Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[David R. Morrison]

On Aug 19, 2004, at 8:12 PM, Blair Zajac wrote:
Daniel Macks wrote:
On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 12:55:02AM +0200, Martin Costabel wrote:
Yes, I think it is a bug in the new fink.
In SelfUpdate.pm, the line
next unless ($tree =~ /stable/);
was changed to
next unless ($tree eq "stable" or $tree eq "unstable");
But $tree is typically something like "stable/crypto", so this never 
matches. This was added 6 weeks ago, but since developers never use 
selfupdate-rsync, it was not noticed until the CVS HEAD hit the 
streets :-)
Bug author CCed.

Fixed in CVS HEAD. Please check that this now works correctly, and
we'll push a new fink pkg ASAP.
dan
Yes, the new version works fine for me.  I've got the standard looking 
rsync command now.

And I thought, wow, they cleaned it up and made the rsync command that 
much shorter.  Good work :)
The new version of fink is now out.
In addition to suggestions made earlier, note that users can be 
instructed to download fink-0.22.1.tar.gz, untar it by hand, and then 
run "./inject.pl" from within the fink-0.22.1 directory.

  -- Dave

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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[Michèle Garoche]

Le 19 août 2004, à 21:12, Martin Costabel a écrit :
Michèle Garoche wrote:
Apart the maintainer problem, the layout makes a presupposition that  
all the other fields are identical for all versions, which is not  
always the case:
- Description may vary
- Section may vary
- License may vary
Taking care of this would not be a problem of visual layout, but of 
database organization and would require some serious coding, I 
suspect.
I think particularly of packages which have now several variants. Maybe 
a warning to read the info file for the specific version could be 
sufficient.

Do there exist web sites where you can choose your variant of color 
blindness and you get pages in different color schemes?
Not directly, but there are several stylesheets based on different 
color schemes and you can choose among them the one which fits best 
your eyes (handicap or not).

Michèle



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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Blair Zajac]

Daniel Macks wrote:
On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 12:55:02AM +0200, Martin Costabel wrote:
 

Yes, I think it is a bug in the new fink.
In SelfUpdate.pm, the line
next unless ($tree =~ /stable/);
was changed to
next unless ($tree eq "stable" or $tree eq "unstable");
But $tree is typically something like "stable/crypto", so this never 
matches. This was added 6 weeks ago, but since developers never use 
selfupdate-rsync, it was not noticed until the CVS HEAD hit the streets :-)
Bug author CCed.
   

Fixed in CVS HEAD. Please check that this now works correctly, and
we'll push a new fink pkg ASAP.
dan
 

Yes, the new version works fine for me.  I've got the standard looking 
rsync command now.

And I thought, wow, they cleaned it up and made the rsync command that 
much shorter.  Good work :)

Blair

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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Daniel Macks]

On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 12:55:02AM +0200, Martin Costabel wrote:
> 
> Yes, I think it is a bug in the new fink.
> 
> In SelfUpdate.pm, the line
> 
>  next unless ($tree =~ /stable/);
> 
> was changed to
> 
>  next unless ($tree eq "stable" or $tree eq "unstable");
> 
> But $tree is typically something like "stable/crypto", so this never 
> matches. This was added 6 weeks ago, but since developers never use 
> selfupdate-rsync, it was not noticed until the CVS HEAD hit the streets :-)
> Bug author CCed.

Fixed in CVS HEAD. Please check that this now works correctly, and
we'll push a new fink pkg ASAP.

dan

-- 
Daniel Macks
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.netspace.org/~dmacks



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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Martin Costabel]

Remi Mommsen wrote:
[]
I guess most users will still have the deb file from the previous fink 
version on their computers. Why not recommend immediately to downgrade 
to the previous version using dpkg?

Just my 2 cents.
Right, I knew there was "something else", just couldn't think of it 
(it's 1:40am here). I need some sleep.

--
Martin

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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Remi Mommsen]

Hi Martin,
On Aug 19, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Martin Costabel wrote:
Martin Costabel wrote:
[]
Yes, I think it is a bug in the new fink.
In SelfUpdate.pm, the line
 next unless ($tree =~ /stable/);
was changed to
 next unless ($tree eq "stable" or $tree eq "unstable");
But $tree is typically something like "stable/crypto", so this never 
matches. This was added 6 weeks ago, but since developers never use 
selfupdate-rsync, it was not noticed until the CVS HEAD hit the 
streets :-)
Bug author CCed.
Thinking about this some more, it looks now like a major catastrophe 
to me. If I am not mistaken, people who have the new fink cannot 
rsync-selfupdate any more. In particular, they won't get any fixed 
fink automatically.

We need to define a method how to fix this (supposing fink is fixed 
first) and then to announce it, perhaps even on the web page. People 
will have to
- either fix their SelfUpdate.pm by hand
- or download a fixed SelfUpdate.pm and install it
- or temporarily switch to selfupdate-cvs
- or something else
I guess most users will still have the deb file from the previous fink 
version on their computers. Why not recommend immediately to downgrade 
to the previous version using dpkg?

Just my 2 cents.
Remi
-
Q: How many kinds of physicists are there?
A: Three. Those who can count and those who can't.
*
Remigius K. Mommsen e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of California, Irvine   URL:http://cern.ch/mommsen
c/o SLAC voice:++1 (650) 926-3595
2575 Sand Hill Road #35fax:++1 (650) 926-3882
Menlo Park, CA 94025, US  home:++1 (650) 233-9041
*

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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Martin Costabel]

Martin Costabel wrote:
[]
Yes, I think it is a bug in the new fink.
In SelfUpdate.pm, the line
 next unless ($tree =~ /stable/);
was changed to
 next unless ($tree eq "stable" or $tree eq "unstable");
But $tree is typically something like "stable/crypto", so this never 
matches. This was added 6 weeks ago, but since developers never use 
selfupdate-rsync, it was not noticed until the CVS HEAD hit the streets :-)
Bug author CCed.
Thinking about this some more, it looks now like a major catastrophe to 
me. If I am not mistaken, people who have the new fink cannot 
rsync-selfupdate any more. In particular, they won't get any fixed fink 
automatically.

We need to define a method how to fix this (supposing fink is fixed 
first) and then to announce it, perhaps even on the web page. People 
will have to
- either fix their SelfUpdate.pm by hand
- or download a fixed SelfUpdate.pm and install it
- or temporarily switch to selfupdate-cvs
- or something else

--
Martin

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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Martin Costabel]

Blair Zajac wrote:
Martin Costabel wrote:
Blair Zajac wrote:
It appears that the rsync mirror is not being updated from the CVS 
server.  I haven't seen any of the today's CVS commits in rsync.

Strange, I see lots of updates in rsync, even in 10.3/stable.
Maybe it has something to do with this shorter rsync command line:
~ blair$ fink selfupdate
/usr/bin/sudo /sw/bin/fink  selfupdate
Password:
rsync -az -q  rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo//TIMESTAMP 
/sw/fink/TIMESTAMP.tmp
I will now run the rsync command to retrieve the latest package 
descriptions.
rsync -rtz --delete-after --delete -q   --include='VERSION' 
--include='DISTRIBUTION' --include='README' --exclude='**' 
'rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo/' '/sw/fink/'
Reading package info...

This happened recently, I believe after I upgraded to the latest fink 
release.
Yes, I think it is a bug in the new fink.
In SelfUpdate.pm, the line
 next unless ($tree =~ /stable/);
was changed to
 next unless ($tree eq "stable" or $tree eq "unstable");
But $tree is typically something like "stable/crypto", so this never 
matches. This was added 6 weeks ago, but since developers never use 
selfupdate-rsync, it was not noticed until the CVS HEAD hit the streets :-)
Bug author CCed.

--
Martin


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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Blair Zajac]

Martin Costabel wrote:
Blair Zajac wrote:
It appears that the rsync mirror is not being updated from the CVS 
server.  I haven't seen any of the today's CVS commits in rsync.

Strange, I see lots of updates in rsync, even in 10.3/stable.
Maybe it has something to do with this shorter rsync command line:
~ blair$ fink selfupdate
/usr/bin/sudo /sw/bin/fink  selfupdate
Password:
rsync -az -q  rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo//TIMESTAMP 
/sw/fink/TIMESTAMP.tmp
I will now run the rsync command to retrieve the latest package 
descriptions.
rsync -rtz --delete-after --delete -q   --include='VERSION' 
--include='DISTRIBUTION' --include='README' --exclude='**' 
'rsync://master.us.finkmirrors.net/finkinfo/' '/sw/fink/'
Reading package info...

This happened recently, I believe after I upgraded to the latest fink 
release.

Blair

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Re: [Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Martin Costabel]

Blair Zajac wrote:
It appears that the rsync mirror is not being updated from the CVS 
server.  I haven't seen any of the today's CVS commits in rsync.
Strange, I see lots of updates in rsync, even in 10.3/stable.
--
Martin

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[Fink-devel] Rsync not being updated

[Blair Zajac]

It appears that the rsync mirror is not being updated from the CVS 
server.  I haven't seen any of the today's CVS commits in rsync.

Regards,
Blair

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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[Martin Costabel]

Michèle Garoche wrote:
Apart the maintainer problem, the layout makes a presupposition that  
all the other fields are identical for all versions, which is not  
always the case:
- Description may vary
- Section may vary
- License may vary
Taking care of this would not be a problem of visual layout, but of 
database organization and would require some serious coding, I suspect.

It would go some way in the direction of debian's package database. They 
have completely different pages for the different distributions and for 
each package just a small page with links for the different versions, 
for example: 
http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=passwd
Then the page for each version has each and every bit of information one 
can ever want to have about the package. I am not sure if we want to go 
down this path. Our public is different (not to mention manpower).

Then I'm not sure colors may be suitable for color-blind people, though  
I'm in this category and have no problem with them, but there are many  
different way of being color-blind.
Yes, on the color layout page referred to by fink.css 
http://www.pixy.cz/apps/barvy/index-en.html I learned that there are at 
least 8 kinds of color blindness. But in our case, the colors wouldn't 
carry essential information, so this wouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I am 
not sure what this information is good for. Do there exist web sites 
where you can choose your variant of color blindness and you get pages 
in different color schemes?

--
Martin
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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[Freek Dijkstra]

On 19-8-2004 19:29, "Michèle Garoche" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Then I'm not sure colors may be suitable for color-blind people, though
> I'm in this category and have no problem with them, but there are many
> different way of being color-blind.

If you want to know: find out!

I always love the visibone remarks on web layout. And in this case, one
www.visibone.com/colorblind they link to this site:
http://www.vischeck.com/vischeck/vischeckURL.php

As you can see, the colours are suitable.

Regards,
Freek




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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[David H.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: RIPEMD160
Michèle Garoche wrote:

| Then I'm not sure colors may be suitable for color-blind people, though
| I'm in this category and have no problem with them, but there are many
| different way of being color-blind.
|
maybe it is a good idea to follow this route and look at :
http://www.w3.org/WAI/
Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
- -d
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Version: GnuPG v1.3.6 (Darwin)
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=Cq8/
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Re: [Fink-devel] atlas build noncompliance

[Alexander K. Hansen]

On Aug 19, 2004, at 1:16 PM, Martin Costabel wrote:
Alexander K. Hansen wrote:
I don't recall having seen this specific issue discussed before here:
It was mentioned a couple of times, as an example why the "identical 
.deb" policy, if taken too literally, can lead to absurd results (like 
most policies).

As part of its build process the atlas package autodetects the number 
of CPUs, and applies a build flag appropriately.  Unfortunately, the 
result is that the .deb files aren't identical on different machines:
Single processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin  5754496 19 Aug 11:02 
atlas_3.6.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb
Dual processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin26614516 18 Aug 22:17 
scilab_3.0-4_darwin-powerpc.deb
Given the nature of the package, it would probably be a good thing to 
have separate single- and dual-cpu variants (for that matter a 
G5-optimized one would be good, too).  Presumably this would require 
dependencies new virtual packages for the type and number of CPUs.
You would need different variants for G3, G4, G5. Where is the problem 
that is being solved by such a diarrhea of packages? The very idea of 
atlas is that it adapts itself to the machine on which it is supposed 
to run, so it wants to be different on every machine.

--
Martin
Actually, I was thinking about the principle of the thing:  If there's 
a package that produces different debs on different machines, then the 
policy isn't ironclad.  In this case, what's the problem with adding G5 
optimization or other tweaks that people on the lists are asking about?
--
Alexander K. Hansen
Associate Research Scientist, Columbia University
visiting MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center
Levitated Dipole Experiment
175 Albany Street, NW17-219
Cambridge, MA  02139-4213


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Re: [Fink-devel] atlas build noncompliance

[Alexander K. Hansen]

And all this may be moot anyway, since the maintainer reported to me 
that he planned to discontinue atlas.  Quoting:
---
Alexander:  I'm trying to phase out ATLAS, since Apple's VecLib provides
most (if not all) of the functionality and speed.  Scilab is one of the 
few
(maybe the only?) package that still Depends on it.

-Jeff
---
And it's really only scilab-atlas.  I'm not sure if
On Aug 19, 2004, at 1:19 PM, Todd Heidesch wrote:
I haven't been able to get atlas to compile on a dual G5 yet anyway, 
so a change is probably good here.
-Todd

On Aug 19, 2004, at 10:50 AM, Alexander K. Hansen wrote:
I don't recall having seen this specific issue discussed before here:
As part of its build process the atlas package autodetects the number 
of CPUs, and applies a build flag appropriately.  Unfortunately, the 
result is that the .deb files aren't identical on different machines:

Single processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin  5754496 19 Aug 11:02 
atlas_3.6.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb

Dual processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin26614516 18 Aug 22:17 
scilab_3.0-4_darwin-powerpc.deb

Given the nature of the package, it would probably be a good thing to 
have separate single- and dual-cpu variants (for that matter a 
G5-optimized one would be good, too).  Presumably this would require 
dependencies new virtual packages for the type and number of CPUs.

This would open the door to G5-optimized variants of packages, 
though, so it might be a useful option.
--
Alexander K. Hansen
Fink Documentarian
Day Job:  Levitated Dipole Experiment
http://www.psfc.mit.edu/LDX


--
Alexander Hansen
Fink Documentarian
[Day Job] Levitated Dipole Experiment
http://www.psfc.mit.edu/LDX

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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[Michèle Garoche]

Le 19 août 2004, à 17:42, Martin Costabel a écrit :
The first option uses the screen real estate better. The column  
headers that are somewhat too heavy could be made lighter by replacing  
the two-liners "stableversion" and "unstableversion" by just  
"stable" and "unstable". It is clear at this point that the numbers in  
the columns refer to versions.

Also, as has been suggested, some color would be useful, for example  
like here:

http://perso.univ-rennes1.fr/martin.costabel/fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/ 
test/passwd.html
Apart the maintainer problem, the layout makes a presupposition that  
all the other fields are identical for all versions, which is not  
always the case:
- Description may vary
- Section may vary
- License may vary

Then I'm not sure colors may be suitable for color-blind people, though  
I'm in this category and have no problem with them, but there are many  
different way of being color-blind.

Michèle



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Description: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ceci_est_une_signature_=E9lectronique_PGP?=

Re: [Fink-devel] atlas build noncompliance

[Todd Heidesch]

I haven't been able to get atlas to compile on a dual G5 yet anyway, so 
a change is probably good here.
-Todd

On Aug 19, 2004, at 10:50 AM, Alexander K. Hansen wrote:
I don't recall having seen this specific issue discussed before here:
As part of its build process the atlas package autodetects the number 
of CPUs, and applies a build flag appropriately.  Unfortunately, the 
result is that the .deb files aren't identical on different machines:

Single processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin  5754496 19 Aug 11:02 
atlas_3.6.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb

Dual processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin26614516 18 Aug 22:17 
scilab_3.0-4_darwin-powerpc.deb

Given the nature of the package, it would probably be a good thing to 
have separate single- and dual-cpu variants (for that matter a 
G5-optimized one would be good, too).  Presumably this would require 
dependencies new virtual packages for the type and number of CPUs.

This would open the door to G5-optimized variants of packages, though, 
so it might be a useful option.
--
Alexander K. Hansen
Fink Documentarian
Day Job:  Levitated Dipole Experiment
http://www.psfc.mit.edu/LDX


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Re: [Fink-devel] atlas build noncompliance

[Martin Costabel]

Alexander K. Hansen wrote:
I don't recall having seen this specific issue discussed before here:
It was mentioned a couple of times, as an example why the "identical 
.deb" policy, if taken too literally, can lead to absurd results (like 
most policies).

As part of its build process the atlas package autodetects the number of 
CPUs, and applies a build flag appropriately.  Unfortunately, the result 
is that the .deb files aren't identical on different machines:

Single processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin  5754496 19 Aug 11:02 
atlas_3.6.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb

Dual processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin26614516 18 Aug 22:17 
scilab_3.0-4_darwin-powerpc.deb

Given the nature of the package, it would probably be a good thing to 
have separate single- and dual-cpu variants (for that matter a 
G5-optimized one would be good, too).  Presumably this would require 
dependencies new virtual packages for the type and number of CPUs.
You would need different variants for G3, G4, G5. Where is the problem 
that is being solved by such a diarrhea of packages? The very idea of 
atlas is that it adapts itself to the machine on which it is supposed to 
run, so it wants to be different on every machine.

--
Martin

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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[Michèle Garoche]

Le 19 août 2004, à 17:42, Martin Costabel a écrit :
The first option uses the screen real estate better. The column  
headers that are somewhat too heavy could be made lighter by replacing  
the two-liners "stableversion" and "unstableversion" by just  
"stable" and "unstable". It is clear at this point that the numbers in  
the columns refer to versions.

Also, as has been suggested, some color would be useful, for example  
like here:

http://perso.univ-rennes1.fr/martin.costabel/fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/ 
test/passwd.html
Much better, though it does not solve the problem of multiple  
maintainers

Would it be possible to have multiple lines at the end in case of  
different maintainers? Not in the table, but as it is now at the bottom  
of the screen.

Michèle



PGP.sig
Description: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ceci_est_une_signature_=E9lectronique_PGP?=

[Fink-devel] atlas build noncompliance

[Alexander K. Hansen]

I don't recall having seen this specific issue discussed before here:
As part of its build process the atlas package autodetects the number 
of CPUs, and applies a build flag appropriately.  Unfortunately, the 
result is that the .deb files aren't identical on different machines:

Single processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin  5754496 19 Aug 11:02 
atlas_3.6.0-1_darwin-powerpc.deb

Dual processor G4:
-rw-r--r--  1 root  admin26614516 18 Aug 22:17 
scilab_3.0-4_darwin-powerpc.deb

Given the nature of the package, it would probably be a good thing to 
have separate single- and dual-cpu variants (for that matter a 
G5-optimized one would be good, too).  Presumably this would require 
dependencies new virtual packages for the type and number of CPUs.

This would open the door to G5-optimized variants of packages, though, 
so it might be a useful option.
--
Alexander K. Hansen
Fink Documentarian
Day Job:  Levitated Dipole Experiment
http://www.psfc.mit.edu/LDX


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Re: [Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[Martin Costabel]

Nigel Stanger wrote:
On 19/8/2004 4:51 PM, Michèle Garoche at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
spake thus:

Also, in the 2nd example, all the point distros (0.7.0, 0.6.3, 0.4.1)
show 'not present' for unstable in the passwd example used.  If I
understand correctly, the binary distributions never have an unstable
version, so the 2nd example will always have extraneous cells showing
'not present'.
IMHO this is A Good Thing™. It would prevent people from asking FAQ#5.7.
It could be solved with an 'NA' text.
Yes, but why even show it in the first place if it can never happen anyway?
People looking at one or two packages in the database (which I would 
guess is what most people do) don't know what can or cannot happen for 
the other packages. It also leaves the possibility open of a future 
unstable bindist that has been discussed on and off.

People who don't know what's going on will then start asking "why is it not
present/NA" and we'll end up needing another FAQ entry :)
There are such FAQ entries, but anyway questions of the type "I know 
this exists and the package database/FinkCommander shows it, but Fink 
doesn't let me install it" are more much more frequent than "Fink shows 
that this does not exists, I would like to know why".

But after having defended some advantages of the second option, I agree 
with this:

I actually much prefer the first option. Each OS version has a single line,
making it very clear what's going on, and no need for unnecessary "not
present" entries. I don't think the first option looks too "busy" at all.
The first option uses the screen real estate better. The column headers 
that are somewhat too heavy could be made lighter by replacing the 
two-liners "stableversion" and "unstableversion" by just 
"stable" and "unstable". It is clear at this point that the numbers in 
the columns refer to versions.

Also, as has been suggested, some color would be useful, for example 
like here:

http://perso.univ-rennes1.fr/martin.costabel/fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/test/passwd.html
--
Martin


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Re: [Fink-devel] node for db42-ssl-shlibs already exists

[Martin Costabel]

Rohan Lloyd wrote:
When I try to do an update-all, I get the error:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> fink update-all
/usr/bin/sudo /sw/bin/fink  update-all
Information about 3872 packages read in 3 seconds.
Failed: Internal error: node for db42-ssl-shlibs already exists
Yeah, everybody is getting this. You can either do what the FAQ 
recommends (yes, there is an FAQ entry...) or

  fink install db42-ssl
--
Martin
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[Fink-devel] Re: Package database webpage layout

[Kevin Horton]

At 2:34 + 19/8/04, you wrote:
Okay, two layout options now. Both now have more familiar (to users)
terms in the headings and clearer structure. The first is just
improvements to the visual layout and headings:
  http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/passwd.html
Looks a bit too busy perhaps.
The second moves back a bit towards the original and keeps clear
"stable" and "unstable" divisions, but logically groups the various
dists:
  http://fink.sourceforge.net/pdb/package2.php/passwd
Looks clean visually and clear content-wise. Maybe this is the way to go?
I like the first version, as it makes a very clear distinction 
between the binary distribution, and the source distributions.  It 
also avoids the "not present" for the unstable packages/binary 
distribution mix.  Looks great.

If you want to list the maintainers for each version, you could add a 
line below each package version, but you would then need to put 
borders on those cells.  This might be a bit busy.

Kevin Horton
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