Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
In my somewhat less than humble opinion, you're driving yourself nuts trying to do this in Finale, when a MIDI sequencing program, such as DP or Logic, is much more suitable. On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Phil Buglass wrote: > Hi, > > This is a great idea. The problem is that these > tempo marks attach themselves to the beginning of > the measure. The manual says you can attach > expressions to notes, but it doesn't work with > these. I tried dragging them around, but the > attachment snaps to the next measure, not the > next note. The end result is that they all take > effect at the same time, so it ends up being a > tempo change rather than a rallentando. > > Thanks for the help. My brain is fried, and I > think it's time I got on with some other stuff > for now. There has to be a way of getting this > to work... Maybe it will come to me in my sleep or something, > > Thanks again, > > Phil. > > > At 02:17 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >> On 7 Apr 2013, at 1:00 PM, wrote: > > >> If you really don't care what it looks like, you >> can try this: put a real tempo mark (quarter = >> whatever) wherever you want to change >> tempo. For gradual tempo changes, put a tempo >> mark one on every beat (quarter, eighth, >> sixteenth). These DO work, at least nearly >> always. You can create a silent scratch track >> with a string of notes to which to attach the tempo marks. > > > “Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. > Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” Groucho Marx > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > Lon Price lonpr...@txstnr.com http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
Hi, This is a great idea. The problem is that these tempo marks attach themselves to the beginning of the measure. The manual says you can attach expressions to notes, but it doesn't work with these. I tried dragging them around, but the attachment snaps to the next measure, not the next note. The end result is that they all take effect at the same time, so it ends up being a tempo change rather than a rallentando. Thanks for the help. My brain is fried, and I think it's time I got on with some other stuff for now. There has to be a way of getting this to work... Maybe it will come to me in my sleep or something, Thanks again, Phil. At 02:17 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >On 7 Apr 2013, at 1:00 PM, wrote: >If you really don't care what it looks like, you >can try this: put a real tempo mark (quarter = >whatever) wherever you want to change >tempo. For gradual tempo changes, put a tempo >mark one on every beat (quarter, eighth, >sixteenth). These DO work, at least nearly >always. You can create a silent scratch track >with a string of notes to which to attach the tempo marks. Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Post question
Hello: I would like to know about moving specific notes of a chord, given on a single MIDI track, to another staff. It is chord splitting. However, a split point won't work here, what I need to do is divide up the notes in a way that doesn't reflect split "top to bottom" etc., but by individual note. I have looked into cross staff notation, note mover, and the MIDI tools, but can't find a solution. Simply put, I need control over each note in a given chord of a given MIDI track, to move the chosen notes to a separate staff. I believe the Note Mover tool might help, but it doesn't appear to be able to handle regions of repeated chords. Thanks! Very best, Dean Rosenthal -- updated site: www.deanrosenthal.org ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
I tried that, but it did even less than before. I just tried editing the shape of the rall expression, but even changing the numbers to ridiculous values, I can't detect any change to the tempo. I put both the time and scale numbers to around 25, which according to the manual, should almost stop the piece dead in its tracks! Nope. Correction, it *does* drag the piece to a halt, but it takes about 6 measures before it starts to take effect! I guess I will go and play with those numbers again... The balance bit, well I have the first soprano (not alto as I said before) up to 117 on the slider. That one section is still barely audible. The rest of the piece is ok for volume. That section is also marked forte. It's like this thing is fighting back or something! There can't be too many ways to set the volume for a voice, surely? Phil. At 02:17 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >Try the modulation I described. And check the GPO patch to make sure it is >loaded OK. Also, don't forget you can adjust balance in the "Studio" view. > > > > >Raymond Horton >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC >Composer, Arranger >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > No, they are not repeating notes. Besides, it is > > a 2-measure phrase which repeats several times > > among different voices, and all the others play > > ok. Just the alto line, which is turned up > > pretty high, and marked forte right at that entry. > > > > I have tried this new stripped-down copy both > > with and without HP, but it doesn't seem to make much difference either > > way. > > > > Phil. > > > > At 01:57 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > > >Are the notes that are not playing repeated notes of the same pitch? > > > > > >I often have to shorten notes so the repeated ones will play. I will > > >routinely use the midi tool to highlight the entire score, then under midi > > >tool menu select "edit note durations," then "percent alter" to a number > > >like 96 or 94 percent of original length (or higher or lower, depending on > > >the legato vs staccato nature of the score and how much reverb you are > > >using). That takes care of the repeated notes problem. > > > > > >Human playback seems to make notes longer than 100% and the overlap > > creates > > >the problem. > > > > > > > > >For volumes, you can strip the midi velocities using the procedure I > > >described earlier, and just use volumes. > > > > > >The idiosyncratic nature of playback seems to multiply with Finale X Human > > >Playback X GPO, but with patience can really pay off. Speaking of > > >playback volume, when GPO first appeared, it only responded to commands > > >that used Modulation, not Key Velocity. This meant we had to define a set > > >of dynamics that used the Mod wheel. Later, GPO was supposed to respond > > to > > >the same Key Velocity dynamics that Finale had by default. But, sometimes > > >I notice that those don't work and I have to define some for Modulation. > > I > > >haven't needed to make a good demo in a while, so I don't know where this > > >stands, now, so try some of both. (To define a dynamic for Modulation, > > >"duplicate" a dynamic and "edit" the "playback" to "controller / > > >modulation" and try some different numbers there.) > > > > > >Raymond Horton > > >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra > > >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC > > >Composer, Arranger > > >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > > > > > > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Phil Buglass > > wrote: > > > > > > > As I said in another post, most of the tempo > > > > changes - both wanted and unwanted - failed to > > > > survive the night. I think the cat must be > > > > getting on here after I am asleep... > > > > > > > > Today's problem is getting the program to > > > > consistently play the notes that are there. I > > > > have a couple of sections where nothing gets > > > > played in one part for a few measures. I have > > > > some places where it gets played but *so* quietly > > > > that I am not sure it isn't my imagination > > > > providing a 'fill in'. I have the volumes > > > > turned up pretty high using studio view, and the > > > > parts are marked f or ff, but they still play very quietly. > > > > > > > > I haven't given up yet, but there are a few head-shaped dents in the > > > > wall... > > > > > > > > Phil. > > > > > > > > At 12:02 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > > > > >OK, Phil, looking over your older posts, I am guessing you are using > > > > >Finale-Windows 2012. I have that, but because of a couple of issues I > > > > >reverted to 2011. I am going to be trying 2012 again in a few days, > > > > though. > > > > > > > > > >I think this stuff has not changed, so try this: > > > > > > > > > >1) Save your file > > > > > > > > > >2) With the Selection Tool, select all of the bars from which you > > want to > > > > >remove the tempo changes. Depending on the leng
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
Try the modulation I described. And check the GPO patch to make sure it is loaded OK. Also, don't forget you can adjust balance in the "Studio" view. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:12 PM, Phil Buglass wrote: > No, they are not repeating notes. Besides, it is > a 2-measure phrase which repeats several times > among different voices, and all the others play > ok. Just the alto line, which is turned up > pretty high, and marked forte right at that entry. > > I have tried this new stripped-down copy both > with and without HP, but it doesn't seem to make much difference either > way. > > Phil. > > At 01:57 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > >Are the notes that are not playing repeated notes of the same pitch? > > > >I often have to shorten notes so the repeated ones will play. I will > >routinely use the midi tool to highlight the entire score, then under midi > >tool menu select "edit note durations," then "percent alter" to a number > >like 96 or 94 percent of original length (or higher or lower, depending on > >the legato vs staccato nature of the score and how much reverb you are > >using). That takes care of the repeated notes problem. > > > >Human playback seems to make notes longer than 100% and the overlap > creates > >the problem. > > > > > >For volumes, you can strip the midi velocities using the procedure I > >described earlier, and just use volumes. > > > >The idiosyncratic nature of playback seems to multiply with Finale X Human > >Playback X GPO, but with patience can really pay off. Speaking of > >playback volume, when GPO first appeared, it only responded to commands > >that used Modulation, not Key Velocity. This meant we had to define a set > >of dynamics that used the Mod wheel. Later, GPO was supposed to respond > to > >the same Key Velocity dynamics that Finale had by default. But, sometimes > >I notice that those don't work and I have to define some for Modulation. > I > >haven't needed to make a good demo in a while, so I don't know where this > >stands, now, so try some of both. (To define a dynamic for Modulation, > >"duplicate" a dynamic and "edit" the "playback" to "controller / > >modulation" and try some different numbers there.) > > > >Raymond Horton > >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra > >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC > >Composer, Arranger > >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > > > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Phil Buglass > wrote: > > > > > As I said in another post, most of the tempo > > > changes - both wanted and unwanted - failed to > > > survive the night. I think the cat must be > > > getting on here after I am asleep... > > > > > > Today's problem is getting the program to > > > consistently play the notes that are there. I > > > have a couple of sections where nothing gets > > > played in one part for a few measures. I have > > > some places where it gets played but *so* quietly > > > that I am not sure it isn't my imagination > > > providing a 'fill in'. I have the volumes > > > turned up pretty high using studio view, and the > > > parts are marked f or ff, but they still play very quietly. > > > > > > I haven't given up yet, but there are a few head-shaped dents in the > > > wall... > > > > > > Phil. > > > > > > At 12:02 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > > > >OK, Phil, looking over your older posts, I am guessing you are using > > > >Finale-Windows 2012. I have that, but because of a couple of issues I > > > >reverted to 2011. I am going to be trying 2012 again in a few days, > > > though. > > > > > > > >I think this stuff has not changed, so try this: > > > > > > > >1) Save your file > > > > > > > >2) With the Selection Tool, select all of the bars from which you > want to > > > >remove the tempo changes. Depending on the length of the piece, you > can > > > do > > > >this with a shift-click at both ends, or you can go to the "Edit" > menu and > > > >click "select region and follow the instructions there. You'll > probably > > > >want to select all of the staves (vertically) in the region. > > > > > > > >3) Click on the "Edit" menu again, and click on "clear selected > items." > > > A > > > >menu will open up - first, select "none." Then, select "midi data" > on the > > > >right, and "Expressions: Tempo marks..." (etc.) on the left. Click > "OK" > > > at > > > >the bottom, and it should clear all of the extra expressions and any > > > hidden > > > >midi info. > > > > > > > >4) Then save it under a different name, just in case you deleted > anything > > > >important, play it back and see where you are. We can go from there. > > > > > > > >Raymond Horton > > > >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra > > > >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC > > > >Composer, Arranger > > > >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > > > > > > > > > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Phil Buglass > > > wrote: > >
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
On 7 Apr 2013, at 1:00 PM, wrote: > That is what I am finding too... It is a bit > annoying, having just bought GPO4, especially to get better-sounding output. > Most of the stuff I have done, the appearance is > most important. It is going to be used by real > people, and the audio output is just for my own > use as I work on it. This time, I am working on > some pieces which are going to be played through > an audio system in lieu of real people. The > appearance doesn't matter half as much, but it needs to sound right. > I have never tried exporting midi from finale to > another program, but I know that it doesn't > import midi too successfully. The few times I > have tried, I ended up scrapping it and entering > the music by hand. I don't mind that, but it > would be a real pain if I were working on a symphony! > > Thanks, > > Phil. I think the tempo changes using the tempo tool or the built-in ritard/accel or using the shape designer to create your own slopes are problematic, always have been. I have, at various times, really tried to figure them out, and got inconsistent results, even when I triple-checked my work. I also use other programs when playback is crucial. Used to use DP, now use Logic. Always do separate passes, never try to get the MIDI back and forth to work. Sometimes, I've exported audio from Finale and tweaked that (amazing things can be done with fine tempo and dynamic control to audio using these programs). If you want to use MIDI, on Apple products the GPO plugin is usable in the other programs, since they are all Audio Units. I think this probably is true on the Windows side (VST?). However, if you want this to work in Finale, I think it is possible. If you really don't care what it looks like, you can try this: put a real tempo mark (quarter = whatever) wherever you want to change tempo. For gradual tempo changes, put a tempo mark one on every beat (quarter, eighth, sixteenth). These DO work, at least nearly always. You can create a silent scratch track with a string of notes to which to attach the tempo marks. If you DO care what it looks like, you can hide those tempo marks (group-select and hide), and I think you can hide the scratch track. The scratch track might work in an unused layer (layer 4?), and I believe you can set that layer not to display. I think TG trills put playback hidden in layer 4, so that should work. Then you can put in purely graphic "rit" or "accel" marks, but make sure they are disconnected from anything related to playback. You probably also want to turn off human playback. That does all kinds of inconsistent things that I've never been able to control to my satisfaction, even wading into the HP preference settings. Whenever you put in expressions, double-check the playback tab to make sure it does exactly what you want. Finale was designed primarily as a notation tool, with MIDI as an afterthought (especially MIDI playback). It is better than it used to be, and vastly better, comparatively speaking, than the notation side of DP or Logic or any of the audio-centric programs. I think MIDI playback is vastly easier than notation, and it has always puzzled me why this is one area where Finale has failed to please. Finale, forever, has been the tool that gives the user enough control to be able to find work-arounds and options. MIDI playback, if you don't like HP and the other things that come built-in, has long been (and continues to be) a very frustrating thing. Good luck with this. David Froom ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
No, they are not repeating notes. Besides, it is a 2-measure phrase which repeats several times among different voices, and all the others play ok. Just the alto line, which is turned up pretty high, and marked forte right at that entry. I have tried this new stripped-down copy both with and without HP, but it doesn't seem to make much difference either way. Phil. At 01:57 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >Are the notes that are not playing repeated notes of the same pitch? > >I often have to shorten notes so the repeated ones will play. I will >routinely use the midi tool to highlight the entire score, then under midi >tool menu select "edit note durations," then "percent alter" to a number >like 96 or 94 percent of original length (or higher or lower, depending on >the legato vs staccato nature of the score and how much reverb you are >using). That takes care of the repeated notes problem. > >Human playback seems to make notes longer than 100% and the overlap creates >the problem. > > >For volumes, you can strip the midi velocities using the procedure I >described earlier, and just use volumes. > >The idiosyncratic nature of playback seems to multiply with Finale X Human >Playback X GPO, but with patience can really pay off. Speaking of >playback volume, when GPO first appeared, it only responded to commands >that used Modulation, not Key Velocity. This meant we had to define a set >of dynamics that used the Mod wheel. Later, GPO was supposed to respond to >the same Key Velocity dynamics that Finale had by default. But, sometimes >I notice that those don't work and I have to define some for Modulation. I >haven't needed to make a good demo in a while, so I don't know where this >stands, now, so try some of both. (To define a dynamic for Modulation, >"duplicate" a dynamic and "edit" the "playback" to "controller / >modulation" and try some different numbers there.) > >Raymond Horton >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC >Composer, Arranger >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > As I said in another post, most of the tempo > > changes - both wanted and unwanted - failed to > > survive the night. I think the cat must be > > getting on here after I am asleep... > > > > Today's problem is getting the program to > > consistently play the notes that are there. I > > have a couple of sections where nothing gets > > played in one part for a few measures. I have > > some places where it gets played but *so* quietly > > that I am not sure it isn't my imagination > > providing a 'fill in'. I have the volumes > > turned up pretty high using studio view, and the > > parts are marked f or ff, but they still play very quietly. > > > > I haven't given up yet, but there are a few head-shaped dents in the > > wall... > > > > Phil. > > > > At 12:02 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > > >OK, Phil, looking over your older posts, I am guessing you are using > > >Finale-Windows 2012. I have that, but because of a couple of issues I > > >reverted to 2011. I am going to be trying 2012 again in a few days, > > though. > > > > > >I think this stuff has not changed, so try this: > > > > > >1) Save your file > > > > > >2) With the Selection Tool, select all of the bars from which you want to > > >remove the tempo changes. Depending on the length of the piece, you can > > do > > >this with a shift-click at both ends, or you can go to the "Edit" menu and > > >click "select region and follow the instructions there. You'll probably > > >want to select all of the staves (vertically) in the region. > > > > > >3) Click on the "Edit" menu again, and click on "clear selected items." > > A > > >menu will open up - first, select "none." Then, select "midi data" on the > > >right, and "Expressions: Tempo marks..." (etc.) on the left. Click "OK" > > at > > >the bottom, and it should clear all of the extra expressions and any > > hidden > > >midi info. > > > > > >4) Then save it under a different name, just in case you deleted anything > > >important, play it back and see where you are. We can go from there. > > > > > >Raymond Horton > > >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra > > >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC > > >Composer, Arranger > > >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > > > > > > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Phil Buglass > > wrote: > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > > > > > > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > > > > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > > > > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > > > > to get it to sound right is driving me in > > > > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > > > > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > > > > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be > > off. > > > > > > > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > > > > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
Yeah, I have heard the ones on the garritan website. They are amazing. Anyway, I cleared out the data from the second half of the file, like you said in your previous message. Putting in a rall in the last couple of measures actually worked! Doing it in the problem measure, however, didn't make any difference. The program just ignores it. I also put it in at another measure, which the program follows - but completely ignores the 'a tempo' in the next measure... Phil At 01:41 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >I have gotten some great sounding demo recordings using Finale and GPO. > Takes a little work, but you just have to figure out the best ways to use >GPO. > > > >Raymond Horton >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC >Composer, Arranger >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > That is what I am finding too... It is a bit > > annoying, having just bought GPO4, especially to get better-sounding > > output. > > Most of the stuff I have done, the appearance is > > most important. It is going to be used by real > > people, and the audio output is just for my own > > use as I work on it. This time, I am working on > > some pieces which are going to be played through > > an audio system in lieu of real people. The > > appearance doesn't matter half as much, but it needs to sound right. > > I have never tried exporting midi from finale to > > another program, but I know that it doesn't > > import midi too successfully. The few times I > > have tried, I ended up scrapping it and entering > > the music by hand. I don't mind that, but it > > would be a real pain if I were working on a symphony! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Phil. > > > > At 12:18 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > > >I've been using Finale since 2000 and I've found > > >that when I need truly realistic playback I need > > >to go elsewhere for it. In my case I use MOTU's > > >Digital Performer. I DO NOT try to import or > > >export MIDI files, as I've found that to be too > > >problematic. So I end up doing all of the work > > >twice, but that's what I have to to in order to > > >get my music to sound right on one hand (in DP), > > >and to look right on the other (in Finale). > > > > > >On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > > > > > > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > > > > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > > > > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > > > > to get it to sound right is driving me in > > > > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > > > > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > > > > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be > > off. > > > > > > > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > > > > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > > > > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > > > > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > > > > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > > > > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > > > > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > > > > been working with the program for years, while I > > > > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > > > > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > > > > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > > > > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > > > > couldn't get it to play properly. > > > > > > > > I have places in this piece where the program > > > > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > > > > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > > > > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > > > > a bit of melody which hops around different > > > > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > > > > first note and then ignores the rest. > > > > > > > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > > > > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > > > > > > > Phil. > > > > > > > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > > > > > > > >> You could clear the performance data > > > >> > > > >> Mark McCarron > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. > > > > Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > Finale mailing list > > > > Finale@shsu.edu > > > > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Lon Price > > >lonpr...@txstnr.com > > >http://www.txstnr.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___ > > >Finale mailing list > > >Finale@shsu.edu > > >http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > > > Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. > > Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx > > ___ > > Finale mailing list > > Finale@shsu.e
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
Are the notes that are not playing repeated notes of the same pitch? I often have to shorten notes so the repeated ones will play. I will routinely use the midi tool to highlight the entire score, then under midi tool menu select "edit note durations," then "percent alter" to a number like 96 or 94 percent of original length (or higher or lower, depending on the legato vs staccato nature of the score and how much reverb you are using). That takes care of the repeated notes problem. Human playback seems to make notes longer than 100% and the overlap creates the problem. For volumes, you can strip the midi velocities using the procedure I described earlier, and just use volumes. The idiosyncratic nature of playback seems to multiply with Finale X Human Playback X GPO, but with patience can really pay off. Speaking of playback volume, when GPO first appeared, it only responded to commands that used Modulation, not Key Velocity. This meant we had to define a set of dynamics that used the Mod wheel. Later, GPO was supposed to respond to the same Key Velocity dynamics that Finale had by default. But, sometimes I notice that those don't work and I have to define some for Modulation. I haven't needed to make a good demo in a while, so I don't know where this stands, now, so try some of both. (To define a dynamic for Modulation, "duplicate" a dynamic and "edit" the "playback" to "controller / modulation" and try some different numbers there.) Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Phil Buglass wrote: > As I said in another post, most of the tempo > changes - both wanted and unwanted - failed to > survive the night. I think the cat must be > getting on here after I am asleep... > > Today's problem is getting the program to > consistently play the notes that are there. I > have a couple of sections where nothing gets > played in one part for a few measures. I have > some places where it gets played but *so* quietly > that I am not sure it isn't my imagination > providing a 'fill in'. I have the volumes > turned up pretty high using studio view, and the > parts are marked f or ff, but they still play very quietly. > > I haven't given up yet, but there are a few head-shaped dents in the > wall... > > Phil. > > At 12:02 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > >OK, Phil, looking over your older posts, I am guessing you are using > >Finale-Windows 2012. I have that, but because of a couple of issues I > >reverted to 2011. I am going to be trying 2012 again in a few days, > though. > > > >I think this stuff has not changed, so try this: > > > >1) Save your file > > > >2) With the Selection Tool, select all of the bars from which you want to > >remove the tempo changes. Depending on the length of the piece, you can > do > >this with a shift-click at both ends, or you can go to the "Edit" menu and > >click "select region and follow the instructions there. You'll probably > >want to select all of the staves (vertically) in the region. > > > >3) Click on the "Edit" menu again, and click on "clear selected items." > A > >menu will open up - first, select "none." Then, select "midi data" on the > >right, and "Expressions: Tempo marks..." (etc.) on the left. Click "OK" > at > >the bottom, and it should clear all of the extra expressions and any > hidden > >midi info. > > > >4) Then save it under a different name, just in case you deleted anything > >important, play it back and see where you are. We can go from there. > > > >Raymond Horton > >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra > >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC > >Composer, Arranger > >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > > > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Phil Buglass > wrote: > > > > > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > > > > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > > > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > > > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > > > to get it to sound right is driving me in > > > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > > > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > > > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be > off. > > > > > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > > > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > > > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > > > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > > > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > > > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > > > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > > > been working with the program for years, while I > > > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > > > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > > > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > > > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > > > couldn't get it to play properly. >
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
I have gotten some great sounding demo recordings using Finale and GPO. Takes a little work, but you just have to figure out the best ways to use GPO. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Phil Buglass wrote: > That is what I am finding too... It is a bit > annoying, having just bought GPO4, especially to get better-sounding > output. > Most of the stuff I have done, the appearance is > most important. It is going to be used by real > people, and the audio output is just for my own > use as I work on it. This time, I am working on > some pieces which are going to be played through > an audio system in lieu of real people. The > appearance doesn't matter half as much, but it needs to sound right. > I have never tried exporting midi from finale to > another program, but I know that it doesn't > import midi too successfully. The few times I > have tried, I ended up scrapping it and entering > the music by hand. I don't mind that, but it > would be a real pain if I were working on a symphony! > > Thanks, > > Phil. > > At 12:18 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: > >I've been using Finale since 2000 and I've found > >that when I need truly realistic playback I need > >to go elsewhere for it. In my case I use MOTU's > >Digital Performer. I DO NOT try to import or > >export MIDI files, as I've found that to be too > >problematic. So I end up doing all of the work > >twice, but that's what I have to to in order to > >get my music to sound right on one hand (in DP), > >and to look right on the other (in Finale). > > > >On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > > > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > > > > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > > > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > > > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > > > to get it to sound right is driving me in > > > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > > > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > > > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be > off. > > > > > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > > > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > > > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > > > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > > > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > > > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > > > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > > > been working with the program for years, while I > > > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > > > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > > > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > > > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > > > couldn't get it to play properly. > > > > > > I have places in this piece where the program > > > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > > > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > > > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > > > a bit of melody which hops around different > > > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > > > first note and then ignores the rest. > > > > > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > > > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > > > > > Phil. > > > > > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > > > > > >> You could clear the performance data > > >> > > >> Mark McCarron > > > > > > > > > > > > “Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. > > > Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” Groucho Marx > > > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Finale mailing list > > > Finale@shsu.edu > > > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > > > > > > >Lon Price > >lonpr...@txstnr.com > >http://www.txstnr.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > >___ > >Finale mailing list > >Finale@shsu.edu > >http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > “Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. > Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” Groucho Marx > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
As I said in another post, most of the tempo changes - both wanted and unwanted - failed to survive the night. I think the cat must be getting on here after I am asleep... Today's problem is getting the program to consistently play the notes that are there. I have a couple of sections where nothing gets played in one part for a few measures. I have some places where it gets played but *so* quietly that I am not sure it isn't my imagination providing a 'fill in'. I have the volumes turned up pretty high using studio view, and the parts are marked f or ff, but they still play very quietly. I haven't given up yet, but there are a few head-shaped dents in the wall... Phil. At 12:02 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >OK, Phil, looking over your older posts, I am guessing you are using >Finale-Windows 2012. I have that, but because of a couple of issues I >reverted to 2011. I am going to be trying 2012 again in a few days, though. > >I think this stuff has not changed, so try this: > >1) Save your file > >2) With the Selection Tool, select all of the bars from which you want to >remove the tempo changes. Depending on the length of the piece, you can do >this with a shift-click at both ends, or you can go to the "Edit" menu and >click "select region and follow the instructions there. You'll probably >want to select all of the staves (vertically) in the region. > >3) Click on the "Edit" menu again, and click on "clear selected items." A >menu will open up - first, select "none." Then, select "midi data" on the >right, and "Expressions: Tempo marks..." (etc.) on the left. Click "OK" at >the bottom, and it should clear all of the extra expressions and any hidden >midi info. > >4) Then save it under a different name, just in case you deleted anything >important, play it back and see where you are. We can go from there. > >Raymond Horton >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC >Composer, Arranger >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > > to get it to sound right is driving me in > > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be off. > > > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > > been working with the program for years, while I > > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > > couldn't get it to play properly. > > > > I have places in this piece where the program > > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > > a bit of melody which hops around different > > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > > first note and then ignores the rest. > > > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > > > Phil. > > > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > > > > >You could clear the performance data > > > > > >Mark McCarron > > > > > > > > Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. > > Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx > > > > > > > > ___ > > Finale mailing list > > Finale@shsu.edu > > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > >___ >Finale mailing list >Finale@shsu.edu >http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
That is what I am finding too... It is a bit annoying, having just bought GPO4, especially to get better-sounding output. Most of the stuff I have done, the appearance is most important. It is going to be used by real people, and the audio output is just for my own use as I work on it. This time, I am working on some pieces which are going to be played through an audio system in lieu of real people. The appearance doesn't matter half as much, but it needs to sound right. I have never tried exporting midi from finale to another program, but I know that it doesn't import midi too successfully. The few times I have tried, I ended up scrapping it and entering the music by hand. I don't mind that, but it would be a real pain if I were working on a symphony! Thanks, Phil. At 12:18 PM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >I've been using Finale since 2000 and I've found >that when I need truly realistic playback I need >to go elsewhere for it. In my case I use MOTU's >Digital Performer. I DO NOT try to import or >export MIDI files, as I've found that to be too >problematic. So I end up doing all of the work >twice, but that's what I have to to in order to >get my music to sound right on one hand (in DP), >and to look right on the other (in Finale). > >On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > > to get it to sound right is driving me in > > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be off. > > > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > > been working with the program for years, while I > > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > > couldn't get it to play properly. > > > > I have places in this piece where the program > > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > > a bit of melody which hops around different > > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > > first note and then ignores the rest. > > > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > > > Phil. > > > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > > > >> You could clear the performance data > >> > >> Mark McCarron > > > > > > > > Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. > > Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx > > > > > > > > ___ > > Finale mailing list > > Finale@shsu.edu > > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > > > > >Lon Price >lonpr...@txstnr.com >http://www.txstnr.com/ > > > > > >___ >Finale mailing list >Finale@shsu.edu >http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
I've been using Finale since 2000 and I've found that when I need truly realistic playback I need to go elsewhere for it. In my case I use MOTU's Digital Performer. I DO NOT try to import or export MIDI files, as I've found that to be too problematic. So I end up doing all of the work twice, but that's what I have to to in order to get my music to sound right on one hand (in DP), and to look right on the other (in Finale). On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > to get it to sound right is driving me in > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be off. > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > been working with the program for years, while I > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > couldn't get it to play properly. > > I have places in this piece where the program > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > a bit of melody which hops around different > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > first note and then ignores the rest. > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > Phil. > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > >> You could clear the performance data >> >> Mark McCarron > > > > “Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. > Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” Groucho Marx > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > Lon Price lonpr...@txstnr.com http://www.txstnr.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
OK, Phil, looking over your older posts, I am guessing you are using Finale-Windows 2012. I have that, but because of a couple of issues I reverted to 2011. I am going to be trying 2012 again in a few days, though. I think this stuff has not changed, so try this: 1) Save your file 2) With the Selection Tool, select all of the bars from which you want to remove the tempo changes. Depending on the length of the piece, you can do this with a shift-click at both ends, or you can go to the "Edit" menu and click "select region and follow the instructions there. You'll probably want to select all of the staves (vertically) in the region. 3) Click on the "Edit" menu again, and click on "clear selected items." A menu will open up - first, select "none." Then, select "midi data" on the right, and "Expressions: Tempo marks..." (etc.) on the left. Click "OK" at the bottom, and it should clear all of the extra expressions and any hidden midi info. 4) Then save it under a different name, just in case you deleted anything important, play it back and see where you are. We can go from there. Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > to get it to sound right is driving me in > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be off. > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > been working with the program for years, while I > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > couldn't get it to play properly. > > I have places in this piece where the program > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > a bit of melody which hops around different > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > first note and then ignores the rest. > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > Phil. > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > > >You could clear the performance data > > > >Mark McCarron > > > > “Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. > Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” Groucho Marx > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
I have finale 2012c on a pc running windows 7 ultimate 64-bit. To give an idea of why I am so aggravated, all those tempo changes which I put in yesterday? Most of them have gone away overnight. My first guess there would be user error - but I kept saving every few minutes while I was working on it... Phil. At 11:43 AM 4/7/2013, you wrote: >What version (what year, and Mac or Windows) of Finale are you using, Phil? > > > >Raymond Horton >Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra >Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC >Composer, Arranger >VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com > > >On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > > > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > > to get it to sound right is driving me in > > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be off. > > > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > > been working with the program for years, while I > > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > > couldn't get it to play properly. > > > > I have places in this piece where the program > > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > > a bit of melody which hops around different > > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > > first note and then ignores the rest. > > > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > > > Phil. > > > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > > > > >You could clear the performance data > > > > > >Mark McCarron > > Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Tempo changes
What version (what year, and Mac or Windows) of Finale are you using, Phil? Raymond Horton Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) UMC Composer, Arranger VISIT US AT rayhortonmusic.com On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Phil Buglass wrote: > I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... > > I am finding this process very frustrating. Most > of my stuff is producing printed music to be > played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying > to get it to sound right is driving me in > circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, > slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human > playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be off. > > I could probably do this easier using midi in > Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out > hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get > the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the > Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell > they weren't played by real musicians. How do > they do it??? I realise that they have probably > been working with the program for years, while I > have had it about 3 months, but even then... I > could do it in midi then import it, but importing > midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One > piece I ended up entering from scratch because I > couldn't get it to play properly. > > I have places in this piece where the program > doesn't play the notes that are written. Just > totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at > least I would have an idea where to look. I have > a bit of melody which hops around different > parts, and in at least one place, it plays the > first note and then ignores the rest. > > Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just > fighting a very steep learning curve! > > Phil. > > At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: > > >You could clear the performance data > > > >Mark McCarron > > > > “Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. > Inside of a dog it’s too dark to read.” Groucho Marx > > > > ___ > Finale mailing list > Finale@shsu.edu > http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale > > ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Tempo changes
I'm sorry, I don't know how to do that... I am finding this process very frustrating. Most of my stuff is producing printed music to be played, but this one is to be 'performed'. Trying to get it to sound right is driving me in circles. Some of the stuff - articulations, slurs, for example - are interpreted by the human playback. To get it to alter tempo, the manual says that HP has to be off. I could probably do this easier using midi in Music Creator, but this was why I shelled out hard-earned money to buy the Garritan GPO, to get the realistic sound. Some of the examples on the Garritan website are incredible - I couldn't tell they weren't played by real musicians. How do they do it??? I realise that they have probably been working with the program for years, while I have had it about 3 months, but even then... I could do it in midi then import it, but importing midi is not the program's strongest aspect. One piece I ended up entering from scratch because I couldn't get it to play properly. I have places in this piece where the program doesn't play the notes that are written. Just totally ignores them! If it played them wrong, at least I would have an idea where to look. I have a bit of melody which hops around different parts, and in at least one place, it plays the first note and then ignores the rest. Hey guys, sorry for the rant. I guess I am just fighting a very steep learning curve! Phil. At 06:00 PM 4/6/2013, you wrote: >You could clear the performance data > >Mark McCarron Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog its too dark to read. Groucho Marx ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
