Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Actually, what I would like to see is a kind of negative competition. I want to see which deficiencies the programs have. Eg, I would really like to know how Sibelius's beams and slurs (in V6) compare to Finale's. Beams an slurs were the two items which made me stay with Finale. So far nothing offers as much flexibility as Patterson Beams. If I get similar flexibility with Sibelius the next crossgrade offer will get me for sure. The only other thing I will be missing is Speedy, but I think I will get used to Sibelius's input. Just the difference in support attitude is enough to make me switch. I just hate giving money to a company whose philosophy I simply detest. I would like to see a comparison table of what is possible and to which degree of flexibility. Btw, is there any other serious notation software still on the market which can compare to Finale or Sibelius? Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Btw, is there any other serious notation software still on the market which can compare to Finale or Sibelius? score, if the owner ever gives in and lets someone else at the code. the recent lng-awaited windows version was an absolute disaster. noteability, although development is slow (small research team at univ british columbia) it is really solid and the upgrade i saw from the first version was remarkable. lilypond (open source) is still around and improving, it seems, although the documentation is as arrogant as ever and bases its arguments on finale's default files, not what it can actually be made to do. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
At 6/29/2009 09:00 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2009 at 20:53, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 29, 2009, at 8:35 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2009 at 13:33, Christopher Smith wrote: I'm just saying that just because the study may be valid, it doesn't mean it applies to ME. Why would you find it important or necessary to say so? Well, you know, just because! Why are YOU so implicated in the conversation? I'm flabbergasted at the opposition the mere reporting of a fact has generating. Because it isn't a fact. It is a study of a certain select group of people, obviously, those not familar with the program or keyboard usage. You keep saying you don't have a dog in this race. I do; it's my own practice, which I am constantly trying to improve and speed up. I'm not convinced that the study concluding mousing is faster applies to me using Finale, Did anyone say it did? What puzzles me is why others have such a short fuse when it is merely pointed out that studies have shown that most people are faster with the mouse. Because a lot of people are faster with the keyboard. It all depends on who you test. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
On 30 Jun 2009 at 12:15, shirling neueweise wrote: lilypond (open source) Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 30 Jun 2009 at 7:24, Phil Daley wrote: At 6/29/2009 09:00 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2009 at 20:53, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 29, 2009, at 8:35 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2009 at 13:33, Christopher Smith wrote: I'm just saying that just because the study may be valid, it doesn't mean it applies to ME. Why would you find it important or necessary to say so? Well, you know, just because! Why are YOU so implicated in the conversation? I'm flabbergasted at the opposition the mere reporting of a fact has generating. Because it isn't a fact. Yes, it *is* a fact: The studies where, in FACT, done, and did, in FACT, reach the conclusions I reported. This is the only FACT that I reported, but you and others: It is a study of a certain select group of people, obviously, those not familar with the program or keyboard usage. ...respond as though I said the studies were correct. I never said any such thing, nor implied it. You're reacting, irrationally and emotionally, to something that has never been said. You keep saying you don't have a dog in this race. I do; it's my own practice, which I am constantly trying to improve and speed up. I'm not convinced that the study concluding mousing is faster applies to me using Finale, Did anyone say it did? What puzzles me is why others have such a short fuse when it is merely pointed out that studies have shown that most people are faster with the mouse. Because a lot of people are faster with the keyboard. It all depends on who you test. And the FACT of the studies' results does not challenge that one iota. It's that FACT that you seem to be missing. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
i had a quick look through an article on linuxsomethingorother.org and there are a couple of apps that provide a GUI but have no idea how sophisticated they are. Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
What ever happened to Graphire Music Press? On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:52 AM, shirling neueweiseshirl...@newmusicnotation.com wrote: i had a quick look through an article on linuxsomethingorother.org and there are a couple of apps that provide a GUI but have no idea how sophisticated they are. Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. I try and follow these technical discussions but surely it's time to give up a thread when the words contained in the reply might as well be in Swahili for all that I can comprehend them. Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
well, *you* can give up (on) the thread -- i dont see any reason for the thread itself to be given up -- or you can look up the fairly common terms used in this thread, or you can ask the kind people on the list what the terms mean that you don't understand, or you can look up lilypond and see how it differs from programmes you know, or... Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. I try and follow these technical discussions but surely it's time to give up a thread when the words contained in the reply might as well be in Swahili for all that I can comprehend them. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
GUI is graphical user interface, and describes the type of environment where documents are edited pictorially, that is by dragging and positioning things with the mouse and other similar direct interactions, so that what we see on screen is highly indicative of the final result. Finale, Sibelius, Microsoft Word, and most other common programs are like this. By contrast, LilyPond has no GUI. Instead the user writes a computer code (text instructions) in a simple text file, readable with Notepad or any other text editor, and the program will interpret these to produce the printed music. An example might be (in real English words) For this staff, use treble clef, D major key signature, 4/4 time signature, minim D, then crotchets F#, A, then semibreve D. and the program will read these instructions and print a staff, two bars long with music that fits that description. Here, David doesn't comprehend how it could be advantageous to use such a system, when the result is extremely graphical and the desired results must be described using text instructions. Andrew 2009/7/1 Michael Greensill m...@mikegreensill.com Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. I try and follow these technical discussions but surely it's time to give up a thread when the words contained in the reply might as well be in Swahili for all that I can comprehend them. Mike G. www.mikegreensill.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] re: creating PDF’s from Finale 2 k7
Aryeh, Works the same way in Fin(Mac) 2009 and 2010. Cheers! Eric Habsburger Verlag Frankfurt (Dr. Fiedler) www.habsburgerverlag.de eric.f.fied...@t-online.de e.fied...@em.uni-frankfurt.de On 29.06.2009, at 21:35, Aryeh Har-Even wrote: Just to make sure, here’s how I create a PDF in Finale 2007: Open a formatted page in Page View go to File and select Print Under PDF select save as PDF. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
At 8:45 AM +0200 6/30/09, Johannes Gebauer wrote: So far nothing offers as much flexibility as Patterson Beams. Hi, Johannes. Not to belabor the obvious, but isn't Patterson Beams a third-party add-on which is NOT part of Finale and shouldn't be considered in a direct comparison since it makes up for deficiencies in the program itself? What other add-ons are considered indispensable? Bill Duncan's fonts, for some folks?TG tools? It seems that add-ons should not be considered in any fair comparison, but if that isn't a reasonable approach then at least the added cost of them (and their continued availability) should be included as part of the cost for a realistic cost-benefit analysis. All of the Sibelius plug-ins are free, as far as I know, and are available directly from Sibelius for download. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
David W. Fenton wrote: On 30 Jun 2009 at 7:24, Phil Daley wrote: At 6/29/2009 09:00 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2009 at 20:53, Christopher Smith wrote: On Jun 29, 2009, at 8:35 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 29 Jun 2009 at 13:33, Christopher Smith wrote: I'm just saying that just because the study may be valid, it doesn't mean it applies to ME. Why would you find it important or necessary to say so? Well, you know, just because! Why are YOU so implicated in the conversation? I'm flabbergasted at the opposition the mere reporting of a fact has generating. Because it isn't a fact. Yes, it *is* a fact: The studies where, in FACT, done, and did, in FACT, reach the conclusions I reported. This is the only FACT that I reported, but you and others: You've reported hearsay. The factual basis for it remains elusive. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:28 AM, John Howell wrote: At 8:45 AM +0200 6/30/09, Johannes Gebauer wrote: So far nothing offers as much flexibility as Patterson Beams. Hi, Johannes. Not to belabor the obvious, but isn't Patterson Beams a third-party add-on which is NOT part of Finale and shouldn't be considered in a direct comparison since it makes up for deficiencies in the program itself? What other add-ons are considered indispensable? Bill Duncan's fonts, for some folks?TG tools? Even though I don't take full advantage of each of these add-ons, they are each indispensable to my Finale work flow. I am waiting for the TG tools update before fully committing to 2010, which is otherwise functioning well for me. (I need the Transfer Layout function in order to work efficiently with linked parts.) How that affects other people's point of view regarding software comparisons depends on what aspects are most important, and that has not yet become clear in the discussion. Chuck It seems that add-ons should not be considered in any fair comparison, but if that isn't a reasonable approach then at least the added cost of them (and their continued availability) should be included as part of the cost for a realistic cost-benefit analysis. All of the Sibelius plug-ins are free, as far as I know, and are available directly from Sibelius for download. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Ray Horton wrote: John Howell wrote: At 8:45 AM +0200 6/30/09, Johannes Gebauer wrote: So far nothing offers as much flexibility as Patterson Beams. Hi, Johannes. Not to belabor the obvious, but isn't Patterson Beams a third-party add-on which is NOT part of Finale and shouldn't be considered in a direct comparison since it makes up for deficiencies in the program itself? What other add-ons are considered indispensable? Bill Duncan's fonts, for some folks?TG tools? It seems that add-ons should not be considered in any fair comparison, but if that isn't a reasonable approach then at least the added cost of them (and their continued availability) should be included as part of the cost for a realistic cost-benefit analysis. All of the Sibelius plug-ins are free, as far as I know, and are available directly from Sibelius for download. John If Johannes means the Patterson Beams plug-in included with Finale, the net result, for the user, is the same whether third party or not. So, yes, include it. Sibelius has plugins too, so both programs have extra tools. Fine. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
On 30.06.2009 John Howell wrote: Hi, Johannes. Not to belabor the obvious, but isn't Patterson Beams a third-party add-on which is NOT part of Finale and shouldn't be considered in a direct comparison since it makes up for deficiencies in the program itself? What other add-ons are considered indispensable? Bill Duncan's fonts, for some folks?TG tools? If you leave out add-ons like PB the whole comparison seems useless to me. It seems that add-ons should not be considered in any fair comparison, but if that isn't a reasonable approach then at least the added cost of them (and their continued availability) should be included as part of the cost for a realistic cost-benefit analysis. All of the Sibelius plug-ins are free, as far as I know, and are available directly from Sibelius for download. Is there a beaming plugin for Sibelius which does the same as PB? I am only interested in what the program can do, whether with or without plugins. Actually, I believe PB light is part of Finale, or at least was part of the Finale installation a few versions back. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Johannes Gebauerli...@musikmanufaktur.com wrote: Is there a beaming plugin for Sibelius which does the same as PB? I am only interested in what the program can do, whether with or without plugins. Hi Johannes: I asked Daniel Spreadbury your question: Here's his reply-- Sibelius's Optical Beams feature allows you to very simply specify beam angles and positions in a comprehensive manner that allows you to mimic more or less any convention used by any publisher, Henle or otherwise, and presumably any combination of settings in Patterson Beams. And by default Sibelius's beam angles and positions are far more pleasing than Finale's defaults, according to some very experienced and exacting music engravers. I hope this helps ;) Kim ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
On 30 Jun 2009 at 14:52, shirling neueweise wrote: Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. i had a quick look through an article on linuxsomethingorother.org and there are a couple of apps that provide a GUI but have no idea how sophisticated they are. Do you recall if these GUIs run on any actual desktop OS's, er, I mean, on something other than Linux? I can't help but think that slapping a GUI on a command-line app is not exactly going to produce an elegant user interface. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
On 1 Jul 2009 at 2:00, Andrew Moschou wrote: Here, David doesn't comprehend how it could be advantageous to use such a system, when the result is extremely graphical and the desired results must be described using text instructions. I'm not sure you intend that as a criticism or not. Graphical elements should be manipulated graphically (with the option to nudge certain things quantitatively, i.e., GUIs are always helped if you can set certain things using exact measurements and not just by positioning things with the mouse). It is not exactly a radical position on my part. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Does lilypond still have no user interface? Er, I mean, is it still completely command-line based? I just don't see using a non-GUI app for producing notation. I try and follow these technical discussions but surely it's time to give up a thread when the words contained in the reply might as well be in Swahili for all that I can comprehend them. Mike G. I can help with a piece of it since I just heard an interview on NPR that mentioned this fragment. Most Americans assume that the written er is pronounced as, well, er. This displays an ignorance of its origins which are British. The fragment pronounced uh is used by most all English speakers as a pause or interruption but in British English is spelled er consistent with their pronunciation of words like butter as buttuh. No one says er unless they are mistakenly pronouncing the British fragment sounded uh but spelled er. Sorry that I can't help you with the rest of it, Mike. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Do you recall if these GUIs run on any actual desktop OS's, er, I mean, on something other than Linux? don't think so, but have to admit my perusal of this has been rather superficial, no time at the moment http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/music-notation-software-linux-progress-report-part-1 I can't help but think that slapping a GUI on a command-line app is not exactly going to produce an elegant user interface. nope, sure don't look that way in this case. i would imagine that depends on the developer, or at least i would assume so... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
On 30 Jun 2009 at 13:28, John Howell wrote: It seems that add-ons should not be considered in any fair comparison I think it depends on what you're testing. If you're testing the bare application, out of the box, then you test it as installed by default. A version of Patterson Beams ships by default with Finale, so I don't see why it shouldn't be considered part of Finale, even if it *is* ultimately provided by a 3rd-party developer. And even with that, applications don't exist in a vacuum, but within an ecosystem. An app with a plugin platform that has lots of useful plugins that extend the app is more useful than an app with no plugin platform, or no community of plugin developers. Sure, it's theoretically possible for the main developers of the app to include absolutely everything that anyone will ever need within the main application. In a perfect world, it is indeed possible. But it helps to have a bigger ecosystem. Visual Basic was a success in its day because it was a versatile development platform, but also because there was a huge community of developers working with it. That's part of the consideration that needs to go into committing to a platform. Whether or not it should be part of a contest comparing apps depends on the definition of terms of the contest. If the contest is defined to be limited to using the app as shipped without any add- ons, then obviously, additional plugins wouldn't apply. So, it all depends. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
On 30 Jun 2009 at 19:03, Owain Sutton wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: On 30 Jun 2009 at 7:24, Phil Daley wrote: I'm flabbergasted at the opposition the mere reporting of a fact has generating. Because it isn't a fact. Yes, it *is* a fact: The studies where, in FACT, done, and did, in FACT, reach the conclusions I reported. This is the only FACT that I reported, but you and others: You've reported hearsay. The factual basis for it remains elusive. How is it hearsay to report what the studies found? Are you claiming the studies *didn't* find this? If so, isn't it incumbent on *you* to provide the refutation, rather than for me to prove that what you've asserted is wrong? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Hi Johannes, Like I said previously, it is possible to set the Sibelius beaming options to get results similar to Patterson Beams on entry, without having to apply a plugin. Cheers, - Darcy - djar...@earthlink.net Brooklyn, NY On 30 Jun 2009, at 3:38 PM, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 30.06.2009 John Howell wrote: Hi, Johannes. Not to belabor the obvious, but isn't Patterson Beams a third-party add-on which is NOT part of Finale and shouldn't be considered in a direct comparison since it makes up for deficiencies in the program itself? What other add-ons are considered indispensable? Bill Duncan's fonts, for some folks? TG tools? If you leave out add-ons like PB the whole comparison seems useless to me. It seems that add-ons should not be considered in any fair comparison, but if that isn't a reasonable approach then at least the added cost of them (and their continued availability) should be included as part of the cost for a realistic cost-benefit analysis. All of the Sibelius plug-ins are free, as far as I know, and are available directly from Sibelius for download. Is there a beaming plugin for Sibelius which does the same as PB? I am only interested in what the program can do, whether with or without plugins. Actually, I believe PB light is part of Finale, or at least was part of the Finale installation a few versions back. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: WHAT Sibelius can't do
David W. Fenton wrote: On 30 Jun 2009 at 19:03, Owain Sutton wrote: David W. Fenton wrote: On 30 Jun 2009 at 7:24, Phil Daley wrote: I'm flabbergasted at the opposition the mere reporting of a fact has generating. Because it isn't a fact. Yes, it *is* a fact: The studies where, in FACT, done, and did, in FACT, reach the conclusions I reported. This is the only FACT that I reported, but you and others: You've reported hearsay. The factual basis for it remains elusive. How is it hearsay to report what the studies found? Are you claiming the studies *didn't* find this? If so, isn't it incumbent on *you* to provide the refutation, rather than for me to prove that what you've asserted is wrong? I don't have anything TO refute even if I wanted to, and that is my point. Show me the study, and I'll tell you what I think. If you continue to allude to it as fact (no, the capitals are clearly important: FACT) while also acknowledging ignorance of how it was implemented, I don't think I'm the one with anything to prove. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Does anyone have any background on a number of notation programs which are virtually unknown in the U.S. but seem to have dedicated followers elsewhere, sometimes quite nationally based? I generally run across mentions of these on more general music listserves, on which the users are rather surprised that no one else seems to know or use them. And of course on the sites where musical scores may be downloaded in various forms, sometimes including these kinds of files. I think there may be one that takes the name of Mozart in vain, but my memory may be off. And does anyone actually understand why both Finale and Sibelius seem to be rather more expensive outside the U.S., which I understand is the case, but again, that may be old news? Is there an actual reason involving taxes or duties or something, or is it just a matter of marketing and charging what the traffic will bear? John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Does anyone have any background on a number of notation programs which are virtually unknown in the U.S. but seem to have dedicated followers elsewhere, sometimes quite nationally based? berlioz / france. is now free, owner want to make it open source and is looking for develppers ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Comparing notation systems
Wow...thanx for the tip about Berlioz! Just nabbed it! What about Turandot (www.turandot.hu)? There are a couple of german ones that I will list as I am able to recall them. Jim W. From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of shirling neueweise [shirl...@newmusicnotation.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:49 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Comparing notation systems Does anyone have any background on a number of notation programs which are virtually unknown in the U.S. but seem to have dedicated followers elsewhere, sometimes quite nationally based? berlioz / france. is now free, owner want to make it open source and is looking for develppers ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
