Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[Michael Edwards]

[Raymond Horton:]

>"when I finally got to creating the expression and
>putting it into a score, it just kept trying to put a slur line 
> instead."
>
>Very sorry, but I lost track of who posted this.

  That's okay; it was I.


>Windows Finale 25, I often
>find the program will not put the expression or smart shape that I 
> want,
>and will insist on putting only one. I have to exit Finale and start 
> it
>again, or occasionally have to reboot. This has happened quite 
> frequently,
>actually.

  Okay; thanks for that, Raymond.  I'll try that and see if it 
helps.  I was quite dumb-founded when I discovered how incredibly 
difficult it is to put in such a simple thing as a pedal marking, and 
wondered if I was missing something, or doing it the wrong way.

Michael Edwards.


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Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[Raymond Horton]

"when I finally got to creating the expression and
putting it into a score, it just kept trying to put a slur line instead."

Very sorry, but I lost track of who posted this. Windows Finale 25, I often
find the program will not put the expression or smart shape that I want,
and will insist on putting only one. I have to exit Finale and start it
again, or occasionally have to reboot. This has happened quite frequently,
actually.

On Aug 18, 2017 9:23 PM, "Michael Edwards"  wrote:

> [David H. Bailey:]
>
> >There isn't a downloadable manual for recent versions of Finale.
>
>   I was afraid that might be the case.  Anyway, thanks for the
> suggestions, those who offered some.  I will keep them in mind.
>
>
> >The best I know of would be to purchase the book "Finale 2014
> > Trailblazer."
>
>   Yes, I'll look for that - hope it's available in Australia.  I
> might have to order it, since I expect it's specialized enough that I'll
> never find it just happening to be in stock in a bookshop.
>
>
> >Of course downloading that manual for 2009 may provide a lot of
> >insight and you may find that not a lot has changed since then.  At
> >least the basics should be the same.
>
>   That's the manual I've been using, and it has been useful for
> quite a few things.  But I noticed that some utilities have changed from
> the menu mentioned in the 2009 manual into another  menu, which caused a
> bit of confusion until I found out where it was now located.
>   However, I spent at least half an hour trying to follow the advice
> in the manual on how to put pedal markings in piano music, and gave up
> without accomplishing this.  It explained (and it was an absurdly
> complicated procedure for a matter so basic to piano music), and I did
> what it said, but when I finally got to creating the expression and
> putting it into a score, it just kept trying to put a slur line instead.
>   And I find its coverage of Speedy Note Entry completely hopeless,
> too.  It seems to be spread bit by bit in this page and that, but I
> managed to glean a bit by putting bits together.  But I couldn't find a
> "main" section on Speedy Note Entry which explained it clearly.  So
> progress in understanding that has been excruciatingly slow, and I still
> don't feel sure I completely understand it, although I have accomplished
> a few things with it, at least.
>
>
> >MakeMusic assumes that users are always online and they have decided
> >in their not-so-infinite wisdom that it's easier for them to keep
> >their online content up-to-date.
>
>   I guess I can understand that, but it's not much help to people
> who for whatever reason are sometimes not on line.
>
>
> >While Finale is a great program there is much to dislike about
> >MakeMusic (and its corporate parent) as a business.  Which probably
> >explains why it has passed through so many different ownerships in the
> >past decade. Each new corporate owner knew they had a couple of great
> >products (Finale and SmartMusic) but none of them knew how to expand
> >their market share nor how to please their current user base by fixing
> >long-standing bugs.
>
>   This is odd - it seems to have happened to a few music notation
> programs that I know of.  Sibelius went through bad times when Avid took
> it over and sacked their programmers (who I heard went to Steinberg and
> developed Dorico), and users thought it was on the decline; and I recall
> the debacle that Igor Engraver became after it initially seemed the best
> of all, and that seemed to coincide with ownership changes too.  It
> doesn't seem entirely coincidental to me.
>
>
> >In addition it has been many versions since
> >anything significant was added to the program.
>
>   Is there much more that can be added, and needs to be (for some
> users)?  While I still know only a little, I can see that it is able to
> do just about everything I can think of, and quite a few things I'd
> never thought of.  I am left wondering how anyone can create such a
> complicated program with so many inter-dependent parts, and how it is
> able to create a score that looks decent at all.
>
>
> >But through it all the program itself remains very powerful and very
> > capable.
>
>   Years ago, I considered various programs, asked a lot of
> questions, and in the end couldn't decide and put it in the "too hard to
> decide" basket.  Life went on and music notation software faded from my
> mind rather; but recently I decided to take it up again, getting fed up
> with the difficulties of handwritten manuscripts (ranging from the
> impossibility of finding really satisfactory manuscript paper to
> terrible pain in my right hand if I write many pages, made worse by my
> perfectionistic tendencies about neatness of handwritten manuscripts
> which I can't seem to deal with despite at times trying to deliberately
> write just a bit less neatly).  Recently, I re-examined Sibelius and
> Finale (more 

Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[Michael Edwards]

[David H. Bailey:]

>There isn't a downloadable manual for recent versions of Finale.

  I was afraid that might be the case.  Anyway, thanks for the 
suggestions, those who offered some.  I will keep them in mind.


>The best I know of would be to purchase the book "Finale 2014 
> Trailblazer."

  Yes, I'll look for that - hope it's available in Australia.  I 
might have to order it, since I expect it's specialized enough that I'll 
never find it just happening to be in stock in a bookshop.


>Of course downloading that manual for 2009 may provide a lot of
>insight and you may find that not a lot has changed since then.  At
>least the basics should be the same.

  That's the manual I've been using, and it has been useful for 
quite a few things.  But I noticed that some utilities have changed from 
the menu mentioned in the 2009 manual into another  menu, which caused a 
bit of confusion until I found out where it was now located.
  However, I spent at least half an hour trying to follow the advice 
in the manual on how to put pedal markings in piano music, and gave up 
without accomplishing this.  It explained (and it was an absurdly 
complicated procedure for a matter so basic to piano music), and I did 
what it said, but when I finally got to creating the expression and 
putting it into a score, it just kept trying to put a slur line instead.
  And I find its coverage of Speedy Note Entry completely hopeless, 
too.  It seems to be spread bit by bit in this page and that, but I 
managed to glean a bit by putting bits together.  But I couldn't find a 
"main" section on Speedy Note Entry which explained it clearly.  So 
progress in understanding that has been excruciatingly slow, and I still 
don't feel sure I completely understand it, although I have accomplished 
a few things with it, at least.


>MakeMusic assumes that users are always online and they have decided
>in their not-so-infinite wisdom that it's easier for them to keep
>their online content up-to-date.

  I guess I can understand that, but it's not much help to people 
who for whatever reason are sometimes not on line.


>While Finale is a great program there is much to dislike about
>MakeMusic (and its corporate parent) as a business.  Which probably
>explains why it has passed through so many different ownerships in the
>past decade. Each new corporate owner knew they had a couple of great
>products (Finale and SmartMusic) but none of them knew how to expand
>their market share nor how to please their current user base by fixing
>long-standing bugs.

  This is odd - it seems to have happened to a few music notation 
programs that I know of.  Sibelius went through bad times when Avid took 
it over and sacked their programmers (who I heard went to Steinberg and 
developed Dorico), and users thought it was on the decline; and I recall 
the debacle that Igor Engraver became after it initially seemed the best 
of all, and that seemed to coincide with ownership changes too.  It 
doesn't seem entirely coincidental to me.


>In addition it has been many versions since
>anything significant was added to the program.

  Is there much more that can be added, and needs to be (for some 
users)?  While I still know only a little, I can see that it is able to 
do just about everything I can think of, and quite a few things I'd 
never thought of.  I am left wondering how anyone can create such a 
complicated program with so many inter-dependent parts, and how it is 
able to create a score that looks decent at all.


>But through it all the program itself remains very powerful and very 
> capable.

  Years ago, I considered various programs, asked a lot of 
questions, and in the end couldn't decide and put it in the "too hard to 
decide" basket.  Life went on and music notation software faded from my 
mind rather; but recently I decided to take it up again, getting fed up 
with the difficulties of handwritten manuscripts (ranging from the 
impossibility of finding really satisfactory manuscript paper to 
terrible pain in my right hand if I write many pages, made worse by my 
perfectionistic tendencies about neatness of handwritten manuscripts 
which I can't seem to deal with despite at times trying to deliberately 
write just a bit less neatly).  Recently, I re-examined Sibelius and 
Finale (more briefly), and finally decided upon Finale, based on the 
impression I got that it could do lots and lots of things.  (My needs 
are probably 95 per cent orthodox, but I do occasionally want to do 
unusual things like simultaneous different key or time signatures or 
triple-sharps or a few other odd things - but mostly fairly standard 
notation.  But I am very fussy about wanting things to be just so.)
  I only recently learned about Dorico, which I gather is well 
thought of; but this was literally later the same day I bought Finale, 
so I guess I'll probably let that go unless I later hear seriously good 
things about it.  

Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[David H. Bailey]

On 8/17/2017 8:02 AM, SN jef chippewa wrote:
> 
>> MakeMusic assumes that users are always online and they have decided
>> in their not-so-infinite wisdom that it's easier for them to keep
>> their online content up-to-date.
> 
> i can't speak about why they did this but it is in fact a more
> logical approach, if managed properly.  making corrections and
> updates online means they are immediately available to users, which
> is not the case with print manuals.  again, i am talking about "the
> practice", not MM's practices.
> 
> in an ideal world, if the structure of the document is simple (it
> isn't), a harddisk version could be made available to users (a
> different format than online -- implying work/costs) with the option
> to prefer to access the online version when possible.  the user could
> set the programme to auto/manually update as needed so that their
> workflow is not affected when the only online access they have is
> through their mother-in-law's dial-up modem :-)
> 

It would be nice if they would periodically turn that online help into a 
PDF file which could be downloaded.   Or have their online manual as an 
old-fashioned web-page with sub-folders for additional content 
referenced from the index.html page -- that way users could simply use 
the "save as web-page complete" function of their browser and download 
all that material to their local hard-drive for use while off-line.  But 
the current incarnation of the on-line user manual has a lot of 
java-script nonsense running through it making it impossible to download 
the whole thing without going to and saving every single page which 
would be a nightmare.

So the next best thing is to get the 2009 user manual and buy the Finale 
2014: Trailblazer printed book and work from there.

-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[Raymond Horton]

I am not going to address the online, not online issue. But the problem I
have with the documentation is that a search turns up way too much, is not
specific enough.

On Aug 17, 2017 8:03 AM, "SN jef chippewa" 
wrote:

>
> >MakeMusic assumes that users are always online and they have decided
> >in their not-so-infinite wisdom that it's easier for them to keep
> >their online content up-to-date.
>
> i can't speak about why they did this but it is in fact a more
> logical approach, if managed properly.  making corrections and
> updates online means they are immediately available to users, which
> is not the case with print manuals.  again, i am talking about "the
> practice", not MM's practices.
>
> in an ideal world, if the structure of the document is simple (it
> isn't), a harddisk version could be made available to users (a
> different format than online -- implying work/costs) with the option
> to prefer to access the online version when possible.  the user could
> set the programme to auto/manually update as needed so that their
> workflow is not affected when the only online access they have is
> through their mother-in-law's dial-up modem :-)
>
> --
>
> neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
> http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html
>
> shirling & neueweise  |  http://newmusicnotation.com
> new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
> [FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise
>
> ___
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> Finale@shsu.edu
> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
>
> To unsubscribe from finale send a message to:
> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
>
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[Finale] Downloadable current manual

[Michael Johnson]

Hi Michael:

a Downloadable manual is available here for version 25 through 2009
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115010572707-User-Manuals-Finale-v25-Finale-2009

The v25 manual was posted a few months ago based on user requess. Perhaps
your info was out of date. It certainly wasn't posted with the initial
release

​Cheers,
Michael Johnson​
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Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual

[Michael Johnson]

I jumped the gun.
This is the KBA with the instructions on downloading the manual.
Guess, I need to drink a little more coffee before my early morning replies

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/22288-Finding-Finale-s-user-manual-and-other-help-resources-Version-25-

Michael

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Michael Johnson 
wrote:

> Hi Michael:
>
> a Downloadable manual is available here for version 25 through 2009
> https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115010572707-User-Manuals-
> Finale-v25-Finale-2009
>
> The v25 manual was posted a few months ago based on user requess. Perhaps
> your info was out of date. It certainly wasn't posted with the initial
> release
>
> ​Cheers,
> Michael Johnson​
>
>


-- 

*Michael Johnson*

VP, Professional Notation


*M *612 • 558 • 6056

www.makemusic.com
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Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[SN jef chippewa]

>MakeMusic assumes that users are always online and they have decided 
>in their not-so-infinite wisdom that it's easier for them to keep 
>their online content up-to-date.

i can't speak about why they did this but it is in fact a more 
logical approach, if managed properly.  making corrections and 
updates online means they are immediately available to users, which 
is not the case with print manuals.  again, i am talking about "the 
practice", not MM's practices.

in an ideal world, if the structure of the document is simple (it 
isn't), a harddisk version could be made available to users (a 
different format than online -- implying work/costs) with the option 
to prefer to access the online version when possible.  the user could 
set the programme to auto/manually update as needed so that their 
workflow is not affected when the only online access they have is 
through their mother-in-law's dial-up modem :-)

-- 

neueweise -- fonts for new music (and traditional) notation
http://newmusicnotation.com/fonts.html

shirling & neueweise  |  http://newmusicnotation.com
new music notation  +  arts management  +  translation
[FB] http://facebook.com/neueweise  |  [TW] http://twitter.com/neueweise

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Re: [Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[David H. Bailey]

There isn't a downloadable manual for recent versions of Finale.

The best I know of would be to purchase the book "Finale 2014 Trailblazer."

Of course downloading that manual for 2009 may provide a lot of insight 
and you may find that not a lot has changed since then.  At least the 
basics should be the same.

MakeMusic assumes that users are always online and they have decided in 
their not-so-infinite wisdom that it's easier for them to keep their 
online content up-to-date.

While Finale is a great program there is much to dislike about MakeMusic 
(and its corporate parent) as a business.  Which probably explains why 
it has passed through so many different ownerships in the past decade. 
Each new corporate owner knew they had a couple of great products 
(Finale and SmartMusic) but none of them knew how to expand their market 
share nor how to please their current user base by fixing long-standing 
bugs.  In addition it has been many versions since anything significant 
was added to the program.  And tech support remains an indecipherable 
mess where the first response always seems to be something like "We 
can't replicate the problem on our end.  Can you provide more specific 
instructions?"  Whereupon you simply resend your initial request for 
help because you spelled out the specific instructions to replicate the 
problem.

But through it all the program itself remains very powerful and very 
capable.

Good luck,
David H. Bailey


On 8/17/2017 4:38 AM, Michael Edwards wrote:
> Hallo.
> 
>Following links I was given when I joined here a week or two ago,
> I tried to find a downloadable manual, because I am not on line a lot of
> the time when I use Finale; but so far I have found a manual only from
> 2009, and, while a lot of what it says is applicable to the current
> version, some things appear not to be.
>Perhaps I got the links I was given mixed up, but I still haven't
> found a current downloadable manual yet.  Is there one? - or do
> MakeMusic assume users are always on line?
>If anyone can please point me to it, I would be grateful.  (And if
> someone has already point to this, I apologize - it will mean I have got
> my information mixed up somehow.)
>Thank you.
> 
> Michael Edwards.
> 
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
> 
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> finale-unsubscr...@shsu.edu
> 
> 


-- 
*
David H. Bailey
dhbaile...@comcast.net
http://www.davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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[Finale] Downloadable current manual.

[Michael Edwards]

Hallo.

  Following links I was given when I joined here a week or two ago, 
I tried to find a downloadable manual, because I am not on line a lot of 
the time when I use Finale; but so far I have found a manual only from 
2009, and, while a lot of what it says is applicable to the current 
version, some things appear not to be.
  Perhaps I got the links I was given mixed up, but I still haven't 
found a current downloadable manual yet.  Is there one? - or do 
MakeMusic assume users are always on line?
  If anyone can please point me to it, I would be grateful.  (And if 
someone has already point to this, I apologize - it will mean I have got 
my information mixed up somehow.)
  Thank you.

Michael Edwards.


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