Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
My experience is that all written communication, including, but not exclusive to, music, is woefully impoverished compared to what is spoken, sung or played, and fonts make minimal difference. But the real rub with inkpen fonts on a computer is that the "human" elements of each symbol are reproduced identically every time resulting in a mechanical attempt at human variety that still looks mechanical. (And the Jazz font is just plain ugly to my eye - looks like bad hand copying.) Nevertheless, Robert is gifted and brilliant, and I am eager to see what he has accomplished. Chuck Sent from my iPhone On May 30, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Christopher Smith > wrote: ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
On May 31, 2009, at 12:32 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 30 May 2009 at 17:06, Christopher Smith wrote: Maybe it's because Marshall Mcluhan was Canadian (as I am) that I see his "the message is the medium" everywhere Er, McLuhan said "the medium is the message," not the other way around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ Umm, right, of course! [embarrassed fidgeting on behalf of all Canadians to get such a thing backwards] But I think my analysis stands, just the same. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Sibelius 6 :: Finale discouraging upgrades
On 30 May 2009 at 22:44, John Howell wrote: > When MS brought out WinOffice2007 their .docx files could > not be opened in ANY previous version of Word, or in Word for Mac, so > there's a limit to backward compatibility when big changes are made. But they quickly brought out file filters for older versions of Office (at least on Windows -- the Mac version was delayed an inordinately long time). MS Office document formats, and especially the Open Doc formats (which use a proprietary, though published, form of XML, i.e., text and no binary code) are substantially simpler than a database file. There is no Open Doc Access file format, because it would be completely impossible. A database filed stored in plain text is not really a database (no indexes, for instance), and would be incredibly hard to edit efficiently. Finale files are database files, with all the benefits (and complexities) that come with that. I just checked the size of a MusicXML file exported from Finale. The original file is 354KB, while the MusicXML file produced from it is 4.4MBs. That's 10x as large because it simply takes a lot more data to store a database in plain text than in a binary file. Consider that in a database file, a piece of data's meaning is defined by where it is stored in the file -- it's in a particular row of a table and in a particular column. With XML formats, every data point has to be surrounded by verbose tags describing what it is, and those tags in turn are surrounded by even more tags. So, for a single column of a data table, every row repeats the XML tags for each piece of data. That adds huge overhead to the file. But it also makes it extremely easy to interpret the data, which is, of course, the whole reason for the existince of XML, to be able to create documents with customized and flexible structures that are nonetheless easy to interpret as long as you have the document type declaration that describes what the tags mean. Thus, creating read/save filters for the Open Doc formats (which are XML) was a relatively easy task compared to creating filters for binary formats. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Sibelius 6 :: Finale discouraging upgrades
On 30 May 2009 at 20:26, Craig Parmerlee wrote: > The obvious solution is to program each release such that it can read > future files but simply ignore any elements it doesn't recognize. If > Finale worked this way, I would automatically purchase every upgrade. That is a complete impossibility without there being a freeze on the basic structure of the file format. Sure, it's possible to design an extensible file format, but that's a very complex task, especially for a database format (which is what a Finale file is). You really don't need forward compatibility. What is needed is for new versions to be able to open older versions without conversion and save them to their original format. If that were the case, upgrading would not shut you out from exchanging files with users of older versions of Finale. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
On 30 May 2009 at 19:21, Christopher Smith wrote: > Things that are not easy to accomplish in Finale or Sibelius simply > don't appear in notation very often any more. I would include some > specialised jazz notations among those items, though I think most of > Dennis' argument was based around graphic notation. This means that > the next generation might not want to see a hand-formed jazz turn > (gruppetto) and might not even recognise it, for example. Falls used > to be notated in relative length. Now that there is one, maybe two > lengths of falls in the articulation tool, we won't get that level of > detail much any more. That is actually not a new phenomenon. The old dot vs. stroke controversy c. 1800 has always struck me as an interesting example of engravers having to make decisions on which engraving tool to use when copying from a manuscript in which the staccatto marks could vary from a dot to a hasty dot that almost looks like a stroke, to strokes that are so small they look like dots, to regular strokes, and all the way to hasty strokes that are very large and sometimes lean and look like our modern tenuto marks. I am convinced from looking at Mozart's autographs is some detail that he basically used dot and stroke without any clear distinction, but there's a certain musicality to the way he writes it. That is, it's as if as he writes he's playing the music in his head and as things get more active, dots transition into strokes when, for instance, things are getting more exciting, or louder. I can't make a very good case for this from a scholarly standpoint as I never really kept track of which autographs I saw this in, but it seems to me that much of the modern interpretation of these MSS comes from the forced choice between two engraving tools, when the composers themselves had a whole bunch of gradations, none of which were necessarily notationally distinct, but which actually did go along with the music. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
On 30 May 2009 at 17:06, Christopher Smith wrote: > Maybe it's because Marshall Mcluhan was Canadian (as I am) that I see > his "the message is the medium" everywhere Er, McLuhan said "the medium is the message," not the other way around. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Sibelius 6
On May 30, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: As I see it, Finale has created a climate of resistance to their upgrades. The bugs are one factor, but for me, the much bigger factor is the lack of file-level compatibility across releases. 100 bucks for an upgrade is not much of an issue for me, even if the feature set were marginal. The real issue for me is that every time I upgrade, I separate myself from other Finale users who might be collaborators on a project here and there. You know you can keep previous versions of Finale on your computer for this purpose, right? I certainly do. I don't know if Sibelius is any better in that regard. But considering that I don't know of any product that makes its file formats obsolete every year, I'm betting that this is not a problem with Sibelius. I think "making its file formats obsolete every year" is overstating it. Old file formats can still be read, reasonably seamlessly, in new versions of Finale (pre 97 versions of Finale notwithstanding.) There would be no way to improve the program if they kept the same file format. I think we all realise that. The obvious solution is to program each release such that it can read future files but simply ignore any elements it doesn't recognize. If Finale worked this way, I would automatically purchase every upgrade. Being able to open FUTURE file types is a much bigger programming problem than maybe you think it is. Microsoft spends megabucks on this very issue. Finale doesn't have megabucks. Don't underestimate the Music XML format for interim conversion to older versions of Finale. It is not bad, and getting better all the time. I would only ever do it once on a file, though. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius 6 :: Finale discouraging upgrades
At 8:26 PM -0400 5/30/09, Craig Parmerlee wrote: The real issue for me is that every time I upgrade, I separate myself from other Finale users who might be collaborators on a project here and there. I don't know if Sibelius is any better in that regard. But considering that I don't know of any product that makes its file formats obsolete every year, I'm betting that this is not a problem with Sibelius. Basically it is not. I can open files from previous versions (back through Sibelius 2 plus their introductory "Sibelius Student") and I can then save those file in any of the previous file formats. That has been a real handy feature when I've exchanged files with my son (who still used the Sibelius 2 he was given when he was a Sibelius demonstrator in college) and with some of my students who have Sibelius 3 or Sibelius 4 (which I open in Sibelius 5 and then save as the version they have to return them). The obvious solution is to program each release such that it can read future files but simply ignore any elements it doesn't recognize. If Finale worked this way, I would automatically purchase every upgrade. Backward compatibility, yes. But I'm not sure that forward compatibility is even possible (although I lack the background to judge). When MS brought out WinOffice2007 their .docx files could not be opened in ANY previous version of Word, or in Word for Mac, so there's a limit to backward compatibility when big changes are made. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
At 7:26 PM -0400 5/30/09, Christopher Smith wrote: I write sometimes for a local orchestra that mostly plays common-practice repertoire, and very few large works, though they have pops concerts sometimes (that's my job!) Three of the hornists only play with this orchestra, and whenever my parts come back after a concert, these three parts have every sharp and flat from the key signature pencilled in! Only the second hornist, who is an active freelancer as well, reads the parts with key signatures as is. Most band hornists, on the other hand, have never learned to transpose but are quite good at reading (i.e. "remembering," which is what it is) key signatures. When I played horn I studied the orchestral excerpts books and taught myself to transpose--it was expected!--and insisted that the members of my section read the Eb band parts (about half the parts 50 years ago) on their F horns, as I did. If I put Eb parts in front of my community band players nowadays I don't think they'd have a clue! And since those are the players I recruit when our String Orchestra becomes a Chamber Orchestra, I'm very grateful for the publishers who make parts in modern transpositions and modern clefs available. I except from these comments those music majors studying their instruments with competent teachers, who make sure they can handle all the transpositions, clefs, and everything else that goes into being a working professional, but even they may know the theories but have not had a whole lot of practice. There are many differences between the orchestra and band worlds--just as many, I'd guess, as there are between the classical and jazz worlds. This is only one of them. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Sibelius 6 :: Finale discouraging upgrades
As I see it, Finale has created a climate of resistance to their upgrades. The bugs are one factor, but for me, the much bigger factor is the lack of file-level compatibility across releases. 100 bucks for an upgrade is not much of an issue for me, even if the feature set were marginal. The real issue for me is that every time I upgrade, I separate myself from other Finale users who might be collaborators on a project here and there. I don't know if Sibelius is any better in that regard. But considering that I don't know of any product that makes its file formats obsolete every year, I'm betting that this is not a problem with Sibelius. The obvious solution is to program each release such that it can read future files but simply ignore any elements it doesn't recognize. If Finale worked this way, I would automatically purchase every upgrade. dhbailey wrote: As a member of the Sibelius group at yahoogroups, I have to say that there I don't recall there being anybody who complains about the upgrade schedule. And while there are those who don't upgrade due to financial restrictions, I've never read that people aren't upgrading because they want to wait to see how the new features work and whether they really work at all, and never has anybody posted that they're skipping an upgrade because the improvements and additions in any single Sib upgrade aren't worth it. At least that I recall. One thing that Finale has done is to create a gun-shy user base, at least as indicated on this group. Many people don't jump on Finale upgrades the way they used to because of the horrible bugs which have been prevalent in the initial releases of the past several annual Finale upgrades. How many messages on this group have been of the "I'll wait until they bring out the Fin200Xa patch" which can't be helpful to the financial engine of the company. I wonder how many people hold off waiting for the first update patch to the upgrade (what a stupid thing that a company's user base has to wait for such a thing to feel comfortable with a new version) only to find that when the update patch is released the early-adopters aren't raving about how much got fixed. There must be many people who waited for the update patch and then waited an additional period for the "b" patch (not there always is one) or simply decide they were smart not to fall for that upgrade and simply wait for the next full version upgrade hoping the major bugs introduced in the current version manage to get fixed in the next full version upgrade? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
On May 30, 2009, at 6:33 PM, mu...@rgsmithmusic.com wrote: Interesting and thoughtful response. Thanks. In Berlioz' treatise on orchestration, he comments (actually I think it was from Strauss when he edited it) that horn players would rather transpose than read a key signature. Speaking for modern horn players, I think most of us (but not all) would disagree with that statement. Speaking of horn transpositions: I write sometimes for a local orchestra that mostly plays common- practice repertoire, and very few large works, though they have pops concerts sometimes (that's my job!) Three of the hornists only play with this orchestra, and whenever my parts come back after a concert, these three parts have every sharp and flat from the key signature pencilled in! Only the second hornist, who is an active freelancer as well, reads the parts with key signatures as is. I get the same thing from the timpanist, and once in a while from a trumpet player. I smile, because I know why they do it. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
On May 30, 2009, at 6:33 PM, mu...@rgsmithmusic.com wrote: Interesting and thoughtful response. Thanks. In Berlioz' treatise on orchestration, he comments (actually I think it was from Strauss when he edited it) that horn players would rather transpose than read a key signature. Speaking for modern horn players, I think most of us (but not all) would disagree with that statement. But the generation to which he was referring was the one that made the transition from hand horn to valve horn. For them transposition was normal and key sigs were not. The result is music from a few composers, Struass and Wagner are examples, that is more difficult than usual to transpose because it is very chromatic and the diatonic, general interval methods that work well in earlier music do not work as well. Do you think that this is a similar transitional phenomena? Or maybe one of those oddities of music notation which continue even though it's initial purpose is lost in history? Richard Smith Honestly, I don't know. I think parts of the phenomenon might be transitional. For example, the badly-hand-copied lead sheets that were scrawled on a scrap of staff paper during a break in rehearsal have given way to badly- engraved computer pages using the factory defaults and no attention to layout, collisions, rehearsal letters, or other details, except all of the noteheads are perfectly formed and the stems all connect to the noteheads. This means an entire generation of jazz musicians is being formed without the odd pencil cues and made-up shapes that everyone in my generation came to take for granted. Dennis B-K pointed out once in one of his conversations here on the list (it might even be in his archives on his website somewhere) that music notation, and thus the music itself, is being shaped now by Finale, Sibelius and whatever other software might be in common use. Things that are not easy to accomplish in Finale or Sibelius simply don't appear in notation very often any more. I would include some specialised jazz notations among those items, though I think most of Dennis' argument was based around graphic notation. This means that the next generation might not want to see a hand-formed jazz turn (gruppetto) and might not even recognise it, for example. Falls used to be notated in relative length. Now that there is one, maybe two lengths of falls in the articulation tool, we won't get that level of detail much any more. I think there are some oddities that will continue to be used, particularly with regards to chord symbol notation. Whether the hand- copied look will continue to be common, well, maybe that will go away eventually. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
Interesting and thoughtful response. Thanks. In Berlioz' treatise on orchestration, he comments (actually I think it was from Strauss when he edited it) that horn players would rather transpose than read a key signature. Speaking for modern horn players, I think most of us (but not all) would disagree with that statement. But the generation to which he was referring was the one that made the transition from hand horn to valve horn. For them transposition was normal and key sigs were not. The result is music from a few composers, Struass and Wagner are examples, that is more difficult than usual to transpose because it is very chromatic and the diatonic, general interval methods that work well in earlier music do not work as well. Do you think that this is a similar transitional phenomena? Or maybe one of those oddities of music notation which continue even though it's initial purpose is lost in history? Richard Smith > > > Perhaps if you observed it in two successive readings of essentially > the same music, but with a different presentation, it would make more > sense to you. I think musicians react to what they see. Hand-copied > music of a certain style brings out familiar aspects of the music to > some musicians. We all want to make the correct impression on the > musicians reading our music, and an inkpen font helps that. > > Sometimes. > > In some ways. > > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Mac Finale Time Machine
Aha! Using Time Machine, going back 7 days and restoring the entire FINALE 2009 folder did the trick! noel On May 30, 2009, at 5:48 PM, noel jones wrote: It should be simple for those of us using these programs to back up to an earlier date before the registration zapping happened...without having Time Machine restore the entire hard diskso, anyone got a clue as to which folder needs restored? noel jones ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Mac Finale Time Machine
It should be simple for those of us using these programs to back up to an earlier date before the registration zapping happened...without having Time Machine restore the entire hard diskso, anyone got a clue as to which folder needs restored? noel jones ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
I do find it fascinating that with the almost simultaneous release of Sibelius 6 and Finale 2010, it seems like the discussions on this list lean 90% to asking "what's wrong with it," while the discussions on the Sibelius list lean 90% to "how soon are they shipping?"! Or at most, to whether it's compatible with such-and-such a hardware setup. 'Nuff said. Wow..that's sad for us. Nice for the Sibelius people, though. Dana ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
mu...@rgsmithmusic.com wrote: Having written a fair amount of music by hand in my earlier years and performed more, I fail to understand why folks want a handwritten font. I understand that some think that it contributes to a more stylistic reading of some music, but that just doesn't make sense to me. To me, it seems like photographers trying to digitally insert the appearance of grain in grainless digital files so it will look like film. We spent years trying to minimize grain from film and now that that's no longer necessary, some folks want it back. I don't get it. Not trying to start a fight, just making an observation. Richard Smith For me, at least (and for many of my clients), being able to look at a piece and immediately know it's a jazz piece is a good thing. I could do all of my pieces in maestro, but the Jazz FOnt is generally preferred. It's also a little bit easier to read in bad light. Well, most parts are. cd -- http://www.livejournal.com/users/dershem/# http://members.cox.net/dershem ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
On May 30, 2009, at 4:03 PM, mu...@rgsmithmusic.com wrote: Having written a fair amount of music by hand in my earlier years and performed more, I fail to understand why folks want a handwritten font. I understand that some think that it contributes to a more stylistic reading of some music, but that just doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps if you observed it in two successive readings of essentially the same music, but with a different presentation, it would make more sense to you. I think musicians react to what they see. Hand-copied music of a certain style brings out familiar aspects of the music to some musicians. We all want to make the correct impression on the musicians reading our music, and an inkpen font helps that. Sometimes. In some ways. To me, it seems like photographers trying to digitally insert the appearance of grain in grainless digital files so it will look like film. We spent years trying to minimize grain from film and now that that's no longer necessary, some folks want it back. I don't get it. Possibly for the same reason introducing "noise" into lines and images - blurring them - makes them easier on the eye and thus easier to read. Antialiased text on your computer screen is an excellent example. The fog machine that they used when shooting scenes (usually TV) to videotape in the early days of digital video is another. But that is not really the point I am trying to make here. Maybe it's because Marshall Mcluhan was Canadian (as I am) that I see his "the message is the medium" everywhere, but it is particularly evident in computer-assisted engraving. Nobody foresaw that having perfectly regular engraved-type notation would cause musicians to treat the written part as more authoritative than hand-written music, and in music where the written part is more of a suggestion than an order, like jazz, it would get in the way of the performance. But it did. I was as surprised as anyone to observe that effect and struggled to understand it, and I think I have a handle on it. BTW, the message in the medium thingy was thoroughly explored in the film "Helvetica", a documentary about a typeface, for pete's sake! Why should a less-readable font communicate something more clearly than the most perfectly readable, neutral font ever? It does, without question. And the "neutral" font communicates a whole lot of authority, which you may or may not want. I didn't even start to address subjects like character boldness and how it affect readability, certain important items like time signatures and repeats being more evident in hand-written styles, and the lack of specialised jazz markings in the Engraver and Maestro fonts. But they are reasons to prefer specialised hand fonts, too. Not trying to start a fight, just making an observation. Richard Smith No fight started. I always welcome a civilised discussion, especially on topics that affect us all. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] MusicEd and Fingering fonts
Hey all - I wasn't sure if this list was aware of several fonts put out by my friend, Rafael Hernandez - he's put together a nice collection of woodwind and brass fingering fonts and a good MusicEd font that allows for notation in word processors (without spacing issues), solfege hand symbols and piano fingering diagrams. It seems to be popular with music educators but the fingerings can be used to designate extended techniques/multiphonics as well... http://www.musicteachertools.com/ -Rob Dr. Rob Deemer Assistant Professor of Music Head of Music Composition State University of New York at Fredonia www.robdeemer.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
Having written a fair amount of music by hand in my earlier years and performed more, I fail to understand why folks want a handwritten font. I understand that some think that it contributes to a more stylistic reading of some music, but that just doesn't make sense to me. To me, it seems like photographers trying to digitally insert the appearance of grain in grainless digital files so it will look like film. We spent years trying to minimize grain from film and now that that's no longer necessary, some folks want it back. I don't get it. Not trying to start a fight, just making an observation. Richard Smith > On May 30, 2009, at 12:00 PM, John Howell wrote: > >> At 12:00 AM -0700 5/30/09, Mike Greensill wrote: >>> I thought it might be interesting to copy and paste a posting from >>> Andrew at MM that was on the Finale Forums. >>> >>> Broadway Copyist Handwritten Music Notation Font. Finale 2010 >>> includes the new Broadway Copyist music notation font, created by >>> Robert Piechaud, designer of the esteemed November and Medieval >>> music fonts. Inspired by the golden era of handwritten Broadway >>> scores, the Broadway Copyist font offers a lighter appearance. >> > > I wonder if they just mean "lighter" as in "less bold than the > JazzFont" which might be okay, and easier-to-read text fonts in an > inkpen style. That would be a winner for me. I am seriously thinking > of designing my own font family that would be along the lines of Bill > Duncan's chord font, but in an inkpen style. I would really like an > inkpen-type font that looks like the different sizes of characters > are drawn with the same pen, instead of bigger characters looking > like they were drawn with a thicker pen. I may not know what kind of > can of worms I am opening, but... > > >> Having played quite a few of those "golden age" Broadway books, all >> I can say is that this is not necessarily the recommendation that >> MM marketing seems to think it is! >> > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Finale 2010 Rehearsal Marks
That's a very good question, which I can't answer. Measure numbers HAVE been revamped, maybe this is part of it. I dunno. Christopher On May 30, 2009, at 3:59 PM, Rob Deemer wrote: So far I've only seen the rehearsal marks discussed with letters (including reordering)...any chance that that also goes for Rehearsal Numbers (that are linked to whatever measure number the measure is displaying)? -Rob ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Finale 2010 Rehearsal Marks
So far I've only seen the rehearsal marks discussed with letters (including reordering)...any chance that that also goes for Rehearsal Numbers (that are linked to whatever measure number the measure is displaying)? -Rob ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Fin2010 announced
Improved Graphic Support. Finale now supports more graphic file types for import AND export. New import support includes JPEG, PNG, BMP, and GIF while new export support includes JPEG and PNG. If this is reliable, then this feature is reason enough for me to buy the update. When working on contemporary music scores with many graphic elements, the restriction to tiff format has often added several steps to a project. Daniel Wolf ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
On May 30, 2009, at 12:00 PM, John Howell wrote: At 12:00 AM -0700 5/30/09, Mike Greensill wrote: I thought it might be interesting to copy and paste a posting from Andrew at MM that was on the Finale Forums. Broadway Copyist Handwritten Music Notation Font. Finale 2010 includes the new Broadway Copyist music notation font, created by Robert Piechaud, designer of the esteemed November and Medieval music fonts. Inspired by the golden era of handwritten Broadway scores, the Broadway Copyist font offers a lighter appearance. I wonder if they just mean "lighter" as in "less bold than the JazzFont" which might be okay, and easier-to-read text fonts in an inkpen style. That would be a winner for me. I am seriously thinking of designing my own font family that would be along the lines of Bill Duncan's chord font, but in an inkpen style. I would really like an inkpen-type font that looks like the different sizes of characters are drawn with the same pen, instead of bigger characters looking like they were drawn with a thicker pen. I may not know what kind of can of worms I am opening, but... Having played quite a few of those "golden age" Broadway books, all I can say is that this is not necessarily the recommendation that MM marketing seems to think it is! Oh, yeah! I do find it fascinating that with the almost simultaneous release of Sibelius 6 and Finale 2010, it seems like the discussions on this list lean 90% to asking "what's wrong with it," while the discussions on the Sibelius list lean 90% to "how soon are they shipping?"! Or at most, to whether it's compatible with such- and-such a hardware setup. 'Nuff said. Yeah, but we all know that it has more to do with the average Finale user being a bit of a crank (I include myself among those!) It's kind of like oboists being nervous, tubists being jovial, and trumpet players being self-confident. It's just the nature of the job. If they ever made oboes that sound great without being dependent on a little sliver of wood, tuba parts that read like the Brandenburgs, trumpets with cack filters, and a notation software that does everything perfectly right out of the box, all those people would develop different personalities... Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Fin2010 announced
Yeah, that's my leaning too. I just hope upgrading from Mac07 isn't too labor intensive ... on the other hand, I am retired and my only deadlines (no pun intended) are pretty much self-imposed. This is excellent, because I am always most empathetic (should be considered for an appointment to a judicial bench) towards you pros who are under huge pressure and are suddenly beset by a Finale Bug. Have an excellent day ... so, how long do you figure before Fin10 is available? Dean On May 30, 2009, at 5:36 AM, Aaron Sherber wrote: On 5/30/2009 12:22 AM, Ralph Whitfield wrote: I'll spring for it just for the rehearsal marks and percussion updates. This has been my attitude for several years with Finale. Of course, we'd all like to see updates that get us really excited about a host of new features and bugfixes and which we're clearly happy to pay for. But the truth is, if the new features don't seem that exciting or extensive but still save you just a few hours of work over the course of a year, it's worth paying the $99 from a time/ money standpoint. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Canto ergo sum And, I'd rather be composing than decomposing Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Fin2010 announced
Now that's good, pragmatic info. Thanks, Dean On May 30, 2009, at 5:24 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: On May 30, 2009, at 12:22 AM, Ralph Whitfield wrote: I'll spring for it just for the rehearsal marks and percussion updates. The site and/or propaganda doesn't say how well it handles the rehearsal marks in linked parts. One of the things I really dislike is having to deal with the rehearsal marks in linked parts...having to have a regular score and a parts score. I would like to know if the rehearsal marks are handled differently in the linked parts...(and I'm still working on 2007...although I have 2009.) There was no mention of it. What is referred to is that they keep their sequence (A,B,C or 1, 2,3) automatically, though you can override that. I don't know if you can specify different font sizes in the score and parts. If you are having trouble with the rehearsal marks being microscopic in the score when they are the right size in the parts, there are a couple of different ways to deal with that. The easiest way is to make them a fixed font size. In the Maestro default they are Times 12, which means after system reduction in the parts they will be around 10. So make them 10 fixed, which makes them the right size in the parts and exactly the same size in the score no matter what the score is reduced to. If you find them too close to the staff in the score, just raise them up while holding down the override key (command on a Mac) and they will only move in the score, not the parts. The other way is to have TWO sets of rehearsal marks and set one of them to be invisible in the score and the other to be invisible in the parts. It's only a little kludgy, and you can avoid the separate parts and score files if this is the only thing causing it. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Canto ergo sum And, I'd rather be composing than decomposing Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
Well, my upgrade money is NOT going to MakeMusic. Actually, it is going to PG Music for them FINALLY releasing a Mac version of Band in a Box 2009. http://pgmusic.com/mac.htm Little off topic, but...whoohoo On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, John Howell wrote: > At 12:00 AM -0700 5/30/09, Mike Greensill wrote: >> >> I thought it might be interesting to copy and paste a posting from Andrew >> at MM that was on the Finale Forums. >> >> Broadway Copyist Handwritten Music Notation Font. Finale 2010 includes the >> new Broadway Copyist music notation font, created by Robert Piechaud, >> designer of the esteemed November and Medieval music fonts. Inspired by the >> golden era of handwritten Broadway scores, the Broadway Copyist font offers >> a lighter appearance. > > Having played quite a few of those "golden age" Broadway books, all I can > say is that this is not necessarily the recommendation that MM marketing > seems to think it is! > > I do find it fascinating that with the almost simultaneous release of > Sibelius 6 and Finale 2010, it seems like the discussions on this list lean > 90% to asking "what's wrong with it," while the discussions on the Sibelius > list lean 90% to "how soon are they shipping?"! Or at most, to whether > it's compatible with such-and-such a hardware setup. 'Nuff said. > > John > > > -- > John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music > Virginia Tech Department of Music > College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences > Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 > Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 > (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) > http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html > > "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition > of jazz musicians. > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
At 12:00 AM -0700 5/30/09, Mike Greensill wrote: I thought it might be interesting to copy and paste a posting from Andrew at MM that was on the Finale Forums. Broadway Copyist Handwritten Music Notation Font. Finale 2010 includes the new Broadway Copyist music notation font, created by Robert Piechaud, designer of the esteemed November and Medieval music fonts. Inspired by the golden era of handwritten Broadway scores, the Broadway Copyist font offers a lighter appearance. Having played quite a few of those "golden age" Broadway books, all I can say is that this is not necessarily the recommendation that MM marketing seems to think it is! I do find it fascinating that with the almost simultaneous release of Sibelius 6 and Finale 2010, it seems like the discussions on this list lean 90% to asking "what's wrong with it," while the discussions on the Sibelius list lean 90% to "how soon are they shipping?"! Or at most, to whether it's compatible with such-and-such a hardware setup. 'Nuff said. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Fin2010 announced
Aaron Sherber wrote: On 5/30/2009 12:22 AM, Ralph Whitfield wrote: I'll spring for it just for the rehearsal marks and percussion updates. This has been my attitude for several years with Finale. Of course, we'd all like to see updates that get us really excited about a host of new features and bugfixes and which we're clearly happy to pay for. But the truth is, if the new features don't seem that exciting or extensive but still save you just a few hours of work over the course of a year, it's worth paying the $99 from a time/money standpoint. Aaron. I agree with you both. The rehearsal letters look to save many hours through the coming year, and the percussion, if it works, would save me much gnashing of teeth. $99 isn't a bad price for my time and my teeth.. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist Composer, Arranger Louisville Orchestra ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Fin2010 announced
On 5/30/2009 12:22 AM, Ralph Whitfield wrote: I'll spring for it just for the rehearsal marks and percussion updates. This has been my attitude for several years with Finale. Of course, we'd all like to see updates that get us really excited about a host of new features and bugfixes and which we're clearly happy to pay for. But the truth is, if the new features don't seem that exciting or extensive but still save you just a few hours of work over the course of a year, it's worth paying the $99 from a time/money standpoint. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: Fin2010 announced
On May 30, 2009, at 12:22 AM, Ralph Whitfield wrote: I'll spring for it just for the rehearsal marks and percussion updates. The site and/or propaganda doesn't say how well it handles the rehearsal marks in linked parts. One of the things I really dislike is having to deal with the rehearsal marks in linked parts...having to have a regular score and a parts score. I would like to know if the rehearsal marks are handled differently in the linked parts...(and I'm still working on 2007...although I have 2009.) There was no mention of it. What is referred to is that they keep their sequence (A,B,C or 1, 2,3) automatically, though you can override that. I don't know if you can specify different font sizes in the score and parts. If you are having trouble with the rehearsal marks being microscopic in the score when they are the right size in the parts, there are a couple of different ways to deal with that. The easiest way is to make them a fixed font size. In the Maestro default they are Times 12, which means after system reduction in the parts they will be around 10. So make them 10 fixed, which makes them the right size in the parts and exactly the same size in the score no matter what the score is reduced to. If you find them too close to the staff in the score, just raise them up while holding down the override key (command on a Mac) and they will only move in the score, not the parts. The other way is to have TWO sets of rehearsal marks and set one of them to be invisible in the score and the other to be invisible in the parts. It's only a little kludgy, and you can avoid the separate parts and score files if this is the only thing causing it. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
At 8:09 PM +0200 5/28/09, Johannes Gebauer wrote: I wonder whether they are aware of it, but this update looks rather, well, pathetic, after the Sibelius announcement. If there isn't some under the hood magic hidden somewhere, I don't think I would buy the upgrade. I am waiting for a Sibelius competitive offer to spend my money on. There's already a competitive cross-grade offer on the Sib website. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
There is a mention of Speedy Entry, so, it seems it has NOT been dropped On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Mike Greensill wrote: > I thought it might be interesting to copy and paste a posting from Andrew at > MM that was on the Finale Forums. > > Mike Greensill ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Fin2010 announced
I thought it might be interesting to copy and paste a posting from Andrew at MM that was on the Finale Forums. Mike Greensill www.mikegreensill.com New Features in Finale 2010 Easier Percussion Entry. Entering percussion has been greatly simplified with on-screen feedback that displays the percussion instrument you are about to enter. New Percussion Layouts. Assigning the staff position and notehead for percussion instrument staves has never been easier with Finale's new percussion layouts. Percussion MIDI Maps. To assign the appropriate MIDI notes to your percussion parts automatically when you change the playback instrument, use the Percussion Map column of the Instrument List. Beat-attached Chord Symbols. Chord symbols are now beat-attached, and no longer require a host note or rest. Notes beneath chords can be edited autonomously. Improved Chord Playback. Chord symbols now play for the duration of the measure, or to the next chord symbol. Simply type "N.C." (for no chord) to interrupt chord playback. Improved Chord Input. Type-in and/or Play-in chords without changing modes. Chord scaling. Chord symbols resize with the page automatically. Chords and fretboards can be scaled for a whole document in Document Options-Chords, or for a region using the Change Chord Assignments dialog box. Automatic Rehearsal Marks. Adding, deleting, and ordering rehearsal marks is now simple and completely automatic. Improved MusicXML. Finale’s updated MusicXML capabilities include enhanced recognition of chord symbols and fretboards. Alternate Notation. Finale now offers more control over what elements are shown or hidden when you apply alternate notation. Music Education Worksheets. Finale now includes hundreds of ready- made, educator-approved, music education worksheets. Improved Graphic Support. Finale now supports more graphic file types for import AND export. New import support includes JPEG, PNG, BMP, and GIF while new export support includes JPEG and PNG. Broadway Copyist Handwritten Music Notation Font. Finale 2010 includes the new Broadway Copyist music notation font, created by Robert Piechaud, designer of the esteemed November and Medieval music fonts. Inspired by the golden era of handwritten Broadway scores, the Broadway Copyist font offers a lighter appearance. Audio and Playback Enhancements (including support of VST/AU Effects Plug-ins). Finale 2010 now supports VST/AU effects plug-ins, includes the Garritan Ambience reverb plug-in, and offers expanded volume control. Export Lyrics. Finale’s Lyrics Tool makes it easy to export all or part of your lyrics to a word-processing document, and offers new controls to edit your lyrics (adding verse/chorus designations not found in your score, for example) before you export to the clipboard. Improved Scanning/SmartScore Lite Enhancements. Finale now includes SmartScore Lite version 5, offering the best music scanning ever. A new interface lets you specify the instrumentation of the scanned staves, ensuring transposing instruments are translated correctly. Improved Help. Not only is Finale easier to use, finding help when you need it is easier too! You will notice a cleaner Help Menu, convenient User Manual welcome screen, and improved topic organization. Powerful filters allow for targeted searches, which allow you to eliminate clutter and quickly identify the content you need. Fixes in Finale 2010 Chords and Fretboards Removing manual adjustments on chord symbols and fretboards no longer deselects their handles. Alignment arrows for positioning fretboards no longer continue to show when switching to a document without fretboards. Position Fretboards no longer becomes checked when no fretboards are showing, then switching from a document where they are. Copying Stack-copying and pasting music with a pickup measure no longer clears the pickup measure setting in the target document. Documentation The correct version of the EntryExercise.mus file is now installed in the Tutorials folder. Document Options The obsolete "Expressions" checkbox in Document Options-Music Spacing has been removed. Exercise Wizard NC and IL exercises are now installed. Expressions Inserting a non-stack selection preceding a measure containing a layer attached expression no longer hangs Finale. Layer Assignments for Expressions are now retained when copied. Adding staves to an extracted part no longer causes Expressions (that were used in the original score) to appear in the newly added staves. Deleting measures no longer causes Expressions assigned to Score Lists to disappear from parts. Keyboard shortcuts The shortcut for Insert from Clip File (Option-Command-I) is no longer conflicted with the shortcut for opening the Audio Unit Instruments dialog box. MIDI files In a MIDI file, notes tied to the last note of a Tuplet n
