Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[David W. Fenton]

On 8 Oct 2011 at 3:46, SN jef chippewa wrote:

> >How often will I need to make a circle score? Probably never, but now
> >I know how to do it!
> 
> yeah great.  how often do i need linked parts to work right?  always,
> but i will probably never be able to really have it work right because
> of the insufficient implementation of this otherwise fantastic feature
> and complete disinterest in solid software design by make music.

Well, to be fair, so far as I can tell, MM didn't actually do 
anything new to make the circular score possible, as it's done with 
capabilities that have existed in Finale for over a decade (if not 
longer). So it doesn't seem to me that any resources were diverted 
from more important projects (except, perhaps, in the marketing 
department).

Some things are easy to fix. Those get fixed quickly. Some things are 
hard, and thus take much longer to get fixed. It often has little to 
do with the relative importance of the features involved and 
everything to do with how easy it is to address the problem.

-- 
David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com
David Fenton Associates   http://dfenton.com/DFA/

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre]

Those were string harmonics?

Some time ago I entered the flute and bass lines for  a sonata by Francesco 
Mancini (not Henry’s father, as this is music from baroque London) into FM2011. 
Playback drove me insane as there were occasional 3 and 4 part chords. From my 
years as a recorder teacher I knew that difference notes could occur in 
two-part playing, and especially when between sopraninos these difference notes 
would rattle my eardrums in an unpleasant way. So I thought there were 
difference notes coming out of my speaker cones.


My plan was and is to make a 4 part version of this sonata for flute and 
recorder quartets, possibly also for other winds or brasses. I opened my raw 
sketch in FM2012, and the playback of the solo line was immensely much better, 
whereas the bass line was muddy when harp was chosen. No harmonic/chords, thank 
you! I started the flute version by transposing the bass line up an octave and 
set flute as instrument. Not good, as there is no playback below B natural just 
below middle C. Garritan apparently has no options for bass flute and not even 
for alto flute. My solution was to use SmartMusic set to recorder for that 
part. The combination gives good clarity so far.

And then I had problems reordering my staves, until I tried to drag them in the 
score manager. Very easy.

Klaus


>
>From: Jari Williamsson 
>
>
>Now you could claim that it's a "bug" if a plug-in puts string harmonics 
>in a flute part, for example.
>
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Jari Williamsson]

On 2011-10-08 06:24, Chuck Israels wrote:

> Definitely helpful for more useful playback of
> saxophone/ww parts in my scores.  It should make it
> easy to switch to ww doubles and back - something I
> never took the trouble to do in the old system (too
> complicated for my brain - easier to imagine the
> correct sound).  Maybe it will be easier to change
> instruments (cup mute trumpet/open trumpet) rather
> than to rely on keyswitches - also something I could
> not get to work properly, although I know HP would do this.

And the instrument concept goes deeper than just make it easier to 
change an instrument mid-score, since Finale will now actually KNOW what 
instrument it is.

Now you could claim that it's a "bug" if a plug-in puts string harmonics 
in a flute part, for example.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Chuck Israels]

On Oct 7, 2011, at 8:03 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
> 
> 
>> Score Managerkind of useful...maybe.
> 
> It's definitely helpful for anyone who needs playback on a file where players 
> play multiple instruments. It means you don't have to mess around with 
> keyswitches or channel change expressions, both of which had serious 
> disadvantages.

Definitely helpful for more useful playback of saxophone/ww parts in my scores. 
 It should make it easy to switch to ww doubles and back - something I never 
took the trouble to do in the old system (too complicated for my brain - easier 
to imagine the correct sound).  Maybe it will be easier to change instruments 
(cup mute trumpet/open trumpet) rather than to rely on keyswitches - also 
something I could not get to work properly, although I know HP would do this.

Probably worth it for me.

Chuck



Chuck Israels
1310 NW Naito Parkway #807
Portland, OR 97209-316

land line: (971) 255-1167
cell phone: (360) 201-3434




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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Darcy James Argue]

On 7 Oct 2011, at 10:54 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

> Wouldn't it be cool if they perhaps redid the playback system so if you have 
> the expression "solo" it will automatically bring up the volume of the 
> instrument and bring down the others?

Human playback already does this -- and has done this since HP was introduced.

> Import PDF graphics? Why?

Because PDF is a standard graphics format that Finale should support.

> Score Managerkind of useful...maybe.

It's definitely helpful for anyone who needs playback on a file where players 
play multiple instruments. It means you don't have to mess around with 
keyswitches or channel change expressions, both of which had serious 
disadvantages.

Cheers,

- DJA
-
WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Eric Dannewitz]

 Yeah, but, but, you get SmartMusic integration as well! 

Wouldn't it be cool if they perhaps redid the playback system so if you have 
the expression "solo" it will automatically bring up the volume of the 
instrument and bring down the others? Or maybe actually listen to some of the 
users, say, on this list, who have given ample suggestions on what needs to be 
fixed or could be better?

So, lets see, improvements:
Finale AlphaNotes.probably should have been in a 2011 update. 
Import PDF graphics? Why?
Improved setup wizard. Meh.
More fontsI haven't ever used any of the fonts from the last 
update.what was it calledbroadway? 
Worksheets? Really? Why not just make that a separate add-on purchase? Or a 
subscription? I've never used that. Ever. 
Playback Portability.probably is half baked like most other Finale 
features. I don't see how that is going to help me. 
Improved Midi Steup. Finally! Now that I am interested in..since that 
aspect of Finale has sucked for so long.I don't think MakeMusic has changed 
anything there in 10 years or so.
Unicode.ok. Might be useful.
Score Managerkind of useful...maybe.

Things that are "improved" really should have been in 2011 updates. But then 
again this is the company that, for one of it's updates to Finale, lauded that 
it could put the copyright symbol in for you. Yep. That was one of the 
"features" in Finale 2006 if I remember correctly. 

-- 
Eric Dannewitz
Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
http://www.ericdannewitz.com/


On Friday, October 7, 2011 at 6:46 PM, SN jef chippewa wrote:

> 
> > How often will I need to make a circle score? Probably never, but 
> > now I know how to do it!
> 
> yeah great. how often do i need linked parts to work right? always, 
> but i will probably never be able to really have it work right 
> because of the insufficient implementation of this otherwise 
> fantastic feature and complete disinterest in solid software design 
> by make music.
> 
> i mean i can use my macbook pro to squash mosquitoes but i don't. 
> maybe i can use those old finale manuals... or even better my finale 
> water bottle, yeah that is the right tool for the job.
> 
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[SN jef chippewa]

>How often will I need to make a circle score? Probably never, but 
>now I know how to do it!

yeah great.  how often do i need linked parts to work right?  always, 
but i will probably never be able to really have it work right 
because of the insufficient implementation of this otherwise 
fantastic feature and complete disinterest in solid software design 
by make music.

i mean i can use my macbook pro to squash mosquitoes but i don't. 
maybe i can use those old finale manuals... or even better my finale 
water bottle, yeah that is the right tool for the job.

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Phillips, Justin]

   Playback was probably the easiest part. It's just "normal" staves that are
   hidden.

   The nice thing is if you wish to attempt this, just save the Expression and
   SmartShape as a library (File menu > Save Library) which you can bring into
   any document then. Most standard markings are already created and you can
   play around with it some.

   How often will I need to make a circle score? Probably never, but now I know
   how to do it!
   Justin Phillips
   Notation Product Specialist
   MakeMusic, Inc
   On Oct 7, 2011, at 6:28 PM, David H. Bailey wrote:

   On 10/7/2011 8:20 AM, Phillips, Justin wrote:

Yes, that was all created in Finale 2012 (no graphic imports) and it's
 quite

clever (IMHO). It's included as one of the Repertoire files with 2012
 at

File menu>  Open Work Sheets and Repertoire>  Repertoire>  Classical>

Vocal>  Billings Connection if you want to deconstruct the file and try
 it

on your own.

   Okay, I've discovered a bit more -- the circular staves are an
   expression.  How it was made is beyond me at this point but at least I
   know how the staves are placed.  I can see how it was created within
   Finale, using the graphics tool part of the expression creation tool.
   The notes are all custom smart shapes, I've figured that out.  The words
   are, also, which is why the notes and words can all be rotated.
   Very clever as you say.
   How did you achieve playback?
   --
   David H. Bailey
   [1]dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com

References

   1. mailto:dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[SN jef chippewa]

jesus christ, some people have time on their hands.

i would never bother even opening finale to consider trying to do 
that, would go straight to a graphics programme where you can be 
assured of proper spacing and can change the size and angle of 
objects with great control.

very clever but the final barlines don't line up :-) and the text 
baselines are not round, whcih could be achieved in a graphic 
programme.

i think this could have been done in any version since custom smart 
shapes, the only "new" thing that couldn't be done before is the "fi" 
ligature in the centre text (which has massive spacing probs that can 
only clunkily [and partially] be resolved in finale).

so... how 'bout them linked parts?

>How did you achieve playback?

spin it on a turntable and drop the needle, yeah baby.

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Fri, October 7, 2011 7:28 pm, David H. Bailey wrote:
> Okay, I've discovered a bit more -- the circular staves are an
> expression.  How it was made is beyond me at this point but at least I
> know how the staves are placed.  I can see how it was created within
> Finale, using the graphics tool part of the expression creation tool.

Pretty much the same way I did this four years ago:

  

So bendy staves are still in the graphics realm. Was all nasty trying to
render a Christian Wolff score a few years ago.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[David H. Bailey]

On 10/7/2011 8:20 AM, Phillips, Justin wrote:
>
> Yes, that was all created in Finale 2012 (no graphic imports) and it's 
> quite
> clever (IMHO). It's included as one of the Repertoire files with 2012 at
> File menu>  Open Work Sheets and Repertoire>  Repertoire>  Classical>
> Vocal>  Billings Connection if you want to deconstruct the file and try it
> on your own.
>

Okay, I've discovered a bit more -- the circular staves are an 
expression.  How it was made is beyond me at this point but at least I 
know how the staves are placed.  I can see how it was created within 
Finale, using the graphics tool part of the expression creation tool.

The notes are all custom smart shapes, I've figured that out.  The words 
are, also, which is why the notes and words can all be rotated.

Very clever as you say.

How did you achieve playback?

-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[David H. Bailey]

Okay, I'll bite -- how was it done?  It's certainly not simply entering 
the music on straight staves and then grabbing the staves and bending 
them.  I went through the whole score in Speedy Entry and there weren't 
any notes showing in any of the frames.

So if no notes are showing up in speedy frames as I move from the first 
frame through what appears to be the last frame, how are the notes entered?

Thanks for any insights -- I'm sure Dennis will be very appreciative to 
learn the techniques as well.  I'm particularly interested in how 
playback is achieved with no notes showing in either the speedy frame 
nor when I go into the Simple Entry tool.

Thanks,
David


On 10/7/2011 8:20 AM, Phillips, Justin wrote:
>
> Yes, that was all created in Finale 2012 (no graphic imports) and it's 
> quite
> clever (IMHO). It's included as one of the Repertoire files with 2012 at
> File menu>  Open Work Sheets and Repertoire>  Repertoire>  Classical>
> Vocal>  Billings Connection if you want to deconstruct the file and try it
> on your own.
>
> Justin Phillips
> Notation Product Specialist
> MakeMusic, Inc
> On Oct 7, 2011, at 6:21 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:
>
> On 10/7/2011 6:29 AM, Colin Broom wrote:
>
>   [1]http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/New.aspx
>
> Thanks for that link -- did everybody see the circular score on the home
> page for Finale2012?  Is there any way to ask them how they accomplished
> that?  Was it really from within Finale2012?
> Now that it's officially released, can some of the beta testers come
> forward with their honest opinions about this upgrade?  It's pricier
> than in the past -- $119 for a download upgrade from Fin2011 and then an
> extra $10 plus shipping if you actually want the installation disks and
> the Getting Started guide.
> Thanks for any insights anybody can offer as to whether this new version
> is worth the price.
> --
> David H. Bailey
> [2]dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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>
> 1. http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/New.aspx
> 2. mailto:dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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>


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre]

Yes, I have bought, downloaded, installed, and authorized Finale 2012 on both 
of my Macs.

There was a problem checking out from the cart. I was asked to send MM a screen 
drop of the error message, whereafter they solved the problem.

I haven’t done any real work in 2012, but midi playback works and my midi 
controller/keyboard is recognized without needs to go via Device setup, which I 
had to in 2011.
Document options are kept, whereas you have to set your program preferences 
from scratch in 2012.

Looks like it opened with Simple entry as default tool, which is not of my 
liking. With that tool my scores end up with stray notes all over the place. I 
don‘t know how to use that tool (and never want to know), so I don’t know how 
to avoid it making damages, when it is open.


Klaus


>
>From: dc 
>To: finale@shsu.edu; finale@shsu.edu
>Sent: Friday, October 7, 2011 10:13 PM
>Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released
>
>David H. Bailey écrit:
>>Now that it's officially released, can some of the beta testers come
>>forward with their honest opinions about this upgrade?  It's pricier
>>than in the past -- $119 for a download upgrade from Fin2011 and then an
>>extra $10 plus shipping if you actually want the installation disks and
>>the Getting Started guide.
>
>Does anyone know if it's possible to download the upgrade from Europe?
>
>Dennis
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Phillips, Justin]

   Yes, anyone can purchase and download directly from us.

   Justin Phillips
   Notation Product Specialist
   MakeMusic, Inc
   On Oct 7, 2011, at 3:13 PM, dc wrote:

   David H. Bailey écrit:

 Now that it's officially released, can some of the beta testers come

 forward with their honest opinions about this upgrade?  It's pricier

 than in the past -- $119 for a download upgrade from Fin2011 and then an

 extra $10 plus shipping if you actually want the installation disks and

 the Getting Started guide.

   Does anyone know if it's possible to download the upgrade from Europe?
   Dennis
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Eric Dannewitz]

Which is code for it will be in finale 2013 as part of the "new features"

Ugh.I really don't see anything to make me want to upgrade. Again.

Sent from my iSomething
--
Eric Dannewitz
Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
http://www.ericdannewitz.com

On Oct 7, 2011, at 8:38 AM, "Phillips, Justin"  wrote:

>
>   Not as of yet, but that's something we can definitely look at.
>
>   Justin Phillips
>   Notation Product Specialist
>   MakeMusic, Inc
>   On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:
>
>   So no full screen os x lion mode?
>   Sent from my iSomething
>   --
>   Eric Dannewitz
>   Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
>   [1]http://www.ericdannewitz.com
>   On Oct 7, 2011, at 8:19 AM, Aaron Sherber  wrote:
>
> On 10/7/2011 11:14 AM, Colin Broom wrote:
>
> Are there screenshots anywhere on the website of the GUI? Is it
>
> essentially the same setup?
>
> Yes, the interface looks essentially the same as past versions.
>
> Aaron.
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Phillips, Justin]

   Not as of yet, but that's something we can definitely look at.

   Justin Phillips
   Notation Product Specialist
   MakeMusic, Inc
   On Oct 7, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote:

   So no full screen os x lion mode?
   Sent from my iSomething
   --
   Eric Dannewitz
   Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
   [1]http://www.ericdannewitz.com
   On Oct 7, 2011, at 8:19 AM, Aaron Sherber  wrote:

 On 10/7/2011 11:14 AM, Colin Broom wrote:

 Are there screenshots anywhere on the website of the GUI? Is it

 essentially the same setup?

 Yes, the interface looks essentially the same as past versions.

 Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Eric Dannewitz]

So no full screen os x lion mode?

Sent from my iSomething
--
Eric Dannewitz
Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius
http://www.ericdannewitz.com

On Oct 7, 2011, at 8:19 AM, Aaron Sherber  wrote:

> On 10/7/2011 11:14 AM, Colin Broom wrote:
>> Are there screenshots anywhere on the website of the GUI? Is it
>> essentially the same setup?
>
> Yes, the interface looks essentially the same as past versions.
>
> Aaron.
>
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Aaron Sherber]

On 10/7/2011 11:14 AM, Colin Broom wrote:
> Are there screenshots anywhere on the website of the GUI? Is it
> essentially the same setup?

Yes, the interface looks essentially the same as past versions.

Aaron.

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Colin Broom]

Are there screenshots anywhere on the website of the GUI? Is it essentially the 
same setup? I'm hoping they don't ever go down the "MSOffice" tabbed approach 
that Sibelius have adopted.

C.

--
Colin Broom


colin_br...@hotmail.com
--


> From: i...@nigelhanley.com
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 00:11:44 +1100
> To: finale@shsu.edu
> Subject: Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released
> 
> Horses for courses, I suppose. I love the new score manager. I suppose it's 
> worth the price of the upgrade. On the other hand, not being in the education 
> field, the improvements in SmartScore mean little to me. Similarly the extra 
> sounds in Garritan. I am a contemporary arranger, and Finale seems to be 
> catering to the classical musician.
> 
> I'm disappointed not to see an emulation of Sibelius' 'magnetic layout'. This 
> could be a deal breaker for me. While I am very happy with Finale 2011, it 
> was always in expectation of a similar feature. However, as I've used Finale 
> since 2.0 I am loathe to crossover.
> 
> The new score manager will keep me hanging around for another year. For $119, 
> I'd rather split the difference with Jari Williamsson and send him half for 
> his wonderful plugins
> 
> - Nigel Hanley
> Sydney, Australia
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Nigel Hanley]

Horses for courses, I suppose. I love the new score manager. I suppose it's 
worth the price of the upgrade. On the other hand, not being in the education 
field, the improvements in SmartScore mean little to me. Similarly the extra 
sounds in Garritan. I am a contemporary arranger, and Finale seems to be 
catering to the classical musician.

I'm disappointed not to see an emulation of Sibelius' 'magnetic layout'. This 
could be a deal breaker for me. While I am very happy with Finale 2011, it was 
always in expectation of a similar feature. However, as I've used Finale since 
2.0 I am loathe to crossover.

The new score manager will keep me hanging around for another year. For $119, 
I'd rather split the difference with Jari Williamsson and send him half for his 
wonderful plugins

- Nigel Hanley
Sydney, Australia
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Jari Williamsson]

On 2011-10-07 13:21, David H. Bailey wrote:

> Now that it's officially released, can some of the beta testers come
> forward with their honest opinions about this upgrade?

I'm going to post a thorough review on the tips site within 24 hours.


Best regards,

Jari Williamsson

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Nigel Hanley]

While you're here Justin. Was the Moravian orchestral example mixed entirely in 
Finale 2012? Or was it enhanced by a DAW?



On 07/10/2011, at 11:20 PM, Phillips, Justin wrote:

> 
>   Yes, that was all created in Finale 2012 (no graphic imports) and it's quite
>   clever (IMHO). It's included as one of the Repertoire files with 2012 at
>   File menu > Open Work Sheets and Repertoire  > Repertoire > Classical >
>   Vocal > Billings Connection if you want to deconstruct the file and try it
>   on your own.
> 
>   Justin Phillips
>   Notation Product Specialist
>   MakeMusic, Inc
>   On Oct 7, 2011, at 6:21 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:
> 
>   

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Phillips, Justin]

   Yes, that was all created in Finale 2012 (no graphic imports) and it's quite
   clever (IMHO). It's included as one of the Repertoire files with 2012 at
   File menu > Open Work Sheets and Repertoire  > Repertoire > Classical >
   Vocal > Billings Connection if you want to deconstruct the file and try it
   on your own.

   Justin Phillips
   Notation Product Specialist
   MakeMusic, Inc
   On Oct 7, 2011, at 6:21 AM, David H. Bailey wrote:

   On 10/7/2011 6:29 AM, Colin Broom wrote:

 [1]http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/New.aspx

   Thanks for that link -- did everybody see the circular score on the home
   page for Finale2012?  Is there any way to ask them how they accomplished
   that?  Was it really from within Finale2012?
   Now that it's officially released, can some of the beta testers come
   forward with their honest opinions about this upgrade?  It's pricier
   than in the past -- $119 for a download upgrade from Fin2011 and then an
   extra $10 plus shipping if you actually want the installation disks and
   the Getting Started guide.
   Thanks for any insights anybody can offer as to whether this new version
   is worth the price.
   --
   David H. Bailey
   [2]dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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References

   1. http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/New.aspx
   2. mailto:dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Christopher Smith]

UNICODE! Whee!

Also some playback improvements, a "score manager" (I don't get it entirely) 
for changing instruments, and some other things. Please, bug fixes, please!

Christopher


On Fri Oct 7, at FridayOct 7 6:29 AM, Colin Broom wrote:

> 
> http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/New.aspx
> 
> --
> Colin Broom

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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Dennis Bathory-Kitsz]

On Fri, October 7, 2011 7:21 am, David H. Bailey wrote:
> Thanks for that link -- did everybody see the circular score on the home
> page for Finale2012?  Is there any way to ask them how they accomplished
> that?  Was it really from within Finale2012?

If that finally means we can bend the staff, I am *there*.

Dennis


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Re: [Finale] Finale 2012 released

[David H. Bailey]

On 10/7/2011 6:29 AM, Colin Broom wrote:
>
> http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/New.aspx
>

Thanks for that link -- did everybody see the circular score on the home 
page for Finale2012?  Is there any way to ask them how they accomplished 
that?  Was it really from within Finale2012?

Now that it's officially released, can some of the beta testers come 
forward with their honest opinions about this upgrade?  It's pricier 
than in the past -- $119 for a download upgrade from Fin2011 and then an 
extra $10 plus shipping if you actually want the installation disks and 
the Getting Started guide.

Thanks for any insights anybody can offer as to whether this new version 
is worth the price.


-- 
David H. Bailey
dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com
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[Finale] Finale 2012 released

[Colin Broom]

http://www.finalemusic.com/Finale/New.aspx

--
Colin Broom

  
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