Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Dean M. Estabrook

Very good!  Ah, the mind runs rampant.

Dean

On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:44 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:


More like an Under-the-Counter Tenor.


Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
At 07:36 PM 6/14/06 -0700, Dean M. Estabrook wrote:
>Would this make  you a DIScounter tenor?  Didn't PDQ Bach use that  
>term in something, or was it Bargain Counter Tenor?

More like an Under-the-Counter Tenor. 

And yes, PDQ's was a bargain counter tenor. :)

Dennis



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Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Dean M. Estabrook

Dennis:

Would this make  you a DIScounter tenor?  Didn't PDQ Bach use that  
term in something, or was it Bargain Counter Tenor?


Dean

On Jun 14, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote:



 I was wrong on being a good countertenor, so maybe I'm wrong on
those syllables, too. :)

Dennis




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Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Richard Yates
Perfect!

> However, you may find this interesting. I just checked my library, and I
> have two different versions of this text. One edition reworks the words to
> conform to the rhythm rather than the rhyme:
>   "Come shape of rest, and shadow of my end."


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Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
At 06:04 PM 6/14/06 -0700, Richard Yates wrote:
>Thanks, Dennis. I shows that I really do not know what i am doing with this.
>I was trying to match up syllables to the exact verse one notes. I guess I
>have to put in different layer two notes for verse two lyrics. Is that how
>it is done? (I cringe at asking what I know is a completely ignorant
>question).

Layers would do it, but I'm not much of a notation expert in how to
indicate early music. Most of my knowledge is old scholarship, as I stopped
studying early music by the mid-1970s, when all you got was a melody and
had to fit the words as best you could.

However, you may find this interesting. I just checked my library, and I
have two different versions of this text. One edition reworks the words to
conform to the rhythm rather than the rhyme: 
  "Come shape of rest, and shadow of my end."

I think I'll defer to the real early music experts here!

Dennis



>- Original Message - 
>From: "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT
>
>
>> At 05:34 PM 6/14/06 -0700, Richard Yates wrote:
>> >http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/ComeHeavySleep.gif
>> >How would you match up syllables to notes in the second verse which
>begins:
>> >"Come, shadow of my end, and shape of rest"?
>>
>> I've sung this, albeit many years ago (1969). In conjuring up the physical
>> memory, it came out of my mouth just now this way: Quarter rest, half note
>> (come), quarter tied across bar to eighth (shad-) eighth (ow), two eighths
>> (of my) half (end). eighth rest, eighth (and) two slurred eighths (shape)
>> two slurred quarters (of) half (rest).
>>
>> I have no idea if that's the standard way, but lo those many years ago I
>> had imagined myself a darn good countertenor and gave a full concert of
>> Dowland. I was wrong on being a good countertenor, so maybe I'm wrong on
>> those syllables, too. :)
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Please participate in my latest project:
>> http://maltedmedia.com/waam/
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Richard Yates
Thanks, Dennis. I shows that I really do not know what i am doing with this.
I was trying to match up syllables to the exact verse one notes. I guess I
have to put in different layer two notes for verse two lyrics. Is that how
it is done? (I cringe at asking what I know is a completely ignorant
question).

RY

(Ignore my previous note to ignore my origninal post)


- Original Message - 
From: "Dennis Bathory-Kitsz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT


> At 05:34 PM 6/14/06 -0700, Richard Yates wrote:
> >http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/ComeHeavySleep.gif
> >How would you match up syllables to notes in the second verse which
begins:
> >"Come, shadow of my end, and shape of rest"?
>
> I've sung this, albeit many years ago (1969). In conjuring up the physical
> memory, it came out of my mouth just now this way: Quarter rest, half note
> (come), quarter tied across bar to eighth (shad-) eighth (ow), two eighths
> (of my) half (end). eighth rest, eighth (and) two slurred eighths (shape)
> two slurred quarters (of) half (rest).
>
> I have no idea if that's the standard way, but lo those many years ago I
> had imagined myself a darn good countertenor and gave a full concert of
> Dowland. I was wrong on being a good countertenor, so maybe I'm wrong on
> those syllables, too. :)
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Please participate in my latest project:
> http://maltedmedia.com/waam/
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>


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Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Dennis Bathory-Kitsz
At 05:34 PM 6/14/06 -0700, Richard Yates wrote:
>http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/ComeHeavySleep.gif
>How would you match up syllables to notes in the second verse which begins:
>"Come, shadow of my end, and shape of rest"?

I've sung this, albeit many years ago (1969). In conjuring up the physical
memory, it came out of my mouth just now this way: Quarter rest, half note
(come), quarter tied across bar to eighth (shad-) eighth (ow), two eighths
(of my) half (end). eighth rest, eighth (and) two slurred eighths (shape)
two slurred quarters (of) half (rest).

I have no idea if that's the standard way, but lo those many years ago I
had imagined myself a darn good countertenor and gave a full concert of
Dowland. I was wrong on being a good countertenor, so maybe I'm wrong on
those syllables, too. :)

Dennis




-- 

Please participate in my latest project:
http://maltedmedia.com/waam/



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Re: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Richard Yates
Never mind - figured it out (I think). Stay tuned, though. I am sure other
mysteries will pop up. So far Type into Score seems to work fine.

RY

- Original Message - 
From: "Richard Yates" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 5:34 PM
Subject: [Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT


> I have used Finale for years but am a novice with lyrics. I am trying to
put
> together some performing editions from Dowland's lute songs. The edition I
> have has the first verse under the notes and the second verse in stanza
form
> separately. I would like to put verse two under the notes but I simply
> cannot imagine how verse two syllables are supposed to match up to the
notes
> of the first line.
>
> Here is the first line with the first verse:
>
> http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/ComeHeavySleep.gif
>
> How would you match up syllables to notes in the second verse which
begins:
> "Come, shadow of my end, and shape of rest"?
>
> (I'm sorry this isn't really a Finale question, but you folks are my best
> music resource.)
>
> Richard Yates
>
>
>
>
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[Finale] Lyrics puzzle - sort of OT

2006-06-14 Thread Richard Yates
I have used Finale for years but am a novice with lyrics. I am trying to put
together some performing editions from Dowland's lute songs. The edition I
have has the first verse under the notes and the second verse in stanza form
separately. I would like to put verse two under the notes but I simply
cannot imagine how verse two syllables are supposed to match up to the notes
of the first line.

Here is the first line with the first verse:

http://www.yatesguitar.com/misc/ComeHeavySleep.gif

How would you match up syllables to notes in the second verse which begins:
"Come, shadow of my end, and shape of rest"?

(I'm sorry this isn't really a Finale question, but you folks are my best
music resource.)

Richard Yates




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Re: [Finale] PDFs and Finale Files via the Internet

2006-06-14 Thread Richard Yates
> But the publisher I sent the file to mentioned that the sizes were pretty
> huge.

This seems odd. pdf and ps formats generally have much smaller file sizes
than bitmapped ones - like tif. But even tif is not so bad these days with
the enormous memories that most computers have. And a publisher, of all
people, should have the needed capacity.

How big were they?

Richard Yates


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Re: [Finale] PDFs and Finale Files via the Internet

2006-06-14 Thread Richard Yates
> I'm not getting part of this discussion.
>
> Aren't PDFs created from Finale files (not scans) just mathematical
> equations describing the lines and curves? So they will retain the
> exact same resolution no matter what? So any discussions of DPI are not
> germane to the topic, as they have no effect on the output, which will
> be at the maximum resolution of the printer no matter what?

Yes, that is correct. There is however, some increase in pdf file size with
increasing resolution. This is because the file must include, in addition to
the instructions for drawing the characters, information about where to
place them. Increased resolution adds to the precision of these placement
numbers and takes more significant digits.

> > No.  the quality of a 300 DPI image will  have less detail than a 1200
> > dpi image.   however, a if the 300 dpi image is one megabyte, a 1200
> > dpi image will be sixteen megabytes.  The common intermediate value,
> > 600 dpi, will be four megabytes.

I do not think that is at all correct for pdf and ps files. Those numbers
apply to uncompressed bit maps (like tif).

Richard Yates


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Re: [Finale] PDFs and Finale Files via the Internet

2006-06-14 Thread Brennon Bortz
Well, I've been having problems using the built-in PDF engine in OS X--a
whole slew of them, actually.  Sometimes it crashes Finale altogether (lost
quite a bit of work that way, once), and I consistently have problems
getting all the fonts packaged into the PDF.

Also, there are so few options under one's control when using the built-in
Mac PDF engine.  It may be just me, but I like having at least a bit of
control over my resulting PDF.

--Brennon


On 6/14/06 2:52 PM, "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I'm not getting part of this discussion.
> 
> Aren't PDFs created from Finale files (not scans) just mathematical
> equations describing the lines and curves? So they will retain the
> exact same resolution no matter what? So any discussions of DPI are not
> germane to the topic, as they have no effect on the output, which will
> be at the maximum resolution of the printer no matter what?
> 
> Once this was explained to me, I had no qualms about using the Mac's
> built-in PDF engine. Is there a reason why Brennon Bortz (on a Mac)
> wouldn't use the built-in PDF engine to make his PDFs?
> 
> Christopher
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:00 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:
> 
>> Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
>>> Music engravings have a lot of curves and shapes that have curved
>>> edges.  Since most laser jet printers are 1200 DPI.
>>> I assumed when I created a PDF, I should opt for the highest possible
>>> quality setting (printer's quality); and picked 1200 DPI.
>>> 
>>> But the publisher I sent the file to mentioned that the sizes were
>>> pretty huge.
>> I'll break the answer into two parts.  If I'm saving graphics images,
>> I save the image in the highest resolution available to me.  The
>> reason for this is that if the image needs to be a different
>> resolution for some reason, it is trivial to import the image into a
>> graphics program, and reduce the resolution, but I find the results of
>> importing an image and attempting to increase the resolution
>> unsatisfactory. .
>> 
>> Part two:  when called upon to submit work, I always ask for details
>> about how the work should be submitted--format, and if a graphics
>> image, what resolution.  I have one client for whom I do work who
>> specifically does _not_ want ~.pdf files, preferring ~.tif files, or a
>> ~.ps printer file.
>>> Will the quality be the same at 300 DPI versus 1200?
>> No.  the quality of a 300 DPI image will  have less detail than a 1200
>> dpi image.   however, a if the 300 dpi image is one megabyte, a 1200
>> dpi image will be sixteen megabytes.  The common intermediate value,
>> 600 dpi, will be four megabytes.
>>> Am I creating Godzilla PDFs when a Bambi one will suffice? :-)
>> The publisher is most likely to have the answer to this question.
>> 
>> ns
> 
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University of California, Riverside
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Re: [Finale] PDFs and Finale Files via the Internet

2006-06-14 Thread Christopher Smith

I'm not getting part of this discussion.

Aren't PDFs created from Finale files (not scans) just mathematical 
equations describing the lines and curves? So they will retain the 
exact same resolution no matter what? So any discussions of DPI are not 
germane to the topic, as they have no effect on the output, which will 
be at the maximum resolution of the printer no matter what?


Once this was explained to me, I had no qualms about using the Mac's 
built-in PDF engine. Is there a reason why Brennon Bortz (on a Mac) 
wouldn't use the built-in PDF engine to make his PDFs?


Christopher



On Jun 14, 2006, at 4:00 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote:


Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Music engravings have a lot of curves and shapes that have curved 
edges.  Since most laser jet printers are 1200 DPI.
I assumed when I created a PDF, I should opt for the highest possible 
quality setting (printer's quality); and picked 1200 DPI.


But the publisher I sent the file to mentioned that the sizes were 
pretty huge.
I'll break the answer into two parts.  If I'm saving graphics images, 
I save the image in the highest resolution available to me.  The 
reason for this is that if the image needs to be a different 
resolution for some reason, it is trivial to import the image into a 
graphics program, and reduce the resolution, but I find the results of 
importing an image and attempting to increase the resolution 
unsatisfactory. .


Part two:  when called upon to submit work, I always ask for details 
about how the work should be submitted--format, and if a graphics 
image, what resolution.  I have one client for whom I do work who 
specifically does _not_ want ~.pdf files, preferring ~.tif files, or a 
~.ps printer file.

Will the quality be the same at 300 DPI versus 1200?
No.  the quality of a 300 DPI image will  have less detail than a 1200 
dpi image.   however, a if the 300 dpi image is one megabyte, a 1200 
dpi image will be sixteen megabytes.  The common intermediate value, 
600 dpi, will be four megabytes.

Am I creating Godzilla PDFs when a Bambi one will suffice? :-)

The publisher is most likely to have the answer to this question.

ns


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RE: [Finale] OT. Identification.

2006-06-14 Thread keith helgesen
Thanks to Phil and Michael.

I will work on this.

Very different from my image of 'pre-computer' system!
I visualised an old man sat in a room with masses of index cards. 
Music was broken down to something like 5-1-1--71-3-3-2-5-etc (in
quaver=220) = (Hark the herald angels sing) Then somehow he compared it to
millions of cards with all variations of same!

Modern method must be better!

Thanks again.
K in OZ


Keith Helgesen.
Director of Music, Canberra City Band.
Ph: (02) 62910787. Mob 0417-042171

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Phil Daley
Sent: Wednesday, 14 June 2006 8:39 PM
To: finale@shsu.edu
Subject: Re: [Finale] OT. Identification.

Here's another one:

http://www.melodyhound.com/index.html


At 6/14/2006 02:39 AM, Michael Cook wrote:

 >try this: http://www.musipedia.org/
 >
 >
 >On 14 Jun 2006, at 07:32, keith helgesen wrote:
 >
 >> Recently there was a very entertaining request for identification
 >> of a melody- (I got the melody, but didn't know the answer!)

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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Re: [Finale] PDF Printing Problems

2006-06-14 Thread Scot Hanna-Weir

I suppose if it crashes the program it most certainly is...we should report.

-Scot



On 6/14/06, Brennon Bortz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This works just fine, but it's just another step...  Is this just a bug that
I have to use a workaround for?


On 6/13/06 10:11 PM, "Scot Hanna-Weir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Brennon,
>
>Have you attempted printing a postscript file and then distilling instead?
>
> On 6/13/06, Brennon Bortz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I apologize for so many messages, but I thought it important to also note
>> that this only occurs when I am printing from Finale.  Attempts to print
>> using these settings from any other programs run without a hitch.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>  Brennnon
>>
>>
>>
>>  On 6/13/06 12:13 PM, "Brennon Bortz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Correction:  I am running Finale 2006D.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>  Brennon
>>
>>
>>  On 6/13/06 12:07 PM, "Brennon Bortz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello list,
>>
>>  I am trying to print a PDF from FinMac2006/OSX.  I am running Acrobat
>> 7.0.0, Finale 2006.r3 (C, that is), and OS X 10.4.6.  Anytime I try to print
>> any Finale file as a PDF using the "Press Quality" PDF settings, Finale
>> crashes and no PDF is created.  I can print through other PDF settings with
>> the DPI set to 4000dpi with no problems.  Any ideas?
>>
>>  Thanks again,
>>  Brennon
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  B. Christopher Bortz
>>  Teaching Assistant and Graduate Student in Music Composition and Musicology
>>  University of California, Riverside
>>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Finale mailing list
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>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>>
>>
>>
>

--
B. Christopher Bortz
Teaching Assistant and Graduate Student in Music Composition and Musicology
University of California, Riverside
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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--
Scot Hanna-Weir
Music Engraver
A-R Editions, Inc.

Music Educator
---
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Re: [Finale] PDFs and Finale Files via the Internet

2006-06-14 Thread Noel Stoutenburg

Kim Patrick Clow wrote:
Music engravings have a lot of curves and shapes that have curved 
edges.  Since most laser jet printers are 1200 DPI.
I assumed when I created a PDF, I should opt for the highest possible 
quality setting (printer's quality); and picked 1200 DPI.


But the publisher I sent the file to mentioned that the sizes were 
pretty huge.
I'll break the answer into two parts.  If I'm saving graphics images, I 
save the image in the highest resolution available to me.  The reason 
for this is that if the image needs to be a different resolution for 
some reason, it is trivial to import the image into a graphics program, 
and reduce the resolution, but I find the results of importing an image 
and attempting to increase the resolution unsatisfactory. .


Part two:  when called upon to submit work, I always ask for details 
about how the work should be submitted--format, and if a graphics image, 
what resolution.  I have one client for whom I do work who specifically 
does _not_ want ~.pdf files, preferring ~.tif files, or a ~.ps printer 
file.

Will the quality be the same at 300 DPI versus 1200?
No.  the quality of a 300 DPI image will  have less detail than a 1200 
dpi image.   however, a if the 300 dpi image is one megabyte, a 1200 dpi 
image will be sixteen megabytes.  The common intermediate value, 600 
dpi, will be four megabytes.

Am I creating Godzilla PDFs when a Bambi one will suffice? :-)

The publisher is most likely to have the answer to this question.

ns



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Re: [Finale] OT: Gyorgi Ligeti 1923-2006

2006-06-14 Thread Andrew Stiller
A highly laudatory and perceptive AP obituary ran today in the 
Philadelphia Inquirer and, I assume, many other papers. I found myself 
touched that the Inquirer referred readers to its website, where they 
have put up samples of Ligeti's music.


Andrew Stiller
Kallisti Music Press
http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/

On Jun 14, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Robert Patterson wrote:

No one has mentioned this here, so I thought I would pass the word. 
Ligeti passed away on Monday. The details are at this link:


http://www.schott-music.com/news/komponistennews/show,3336.html



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Re: [Finale] PDF Printing Problems

2006-06-14 Thread Brennon Bortz
This works just fine, but it's just another step...  Is this just a bug that
I have to use a workaround for?


On 6/13/06 10:11 PM, "Scot Hanna-Weir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Brennon,
> 
>Have you attempted printing a postscript file and then distilling instead?
> 
> On 6/13/06, Brennon Bortz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> I apologize for so many messages, but I thought it important to also note
>> that this only occurs when I am printing from Finale.  Attempts to print
>> using these settings from any other programs run without a hitch.
>> 
>>  Thanks,
>>  Brennnon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  On 6/13/06 12:13 PM, "Brennon Bortz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Correction:  I am running Finale 2006D.
>> 
>>  Thanks,
>>  Brennon
>> 
>> 
>>  On 6/13/06 12:07 PM, "Brennon Bortz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hello list,
>> 
>>  I am trying to print a PDF from FinMac2006/OSX.  I am running Acrobat
>> 7.0.0, Finale 2006.r3 (C, that is), and OS X 10.4.6.  Anytime I try to print
>> any Finale file as a PDF using the "Press Quality" PDF settings, Finale
>> crashes and no PDF is created.  I can print through other PDF settings with
>> the DPI set to 4000dpi with no problems.  Any ideas?
>> 
>>  Thanks again,
>>  Brennon
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  --
>>  B. Christopher Bortz
>>  Teaching Assistant and Graduate Student in Music Composition and Musicology
>>  University of California, Riverside
>>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

-- 
B. Christopher Bortz
Teaching Assistant and Graduate Student in Music Composition and Musicology
University of California, Riverside
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [Finale] PDFs and Finale Files via the Internet

2006-06-14 Thread Phil Daley

At 6/14/2006 12:57 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote:

Music engravings have a lot of curves and shapes that have curved 
edges.  Since most laser jet printers are 1200 DPI.
I assumed when I created a PDF, I should opt for the highest possible 
quality setting (printer's quality); and picked 1200 DPI.


But the publisher I sent the file to mentioned that the sizes were pretty 
huge.


Will the quality be the same at 300 DPI versus 1200?
Am I creating Godzilla PDFs when a Bambi one will suffice? :-)


It really depends on the printer.

Some of them automagically smooth rough edges, some of them don't.

I think you need to test your output on the intended printers.


Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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[Finale] PDFs and Finale Files via the Internet

2006-06-14 Thread Kim Patrick Clow
Music engravings have a lot of curves and shapes that have curved edges.  Since most laser jet printers are 1200 DPI.I assumed when I created a PDF, I should opt for the highest possible quality setting (printer's quality); and picked 1200 DPI.
But the publisher I sent the file to mentioned that the sizes were pretty huge.
Will the quality be the same at 300 DPI versus 1200? Am I creating Godzilla PDFs when a Bambi one will suffice? :-)I use a PC (as does the publisher).Thanks so much!Kim Patrick Clow
"There's really only two types of music: good and bad." ~ Rossini 
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[Finale] OT: Gyorgi Ligeti 1923-2006

2006-06-14 Thread Robert Patterson
No one has mentioned this here, so I thought I would pass the word. Ligeti 
passed away on Monday. The details are at this link:

http://www.schott-music.com/news/komponistennews/show,3336.html



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Re: [Finale] OT. Identification.

2006-06-14 Thread Phil Daley

Here's another one:

http://www.melodyhound.com/index.html


At 6/14/2006 02:39 AM, Michael Cook wrote:

>try this: http://www.musipedia.org/
>
>
>On 14 Jun 2006, at 07:32, keith helgesen wrote:
>
>> Recently there was a very entertaining request for identification
>> of a melody- (I got the melody, but didn't know the answer!)

Phil Daley  < AutoDesk >
http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley



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