what to give her in the morning since she seems to be crossing everything off her list after one meal. But I guess I will just see what she wants in the morning and worry about it then.I seriously was convinced that there was something wrong with Ginger about two weeks ago because she was eating way less than usual and covered up (or pantomimed it, anyway) everything I offered her, including lots of favorites. I finally realized that I had run out of a recent favorite canned food and went and bought more of it, and she started eating a lot again! But only wants that one food! She and Patches both did this to me at the same time about two months ago-- first they both got obessed with Wellness chicken and herring canned food and stopped eating anything else. So I bought a case of it and they went through the whole case. So I bought another whole case of it. And wouldn't you know they changed their minds as soon as I brought it home and would not eat even a bite of it! To this day they don't want it. Now all Ginger wants is chunky chicken and rice by Pro Plan. But to see her disgust with all my other offerings, you would have thought she was generally repulsed by food. And Lucy is generally way way pickier than the other two, so I realize this may just be a protest of the menu on her part.MichelleIn a message dated 1/23/2006 7:18:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I don't know Michelle. Most of my cats are on the rather 'plump' side, and they don't eat that much. Are you sure she normally eats lots more than this, or are you just maybe paying more attention to what she's eating since she's been sick? A jar of baby food, a spoon of wet food, and even two small handfuls of EVO should be enough that she's not particularly hungry in my opinion.I put out 5 small, ceramic bowls of kibble for 7 cats every day. And they don't even eat all of that before the next day. And most of them are 'obese' like their mom, lol, but it doesn't really seem like they eat that much. It has to work out to maybe a measuring cup per cat, if it's even that much. And 2 of mine are over 15 pounds! When I give wet food (on rare occasions. I know I should do it more.) I typically split one can of royal canin between all 7 cats. If I open a second there are 2 or 3 who will eat till they puke, but the rest have had enough after their spoonful.And the litterboxes are full every day like everyone is eating and drinking way more than it seems like a cat would.You know Lucy best, but it sounds like she's doing ok right now as long as she's not getting sick, and she's eating something.Inhale, exhale! Even if something's wrong you're not going to 'sense' it as easily if you get too stressed yourself. And Lucy will sense your stress over her eating/not eating. You don't want that. Got any tequila???t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
You should see the way that Ginger scratches and paws next to any food she does not feel like eating, as if to say it is so repulsive she can not bear seeing it and would I PLEASE dispose of it and give her something edible. Ginger stayed at my mom's for a month when we were moving (I had brought her down to NJ from MA with me when my horse in NJ was dying because Ginger was too sick to leave at home, and then she got better at my mom's and stayed there for a month while we moved down to NJ). My mom fed her in a bathroom with a rug (to keep her separate from my mom's negative cat). My mom eventually took up the rug because every time Ginger did not like what my mom offered she pulled up pieces of the rug and covered the food with it! My mom said she finally stopped offering something new every time Ginger did that and just left the food, and would sneak back a few hours later and see most of it was eaten. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:07:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants. t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
Another take on this: I deal with a lot of ferals/throw aways/ cats who have had to live on their own. Most of them, even small kittens, try to hide the food they don't want to eat then, when they want it, they can come back and get it. I have a feral in the garage that does this, even with food she loves. My indoor cat, Dixie Louise, a throwaway, does this. All of them are very intent when they are covering the food, using anything they can or nothing to protect the food. I have seen them use their toys and beddingcovers. It may be a repressed instinct. Like dogs burying bones. Remember howmuch effort they put into covering in their litter boxes. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now You should see the way that Ginger scratches and paws next to any food she does not feel like eating, as if to say it is so repulsive she can not bear seeing it and would I PLEASE dispose of it and give her something edible. Ginger stayed at my mom's for a month when we were moving (I had brought her down to NJ from MA with me when my horse in NJ was dying because Ginger was too sick to leave at home, and then she got better at my mom's and stayed there for a month while we moved down to NJ). My mom fed her in a bathroom with a rug (to keep her separate from my mom's negative cat). My mom eventually took up the rug because every time Ginger did not like what my mom offered she pulled up pieces of the rug and covered the food with it! My mom said she finally stopped offering something new every time Ginger did that and just left the food, and would sneak back a few hours later and see most of it was eaten. Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:07:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants. t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now-covering food
Yes, I have some that do it for something 'good' they want to hide, and sometimes for something 'bad' like a hairball or peeing on the rug... You just never know! My latest cat, Mama Kitty, the one who had lived with the ferals, had 2 or 3 litters, and had her stomach 'skinned' while living outside with a feral colony at my sister's (for those of you who remember). She covers things the most. So I do think it has to do with saving/hiding food lots of times.She has taken over for DD (my positive, and next to last kitty brought in). Each of them (and mamma kitty still) will run to EVERY dish of food as I put it out, and slap away any other cat who tries to eat out of it. Then they will settle on oneto eat fromand leave the others alone. DD stopped doing this when Mamma kitty took over for her. Go figure. Mamma kitty will run from dish to dish even if no other cats are hungry enough to come into the room. I'm sure our cats find it humorous if they know how much time we spend trying to figure out what they're thinking!t[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:You should see the way that Ginger scratches and paws next to any food she does not feel like eating, as if to say it is so repulsive she can not bear seeing it and would I PLEASE dispose of it and give her something edible. Ginger stayed at my mom's for a month when we were moving (I had brought her down to NJ from MA with me when my horse in NJ was dying because Ginger was too sick to leave at home, and then she got better at my mom's and stayed there for a month while we moved down to NJ). My mom fed her in a bathroom with a rug (to keep her separate from my mom's negative cat). My mom eventually took up the rug because every time Ginger did not like what my mom offered she pulled up pieces of the rug and covered the food with it! My mom said she finally stopped offering something new every time Ginger did that and just left the food, and would sneak back a few hours later and see most of it was eaten. MichelleIn a message dated 1/23/2006 8:07:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I'm sure it is. lol. And I'm sure my cats' portions don't come out to a cup each. I'm just saying that I think Lucy is eating enough for right now, and I hope Michelle is just being overly worried for no reasonwhile Lucy is snickering behind her back waiting to get the food she wants.t
Re: Lucy-- refusing raw food now
I know, I have thought of that. But if I give her something that she actually wants to eat, she eats it and does not cover it. If I cater to her and keep opening things until I hit what she wants, she covers everything up until I hit the right thing and then digs into that one. The fact that I did do this for her more than a few times is probably why she so vigorously does this now-- she has me trained! As long as I know this is what she is doing, I try not to keep opening things these days and just offer her the same thing until she is hungry enough to eat it. I was throwing away a lot of food fora while, thinking she would not eat if I did not give her what she wanted! Michelle In a message dated 1/23/2006 8:30:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another take on this: I deal with a lot of ferals/throw aways/ cats who have had to live on their own. Most of them, even small kittens, try to hide the food they don't want to eat then, when they want it, they can come back and get it. I have a feral in the garage that does this, even with food she loves. My indoor cat, Dixie Louise, a throwaway, does this. All of them are very intent when they are covering the food, using anything they can or nothing to protect the food. I have seen them use their toys and beddingcovers. It may be a repressed instinct. Like dogs burying bones. Remember howmuch effort they put into covering in their litter boxes.
