Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
On 03.07.2009 shirling neueweise wrote: Yes. However, if you have either of these: - hairpins this depends on the nature of your score. you can selectively hide in SC and PTs if there are only a few problematic places. hairpins are not the general problem johannes suggests. I find them so problematic that even a single hairpin would be enough to make me use single files. You cannot use the same hairpins in the score and the part, unless the spacing is identical. - cues i have posted a couple of times before a way to use staff styles to get around this problem in linked parts. normally i would look it up and re-post but it's late and i'm drunk. check the archives. I know there are work arounds, but for me they are simply not worth the hassle. I tried this myself at first, but I am much happier using two files. The great benefit of having linked parts, for me, is something else: I can make pre-production parts from the score file, before I have completely finished the work. Only in the last stages I separate the score and the parts file, to have flexibility of changing hairpins in the parts and adding cue notes. After that at least I only have to make corrections in two files, instead of many as I had to before. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
Christopher Smith wrote: But you lose the essential (for me) feature of being able to make corrections and changes in ONE place only and have them apply to the parts and score simultaneously. I have to say I find this claim to be somewhat disingenuous. While it is true that some corrections and changes need only be made in one place, such corrections and changes are the very easiest to do twice. If you do any major revisions (removing or adding measures, for example) you will likely find yourself still making changes to the page layout for every part individually, and these are the most tedious, time-consuming changes associated with revisions. Neither approach avoids those. Balance that limitation against the extraordinary number of extra steps required to keep the parts in the same file with the score. Adding cues is a *major* pain as are clef changes that occur in either or score or part but not the other. Also consider the compromises you must make in the quality of output. Hairpins can only be positioned correctly in either the score or the part but not both. Same goes for special tools mods. (And don't even ask about splitting parts that appear on a single score staff!) Given all that, I can't see any sense in it. A separate file containing all the parts is definitely the best way to go in my book. You give up very little with respect to making revisions, and you gain tremendously in time saved creating the score and parts and also in quality of output for all. Of course, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks applies. Both approaches exploit the linked parts feature, and both are superior in almost every way to the old extracted parts method. -- Robert Patterson Listers, Is it possible to use later versions of Finale without utilizing linked parts? If I went from FinMac 2K4 to 2K7, for example, would part creation in both versions be the same or does the user have to learn new routines for the later version? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 11:09 AM, Lawrence David Eden wrote: Christopher Smith wrote: But you lose the essential (for me) feature of being able to make corrections and changes in ONE place only and have them apply to the parts and score simultaneously. I have to say I find this claim to be somewhat disingenuous. While it is true that some corrections and changes need only be made in one place, such corrections and changes are the very easiest to do twice. If you do any major revisions (removing or adding measures, for example) you will likely find yourself still making changes to the page layout for every part individually, and these are the most tedious, time-consuming changes associated with revisions. Neither approach avoids those. Balance that limitation against the extraordinary number of extra steps required to keep the parts in the same file with the score. Adding cues is a *major* pain as are clef changes that occur in either or score or part but not the other. Also consider the compromises you must make in the quality of output. Hairpins can only be positioned correctly in either the score or the part but not both. Same goes for special tools mods. (And don't even ask about splitting parts that appear on a single score staff!) Given all that, I can't see any sense in it. A separate file containing all the parts is definitely the best way to go in my book. You give up very little with respect to making revisions, and you gain tremendously in time saved creating the score and parts and also in quality of output for all. Of course, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks applies. Both approaches exploit the linked parts feature, and both are superior in almost every way to the old extracted parts method. -- Robert Patterson Listers, Is it possible to use later versions of Finale without utilizing linked parts? If I went from FinMac 2K4 to 2K7, for example, would part creation in both versions be the same or does the user have to learn new routines for the later version? There IS new material to learn. Extracted parts have to go through the same new part creation process that linked parts do. If you use the Setup Wizard, most of the work is done for you, but if you open a pre-2007 file in 2007 or later, you have to create the parts, then extract them. It's not hard, you just have to read the manual. I actually don't suggest that, unless there is something radically different between the parts that is unavoidable. I have had to extract a part once in a while because I needed something different that I couldn't easily change from the other parts, but the farthest I have gone is to have a separate score file and parts file, but all the parts in the parts file were linked. It really is great! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
Amen to this ... saved me many hours. Dean Robert Wrote: A separate file containing all the parts is definitely the best way to go in my book. You give up very little with respect to making revisions, and you gain tremendously in time saved creating the score and parts and also in quality of output for all. Canto ergo sum And, I'd rather be composing than decomposing Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
On 7/3/2009 11:32 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: There IS new material to learn. Extracted parts have to go through the same new part creation process that linked parts do. If you use the Setup Wizard, most of the work is done for you, but if you open a pre-2007 file in 2007 or later, you have to create the parts, then extract them. It's not hard, you just have to read the manual. Just to clarify, the process is actually very simple. If you open a pre-2007 file and go to Extract Parts, you'll see that there are no parts listed. All you have to do, in most cases, is press the button that says Generate Parts. Then your parts magically appear in the dialog, and you can extract them. In some cases, you'll have to go into the Manage Parts dialog and make some changes before extracting. The reason for all of this is from Fin2007 on, an extracted part is nothing more and nothing less than a saved copy of a linked part. So in order to extract parts, Finale first creates the linked parts (if you haven't already) and then saves each one to its own file. If you have no interest in the conveniences of linked parts, you don't need to actually work with them at all. You can pretend they're not even there and just work with the extracted copies. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
On Jul 3, 2009, at 12:11 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: On 7/3/2009 11:32 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: There IS new material to learn. Extracted parts have to go through the same new part creation process that linked parts do. If you use the Setup Wizard, most of the work is done for you, but if you open a pre-2007 file in 2007 or later, you have to create the parts, then extract them. It's not hard, you just have to read the manual. Just to clarify, the process is actually very simple. If you open a pre-2007 file and go to Extract Parts, you'll see that there are no parts listed. All you have to do, in most cases, is press the button that says Generate Parts. Then your parts magically appear in the dialog, and you can extract them. In some cases, you'll have to go into the Manage Parts dialog and make some changes before extracting. The reason for all of this is from Fin2007 on, an extracted part is nothing more and nothing less than a saved copy of a linked part. So in order to extract parts, Finale first creates the linked parts (if you haven't already) and then saves each one to its own file. If you have no interest in the conveniences of linked parts, you don't need to actually work with them at all. You can pretend they're not even there and just work with the extracted copies. You may have to create multi-measure rests, too. There are a few little details that screwed me up briefly when linked parts first came out. Only briefly, though. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
Absolutely. Best feature MakeMusic added. Huge time saver. On Jul 2, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Paul Hayden wrote: FinMac09 Mac OS 10.5.6 I have never used linked parts before. In about a week I'll be finishing a big score (on deadline) for voices and orchestra, and I'll have to decide whether or not to use linked parts. Bottom line, have you found them to be a time-saver? Thanks. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com Voice Pre-arranged fax: 225-769-9604 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
On 02.07.2009 Paul Hayden wrote: Bottom line, have you found them to be a time-saver? Yes. However, if you have either of these: - hairpins - cues use a separate parts file. You may find that useful also for other items like slurs, ties, accidentals, bar numbers etc. I always have a separate parts file. Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
Paul, This is not an easy question to answer, but I will try to tell you about my experience. First, you need to have TG Tools Transfer Layout function available in order to save time laying out parts that are similar. When you have done Violin I, if Violin II is similar, you can transfer the layout from the first part to the second and then simply tweak the things that need changing. This is faster than using extracted parts, emptying the entries from Violin I, changing the name, and refilling with Violin II entries. In most cases, edits and changes made to the score are reflected in the parts without the need for further adjustments. If there is going to be a lot of that kind of thing, then the linked parts become desirable. However, especially the first time you use them, it will take time to learn how to deal with page numbers, text block positioning (hiding and showing) - things like that, and that may slow you down compared to your usual speed with extracted parts. (You may find you are quicker at learning these things than I was.) All things considered, I have gotten used to using the linked parts and have the impression that I am now quicker with them than I used to be with extracted parts. The advantages now outweigh the obstacles for me, but it took me some time to get to that point. I am working in 2009 (using linked parts) now despite having and liking 2010, because Tobias has yet to update TG Tools to work fully in 2010. I hope this helps. Chuck On Jul 2, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Paul Hayden wrote: FinMac09 Mac OS 10.5.6 I have never used linked parts before. In about a week I'll be finishing a big score (on deadline) for voices and orchestra, and I'll have to decide whether or not to use linked parts. Bottom line, have you found them to be a time-saver? Thanks. Paul Hayden Magnolia Music Press www.paulhayden.com Voice Pre-arranged fax: 225-769-9604 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
On Jul 2, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Paul Hayden wrote: FinMac09 Mac OS 10.5.6 I have never used linked parts before. In about a week I'll be finishing a big score (on deadline) for voices and orchestra, and I'll have to decide whether or not to use linked parts. Bottom line, have you found them to be a time-saver? Thanks. Paul Hayden Yes, but you have to know how to use them! One instrument per staff, set up the score with the Setup Wizard, nothing can go wrong. Piece of cake. But if you double up winds on staves, you have some homework to do, and some manual setting up. Many suggest that on a score with the least little bit of complication, that it is better to have one file for the score, then duplicate it and separate out the individual staves with TG Tools and use THAT for all the linked parts. It certainly saves a lot of kludging. It also allows you easily add in cues in the parts alone that would require an extra step (on EVERY CUE) if you only have one file. But you lose the essential (for me) feature of being able to make corrections and changes in ONE place only and have them apply to the parts and score simultaneously. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
Yes. However, if you have either of these: - hairpins this depends on the nature of your score. you can selectively hide in SC and PTs if there are only a few problematic places. hairpins are not the general problem johannes suggests. - cues i have posted a couple of times before a way to use staff styles to get around this problem in linked parts. normally i would look it up and re-post but it's late and i'm drunk. check the archives. there are serious inadequacies in finale's linked parts but they won't affect every user. and i repeat, and will continue to repeat as needed: many misunderstandings when encountering linked parts for the first time can be (re)solved by reading and re-reading the manual chapter on linked parts, in particular pp. 37-5 and 37-7 (F 2007), as i recall, which were until very recently tacked up on the corkboard next to my workspace and only removed because of a sublet... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Linked parts--yes or no?
Christopher Smith wrote: But you lose the essential (for me) feature of being able to make corrections and changes in ONE place only and have them apply to the parts and score simultaneously. I have to say I find this claim to be somewhat disingenuous. While it is true that some corrections and changes need only be made in one place, such corrections and changes are the very easiest to do twice. If you do any major revisions (removing or adding measures, for example) you will likely find yourself still making changes to the page layout for every part individually, and these are the most tedious, time-consuming changes associated with revisions. Neither approach avoids those. Balance that limitation against the extraordinary number of extra steps required to keep the parts in the same file with the score. Adding cues is a *major* pain as are clef changes that occur in either or score or part but not the other. Also consider the compromises you must make in the quality of output. Hairpins can only be positioned correctly in either the score or the part but not both. Same goes for special tools mods. (And don't even ask about splitting parts that appear on a single score staff!) Given all that, I can't see any sense in it. A separate file containing all the parts is definitely the best way to go in my book. You give up very little with respect to making revisions, and you gain tremendously in time saved creating the score and parts and also in quality of output for all. Of course, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks applies. Both approaches exploit the linked parts feature, and both are superior in almost every way to the old extracted parts method. -- Robert Patterson http://RobertGPatterson.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
