[Finale] Microsoft SP2 update and Win Finale 2005

[drjazz00]

Has anyone installed SP2 after Winfin 2005 has been installed...  If so, are
there any problems with Winfin 2005 after installing SP2???

Thanks...


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Re: [Finale] Ties

[Mark D Lew]

And: forgot to mention this: options/doc. opt./music spacing/minimum
distance between tied notes...

Do you have a suggestion for what a good setting for that would be?
I use 48 evpu.  That's assuming zero for H Tie Placement for inner ties.
mdl
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Re: AW: [Finale] new copy behavior

[Lon Price]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:05 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

Well, what exactly is the work around then??
In a copy of the score used only for part extraction, convert *all* 
measure expressions to note expressions before extracting parts.  
(Turning on "Show expressions for extracted parts" helps here.)

(I didn't say it was a *good* workaround... but does anyone else have 
a better idea?)

- Darcy
In my situation, in which I'm copying and pasting music within the same 
file, it seems to me that the easiest workaround is to wait until all 
music is entered, and all copying and pasting is done, before entering 
any measure expressions.  Of course, if a subsequent copy-paste edit is 
required, then I'm stuck having to delete unwanted measure expressions.

Lon Price, Los Angeles
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Darcy James Argue]

On 06 Sep 2004, at 05:11 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Ah, that's a lot more clear. "Maximise" actually means "make it as 
small as possible and still show everything." D'oh!

And yet (replying to myself) in Finale, hitting the green button make 
the window full screen, no matter the size of the page. Grr.
Different apps handle the maximize button differently in different 
contexts, which is IMO as it should be.  (Safari has by far the most 
elegant interpretation.)  But Finale's maximize button has always made 
the window go full screen, in both OS 9 and OS X.  I'm fine with that, 
because most of the time, most users will want all of Finale document 
windows to be maximized, and it would be a pain for Coda to make the 
button behave differently in Page View and Scroll View.

(Mail behaves in a similar way -- the maximize button cycles between 
"full screen" and "last manually selected window size.")

- Darcy
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Brooklyn, NY
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Re: [Finale] Ties

[Jane Frasier]

Do you have a suggestion for what a good setting for that would be?
Jane
On Sep 6, 2004, at 1:28 PM, Klaas de Jong wrote:
And: forgot to mention this: options/doc. opt./music spacing/minimum
distance between tied notes...
cheers.
kdj
From: Klaas de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:44:18 +0200
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Finale] Ties
Hello Jane,
I would make the measures a bit larger, apart from: document/tie 
options,
mass edit/change ties and/or special tools/tie tool.

From: Jane Frasier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 19:19:14 -0600
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Finale] Ties
Thanks for the ideas. The first suggestion about music spacing 
options
didn't make any difference.

I tried a few things with the tie options but didn't get any better
results. Here are links to a couple examples. If anyone has any 
ideas I
would appreciate it.

http://janefrasier.com/misc/example1.pdf and
http://janefrasier.com/misc/example2.pdf.
Thanks.
Jane
On Sep 3, 2004, at 10:46 PM, Mark D Lew wrote:
On Sep 3, 2004, at 7:26 PM, Jane Frasier wrote:
I am using Finale 2004 on Mac, OS 10.3.5.  It seems like ties in 
the
piece I am working on look awful. If I have chord of 3 notes tied,
the middle tie is way too narrow. Also if a chord with 4 notes, 
with
the interval of a second in the middle, the middle ties are
misplaced. Has any one else seen this? Is there a cure?
For the middle tie being too short, the setting you need to change 
is
under Music Spacing Options (Options > Document Settings > Music
Spacing Options*.  Change the value for "Minimum Distance Between
Notes with Ties" to something larger.  The tie is going to squeeze
itself into whatever space there is, but this value makes sure that
when the music is spaced it leaves enough room for a longer tie.

The rest of the settings you want are under Options > Document
Settings > Tie Options*. I've been using my own Tie Option settings
for so long that I don't even remember what values are set in the
default templates, but I vaguely recall being dissatisfied with 
them.

I'm not sure what you mean by the middle ties being misplaced.  If
you're unhappy with the choices of over vs under, try a different
selection under Tie Direction > Chords.  The three options are three
different algorithms for determining up or down for the ties in the
middle of the chord.  Perhaps the rule you consider correct is not 
the
same one you have selected.

Lots of other tie settings you twiddle with there.  Even when you 
get
the settings you like best, there will still be cases where you have
to adjust them manually to get it just right.

mdl
* I'm on Fin Mac 2k2s. The menu locations may be a little different 
in
whatever version you're on, but the same panels will be there
somewhere.

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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 3:43 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Sep 6, 2004, at 2:39 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
In Preview, the green maximize button zooms the window width to fit 
the width of the document at your current magnification level -- 
which is completely consistent with the way this button has always 
worked on the Mac, even in OS 9.  For instance, in both the OS 9 and 
OS X finders, clicking the maximize button on a Finder window will 
*not* make the window zoom to the full size of the screen -- it will 
zoom to the smallest size window that will show all the icons in the 
current folder.

So, if you increase the magnification in Preview (cmd-click the 
toolbar to customize it and add the "Scale" field), then click the 
maximize button, it will do the same thing -- it will give you the 
smallest possible window that still fits the whole page on screen.  
If the magnification is too big to fit the whole page on screen, it 
will give you the smallest possible window that still fits the width 
of the document (so you only have to scroll up and down).  If you set 
the magnification so big that you can't fit either the height or the 
width, it will zoom to full screen and do the best it can.


Ah, that's a lot more clear. "Maximise" actually means "make it as 
small as possible and still show everything." D'oh!

And yet (replying to myself) in Finale, hitting the green button make 
the window full screen, no matter the size of the page. Grr.

Christopher
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Re: [Finale] Spacing problem WinFin2k3

[Klaas de Jong]

Hello Michael,
You should experiment with the values in:
options/doc.options/music spacing/spacing widths.
I could replicate your results in finmac2k3, when the the bottom button was
activated and the reference value was 1024; making this smaller, 512 gave an
acceptable result and also choosing the upper button in this dialog window
was o.k.
Apparently the values of these options work against an automatic broadening
of your example measures in 6/8 time.
Making the measures larger, making more room for everything, also works.
hope this helps,
klaas de jong.

> From: "Michael Withers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 16:37:39 +0100
> To: "Finale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [Finale] Spacing problem WinFin2k3
> 
> Dear list experts,
> 
> I'd be very grateful if anyone can find the time to take a quick look at
> this spacing example:
> 
> http://www.michaelwithers.f2s.com/SpacingTest.gif
> 
> I guess we're all fairly used to some of Finale's quirks in spacing
> accidentals in layers, but I'm at a loss to know what is causing the two
> problems in this example.
> 
> In bar 4, the Layer 2 Bb is touching the second note in Layer 1. I would
> have expected the spacing algorithm to add some space there.
> 
> The Layer 2 spacing in bar 5 is simply dreadful, and I cannot see what
> is causing it. The file was clean, and there are no extra layers or
> hidden layers. 
> 
> Is this just my system or can anyone else replicate it? (I've tried it
> on two PCs and it's exactly the same on each). If it's a genuine spacing
> problem in Finale, can anyone suggest a workaround that will provide a
> satisfactory spacing without the need to hand-tweak every occurrence?
> 
> Very grateful for any help.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Michael Withers
> 
> 
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Re: [Finale] FinMac2K4c PDF Mystery

[Eric Dannewitz]

First, make sure he has a current version of Acrobat. At least version 5.
Second, make sure you have all the fonts installed on Finale 2004. They 
had an update to fix PDF printing. If you do a preview, that should give 
you an idea of what it looks like. And if you open the PDF you print 
with the Preview program, you can see if it printed correctly.

And if it did, I'd suspect the person you emailed it to has some 
problems with the Acrobat reader...

Neal Gittleman wrote:
Here's an interesting one...
I'm working on a project in FinMac2k4c running on System 10.3.5.   I'm 
currently without a printer, so created a PDF via OSX's "Save as PDF" 
option and e-mailed that file to my orchestra librarian for him to 
print out on his printer.  When he did, every empty bar printed out 
with a 16th-note rest instead of a whole rest in it.  (The piece is in 
2/4 and the PDF file itself -- on my computer, at least -- looks 
perfectly fine.)

Any ideas?
ng
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Re: AW: [Finale] new copy behavior

[Darcy James Argue]

Okay, there seems to be a lot of confusion here.  I did not understand 
the extent of the problem when I first posted, because Chuck and Lon 
were talking about two different things.  Chuck was talking about 
copying from one Finale document to another, and Lon was talking about 
copying within a single Finale document.

When copying from one document to another, it has *always* been the 
case that staff lists do not transfer -- even when copying one staff 
only, all of the measure expressions will be copied into the new 
document, regardless of which staff they were originally assigned to.  
That's something Finale 2005 was supposed to fix.

Apparently, when fixing this, they broke copying *within* a document -- 
which I have not seen myself yet, but if it's as Lon describes, I agree 
it's very bad and ought to be fixed soon.

In the meanwhile:
On 06 Sep 2004, at 03:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, what exactly is the work around then??
In a copy of the score used only for part extraction, convert *all* 
measure expressions to note expressions before extracting parts.  
(Turning on "Show expressions for extracted parts" helps here.)

(I didn't say it was a *good* workaround... but does anyone else have a 
better idea?)

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY

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[Finale] FinMac2K4c PDF Mystery

[Neal Gittleman]

Here's an interesting one...
I'm working on a project in FinMac2k4c running on System 10.3.5.   I'm 
currently without a printer, so created a PDF via OSX's "Save as PDF" 
option and e-mailed that file to my orchestra librarian for him to 
print out on his printer.  When he did, every empty bar printed out 
with a 16th-note rest instead of a whole rest in it.  (The piece is in 
2/4 and the PDF file itself -- on my computer, at least -- looks 
perfectly fine.)

Any ideas?
ng
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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 2:39 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
On 06 Sep 2004, at 02:21 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
Preview also opens PDFs in a three-inch window (in Panther on my 
machine), which I have to resize manually every time. I can't find a 
way to change this behaviour.
Preview -> Preferences -> PDF -> Default Document Scale.  Change to 
whatever you like -- for instance, "Scale Width to Fit Display".


Thanks! I should have known to look for that.

In Preview, the green maximize button zooms the window width to fit 
the width of the document at your current magnification level -- which 
is completely consistent with the way this button has always worked on 
the Mac, even in OS 9.  For instance, in both the OS 9 and OS X 
finders, clicking the maximize button on a Finder window will *not* 
make the window zoom to the full size of the screen -- it will zoom to 
the smallest size window that will show all the icons in the current 
folder.

So, if you increase the magnification in Preview (cmd-click the 
toolbar to customize it and add the "Scale" field), then click the 
maximize button, it will do the same thing -- it will give you the 
smallest possible window that still fits the whole page on screen.  If 
the magnification is too big to fit the whole page on screen, it will 
give you the smallest possible window that still fits the width of the 
document (so you only have to scroll up and down).  If you set the 
magnification so big that you can't fit either the height or the 
width, it will zoom to full screen and do the best it can.


Ah, that's a lot more clear. "Maximise" actually means "make it as 
small as possible and still show everything." D'oh!

Thanks a lot for the clarification.
Christopher
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Re: [Finale] Ties

[Klaas de Jong]

And: forgot to mention this: options/doc. opt./music spacing/minimum
distance between tied notes...
cheers.
kdj

> From: Klaas de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:44:18 +0200
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Ties
> 
> Hello Jane,
> 
> I would make the measures a bit larger, apart from: document/tie options,
> mass edit/change ties and/or special tools/tie tool.
> 
>> From: Jane Frasier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 19:19:14 -0600
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: Re: [Finale] Ties
>> 
>> Thanks for the ideas. The first suggestion about music spacing options
>> didn't make any difference.
>> 
>> I tried a few things with the tie options but didn't get any better
>> results. Here are links to a couple examples. If anyone has any ideas I
>> would appreciate it.
>> 
>> http://janefrasier.com/misc/example1.pdf and
>> http://janefrasier.com/misc/example2.pdf.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Jane
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 3, 2004, at 10:46 PM, Mark D Lew wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 3, 2004, at 7:26 PM, Jane Frasier wrote:
>>> 
 I am using Finale 2004 on Mac, OS 10.3.5.  It seems like ties in the
 piece I am working on look awful. If I have chord of 3 notes tied,
 the middle tie is way too narrow. Also if a chord with 4 notes, with
 the interval of a second in the middle, the middle ties are
 misplaced. Has any one else seen this? Is there a cure?
>>> 
>>> For the middle tie being too short, the setting you need to change is
>>> under Music Spacing Options (Options > Document Settings > Music
>>> Spacing Options*.  Change the value for "Minimum Distance Between
>>> Notes with Ties" to something larger.  The tie is going to squeeze
>>> itself into whatever space there is, but this value makes sure that
>>> when the music is spaced it leaves enough room for a longer tie.
>>> 
>>> The rest of the settings you want are under Options > Document
>>> Settings > Tie Options*. I've been using my own Tie Option settings
>>> for so long that I don't even remember what values are set in the
>>> default templates, but I vaguely recall being dissatisfied with them.
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure what you mean by the middle ties being misplaced.  If
>>> you're unhappy with the choices of over vs under, try a different
>>> selection under Tie Direction > Chords.  The three options are three
>>> different algorithms for determining up or down for the ties in the
>>> middle of the chord.  Perhaps the rule you consider correct is not the
>>> same one you have selected.
>>> 
>>> Lots of other tie settings you twiddle with there.  Even when you get
>>> the settings you like best, there will still be cases where you have
>>> to adjust them manually to get it just right.
>>> 
>>> mdl
>>> 
>>> * I'm on Fin Mac 2k2s. The menu locations may be a little different in
>>> whatever version you're on, but the same panels will be there
>>> somewhere.
>>> 
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>> 
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AW: [Finale] new copy behavior

[lists]

> 
> On 06 Sep 2004, at 10:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > This is complete nonsense! There are very good reasons to use measure
> > attached expressions with stafflists. Anywhere where you want an
> > expression to appear on different staves in the score and the parts
> > measure attached expressions are in fact very important.
> 
> > My tempo indications like "Allegro" etc all are measure attached with
a
> > stafflist that places them on the top part in the score, plus the top
> > string part in some cases, or perhaps the piano part, all depending
on
> > circumstances. In the parts they print out on every part. I could not
> > imagine doing this in complex scores with note attached expressions!
> 
> Ahem.  If you'll look at what I wrote:
> 
> >> Probably the best workaround is to stop using measure-attached
> >> expressions entirely,
> 
> [pay attention now... ]
> 
> >> except for expressions you want to appear in
> >> *every* part.
> 
> Like, say, tempo indications.  Or rehearsal letters.  Etc.

Well, what exactyly is the work around then?? It is precisely for these
situations that we need measure expressions, and we need to be able to
copy correctly too. So the workaround for problems with measure
expressions is to use them only in the situation they are designed for,
even though that's where they now cause problems? I can't follow you...

Plus, there are situations where you don't want certain measure
expressions to appear in *every* part, I have lot's of such situations.
Measure expressions are still the vastly superior solution when you want
them to appear in some parts in the score, and in an other combination of
parts in the parts. And they are useful even in situations where they
appear on the same set of parts, since it is much easier to change their
assignment later than it is with note expressions (which you basically
have to delete and reenter on a one by one basis).

So I agree fully that any problems with measure expressions must be fixed.
The workaround of not using them (should I add except in the situations
where you need to use them, even though the problem doesn't go away) is
not really an answer.

Johannes
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Re: [Finale] more OSX annoyances

[David W. Fenton]

On 6 Sep 2004 at 5:38, Dennis W. Manasco wrote:

> As far as I can tell your work with Finale is the most important thing
> that you do with your computer. Placing your Finale data files in your
> root directory allows you to select them for work or backup with a
> minimal number of clicks -- just double-click on your hard disk and
> it's there; a second double-click gives you full access to the folder.

Um, if everything is under your ~user folder, then all you have 
backup is the ~user folder and all of its contents. If some of your 
data and settings are in you ~user folder and some of it in different 
locations (such as folders in the root of your system volume), then 
you have multiple locations to back up.

This has zilch to do with permissions, specifically, but one of the 
reasons for the ~user structure that is the default for UNIXen is 
that the OS began life as a true multi-user system, with dozens or 
even hundreds of people logging in simultaneously to a single 
machine. Each user then needed their own home folders. They also 
needed to be given vastly reduced permissions so that they couldn't 
damage the system itself, since it was being relied on by dozens of 
people. You could do anything to the files in your own user space, 
intentionally or accidentally, but not to anything outside that.

For single-user computers it would seem at first glance that this 
method of organizing files and assigning permissions is really 
inapplicable, but that's only when you forget that every computer, 
even if it has a single user, has multiple roles that are required 
for using and administering the computer. When you're installing 
software or hardware, you put on your Administrator hat. When you're 
just working, you're wearing your User hat. When you're working as a 
user, you don't really need administrative permissions -- you only 
need access to the files in your user space. 

And that means that you can't accidentally damage the system.

On Windows, running under user permissions means that if you stupidly 
release some kind of virus or worm or Trojan, it can only damage your 
user files and not infect the system itself.

Of course, most Windows users end up running with Administrative 
permissions because the Windows setup stupidly encourages that, so 
that's why the junk spreads so widely.

But the principle is the same:

Use different logons for different roles.

It seems to me that Andrew's problems stem from OS 9 transition 
issues. If Andrew adapted his file organization to the new OS, he'd 
no longer have permission problems.

I have to fight this fight with my Windows clients all the time, so I 
know that Andrew sees this as his OS forcing him to change his 
working habits. But I would say that the old OS was allowing him to 
do things that were bad, simply because the old OS (OS 9, like non-NT 
versions of Windows) did not allow for the proper segregation of user 
roles and permissions. In short, it was Windows9x and Mac OS that 
were flawed in not being designed with some degree of security and 
role/permission segration in their basic architecture.

Now with OS X and Windows NT (Win2K, WinXP), we all have proper 
modern OS's that allow us to operate in a much safer, more secure and 
more reliable computing environment. My clients adapted to the new 
ways long ago, as soon as they acquired NT-based versions of Windows. 
It has mostly been a non-issue, though some of them are still annoyed 
at having to log on.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Darcy James Argue]

On 06 Sep 2004, at 02:21 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Sep 6, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Well, Preview is is the default PDF reader in OS X because Preview is 
far, far superior to Adobe Acrobat/Adobe Reader, which has become 
atrocious bloatware.  Preview launches quickly and renders pages 
quickly -- like, about *ten times* faster than Adobe Reader 6.  On 
the other hand, Adobe Reader features exciting advertisements for 
eBooks.

Preview also opens PDFs in a three-inch window (in Panther on my 
machine), which I have to resize manually every time. I can't find a 
way to change this behaviour.
Preview -> Preferences -> PDF -> Default Document Scale.  Change to 
whatever you like -- for instance, "Scale Width to Fit Display".

And bloatware or not, I sometimes need the special features in Reader.
Such as?  (Just curious... )
Preview simply moves the tiny window to the upper left of my screen. 
How is this button supposed to function?
In Preview, the green maximize button zooms the window width to fit the 
width of the document at your current magnification level -- which is 
completely consistent with the way this button has always worked on the 
Mac, even in OS 9.  For instance, in both the OS 9 and OS X finders, 
clicking the maximize button on a Finder window will *not* make the 
window zoom to the full size of the screen -- it will zoom to the 
smallest size window that will show all the icons in the current 
folder.

So, if you increase the magnification in Preview (cmd-click the toolbar 
to customize it and add the "Scale" field), then click the maximize 
button, it will do the same thing -- it will give you the smallest 
possible window that still fits the whole page on screen.  If the 
magnification is too big to fit the whole page on screen, it will give 
you the smallest possible window that still fits the width of the 
document (so you only have to scroll up and down).  If you set the 
magnification so big that you can't fit either the height or the width, 
it will zoom to full screen and do the best it can.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Well, Preview is is the default PDF reader in OS X because Preview is 
far, far superior to Adobe Acrobat/Adobe Reader, which has become 
atrocious bloatware.  Preview launches quickly and renders pages 
quickly -- like, about *ten times* faster than Adobe Reader 6.  On the 
other hand, Adobe Reader features exciting advertisements for eBooks.

Preview also opens PDFs in a three-inch window (in Panther on my 
machine), which I have to resize manually every time. I can't find a 
way to change this behaviour.

And bloatware or not, I sometimes need the special features in Reader. 
I agree that it is slow and, well, slow.

And speaking of Panther (and OSX in general) I have been using almost 
exclusively Panther for the last month, (after resisting for a long 
time) and I can't understand one aspect of the interface. The green 
button you see in the upper left hand corner of the window is supposed 
to be the Maximise button. Yet I get all kinds of strange window sizes 
when I click it (depending on the app), many of which could not 
logically be called "Maximum" size. Safari, for example, will NOT grow 
to screen size on an empty window. Preview simply moves the tiny window 
to the upper left of my screen. How is this button supposed to 
function?

Christopher
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Re: [Finale] Spacing problem WinFin2k3

[Mark D Lew]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 8:37 AM, Michael Withers wrote:
I guess we're all fairly used to some of Finale's quirks in spacing
accidentals in layers, but I'm at a loss to know what is causing the 
two
problems in this example.

In bar 4, the Layer 2 Bb is touching the second note in Layer 1. I 
would
have expected the spacing algorithm to add some space there.

The Layer 2 spacing in bar 5 is simply dreadful, and I cannot see what
is causing it. The file was clean, and there are no extra layers or
hidden layers.
Finale is doing two separate actions in your example.  One is the 
regular music spacing, which looks at the music and adjusts the beat 
chart or note chart accordingly, hoping to come up with optimal 
spacing.  The second is offsetting one layer where simultaneous notes 
in separate layers form a second.

For the first, regular music spacing, Finale looks at each layer 
individually and figures how much space is needed for each, then picks 
the largest in order to accommodate all layers.  It does not look at 
collisions between one layer and another.  This is a weakness, sure, 
but I've come to view it as normal behavior.  (I'm still on 2k2; 
perhaps it has improved since then.)  In your bar 4, Finale thinks that 
layer 1 is sufficiently spaced and layer 2 is sufficiently spaced; it 
has no idea that a note from layer 2 is too close to a note from layer 
one.  So that's normal.

Adjusting notes for seconds is not done in the beat chart at all; 
rather, it is an offset implemented at the same level that you can 
access with the Note Position special tool.  Finale's implementation of 
this is imperfect.  For ordinary seconds it does a good job, but if 
other things are involved, like dots or accidentals, sometimes it gets 
confused and moves it too far.  That's what's going on in your bar 5.

Is this just my system or can anyone else replicate it? (I've tried it
on two PCs and it's exactly the same on each).
I got the exact same result in Fin Mac 2k2.  I was a little surprised, 
since it doesn't seem like such an unusual situation.  I'm not 
surprised that Finale tried to push the note past the dot, but I 
wouldn't have expected it to push it so far beyond it.

If it's a genuine spacing
problem in Finale, can anyone suggest a workaround that will provide a
satisfactory spacing without the need to hand-tweak every occurrence?
Well, I don't know of anything really easy, but my usual approach in 
situations like these is to enter the music in a way that will make the 
beat chart space like I need it to, then space the measures, then alter 
the music back to what it's supposed to be and don't respace it again 
after that.  (Of course if you use automatic spacing, that won't 
work)

In your examples, adding a note to the chord to create a displaced 
notehead in the right place will provide the amount of space you want.  
For example, in your bar 4, add a D to the first chord in the upstem 
voice.  The D notehead will occupy pretty much the same space that you 
know you'll need for the downstem B, so when you space the bar it will 
end up where you want it.  Then remove the D.  Same idea in bar 5, 
where you can add a D to the first chord in the downstem voice.  You 
can devise similar tricks for other situations.

In all of these cases, that only takes care of the beat chart.  You 
still need to deal with the Note Position offsets yourself. Use the 
Note Position tool for that.  If you want consistent positioning (me, 
I'm a stickler for that), set up a sample bar of simple situations and 
take note of how much offset spacing Finale gives it.   For example, I 
know that my Finale offsets a basic second by 29 evpu.  (I think of 
that as standard, but possibly it's dependent on the fonts and/or 
settings I use.)  I've got a little chart of values I use for other 
situations.

Kind of a pain, I know, but you get used to it.  If anyone out there 
has a better system, I'd be happy to hear about it.

mdl
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Re: [Finale] Spacing problem WinFin2k3

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 11:37 AM, Michael Withers wrote:
Dear list experts,
I'd be very grateful if anyone can find the time to take a quick look 
at
this spacing example:

http://www.michaelwithers.f2s.com/SpacingTest.gif
I guess we're all fairly used to some of Finale's quirks in spacing
accidentals in layers, but I'm at a loss to know what is causing the 
two
problems in this example.

In bar 4, the Layer 2 Bb is touching the second note in Layer 1. I 
would
have expected the spacing algorithm to add some space there.


This just looks like the system is a bit too cramped. Opening up the 
measure width should help. Or failing that, apply my solution below to 
that measure and see if it helps, as this DOES involve dotted notes 
between layers with more than one note per layer. OTher than that, I'm 
at a loss.


The Layer 2 spacing in bar 5 is simply dreadful, and I cannot see what
is causing it. The file was clean, and there are no extra layers or
hidden layers.
I can help with this one. The algorithm for avoiding collisions between 
layers in Fin2003 is faulty when you have more than one note per layer, 
especially involving dotted notes and note with accidentals (I think 
this bug has been corrected in later versions.) The workaround is as 
follows:

Remove extra notes in the problem chord, so that the interval of a 
second occurs with only ONE note in each layer (in your case, remove 
the Eb from the downbeat.)
Space the measure. The second (with the dotted note and/or accidentals) 
should be properly spaced.
Turn off Auto-Space.
Go back to the measure in question, and add in the missing note. Do not 
respace this measure again.


Is this just my system or can anyone else replicate it? (I've tried it
on two PCs and it's exactly the same on each). If it's a genuine 
spacing
problem in Finale, can anyone suggest a workaround that will provide a
satisfactory spacing without the need to hand-tweak every occurrence?

Very grateful for any help.
Thanks
Michael Withers
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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Darcy James Argue]

Well, Preview is is the default PDF reader in OS X because Preview is 
far, far superior to Adobe Acrobat/Adobe Reader, which has become 
atrocious bloatware.  Preview launches quickly and renders pages 
quickly -- like, about *ten times* faster than Adobe Reader 6.  On the 
other hand, Adobe Reader features exciting advertisements for eBooks.

It's just that the Finale help files aren't compatible with Preview, 
which is unfortunate, because it means I can't get rid of Adobe Reader 
entirely.  So I set *only* the Finale help files to open with Adobe 
Acrobat 5.0 (the last usable version) -- everything else still opens 
with Preview.

- Darcy
-
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Brooklyn, NY
On 06 Sep 2004, at 01:49 PM, Christopher Smith wrote:
On Sep 6, 2004, at 2:22 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Lon,
Have you tried selecting all the User Manual PDF files in the Finder, 
selecting "Get Info," and changing the "Open With" to Adobe Reader 
(/Acrobat Reader)?  If your default PDF reader for these files is 
Preview (instead of Adobe Reader or Acrobat Reader), the help files 
will not open from within Finale.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
Good point. I recently upgraded to Panther, and a bunch of things were 
set by default to open with weird apps. PDFs opening with Preview is 
one example, also all Microsoft Word files started opening by default 
in AppleWorks. Performing the edit you mentioned (and clicking on "use 
this application to open all documents like this> change all..." ) 
saved me a lot of hassle.

Christopher

On 06 Sep 2004, at 02:11 AM, Lon Price wrote:
and oh, by the way: I can't get the User Manual to open in FinMac 
2005.  And before everyone starts spamming me with "select the 
correct folder in the Program Options," I've already done that.  
This is the fifth version that I've bought (since FinMac 2000), so 
I've been around long enough to pretty much know how this thing is 
supposed to work.

Lon Price, Los Angeles
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Finale] semi OT - which soft and fonts used for latest Sher's New Real Books?

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 4:05 AM, themark wrote:

I wonder if someone has investigated and found out which notation software and fonts were used to make those wonderfully written New Real Books from Sher company.
 
I would guess Finale and a mix of fonts (Sigler's swing) or even a custom made set of fonts made for Sher engravers?
 
Who knows more please drop a line.
 
Thank you
 Marcello


I talked to a guy at the Sher Music booth at the International Association for Jazz Education conference to ask him that very question, and he smiled and said "Proprietary fonts. We spent a lot of time, effort and money to create those fonts, and we aren't going to make them available." Dang.

Incidentally, the music and chords in the first volume were hand copied (not the lyrics or titles, obviously.) I was incredulous, as the hand is amazingly consistent, but the later volumes used fonts created by the copyist in a notation program (I think it was Finale.) Just to show that no quantity of special fonts substitutes for a keen eye in the field of music preparation.

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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 6, 2004, at 2:22 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Lon,
Have you tried selecting all the User Manual PDF files in the Finder, 
selecting "Get Info," and changing the "Open With" to Adobe Reader 
(/Acrobat Reader)?  If your default PDF reader for these files is 
Preview (instead of Adobe Reader or Acrobat Reader), the help files 
will not open from within Finale.

- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY
Good point. I recently upgraded to Panther, and a bunch of things were 
set by default to open with weird apps. PDFs opening with Preview is 
one example, also all Microsoft Word files started opening by default 
in AppleWorks. Performing the edit you mentioned (and clicking on "use 
this application to open all documents like this> change all..." ) 
saved me a lot of hassle.

Christopher

On 06 Sep 2004, at 02:11 AM, Lon Price wrote:
and oh, by the way: I can't get the User Manual to open in FinMac 
2005.  And before everyone starts spamming me with "select the 
correct folder in the Program Options," I've already done that.  This 
is the fifth version that I've bought (since FinMac 2000), so I've 
been around long enough to pretty much know how this thing is 
supposed to work.

Lon Price, Los Angeles
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Lon Price]

On Sep 5, 2004, at 11:22 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Lon,
Have you tried selecting all the User Manual PDF files in the Finder, 
selecting "Get Info," and changing the "Open With" to Adobe Reader 
(/Acrobat Reader)?  If your default PDF reader for these files is 
Preview (instead of Adobe Reader or Acrobat Reader), the help files 
will not open from within Finale.

- Darcy
Thanks, Darcy.  That fixed it.  Now, why didn't I think of that?  You 
learn something new every day.

Lon

Lon Price, Los Angeles
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: AW: [Finale] new copy behavior

[Darcy James Argue]

On 06 Sep 2004, at 10:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is complete nonsense! There are very good reasons to use measure
attached expressions with stafflists. Anywhere where you want an
expression to appear on different staves in the score and the parts
measure attached expressions are in fact very important.

My tempo indications like "Allegro" etc all are measure attached with a
stafflist that places them on the top part in the score, plus the top
string part in some cases, or perhaps the piano part, all depending on
circumstances. In the parts they print out on every part. I could not
imagine doing this in complex scores with note attached expressions!
Ahem.  If you'll look at what I wrote:
Probably the best workaround is to stop using measure-attached
expressions entirely,
[pay attention now... ]
except for expressions you want to appear in
*every* part.
Like, say, tempo indications.  Or rehearsal letters.  Etc.
- Darcy
-
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[Finale] Spacing problem WinFin2k3

[Michael Withers]

Dear list experts,

I'd be very grateful if anyone can find the time to take a quick look at
this spacing example:

http://www.michaelwithers.f2s.com/SpacingTest.gif

I guess we're all fairly used to some of Finale's quirks in spacing
accidentals in layers, but I'm at a loss to know what is causing the two
problems in this example.

In bar 4, the Layer 2 Bb is touching the second note in Layer 1. I would
have expected the spacing algorithm to add some space there.

The Layer 2 spacing in bar 5 is simply dreadful, and I cannot see what
is causing it. The file was clean, and there are no extra layers or
hidden layers. 

Is this just my system or can anyone else replicate it? (I've tried it
on two PCs and it's exactly the same on each). If it's a genuine spacing
problem in Finale, can anyone suggest a workaround that will provide a
satisfactory spacing without the need to hand-tweak every occurrence?

Very grateful for any help.

Thanks

Michael Withers


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Re: [Finale] new copy behavior

[Chuck Israels]

Lon, Darcy, Robert, et al,

Sometimes I don't know how to accomplish something in Finale, but I am not so quick to identify my shortcomings as faults in the program.  In this case, Lon has described the aberrant behavior clearly, and it sure is an inconvenient change - and a "bug" in my book.  There have been a few suggestions for working around this, and it can be done, but the workarounds (changing all expressions to Staff Expressions, using Patterson Mass Copy to remove Measure Eapressions) create their own set of problems.  Once you understand the behavior as Lon has described it, there doesn't seem to me to be any better way to deal than to remove the duplicate Measure Expressions "by hand."  There are not that many of them.

I hope this gets repaired soon.

Happy Labor Day.

Chuck



On Sep 5, 2004, at 11:05 PM, Lon Price wrote:

On Sep 5, 2004, at 6:48 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:

On 05 Sep 2004, at 09:42 PM, Lon Price wrote:

What about rehearsal letters that you only want on the top staff of your score, but you want to appear in each part?  In FinMac 2005, those get pasted into every part as well.  In other words, say I have rehearsal letter "A" set up to appear on the top staff at measure 9, and I have a two-bar phrase at letter A that I want to copy and paste into measures 11-12, 13-14 and 15-16 in an inner staff (not the top staff).

Choose "Copy Entry Items" instead of "Copy Everything."

And how come nobody's mentioned this before now?

Because this is the way it's supposed to work.

This is NOT working the way it's supposed to.  Let me describe my actions:

Create a measure expression ("Moderately") that is set for a staff list, appearing only in the top staff in the score, and in each of the extracted parts.  Enter notes, articulations, chords and a note expression (dynamic mark) in the same measure, but in a staff that appears lower in the score.

In Mass Edit, choose "Copy Entry Items", and check chords, articulations and note expressions in the Entry Items menu.  Copy and paste that measure into another measure anywhere in the score, and when you extract the part, you get everything, including the measure expression.  I say that is NOT the way it's supposed to work, and it never "worked" that way before FinMac 2005.  And where in the User Manual does it say that this is the way it's supposed to work?  As far as I can tell, there is never any mention of measure expressions being copied, unless you choose "Copy Measure Items" and then check "Measure Expressions" in the Measure Items menu.  I think Chuck is right about this being a bug in FinMac 2005.

Lon Price, Los Angeles
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Chuck Israels
230 North Garden Terrace
Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
phone (360) 671-3402
fax (360) 676-6055
www.chuckisraels.com
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AW: [Finale] new copy behavior

[lists]

This is complete nonsense! There are very good reasons to use measure
attached expressions with stafflists. Anywhere where you want an
expression to appear on different staves in the score and the parts
measure attached expressions are in fact very important.

My tempo indications like "Allegro" etc all are measure attached with a
stafflist that places them on the top part in the score, plus the top
string part in some cases, or perhaps the piano part, all depending on
circumstances. In the parts they print out on every part. I could not
imagine doing this in complex scores with note attached expressions!

> Probably the best workaround is to stop using measure-attached 
> expressions entirely, except for expressions you want to appear in 
> *every* part.
> 
> Post-2004, there's really no good reason anymore to use Staff Lists 
> instead of note-attached expressions for staff-specific things like 
> dynamics or instrument changes.  They will go in faster with metatoools

> anyway (vs. Staff Lists, which were always cumbersome), and in most 
> cases, positioning will be better.
> 
> (It will be even easier if Coda ever implements my suggestion to make 
> Expression metatools work like Articulation metatools.)
> 
> For older documents, you can use TGTools Modify -> Expressions to 
> change Measure Expressions into Note Expressions.
> 
> - Darcy
> -
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Brooklyn, NY
> 
> On 05 Sep 2004, at 06:41 PM, Chuck Israels wrote:
> 
> > On Sep 5, 2004, at 2:56 PM, Lon Price wrote:
> >
> >> When I perform a Mass Edit copy and paste function in FinMac 2005 I 
> >> find that expressions and repeat text entries get copied and pasted 
> >> along with everything else.  This is new and extremely annoying 
> >> behavior.  An expression that is meant for only a single staff gets 
> >> copied to all staves, requiring me to delete the unwanted 
> >> expressions.  And why should repeat text get copied at all?  A repeat

> >> effects every staff, whether it shows up on every staff or not.  I 
> >> can't find any reference to this behavior in the "What's New" section

> >> of the User Manual.  I how do I keep these annoyances from
happening?
> >> 
> >>
> >
> > This is, in fact, a bug.  I have reported it, and have been told that

> > this will be addressed in a maintenance update.  I hope this turns out

> > to be true, and that it happens quickly.  Choosing "Entries"only, or 
> > any other "workaround" I've attempted has had no effect on this odd 
> > and annoying behavior.  I discovered it soon after installing Mac 2005

> > when I used what used to be an efficient method for creating block 
> > orchestrated parts (where more than one part in a section play similar

> > material with different notes).  I extract the first part, lay it out,

> > then  clear it of entries and re-fill it with entries from related 
> > parts.  This new behavior showed up immediately, and nothing I have 
> > tried seems to control it.  More complaints may get quicker response. 

> > Please join me in bringing this to the attention of the support
folks.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > Chuck Israels
> > 230 North Garden Terrace
> > Bellingham, WA 98225-5836
> > phone (360) 671-3402
> > fax (360) 676-6055
> > www.chuckisraels.com
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Re: [Finale] new behavior

[Godofredo Romero]

Why dont you reinstall your copy of Finale 2005, this cures a lot of 
illnesess.
First uninstall the application.
Godofredo

Lon Price wrote:
and oh, by the way: I can't get the User Manual to open in FinMac 
2005.  And before everyone starts spamming me with "select the correct 
folder in the Program Options," I've already done that.  This is the 
fifth version that I've bought (since FinMac 2000), so I've been 
around long enough to pretty much know how this thing is supposed to 
work.

Lon Price, Los Angeles
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: [Finale] more OSX annoyances

[Dennis W. Manasco]

At 1:32 pm -0400 9/4/04, Andrew Stiller wrote:
One thing you _should_ be actively doing about permissions is repairing them.
...

Thanks very much for this advice.
You're welcome. Having to mess around with permissions repair and 
essential cache deletions aren't things users should have to do 
unless they're actively mucking about with the system at a pretty low 
level, but it's what we're stuck with for now: Sort of a more 
essential variation on the old Desktop-rebuilding theme of yore. 
Hopefully the installation waldoes will get smarter and we'll be able 
to put this behind us for automated updates and double-clickable 
installs.

Part of the problem is that whenever I update a file from Finale 
2K2/OS9 to Finale 2K4/OSX, tight permissions are created for it, 
and I simply don't want or need that kind of security.
Could you be more specific about this problem? Where are the files 
you are reading and where do you put the files you write? What were 
the permissions before and after?
OS9 does not use permissions--at least not for ordinary document 
files. When, in OSX, I use FinMac 2K4 to open (and thereby update) a 
file that was created by FinMac 2K2 in OS9, OSX arbitrarily assigns 
a tight set of permissions for the original file (which had none 
when it was created), so that when I go to save the newly updated 
version, I am told I don't have permission to overwrite the old one. 
This is ridiculous and extremely annoying.
Correct. OS9 does not use permissions (in its default state, nor ever 
in the *nix sense), BUT OSX will have assigned permissions to those 
files and their enclosing folders (if they reside on the boot disk). 
Those permissions will be honored by OSX. (For other disks OSX's 
behavior will depend on the "Ignore..." setting for that disk.)

That is why I asked for specific information about the paths to the 
files. Without that information I can give only generic advice.

n.b.: This advice refers only to your data files. Altering the 
location, permissions or structure of your Finale folder may have 
unintended consequences.

The "best" advice is probably to put all of your Finale data files in 
an enclosing folder in your Home folder (~) and give the entire 
folder and its contents something like rw-r?-??- access (where you 
have to fill in the ?s for your own situation and the useful 
variations are almost endless).

You can create a simulacrum of this by putting all of your Finale 
files in an enclosing folder in your Home folder and doing a get-info 
on them (Command-i). Open the "Ownership and Permissions" triangle 
and set Owner/Access to Read & Write, Group/Access to Read Only (or 
Read & Write) and Others to Read Only (or No Access) and press the 
"Apply to enclosed items" button."

Now, as if that advice wouldn't be subject to endless caveats by *nix 
purists, I'll offer a variation that would get me flamed off of every 
*nix list on the planet:

Do exactly as I have described above, but place the folder that 
encloses your Finale data files in your root directory (one 
double-click below your hard disk icon).

Why do I make such a heretical suggestion?
(Aside the fact that the NExToids want to trap us into using the 
/Applications and ~ folders for everything and I will not abide that 
restriction on my _personal_ computer...)

As far as I can tell your work with Finale is the most important 
thing that you do with your computer. Placing your Finale data files 
in your root directory allows you to select them for work or backup 
with a minimal number of clicks -- just double-click on your hard 
disk and it's there; a second double-click gives you full access to 
the folder.

About 1/3 of the time, when I boot up in OSX Panther, the OS 
immediately attempts to connect to the internet.
...
What I would do is install Little Snitch
...
...
It does seem to me though that the unwanted internet connections 
occur after I go online in OS9, then disconnect and reboot in OSX. 
Does this make any sense?
No. I don't see why booting in OS9 would cause a connection at the 
start of a reboot into OSX.

Are you booting OS9 from the OSX Classic folder or another 
installation? If it's the Classic folder, I can see why this _could_ 
be happening, but I cannot figure a reason. Can you establish 
conclusively that the sequence 'OS9 boot -- OSX boot' will always 
create a connection while alternatives like 'OSX boot -- OSX boot' do 
not?

Also let me know if Little Snitch gives you any clues.
-=-Dennis

btw: Not only do Time and Date and Software Update connect to the 
internet, Help always does as well.
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[Finale] semi OT - which soft and fonts used for latest Sher's New Real Books?

[themark]

I wonder if someone has investigated and found out 
which notation software and fonts were used to make those wonderfully written 
New Real Books from Sher company.
 
I would guess Finale and a mix of fonts (Sigler's 
swing) or even a custom made set of fonts made for Sher engravers?
 
Who knows more please drop a line.
 
Thank you 
Marcello
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