Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
On Jan 12, 2010, at 6:52 PM, John Howell wrote: You can ask the publisher, but you KNOW what they'll say!!! The publisher is Kalmus with no copyright notice, so you know what THAT means! No date either, but based on the vendor name stamped inside I know I bought it no later than 1984. Probably late 1970s. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
At 6:02 PM -0800 1/12/10, Mark D Lew wrote: What's the story on Russian copyrights? I remember that a lot of 20th century Russian works were in the public domain long before they otherwise would have been, on account of the fact that the United States did not recognize Soviet copyrights. I believe it was the Soviet Union that did not recognize copyrights--ANY copyrights. Everything in theory belonged to "The People." I also remember that some time in the mid-1990s, after the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, the United States began to recognize Russian copyrights again, as a result of some trade agreement, and a whole lot of Russian works that had been available were pulled from the shelves and went out of print. They just went back into copyright, as I recall. But that affected the price, which affected the availability. I remember at the time that it was made clear that any copies that had been sold while they were public domain remained legal, but that any newly-sold copies (or rentals, I assume) were now protected by copyright as of when they COULD have been copyrighted. It wasn't that they went out of print, the prices just went up. But I also remember that the re-copyrighting was NOT automatic, and it had to be specifically requested for each work involved. So what does that mean for something like Peter and the Wolf? Is it truly in the public domain? Or is it just easily available but technically under protection now? I would assume that it is now under copyright protection under U.S. law, based on the dates you gave. Nothing technical about it. I note that "Peter" is not listed in either the Luck's or Kalmus catalogs, which suggests that it may now be available only from the publisher. The previous poster--I've lost track of who it was--assumed that it was PD, but that's not necessarily true. We performed it last November and I know we didn't rent it, but our conductor may have had it in his library from when it was PD. As an American, I'm mostly interested in U.S. law but presumably the same questions apply to Europe and elsewhere. Yes, but under the applicable copyright law of each country. A 1936 copyright would still be under copyright in the U.S. under the 1909 law, a 1953 death would affect European and other copyright laws that at the time were based on death plus 50 years or death plus 70 years, depending on what the current laws read. Peter and the Wolf was published in 1936 and Prokofiev died in 1953, so it seems to me that the work ought to be protected under either the American or European rules. Depends on how the EU rules now read. 1953 plus 50 years would be a 2003 expiration. But if it's figured as plus 70 years it would be 2023. What I don't know is whether any of those works got "credit" added for the years in which they were public domain. (But I hope I'm wrong, because there's a certain Shostakovich prelude I'd love to arrange) You can ask the publisher, but you KNOW what they'll say!!! John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] minimum font size for lyrics in score?
Let me expand upon that. Choir octavos are printed so the lyrics can (barely) be read by singers, holding the music a few inches below their face, but the conductor, who has his or her music much father from the eyes, is not included in the equation. Other than xerox-enlarging every single piece that I conduct, which is impractical, mostly I just squint, guess, and smile. Ray Horton wrote: I agree with you 100%, Mark. Raymond Horton Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC On the larger question, I am generally of the opinion that lyrics are always printed too small. Obviously that rule can't be taken to the extreme, but I almost never see lyrics that are bigger than they need to be, while I often see lyrics that are smaller than they need to be. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
As far as I know, Peter and the Wolf is back under protection. Evidence of that is that Dover made some of their Prokofiev orchestral scores unavailable (glad I already had a copy). You can check the ASCAP website for a list of restored works. It's up to you to figure out whether the work has lived out its "natural" life. I hear pdinfo.com or .org is a good resource, but I haven't checked it out myself, though I've heard that ASCAP and BMI both consult it. On Jan 12, 2010, at 6:02 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: On Jan 11, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I'm not sure there is "standard practice". The two std. rep. pieces for orchestra with narration that come to mind are Peter and the Wolf and Mendelssohn's MIdsummer Night's Dream. The Prokofiev includes the entire narration in the score, as I believe also does the Mendelssohn. (The parts for both only have excerpts of the narration as needed.) If it were me, I would include the entire narration in the score in the pauses where they are to be delivered. At the very least I would look at both those scores before making a final decision. Fortunately, both are available from Dover and hence in the public domain. What's the story on Russian copyrights? I remember that a lot of 20th century Russian works were in the public domain long before they otherwise would have been, on account of the fact that the United States did not recognize Soviet copyrights. I also remember that some time in the mid-1990s, after the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, the United States began to recognize Russian copyrights again, as a result of some trade agreement, and a whole lot of Russian works that had been available were pulled from the shelves and went out of print. So what does that mean for something like Peter and the Wolf? Is it truly in the public domain? Or is it just easily available but technically under protection now? As an American, I'm mostly interested in U.S. law but presumably the same questions apply to Europe and elsewhere. Peter and the Wolf was published in 1936 and Prokofiev died in 1953, so it seems to me that the work ought to be protected under either the American or European rules. (But I hope I'm wrong, because there's a certain Shostakovich prelude I'd love to arrange) mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] minimum font size for lyrics in score?
I agree with you 100%, Mark. Raymond Horton Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC On the larger question, I am generally of the opinion that lyrics are always printed too small. Obviously that rule can't be taken to the extreme, but I almost never see lyrics that are bigger than they need to be, while I often see lyrics that are smaller than they need to be. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] minimum font size for lyrics in score?
On Jan 9, 2010, at 9:17 PM, Noel Stoutenburg wrote: I will also, on occasion, use a condensed, or narrow version of a typeface, when the readability of the lyrics is not the prime consideration. Using a condensed typeface will often result in readability being better, not worse. Typically, the limiting factor for how large you can afford to make the lyrics is the horizontal spacing, not the vertical. By using a condensed typeface, you potentially make it possible to use a larger size type with no adverse effect on the music spacing. True, 9-point condensed is less readable than 9-point regular, but if the choice is between 9-point condensed and 7-point regular, the condensed is an improvement. ... On the larger question, I am generally of the opinion that lyrics are always printed too small. Obviously that rule can't be taken to the extreme, but I almost never see lyrics that are bigger than they need to be, while I often see lyrics that are smaller than they need to be. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Russian copyrights (was Narrations in score)
On Jan 11, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Robert Patterson wrote: I'm not sure there is "standard practice". The two std. rep. pieces for orchestra with narration that come to mind are Peter and the Wolf and Mendelssohn's MIdsummer Night's Dream. The Prokofiev includes the entire narration in the score, as I believe also does the Mendelssohn. (The parts for both only have excerpts of the narration as needed.) If it were me, I would include the entire narration in the score in the pauses where they are to be delivered. At the very least I would look at both those scores before making a final decision. Fortunately, both are available from Dover and hence in the public domain. What's the story on Russian copyrights? I remember that a lot of 20th century Russian works were in the public domain long before they otherwise would have been, on account of the fact that the United States did not recognize Soviet copyrights. I also remember that some time in the mid-1990s, after the Soviet Union had ceased to exist, the United States began to recognize Russian copyrights again, as a result of some trade agreement, and a whole lot of Russian works that had been available were pulled from the shelves and went out of print. So what does that mean for something like Peter and the Wolf? Is it truly in the public domain? Or is it just easily available but technically under protection now? As an American, I'm mostly interested in U.S. law but presumably the same questions apply to Europe and elsewhere. Peter and the Wolf was published in 1936 and Prokofiev died in 1953, so it seems to me that the work ought to be protected under either the American or European rules. (But I hope I'm wrong, because there's a certain Shostakovich prelude I'd love to arrange) mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Narrations in score
At 8:26 AM +0100 1/12/10, Jari Williamsson wrote: In addition to the works already listed by others, Benjamin Britten's "The Young Person's Guide to the Orchestra" has the full cues listed. The cues are with music, sometimes the cue is at one single fermata, sometimes the cue spans over multiple fermatas. Thanks, Jari. I've always found that using multiple fermatas creates more confusion than it saves. There's one place in "The King & I" where the Kind's statement: "Is a puzzlement!" is spread over 2 measures for no good reason, and it threw our orchestra every time. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Narrations in score
And a great gift for a conductor! Thanks, Ryan; good to know. I was thinking rental only since it isn't in the Luck's Catalog. John At 10:14 PM -0800 1/11/10, Ryan Beard wrote: The score to Lincoln portrait is readily available from Boosey & Hawkes in their affordable "masterworks" study scores series. It's in an anthology with a few other tunes. Makes a great tax deduction! On Jan 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, John Howell wrote: At 8:39 PM -0600 1/11/10, Robert Patterson wrote: I'm not sure there is "standard practice". The two std. rep. pieces for orchestra with narration that come to mind are Peter and the Wolf and Mendelssohn's MIdsummer Night's Dream. The Prokofiev includes the entire narration in the score, as I believe also does the Mendelssohn. (The parts for both only have excerpts of the narration as needed.) If it were me, I would include the entire narration in the score in the pauses where they are to be delivered. At the very least I would look at both those scores before making a final decision. Fortunately, both are available from Dover and hence in the public domain. Copland's "Lincoln Portrait" is another to look at, although getting ahold of it might be more difficult. There is a concert band version that might be easier to track down. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Narrations in score
Stephen Lamb wrote: I'm currently working on editing a piece for orchestra and narrator, and a question came up about standard practice. Often, when the narrator is delivering his line, there are rests in the orchestra with fermatas over them. I've inserted cues, the last line the narrator reads, in all the parts. Currently the score is set up the same way, with the conductor seeing the last line, like the orchestra, with plans to include the full narration on a separate page at the beginning of the score. How is it usually done? Is it better for the full narration to be in the score, even at a small print size, or would that just clutter up the score? Speaking with my conductor's hat on now, I will side with all those who have expressed an opinion that the score should contain the full narration. It is so important to know just how long any section of the narration is, rather than simply waiting for the last couple of lines. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
