[Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
I use F2014. On balance, for me it does enough things better than earlier releases to justify staying on that level. But just barely. The product is still riddled with bugs. The most annoying ones for me are in Human Playback. There are all sorts of cases where volumes get gut back to almost nothing, of voices go away entirely for several measures. Staccatos are all over the map in their interpretation. In fast passages some notes don't sound -- as if HP sands the note-off before the note-on. None of these HP problems are seen in normal playback without HP. Basically HP is a real mess. I have opened tickets on specific items, but the staff always just blows them off as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Given that Finale's exercise guru owners are moving the company to Boulder, and they were not known for putting out many fixes even before that, what are the odds that we will ever see any more fixes? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
On 10/13/2014 7:21 AM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: I use F2014. On balance, for me it does enough things better than earlier releases to justify staying on that level. But just barely. The product is still riddled with bugs. The most annoying ones for me are in Human Playback. There are all sorts of cases where volumes get gut back to almost nothing, of voices go away entirely for several measures. Staccatos are all over the map in their interpretation. In fast passages some notes don't sound -- as if HP sands the note-off before the note-on. None of these HP problems are seen in normal playback without HP. Basically HP is a real mess. I have opened tickets on specific items, but the staff always just blows them off as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Given that Finale's exercise guru owners are moving the company to Boulder, and they were not known for putting out many fixes even before that, what are the odds that we will ever see any more fixes? Given the dominance of bugs over actual fixes and improvements, I have stuck with F2010. Every version since then has been so problem-ridden as to make it unusable. cd ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
Am 13.10.2014 16:21, schrieb Craig Parmerlee: I have opened tickets on specific items, but the staff always just blows them off as if I don't know what I'm talking about. Craig, I have seen the same with the MM staff and HP ... until I started sending them screencam videos that capture the bug behaviour in realtime and within the default document. All the faulty behaviour was finally confirmed - also all the bugs that you mention. For example, the note-off before note-on is described in detail in support case 140228-000408. I also found it pretty frustrating that the MM support wasn't able to understand some of the HP problems at first. And none of these issues were fixed in the 2014 updates, although they were known months before. Don't give up ... and keep on complaining about HP, hopefully HP will get better in the next release. If you need more info on HP bugs and the support cases, you can send a PM. Jan ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
On 10/13/2014 10:29 AM, dershem wrote: Given the dominance of bugs over actual fixes and improvements, I have stuck with F2010. Every version since then has been so problem-ridden as to make it unusable. Yes, I know many people have made that decision. But my question is really more about what we should expect from this company in the future. What I am really asking is whether anybody sees any reason to expect that anything will improve. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
I work every note I can in win2012, go into 2014 only when absolutely necessary, then rush back home to 2012. I hope the company gets its act together. On Oct 13, 2014 11:05 AM, Craig Parmerlee cr...@parmerlee.com wrote: On 10/13/2014 10:29 AM, dershem wrote: Given the dominance of bugs over actual fixes and improvements, I have stuck with F2010. Every version since then has been so problem-ridden as to make it unusable. Yes, I know many people have made that decision. But my question is really more about what we should expect from this company in the future. What I am really asking is whether anybody sees any reason to expect that anything will improve. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
I would like to counter some of the negative comments. I never used Fin10, but I think Fin12 is quite stable and I used it for a couple of years without issues. In the last couple of months I migrated to Fin14, and I have to say that, despite the relative instability compared with Fin12 I am hooked. I love the Keyless score feature and the changes to how smart shapes are assigned. And the unlinkability of special tools means that I have finally arrived at the holy grail of true linked parts for nearly all the projects I do, with almost no need for compromise. (If only they had made accidental freezing, parenthesizing, and movement unlinkable, then I really would not have to compromise at all. Unlinkable vertical rest placement would be a big time saver.) To mitigate the instability I have shortened by autosave window to 5 minutes. It's not that big of a deal really, though I hope we get some improvements without having to wait for a future upgrade. Obviously, ymmv. On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Raymond Horton horton.raym...@gmail.com wrote: I work every note I can in win2012, go into 2014 only when absolutely necessary, then rush back home to 2012. I hope the company gets its act together. On Oct 13, 2014 11:05 AM, Craig Parmerlee cr...@parmerlee.com wrote: On 10/13/2014 10:29 AM, dershem wrote: Given the dominance of bugs over actual fixes and improvements, I have stuck with F2010. Every version since then has been so problem-ridden as to make it unusable. Yes, I know many people have made that decision. But my question is really more about what we should expect from this company in the future. What I am really asking is whether anybody sees any reason to expect that anything will improve. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
Michael Good poked his head into our mailing list early last month, but there's no clue if he heard the responses, so I have copied him on this email. I would love to have a bug-fix release, and would pay for it. Several people have requests for new features, but a lot of traffic on this list concerns bugs. A number of users are using previous Finale versions due to various issues. Quote from Michael's email of 7/30: As a general rule, I will never be able to offer dates or estimates for future features, bug fixes, releases, or downloads. What I can do is acknowledge the issue and work with my colleagues to create ever better products in the future. I, for one, don't need a better product - I just want the one I have to work as it should. I would love to hear that someone in MakeMusic takes our concerns with bug-fixes seriously. Here's a repost of my earlier email (a number of bug-fixes were requested in response to this email): Here's a few of my bugs, and a few wishes as well: Chords become unchecked in the filter. Articulation macro doesn't always work. Selection tool is buggy. Shift-click doesn't always encompass selection. In Speedy entry, can't always select the last note in the frame. Spacebar-click doesn't always start playback. Finale must be restarted to enable playback. In JazzFont, the augmentation dot on a dotted-eighth rest is spaced too far to the right. Finale 2014 shuts down for no apparent reason. Finale 2014 shuts down randomly when I use Transcribe! software. There are a few Jazzfont characters which need reworking (eg, the Z looks like a 2). (I contacted Customer Support re: the shutdown issues, but nothing they suggested worked.) Aria loading is painfully slow. Not a bug, but. . . Edit toolbar should be available (Save, Do/Undo, Print, etc). I REALLY miss this! Open most recent document should be an option for startup action. It would be nice to have user-defined text inserts. Adjust Jazzfont Chord Symbols to conform with Roemer-Brandt styling. There are others who more serious issues than mine - I hope you all will chime in! I love the linked parts - that's been my favorite upgrade feature of recent releases. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
No. I don't understand why it's acceptable for a product to be sold with enough bugs. Paying for a bug-fix release (one that would riddled with at least some other issues) is not the answer. Imagine if you bought a widescreen tv, only to find that certain features worked only some of the time and some not at all, to compound this, your cable service also presented programming issues and challenges. Or your car. Features as prominent as a gauge. Or even a major program like Mathematica, which is at least equally sophisticated in context to Finale. Or an Adobe product. Think about what it would mean to the market and to advances and innovations. We are stuck with a great application that is unfortunately far from perfect and for some reason the company does not have high enough standards to perfect their product the way the other products I've mentioned perfect them. Comments? Dean -- Dean Rosenthal www.deanrosenthal.org On Oct 13, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Girard Bowe girard.b...@verizon.net wrote: I would love to have a bug-fix release, and would pay for it. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
Comparing software to a TV doesn't work. Or your car. Its ridiculous. Adobe's products are FAR from perfect and most of them have a list of legacy bugs that would make Finale's look teeny weenie. And Adobe also does what people are accusing MakeMusic of.moving on and fixing issues (or working around them) in newer versions. Most all companies do that I think (Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc). On Oct 13, 2014, at 10:15 AM, Dean Rosenthal deanrosent...@gmail.com wrote: No. I don't understand why it's acceptable for a product to be sold with enough bugs. Paying for a bug-fix release (one that would riddled with at least some other issues) is not the answer. Imagine if you bought a widescreen tv, only to find that certain features worked only some of the time and some not at all, to compound this, your cable service also presented programming issues and challenges. Or your car. Features as prominent as a gauge. Or even a major program like Mathematica, which is at least equally sophisticated in context to Finale. Or an Adobe product. Think about what it would mean to the market and to advances and innovations. We are stuck with a great application that is unfortunately far from perfect and for some reason the company does not have high enough standards to perfect their product the way the other products I've mentioned perfect them. Comments? Dean -- Dean Rosenthal www.deanrosenthal.org ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
Yes, 2014 definitely has improvements. But it made a huge step BACKWARD in HP. On all prior releases, I never had to fiddle with HP. I simply turned it on and the music sounded better - much better. I understand that there are additional tweaks that people do to improve on the out of the box results with HP, but in all cases in the past, turning HP on was always better than having it off. That is simply not true with 2014. I have to do all sorts of fiddling to get HP to even play all the notes -- and even then some notes are not sounded. After my fiddling, HP mostly sounds better that going without HP, but it still messes up some things -- especially the interpretation of staccatos. I have had to resort to 3 kinds of staccatos to fake HP into having the right length in all cases. Without such a work-around, it makes some of the staccatos full value and others barely audible. This seems mostly random, and I cannot come up with any articulation definition has good staccato interpretation for all passages. I never had to do any of that before. It is broken and MakeMusic will not acknowledge it. I raised this question, not to complain about the status (which I think we all agree is way too buggy), and not to hear the reasons why I shouldn't be using 2014. What I am looking for is any insights anybody might have about the likelihood of this product ever getting some commercial level of maintenance. Basically the question is this. Are we now at Finale's end of life for practical purposes, take it or leave it? Or should we expect this company will produce something better at some stage? On 10/13/2014 11:45 AM, Robert Patterson wrote: In the last couple of months I migrated to Fin14, and I have to say that, despite the relative instability compared with Fin12 I am hooked. I love the Keyless score feature and the changes to how smart shapes are assigned. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
OK, Eric. When can I buy the new version that corrects some of the old bugs? Money is not the issue for me. The amount of my valuable time this product wastes is the issue. On 10/13/2014 1:35 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: And Adobe also does what people are accusing MakeMusic of.moving on and fixing issues (or working around them) in newer versions. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
On Mon, October 13, 2014 1:47 pm, Craig Parmerlee wrote: Are we now at Finale's end of life for practical purposes, take it or leave it? Or should we expect this company will produce something better at some stage? I'm going with end of life. After the year's hiatus, I expected a really powerful rewrite in key areas. Instead, the program made easy things harder and hard things even harder. If this is how they're developing, I see no real improvement in the future. I am SO tired of workarounds. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
UmI'm supposed to know this? Probably when the next version of Finale comes around? On Oct 13, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Craig Parmerlee cr...@parmerlee.com wrote: OK, Eric. When can I buy the new version that corrects some of the old bugs? Money is not the issue for me. The amount of my valuable time this product wastes is the issue. On 10/13/2014 1:35 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: And Adobe also does what people are accusing MakeMusic of.moving on and fixing issues (or working around them) in newer versions. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] Anybody think we will ever see any more fixes for F2014?
The point is that many of us would be OK paying for a new release if that is what it took to get bug fixes. The point is that Makemusic does neither new releases nor bug fixes. As far as I can tell, they just let the thing sit. Looking at Adobe's support site, I agree they are somewhat limited in their patches. For example, Photoshop 13 had 5 patch cycles in 2 years then there was a new release in June of this year. There have been a couple of functioning patch sets for Finale 2014, but IIRC, the last one only had a small handful of bug fixes. Other products I use (e.g. SONAR or Band-in-a-box) release patch sets that fix hundreds of issues. But mainly it is a question if Makemusic is even in the maintenance business, let alone enhancement business anymore. I just thought somebody might have some insights about that, but I guess not. On 10/13/2014 2:03 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: UmI'm supposed to know this? Probably when the next version of Finale comes around? On Oct 13, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Craig Parmerlee cr...@parmerlee.com wrote: OK, Eric. When can I buy the new version that corrects some of the old bugs? Money is not the issue for me. The amount of my valuable time this product wastes is the issue. On 10/13/2014 1:35 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: And Adobe also does what people are accusing MakeMusic of.moving on and fixing issues (or working around them) in newer versions. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
[Finale] News update on MakeMusic move to Boulder
See http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2014/10/03/makemusic-hq-move-eliminate-120-minnesota-jobs.html The company, which develops software for teaching and composing music, offered transfers to more than half of its workers and several dozen have agreed to move, Fisher said. Because some employees are still considering the offer, he couldn't say how many will relocate when the time to move comes early next year. So in rough numbers, there were 120 employees. They offered transfers to about 60. About 30 or 1/4 of the company is going to stay on board. Considering this encompasses Smartmusic and Garritan, and Smartmusic is more in line with the mission of Peaksware, my guess is that we'd be lucky if 15 experienced Finale people remain with the company -- and that would have to include coverage for Printmusic and Songwriter. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
Re: [Finale] News update on MakeMusic move to Boulder
Though to do smartmusic you need to have finale so. Programmers are a dime a dozen. As long as they retain the architects of the program's it should be fine. I have less worries about finale and makemusic than I do with avid and Sibelius Sent from my iSomething -- On Oct 13, 2014, at 10:26 PM, Craig Parmerlee cr...@parmerlee.com wrote: See http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2014/10/03/makemusic-hq-move-eliminate-120-minnesota-jobs.html The company, which develops software for teaching and composing music, offered transfers to more than half of its workers and several dozen have agreed to move, Fisher said. Because some employees are still considering the offer, he couldn't say how many will relocate when the time to move comes early next year. So in rough numbers, there were 120 employees. They offered transfers to about 60. About 30 or 1/4 of the company is going to stay on board. Considering this encompasses Smartmusic and Garritan, and Smartmusic is more in line with the mission of Peaksware, my guess is that we'd be lucky if 15 experienced Finale people remain with the company -- and that would have to include coverage for Printmusic and Songwriter. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale To unsubscribe from finale send a message to: finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
