RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
In the Australian Army Band circles Sibelius is, I understand, the primary system- but Finale is available. Most schools I know of here in Canberra use Sibelius- I am regularly told it is more user friendly. Anyone who learns at school or in the Army is almost certainly going to stay with that product. If it works, and it's what you know, why change? It would seem that here in OZ at least, Finale have missed the marketing boat! Cheers K in OZ Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0439-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Colin Broom Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2005 11:08 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list? Hooray! Sparks flying on the Finale list! :) To be honest, I never fail to be somewhat amused at the fact that complaints about non-Finale-related thread inevitably result in threads even longer than the ones complained about. I too am very much in the if you don't like it, you don't have to read it camp. I personally have been really interested in the New Sibelius/New Finale chat, as someone who as a minority of one in a community of Glasgow-based composers around my age all using Sibelius, still uses Finale. Furthermore, I teach Sibelius in a couple of contexts. In reference to some of the education chat earlier, as far as the UK goes, in schools, in universities and in conservatoires, Finale have entirely lost the battle as far as I can see, and will probably never be able to regain any significant ground, unless Sibelius make a series of real foul-ups with their product. Not a single school I am aware of uses Finale, and I can't think of many universities using it either. I find this fact tragic, because in so many ways, I strongly feel that for all its annoyances, Finale is the better application. The university at which I used to work used Finale because I recommended it for the course I was going to teach, but since I left 2 years ago, I can only surmise that it has fallen into disuse (stupid, I know). In this environment, what real incentive is there to use a minority product? What sense does it make for a student to begin using a different application from their peers and often even their supervisors/tutors? Like everyone here, I don't know what's going to happen with Finale over the next few years, but I really, really don't want to switch to Sibelius for my own work. As much as anything else, I hate the thought of those smug [EMAIL PROTECTED] at Sibelius saying we told you it was better. I'd be interested in hearing more about Finale in education elsewhere. I've always had this (probably largely unfounded) idea that Finale is for the most part still the prominent product in the States, is this true? Colin. _ Be the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! http://www.msn.co.uk/newsletters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.14/48 - Release Date: 13/07/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.14/48 - Release Date: 13/07/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Sibelius discussion was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about allegedly off-topic discussions? Who died and made you thread cop? dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: People, the way to change the conversation on an e-mail list isn't to complain about it -- ASK A QUESTION! Considering the large number of posts on apparently a Sibelius question (there was no reference to Finale comparisons in the subject) and not being a Sibelius user, I ignored the initial posts, since I do not have the time to spend reading everything that comes through. I only read what is relevant to my work. Does that make me a 'lurker'? How many of you actually read everything? I do not consider myself an expert user of Finale (and I am still using 2002 since there have been no useful updates to the product - in my opinion) so I usually only participate in discussions of a musical rather than technical nature. Does that make me a 'lurker'? I was quite happy to accept the opinion that the Sibelius discussion was indeed relevant, but others have made a mountain out of a mole hill. As far as 'changing the discussion by asking a question' is concerned, I do not want to add even more volume, making it more likely that useful discussions will be missed. I am more concerned with reducing the volume of mail coming in. A simple, 'It's relevant!' would have sufficed. No doubt I shall now go back to lurking, until I can think of some other way of generating even more junk than my simple (?) question. Regards, Best Wishes and I do not intend this as an insult to anyone! Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Colin Broom wrote: [snip] I'd be interested in hearing more about Finale in education elsewhere. I've always had this (probably largely unfounded) idea that Finale is for the most part still the prominent product in the States, is this true? The brand new high school plus the rebuilt older high school (so we now have two complete 4-year high schools) both have Sibelius on the music computers at school. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Cool down, Man! I have as much right to voice my opinion as any other member of the list. I have been very active in other forums for the past several years, taking part in discussions and helping novices with their problems. Just because I'm new to this list serve does not classify me as a lurker. But whether I have a long and honorable record as an active Finale supporter still does not give you the right to judge me. And what's the thread cop nonsense you're spouting? That's nonsense. If I want to read about Sibelius there are lots of places I can go to find out about the latest and greatest of that product. But this list is labeled Finale, not Finale and any other competing product people care to promote. Ronald J Brown -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 12, 2005 6:21 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list? On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote: I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a Finale site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it taken over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius users like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested in reading them either. Then don't. Seriously, what is the point of this thread? The Sibelius discussion was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate. If that's not an appropriate topic for discussion, then what is? And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about allegedly off-topic discussions? Who died and made you thread cop? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Ronald, As someone who is new to this list, did it ever occur to you that maybe you shouldn't begin your involvement with this list by lecturing everyone else on how it ought to be run? This is not a moderated list, and people are free to discuss whatever they deem appropriate. And LOTS of list members thought it was appropriate to talk about the new features introduced in the latest version of Sibelius, how it compares to Fin2k6, and how that might impact Finale. If you didn't want to read those threads, you were under no obligation to follow them. If you want a moderated list where the word Sibelius is banned, fine, go start your own. But don't just barge in here and tell all of us how to run our community. That's pretty goddamned rude, and I very much doubt you would do anything remotely like that in real life. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 13 Jul 2005, at 8:10 AM, ronan wrote: Cool down, Man! I have as much right to voice my opinion as any other member of the list. I have been very active in other forums for the past several years, taking part in discussions and helping novices with their problems. Just because I'm new to this list serve does not classify me as a lurker. But whether I have a long and honorable record as an active Finale supporter still does not give you the right to judge me. And what's the thread cop nonsense you're spouting? That's nonsense. If I want to read about Sibelius there are lots of places I can go to find out about the latest and greatest of that product. But this list is labeled Finale, not Finale and any other competing product people care to promote. Ronald J Brown -Original Message- From: Darcy James Argue [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 12, 2005 6:21 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list? On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote: I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a Finale site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it taken over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius users like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested in reading them either. Then don't. Seriously, what is the point of this thread? The Sibelius discussion was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate. If that's not an appropriate topic for discussion, then what is? And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about allegedly off-topic discussions? Who died and made you thread cop? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Okay, I seem to have started a tempest in a teapot here. I joined this list serve a week ago. There were days when all I saw where lists of Sibelius this and Sibelius that. As a newcomer I was beginning to believe this was a Sibelius list and that I had joined the wrong one. I thought, okay, this is a general music software discussion site. Then Michael Lawler and Ken Folwer complained and I realized what was wrong. I seem to have offended a great many people with my endorsement of Michael Lawler and Ken Folwer's opinions. Is this how it works here? Only well-known names are allowed to publish complaints? If anyone else does, they are lurkers and thread cops? Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing. In peace. Ron Ronald J Brown -Original Message- From: David W. Fenton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 12, 2005 6:58 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list? On 12 Jul 2005 at 18:20, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote: I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a Finale site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it taken over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius users like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested in reading them either. Then don't. Did any of the thread subjects lack the word Sibelius in them? Seriously, what is the point of this thread? The Sibelius discussion was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate. If that's not an appropriate topic for discussion, then what is? And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about allegedly off-topic discussions? Who died and made you thread cop? This is what makes me shake my head, too. The same people who contribute most of the Finale-related content seem to be the ones who were generating all the Sibelius-related content. Why is it, then, that people whose names I don't recognize (i.e., they don't post often, if at all) feel they have some grounds for criticizing what the people who *are* posting have chosen to discuss? If you don't like the current topics, then START A FINALE-RELATED THREAD. This even leaves aside the fact that all of that content was associated with the very relevant issue of how does Sibelius stack up to Finale? I am quite glad that we have Sibelius users on the list who were kind enough to respond to those of us who had specific questions about how Sibelius works. It helps us make a much more objective evaluation when we have the explanations of people who have a deep understanding of the competitor program. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
ronan schrieb: Cool down, Man! I have as much right to voice my opinion as any other member of the list. I have been very active in other forums for the past several years, taking part in discussions and helping novices with their problems. Just because I'm new to this list serve does not classify me as a lurker. But whether I have a long and honorable record as an active Finale supporter still does not give you the right to judge me. And what's the thread cop nonsense you're spouting? That's nonsense. If I want to read about Sibelius there are lots of places I can go to find out about the latest and greatest of that product. But this list is labeled Finale, not Finale and any other competing product people care to promote. My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way this list works you are free to go. The Sibelius issues that were discussed here were directly related to Finale. Even if they weren't, this list has always had a policy of letting OT or TAN discussions come and go. Your only post I can find in the 7000 or so Finale list messages I still have on my computer is the one from last night. How dare you join an existing community with a complaint! (Do you also go to dinner parties complaining about the conversation before you even introduce yourself?) Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing. Ron Sounds good, but stick around. The tides of topics come and go. Some here will remember the (it seems like) hundreds of messages over the question of when the 20th Century actually ended. Ultimately, though, you will find that this list is a tremendous resource. Ask a question about a Finale problem and see how quick you get a solution. Richard Yates ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Yes.. This List has always been a valuable resource when I needed an answer about Finale. Ron should be forgiven for not knowing that it is futile to suggest that a topic be dropped on the Finale List...I have been wearing out my delete key recently too, and I don't recall hearing such anger with another list member since I was on the Trumpet List...:-) ALso, I am happy to say that my chance of switching to Sibelius are two fold: no way and no how. On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, Richard Yates wrote: Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing. Ron Sounds good, but stick around. The tides of topics come and go. Some here will remember the (it seems like) hundreds of messages over the question of when the 20th Century actually ended. Ultimately, though, you will find that this list is a tremendous resource. Ask a question about a Finale problem and see how quick you get a solution. Richard Yates ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Richard Yates wrote: Anyhow, let's drop the whole thing. Ron Sounds good, but stick around. The tides of topics come and go. Some here will remember the (it seems like) hundreds of messages over the question of when the 20th Century actually ended. It's over? Yikes! Why wasn't I informed? :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
At 9:25 AM -0400 7/13/05, Eden - Lawrence D. wrote: I have been wearing out my delete key recently too, This is a handy tip for some email programs: In Eudora, for example, you can option-click on a subject line in the mail box and it will quickly select and group all of the same subject together. That way you can delete in one pass all of a subject that doesn't interest you. -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Hi Randolph, I am interested in your Eudora tip. Thanks for sharing. What is the equivalent on a Windows keyboard of the Mac option key? Ken Fowler At 09:25 AM 7/13/2005 -0500, you wrote: At 9:25 AM -0400 7/13/05, Eden - Lawrence D. wrote: I have been wearing out my delete key recently too, This is a handy tip for some email programs: In Eudora, for example, you can option-click on a subject line in the mail box and it will quickly select and group all of the same subject together. That way you can delete in one pass all of a subject that doesn't interest you. -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
At 12:19 PM 07/13/2005, D. Keneth Fowler wrote: I am interested in your Eudora tip. Thanks for sharing. What is the equivalent on a Windows keyboard of the Mac option key? Alt-click for Win Eudora. You can also Alt-click on a sender's name to quickly group and select all email in the mailbox from that person. This requires some recent version of Eudora. I see that you're using 5.1, which doesn't have this feature. (Latest is 6.2.3) Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to a list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever post to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy is outrageous. I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label them with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this. Johannes Gebauer wrote: My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way this list works you are free to go. The Sibelius issues that were discussed here were directly related to Finale. Even if they weren't, this list has always had a policy of letting OT or TAN discussions come and go. Your only post I can find in the 7000 or so Finale list messages I still have on my computer is the one from last night. How dare you join an existing community with a complaint! (Do you also go to dinner parties complaining about the conversation before you even introduce yourself?) Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Just clicking on the header works fine in V5. At 7/13/2005 12:47 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 12:19 PM 07/13/2005, D. Keneth Fowler wrote: I am interested in your Eudora tip. Thanks for sharing. What is the equivalent on a Windows keyboard of the Mac option key? Alt-click for Win Eudora. You can also Alt-click on a sender's name to quickly group and select all email in the mailbox from that person. This requires some recent version of Eudora. I see that you're using 5.1, which doesn't have this feature. (Latest is 6.2.3) Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN. Get a life. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Eric Dannewitz wrote: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to a list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever post to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy is outrageous. I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label them with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this. Every applicable post has had Sibelius in the subject line. Is that really OT, since most of them were comparing how Sibelius did something with how Finale does something? If Finale is discussed in the message or the thread, how can it be OT or TAN? Having people who don't participate in a regular way all of a sudden chirp up and say I don't like the way this conversation is going, change it please so I can learn more about Finale does nothing to change the conversation. It's like standing around at a cocktail party, saying nothing but listening to everything and saying I'm bored with your conversation, change it please. Try it face to face and see the reaction you'd get. It also show that the complainer thinks this list is provided for people to just monitor and get what they can from it without responding and helping others, as if there were a core of Finale power users who are somehow paid to sit around and discuss how to use the program. People, the way to change the conversation on an e-mail list isn't to complain about it -- ASK A QUESTION! Wanna get the thread back to some area of Finale that you want help with, ASK ABOUT IT! Complaining does nothing, although all members of this list are as free to complain about things, just as free as others are to complain about the complaints. But rather than attacking anybody, if you want a conversation to change direction, do it yourself. There have been several interesting questions posed which are generating answers, all have been questions about Finale, not complaints about the way threads have gone recently. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Yes, some of it was. When people start asking HOW to do stuff in Sibelius, then it becomes not related. Phil Daley wrote: At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN. Get a life. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
On Jul 13, 2005, at 2:27 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Yes, some of it was. When people start asking HOW to do stuff in Sibelius, then it becomes not related. Phil Daley wrote: At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN. I disagree. We find out how to do stuff in Sib to see how it compares to Finale (which we supposedly already know.) Plenty enough on topic for me. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Very much related, since the whole point was to point out the differences and shortcomings of Finale. It is not only related, it is one of the many things that this list is concerned with. Johannes Eric Dannewitz schrieb: Yes, some of it was. When people start asking HOW to do stuff in Sibelius, then it becomes not related. Phil Daley wrote: At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN. Get a life. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Eric Dannewitz schrieb: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? The Sibelius discussion was neither TAN nor OT, and it has Sibelius in the subject header. It was spot on topic. Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to a list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever post to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy is outrageous. I don't think I ever said anything against people who subscribe but don't post - and there is nothing wrong with that. But I don't like the attitude of people lurking, and then coming out of the dark and complain about other people's postings. That's outrageous. I appologize if my comment sounded too harsh, but I do somehow feel that complaints from people on this list, who have nothing else to say but complaints are somewhat disqualified. I don't think I have ever refused to help people with their Finale related problems. I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label them with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this. Again, it was neither TAN not OT, it was right on topic. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Well, that's unfortunate. Johannes Jari Williamsson schrieb: Johannes Gebauer wrote: My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way this list works you are free to go. I go. Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
On 13 Jul 2005, at 1:19 PM, Jari Williamsson wrote: Johannes Gebauer wrote: My patience is already stretched with this. If you don't like the way this list works you are free to go. I go. Well, sorry to hear that. Why? (And why now?) - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
On 13 Jul 2005 at 8:29, ronan wrote: Is this how it works here? Only well-known names are allowed to publish complaints? If anyone else does, they are lurkers and thread cops? You are being taken to task not because you've posted, but because you're complaining about what other people are posting, in a case where the posts you're complaining about are quite relevant to the subject of the list, even if they are of no interest to you, personally. There are lots of Mac-specific posts to this list, and those are of no use to me. I just delete them. Sometimes long threads erupt on subjects that interest me none at all. I just delete them. I don't feel any urge to lecture the list membership on how they aren't posting things that interest ME-ME-ME! Last of all, the people who are participating most actively in the threads you think irrelevant to Finale are also the exact same people who contribute the most to Finale-specific threads. So far as I know, all *you* contribute is complaints about what other people post. So, comparing track records, I'd certainly cut some slack to people who post lots of useful information and occasionally go off on subjects that bore me to tears. I see no reason to cut any slack for someone whose only known appearances on the list are to register complaints about the content that everyone else is providing for the complainer. If you find the current threads on the list boring, START THREADS ON TOPICS THAT ARE OF INTEREST TO YOU. Otherwise, you're just going to generate scolding posts like this one, pointing out how enormously childish you are being by complaining and contributing nothing constructive. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
On 13 Jul 2005 at 9:50, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? Yes, for OT or TAN posts. Neither the Sibelius or the archiving threads are either OT or TAN. The Sibelius thread was about the future of Finale, since everything in it boiled down to comparisons to Finale and how it works. The archiving thread is neither OT or TAN. Some mailing lists use a META abbreviation to indicate threads that are on topics that are larger issues than the usual topic- specific discussion. I wish it had occurred to me to use the META tag when I posted the first message on the archiving issue. In any event, both threads exhibited good subject discipline, in that all the Sibelius threads included Sibelius in the subject, and the archiving thread was limited to two different subject headings, easily identifiable after seeing the first couple of messages. Regardless, your comments are totally out of line in what a list is supposed to be. Is there something wrong with people who subscribe to a list, but don't post? I'm on a number of lists that I hardly ever post to, but I find them valuable. But your attitude towards this guy is outrageous. The problem is not the paucity of someone's posts. It's the nature of the posts that *have* been made, which on this subject seem pretty much limited to complaints about other people's posts. I think when some of you guys go off on tangents, you need to label them with OT or TAN. Most all the other lists I subscribe to do this. A post requesting that would have been a much useful addition to the list than mere complaints about the topics. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
On 13 Jul 2005 at 11:27, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Phil Daley wrote: At 7/13/2005 12:50 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Wow, I think that was a little uncalled for. Isn't the policy though to label OT and TAN in the subject header? The Sib stuff was neither OT nor TAN. Get a life. Yes, some of it was. When people start asking HOW to do stuff in Sibelius, then it becomes not related. How, exactly, do you compare Finale and Sibelius without actually investigating how to accomplish specific tasks in Sibelius? If you don't do that, your comparison is incomplete, and not of much value. If the comparison is itself a valid topic, then questions about how something is accomplished in Sibelius are valid, as well. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Okay, I seem to have started a tempest in a teapot here. I joined this list serve a week ago. There were days when all I saw where lists of Sibelius this and Sibelius that. As a newcomer I was beginning to believe this was a Sibelius list and that I had joined the wrong one. I thought, okay, this is a general music software discussion site. Then Michael Lawler and Ken Folwer complained and I realized what was wrong. In peace. Ron Ron, its just the timing of when you joined. New Sibelius or New Finale - it always peaks up then gets back to business. Just cruise back for a bit and it will die down and go back to normal. -- Rocky Road - in Oz Fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, the last Battlestar, Galactica, leads a ragtag, fugitive fleet, on a lonely quest, for a shining planet known as Earth. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Yes, they do have a relevance to Finale, and I personally think they are vital for the future of Finale. Therefor I object to any attempts to move this discussion elsewhere, or to end it prematurely. If you don't want to read them, just don't read them. I am sure it won't go on for much longer. You do have a delete button on your computer, don't you? Johannes [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
In a message dated 12/07/2005 17:06:31 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. At risk of repeating myself, butchers sometimes talk about fish. All the best, Lawrence þaes ofereode - þisses swa maeg http://lawrenceyates.co.uk Dulcian Wind Quintet: http://dulcianwind.co.uk ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
No, Michael, you are not alone. Ken Fowler At 04:59 PM 7/12/2005 +0100, you wrote: I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
No, you certainly are not! I r'cd 102 Finale(?)messages this a.m.- far too many were Sibelius related. They must be rubbing their hands in glee! Now we have the same thing regarding does anyone know about this. I do not know figures, but I suspect that the majority of list subscribers are not website publishers, but just guys (and gals) like me who use Finale as a neater/quicker/more interesting way of producing sheet music for their own 'local' group or school or church choir or band/orchestra. Maybe I'm wrong- it has been known- just ask my wife!! Cheers, K in OZ Keith Helgesen. Director of Music, Canberra City Band. Ph: (02) 62910787. Band Mob. 0439-620587 Private Mob 0417-042171 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2005 2:00 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list? I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.12/46 - Release Date: 11/07/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.12/46 - Release Date: 11/07/2005 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a Finale site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it taken over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius users like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested in reading them either. Ron Ronald J Brown -Original Message- From: D. Keneth Fowler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: July 12, 2005 4:31 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list? No, Michael, you are not alone. Ken Fowler At 04:59 PM 7/12/2005 +0100, you wrote: I have seen so many Sibelius emails lately, and it is taking up lots of space, that I would have thought there was a better place for Sibelius-related issues (a Sibelius list?). Maybe they do have some relevance to Finale, but I can't be bothered to read them. Am I alone? Michael Lawlor ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote: I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a Finale site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it taken over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius users like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested in reading them either. Then don't. Seriously, what is the point of this thread? The Sibelius discussion was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate. If that's not an appropriate topic for discussion, then what is? And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about allegedly off-topic discussions? Who died and made you thread cop? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
Darcy James Argue schrieb: Then don't. Seriously, what is the point of this thread? The Sibelius discussion was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate. If that's not an appropriate topic for discussion, then what is? And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about allegedly off-topic discussions? Who died and made you thread cop? Hear, hear! Thanks Darcy. You spoke out of my heart. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
On 12 Jul 2005 at 18:20, Darcy James Argue wrote: On 12 Jul 2005, at 6:10 PM, ronan wrote: I must admit, I was surprised to see all the Sibelius notes on a Finale site. It's sort of like having a site for Windows users and having it taken over by Mac users. Or GM taken over by Ford owners. I'm glad Sibelius users like their product and want to talk about it, but I am not interested in reading them either. Then don't. Did any of the thread subjects lack the word Sibelius in them? Seriously, what is the point of this thread? The Sibelius discussion was directly related to the future of Finale and the kind of features and approach we'd like to see Finale emulate. If that's not an appropriate topic for discussion, then what is? And why is it always the lurkers who never contribute solutions to Finale problems (or contribute to the discussion in any way whatsoever) who feel entitled to come out of the woodwork to complain about allegedly off-topic discussions? Who died and made you thread cop? This is what makes me shake my head, too. The same people who contribute most of the Finale-related content seem to be the ones who were generating all the Sibelius-related content. Why is it, then, that people whose names I don't recognize (i.e., they don't post often, if at all) feel they have some grounds for criticizing what the people who *are* posting have chosen to discuss? If you don't like the current topics, then START A FINALE-RELATED THREAD. This even leaves aside the fact that all of that content was associated with the very relevant issue of how does Sibelius stack up to Finale? I am quite glad that we have Sibelius users on the list who were kind enough to respond to those of us who had specific questions about how Sibelius works. It helps us make a much more objective evaluation when we have the explanations of people who have a deep understanding of the competitor program. -- David W. Fentonhttp://www.bway.net/~dfenton David Fenton Associateshttp://www.bway.net/~dfassoc All non-quoted content (c) David W. Fenton, all rights reserved ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?
I, too, appreciate the Sibelius threads. I'm not interested in changing any time soon, and many of the discussions on Sibelius I've only skimmed. (This List has been so busy lately, I can't keep up with all of it!) But ultimately, what I'm interested in is whatever software product is best for doing high-quality engraving and gives me greatest control over the visual appearance. At the moment, that's Finale, and it looks like it will continue to be for at least a few more years. But if Finale and Sibelius are evolving in such a way that Sibelius will become the better tool for professional engraving, I want to know about that. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
