Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Lee Evans 
Not sure I could make my own soy milk.  I don't much like milk with cat fur in 
it.  I have almost 40 cats here at any given time, mostly elderly or socially 
or physically handicapped and I can't keep them off counters.  My house was not 
well organized due to a little mistake in planning.  Actually big mistake in 
planning when I moved in so I will, at some future date have to readjust and 
then maybe cooking and cleaning will be a whole lot easier but right now I'm 
concentrating on keeping my head above the financial waters. Hey I forgot about 
the AETA that good ole G Dubya passed.  Just talk against anything in the food 
industry and you've had it.  Fortunately, it hasn't been enforced under Pres. 
Obama but Romney, should we have the misfortune of 4 years of him will be able 
to fill the prisons with people who won't eat fried chicken.  Sigh.  Is this a 
wonderful country or what!  Incidentally I supported Kucinich when he made his 
short run for
 President.  Angels from Heaven are rarely elected.  He's a wonderful, 
thoughtful, intelligent and logical man.

I actually think it's more humane, if someone is a good shot, to kill a deer 
then what is done to the bovine population in factory farming but I don't feel 
that we need to eat animals.  We are omnivores and have a choice.


 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!





 From: Natalie 
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org 
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 9:36 AM
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW:  Bow hunting
 

Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better now, as 
far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful 
thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, 
under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can 
make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.
I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on 
the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.
However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am 
immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than 
venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me 
of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t 
kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.
I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every 
kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  - yes, 
I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making my own 
soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought.
From:Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
 
When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal 
rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some as if I 
were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still 
others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat.  I 
ask back what did she think they ate and she said, "Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, 
you know, vegetables."  I told her that she had probably mistaken us for 
rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to 
her.  She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my 
nose right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy 
either.  Some years later, I met her again.  She asked after my cats, found 
that I had as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  
I told her I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a 
vegetarian because of all the horrid
 things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed.  I think that if 
you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your belief is 
rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most people to see 
your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying especially if that 
belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.
 
 
Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!
 
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Natalie 
Fruitarians – fruit fall off when ripe, eat only raw foods.  

I eat root vegetables, too much nutrition in them not to, especially beets – I 
couldn’t live without them.

There are actually people who live on energy (Hunzas) – breatherians!

 

Yes, I’ve heard of the book!  Good idea – it’s really frustrating when really 
good friends continue to eat meat, and order horrible things like veal when you 
go out with them, and then have the nerve to ask, you wanna taste it (even 
worse, forgetting that we haven’t eaten meat for almost 30 years?)  One good 
fiend never orders meat when we go out…..

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Kathryn Hargreaves
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 10:52 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

 

The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't get 
killed.  After I read this, I quit eating root veggies.   On the other hand, 
they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA, except they 
don't kill them.

 

Have you seen this book?   It may be a key to helping transition more people 
away from eating meat:  
http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8
 
<http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349362032&sr=8-1&keywords=american+vegan>
 &qid=1349362032&sr=8-1&keywords=american+vegan

 

 

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie  wrote:

Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better now, as 
far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another wonderful 
thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only six members, 
under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was Kucinich!) – which can 
make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.

I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is well on 
the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.

However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am 
immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than 
venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing me 
of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I shouldn’t 
kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.

I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every 
kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  - yes, 
I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making my own 
soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of store-bought.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lee 
Evans
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting

 

When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an animal 
rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some as if I 
were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others, ignored by still 
others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what vegetarians eat.  I 
ask back what did she think they ate and she said, "Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, 
you know, vegetables."  I told her that she had probably mistaken us for 
rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the tofu and soy protocol to her. 
 She wrinkled her nose and said that this can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my nose 
right back at her and said that eating a dead animal isn't healthy either.  
Some years later, I met her again.  She asked after my cats, found that I had 
as many as I originally had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  I told her 
I was and she said the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because 
of all the horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed. 
 I think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your 
belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most 
people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying 
especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.

 

 

Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty neighbors 
too!

 


___
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Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
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-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

 

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their 
life.  Contact your local pound for information. 

 

If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and to 
free up cage space.

 


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by 
implementing the No Kill E

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-04 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves 
The Jains eat only things that fall from the plants, so the plants don't
get killed.  After I read this, I quit eating root veggies.   On the other
hand, they do not believe in keeping pets, much along the lines of PeTA,
except they don't kill them.

Have you seen this book?   It may be a key to helping transition more
people away from eating meat:
http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Vegan-Veganism-Rest/dp/0979074339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349362032&sr=8-1&keywords=american+vegan


On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Natalie  wrote:

> Tell me about being treated as a terrorist!  It has become much better
> now, as far as the general population goes, however, AETA, that’s another
> wonderful thing…. (Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act of 2006, passed by only
> six members, under GWB, and the only one who voted against it was
> Kucinich!) – which can make any of us terrorists because of its broad range.
> 
>
> I agree…two cat helper who work here have become vegetarian, and one is
> well on the way to being vegan. It was by example, and discussion.
>
> However, whenever the debate on hunting comes up, and I have many, I am
> immediately accused of eating meat and that it’s not any different than
> venison..when they find out that I do not eat any meat, they start accusing
> me of killing vegetables, that if that’s how I feel about killing, I
> shouldn’t kill them either.  It’s just a distraction, of course.
>
> I am also asked what I eat, and believe me, we use a lot of beans of every
> kind, we don’t suffer from boredom nor do we give up on delicious food  -
> yes, I cook a lot, and I love making up new dishes.  I even started making
> my own soy milk, which is easy and better without all the additives of
> store-bought.
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Lee Evans
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 04, 2012 9:54 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> When I first joined the animal welfare movement, I was and still am an
> animal rights activist, vegan by ethics and choice.  I was treated by some
> as if I were a terrorist, barely tolerated by them, feared by others,
> ignored by still others.  Finally, one of the fearful people asked me what
> vegetarians eat.  I ask back what did she think they ate and she said,
> "Cabbage, carrots, lettuce, you know, vegetables."  I told her that she had
> probably mistaken us for rabbits.  Then I explained the bean protocol, the
> tofu and soy protocol to her.  She wrinkled her nose and said that this
> can't be healthy.  I wrinkled my nose right back at her and said that
> eating a dead animal isn't healthy either.  Some years later, I met her
> again.  She asked after my cats, found that I had as many as I originally
> had, then asked me if I were still a vegan.  I told her I was and she said
> the she wasn't yet a vegan but she was a vegetarian because of all the
> horrid things she had heard about how meat was raised and processed.  I
> think that if you are polite and courteous and patient with people and your
> belief is rational, logical and legitimate, you can eventually educate most
> people to see your way of thinking as acceptable and even worth trying
> especially if that belief gets enough press coverage and publicity.
>
> ** **
>
>  
>
> *Spay and Neuter your cats and dogs and your weird relatives and nasty
> neighbors too!*
>
> ** **
>
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/no-kill-equation/

Here's the current growing list of true No Kill communities:
http://www.nokillhouston.org/no-kill-shelters-in-north-america/

Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org

More fun reading: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/shelter-reform/guides/

More fun watching: http://vimeo.com/nokill/videos especially
http://vimeo.com/48445902



Local feral cat crisis?   See Alley Cat Allies' for how to respond:
http://www.alleycat.org/page.aspx?pid=537
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Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Bow hunting

2012-10-03 Thread Kathryn Hargreaves 
Does this happen with all species?

I think the best thing to do is leave animals alone, too, but when feral
cats bother people to the point where they are going to kill them, it's
probably better to try to get numbers down.   I prefer the methods some
used with wolves, doing tubal ligations/vasectomies instead of messing with
their hormones by taking out the sex organs.  That said, we're real good at
exterminating species, so I hope that doesn't happen with companion animals.


On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 9:09 PM, GRAS  wrote:

> *It’s really interesting because when, and that’s rarely, that they reach
> a biological carrying capacity (or in a severe winter and no food), sperm
> counts go down and females, in real dire situations, will actually absorb
> their fetuses.  Also, people mistake deer as starving in the winter because
> they may seem thin, ribs showing, it’s only that thyroxin (a calcium-rich
> hormone) regulates their metabolisms in cold weather….even iof a lot of
> food were available, they might not be able to absorb all the nutrition.*
>
> *The best thing is to leave them alone – thousands of years, and they
> have been able to regulate themselves until commercial hunting almost wiped
> them out at the end of the last century, and states had to start managing
> them to bring back the herds – then they found out what a big business it
> can be (hunting licenses, P-R Act, etc)- now they manage for MSY.*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:12 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> ** **
>
> Yes, I've heard from wildlife experts that the population of all species
> will level off at the carrying capacity (food, shelter) of the habitat,
> despite predation (of any sort).   This is why if you want to reduce a
> species' population, you have to sterilize and return, so the sterilized
> ones take up some of that capacity.
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Natalie  wrote:
>
> *No, they wouldn’t reproduce the same way, that’s the whole point!
> According to research on reproduction, hunted herds twin only 14%, while
> hunted herds twin or even triple at 38%.  It’s just nature’s way!  In fact,
> predators are better hunters because they go for the sick and old animals,
> while hunters avoid them, thereby actually degrading the gene pool –
> healthier animals are not the result of hunting – that’s done at deer farms
> by mating the best with the best specimen, producing fantastic trophy
> animals.*
>
> *No, I do not eat any meat.*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 2:44 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> I agree with you, but what would happen if we didn't have a hunting
> season, do you think they would not still reproduce like they do now? To
> each their own, again, I'm just thankful for the life of a deer, and the
> people who do purchase linceses as this money is put back into the wild
> life. The funding from licenses and tags is used to insure a healthy
> population of wildlife in the states, including the DNR to enforce the
> rules... I take it you don't eat meat Natalie?
>
> *It may provide your family with meat, BUT, technically, hunting doesn’t
> really lower deer populations except in the immediate aftermath of a cull.
> Next year, there will be the same number of deer, if not more, because
> hunting encourages and spurs reproduction through compensatory rebound and
> because states manage deer for MSY (maximum sustained yield).  I’m sure
> that you will notice that the population doesn’t really go down in the long
> run.  I have made it my business to learn as much as I can about deer
> biology/reproduction.  Natalie*
>
> *From:* Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Joslin Potter
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2012 9:48 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] Bow hunting
>
> I'm thankful for deer season, it provides my family with meat, as well as
> keeping population under control. -Joslin
>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
>
>


-- 

Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal!

If you can't adopt, then foster "bottle baby" shelter animal, to save their
life.  Contact your local pound for information.


If you can't bottle feed, foster an older animal, to save their life, and
to free up cage space.


Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by
implementing the No Kill Equation:
http://www.nokilladv