Re: [Finale] OT Library
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure whether you mean you need help setting up a catalogue system or a loan system. I am presuming the former. I use a normal everyday database program to organise our library - (we used to use the database program in Microsoft Works then changed to Paradox which is much more powerful) Each category has a separate table (file) :- orchestra; string orchestra; wind band; brass band; flute group; clarinet group; wind ensemble. The pieces are catalogued under the name of the composer and I print off a catologue listing the pieces in order of composer and in order of title. Even if the catalogue is lost or stolen, so long as you know the name of the composer (and you should) most pieces can be found within seconds. Of course there's still the computer database which can be searched until a new copy is printed. (One department was setup by someone else and pieces are simply added to the end as they are bought. This works perfectly until the printed catologue disappears, then you have to search through over 800 folders until you find the one you want - I'm hoping to sort that one out soon!) The same programme also prints labels for the boxes/folders. Great advice, Lawrence -- I use a similar system for my town band's library, but I have all titles in a single database (it's easy to keep straight). I use a key field so that I can sort the database according to type, using the first letters of the following types of music: Concert, March, Xmas (this incorporates all our holiday music, even if it is for Chanukah or Kwanzaa or New Year's or simply winter-related). My next great organizational step will be adding a Solo key so that I can rapidly find all our works for band with clarinet solo, for example. Now if the original question really does concern how to handle a lending system, I don't have an answer that doesn't require a lot of personnel time. But it could also be done using Paradox or any other relational database, since they are designed for just such things. The problem, however is setting the system up and then maintaining it and also enforcing that procedures are all followed precisely. This sort of database system would of necessity require the assistance of someone experience in relational database design and maintenance. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Library
John Howell wrote: At 8:47 PM +0100 2/12/06, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 12.02.2006 Johan Vercruysse wrote: Let me first introduce myself. I'm a music teacher in Belgium. We would like to set up a small musical library in our school. Anybody have some tips how to organize it. Anybody knows about simple software or database for such a score library. Very good question. I don't have the answer, but I am interested myself, and would like to keep this on-list. Johannes When this question comes up on other lists (ChoraList, OrchestraList), a few proprietary software items are usually mentioned, but a large consensus seems to feel that any of the generic databases that can be set up flexibly is a better choice because they can reflect your own needs of the moment and they can also be changed if those needs change in the future. The disadvantage is that someone who is computer-literate must set it up in the first place. Our music department uses Filemaker Pro, which may be Mac only (as is out Department), for our databases, and it's set up so that our secretaries have no problems accessing and using them. Of course we also have the expertise for people to have written original database programs for us that go far beyond any generic database. John FilemakerPro is also a windows program. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 8th = Q
Yes, but I *really* don't recommend the traditional notation. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://secretsociety.typepad.com Brooklyn, NY On 12 Feb 2006, at 5:56 PM, Cecil Rigby wrote: Both Heussenstamm and Read show the equal sign centered on the barline only when arrows are being used in the more modern approach. (see my earlier msg..) The traditional notation showed all examples with the first note placed over the new meter. Cecil Rigby The other important thing its to have the = centered above the barline. - Darcy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] disappearing posts
Andrew and/or John, I did some Web searching to see what I could find about this renumbering, and the only thing I could find is that there is no real Schubert 7th, that the original renumbering of 8 and 9 was made to account for a missing symphony that was later determined to be the Great C Major. Would this account for this new re-numbering of the latter as the 8th, or has the Unfinished really been determined to have been written last? Raymond Horton John Howell wrote: At 9:43 PM -0500 2/12/06, Andrew Stiller wrote: Among other things I asked (partly just to be provocative) whether by Schubert's 9th was meant the Great C Major or the Unfinished, since the two have recently changed places--and I attended a concert last week in which the C Major was performed as Symphony No. 8. I got that one, Andrew, so it did make it to the list. And yes, Daniels mentions that after the first six, the numbering is a worse mess than with Dvorak! John ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 8th = Q
me either, Darcy. In a case not long ago, with a composer we eventually decided to publish, this issue came up. In order to avoid all confusion we simply decided to show the beat unit's metronome markings at the beginning of each of the two affected sections. I'm still not sure the composer was convinced the more recommended method was OK to use, despite lots of evidence provided to support it. This person was schooled in the traditional method and just wasn't comfortable with the change. The compromise is clear, of course, so everyone's happy now. To stay even more OnT with Finale-- it's nice that one has only to set up the arrow and notes the first time, and then just use that shape as a template, changing the note values and adding or deleting dots as required. Cecil Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) www.harrockhall.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes, but I *really* don't recommend the traditional notation. - Darcy Both Heussenstamm and Read show the equal sign centered on the barline only when arrows are being used in the more modern approach. (see my earlier msg..) The traditional notation showed all examples with the first note placed over the new meter. Cecil ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] ossia and slurs
Maybe I'm missing something obvious. I have an ossia measure which refuses to carry the slurs found in the source measure. Is this the expected behaviour?! Thanks for any insights. Cecil Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) www.harrockhall.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] OT Library
Filemaker is cross platform, and really easy (although the page layout tools are annoying) to set up. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:53 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] OT Library John Howell wrote: At 8:47 PM +0100 2/12/06, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 12.02.2006 Johan Vercruysse wrote: Let me first introduce myself. I'm a music teacher in Belgium. We would like to set up a small musical library in our school. Anybody have some tips how to organize it. Anybody knows about simple software or database for such a score library. Very good question. I don't have the answer, but I am interested myself, and would like to keep this on-list. Johannes When this question comes up on other lists (ChoraList, OrchestraList), a few proprietary software items are usually mentioned, but a large consensus seems to feel that any of the generic databases that can be set up flexibly is a better choice because they can reflect your own needs of the moment and they can also be changed if those needs change in the future. The disadvantage is that someone who is computer-literate must set it up in the first place. Our music department uses Filemaker Pro, which may be Mac only (as is out Department), for our databases, and it's set up so that our secretaries have no problems accessing and using them. Of course we also have the expertise for people to have written original database programs for us that go far beyond any generic database. John FilemakerPro is also a windows program. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] disappearing posts
On Feb 13, 2006, at 8:09 AM, Raymond Horton wrote: Andrew and/or John, I did some Web searching to see what I could find about this renumbering, and the only thing I could find is that there is no real Schubert 7th, that the original renumbering of 8 and 9 was made to account for a missing symphony that was later determined to be the Great C Major. Would this account for this new re-numbering of the latter as the 8th, or has the Unfinished really been determined to have been written last? Both. Because the missing Gastein symphony is really the Gt. C, then it follows that this sym. was written before the Unfinished. And BTW, there really is a 7th sym., in E major. Schubert never finished the orchestration, is all. Several people, starting w. Weingartner, have offered completions of it, and it has even been recorded a few times. IMO it's a very fine symphony and should be much more widely known. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Library
Hi David, It sounds like our systems are similar. I use the following fields (all of which can be queried and listed/sorted): Title; Composer; Arranger; Type; Grade; Cat. Number; Scoring; Comments For the orchestral database I also started to include fields for the number of parts for each instrument in each box, but I soon saw the error of my ways. (This was when it looked like we were going to hire out music to outside agencies). The headings above seem to have covered every eventuality so far and the comments section is a catch-all. All the best, Lawrence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Scoring for Band
Collective Wisdom, I am trying to take the piano accompaniment for a euphonium solo and score it for band/wind ens. I know all the usual stuff about transpositions, ranges, etc., so I am not a total novice. Is there a reference scoring text for BAND only? Most of what I've been able to find is for orchestra with band as an afterthought. While I see the value of experiential learning, and have a large library of excellent samples, I would like to shorten the learning curve, since I may be able to play the piece in the not-so-distant future. Advice, please?? (All hope abandon doesn't count) Thanks, Jim W. winmail.dat___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT Library
Let me first introduce myself. I'm a music teacher in Belgium. We would like to set up a small musical library in our school. Anybody have some tips how to organize it. Anybody knows about simple software or database for such a score library. I have tried this before and I always have problems keeping things organised. Thank you, Johan,I have set up a few sheet music and CD/recording archive libraries using Filemaker Pro (windows and mac + very cross platform friendly) and can let you have a 'clone' copy of the file (and anyone else on the list who is interested). This is a copy of the database file but without any entries, just like you would have to start out.They are all in v5.5 although Filemaker is now onto v8 I think, but it'll work fine in any version since 5.5. One file has nearly 10,000 records and filemaker handles it fine, a full A-Z re-ordering takes only a couple of seconds.I have it set up with entries (they're called 'fields') for:Title (of each individual piece, including those within a selection or suite etc.) Selection, Show or Film Title (from which it derives)ComposerArrangerPublisherPublication DateTimingSelection Contents (So one can view all the numbers within a collective work)Format - Radio buttons that you click on to define things like:Finale FilePrinted ScoreReference ScorePublished Sheet MusicPublished Music AlbumInstrumentation - Check boxes for categories:OrchestralConcert BandChoralSolo InstrumentalPianoVocal ScoreCategory - Check Boxes for:AlbumFantasyMarchOvertureSelectionSuite WaltzHymnFanfarePlus a field for instrumentation details - there are just so many variations it is impossible to pidgeon-hole everything into a specific category.It also has a 'Loan' section so you can track any music that goes out of the library.You can easily customise the database to your requirements and you don't _have_ to use all the above choices but believe me, it's good to have them onboard when things expand!The problem with using a word processor or spreadsheet in difference to a fully blown database is in the restriction of searching capabilities and the presentation of the data from within the file. With filemaker you can have many different 'layouts' for viewing, printing and presenting your data but it all stays within the same file, you just move seemlessly from one environment to the other. AND you can export and import easily (this includes to speadsheets and other database applications).You can also set up the layouts so that certain fields are restricted to viewing or entry, or the user is given a preset choice of entries, as some of my files are. You can even link fields across different database files. It is very versatile and I couldn't imagine ever using anything else, even for the smallest of libraries. Obviously (the downer), you have to put the data in first, but a little judicious planning can save days of work at a later stage. But once entered you can manipulate it any way you wish. Expect it to take a few sessions to get you head around the program, but isn't that the case with any good piece of software?Why not download a trial version and run my file, see what you think. You'll also have a whole load of other database related files like address book or contacts, personel records, invoicing, etc., at your disposal. You can (and should) use it for just about anything where you need information stored collectively and then presented or searched upon in different ways. In this way the application can be used for many quite different tasks.Jonathan___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band
Williams, Jim wrote: Collective Wisdom, I am trying to take the piano accompaniment for a euphonium solo and score it for band/wind ens. I know all the usual stuff about transpositions, ranges, etc., so I am not a total novice. Is there a reference scoring text for BAND only? Most of what I've been able to find is for orchestra with band as an afterthought. While I see the value of experiential learning, and have a large library of excellent samples, I would like to shorten the learning curve, since I may be able to play the piece in the not-so-distant future. Advice, please?? (All hope abandon doesn't count) Thanks, Jim W. What exactly are you looking for? Suggetions for doubling lines, or something more mundane like what the various ranges are for the different instruments (student, amateur, pro)? For wonderful information about each instrument, you should own Andrew Stiller's Handbook of Instrumentation, available either through his own Kallisti Press or through www.npcimaging.com. For advice on doublings, my advice is simply use your imagination. In an accompanying situation making sure that the band's tone color doesn't overpower the soloist is the primary concern, and along with that is being sure that the accompanying lines are heard. Other than that, I'm not sure anything would be gained by a book on orchestrating for bands. My suggestion is to use Andrew Stiller's book for technical information, and then use your experience to double the lines when and if you feel that's appropriate. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band
At 11:15 AM -0500 2/13/06, Williams, Jim wrote: Collective Wisdom, I am trying to take the piano accompaniment for a euphonium solo and score it for band/wind ens. I know all the usual stuff about transpositions, ranges, etc., so I am not a total novice. Is there a reference scoring text for BAND only? Most of what I've been able to find is for orchestra with band as an afterthought. While I see the value of experiential learning, and have a large library of excellent samples, I would like to shorten the learning curve, since I may be able to play the piece in the not-so-distant future. Advice, please?? (All hope abandon doesn't count) Thanks, Jim W. First, a couple of obvious questions. Is it a copyrighted work? And are you completely sure it isn't already available? Abandon hope is for the story of Orpheus! However, what you want to do is probably one of the tougher things an arranger can tackle. The piano part may have been conceived for piano, or may be a compressed version of an orchestration or band arrangement. In either case, it's been put into a form suitable for piano, and you're going to have to approach it in terms of re-conceiving it for wind band. I did something similar when I arranged Debussy's Claire de lune for 12 voices. I looked at the piano figurations and tried to reverse engineer the thinking: What was Debussy after when he wrote these figurations; what can voices do that will make a similar effect through totally different means? On a very practical level, if you go into the project with that kind of open mind, you're already halfway there! As a beginner it will help you to think of the sections of the ensemble as blocks of sound, and use contrasts between blocks rather than contrast between solo colors as you might with an orchestra. Change busy arpeggios to noodling on chord tones. Think about how long chords should sustain, since the piano score won't be any help with that. Play with it and do what seems right. You'll find out soon enough in rehearsal what works and what doesn't! I have--packed away right now and very probably out of print--a book by one of the more famous guys called Scoring For The Band. I've had it a very long time (and my wife completely lost it when she first saw it on the shelf and thought of the obvious double entendre! [Europeans may ignore that interjection.]). You might find it in a university library, or through interlibrary loan. I can't remember how helpful it was, and I certainly haven't used any reference in my own composing or arranging for band for a very long time. Go for it! And best of luck. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Library
I took the Musicanet database submission form (Excel) and altered it to suit my needs. That's one of the most detailed forms I've ever seen! best wishes- Cecil Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) www.harrockhall.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Finale] OT Library ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band
At 2/13/2006 11:41 AM, dhbailey wrote: For advice on doublings, my advice is simply use your imagination. In an accompanying situation making sure that the band's tone color doesn't overpower the soloist is the primary concern, and along with that is being sure that the accompanying lines are heard. Other than that, I'm not sure anything would be gained by a book on orchestrating for bands. There is a major difference in bands and orchestras, I think. Many school bands are missing some instruments. I always liked it, when the parts had a lot of cue notes for instruments that might not be there. One year, I did not have a tuba. I started out adding notes to the parts for the Contrabass clarinet and Bari-sax. I ended up teaching the Bari-sax to read tuba parts and giving her both parts. My Instructions: When you're not playing the sax part, play the tuba part. Needless to say, she was my favorite bandsman. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Scoring for Band
Hi Jim,You might find this text useful, “Arranging for the Concert Band” by Frank Erickson, published by Warner Bros.All the best,Greg Greg Hamilton Music Service 2980 Corona Drive Burnaby, BC V3J 1B8 Tel: 604.444.9218 www.greghamiltonmusic.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 13-Feb-06, at 10:00 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:From: "Williams, Jim" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 13, 2006 8:15:18 AM PST (CA) To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Scoring for Band Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu Collective Wisdom, I am trying to take the piano accompaniment for a euphonium solo and score it for band/wind ens. I know all the usual stuff about transpositions, ranges, etc., so I am not a total novice. Is there a reference scoring text for BAND only? Most of what I've been able to find is for orchestra with band as an afterthought. While I see the value of experiential learning, and have a large library of excellent samples, I would like to shorten the learning curve, since I may be able to play the piece in the not-so-distant future. Advice, please?? ("All hope abandon" doesn't count) Thanks, Jim W. ___
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Re: [Finale] ossia and slurs
TY, Dennis- So I'm assuming the only decent workaround is use the scratch score, hiding all unused measures, and then drag the staff to the right location,reduce, etc. after I've optimized. What a crock! I can imagine how frustrating this would be if there were many ossias to deal with (as in much of Litszt's works). As it is, I have only one, thank goodness, and no lyric to deal with. Cecil Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) www.harrockhall.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have an ossia measure which refuses to carry the slurs found in the source measure. Is this the expected behaviour?! Yep, this is indeed a feature of ossias. Makes them just about useless... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band
On Feb 13, 2006, at 11:15 AM, Williams, Jim wrote: Collective Wisdom, I am trying to take the piano accompaniment for a euphonium solo and score it for band/wind ens. I know all the usual stuff about transpositions, ranges, etc., so I am not a total novice. Is there a reference scoring text for BAND only? Most of what I've been able to find is for orchestra with band as an afterthought. While I see the value of experiential learning, and have a large library of excellent samples, I would like to shorten the learning curve, since I may be able to play the piece in the not-so-distant future. Advice, please?? (All hope abandon doesn't count) \ Here's a book on strictly concert band (I grabbed the first URL I saw on it) I don't know it, so go with eyes open http://musicbooksplus.com/arranging-concert-band-p-1783.html and Gary White's book is fantastic, with an extended section on breaking down piano figurations (he also has the best chapter on young players I have ever seen in an arranging book.) http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0697354326/026-9332273-1217261 and Kent Kennan's orchestration book also deals extensively with translating piano figures, though not for band specifically. http://ostg.pricegrabber.com/search_books2.php/book_id=10090970/search= I know what you mean about writing for concert band specifically; there are certain expectations and a band idiom and culture that it is helpful to know, though the best way to write a terrible arrangement is to stick to the expectations too closely. Then again, a band is not an orchestra, and it is not a jazz big band, and it is not a combination wind quintet, brass quintet, and percussion ensemble on steroids either, so bringing too much of those ideas with you can be counter-productive, too. I've never seen a book on those aspects of concert band writing, as I have for orchestra, jazz band, and even for brass band. If Donald Hunsberger ever writes one, I would get it in a blink of an eye, because he is the most brilliant arranger for wind ensemble I have ever known of. Checking out some scores of things you like the sound of really helps, too, especially if you have a recording or know the work really well from having played it. I learned how to write for orchestra sitting in the trombone section of an orchestra with the scores to the works we were playing on my lap. I just finished three arrangements for concert band (this morning at 4 am I printed the last part!) and I wrestled with them something awful. I know the players are pretty good, some more so than others, yet I know that they won't always have two bassoons, two oboes, Eb clarinet, four horns, and a first trumpet with an easy high F. It was really hard to make decisions about how to score something with a cue somewhere so that the passage wouldn't be disemboweled if a chair was empty, yet still sound convincing. It was also hard not to make everything REALLY BIG AND LOUD, which is my weakness. Don't rely overly much on the sample playback. They do not react as real players do at all, especially to technical challenges, and will give you a terrible estimate of balance. They can only work well if you ALREADY know what the balance will be, and can adjust it to what you know it will actually sound like, in which case you wouldn't need it at all except to play it for someone less knowledgeable than yourself. If you have a band you can experiment on, bring a tape recorder and have them read a version through, then make revisions where you see fit. This is actually the shortest learning curve I know of to learning to write well. If you have enough lead time, you could get several revisions read through before saying, this is the final version. Good luck, and do it! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Schubert symphony E Major
Just curious: do you happen to know what the instrument lineup is for this symphony? Thanks, Steve S. NYC In a message dated 2/13/06 1:02:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:47:57 -0500 From: Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] And BTW, there really is a 7th sym., in E major. Schubert never finished the orchestration, is all. Several people, starting w. Weingartner, have offered completions of it, and it has even been recorded a few times. IMO it's a very fine symphony and should be much more widely known. Andrew Stiller ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT Library
Jonathan, and off course everybody else. Thanks for your help. I would love to get a clone copy. We don't have filemaker yet but we are thinking about ordering it. I would love to see your implementation. Thank you, You can use my email adres. Johan, I have set up a few sheet music and CD/recording archive libraries using Filemaker Pro (windows and mac + very cross platform friendly) and can let you have a 'clone' copy of the file (and anyone else on the list who is interested). This is a copy of the database file but without any entries, just like you would have to start out. They are all in v5.5 although Filemaker is now onto v8 I think, but it'll work fine in any version since 5.5. One file has nearly 10,000 records and filemaker handles it fine, a full A-Z re-ordering takes only a couple of seconds. I have it set up with entries (they're called 'fields') for: Title (of each individual piece, including those within a selection or suite etc.) Selection, Show or Film Title (from which it derives) Composer Arranger Publisher Publication Date Timing Selection Contents (So one can view all the numbers within a collective work) Format - Radio buttons that you click on to define things like: Finale File Printed Score Reference Score Published Sheet Music Published Music Album Instrumentation - Check boxes for categories: Orchestral Concert Band Choral Solo Instrumental Piano Vocal Score Category - Check Boxes for: Album Fantasy March Overture Selection Suite Waltz Hymn Fanfare Plus a field for instrumentation details - there are just so many variations it is impossible to pidgeon-hole everything into a specific category. It also has a 'Loan' section so you can track any music that goes out of the library. You can easily customise the database to your requirements and you don't _have_ to use all the above choices but believe me, it's good to have them onboard when things expand! The problem with using a word processor or spreadsheet in difference to a fully blown database is in the restriction of searching capabilities and the presentation of the data from within the file. With filemaker you can have many different 'layouts' for viewing, printing and presenting your data but it all stays within the same file, you just move seemlessly from one environment to the other. AND you can export and import easily (this includes to speadsheets and other database applications). You can also set up the layouts so that certain fields are restricted to viewing or entry, or the user is given a preset choice of entries, as some of my files are. You can even link fields across different database files. It is very versatile and I couldn't imagine ever using anything else, even for the smallest of libraries. Obviously (the downer), you have to put the data in first, but a little judicious planning can save days of work at a later stage. But once entered you can manipulate it any way you wish. Expect it to take a few sessions to get you head around the program, but isn't that the case with any good piece of software? Why not download a trial version and run my file, see what you think. You'll also have a whole load of other database related files like address book or contacts, personel records, invoicing, etc., at your disposal. You can (and should) use it for just about anything where you need information stored collectively and then presented or searched upon in different ways. In this way the application can be used for many quite different tasks. Jonathan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band
On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: It was also hard not to make everything REALLY BIG AND LOUD, which is my weakness. This just reminds me of an old recording I heard a few times (cannot find it now - though I haven't searched extensively) of Sousa Marches - played under the direction of his descendants. It was so much lighter and more transparent than the versions with which we are familiar that it sounded almost Mozartean. Part of this was a result of scoring (fewer instruments per section) and part from interpretation. Mark your score Non-Bombastico! Don't rely overly much on the sample playback. They do not react as real players do at all, especially to technical challenges, and will give you a terrible estimate of balance. Amen to this. I don't know if this is a fault of samples in general, or of the particular built in balances in the ones I use (mostly Garritan Jazz), but I have a template with my own guesses about mixer settings. They are better than the defaults (for me) but still not right, and they do not react as living people do. Even inexperienced students have more flexible reactions than the samples. Advice to Jim - have fun! Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: OT Si vs. Ti - Do
Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: KCM: I do need to know the note name to play it in tune. Of course, the horn gives you multiple fingerings for many notes, and these can be exploited to correct tuning without changing tone colour. That's funny; I need to know the scale function and chord relation to play in tune. An E as a major third in the key of C is flatter than the same note as a fifth in the key of A, for example. Agreed (when playing with other tunable instruments: different with fixed pitch ET), but that seems to be instinctive with hearing what key one is in. -- Ken Moore Musician and engineer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] copying articulation playback settings
Hi all, Can anyone supply step by step instructions for transferring playback settings that are integrated with some of the Jazz Font articulations so that Bill Duncan's new ones will playback the same way? (Fall- offs, scoops up to pitch, and bends, are the ones I'd like.) I believe these are done with shapes, and I wonder if there's a simple way to transfer them. I haven't tried this, or even looked inside the workings, but I wonder if some of you have experience that might save me time and frustration. TIA Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: OT Si vs. Ti - Do - now rhythm
From: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally I point out that in order to get a great performance, both pitch and rhythm need to be accurate, but if for any reason they can't get both right at first, they should ALWAYS be sure to get the rhythm right, then work on playing the correct pitches at the correct times based on the rhythms they got right the first time. One of Walter Bergman's Rules for ensemble playing: A right note in the wrong place is a wrong note. I think my favourite is: Play the same piece, not just for its glorious obviousness but also for the amazing number of times that it is disobeyed by amateurs (some of whom lose concentration rather easily) in a rehearsal. -- Ken Moore Musician and engineer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 8th = Q
On 13 Feb 2006 at 8:14, Cecil Rigby wrote: In a case not long ago, with a composer we eventually decided to publish, this issue came up. In order to avoid all confusion we simply decided to show the beat unit's metronome markings at the beginning of each of the two affected sections. I'm still not sure the composer was convinced the more recommended method was OK to use, despite lots of evidence provided to support it. This person was schooled in the traditional method and just wasn't comfortable with the change. The compromise is clear, of course, so everyone's happy now. Well, count me out on metronome markings. First off, I'm not a fan of metronomes -- I don't even own one. The reason is that I believe as a practice tool they are not useful, since they encourage non-musical performance. The only purpose they have is as a reference for identifying the general tempo, but I believe that's only really necessary when the music is so obscure (or badly written) as to make it impossible to figure out the appropriate tempo range just from the musical text and the tempo/mood markings. Second, metronome markings tend to overspecify tempos. If you provide a single one, does that mean approximately or exactly? If the former, how much varation is appropriate? For most music, it seems to me that it's better to provide a range of appropriate metronome settings. But in that case, what do you do to show proportions? If you have Q=80-96 do you then do H=80-96? If you do, then the interpreter has to remember that this was the tempo range of the previous section and that this indicates an equivalence between the two subdivisions. But it's ambiguous as to whether what is intended is an exact proportion of a tempo defined loosly, or a loose proportion of a tempo range. If you have a metronome mark at the beginning of a piece and a proportion for meter changes, you can clearly specify what you mean. If you want no actual proportion, then you use a metronome marking. If you want a proportion, then you define it by showing which note values are equivalent in the two meters. It seems to me that -q=h- is completely unambiguous and easy to understand. Just putting in a metronome marking that is twice the speed of the previous metronome marking is not going to provide nearly as much information. Now you if you did -q=h- (h=80-96) that would be completely unambiguous. And isn't that what we want? Don't we want the interpreters of the music we're engraving to be able to perform it without scratching their heads or without having to jump back to the beginning to understand what a metronome marking means in context? Or without having to stop and check the metronome before going to the next section? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band
Jim: If you are coming at this from the point of view of an orchestral person, then my guess is that you'd benefit from some generalizations in the differences bewteen the ensembles. Clarity of lines is the biggest difference, I've noticed. When all looks equal, the low voices are weaker than in orchestral writing, particularly in the baritone/tenor range. If you have a low prominent line, over-orchestrate it. This is partly because of numbers, but also because the overall overtones sit lower in the band and that register is often masked. Since you're writing for euphonium solo, this can be a problem. Under orchestrate what your instincts tell you. Any and all concertos are difficult to orchestrate for band euphonium, doubly so. Still, I have heard well-orchestrated euphonium works with band. Check out http://euphonium.com/ for more info. -Carolyn On 2/13/06, Williams, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Collective Wisdom, I am trying to take the piano accompaniment for a euphonium solo and score it for band/wind ens. I know all the usual stuff about transpositions, ranges, etc., so I am not a total novice. Is there a reference scoring text for BAND only? Most of what I've been able to find is for orchestra with band as an afterthought. While I see the value of experiential learning, and have a large library of excellent samples, I would like to shorten the learning curve, since I may be able to play the piece in the not-so-distant future. Advice, please?? (All hope abandon doesn't count) Thanks, Jim W. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Schubert symphony E Major
Hi, Steve -- 2,2,2,2/4,2,3,0/timp/strings. The Newbould completion of #7, which is identical to the Weingartner scoring - both call for that orchestration;Schubert's original score had 14 staves - which was uncharacteristic for his usual piano-score-with-subsequent-orchestration style. Because thiswork calls for 4 horns it is the largest orchestra for which Schubertcomposed (the b-minor and 'Great' C both call for nearly the same-sized orchestra but with only 2 horns.) Best, Les Les MarsdenFounding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony OrchestraMusic and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!!http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.htmlhttp://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: [Finale] Re: Schubert symphony E Major Just curious: do you happen to know what the instrument lineup is for this symphony?Thanks,Steve S.NYCIn a message dated 2/13/06 1:02:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Message: 3Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:47:57 -0500From: Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED]And BTW, there really is a 7th sym., in E major. Schubert never finished the orchestration, is all. Several people, starting w. Weingartner, have offered completions of it, and it has even been recorded a few times. IMO it's a very fine symphony and should be much more widely known.Andrew Stiller ___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 8th = Q
At 03:04 PM 2/13/06 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote: The reason is that I believe as a practice tool they are not useful, since they encourage non-musical performance. The only purpose they have is as a reference for identifying the general tempo, but I believe that's only really necessary when the music is so obscure (or badly written) as to make it impossible to figure out the appropriate tempo range just from the musical text and the tempo/mood markings. The markings are quite specific in many contemporary scores -- not to be 'metronomic' but simply to be precise about where the tempo is to fall both absolutely and in relation to other places. Second, metronome markings tend to overspecify tempos. If you provide a single one, does that mean approximately or exactly? If the former, how much varation is appropriate? For most music, it seems to me that it's better to provide a range of appropriate metronome settings. That would apply to most music because the specificity of markings was only extraordinarily important in the era 1945-1975 (generalizing there) and continues to be critical among the New Complexity composers. But exact tempos still remain crucial in electroacoustic pieces with fixed accompaniment, or in any piece where the relationships between rhythms have to be expressed with great clarity. (Karkoschka identifies 21 contemporary methods of marking tempo outside the traditional types.) But in that case, what do you do to show proportions? If you have Q=80-96 do you then do H=80-96? If you do, then the interpreter has to remember that this was the tempo range of the previous section and that this indicates an equivalence between the two subdivisions. By indicating approximation to start with, you've set up a puzzle based on your own suggestion. If you assume it to be specific rather than a range, then even if the performer varies it, the resulting relationship is correct and the tempo is also likely to be closer to reality. Also, the word ca. comes to mind, a very handy way of letting the tempo flex a bit. But keep in mind that if a performer is lax with the tempo marking, that same performer might be lax with the rhythmic relationship in the 'x=y' equation. It seems to me that -q=h- is completely unambiguous and easy to understand. Or not, unless it's explained. :) And isn't that what we want? Don't we want the interpreters of the music we're engraving to be able to perform it without scratching their heads or without having to jump back to the beginning to understand what a metronome marking means in context? Or without having to stop and check the metronome before going to the next section? Maybe not. Having squirmed through performances of my own work where the metronome markings were entirely ignored (and not because of technical difficulties), I can underscore that the more lattitude that's given, the more that will be taken. I think we've had this discussion before? We specify notes, harmonies, tunings, orchestrations, etc., but when it comes to tempos and dynamics, we're assumed only to want what's approximate and leave it in the hands of a performer. Where I am specific, I would expect the performance to be specific. Dennis -- Please participate in my latest project: http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/365-2007.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Thanks
I want to extend sincere thanks to David Fenton, David Lawrence, David Bailey, Dennis and Allen for your generous response to my inquiry about desktops. You have been most helpful as I sort out what to do about going to a new machine. I do not remember seeing this post in my mail after I sent it. Not surprised since several have noted they did not receive mail. I wanted to be sure it reached those named above. Ken Fowler ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: OT Si vs. Ti - Do - now rhythm
My experience confirms this - and then some. However, since much of learning in school seems designed to teach rule following and correct answers without the limits of the kind of time constraints that make up a critical part of the language of music, a great deal of my time is taken up attempting to help students unlearn what they've found successful in other endeavors, but which simply doesn't apply to music. The fact that this is obvious to me, and others in this discussion, carries little weight compared to the overwhelming student experience that leads them to prioritize things in less productive, even misleading, ways. I'm just ranting, unless someone thinks of a way to influence this imbalance that I haven't thought to try. Chuck On Feb 13, 2006, at 11:55 AM, Ken Moore wrote: From: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally I point out that in order to get a great performance, both pitch and rhythm need to be accurate, but if for any reason they can't get both right at first, they should ALWAYS be sure to get the rhythm right, then work on playing the correct pitches at the correct times based on the rhythms they got right the first time. One of Walter Bergman's Rules for ensemble playing: A right note in the wrong place is a wrong note. I think my favourite is: Play the same piece, not just for its glorious obviousness but also for the amazing number of times that it is disobeyed by amateurs (some of whom lose concentration rather easily) in a rehearsal. -- Ken Moore Musician and engineer ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Scoring For Band
Jim,1. Band Scoring : Joseph Wagner : Pub. McGraw-Hill (This is my 'Bible' for band stuff)2. Arranging For The Concert Band : Frank Erickson : Pub. Belwin-Mills3. If it's already in printed piano accomp. I'd wager it's already been arranged by someone, somewhere.Just out of interest (being a Euph player myself) what's the piece? JonathanI am trying to take the piano accompaniment for a euphonium solo and score it for band/wind ens. I know all the usual stuff about transpositions, ranges, etc., so I am not a total novice. Is there a reference scoring text for BAND only? Most of what I've been able to find is for orchestra with band as an afterthought. While I see the value of experiential learning, and have a large library of excellent samples, I would like to shorten the learning curve, since I may be able to play the piece in the not-so-distant future. Advice, please?? ("All hope abandon" doesn't count) Thanks, Jim W. ___
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[Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
There is a good chance I may have some editions published in the UK; but I am a US citizen.I'm curious if anyone has suggestions or tips about doing this. The Hyperion case illustrates how differently UK laws are versus what we have in the United States. I know to copyright my own editions, I just dash off a copy to the Library of Congress. But if you have any pointers or thoughts, please feel free to let me know. I am very green in this area. I would rather learn now than find out painfully at a later date. Thanks so much! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Scoring for Band
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Chuck Israels Sent: Mon 13-Feb-06 14:30 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band On Feb 13, 2006, at 10:20 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: It was also hard not to make everything REALLY BIG AND LOUD, which is my weakness. This just reminds me of an old recording I heard a few times (cannot find it now - though I haven't searched extensively) of Sousa Marches - played under the direction of his descendants. It was so much lighter and more transparent than the versions with which we are familiar that it sounded almost Mozartean. Part of this was a result of scoring (fewer instruments per section) and part from interpretation. Mark your score Non-Bombastico! Not only that, Chuck, but the (low) brass instruments were MUCH smaller in Sousa's days than they are now. I soloed a couple years ago on a double-bell euphonium that used to belong to one of Sousa's Euphonium players and it was a pea shooter of the first order--smaller bore than today's student models! Many of the Eb tubas of that vintage were the same bore size as my Willson Euphonium pitched a FIFTH higher. Simone Mantia's trombone was smaller bore than a current King 2B. My experience with high brass is not as extensive, but my guess is that there were both Cornets and Trumpets in the old bands, which also would have taken some of the edge off the sound as well. One of Harvey Phillips's biggest gripes with current orchestral brass playing, esp. in the trombones/tuba, is the sheer SIZE of the instruments and the associated volume. Have you seen live performances with the plastic shields up isolating the brass? Some of those things they call 6/4 tubas are scary...more than one famous orchestral player blew their chops out from playing those things. They need to be licensed. I would also talk about bass trombones, but Louisville is not far from Indianapolis, and Mr. Horton might wrap his triple-trigger bi-valve low BBB XL-bore nitro-cylindrical confabulator around my size 16.5 neck seven or eight times. Jim W. winmail.dat___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 8th = Q
On 13 Feb 2006 at 16:11, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: At 03:04 PM 2/13/06 -0500, David W. Fenton wrote: The reason is that I believe as a practice tool they are not useful, since they encourage non-musical performance. The only purpose they have is as a reference for identifying the general tempo, but I believe that's only really necessary when the music is so obscure (or badly written) as to make it impossible to figure out the appropriate tempo range just from the musical text and the tempo/mood markings. The markings are quite specific in many contemporary scores -- not to be 'metronomic' but simply to be precise about where the tempo is to fall both absolutely and in relation to other places. I understand that. I consider it a case of a composer not really understanding music to require a very specific tempo marking. If you really require that in your music, you should be composing for synthesizers, not for human beings. But we've had this discussion before, Dennis, so I won't belabor the point -- we simply disagree on it. Second, metronome markings tend to overspecify tempos. If you provide a single one, does that mean approximately or exactly? If the former, how much varation is appropriate? For most music, it seems to me that it's better to provide a range of appropriate metronome settings. That would apply to most music because the specificity of markings was only extraordinarily important in the era 1945-1975 (generalizing there) and continues to be critical among the New Complexity composers. But exact tempos still remain crucial in electroacoustic pieces with fixed accompaniment, or in any piece where the relationships between rhythms have to be expressed with great clarity. (Karkoschka identifies 21 contemporary methods of marking tempo outside the traditional types.) Well, I wasn't considering electronic music in my comments, so I'll agree that there is a reasonable exception there to my specificity objection. Film scores would have the same requirements. But in that case, what do you do to show proportions? If you have Q=80-96 do you then do H=80-96? If you do, then the interpreter has to remember that this was the tempo range of the previous section and that this indicates an equivalence between the two subdivisions. By indicating approximation to start with, you've set up a puzzle based on your own suggestion. If you assume it to be specific rather than a range, then even if the performer varies it, the resulting relationship is correct and the tempo is also likely to be closer to reality. Also, the word ca. comes to mind, a very handy way of letting the tempo flex a bit. I'm not certain I understand. If your original tempo is ca. q=80 and your new tempo is ca. h=80, then would q=84 in the first section and h=78 be Ok for the new meter? Or do you mean that once you've chosen q=84, the half has to remain 84? How do you indicate flexible initial tempo but strict proportion? But keep in mind that if a performer is lax with the tempo marking, that same performer might be lax with the rhythmic relationship in the 'x=y' equation. Well, humans are not computers and there will always be a certain amount of variation. But one hopes that it's within a certain reasonable range as conceived (and, where possible, indicated) by the composer/arranger. My point is that proportions can handle all the permutations very clearly, whereas metronome marks require increasing verbosity to express the same thing. It seems to me that -q=h- is completely unambiguous and easy to understand. Or not, unless it's explained. :) Who wouldn't understand it? Seriously -- what trained musician would misinterpret it? (it also leaves open the ability to specify a loose proportion by using the = that is squiggly, i.e., two ~ atop each other) And isn't that what we want? Don't we want the interpreters of the music we're engraving to be able to perform it without scratching their heads or without having to jump back to the beginning to understand what a metronome marking means in context? Or without having to stop and check the metronome before going to the next section? Maybe not. Having squirmed through performances of my own work where the metronome markings were entirely ignored (and not because of technical difficulties), I can underscore that the more lattitude that's given, the more that will be taken. I'm not saying metronome markings should be ignored. I'm just raising the question of how helpful they are for establishing proportions between two meters. If there's no actual proportion, then a metronome mark is going to have to do (absent some tempo marking that does the job), and that's fine. But I just can't see how q=80 at the beginning and h=80 at the change of meter is going to be more easily perceived by the performer than q=80 at the beginning and -q=h- at the time change. Using the metronome marking for the
Re: [Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
On 13.02.2006 Kim Patrick Clow wrote: There is a good chance I may have some editions published in the UK; but I am a US citizen. I'm curious if anyone has suggestions or tips about doing this. The Hyperion case illustrates how differently UK laws are versus what we have in the United States. I know to copyright my own editions, I just dash off a copy to the Library of Congress. But if you have any pointers or thoughts, please feel free to let me know. I am very green in this area. I would rather learn now than find out painfully at a later date. Are you publishing your own music, or someone else's? If the latter, when was the music composed, and has it _ever_ been published before? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
I'm publishing my performing edition of 18th century baroque music. None of what I have prepared has never been published. On 2/13/06, Johannes Gebauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13.02.2006 Kim Patrick Clow wrote: There is a good chance I may have some editions published in the UK; but I am a US citizen. I'm curious if anyone has suggestions or tips about doing this. The Hyperion case illustrates how differently UK laws are versus what we have in the United States. I know to copyright my own editions, I just dash off a copy to the Library of Congress. But if you have any pointers or thoughts, please feel free to let me know. I am very green in this area. I would rather learn now than find out painfully at a later date.Are you publishing your own music, or someone else's? If the latter, when was the music composed, and has it _ever_ been published before?Johannes--http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale-- Kim Patrick ClowThere's really only two types of music: good and bad. ~ Rossini ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT library
On 13 Feb 2006 at 17:28, Margaret whitby wrote: FileMaker Pro 8 is now out and converts files to Excel with 1 click of the mouse. Any version from 3 to 6 will convert to 7 and 8 but 1 and 2 must first be converted to 3,4,5 or 6. I have had our Community Orchestra's Library, personnel list and other info on FMPro for probably 15 or 20 years and its fantastic. There was a learning curve but it was very well worth while Well, everyone is recommending their own solutions, but no one has mentioned Microsoft Access, which basically invented the widely available GUI desktop database program (Paradox actually got there first, but they lost their developer community with the necessary migration to ObjectPAL; they lost me, for instance). Lots of people have MS Access installed on their computers as part of the MS Office suite, and it's very easy to use. It is not cross-platform, though, and doesn't come with the capability to put the database up on a web page (as does Filemaker). However, it's substantially more powerful and versatile than Filemaker, which perhaps makes it overkill for many people. I'd recommend avoiding a spreadsheet solution, though, as one quickly runs into problems with that because the objects you're storing information about don't lend themselves well to using a single table for storing information about them. A spreadsheet library list will be quickly outgrown, in my opinion, so it's better to start in a real database program, whichever one it may be. But it is not a trivial task at all. If it appears to be one, then you haven't really given it very thorough thought, and the problems will make themselves apparent pretty quickly. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Incorrect display of notes in 2006D Finale (on Mac)
Just started using 2006d. Had the 2006 sitting here a long time since I didn't want to upgrade in the middle of projects. Overall, it is working well. In playback, if I start and stop too fast, it continues to play for another 30 to 50 bars past where I wanted to stop or the end of the piece (whichever comes first). I had heard that there was a stuck note problem in 2006 so I guess this is it. I am finding the display of notes inaccurate. Some staves will display correctly and others will not. I tried to figure out if there was pattern. It seems that the staves towards middle of the score are most affected. Right now I have a 14 lines score. I am orchestrating from Finale 2006 files given to me by the composer. They are piano and vocal and I'm adding synth, woodwind, and have a new piano group and bass and drums. Right now the tenor sax part and left hand of the edited piano group have notes that appear to almost be a 2nd lower than they should. It is very hard to read them. I first noticed it when I saw notes that looked like the stem was in the wrong direction. I then saw that the notes appeared to be A's and but they were really B's in the middle of a treble clef and that is why they had down stems. Right now, some of the LH of the piano is ok but most of the sax part is very difficult to read. I am just noticing that the ledger-lined notes below the staff are displaying correctly. It is mostly notes in the middle of the staff. Yes, I see now that it is all notes inside the staff starting with concert D below the staff in treble clef that display incorrectly on the staffs that have the problem. Most other staves display ok. Sure makes it difficult to read. Anyone else have this problem. Does MakeMusic know about it? Have there been any workarounds or fixes. I wonder if a Finale 2006E is planned soon? Thanks, Bonnie Bonnie Ruth Janofsky composer / songwriter 818-784-4466 www.BonnieRuthJanofsky.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
On 13.02.2006 Kim Patrick Clow wrote: I'm publishing my performing edition of 18th century baroque music. None of what I have prepared has never been published. I can only tell you what is true in Germany, but I assume that Europe is very similar: As long as you note the copyright in the edition, there is nothing else you have to do. The music itself obviously cannot be copyrighted, nor can you (or do you have to) get the sole publication rights (since the music had been published before, it makes no difference when this was). Don't take my word for it, I don't know the UK laws, nor am I an expert on music copyrights, but I don't think there is anything else you need to do. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
PS: You may have to send copies to the British Library and other complete book archives (I believe the Cambridge University Library may have this status, and perhaps also the Bodleian Library in Oxford? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Incorrect display of notes in 2006D Finale (on Mac)
Bonnie,Program Options - View _ Line Smoothing - turn on "Smooth Staff Lines".With the new Quartz smoothing in FinMac2006, notes can appear slightly above or below certain staff lines when this option is turned off -- especially when the view is 100% or less.The reasons for this are complicated, and not everyone likes the staff line "doubling" that happens when you turn on staff line smoothing, but it's necessary to avoid the appearance of misaligned noteheads. - Darcy-[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://secretsociety.typepad.comBrooklyn, NY On 13 Feb 2006, at 6:00 PM, Bonnie Janofsky wrote:Just started using 2006d. Had the 2006 sitting here a long time since I didn't want to upgrade in the middle of projects.Overall, it is working well. In playback, if I start and stop too fast, it continues to play for another 30 to 50 bars past where I wanted to stop or the end of the piece (whichever comes first). I had heard that there was a "stuck note" problem in 2006 so I guess this is it.I am finding the display of notes inaccurate. Some staves will display correctly and others will not. I tried to figure out if there was pattern. It seems that the staves towards middle of the score are most affected. Right now I have a 14 lines score. I am orchestrating from Finale 2006 files given to me by the composer. They are piano and vocal and I'm adding synth, woodwind, and have a new piano group and bass and drums. Right now the tenor sax part and left hand of the edited piano group have notes that appear to almost be a 2nd lower than they should. It is very hard to read them. I first noticed it when I saw notes that looked like the stem was in the wrong direction. I then saw that the notes appeared to be "A's" and but they were really "B's" in the middle of a treble clef and that is why they had down stems. Right now, some of the LH of the piano is ok but most of the sax part is very difficult to read. I am just noticing that the ledger-lined notes below the staff are displaying correctly. It is mostly notes in the middle of the staff. Yes, I see now that it is all notes inside the staff starting with concert D below the staff in treble clef that display incorrectly on the staffs that have the problem. Most other staves display ok. Sure makes it difficult to read.Anyone else have this problem. Does MakeMusic know about it? Have there been any workarounds or fixes. I wonder if a Finale 2006E is planned soon?Thanks, BonnieBonnie Ruth Janofskycomposer / songwriter818-784-4466www.BonnieRuthJanofsky.com___Finale mailing listFinale@shsu.eduhttp://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
Kim Patrick Clow wrote: There is a good chance I may have some editions published in the UK; but I am a US citizen. If these editions are being published by an entity domiciled in the UK, let them handle it. Also, read circular 38a published by the U.S. copyright office. I know to copyright my own editions, I just dash off a copy to the Library of Congress. No. To _claim_ a copyright your own editions, you put them in fixed form; to _register_ your copyright in the U.S., you send a copy to the Library of Congress, and pay the registration fee. In the UK, there is a typographical copyright, which provides your edition with 25 years of protection from duplication of appearance (I may not make a photocopy of your edition), but not content (I can take your edition, and hand copy the music) without respect to whether your edition contains new content, or not. If your edition corrects numerous errors, updates notational conventions, restores omitted sections, etc., then you would have a claim of original copyright in the U.S. and based upon the findings in the Hyperion case, in the UK. If you have merely re-engraved, correcting a few obvious errors in the process, then you might not have enough new material to sustain your copyright in the event of a challenge in the U.S. Just my informed personal opinion, I am not a lawyer in any jurisdiction, either in real life, or on the internet. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
On 14 Feb 2006 at 0:01, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 13.02.2006 Kim Patrick Clow wrote: I'm publishing my performing edition of 18th century baroque music. None of what I have prepared has never been published. I can only tell you what is true in Germany, but I assume that Europe is very similar: As long as you note the copyright in the edition, there is nothing else you have to do. The music itself obviously cannot be copyrighted, nor can you (or do you have to) get the sole publication rights (since the music had been published before, it makes no difference when this was). Don't take my word for it, I don't know the UK laws, nor am I an expert on music copyrights, but I don't think there is anything else you need to do. The UK is a different animal after the conclusion of the Sawkins/Hyperion case, where an editor was given rights in the recording equal to a composer (more or less). I'm not sure how this effects printed copyright, but it definitely shows that things in the UK are not like elsewhere in regard to copyright law. Personally, even as a musicologist, I think the Sawkins decision was woefully misguided. The judge really didn't understand the issues, seems to me, and Sawkins seemed to want to have his cake and eat it, too. If his goal was to recover the composer's original (lost) text, how could he claim authorship in it? And the judge took evidence about a different edition of the same work where the reconstructed parts differed from Sawkins's parts by only a few notes, and took these tiny differences as evidence of Sawkins's right to authorship! The commonsense conclusion from my point of view is that the near- identical reconstructions demonstrate precisely how much the notes were dictated by the original composer's work. I have a long article posted in a different forum that criticises the Sawkins decision in some detail. I'll send it to anyone who's interested. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT library
Hi all- David wrote: no one has mentioned Microsoft Access, and It is not cross-platform, though, and doesn't come with the capability to put the database up on a web page (as does Filemaker). While I mentioned adapting an Excel spreadsheet from Musicanet as a catalogue, I use an Access database for all my commercial web-based data. While it's true that it's not cross-platform, it does allow the database to be displayed as html. It has wizards that let you create html pages, reading and writing to the database as needed automatically, and that can be done from from any computer with a web browser- so technically it is accessible via any platform. Lastly, for those who run Access on WinXP Pro OS there's no need to have an outsider server, so it's a good inhouse solution. And it *is* versatile and powerful, as David says. Cecil Rigby [EMAIL PROTECTED] (personal) www.harrockhall.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Encore imports
Hi Jim, What became of NIFF, if anything? NIFF was little-used outside the scanner community, and is now generally considered obsolete: http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/personnel/Belkin/NIFF.doc.html Is MusicXML some outgrowth of NIFF? MusicXML has similar goals of being a music notation interchange format, but just about everything else is different. For more information about some of the technical differences, see: http://www.recordare.com/xml/faq.html#ExistingFormat http://www.idealliance.org/papers/xml2001/papers/html/03-04-05.html Best regards, Michael Good Recordare LLC www.recordare.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band - now overplaying brass, more
This just reminds me of an old recording I heard a few times (cannot find it now - though I haven't searched extensively) of Sousa Marches - played under the direction of his descendants. It was so much lighter and more transparent than the versions with which we are familiar that it sounded almost Mozartean. Part of this was a result of scoring (fewer instruments per section) and part from interpretation. Mark your score Non-Bombastico! Not only that, Chuck, but the (low) brass instruments were MUCH smaller in Sousa's days than they are now. I soloed a couple years ago on a double-bell euphonium that used to belong to one of Sousa's Euphonium players and it was a pea shooter of the first order--smaller bore than today's student models! Many of the Eb tubas of that vintage were the same bore size as my Willson Euphonium pitched a FIFTH higher. Simone Mantia's trombone was smaller bore than a current King 2B. My experience with high brass is not as extensive, but my guess is that there were both Cornets and Trumpets in the old bands, which also would have taken some of the edge off the sound as well. One of Harvey Phillips's biggest gripes with current orchestral brass playing, esp. in the trombones/tuba, is the sheer SIZE of the instruments and the associated volume. Have you seen live performances with the plastic shields up isolating the brass? Some of those things they call 6/4 tubas are scary.! ..more than one famous orchestral player blew their chops out from playing those things. They need to be licensed. I would also talk about bass trombones, but Louisville is not far from Indianapolis, and Mr. Horton might wrap his triple-trigger bi-valve low BBB XL-bore nitro-cylindrical confabulator around my size 16.5 neck seven or eight times. Jim W. You know what happens when you assume don't you?Speaking of Sousa marches, as an example, I got so tired of waiting for conductors, or first trumpet players, to do _anything_ toward performance practice, (brass lay out second strain first time, ditto last strain first time, etc.) that I just started speaking up, every time we get one, and suggesting it myself. And, as far as overplaying brass in general - we used to have a trumpet player like that - but we don't any more. We shipped him up to teach at a large music-factory/university a few miles to your southeast. That's all I'll say. (My bi-valve low BBB XL-bore nitro-cylindrical confabulator only has two triggers, anyway.) RBH Louisville Orchestra You know you may not have us to kick around for long? This is the worst contract mess yet - our Board of Directors seems to be hell-bent on Chapter Seven (full liquidation) and trying to replace it in a year or so with something smaller and cheaper. They pretended to negotiate for three sessions, then pulled their offer from the table. Our contract doesn't even expire until August! Right now they say they won't even go to mediation unless we agree to a smaller orchestra first. They want something like Owensboro (a small city in Kentucky) that buses in kids from IU to fill out every concert. Sigh - This orchestra has a 70 year history, and they seem to be ready to give it up that easily. http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060121/NEWS01/601210418 http://www.savethelo.org/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band
On Feb 13, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: I would also talk about bass trombones, but Louisville is not far from Indianapolis, and Mr. Horton might wrap his triple-trigger bi-valve low BBB XL-bore nitro-cylindrical confabulator around my size 16.5 neck seven or eight times. Jim W. Hey, we bass trombonists play with dynamics! Fortissimo is a dynamic! Christopher (Quote of the year: Whaddya mean, play with more dynamics? I'm already playing as loud as I can!) 8-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Scoring for Band - now overplaying brass, more
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Raymond Horton Sent: Mon 13-Feb-06 21:19 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band - now overplaying brass, more This just reminds me of an old recording I heard a few times (cannot find it now - though I haven't searched extensively) of Sousa Marches - played under the direction of his descendants. It was so much lighter and more transparent than the versions with which we are familiar that it sounded almost Mozartean. Part of this was a result of scoring (fewer instruments per section) and part from interpretation. Mark your score Non-Bombastico! Not only that, Chuck, but the (low) brass instruments were MUCH smaller in Sousa's days than they are now. I soloed a couple years ago on a double-bell euphonium that used to belong to one of Sousa's Euphonium players and it was a pea shooter of the first order--smaller bore than today's student models! Many of the Eb tubas of that vintage were the same bore size as my Willson Euphonium pitched a FIFTH higher. Simone Mantia's trombone was smaller bore than a current King 2B. My experience with high brass is not as extensive, but my guess is that there were both Cornets and Trumpets in the old bands, which also would have taken some of the edge off the sound as well. One of Harvey Phillips's biggest gripes with current orchestral brass playing, esp. in the trombones/tuba, is the sheer SIZE of the instruments and the associated volume. Have you seen live performances with the plastic shields up isolating the brass? Some of those things they call 6/4 tubas are scary.! ..more than one famous orchestral player blew their chops out from playing those things. They need to be licensed. I would also talk about bass trombones, but Louisville is not far from Indianapolis, and Mr. Horton might wrap his triple-trigger bi-valve low BBB XL-bore nitro-cylindrical confabulator around my size 16.5 neck seven or eight times. Jim W. You know what happens when you assume don't you? Yeah. Speaking of Sousa marches, as an example, I got so tired of waiting for conductors, or first trumpet players, to do _anything_ toward performance practice, (brass lay out second strain first time, ditto last strain first time, etc.) that I just started speaking up, every time we get one, and suggesting it myself. Bravo! And, as far as overplaying brass in general - we used to have a trumpet player like that - but we don't any more. We shipped him up to teach at a large music-factory/university a few miles to your southeast. That's all I'll say. Understood. That says it all. Not sure if it's become any different with the passage of time. (My bi-valve low BBB XL-bore nitro-cylindrical confabulator only has two triggers, anyway.) http://www.orchestralibrary.com/instruments/Strandbone3.jpg Check this out--is it a contrabass? If so, am I right that it's a totally different setup/wrap than the usual contra? You know you may not have us to kick around for long? This is the worst contract mess yet - our Board of Directors seems to be hell-bent on Chapter Seven (full liquidation) and trying to replace it in a year or so with something smaller and cheaper. They pretended to negotiate for three sessions, then pulled their offer from the table. Our contract doesn't even expire until August! Right now they say they won't even go to mediation unless we agree to a smaller orchestra first. They want something like Owensboro (a small city in Kentucky) that buses in kids from IU to fill out every concert. Sigh - This orchestra has a 70 year history, and they seem to be ready to give it up that easily. Sad stuff...I met Art Hicks in 1970 or so through Lee Richardson, who used to live in Louisville before he went to Florida, first for the Florida Symphony (now gone, yes?) then to Disney because the pay was so much better. Art had either just gotten back from Israel or was about to go--can't remember. I was at Indiana U (played a lot, studied with H. Phillips, but was not a music major) and lived across the hall from one of your bass players--Mike Chmielewski (or however he spells it) also knew his wife Sue. Again assuming, I hope they're still together. One never knows! Jim W. http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060121/NEWS01/601210418 http://www.savethelo.org/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale winmail.dat___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Scoring for Band--Public Thanks
Listers, I have learned a great deal from your responses to my post. Thanx to all of you for taking my request seriously and sharing your wisdom! I'll post a couple individual items then move offlist if necessary. I am in the process of acquiring most all of the sources mentioned and will indeed trust my instinct and experience [to some extent anyway ;-) ] Jim W. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Christopher Smith Sent: Mon 13-Feb-06 22:07 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Scoring for Band On Feb 13, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: I would also talk about bass trombones, but Louisville is not far from Indianapolis, and Mr. Horton might wrap his triple-trigger bi-valve low BBB XL-bore nitro-cylindrical confabulator around my size 16.5 neck seven or eight times. Jim W. Hey, we bass trombonists play with dynamics! Fortissimo is a dynamic! Christopher (Quote of the year: Whaddya mean, play with more dynamics? I'm already playing as loud as I can!) 8-) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale winmail.dat___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: Schubert symphony E Major
Les, Thanks: playing trombone in a couple of orchestras in the NYC area, I wanted to know if I'd be playing if I was successful in suggesting the piece to be performed! -Steve In a message dated 2/13/06 6:16:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Mariposa Symphony Orchestra [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: Schubert symphony E Major Hi, Steve -- 2,2,2,2/4,2,3,0/timp/strings. The Newbould completion of #7, which is identical to the Weingartner scoring - both call for that orchestration; Schubert's original score had 14 staves - which was uncharacteristic for his usual piano-score-with-subsequent-orchestration style. Because this work calls for 4 horns it is the largest orchestra for which Schubert composed (the b-minor and 'Great' C both call for nearly the same-sized orchestra but with only 2 horns.) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Editions and Publishing Rights
On 14.02.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: The UK is a different animal after the conclusion of the Sawkins/Hyperion case, where an editor was given rights in the recording equal to a composer (more or less). I'm not sure how this effects printed copyright, but it definitely shows that things in the UK are not like elsewhere in regard to copyright law. On the other hand, there have been European Court decisions on printed music copyrights, and I am sure the UK is also bound to these. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
