[Finale] File will not print
Hi All, Yesterday I worked on a file in Finale WIN09b for several hours. I had printed it several times. Suddenly, for no reason I am aware of, the file no longer prints. I can print other Finale files, but not this one. After I hit OK on the Print dialog box, nothing happens. It does the same no matter what printer I have chosen. It is acting like printing is disabled for this particular file. I am not aware disable printing is possible, or if it is, how to turn it off. I would be very appreciative to anyone who can help solve this mystery. Thanks, Lee Dengler Lee Dengler Minister of Music, College Mennonite Church Composer Engraver, Editor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] File will not print
Lee Dengler wrote: Hi All, Yesterday I worked on a file in Finale WIN09b for several hours. I had printed it several times. Suddenly, for no reason I am aware of, the file no longer prints. I can print other Finale files, but not this one. After I hit OK on the Print dialog box, nothing happens. It does the same no matter what printer I have chosen. It is acting like printing is disabled for this particular file. I am not aware disable printing is possible, or if it is, how to turn it off. I would be very appreciative to anyone who can help solve this mystery. Have you tried quitting the program, restarting it, reloading that file and seeing what happens? When crazy things like that have happened in various applications over the years, I've found that often resolves the issue. Occasionally restarting the computer resolves the issue. Occasionally having to do a select-all, copy, and then paste into a new document is necessary. Sorry I don't have anything more specific to offer as suggestions. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] File will not print
Yes, I tried quitting and restarting Finale and also rebooted my computer. They had no effect. Lee -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 6:49 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] File will not print Lee Dengler wrote: Hi All, Yesterday I worked on a file in Finale WIN09b for several hours. I had printed it several times. Suddenly, for no reason I am aware of, the file no longer prints. I can print other Finale files, but not this one. After I hit OK on the Print dialog box, nothing happens. It does the same no matter what printer I have chosen. It is acting like printing is disabled for this particular file. I am not aware disable printing is possible, or if it is, how to turn it off. I would be very appreciative to anyone who can help solve this mystery. Have you tried quitting the program, restarting it, reloading that file and seeing what happens? When crazy things like that have happened in various applications over the years, I've found that often resolves the issue. Occasionally restarting the computer resolves the issue. Occasionally having to do a select-all, copy, and then paste into a new document is necessary. Sorry I don't have anything more specific to offer as suggestions. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] File will not print
Yes, the score box is checked to print. This is very strange. Lee -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of dc Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 7:33 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] File will not print Lee Dengler écrit: Yesterday I worked on a file in Finale WIN09b for several hours. I had printed it several times. Suddenly, for no reason I am aware of, the file no longer prints. I can print other Finale files, but not this one. After I hit OK on the Print dialog box, nothing happens. It does the same no matter what printer I have chosen. It is acting like printing is disabled for this particular file. I am not aware disable printing is possible, or if it is, how to turn it off. I would be very appreciative to anyone who can help solve this mystery. Have you checked that the boxes Score and/or Parts are ticked in the Print dialog box? If these boxes aren't ticked, nothing will happen. If you want to send the file off-list, I could try and print it. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] File will not print
Lee Dengler wrote: Yes, the score box is checked to print. This is very strange. Try unchecking it and then rechecking it. I've run into situations in other applications where this has resolved similar printing problems. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] File will not print
I solved the problem. Score was checked but copies was set to 0. I am not sure how that was changed - I never change it. O set it to 1 and it now works. Thanks to all who helped! Lee -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:24 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] File will not print Lee Dengler wrote: Yes, the score box is checked to print. This is very strange. Try unchecking it and then rechecking it. I've run into situations in other applications where this has resolved similar printing problems. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: pizz etymology and use
so i know pizz more or less (but not perfectly?) translates to plucked, but if the string is plucked with another object than the finger is is still correct to use pizz.? for example, if the screw of the bow is used to pluck the string (which i have indicated in the score), should pizz. or pluck be indicated over the screw-plucked notes? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] 2 on-paper parts questions
Hi all, I have a large job for a composer whose work is being done by an orchestra in Germany. Normally I set up my parts scaled to 100% for Arch A and let the receiving organization print the PDFs to their taste, which scale well to Letter (8.5x11), Arch A (9x12), Music (10x13), 11R (11x14), or one of the ISO sizes. In this case, the composer tells me the orchestra is expecting actual paper parts, not PDFs. The only time I actual sent paper parts in the past 10 years was in 2004 to a U.S. orchestra that wanted Letter size. I went to the MOLA site to check for international paper size recommendations, but all I get is this account has been suspended. First question: Can anyone offer advice as to what size would a German orchestra typically use for its parts, and any quirks I should watch out for? The composer sent me his pencil score reproduced on thicker-than-normal paper. I've been working on the parts (which are due before the score) and the toner is quite worn and flaking off now. Second question: Can anyone recommend a printer or copy shop in Manhattan that deals in copying at archival temperatures, so it will fix the toner to this thicker paper? Thanks, Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] unsubscribe
Please unsubscribe Thanks vivia...@aol.com Vivian Adelberg Rudow My CD LOVE, LOSS and LAW, is out. Music and words combined for international first place winner WITH LOVE,+ PORTRAIT Of A FRIEND and PORTRAITS OF LAWYERS. Hear sound samples http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzpK98CRAOI and http://www.geareduppublications.com/musichollinspark.html or http://www.gupbooks.com enter music-hollins and park, enter design winner 2009/2010 ASCAPLUS Award www.vivianadelbergrudow.com http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vivian+adelberg+rudow Future Performances : Juan's Garden! in memory of Juan Blanco, director of Cuba’s Electronic Music Studio, week of March 15, 2010 premiere Havana; Joyful Waters of the Chesapeake, April 18, 2010, 4:00 PM. orchestra premiere, St. John’s Orchestra, Ellicott City, Maryland, Ronald Mutchnik, conductor. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] File will not print
I was just going to suggest that. I have had the same thing happen - I know in 2010, can't remember if it happened in 2009 also. Some parts or score will set their copies to zero with no help from me. It's dumbfuddling - clicking print, no response. Raymond Horton Lee Dengler wrote: I solved the problem. Score was checked but copies was set to 0. I am not sure how that was changed - I never change it. O set it to 1 and it now works. Thanks to all who helped! Lee -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of dhbailey Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 8:24 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] File will not print Lee Dengler wrote: Yes, the score box is checked to print. This is very strange. Try unchecking it and then rechecking it. I've run into situations in other applications where this has resolved similar printing problems. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: harp notation
is there a standard way of notating the string buzz caused by holding the pedal between 2 of the 3 positions? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
On Sat Jan 2, at SaturdayJan 2 10:15 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: is there a standard way of notating the string buzz caused by holding the pedal between 2 of the 3 positions? I've done this before. The harpist said no, there isn't a standard way, so upon her suggestion I wrote the lower of the two pitches (which ends up being the one that actually sounds) with the other note head beside it to the right in parentheses in grace note size, like a trill to notehead, then the words 1/2 pedal grind over the passage. So it was a half note Ab, and then to the right a quarter notehead Anat (stemless) at 75% bracketted. Hope you understand it. It was for amplified harp, which makes for a larger effect than acoustic harp. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] File will not print
Lee Dengler wrote: I solved the problem. Score was checked but copies was set to 0. I am not sure how that was changed - I never change it. O set it to 1 and it now works. Thanks to all who helped! Based upon personal experience, I would note that other causes of the same phenomenon you experienced include trying to print only left pages of a one page score, and attempting to print pages 5-6 of a four page score. You'd think by now MM would have figured out how to write the printer interface so it knew what I wanted it to do, even if what I told it was not what I intended to tell it. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Text in only one part of a group (linked parts)
FinMac09 Mac OS 10.5.8 Orchestral score using linked parts. Flutes 1 and 2 form a group. If I add text (e.g., page numbers) to flute 1, it shows up in flute 2 but not the other parts (which are, of course, not part of the flute group). I've read the manual and looked at the Quickstart Videos, but obviously I've missed something basic here. How can I add text to one part of a group without adding it to the other part(s) of the group? My workaround is to add the page number as an expression in the part. Please CC your reply to my address as I'm on the digest and may not receive your reply for another 24 hours. Thanks very much. Paul Hayden (who really can't believe he doesn't know the answer to this basic question...) Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com Voice Pre-arranged fax: 225-769-9604 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
On Sat Jan 2, at SaturdayJan 2 10:15 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote: is there a standard way of notating the string buzz caused by holding the pedal between 2 of the 3 positions? While there is admittedly no standard, in my *Handbook of Instrumentation* (p. 324) I recommend notating the lower pitch and adding a slashed accidental beneath the note--for example, a Gb with a slashed natural beneath it. I think this would be understood w.o explanation. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text in only one part of a group (linked parts)
sounds like you might be addding in page view and you have attach to measures selected. sh-double-click the text handle and set it to show on the page. If I add text (e.g., page numbers) to flute 1, it shows up in flute 2 but not the other parts (which are, of course, not part of the flute group). My workaround is to add the page number as an expression in the part. god no every single change in the layout and beat charts will shift the placement. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
anyone have the sequenza handy and can cross-ref? -- ok, i thought that there was a salzedo-sanctioned notaton for this. the composer has said to block the pedal at natural(^) or natural(v), but if i understood chris right, these would produce two different pitches, either b or nat but never sharp? this means that there is a breaking point in the gliss where it shifts to the upper or lower note, correct? there are two things here, for me. the playing and resulting sound. it might be justified to have a symbol (artic) to indicate that the sound buzzes, e.g. the Z on the stem sometimes used to indicate extremely fast tremolo. a friend mentioned that he thinks the Z is in fact used... i am thinking -- in fact proposing -- that using a 1/4 sharp or 1/4 flat (maybe plus the Z-buzz symbol) would make sense as the standard notation that should be used for this. it would in this particular case. with 1/4-tone notation there is at least a half truth in the notation -- it specifically represent the do, if but not the hear notation, because the actual 1/4-tone pitches do not really sound -- while a slashed accidental has no other standard notational meaning and is therefore entirely ambiguous without further explanation. While there is admittedly no standard, in my *Handbook of Instrumentation* (p. 324) I recommend notating the lower pitch and adding a slashed accidental beneath the note--for example, a Gb with a slashed natural beneath it. I think this would be understood w.o explanation. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text in only one part of a group (linked parts)
On Jan 2, 2010, at 3:05 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: sounds like you might be addding in page view and you have attach to measures selected. sh-double-click the text handle and set it to show on the page. Thanks very much for the suggestion, jef. No, I have the text block set to Attach to Page, not Attach to Measure. I am in Page View, however, when working with the parts. My workaround is to add the page number as an expression in the part. god no every single change in the layout and beat charts will shift the placement. It's not a good solution, I know. But I have been able to kludge it to work. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com Voice Pre-arranged fax: 225-769-9604 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] clef between grace and real notes
ok great, thanks! you do this to control any subsequent spacing issues, i guess? for me, i wonder about the time involved to set the grace notes individually in the dialogue vs using the special tools, taking into consideration the unlikelihood of me having to make any further adjustments to the score once i have finished the project. and in those cases i don't usually redo the spacing anyways except in the case of serious revisions (i never use auto-spacing). but i could see this being useful in a publication context... what else do you / others use the frame dialogue for? the documentation seems almost non-existent on it. or have i just not searched properly in the onilne help? Adjusting the spacing of grace notes. Resolving notehead collisions between different voices in different layers. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: pizz etymology and use
ok thanks. works perfect in straight passages, if there were changes back and forth pizz finger / pizz object i guess i would consider using pluck and pizz. As a (non-italian-speaking) violinist, I would say pizz. would be correct if you just indicate how the pizz should be performed. Parts where the violinist uses a plectrum for example, can be pizz. (w. guitar plectrum) and yet be totally clear for the performer. I've also seen col legno passages where the extra indication was to use other wooden objects than the bow. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text in only one part of a group (linked parts)
Paul, I don't really get what you are trying to do. Why wouldn't you want a page number to show up on all parts? I hope you are using the Text tool (looks like a capital A) in page view, and using the Insert... command from the menu for the page number for this. If you use it in scroll view it attaches to the staff, and if you use the expression tool it attaches to the staff, too. You want to attach to the page. You then set the properties to show from page 2 on (so it doesn't show up on any title page.) If there is some non-standard situation where you don't want this page number to show up on one or more parts, then hide it (right click, select Hide) while you are in the part. Christopher On Sat Jan 2, at SaturdayJan 2 1:12 PM, Paul Hayden wrote: FinMac09 Mac OS 10.5.8 Orchestral score using linked parts. Flutes 1 and 2 form a group. If I add text (e.g., page numbers) to flute 1, it shows up in flute 2 but not the other parts (which are, of course, not part of the flute group). I've read the manual and looked at the Quickstart Videos, but obviously I've missed something basic here. How can I add text to one part of a group without adding it to the other part(s) of the group? My workaround is to add the page number as an expression in the part. Please CC your reply to my address as I'm on the digest and may not receive your reply for another 24 hours. Thanks very much. Paul Hayden (who really can't believe he doesn't know the answer to this basic question...) Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com Voice Pre-arranged fax: 225-769-9604 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
At 10:30 PM +0100 1/2/10, SN jef chippewa wrote: anyone have the sequenza handy and can cross-ref? -- ok, i thought that there was a salzedo-sanctioned notaton for this. the composer has said to block the pedal at natural(^) or natural(v), but if i understood chris right, these would produce two different pitches, either b or nat but never sharp? this means that there is a breaking point in the gliss where it shifts to the upper or lower note, correct? Stop and think for a moment about how a harp operate. The pedals operate 2 sets of fretting stops (and I'm sure there's a technical term for them) that either do or do not fret the strings at the natural and sharp levels. The buzz you're after is the string vibrating against that stop when it isn't firmly in either position. Therefore I see no way that you could have all 3 string pitches at once. You could have Bb/B natural or you could have B natural/B#. But it isn't as simple as producing two different pitches, because neither pitch would be clean and obvious, since they're both produced by the same string. But yes, it would be a combined sound along with the buzz. i am thinking -- in fact proposing -- that using a 1/4 sharp or 1/4 flat (maybe plus the Z-buzz symbol) would make sense as the standard notation that should be used for this. There are no quarter-steps possible on a harp, at least without hand-fretting a single string, and I don't know whether that's even possible. The basic mechanics don't allow it. So harpists are not only not used to seeing such notation, I doubt that they'd know how to interpret it. The question seems to be which effect is more important to you: the buzz of the string against the frets, or sounding 2 pitches at once? For the latter, it would be more normal to use 2 adjacent strings. Are there no harpists on this list? There are at least 2 on the SibeliusList. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: pizz etymology and use
At 2:51 PM +0100 1/2/10, SN jef chippewa wrote: so i know pizz more or less (but not perfectly?) translates to plucked, but if the string is plucked with another object than the finger is is still correct to use pizz.? for example, if the screw of the bow is used to pluck the string (which i have indicated in the score), should pizz. or pluck be indicated over the screw-plucked notes? I think you're correct, although the question would never have occurred to me. String players will automatically interpret pizz. as plucking with the fingers. Although there are a variety of ways to do so. I'd say that for clarity, any non-standard request will need to be carefully spelled out in words IN THE PARTS. (The players will think you're nuts, of course, but what do THEY know?!! But do you really think there'll be an audible difference in sound that's worth the trouble?) Be sure to leave them enough time to reset the bows, because it can't be done with a normal bow position, or at least I don't think so. But depending on how demanding the part is, it might be do-able with a simple turn of the wrist. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html We never play anything the same way once. Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
On Sat Jan 2, at SaturdayJan 2 4:30 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote: anyone have the sequenza handy and can cross-ref? -- ok, i thought that there was a salzedo-sanctioned notaton for this. the composer has said to block the pedal at natural(^) or natural (v), but if i understood chris right, these would produce two different pitches, either b or nat but never sharp? this means that there is a breaking point in the gliss where it shifts to the upper or lower note, correct? there are two things here, for me. the playing and resulting sound. it might be justified to have a symbol (artic) to indicate that the sound buzzes, e.g. the Z on the stem sometimes used to indicate extremely fast tremolo. a friend mentioned that he thinks the Z is in fact used... i am thinking -- in fact proposing -- that using a 1/4 sharp or 1/4 flat (maybe plus the Z-buzz symbol) would make sense as the standard notation that should be used for this. it would in this particular case. with 1/4-tone notation there is at least a half truth in the notation -- it specifically represent the do, if but not the hear notation, because the actual 1/4-tone pitches do not really sound -- while a slashed accidental has no other standard notational meaning and is therefore entirely ambiguous without further explanation. You have to look at a harp. The open string is a flat; to change it to a natural there is a disc with two little posts sticking out of it, like a two-tined fork, that twists when you put the pedal down and effectively makes the string a semitone shorter. The first half- pedal just gives you the open string with a buzz, not a quarter tone, unless the posts are out of adjustment and the back one touches before the front one, which would not really be very effective in sound anyway, and nowhere close to a 1/4 tone. The second half-pedal buzzes the natural note, by 1/2 pedalling between the natural and sharp to engage the 2nd disc with two tines. This will give you the natural pitch. If you want, say, a G# pitch to buzz, you won't get it on the G string. Write it as an Ab and 1/2 pedal it to Anat. In all cases, the pitch is not really altered, just a buzz is added. There is little, if any, actual gliss effect if you change slowly between semitones. BTW, there's a great example of this in one of the James Bond films, I think it is the first one, Goldfinger. Bond is sneaking around and there is this close-miked harp playing the characteristic theme (B, D, A, Ab, B, F, F#), very slowly in the med-low register, grinding every semitone until you think your teeth are coming loose. I was so impressed by this cue that I asked a harpist how it was done, and got the demonstration. I think they must have practically put the mic right on the harp. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
Yup, John - I'm a harpist but in a bit of a time crunch at the moment. The described effect certainly IS possible and quite easy to accomplish; when the pedals sit in their neutral (fully up, or technically: fully flattened) position, there is no contact between the strings and the two sets of tuning discs, each of which have (in turn) TWO pins, one on either side of the string. When the pedal is depressed into the 'natural' or middle position, carefully: the first set of discs rotates, engaging the pins on either side of the string; depress the pedal again into its lowest or sharped position and the second set of discs and ITS sets of pins engage the string. Stopping once, stopping twice. So much for the mechanics; the string is - as with any chordophone: shortened and the pitch raised. Now - in practice: of course it's possible to micro-tone any pitch between a string's flat and sharp positions: done carefully (and if the harp is well-regulated) there's no buzz - but the harpist CAN deliberately create a buzz EVEN while slowly altering the pitch from (say) fully flatted to natural. Microtones, you name it: you can do it. With or without buzz; it's all in the foot. Because: there is a graduated alteration of the string's length produced by the TURNING of the discs, not an abrupt pitch change; it's how the instrument works. A good harpist slips pedals quickly so as to lessen the potential portamento - and does so (usually) while the string is NOT ringing - or the harpist will deliberately do just the opposite, so as to produce a portamento effect, if called for. Matter of fact, Harpo Marx (with whose technique I have more than a little familiarity!) actually created a pedal 'trill' effect that was unique to the instrument but has since become fairly standard. The effect was rendered simply by rapid half-step pedal alteration; it's kinda funny, too because it's a hands-free effectyou're looking at the harpist, the string is sounded, and then the foot takes over and the trill is committed without fingers on strings. Done slowly, ya hear the interceding tones; done quickly and the persistence of hearing (my term) makes you think you're hearing a clean 1/2-step trill. Done badly: buzz buzz buz. Les Marsden (209) 966-6988 Cell: (559) 708-6027 (Emergency only) 7145 Snyder Creek Road Mariposa, CA 95338-9641 Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! Mariposa County Planning Commissioner, District 5 Past President, The Economic Development Corporation of Mariposa County http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html Marsden Marx Pages: http://tinyurl.com/ygpj7og - Original Message - From: John Howell To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation At 10:30 PM +0100 1/2/10, SN jef chippewa wrote: anyone have the sequenza handy and can cross-ref? -- ok, i thought that there was a salzedo-sanctioned notaton for this. the composer has said to block the pedal at natural(^) or natural(v), but if i understood chris right, these would produce two different pitches, either b or nat but never sharp? this means that there is a breaking point in the gliss where it shifts to the upper or lower note, correct? Stop and think for a moment about how a harp operate. The pedals operate 2 sets of fretting stops (and I'm sure there's a technical term for them) that either do or do not fret the strings at the natural and sharp levels. The buzz you're after is the string vibrating against that stop when it isn't firmly in either position. Therefore I see no way that you could have all 3 string pitches at once. You could have Bb/B natural or you could have B natural/B#. But it isn't as simple as producing two different pitches, because neither pitch would be clean and obvious, since they're both produced by the same string. But yes, it would be a combined sound along with the buzz. i am thinking -- in fact proposing -- that using a 1/4 sharp or 1/4 flat (maybe plus the Z-buzz symbol) would make sense as the standard notation that should be used for this. There are no quarter-steps possible on a harp, at least without hand-fretting a single string, and I don't know whether that's even possible. The basic mechanics don't allow it. So harpists are not only not used to seeing such notation, I doubt that they'd know how to interpret it. The question seems to be which effect is more important to you: the buzz of the string against the frets, or sounding 2 pitches at once? For the latter, it would be more normal to use 2 adjacent strings. Are there no harpists on this list? There are at least 2 on the SibeliusList. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal
[Finale] More drum grooves?
The drum groove plug-in is useful. However, the system comes with a rather limited set of grooves/ The documentation says we can add grooves simply by dropping additional MIDI files into the folder. Has anybody complied some additional drum grooves? For example, I could see additional bossa variations, a meringue, and tango, for example. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
Therefore I see no way that you could have all 3 string pitches at once. whoa there cowboy, that was never the intention! You could have Bb/B natural or you could have B natural/B#. But it isn't as simple as producing two different pitches, because neither pitch would be clean and obvious, since they're both produced by the same string. But yes, it would be a combined sound along with the buzz. this is not eggzackly what i was getting on about, i was talking about one pitch with buzz; the question had to do with how much control was possible on that one pitch. i am thinking -- in fact proposing -- that using a 1/4 sharp or 1/4 flat (maybe plus the Z-buzz symbol) would make sense as the standard notation that should be used for this. There are no quarter-steps possible on a harp, at least without hand-fretting a single string, and I don't know whether that's even possible. my point was that 1/4 tone accis could possibly be understood as a half position between the standard half tone positions. 1/4 tones can in fact be played on the harp by stopping any string with the tuning key (plus timbral alteration), but we're talking pedals here... The basic mechanics don't allow it. not as a sounding pitch (as i stated), but perhaps as the actual mechanical gesture needed to produce the effect. and les seems to have suggested it is in fact possible. So harpists are not only not used to seeing such notation, I doubt that they'd know how to interpret it. this is not an issue for me if no standard notation exists anyways; harpist/composers/copyists will simply need to agree to and get used to a standardized notation for the effect (as i said, if one does not already exist). but before we conclude that discussion we'll speak to some harpists! The question seems to be which effect is more important to you: the buzz of the string against the frets, or sounding 2 pitches at once? For the latter, it would be more normal to use 2 adjacent strings. what is important may vary according to composer but it would seem to me that the buzz would be the important thing, as the actual pitch between the tempered stops cannot be controlled as well on this instrument as on others (?). ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] More drum grooves?
On Sat Jan 2, at SaturdayJan 2 9:58 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: The drum groove plug-in is useful. However, the system comes with a rather limited set of grooves/ The documentation says we can add grooves simply by dropping additional MIDI files into the folder. Has anybody complied some additional drum grooves? For example, I could see additional bossa variations, a meringue, and tango, for example. I haven't bothered (speaking for myself) but I made excellent use of the MIBAC rhythm section generator before it was dumped a few versions ago. The advantages of the late lamented MIBAC plugin were that it would put in stylistic variations and fill and breaks, reading the punches that you had included in your rhythm parts. The drum groove plugin makes feeble guesses and gets it wrong most of the time, so I haven't used it much at all. Anyone else? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: harp notation
les, thanks for the details, very much appreciated!!! i am in fact aware of the mechanical aspects of the instrument but am trying to better understand the actual results and what can actually be controlled and to what degree. Now - in practice: of course it's possible to micro-tone any pitch between a string's flat and sharp positions: done carefully (and if the harp is well-regulated) there's no buzz - but the harpist CAN deliberately create a buzz EVEN while slowly altering the pitch from (say) fully flatted to natural. Microtones, you name it: you can do it. are you saying that (assuming proper prep time) i could ask for any 1/4-tone, 1/6-tone, 1/8-tone? or are the smaller *raised* inflections easier to perform and control than tempered 1/4-tones? since the pedal is mechanical, in the case of a well-regulated harp, how could the performer intentionally create the buzz? it would seem to me that there HAS to be a point at which (for mechanical reasons) the pins come into contact with the strings as the pedal is pressed and that beyond this point (raising the pitch) the performer can no longer prevent the buzz. i.e. after a certain pitch increase, the control of the buzz is directly related to the pitch alterations to the string. this makes me think: - slight pitch inflections upwards can easily be done without noise, up to perhaps a 1/4-tone and beyond, according to the make of the instrument, regulation of the haro and control of the performer - above a certain point (varies according to same reasons in previous point) -- once the buzz starts - the pitch variation will always be accompanied by noise, and this noise can to a certain extent be controled in tendem with pitch fluctuations effected by the pedal except you say that a clean gliss is possible wth no noise! sorry to sound dense, but can you explain the separate conditions for a gliss with and without noise? Matter of fact, Harpo Marx (with whose technique I have more than a little familiarity!) ah! his rachmaninov technique? Done slowly, ya hear the interceding tones; done quickly and the persistence of hearing (my term) makes you think you're hearing a clean 1/2-step trill. can you give us a tempo for this? Done badly: buzz buzz buz. and this? thanks, this is very helpful! ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] More drum grooves?
ScoreGroove has some nice stuff. It's a plugin for Finale. I think MakeMusic sells it. Other than that, if you want to clean up the Notation, Band in a Box drum tracks work ok. On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: On Sat Jan 2, at SaturdayJan 2 9:58 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: The drum groove plug-in is useful. However, the system comes with a rather limited set of grooves/ The documentation says we can add grooves simply by dropping additional MIDI files into the folder. Has anybody complied some additional drum grooves? For example, I could see additional bossa variations, a meringue, and tango, for example. I haven't bothered (speaking for myself) but I made excellent use of the MIBAC rhythm section generator before it was dumped a few versions ago. The advantages of the late lamented MIBAC plugin were that it would put in stylistic variations and fill and breaks, reading the punches that you had included in your rhythm parts. The drum groove plugin makes feeble guesses and gets it wrong most of the time, so I haven't used it much at all. Anyone else? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
