Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
At 9/7/2006 05:53 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: But you can zip TIF, and the end file size is less than 1/3 (I think it's close to 1/4). But it's still larger than the compressed PNG, and barely smaller than the uncompressed PNG: originalzipped TIF 231KB 50KB PNG 53KB 49KB GIF 107KB 107KB The GIF, of course, does not compress at all, as it's internally compressed already. And, of course, if you're dealing with a compressed ZIP, then it's different, still. Here are the results: originalzipped Uncompressed TIF231KB 50KB LZW TIF 122KB 104KB Huffman encoding 89KB 53KB FAX-CCITT 3 90KB 56KB Packbits229KB 43KB Good work !! Is there a reason that you didn't try FAX-CCITT 4? That is (supposedly) the best TIF compression for a bitonal image. (If you don't have that capability, send me the image off-list and I'll try it out.) Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
On 8 Sep 2006 at 6:44, Phil Daley wrote: Is there a reason that you didn't try FAX-CCITT 4? It's not one of the options offered by PaintShop Pro. That is (supposedly) the best TIF compression for a bitonal image. (If you don't have that capability, send me the image off-list and I'll try it out.) You can download all the images at: http://dfenton.com/images I also tested file size on the TIF as a full-color image and how it converts. Turned out that PNG would convert the huge color TIF to a file size almost as small as the 2-color TIF. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
At 9/8/2006 06:44 AM, Phil Daley wrote: originalzipped Uncompressed TIF231KB 50KB LZW TIF 122KB 104KB Huffman encoding 89KB 53KB FAX-CCITT 3 90KB 56KB Packbits229KB 43KB Good work !! Is there a reason that you didn't try FAX-CCITT 4? Your test.tif: FAX-CCITT 4 226KB 47KB Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
On 8 Sep 2006 at 14:18, Phil Daley wrote: At 9/8/2006 06:44 AM, Phil Daley wrote: originalzipped Uncompressed TIF231KB 50KB LZW TIF 122KB 104KB Huffman encoding 89KB 53KB FAX-CCITT 3 90KB 56KB Packbits229KB 43KB Good work !! Is there a reason that you didn't try FAX-CCITT 4? Your test.tif: FAX-CCITT 4 226KB 47KB Sorry, but I don't understand. Is 47KBs the zipped up size, or the size after applying FAX-CCITT 4 compression? If the latter, what's the size when you zip it up (the size inside the zip file, not of the whole zip file? -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
On 06.09.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: It makes no sense at all to send a black and white file as a JPG. It makes much more sense to use GIF of PNG, which are much efficient for this type of graphic. Very much agreeed, not just because of efficiency, but also quality, a black and white JPEG never renders well. A GIF does. Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
At 9/6/2006 05:47 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: dhbailey / 2006/09/06 / 05:12 PM wrote: Save the file as TIFF graphics, then open them in a graphics editing program and save them as JPG files, with the least amount of compression (larger file size), Y'know, I don't know about this. It's only 2 bits source. Converting into JPG increases the file size in ridiculous amount. Also least compression rate won't improve the quality of the image. Why not just send as tif? Maybe the receiving end is imagining as if JPG will reduce the file size? If it reduces the size it will also reduce the resolution and make everything jaggy. They should be using GIF or PNG. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
On 7 Sep 2006 at 11:20, Johannes Gebauer wrote: On 06.09.2006 David W. Fenton wrote: It makes no sense at all to send a black and white file as a JPG. It makes much more sense to use GIF of PNG, which are much efficient for this type of graphic. Very much agreeed, not just because of efficiency, but also quality, a black and white JPEG never renders well. A GIF does. Well, that's not entirely true. The quality of the JPG depends on the compression ratio. A very low one, less than 5% will result in a file that displays indistinguishably from GIF of PNG or TIF, but it will not be very efficient in terms of file size by comparison. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 06:20 AM wrote: If it reduces the size it will also reduce the resolution and make everything jaggy. You are confused. Resolution and bit depth is two different things. Finale output is 2 bit. TIF will maintain in 2 bit. As soon as you convert it too GIF, the file becomes 8 bit, which is a total waste for Finale output. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
At 9/7/2006 10:28 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 06:20 AM wrote: If it reduces the size it will also reduce the resolution and make everything jaggy. You are confused. Resolution and bit depth is two different things. You are confused. Reducing the size of a JPEG by increasing the compression ratio will reduce the resolution of the image. It matters naught what the bit depth is. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 10:40 AM wrote: Reducing the size of a JPEG by increasing the compression ratio will reduce the resolution of the image. It matters naught what the bit depth is. Are we still talking about Finale output which is 2 bit tif? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
I thought they were talking about converting the TIFF file to JPEG. At 9/7/2006 10:54 AM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 10:40 AM wrote: Reducing the size of a JPEG by increasing the compression ratio will reduce the resolution of the image. It matters naught what the bit depth is. Are we still talking about Finale output which is 2 bit tif? Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 11:05 AM wrote: I thought they were talking about converting the TIFF file to JPEG. And I said keep it as tif if the file size for email is the objectivity :-) -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
On 7 Sep 2006 at 10:28, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 06:20 AM wrote: If it reduces the size it will also reduce the resolution and make everything jaggy. You are confused. Resolution and bit depth is two different things. Finale output is 2 bit. TIF will maintain in 2 bit. As soon as you convert it too GIF, the file becomes 8 bit, which is a total waste for Finale output. But not everyone has a TIF viewer. And GIFs are palette-based, so it actually comes out smaller. I just exported a single system TIF at 600dpi. The file size was 226KB. When I saved that as a GIF its size was 105KB. A JPG of the same graphic at 15% compression was 634KB, and at 0% compression, 902KB. The PNG version was 52KB. It's pretty clear that GIF or PNG is the best format, as I said on the front end. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
At 9/7/2006 11:42 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: It's pretty clear that GIF or PNG is the best format, as I said on the front end. And I absolutely agree. Also, since my major job function is writing code that does editing and displaying images of many file types, I _might_ have some knowledge about it ;-) We currently support these file extensions: fli flc cal mil rst cg4 gp4 cals bil gif ig4 jpg jpeg pct pict png rlc tif tiff tga bmp dib rle pcx I'll bet there are some names on this list that people have never heard of ;-) Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
David W. Fenton / 2006/09/07 / 11:42 AM wrote: But not everyone has a TIF viewer. Oh, c'mon. You can say that to PNG viewer. I had TIF viewer on my Win95 but not PNG! I just exported a single system TIF at 600dpi. The file size was 226KB. When I saved that as a GIF its size was 105KB. But you can zip TIF, and the end file size is less than 1/3 (I think it's close to 1/4). -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
At 9/7/2006 12:47 PM, A-NO-NE Music wrote: David W. Fenton / 2006/09/07 / 11:42 AM wrote: But not everyone has a TIF viewer. Oh, c'mon. You can say that to PNG viewer. I had TIF viewer on my Win95 but not PNG! I just exported a single system TIF at 600dpi. The file size was 226KB. When I saved that as a GIF its size was 105KB. But you can zip TIF, and the end file size is less than 1/3 (I think it's close to 1/4). The recipients DID NOT WANT TIFF. What part of that don't you understand? Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 12:57 PM wrote: The recipients DID NOT WANT TIFF. This thread subject says JPEG or TIFF, does it not? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
On 7 Sep 2006 at 12:47, A-NO-NE Music wrote: David W. Fenton / 2006/09/07 / 11:42 AM wrote: But not everyone has a TIF viewer. Oh, c'mon. You can say that to PNG viewer. I had TIF viewer on my Win95 but not PNG! If you have Firefox, you had a PNG viewer. Most people don't have graphics programs, or don't know how to use them. If their browser doesn't support it, they don't know how to view it, and I know of no browser that displays TIFs. I just exported a single system TIF at 600dpi. The file size was 226KB. When I saved that as a GIF its size was 105KB. But you can zip TIF, and the end file size is less than 1/3 (I think it's close to 1/4). But it's still larger than the compressed PNG, and barely smaller than the uncompressed PNG: originalzipped TIF 231KB 50KB PNG 53KB 49KB GIF 107KB 107KB The GIF, of course, does not compress at all, as it's internally compressed already. And, of course, if you're dealing with a compressed ZIP, then it's different, still. Here are the results: originalzipped Uncompressed TIF231KB 50KB LZW TIF 122KB 104KB Huffman encoding 89KB 53KB FAX-CCITT 3 90KB 56KB Packbits229KB 43KB None of the compressed formats created by my graphics program (PaintShop Pro) is more efficient than a zipped uncompressed TIF, and only the zipped uncompressed TIF is smaller than the unzipped PNG. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
On 7 Sep 2006 at 13:05, A-NO-NE Music wrote: Phil Daley / 2006/09/07 / 12:57 PM wrote: The recipients DID NOT WANT TIFF. This thread subject says JPEG or TIFF, does it not? And my understanding was that they specifically requested JPG, which is the least efficient and least appropriate format of all the ones we've talked about. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
D. Keneth Fowler wrote: To the wisdom of the list, A customer is requesting that a file be e-mailed in JPEG format. Is this possible. If so, how does one do it? Ages ago I sent several files in TIFF format. No problem. Now I cannot remember how I did it. I should have notes on the process, but they cannot be found. I looked through the User Manual without success. Is this info there tucked away in some dark corner? Many thanks for helping this memory that is showing signs of decay. Save the file as TIFF graphics, then open them in a graphics editing program and save them as JPG files, with the least amount of compression (larger file size), and then send them as attachments to an e-mail. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] E-mail files in JPEG or TIFF format
dhbailey / 2006/09/06 / 05:12 PM wrote: Save the file as TIFF graphics, then open them in a graphics editing program and save them as JPG files, with the least amount of compression (larger file size), Y'know, I don't know about this. It's only 2 bits source. Converting into JPG increases the file size in ridiculous amount. Also least compression rate won't improve the quality of the image. Why not just send as tif? Maybe the receiving end is imagining as if JPG will reduce the file size? -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
