Re: [Finale] Question on chords
This is not so far from a written version of what you might shout out to give chords nor from figured bass..! Steve P. On 26 Dec 2012, at 06:12, Williams, Jim jwilli...@franklincollege.edu wrote: Sure...glad to help. I see some logic to it now--in D9(flat), the flat 9 is indeed flat--e flat. For E9(natural), the flat 9 is F natural. Still odd. ;-0 Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:03 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:54 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Yeah...interesting indeed. Never seen that before. You've described the chords correctly as 7(b9), so why not go with what the parts are saying? Jim Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the feedback. It's always useful to have a second opinion. cd On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:49 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
I'm late to the party, but Jim Williams seems to have it worked out correctly. I gather that in the young days of complex chord symbols, some arrangers were still mixing in elements of figured bass, where the notes in a chord took on the accidental from the KEY they were in, instead of calculated as a fixed interval above the bass note/root. I've taken note of these to show to my students, as there is no telling what you might come across in the Wild West of chord symbols. Monk and his peers are well-documented as calling a m5(b5) or half-diminished chord a minor chord with the sixth in the bass. While it seems odd to us, it DOES tend to encourage the player to use a certain chord scale. I would definitely edit these to modern (and consistent!) standards, in case you were still in doubt. Christopher On Wed Dec 26, at WednesdayDec 26 1:12 AM, Williams, Jim wrote: Sure...glad to help. I see some logic to it now--in D9(flat), the flat 9 is indeed flat--e flat. For E9(natural), the flat 9 is F natural. Still odd. ;-0 Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:03 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:54 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Yeah...interesting indeed. Never seen that before. You've described the chords correctly as 7(b9), so why not go with what the parts are saying? Jim Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the feedback. It's always useful to have a second opinion. cd On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:49 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
That thing of calling Gm7(b5) a Bbmi6 really misleads beginners because it hides the 2-5 in minor, and it still exists in a lot of print editions. Really can mess up a bass line! Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 9:09 AM, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: I'm late to the party, but Jim Williams seems to have it worked out correctly. I gather that in the young days of complex chord symbols, some arrangers were still mixing in elements of figured bass, where the notes in a chord took on the accidental from the KEY they were in, instead of calculated as a fixed interval above the bass note/root. I've taken note of these to show to my students, as there is no telling what you might come across in the Wild West of chord symbols. Monk and his peers are well-documented as calling a m5(b5) or half-diminished chord a minor chord with the sixth in the bass. While it seems odd to us, it DOES tend to encourage the player to use a certain chord scale. I would definitely edit these to modern (and consistent!) standards, in case you were still in doubt. Christopher On Wed Dec 26, at WednesdayDec 26 1:12 AM, Williams, Jim wrote: Sure...glad to help. I see some logic to it now--in D9(flat), the flat 9 is indeed flat--e flat. For E9(natural), the flat 9 is F natural. Still odd. ;-0 Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:03 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:54 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Yeah...interesting indeed. Never seen that before. You've described the chords correctly as 7(b9), so why not go with what the parts are saying? Jim Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the feedback. It's always useful to have a second opinion. cd On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:49 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
I was working last week putting an old bigband score into Finale. I had chords like: C7(-10, -5, -2). Fun. On 26 dec 2012, at 14:08, Christopher Smith christopher.sm...@videotron.ca wrote: I'm late to the party, but Jim Williams seems to have it worked out correctly. I gather that in the young days of complex chord symbols, some arrangers were still mixing in elements of figured bass, where the notes in a chord took on the accidental from the KEY they were in, instead of calculated as a fixed interval above the bass note/root. I've taken note of these to show to my students, as there is no telling what you might come across in the Wild West of chord symbols. Monk and his peers are well-documented as calling a m5(b5) or half-diminished chord a minor chord with the sixth in the bass. While it seems odd to us, it DOES tend to encourage the player to use a certain chord scale. I would definitely edit these to modern (and consistent!) standards, in case you were still in doubt. Christopher On Wed Dec 26, at WednesdayDec 26 1:12 AM, Williams, Jim wrote: Sure...glad to help. I see some logic to it now--in D9(flat), the flat 9 is indeed flat--e flat. For E9(natural), the flat 9 is F natural. Still odd. ;-0 Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:03 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:54 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Yeah...interesting indeed. Never seen that before. You've described the chords correctly as 7(b9), so why not go with what the parts are saying? Jim Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the feedback. It's always useful to have a second opinion. cd On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:49 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Question on chords
I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
On 12/25/2012 9:07 PM, Don Hart wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart The Marke Winsten arrangement of Artistry in Rhythm. Not a bad chart, but very old fashioned notation. cd On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
Yeah...interesting indeed. Never seen that before. You've described the chords correctly as 7(b9), so why not go with what the parts are saying? Jim Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:49 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
On 12/25/2012 9:54 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Yeah...interesting indeed. Never seen that before. You've described the chords correctly as 7(b9), so why not go with what the parts are saying? Jim Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the feedback. It's always useful to have a second opinion. cd On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:49 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Question on chords
Sure...glad to help. I see some logic to it now--in D9(flat), the flat 9 is indeed flat--e flat. For E9(natural), the flat 9 is F natural. Still odd. ;-0 Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. On Dec 26, 2012, at 1:03 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:54 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: Yeah...interesting indeed. Never seen that before. You've described the chords correctly as 7(b9), so why not go with what the parts are saying? Jim Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. Thanks, Jim. I appreciate the feedback. It's always useful to have a second opinion. cd On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:49 AM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: On 12/25/2012 9:09 PM, Williams, Jim wrote: What do the parts tell you? Sent from my iPhone, so please pardon all the typos. First one is a D9 - D, F#, A, C, Eb. D7(b9)? Second is an E9 - E, G#, B, D, F E7(b9)? Both have that b7, b9, but both have M3, so not minor 9 chords. Interesting notation, eh? On Dec 26, 2012, at 12:07 AM, Don Hart donhartmu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Carl - I've never seen that either. My first guess would be that the 7th is assumed and the parenthesized comments concern the ninth in each chord. Which chart/arranger? - Don Hart On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:42 PM, dershem ders...@cox.net wrote: I'm putting an old Kenton chart into Finale (always have a safety copy in case some bozo loses or destroys a part!) and have found some chord markings that are new to me. Measure 1 is D9(flat) Measure 6 is E9(natural) This might be how it was done back in the day, but .. how would these be marked now? Is it D9(b???) D7(b9)??? Ummm... new to me. Any relevant thoughts would be appreciated. Carl -- http://projectselene.com -- http://projectselene.com === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.18500) http://www.pctools.com/ === ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
