Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
On 25 Feb 2008 at 1:13, Ray Horton wrote: As far as scordatura for winds That phrase makes my head hurt. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
The Young Musicians Foundation orchestra in L.A, performed Il distratto with Michael T. Thomas at the helm in the late '60s. I don't recall any particular problems, though I was watching from the horn section. Bruce Clausen - Original Message - From: Ray Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura And you've seen it played, by a pro symphony, when? RBH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't forget Haydn't Distratto (Symphony #60) in terms of re-tuning written into the music! ajr I think the phrase the exception that proves the rule comes to mind. Thanks for the example. RBH Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Ray, IIRC, when I saw her do it, Laura Frautschi made the adjustment using the pegs. And yes, the soloist finishes the concerto in the new F#C#AE tuning. The piece is on the New World Records album _Trans_ -- iTunes link here: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=215428021s=143441 Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 23 Feb 2008, at 12:07 PM, Ray Horton wrote: Solos are different. Is this done with the fine tuners or the pegs, do you know? Do the strings stay detuned for the remainder of the piece? Just curious. Thanks, RBH Darcy James Argue wrote: There is a thrilling and elegant moment near the end of Lee Hyla's (2001) Violin Concerto, where the soloist detunes the lowest two strings to F# and C# -- **in the middle of the cadenza**. The process of gradually detuning the strings is actually written into the music. I saw the premiere by Laura Frautschi (who also recorded the work with the Boston Modern Orchestra Project) and it was incredible. I'm also pretty certain she played the concerto on her good instrument, and not a beater fiddle. -- Jazz bassist Red Mitchell is famous for tuning his instrument in fifths instead of fourths -- CGDA, just like a cello, but an octave lower. He talks about it in some detail in this interview: http://www.joelquarrington.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=45Itemid=27 Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 22 Feb 2008, at 11:20 PM, Ray Horton wrote: I said that in case you were going anywhere with G-string. But if I read you incorrectly, I apologize. My daughter is a 31 year-old professional musician. You will get similar sentiments from _at least_ 90% of the pro violinists you talk to, at least the ones with good instruments. RBH shirling neueweise wrote: Tread carefully. For starters, the violinist is my daughter. in other words, you are completely unbiased on the subject 8-) mouthclosedmodeON When I asked a good violinist about detuning the G string, she said That's why God made violas. there are just too many layers of things to even begin to respond to in this... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Firebirds
At 5:54 PM + 2/23/08, Owain Sutton wrote: And far far too many supposedly-knowledgeable people don't have a full understanding of harmonics... Very definitely including those who orchestrate or copy books for Broadway shows!!! John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] 2008b still unstable
ZZZzzz *snort* wha? :-) Sorry, been on vacation for a few days... The update got pulled because some of the non-default palette graphics were missing. Globe and Traditional still work, so that's why most everyone missed it, and why some users were seeing it and others weren't. Does anyone use any palette style other than Globe or Traditional? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Dannewitz Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 2:28 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2008b still unstable It would be nice if Allen Fisher or someone else from MakeMusic could tell the list why it was pulled and what new issue or issues people who downloaded it might encounter. On 2/21/08, Michael Greensill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I downloaded 2008b late last night and it took about 20 minutes. I've used for two hours this morning with no problems. Am I lucky or what :) I've alway used the traditional tool palette so I haven't seen the tools go missing. I love that now in the finder the Finale files are pretty pictures of the first page of the scores. Mike Greensill 4 iMac 2.4 GHz Intel core 2 duo 1 GB memory Leopard 10.5.2 www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] 2008b still unstable
Chuck-- Have you tried deleting prefs since the update? You've been crashing quite a bit. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck Israels Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:18 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] 2008b still unstable After having used it for a while, 2008b still freezes on quit and does not allow a clean restart, and there are other anomalies in the windows besides the blank tool pallets. The tool pallet and playback controls do not show up on re-opening, even if they have been left open on closing. The window menu shows the items checked, but they do not appear on screen. The will re-appear after deselecting them and re-selecting them in the window menu. More irritation. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2008b still unstable
On Feb 25, 2008, at 5:27 AM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Chuck-- Have you tried deleting prefs since the update? You've been crashing quite a bit. Hi Allen, Thanks for the attention to this frustrating situation. Yes, I have rebuilt the prefs since installing 2008b. I am having a hard time knowing what's going on. This morning I woke up to an unresponsive computer, requiring a hard shutdown and reboot. (This is not a common occurrence with my system.) I anticipated all kinds of trouble getting Finale restarted after that apparent blow to its stability, and lo and behold, it restarted without incident. Damned if I can figure out what's going on. That said, there are still a few bugs in my copy of 2008b - the known empty tool pallet issue (and yes - I find the Studio Bronze style easier to see than either the Globe or Traditional styles), some selected colors on the prefs do not show up correctly and, more importantly, the clef tool does not work correctly. I have told the support people about that one. Still working on it. Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck Israels Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:18 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] 2008b still unstable After having used it for a while, 2008b still freezes on quit and does not allow a clean restart, and there are other anomalies in the windows besides the blank tool pallets. The tool pallet and playback controls do not show up on re-opening, even if they have been left open on closing. The window menu shows the items checked, but they do not appear on screen. The will re-appear after deselecting them and re-selecting them in the window menu. More irritation. Chuck Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
At 1:13 AM -0500 2/25/08, Ray Horton wrote: As far as listing unusual techniques and unusual instruments in the auditions, it depends on how many players you want to eliminate from considering the auditions. That's what I sort of figured. (Of course the teaching jobs I've held both here and at Indiana would NEVER have been advertised as they ended up. NOBODY does the strange variety of things I've done!) Sax is a good example of what I mean. Clarinet players often play sax, orchestras often need sax for pops and the occasional French piece. The next time your orchestra has a second or third clarinet opening, should you list sax as a requirement? Sure, you could, and you will get some applicants, and probably some good ones, but you won't get as many good clarinet applicants, and possibly not the best clarinet applicants. Do you want the best clarinet player you can get playing every day, or do you want to save money on those occasions when you have to hire a sax? I hear you, Ray. The regional orchestra I played in until recently does the occasional Pops concert with a star (or at least someone who passes as a star in central Virginia; hey, we've even had Jimmy Dean!). We had one such a couple of years ago, and it did call for a sax section, which was mostly filled by orchestra members who had sax as a double. Well, the bottom line was that we had 5 sax players, but we didn't have a section. And we had someone playing 1st alto, but we didn't have a lead player! Also, on that concert, the star's conductor had us set up all over the stage in a configuration where nobody could hear what they were used to hearing. In point of fact, he had us separated the way you would in a recording studio, and of course we were all miked. We violas were stuck behind the drum set, and had no chance of getting a section blend with the rest of the strings. John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
Well, there were the quarter-tone-flat-to-A-440 woodwinds in John Eaton's operas years ago... ajr On 25 Feb 2008 at 1:13, Ray Horton wrote: As far as scordatura for winds That phrase makes my head hurt. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
Gee~ I was on the stage crew for a couple of those, especially Heracles, IIRC (at least for the destruction of the sets). Between the rehearsal pianos tuned flat (some of 'em anyway) and a set of confused singers who were making it up as they went along, and the flat winds...what a circus! The stage crew that eventually destroyed those sets did so with a vengeance I had never seen before and haven't seen since. Jim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 25-Feb-08 11:56 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura Well, there were the quarter-tone-flat-to-A-440 woodwinds in John Eaton's operas years ago... ajr On 25 Feb 2008 at 1:13, Ray Horton wrote: As far as scordatura for winds That phrase makes my head hurt. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] 2008b still unstable
Fisher, Allen wrote: The update got pulled because some of the non-default palette graphics were missing. Globe and Traditional still work, so that's why most everyone missed it, and why some users were seeing it and others weren't. I didn't get a chance to pull down 2008b when it was available, but for those who did and are missing the the non-default palette graphics, apparently you can paste these in from the previous version of Finale. On the Mac, go into the package contents of Finale 2008a and copy the palettes. (Use control-click on the application to show contextual menus and Show Package Contents should be one of your choices.) The complete path is Finale 2008ContentsResourcesPalettes. Go into the package contents of Finale 2008b and replace the palettes with the old ones. They haven't changed between versions, so everything should work. Why this simple fix is taking MM so long is a mystery to me. Maybe they are fixing a few other things while they are at it! Ha ha. I'm just messing with you... ...the part about additional fixes, not the palette replacement trick. Others have tried it and report on the other list that it works just fine. Cheers, Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
Well, low B isn't exactly a staple for trombones--not quite a pedal tone, and not that versatile as a first harmonic. Esp for tenor 'bone. I've always found it worthwhile to work around the challenges of instrumental limitations to solve my problems--after, look at what Haydn pulled out of the same necessity! (Also, St. Louis Symphony did program the Distratto a buncha years ago--I didn't get to hear it, though.) ajr I had answered this before, as Carl probably assumed a double-valve bass trombone (which is standard now), but I just saw a show today where the tenor trombonist had to play a low B FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS CAREER! He is 47 and has held first trombone positions in major orchestras and played every kind of gig under the sun, and he said he didn't even know if his valve slide still moved until he had to pull it. I just thought it was funny that this subject came up, and the same week a guy with so much experience had never seen a written low B before on a gig. Of course, he IS a tenor trombonist, but just the same! C. On Feb 24, 2008, at 8:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A low b natural, such as is found in Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra? ajr John Howell wrote: OK, to ask something seriously, did you have any trouble learning to adjust your slide positions when you had to pull your F slide to E? To E?? I've played on horns that allowed you to switch it to G, but ... what possible benefit would you getb from tuning to E? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
And I was in the audience for one of those performances, and can't say that all the trouble was actually worth it!!! Definitely not a composer for the masses (I'm tempted to say definitely not a composer, but that would be unkind), but hey, he married a gorgeous woman with a breathtaking mezzo voice. (Like other opera composers we could mention!) John At 12:15 PM -0500 2/25/08, Williams, Jim wrote: Gee~ I was on the stage crew for a couple of those, especially Heracles, IIRC (at least for the destruction of the sets). Between the rehearsal pianos tuned flat (some of 'em anyway) and a set of confused singers who were making it up as they went along, and the flat winds...what a circus! The stage crew that eventually destroyed those sets did so with a vengeance I had never seen before and haven't seen since. Jim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 25-Feb-08 11:56 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura Well, there were the quarter-tone-flat-to-A-440 woodwinds in John Eaton's operas years ago... ajr On 25 Feb 2008 at 1:13, Ray Horton wrote: As far as scordatura for winds That phrase makes my head hurt. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
This would play into my earlier points concerning relative power of conductor and players, also value of instruments. RBH Bruce Clausen wrote: The Young Musicians Foundation orchestra in L.A, performed Il distratto with Michael T. Thomas at the helm in the late '60s. I don't recall any particular problems, though I was watching from the horn section. Bruce Clausen - Original Message - From: Ray Horton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura And you've seen it played, by a pro symphony, when? RBH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And don't forget Haydn't Distratto (Symphony #60) in terms of re-tuning written into the music! ajr I think the phrase the exception that proves the rule comes to mind. Thanks for the example. RBH Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Ray, IIRC, when I saw her do it, Laura Frautschi made the adjustment using the pegs. And yes, the soloist finishes the concerto in the new F#C#AE tuning. The piece is on the New World Records album _Trans_ -- iTunes link here: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?id=215428021s=143441 Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 23 Feb 2008, at 12:07 PM, Ray Horton wrote: Solos are different. Is this done with the fine tuners or the pegs, do you know? Do the strings stay detuned for the remainder of the piece? Just curious. Thanks, RBH Darcy James Argue wrote: There is a thrilling and elegant moment near the end of Lee Hyla's (2001) Violin Concerto, where the soloist detunes the lowest two strings to F# and C# -- **in the middle of the cadenza**. The process of gradually detuning the strings is actually written into the music. I saw the premiere by Laura Frautschi (who also recorded the work with the Boston Modern Orchestra Project) and it was incredible. I'm also pretty certain she played the concerto on her good instrument, and not a beater fiddle. -- Jazz bassist Red Mitchell is famous for tuning his instrument in fifths instead of fourths -- CGDA, just like a cello, but an octave lower. He talks about it in some detail in this interview: http://www.joelquarrington.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=45Itemid=27 Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 22 Feb 2008, at 11:20 PM, Ray Horton wrote: I said that in case you were going anywhere with G-string. But if I read you incorrectly, I apologize. My daughter is a 31 year-old professional musician. You will get similar sentiments from _at least_ 90% of the pro violinists you talk to, at least the ones with good instruments. RBH shirling neueweise wrote: Tread carefully. For starters, the violinist is my daughter. in other words, you are completely unbiased on the subject 8-) mouthclosedmodeON When I asked a good violinist about detuning the G string, she said That's why God made violas. there are just too many layers of things to even begin to respond to in this... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
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Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura and trombone low B
OK - that's one reported pro Distratto performance! (No report on how many, if any, of the fiddlers brought their alternate instruments.) Trombone low B: I teach my tenor trombone students to fake a low B - lipping down the C, since most of them don't have an E pull anyway. I have a nice, lighter-playing single-valve bass trombone (an old George Roberts model Holton), in addition to my orchestral double-valve Bach (on which the valves are removable). On the Holton I can fake a B very nicely. George told me he would pull to E if a B was sustained, or fake it if it was in passing. Re - Bartok: An E pull alone does not get you the Bartok glissandi, as they are B to F. Most players play them switching from two valves to one, in the middle of the gliss. Doug Yeo in Boston Symphony had an F bass with long slide (7 positions) made (like the instrument in Bartok's head). The best way, short of the latter, is to start with an E pull and have tuba player push the slide in in mid-gliss (two hands - it works!). RBH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, low B isn't exactly a staple for trombones--not quite a pedal tone, and not that versatile as a first harmonic. Esp for tenor 'bone. I've always found it worthwhile to work around the challenges of instrumental limitations to solve my problems--after, look at what Haydn pulled out of the same necessity! (Also, St. Louis Symphony did program the Distratto a buncha years ago--I didn't get to hear it, though.) ajr I had answered this before, as Carl probably assumed a double-valve bass trombone (which is standard now), but I just saw a show today where the tenor trombonist had to play a low B FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIS CAREER! He is 47 and has held first trombone positions in major orchestras and played every kind of gig under the sun, and he said he didn't even know if his valve slide still moved until he had to pull it. I just thought it was funny that this subject came up, and the same week a guy with so much experience had never seen a written low B before on a gig. Of course, he IS a tenor trombonist, but just the same! C. On Feb 24, 2008, at 8:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A low b natural, such as is found in Bartók's Concerto for Orchestra? ajr John Howell wrote: OK, to ask something seriously, did you have any trouble learning to adjust your slide positions when you had to pull your F slide to E? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura now ergobone (REALLY TAN)
Hi Jim, ErgoBone saved my career on bass trombone. I really need to send the guy in Finland a testimonial. I have a British euph and an American front-action, neither are really comfortable for me. RBH Williams, Jim wrote: Hi, Ray... Nice to see another Ergo user! The ErgoEuph works nicely as well, though I have become convinced that the euphonium is the world's LEAST ergonomic instrument, at least the top-action ones with the british side 4th valve... Jim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ray Horton Sent: Mon 25-Feb-08 1:36 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura First position - trombone - I get it! I made reference to this in another post. This retuning to which you refer on bass trombone takes a lot longer than five minutes to learn, and remains confusing forever. I know, I went back to a single-valve for a few years, a few years ago, in an effort to save my aching shoulder. When I found out about the Ergo-bone (a very nicely designed stand for the trombone while playing) I put my double valve back on, which makes 99% of retuning the valve unnecessary. RBH John Howell wrote: At 5:18 PM -0500 2/23/08, Ray Horton wrote: I'm done talking out of my area, since we now have string players weighing in. I work with them and have parented a couple, but never got _really_ comfortable out of first position, myself. Gee, that's a real limitation for a 'bone player! OK, to ask something seriously, did you have any trouble learning to adjust your slide positions when you had to pull your F slide to E? I'd be astonished if you did for more than 5 minutes. And similarly, any string player can learn to deal with finding the notes in scordatura, especially since the string length remains the same and therefore the distance between notes in each position remains the same (except, of course, for the 4th string extension on string basses). John ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.0/1296 - Release Date: 2/24/2008 12:19 PM ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
On 25 Feb 2008 at 14:25, Ray Horton wrote: This would play into my earlier points concerning relative power of conductor and players, also value of instruments. I'm certain I heard the Cleveland Orchestra do it back in the 80s when I lived in Cleveland. And just a quick Google picks up a report that they did it in 2002. I don't think your point has any merit whatsoever. It doesn't reflect anything rational about the way stringed instruments actually work. It may be true that lots of string players have voodoo ideas about their instruments, but that doesn't mean there's any basis in fact for those ideas. I talked to a professional violinist about it last night and he said the concern was totally crazy. Yes, retuning changes the balance of the instrument for the time that it's retuned, but if the instrument has nothing wrong with it physically, it will go back to its natural balance after being tuned back to standard tuning (with perhaps some slight adjustment to bridge angle). He said he used to play the Biber scordatura pieces all the time and never used a second instrument, nor encountered any problems with either of the tunings. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
On 25 Feb 2008, at 2:01 AM, Ray Horton wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: Because the sound of an open string on cello -- especially that scordatura B! -- is very different from the sound of a stopped bass string. (When the basses divide, do the top ones at least play the B without vibrato?) Pizz, very soft, not so much. Strongly disagree. Pizz open strings are every bit as distinctive as arco open strings, and detuned strings are *always* distinctive because we don't hear them that often. (In classical music, anyway -- folk fiddlers employ alternate tunings all the time.) What if the composer wants the sound of a violin section taking their bridges off? It _would be_ a striking sound, and can't be imitated any other way. Reductio ad absurdum, perhaps, but if the composer should always get exactly what he/she wants... Clearly, in this case, you'd either do it as written or refuse to play the piece. Or, in the case of a living composer, have some representative of the orchestra call up the composer and express the section's concerns. Either one is acceptable -- unilaterally substituting some other effect is not. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura and trombone low B
On 25 Feb 2008 at 14:47, Ray Horton wrote: OK - that's one reported pro Distratto performance! (No report on how many, if any, of the fiddlers brought their alternate instruments.) Some Googling turned up this: Cleveland Orchestra, 2002 http://www.andante.com/article/article.cfm?id=18550 St. Louis Symphony, 2006 http://slso.org/notes/09-29-2006.htm New York Philharmonic, 1991 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE4DF163DF932A1575AC 0A967958260sec=spon=pagewanted=all Philadelphia Orchestra, 2007 http://www.dobsonorgan.com/html/instruments/op76_philadelphia/op76_rec itals.html Philadelphia Orchestra, April 2008 http://www.philorch.org/styles/poa02e/www/prognotes_20070412.html San Francisco Symphony, 2006 http://www.sfcv.org/arts_revs/sfsym_3_14_06.php I found no evidence that Boston or Chicago had done it, but I just googled the orchestra names and Distratto to find these. It seems to me that the best professional orchestras are programming this piece *all the time*, and not a single one of the reviews mentioned any switch of instruments by the players. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I see no evidence anywhere for the idea that any professional orchestra has switched instruments when programming this popular work. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura and trombone low B
OK, you win! I looked that one up again on Wikipedia: --- In Haydn's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Haydn Symphony No. 60 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._60_%28Haydn%29 in C (/Il Distratto/), the first and second violins start the finale of this unusual six-movement symphony with the lowest string tuned to F, but tune up to G in the course of the music to create a comical effect. The title of the symphony means the absent-minded man – so it is as if the violins have forgotten to tune their strings. The music actually stops for the violins to re-tune before continuing! Haydn also uses a violin with the lowest string tuned to F in the trio of his Symphony No. 67 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._67_%28Haydn%29 in F. --- Sounds cute, and quite doable. I had not heard of it before, and assumed it was obscure, but i was obviously incorrect. My mistake. RBH David W. Fenton wrote: On 25 Feb 2008 at 14:47, Ray Horton wrote: OK - that's one reported pro Distratto performance! (No report on how many, if any, of the fiddlers brought their alternate instruments.) Some Googling turned up this: Cleveland Orchestra, 2002 http://www.andante.com/article/article.cfm?id=18550 St. Louis Symphony, 2006 http://slso.org/notes/09-29-2006.htm New York Philharmonic, 1991 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE4DF163DF932A1575AC 0A967958260sec=spon=pagewanted=all Philadelphia Orchestra, 2007 http://www.dobsonorgan.com/html/instruments/op76_philadelphia/op76_rec itals.html Philadelphia Orchestra, April 2008 http://www.philorch.org/styles/poa02e/www/prognotes_20070412.html San Francisco Symphony, 2006 http://www.sfcv.org/arts_revs/sfsym_3_14_06.php I found no evidence that Boston or Chicago had done it, but I just googled the orchestra names and Distratto to find these. It seems to me that the best professional orchestras are programming this piece *all the time*, and not a single one of the reviews mentioned any switch of instruments by the players. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I see no evidence anywhere for the idea that any professional orchestra has switched instruments when programming this popular work. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
I believe that needing perhaps some slight adjustment to bridge angle in the middle of a piece, for the entire section of violins, is exactly what we are discussing here as often impractical. RBH David W. Fenton wrote: On 25 Feb 2008 at 14:25, Ray Horton wrote: This would play into my earlier points concerning relative power of conductor and players, also value of instruments. I'm certain I heard the Cleveland Orchestra do it back in the 80s when I lived in Cleveland. And just a quick Google picks up a report that they did it in 2002. I don't think your point has any merit whatsoever. It doesn't reflect anything rational about the way stringed instruments actually work. It may be true that lots of string players have voodoo ideas about their instruments, but that doesn't mean there's any basis in fact for those ideas. I talked to a professional violinist about it last night and he said the concern was totally crazy. Yes, retuning changes the balance of the instrument for the time that it's retuned, but if the instrument has nothing wrong with it physically, it will go back to its natural balance after being tuned back to standard tuning (with perhaps some slight adjustment to bridge angle). He said he used to play the Biber scordatura pieces all the time and never used a second instrument, nor encountered any problems with either of the tunings. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] what does a copyist do? now scordatura
On 25 Feb 2008 at 17:59, Ray Horton wrote: I believe that needing perhaps some slight adjustment to bridge angle in the middle of a piece, for the entire section of violins, is exactly what we are discussing here as often impractical. Slight adjustments to the bridge are pretty much routine, at least for viols. I check mine weekly, and have to make slight adjustments every couple or three weeks -- nothing big, just making sure it remains in proper vertical and horizontal alignment. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Percussion Diagrams
I've never written music for solo percussionist before--do you guys do percussion diagrams in Finale? is there a resource i can look to for advice on how to do this? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Percussion Diagrams
Adam Golding wrote: I've never written music for solo percussionist before--do you guys do percussion diagrams in Finale? is there a resource i can look to for advice on how to do this? Step 1: Talk to a good percussionist. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
