Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[David W. Fenton]

On 28 Sep 2005 at 23:01, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

> On 22:35 Uhr David W. Fenton wrote:
> > Well, it depends on how it's doing it. The only thing I could figure
> > out how to do on the software I downloaded was real-time analysis of
> > something playing on my PC. This, of necessity, would included the
> > basic noise and distortion built into my PC's audio system.
> 
> No it wouldn't. It's analysing the digital code being streamed from
> the soundfile. Unless it is doing something very unusual there is no
> way the audio system inside your PC (which does everything from DA
> conversion onwards, but nothing before it) could have any influence on
> the analysis.

The tools I downloaded all required me to play the file in some other 
program in order to get the waveform (instead of reading it directly 
from the file). This means that those programs were capturing the 
output from my soundcard, which means that this output would include 
the distortion introduced by the sound shape of my soundcard. I saw 
it in the one application, where with no sound playing, there was 
some very low level activity in the extreme ranges of low and high.

I did not find any programs that I could use that would load the 
waveform directly -- all the ones I found captured it from playback.

So, you are simply wrong about what you're saying.

> How else would you analyse a sound file than in realtime? You cannot
> make a frequency analyis without playing the file, since there are no
> frequencies actually recorded in the file, all that is recorded is
> many, many, many snapshots of the soundwave. Any of these snapshots
> only gives the coordinates for a single point of the curve.

But the question is how you convert the digital data into an analog 
waveform. That doesn't have to involve capturing the output of my 
soundcard -- it can be derived from analyzing the actual data itself, 
though, yes, it would need to be done in real time.

> Frequencies only come into play when the soundfile is played back or
> otherwise analysed with respect to time.
> 
> Whatever the software is doing it is definitely dealing with the
> digital data, not with any analogue translation of it.

Sorry, but you are just wrong about this because you are talking 
about what you are familiar with and not the programs that I was able 
to test (as opposed to the ones I couldn't use, such as the ones that 
were packaged as AU plugins).

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[Lee Actor]

> On 22:35 Uhr David W. Fenton wrote:
> > Well, it depends on how it's doing it. The only thing I could figure
> > out how to do on the software I downloaded was real-time analysis of
> > something playing on my PC. This, of necessity, would included the
> > basic noise and distortion built into my PC's audio system.
>
> No it wouldn't. It's analysing the digital code being streamed from the
> soundfile. Unless it is doing something very unusual there is no way the
> audio system inside your PC (which does everything from DA conversion
> onwards, but nothing before it) could have any influence on the analysis.
>
> How else would you analyse a sound file than in realtime? You cannot
> make a frequency analyis without playing the file, since there are no
> frequencies actually recorded in the file, all that is recorded is many,
> many, many snapshots of the soundwave. Any of these snapshots only gives
> the coordinates for a single point of the curve.
>
> Frequencies only come into play when the soundfile is played back or
> otherwise analysed with respect to time.
>
> Whatever the software is doing it is definitely dealing with the digital
> data, not with any analogue translation of it.
>
> Johannes

You are right that the software of necessity must analyze the digital stream
before the D/A conversion, Johannes.  However, real-time playback is not
necessary to do a spectrum analysis.  The sampled waveform is used as input
to an algorithm known as a Discrete Fourier Transform, or DFT (the digital
equivalent to an analog Fourier Transform), and what comes out of the DFT
are coefficients of the amplitude of the frequency spectrum at an interval
determined by the sample rate frequency.  This can be easily done in
real-time nowadays by any desktop PC, but when I was working in this field
in the mid-70's it required extremely fast, specially built hardware
(running at all of 10 MHz!) and very clever programming techniques to reduce
the calculation overhead.  These software techniques are collectively known
as the Fast Fourier Transform, or FFT.

I think the reason that PC software would do the DFT in real-time instead of
directly on the data in the file is to avoid having to write a parser for
different audio formats, or even for different flavors of the same format.
If the samples are intercepted when they're sent to the sound card, it
doesn't matter what the original audio format was.

Lee Actor
Composer-in-Residence and Assistant Conductor, Palo Alto Philharmonic
http://www.leeactor.com


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Moving System to New Page

[dhbailey]

Noel Stoutenburg wrote:


Godofredo wrote, suggesting:

if you dont want to alter the page margins nor insert a page break you 
can also augment the top system margins,



which is similar to a method I sometimes use, except that I increase the 
bottom margin of the system just before the page break.




That's what I do, since it involves simply dragging the lower-right 
handle in Page View down until the unwanted system jumps to the next page.


It's important to remember to update the layout from the beginning of 
the file after doing this.  Automatic update layout seems to handle it 
well in the more recent versions of Finale, but in the older versions if 
you don't remember to update the layout, the system which got pushed off 
of one page wouldn't automatically make it onto the next page, and your 
file would be missing a system.


So even though I leave automatic update layout turned on, I have gotten 
burned enough in the past by this that when I start moving systems 
around, habit makes me go back to page 1 and hit ctrl-u to ensure that 
nothing gets dropped.



--
David H. Bailey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Moving System to New Page

[Noel Stoutenburg]

Godofredo wrote, suggesting:

if you dont want to alter the page margins nor insert a page break you 
can also augment the top system margins,


which is similar to a method I sometimes use, except that I increase the 
bottom margin of the system just before the page break.


ns

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 22:35 Uhr David W. Fenton wrote:
Well, it depends on how it's doing it. The only thing I could figure 
out how to do on the software I downloaded was real-time analysis of 
something playing on my PC. This, of necessity, would included the 
basic noise and distortion built into my PC's audio system.


No it wouldn't. It's analysing the digital code being streamed from the 
soundfile. Unless it is doing something very unusual there is no way the 
audio system inside your PC (which does everything from DA conversion 
onwards, but nothing before it) could have any influence on the analysis.


How else would you analyse a sound file than in realtime? You cannot 
make a frequency analyis without playing the file, since there are no 
frequencies actually recorded in the file, all that is recorded is many, 
many, many snapshots of the soundwave. Any of these snapshots only gives 
the coordinates for a single point of the curve.


Frequencies only come into play when the soundfile is played back or 
otherwise analysed with respect to time.


Whatever the software is doing it is definitely dealing with the digital 
data, not with any analogue translation of it.


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[David W. Fenton]

On 28 Sep 2005 at 22:10, Johannes Gebauer wrote:

> On 21:58 Uhr David W. Fenton wrote:
> > I couldn't find anything recent that was not a plugin. And the only
> > things I did find were WAV only, or I could not figure out how to
> > analyze a file without playing it (which will muck up the analysis
> > by being polluted with the frequency response and noise level of my
> > computers audio system).
> 
> How would that work? I doubt that any software would first bring the
> signal into the analogue, and then back into the digital (which it has
> to, to do any digital analysation).
> 
> I am pretty sure your computer's audio system cannot possibly polute
> the analysis, unless you are playing back something and feeding it
> back into the computer (via outboard cables, feeding the output into
> the input jacks). Which would be a pretty silly thing to do, unless
> you actually want to test your computer's audio system.

Well, it depends on how it's doing it. The only thing I could figure 
out how to do on the software I downloaded was real-time analysis of 
something playing on my PC. This, of necessity, would included the 
basic noise and distortion built into my PC's audio system. The 
software that Hiro recommended seemed to have the capability for me 
to profile the system so that this could be subtracted out of the 
analysis, but I couldn't figure out how to make it work.

And none of these was what I was expecting, an analysis of the wave 
form without playing it back. I don't know if that would or would not 
require the D-to-A converter in my soundcard, but that oughtn't 
introduce artifacts itself, certainly not to the degree that playback 
does.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[A-NO-NE Music]

David W. Fenton / 2005/09/28 / 03:58 PM wrote:

>I couldn't find anything recent that was not a plugin. And the only 
>things I did find were WAV only, or I could not figure out how to 
>analyze a file without playing it (which will muck up the analysis by 
>being polluted with the frequency response and noise level of my 
>computers audio system).

Here is your Couperin of 128 vs 192 analysis.  What I did was to take
the left channel of 128 k and compared against the left channel of 192
k.  This shows more accurate comparison.



You are right that the file still needs to be processed in real-time
because the data is only reproducible in real-time, but it does not need
to be actually played.  I ran this analysis on my Powerbook without
using any hardware.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[Johannes Gebauer]

On 21:58 Uhr David W. Fenton wrote:
I couldn't find anything recent that was not a plugin. And the only 
things I did find were WAV only, or I could not figure out how to 
analyze a file without playing it (which will muck up the analysis by 
being polluted with the frequency response and noise level of my 
computers audio system).


How would that work? I doubt that any software would first bring the 
signal into the analogue, and then back into the digital (which it has 
to, to do any digital analysation).


I am pretty sure your computer's audio system cannot possibly polute the 
analysis, unless you are playing back something and feeding it back into 
the computer (via outboard cables, feeding the output into the input 
jacks). Which would be a pretty silly thing to do, unless you actually 
want to test your computer's audio system.


Johannes
--
http://www.musikmanufaktur.com
http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[David W. Fenton]

On 28 Sep 2005 at 15:37, Adriel wrote:

> Check out versiontracker.com They just had  a spectrograph type app on
> there this week.

I couldn't find anything recent that was not a plugin. And the only 
things I did find were WAV only, or I could not figure out how to 
analyze a file without playing it (which will muck up the analysis by 
being polluted with the frequency response and noise level of my 
computers audio system).

I give up!

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[Adriel]

Check out versiontracker.com They just had  a spectrograph type app on there
this week.

_A

> From: "David W. Fenton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:03:36 -0400
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison
> 
> On 28 Sep 2005 at 14:12, A-NO-NE Music wrote:
> 
>> David W. Fenton / 2005/09/28 / 01:50 PM wrote:
>> 
>>> BTW, I assume that you produced the spectrograph with some piece of
>>> high-end audio software that you have. I Googled to see if there was
>>> any freeware/shareware to do the same thing, and couldn't find
>>> anything. Any ideas/suggestions, without spending money?
>> 
>> I was trying to find one for you but I couldn't.
>> The one I use is called SpectraFoo which is the standard on Mac:
>> 
>> And one which is equivalent to Windows is Smaart:
>> 
>> 
>> These are the only industrial standard I know of.
> 
> Well, I got the demo of that (after the suggestion below turned out
> to not be usable by me), and I don't know enough to figure out how to
> use it! I just wanted something that I'd load a file and the program
> would analyze the audio spectrum and give me the chance to display it
> in various ways. I was hoping to produce the same kind of graph you
> made, but for other files, but I guess that's not in the cards.
> 
>> Oh wait! Elemental audio has a free one:
>> 
>> I just took a look, and they have Windows version, too!  They just
>> came up with InspectorXL a few weeks ago, and they are quite accurate
>> as I demoed, while they don't have as many features as SpectraFoo and
>> Smaart that most of us, studio engineers and FOH engineers needs.
> 
> Well, turns out that doesn't do me any good, as I don't have an AU-
> compatible host application to run it in -- I need something that's a
> standalone application, instead of a plugin.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion, though.
> 
> -- 
> David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
> David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Moving System to New Page

[Godofredo Romero]

if you dont want to alter the page margins nor insert a page break you
can also augment the top system margins, this way each system will
occupy more space in the page.

GR

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Select the Page Layout icon
then select the stave and Page Layout should give the option to Insert a hard page break

I hope that's the answer to what you were asking.

Richard

  
  
From: "Jacki B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2005/09/28 Wed PM 12:42:38 EDT
To: 
Subject: [Finale] Moving System to New Page

Hi, Everyone - Is there some easy way to force a system at the bottom of a
page onto the next page?  I'm adjusting the distance between systems on page
2 but then it keeps scooting another system onto the bottom of page 1 -
which then runs into my copyright notice at the bottom, etc.!  How can I do
this and force that system to stay on page 2?!

Thanks!

Jacki


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


  
  

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

  



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[David W. Fenton]

On 28 Sep 2005 at 14:12, A-NO-NE Music wrote:

> David W. Fenton / 2005/09/28 / 01:50 PM wrote:
> 
> >BTW, I assume that you produced the spectrograph with some piece of
> >high-end audio software that you have. I Googled to see if there was
> >any freeware/shareware to do the same thing, and couldn't find
> >anything. Any ideas/suggestions, without spending money?
> 
> I was trying to find one for you but I couldn't.
> The one I use is called SpectraFoo which is the standard on Mac:
> 
> And one which is equivalent to Windows is Smaart:
> 
> 
> These are the only industrial standard I know of.  

Well, I got the demo of that (after the suggestion below turned out 
to not be usable by me), and I don't know enough to figure out how to 
use it! I just wanted something that I'd load a file and the program 
would analyze the audio spectrum and give me the chance to display it 
in various ways. I was hoping to produce the same kind of graph you 
made, but for other files, but I guess that's not in the cards.

> Oh wait! Elemental audio has a free one:
> 
> I just took a look, and they have Windows version, too!  They just
> came up with InspectorXL a few weeks ago, and they are quite accurate
> as I demoed, while they don't have as many features as SpectraFoo and
> Smaart that most of us, studio engineers and FOH engineers needs.

Well, turns out that doesn't do me any good, as I don't have an AU-
compatible host application to run it in -- I need something that's a 
standalone application, instead of a plugin.

Thanks for the suggestion, though.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] FIN/MAC 2006 and GPO Studio questions

[Darcy James Argue]

On 27 Sep 2005, at 2:52 PM, Gerald Berg wrote:

Well I got Finale 2006 and got it running with Finale GPO but dang  
if it don't sound different from my GPO STUDIO set (I'm running the  
piano duo sounds).


I notice I have to register this new Finale GPO too.

So...
1) Is there a way to run my 'old' GPO Studio with FIN 2006?
2) Do I really have to buy this new one?
3.)  Why do the 2 versions sound so different?



Jerry,

1) The whole point of the AU/VST system in Finale 2006 is that you  
don't need to use GPO Studio anymore -- you can load the full GPO  
instruments directly into your Finale documents. Just make sure  
you've applied the latest GPO Kontakt Player Update (from July of  
this year), installed the optional "Notation" set, and load only the  
"Notation" instruments. (If you applied the GPO update before  
installing Finale 2006, you need to apply it again.) Also, make sure  
Human Playback is ON and that you change any existing keyswitching  
expressions so they do NOT play back (let HP catch them).


2) Huh? Buy what "new one"?

3) Your ears are playing tricks on you. GPO Finale Edition  
Instruments use exactly the same samples as full GPO instruments -- 
with one exception -- the GPO Finale Edition keyswitched solo strings  
have sampled tremolos. Otherwise, there's no difference. Since you  
already own GPO full, there's no need for you to install GPO Finale  
Edition, provided you install the latest GPO update and load only the  
Notation instruments.


- Darcy
-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Brooklyn, NY



___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[A-NO-NE Music]

David W. Fenton / 2005/09/28 / 01:50 PM wrote:

>BTW, I assume that you produced the spectrograph with some piece of 
>high-end audio software that you have. I Googled to see if there was 
>any freeware/shareware to do the same thing, and couldn't find 
>anything. Any ideas/suggestions, without spending money?

I was trying to find one for you but I couldn't.
The one I use is called SpectraFoo which is the standard on Mac:

And one which is equivalent to Windows is Smaart:


These are the only industrial standard I know of.  

Oh wait! Elemental audio has a free one:

I just took a look, and they have Windows version, too!  They just came
up with InspectorXL a few weeks ago, and they are quite accurate as I
demoed, while they don't have as many features as SpectraFoo and Smaart
that most of us, studio engineers and FOH engineers needs.

-- 

- Hiro

Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA
 


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[David W. Fenton]

On 28 Sep 2005 at 0:08, A-NO-NE Music wrote:

> David W. Fenton / 2005/09/26 / 05:40 PM wrote:
> >On 26 Sep 2005 at 14:29, Christopher Smith wrote:
> >> . . . All there would be
> >> left to do is to compare them with the original (presumably
> >> sixteen-bit digital.) I would suppose that the maximum of about 3
> >> dB differences in the mid-range wouldn't be very audible.
> >
> >I have uploaded the source WAV here:
> >
> >http://www.dfenton.com/Midi/MozartK581Arr/MozartK581ArrA.zip
> 
> OK, I redone the spectragraph.
> 
> This time, I changed the scale so you can see the differences in high
> better. You might think 8k and above is not necessary to human ear,
> but this is where the time impulse lives to reproduce the depth of the
> image.

That's super! Thanks so much, Hiro.

And it definitely confirms what I hear, in that it's more an ambience 
difference and a vague sense of harshness in the 128 that I hear.

Very interesting!

BTW, I assume that you produced the spectrograph with some piece of 
high-end audio software that you have. I Googled to see if there was 
any freeware/shareware to do the same thing, and couldn't find 
anything. Any ideas/suggestions, without spending money?

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton
David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Moving System to New Page

[richard.bartkus]

Select the Page Layout icon
then select the stave and Page Layout should give the option to Insert a hard 
page break

I hope that's the answer to what you were asking.

Richard

> 
> From: "Jacki B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/09/28 Wed PM 12:42:38 EDT
> To: 
> Subject: [Finale] Moving System to New Page
> 
> Hi, Everyone - Is there some easy way to force a system at the bottom of a
> page onto the next page?  I'm adjusting the distance between systems on page
> 2 but then it keeps scooting another system onto the bottom of page 1 -
> which then runs into my copyright notice at the bottom, etc.!  How can I do
> this and force that system to stay on page 2?!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jacki
> 
> 
> ___
> Finale mailing list
> Finale@shsu.edu
> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] Moving System to New Page

[Brad Beyenhof]

On 9/28/05, Jacki B. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Everyone - Is there some easy way to force a system at
> the bottom of a page onto the next page?

Yep, there's an incredibly easy way to do this.

In the Page Layout tool, just right-click (or control-click on a Mac)
the system's upper-left handle and choose "Insert Page Break."

--
Brad Beyenhof
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://augmentedfourth.blogspot.com
Silence will save me from being wrong (and foolish), but it will also
deprive me of the possibility of being right.   ~ Igor Stravinsky

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] Moving System to New Page

[Jacki B.]

Hi, Everyone - Is there some easy way to force a system at the bottom of a
page onto the next page?  I'm adjusting the distance between systems on page
2 but then it keeps scooting another system onto the bottom of page 1 -
which then runs into my copyright notice at the bottom, etc.!  How can I do
this and force that system to stay on page 2?!

Thanks!

Jacki


___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] OT: Ross's Art of Music Engraving on eBay

[Morris Inouye]

I frequent eBay too much, I am told, but today I noticed that Ross's Art of Music Engraving is being offered there:

Item 4578897818-- Morris Inouye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. --Hanlon's Razor
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

RE: [Finale] importing encore file

[Williams, Jim]

What version of Encore?



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Pierre Bailleul
Sent: Wed 28-Sep-05 10:05
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Finale] importing encore file



Dear list,
I can't open encore files (Win) in finale 2005 (Win).
"An error occured while importing file" ?
Thanks for your responses.
Pierre.
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale


<>___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

[Finale] importing encore file

[Pierre Bailleul]

Dear list,
I can't open encore files (Win) in finale 2005 (Win).
"An error occured while importing file" ?
Thanks for your responses.
Pierre.
___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale

Re: [Finale] OT: MP3 Compression Comparison

[Christopher Smith]

On Sep 28, 2005, at 12:08 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote:


David W. Fenton / 2005/09/26 / 05:40 PM wrote:

On 26 Sep 2005 at 14:29, Christopher Smith wrote:

. . . All there would be
left to do is to compare them with the original (presumably
sixteen-bit digital.) I would suppose that the maximum of about 3 dB
differences in the mid-range wouldn't be very audible.


I have uploaded the source WAV here:

http://www.dfenton.com/Midi/MozartK581Arr/MozartK581ArrA.zip




OK, I redone the spectragraph.

This time, I changed the scale so you can see the differences in high 
better.

You might think 8k and above is not necessary to human ear, but this is
where the time impulse lives to reproduce the depth of the image.



Wow, I can really see the difference here. You are right that there is 
a lot of detail above 8k that is important to realism, but it is the 
parts above 16k that I don't think I am hearing much.


One thing I see that seems to agree with what I have read about mp3 
encoding is that frequencies that are much below the general level of 
sound get stripped out. This only APPEARS to be the case in the upper 
register, but In an average spectrograph like this one won't see the 
effects of stripping out low-level details such as transients (the 
fast-disappearing frequencies at the start of notes that are important 
to timbre perception.)


I listened closely (cranking the volume a bit on my Yamaha NS10M's) and 
it is true that there seems to be more blurring, even in the mid-range, 
and that it is more pronounced in the lower-quality encoding. The upper 
register differences below 16k in the one piece I can hear clearly, and 
that is reflected in the spectrograph. Yet the mid-register differences 
that I can hear don't seem to be showing in the spectrograph. Nature of 
the method, I suppose. Maybe we would see even MORE differences 
reflected in a shorter sample of the music.


I have heard talk of (though I haven't done a comparison myself) that 
with pop recordings with "big bass", the low register suffers 
significantly with lower-rate encoding. I confess that I don't hear 
anything of the sort in these recordings, but then they don't have that 
kind of energy in the bass!


In any case, both encodings beat the heck out of cassette recordings 
(!) and certainly are plenty good for demo purposes.


Thanks for a highly illuminating look at encoding schemes.

Christopher

___
Finale mailing list
Finale@shsu.edu
http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale