Re: [Finale] iPad as electronic music stand
I am housebound at the moment with severe Sciatica and my iPad has been a life saver. I can only either stand up or lie flat on my back so every afternoon I have loaded up my iPad with scores (PDFs from http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page ) and lay down to listen to the afternoon concert on BBC radio 3. The PDFs mostly work really well with iBooks. I've found that with the really large files you have to give it a few minutes to load up and the page turns are sometimes a bit slow, but on the whole it's been great for me. Gary Griffiths York UK Sent from my iPad (of course) On 9 Dec 2010, at 21:49, Blake Richardson wrote: > On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:51 AM, wrote: > >> From: Eric Dannewitz >> Date: December 8, 2010 6:13:11 PM EST >> To: >> Subject: Re: [Finale] iPad as electronic music stand >> Reply-To: finale@shsu.edu >> >> >> You know there is a clip thing for a microphone stand that you should look >> into >> >> http://www.ikmultimedia.com/iklip/features/ > > Looks pretty cool. I'd probably go with that if I didn't already have a music > stand that works fine.___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
At 8:19 AM +0100 12/10/10, Jonathan Smith wrote: All the problems involved in altering parts over the stand could be accomplished quickly and efficiently by one person. Music theatre show productions requiring cuts to numbers, alternate versions etc. could be set up in advance of rehearsals. Even transpositions to suit vocal ranges could be made fairly quickly in comparison with re-copying parts. Forget all those pencilled marks, alterations could be implemented for real. Even cross cues added to parts, missing instrument cues added, simplification, re-voicing, this could all be carried out from by any finale competent MD or Librarian (or copyist if budgets stretch). I love your dream, Jonathan! Just a couple of small flaws that come to mind immediately. 1. Using proprietary file formats rather than a universal one would be, I suspect, a huge non-starter. Strange to say, not everyone uses Finale, and not everyone who does is fully conversant with it. I believe that's why the Portable Document Format was developed in the first place. 2. "Cuts to numbers, alternate versions etc." are almost NEVER made in advance of rehearsals, at least in community theater. They more often come up in the middle of rehearsals and require scrambling to make them work. Been there, done that--a LOT!!! And of course the biggest problem of all: the rental agencies guard their copyrights like vicious attack dogs, and will NOT allow anything that will either lower their income or defeat their absolute control over their Grand Rights. And digital files of their orchestrations could be copied and shared indiscriminately. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
Sent from my iSomething On Dec 10, 2010, at 10:22 AM, John Howell wrote: > I love your dream, Jonathan! Just a couple of small flaws that come to mind > immediately. > > 1. Using proprietary file formats rather than a universal one would be, I > suspect, a huge non-starter. Strange to say, not everyone uses Finale, and > not everyone who does is fully conversant with it. I believe that's why the > Portable Document Format was developed in the first place. Gosh, you don't really check anything do you? Like the whole people over 40 not being good with computers thing... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format > > 2. "Cuts to numbers, alternate versions etc." are almost NEVER made in > advance of rehearsals, at least in community theater. They more often come > up in the middle of rehearsals and require scrambling to make them work. > Been there, done that--a LOT!!! I think the only to really accomplish a digital orchestra would be to have some sort of program where you could delete measures, it would reformat pages, then push the updates to authorized devices keeping any annotations players have made on their parts. The annotations would probably be stored in some online cloud thing where the player would have to login to get their marks if they changed iPads. But then again, there have been a lot of shows i have done were we end up changing keys from the original.so whatever "conductor" version would probably need to be able to do that as well. So it would really be some sort of Finale/Sibelius lite iPad version that can do these things > And of course the biggest problem of all: the rental agencies guard their > copyrights like vicious attack dogs, and will NOT allow anything that will > either lower their income or defeat their absolute control over their Grand > Rights. And digital files of their orchestrations could be copied and shared > indiscriminately. Which is why they'd have to have some sort of copy protection on them, though in reality it doesn't stop people from copying stuff if they are motivated to do so. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
On 10 Dec 2010 at 13:19, John Howell wrote: > 1. Using proprietary file formats rather than a universal one would > be, I suspect, a huge non-starter. Strange to say, not everyone uses > Finale, and not everyone who does is fully conversant with it. I > believe that's why the Portable Document Format was developed in the > first place. Actually, no, that's not why PDF was developed. It was created entirely so that print documents could be displayed reliably on any computer and it would always look the same. That purpose has been somewhat superseded by all-electronic transmission of information (i.e., it's no longer driven by design for print), but the goal of precisely exact display on all devices is still in place. Your comment seems to me to confuse the question of what is used to create the content and what is used to present the content. Finale might very well still be what is used to edit the music, while PDF output would be used to display on the music stand devices. That would be more complicated than an integrated system where everything was handled from one program (e.g., Finale or Sibelius), and the portability might not be worth the effort, since for any particular organization, it would be a closed system. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
Which makes me kind of think if something for Orchestras/Musical Pits was developed, it would have to have to be really like a light weight version of Sibelius/Finale which could do SIMPLE editing of a pre-existing score (say for like Fiddler on the Roof), and when the conductor marks up the score with all the cuts, it would send out the changes to Reader applications where the musicians could then use it for display, mark it up, etc. But again, there would have to be some sort of copy-protection or something. I don't see MTI Shows giving out free copies of their works. But then again, I've come across scans of full scores and parts of Musicals out there on the net so.I guess the illusion of security is what matters. On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:31 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: > > Your comment seems to me to confuse the question of what is used to > create the content and what is used to present the content. Finale > might very well still be what is used to edit the music, while PDF > output would be used to display on the music stand devices. That > would be more complicated than an integrated system where everything > was handled from one program (e.g., Finale or Sibelius), and the > portability might not be worth the effort, since for any particular > organization, it would be a closed system. NOT Sent from my iSomething ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
At 1:39 PM -0800 12/10/10, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Which makes me kind of think if something for Orchestras/Musical Pits was developed, it would have to have to be really like a light weight version of Sibelius/Finale which could do SIMPLE editing of a pre-existing score (say for like Fiddler on the Roof), and when the conductor marks up the score with all the cuts, it would send out the changes to Reader applications where the musicians could then use it for display, mark it up, etc. Yes, but that concatenates two separate items (as David pointed out correctly that I had done): The first is the need for a universal format, not individual, proprietary formats that are incompatible. And with all respect to Recordare's good work, the NEED for Music XML to translate from one proprietary format to another (and the expense of buying still another program to do so) simply underscores the problem. The second is the need for networking rather than for individual, standalone units, with which I completely agree since the concept won't really work to its potential without it, but which inevitably will present the problems of compatibility, setup, and operation that you do not feel are worth worrying about. . But again, there would have to be some sort of copy-protection or something. I don't see MTI Shows giving out free copies of their works. But then again, I've come across scans of full scores and parts of Musicals out there on the net so.I guess the illusion of security is what matters. All THAT takes is a copy machine, of course. And I'm not sure what kind of detective work the three major rental agencies actually do to track down non-paying performances, but our own community organization simply will NOT try to dodge the legal requirements to save a few bucks on rentals and royalties. On Dec 10, 2010, at 1:31 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Your comment seems to me to confuse the question of what is used to create the content and what is used to present the content. Finale might very well still be what is used to edit the music, while PDF > output would be used to display on the music stand devices. Perhaps, but I read Eric's notes as advocating a notation program as the primary program for feeding files to the iPads. As an example, I've been using a proprietary program called ExamView this semester to built the exams for a couple of my courses, and it works pretty well, but saves its files in its own format which Word cannot read. (Or if it can, I don't know how, and would require TECHNICAL SUPPORT to figure it out!) Today a student asked whether I could send him a previous exam for review, and because of that proprietary limitation I could not. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
On Dec 10, 2010, at 4:57 PM, John Howell wrote: > > Yes, but that concatenates two separate items (as David pointed out correctly > that I had done): > > The first is the need for a universal format, not individual, proprietary > formats that are incompatible. And with all respect to Recordare's good > work, the NEED for Music XML to translate from one proprietary format to > another (and the expense of buying still another program to do so) simply > underscores the problem. Not necessarily, If we are talking about just theater shows. Lets take that. Ok, so, you want to do say Aladdin. Ok. And you have some sort of device that all the orchestra members are going to use. Ok. Simply download their Application. Log > > The second is the need for networking rather than for individual, standalone > units, with which I completely agree since the concept won't really work to > its potential without it, but which inevitably will present the problems of > compatibility, setup, and operation that you do not feel are worth worrying > about. . Hence which is why you get all the same units, sayoh I dunno, iPads, and they all work fine together. I just don't see why there is this fear of networking.like you need to be some sort of Voodoo priest to get everything to work. And I focus in on Apple because they have a history of having its software work across all its devices. Like Applications made for the iPod from 2 years ago work on the iPod from today. There are no radical hardware differences in the devices that run the software..everything just works. > All THAT takes is a copy machine, of course. And I'm not sure what kind of > detective work the three major rental agencies actually do to track down > non-paying performances, but our own community organization simply will NOT > try to dodge the legal requirements to save a few bucks on rentals and > royalties. Well, you also aren't supposed to make videos or record audio of performances but YouTube is littered with them... > Perhaps, but I read Eric's notes as advocating a notation program as the > primary program for feeding files to the iPads. As an example, I've been > using a proprietary program called ExamView this semester to built the exams > for a couple of my courses, and it works pretty well, but saves its files in > its own format which Word cannot read. (Or if it can, I don't know how, and > would require TECHNICAL SUPPORT to figure it out!) Today a student asked > whether I could send him a previous exam for review, and because of that > proprietary limitation I could not. Is that really a technical support issue or just that the program doesn't allow it? I mean, before you start using something should you know what it can and can not do? I mean, if I go out and get ProTools say..and then I come to find out that it won't use this really cool Audio Units plugin that I have. Is that something I should have been aware of from the start or is it something I should have known about before getting the program I dunno, I think a lot of this discussion is focusing on assuming there will be networking problems or some other technical barrier that is insurmountable. I just don't see that barrier at all. Only time I have seen network problems is when the IT staff had something jacked up because they had no clue how to run anything..of course this was a State College socould explain something.. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] MusicPad Pro vs. iPad
I have owned a MusicPad Pro for a couple years now and it is a true lifesaver. Being a pianist and a pit musical director, it makes page turning a breeze. If you use .tiff files, it takes up less memory and the resolution of the image is a lot clearer than a PDF. I have used it for instrumental (non-piano) performances and again, with the foot pedal, it is fantastic. I am STILL in the process of scanning all of my music on paper and then pitching it or giving it away, because I am so attached to the MusicPad. I've seen iPads, of course, and think they are fantastic, but the screen size would definitely get in the way. I do think they should come down in price though, for the orchestra-networking reasons and "affordabilities". I'm sure violinists would appreciate it also. Patrick J. M. Sheehan Music Director, Instructor: Woodlawn Arts Academy P. S. Music Host: "The Saturday Blues" on 89.5 WNIJ-FM, 1 pm - 4 pm (CST) & WNIJ.org 1-815-973-2317 (m) patricksheehanmu...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of finale-requ...@shsu.edu Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:00 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Finale Digest, Vol 89, Issue 12 Send Finale mailing list submissions to finale@shsu.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to finale-requ...@shsu.edu You can reach the person managing the list at finale-ow...@shsu.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Finale digest..." ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
At 5:34 PM -0800 12/10/10, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Not necessarily, If we are talking about just theater shows. Lets take that. Ok, so, you want to do say Aladdin. Ok. And you have some sort of device that all the orchestra members are going to use. Ok. Simply download their Application. Log Right, IF the rental Agencies decide to provide digital orchestra books. The same Agencies, of course, that are still sending out books copied 60 years ago by the contractor's brother-in-law! The second is the need for networking rather than for individual, standalone units, with which I completely agree since the concept won't really work to its potential without it, but which inevitably will present the problems of compatibility, setup, and operation that you do not feel are worth worrying about. . Hence which is why you get all the same units, sayoh I dunno, iPads, and they all work fine together. I just don't see why there is this fear of networking.like you need to be some sort of Voodoo priest to get everything to work. And I focus in on Apple because they have a history of having its software work across all its devices. Are you saying that iPods can talk to one another with no intermediary, like a computer or a bunch of cables (with proprietary plugs, of course) or a program to feed information that's automatically formatted for use? Wow! If so, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Second Coming on Christmas! Like Applications made for the iPod from 2 years ago work on the iPod from today. There are no radical hardware differences in the devices that run the software..everything just works. Yeah, and I couldn't get my new MacBook working without a few hours of work by my son-in-law, who IS an IT specialist. All THAT takes is a copy machine, of course. And I'm not sure what kind of detective work the three major rental agencies actually do to track down non-paying performances, but our own community organization simply will NOT try to dodge the legal requirements to save a few bucks on rentals and royalties. Well, you also aren't supposed to make videos or record audio of performances but YouTube is littered with them... Yup. And all that has nothing to do with copyright law. People are simply breaking the provisions of the contracts they signed. Is that really a technical support issue or just that the program doesn't allow it? Well, the point is that I don't know, and don't know how to find out. I mean, before you start using something should you know what it can and can not do? In a perfect world! I didn't choose the program in the first place. It's what Norton uses for the Test Banks they provide. And I've had both a personal visit with one of their Tech people and at least 2 or 3 webinars to go over specific questions, but NONE of that makes me a computer expert. I'm learning the program, slowly, with a lot of trial and error, which is how I learn new programs. Fortunately my daughter is a math specialist and taught a course in Excel for Business Majors, so she's my Tech support for all things Excel. But no, to answer your question, normal users do NOT know what something can do before they start using it. I mean, if I go out and get ProTools say..and then I come to find out that it won't use this really cool Audio Units plugin that I have. Is that something I should have been aware of from the start or is it something I should have known about before getting the program Only time I have seen network problems is when the IT staff had something jacked up because they had no clue how to run anything..of course this was a State College socould explain something.. So is this, and one of the first to require computers for ALL students, back in the '80s. There are an awful lot of very smart people on staff, including the IT staff. And I teach here, but that doesn't make me an IT expert. Hey, man, I'm in the BAND!!! John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:john.how...@vt.edu) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
On Dec 10, 2010, at 6:59 PM, John Howell wrote: > > Right, IF the rental Agencies decide to provide digital orchestra books. The > same Agencies, of course, that are still sending out books copied 60 years > ago by the contractor's brother-in-law! True, though I haven't seen a hand written theater score in a LONG TIME..we'd have to go back to them late 90s I'd say when I first started doing shows. I rack up about 8 to 10 theater gigs/subbing things a year (we are talking different shows, not actual number of times I go out and play). I haven't seen hand written scores at all. > Are you saying that iPods can talk to one another with no intermediary, like > a computer or a bunch of cables (with proprietary plugs, of course) or a > program to feed information that's automatically formatted for use? Wow! If > so, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Second Coming on Christmas! iPad can talk to each other. And iPhones or iPads. There are plenty of games that take advantage of this. > > Yeah, and I couldn't get my new MacBook working without a few hours of work > by my son-in-law, who IS an IT specialist. That is interesting..by working you mean what? I've never heard of a MacBook not working unless it was dead on arrival (UPS dropping it for example). I mean, you turn it on.it asks a couple of questions, and you are all ready to go, Hardly requires hours of work by an IT "specialist". > Yup. And all that has nothing to do with copyright law. People are simply > breaking the provisions of the contracts they signed. Well, that is still enforceable by law...so > Well, the point is that I don't know, and don't know how to find out. So instead of asking maybe the company who made it how to do it you'll just assume it can't and sit and throw rocks at it because of it? I mean, a simple email to the company's support would be a startor consult the manual? Or perhaps an online forum? *Sigh* I mean, come on.. > In a perfect world! I didn't choose the program in the first place. It's > what Norton uses for the Test Banks they provide. And I've had both a > personal visit with one of their Tech people and at least 2 or 3 webinars to > go over specific questions, but NONE of that makes me a computer expert. I'm > learning the program, slowly, with a lot of trial and error, which is how I > learn new programs. Fortunately my daughter is a math specialist and taught > a course in Excel for Business Majors, so she's my Tech support for all > things Excel. But no, to answer your question, normal users do NOT know what > something can do before they start using it. I can make you drink the water, I can just point you towards it. The internet has lots of places where you can find help.it's there. You just need to ask or google it. NOT Sent from my iSomething ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] RE: iPad as electronic music stand
And I think this answers your ExamView problem http://kb.cengage.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=20021260 And they list export to RTF as a feature of the program http://www.formativeassessments.com/formative/examview/features.htm Simple google search of "examview export microsoft word" On Dec 10, 2010, at 6:59 PM, John Howell wrote: >> Is that really a technical support issue or just that the program doesn't >> allow it? > > Well, the point is that I don't know, and don't know how to find out. NOT Sent from my iSomething ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Help! Sudden 2011 articulation glitch
All of a sudden while coming to the end of a piano vocal score project, the articulation tool went batty, and no matter what you clicked or typed, a right parenthesis started appearing (articulation 39). I would be holding down the A key for accent, and a right parenthesis. Or, I would group a bunch of notes to get the articulation assignment box to open, and suddenly all these notes had right parentheses. Since they appear whenever you click on a note, you can't even get the "tool" to open. Have I inadvertently invoked some macro that needs to be undone? I WAS very tired at the time, and my hands were migrating right on my laptop and were sometimes pressing wrong keys. Thanks in advance, Michael Wittenburg ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Help! Sudden 2011 articulation glitch
To me this sounds like one of the keys in your keyboard got sticky. Klaus - Original Message From: "delius...@aol.com" To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Sat, December 11, 2010 6:58:48 AM Subject: [Finale] Help! Sudden 2011 articulation glitch All of a sudden while coming to the end of a piano vocal score project, the articulation tool went batty, and no matter what you clicked or typed, a right parenthesis started appearing (articulation 39). I would be holding down the A key for accent, and a right parenthesis. Or, I would group a bunch of notes to get the articulation assignment box to open, and suddenly all these notes had right parentheses. Since they appear whenever you click on a note, you can't even get the "tool" to open. Have I inadvertently invoked some macro that needs to be undone? I WAS very tired at the time, and my hands were migrating right on my laptop and were sometimes pressing wrong keys. Thanks in advance, Michael Wittenburg ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Ossia problems in 2011
I have never done an ossia in Finale before, let alone 2011. I followed the instructions, adding a "scratch" staff, marking my source measures, etc. However, in the process to hide the scratch system, it also hid the ossia itself! Does anyone know how to work around this issue? Thanks, Michael Wittenburg ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
