Re: [Fis] Cho 2016 The social life of quarks

[HowlBloom]

re: quarks
 
the big question for FIS is this: do quarks communicate?  and can  their 
communications be called informational?
 
are quarks more than just the first bits of matter in the cosmos?  are  
they also the first socializers? the first  team-makers?
 
with oomph--howard

Howard Bloom
Author of: The Lucifer Principle:  A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces 
of History ("mesmerizing"-The  Washington Post),
Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The  Big Bang to the 21st 
Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New  Yorker),
The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of  Capitalism ("A 
tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National  Correspondent, The 
Atlantic),
The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos  Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock 
your world." Barbara  Ehrenreich),
How I Accidentally Started the Sixties ("Wow! Whew!  Wild!
Wonderful!" Timothy Leary), and
The Mohammed Code ("A  terrifying book…the best book I've read on Islam." 
David Swindle, PJ  Media).
www.howardbloom.net
Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate  Institute; Former Visiting 
Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York  University.
Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; Founder, Space  Development 
Steering Committee; Founder: The Group Selection Squad; Founding  Board 
Member: Epic of Evolution Society; Founding Board Member, The Darwin  Project; 
Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of  
Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American  
Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and  
Evolution 
Society, International Society for Human Ethology, Scientific Advisory  Board 
Member, Lifeboat Foundation; Editorial Board Member, Journal of Space  
Philosophy; Board member and member of Board of Governors, National Space  
Society.


In a message dated 1/16/2016 11:48:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
lo...@physics.utoronto.ca writes:

Stan et  al - you honour me by asking the question. We know that matter 
(and here I do  not include dark matter or dark energy) is made up of a small 
number of quarks  and gluons. As we go higher and higher energy we will 
continue to create these  "freaks of nature" freaks in the sense that we create 
the conditions for them  to come into existence using our high energy 
colliders. I am sure they  sometimes occur naturally in stars from time to time 
but 
they do not have any  long term effects - they are a passing fancy, a 
novelty, and an amusing one at  that. Perhaps they will help us understand the 
quark gluon interaction. The  analogy I see with the transition from 
prokaryotes to eukaryotes that I sent  to Malcolm was my indulging in 
scientific 
based poetry. BTW I teach an  undergrad course since 1971 called the Poetry of 
Physics (also the title of a  book available on Amazon) to teach physics to 
humanities students without  using math to promote science literacy among 
humanists.  


Another analogy that came to mind was that of proliferation of nucleic  
acids made up of the same 4 elements: C, G, A, and T.  They are the  quarks of 
biology and their chemical bonds the gluons.  


Metaphorically your - Bob Logan  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
__













Robert K. Logan   
 
 
Prof.  Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto   
Fellow  University of St. Michael's College
Chief  Scientist - sLab at OCAD   
 
http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan   
_www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan_ 
(http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan) 
_www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications_ 
(http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications) 









On 2016-01-16, at 10:33 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:


One way to complicate anything is to smash it into bits.   I wonder, Bob, 
if you would comment on this point as a former particle  physicist!  


STAN


On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Malcolm Dean <_malcolmdean@gmail.com_ 
(mailto:malcolmd...@gmail.com) > wrote:


Yes. I don't know enough  about Biology, but I noticed the 3+2 business 
some time ago. I'm  automatically suspicious of theories which are "vexingly 
complex" (QCD)  and only "beautiful" (String Theory) to a few people with 
certain math  backgrounds. But the Two and the Three have been important to 
humans for  thousands of years. I think Nature is actually very simple, but we 
get  overwhelmed and confused by its enormous scales and by our attempts to  
manage observation by (necessarily) creating over-simplified  Objects.


M.



Malcolm  Dean
Member, _Higher Cognitive Affinity Group, BRI_ 
(http://www.bri.ucla.edu/research/affinity-groups/higher-cognitive-function-in-neural-integration-affinit
y-group) 
Research  Affiliate, _Human Complex Systems, UCLA_ 
(http://intersci.ss.uci.edu/wiki/index.php/Malcolm_Dean)   
Member, _BAFTA/LA_ (http://baftala.org/) 
On _Google Scholar_ 
(http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ZopY3eQJ=en) 




On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 

Re: [Fis] Cho 2016 The social life of quarks

[Bob Logan]

Stan et al - you honour me by asking the question. We know that matter (and 
here I do not include dark matter or dark energy) is made up of a small number 
of quarks and gluons. As we go higher and higher energy we will continue to 
create these "freaks of nature" freaks in the sense that we create the 
conditions for them to come into existence using our high energy colliders. I 
am sure they sometimes occur naturally in stars from time to time but they do 
not have any long term effects - they are a passing fancy, a novelty, and an 
amusing one at that. Perhaps they will help us understand the quark gluon 
interaction. The analogy I see with the transition from prokaryotes to 
eukaryotes that I sent to Malcolm was my indulging in scientific based poetry. 
BTW I teach an undergrad course since 1971 called the Poetry of Physics (also 
the title of a book available on Amazon) to teach physics to humanities 
students without using math to promote science literacy among humanists.

Another analogy that came to mind was that of proliferation of nucleic acids 
made up of the same 4 elements: C, G, A, and T.  They are the quarks of biology 
and their chemical bonds the gluons.  

Metaphorically your - Bob Logan
__

Robert K. Logan
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto 
Fellow University of St. Michael's College
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan
www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications

On 2016-01-16, at 10:33 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:

> One way to complicate anything is to smash it into bits.  I wonder, Bob, if 
> you would comment on this point as a former particle physicist!
> 
> STAN
> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Malcolm Dean  wrote:
> Yes. I don't know enough about Biology, but I noticed the 3+2 business some 
> time ago. I'm automatically suspicious of theories which are "vexingly 
> complex" (QCD) and only "beautiful" (String Theory) to a few people with 
> certain math backgrounds. But the Two and the Three have been important to 
> humans for thousands of years. I think Nature is actually very simple, but we 
> get overwhelmed and confused by its enormous scales and by our attempts to 
> manage observation by (necessarily) creating over-simplified Objects.
> 
> M.
> 
> Malcolm Dean
> Member, Higher Cognitive Affinity Group, BRI
> Research Affiliate, Human Complex Systems, UCLA
> Member, BAFTA/LA
> On Google Scholar
> 
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 6:47 PM, Bob Logan  wrote:
> eukaryote came about by two prokaryotes joining together and 5 quark combo 
> can be thought of as a nucleon (3 quarks) and a meson(2quarks) combining and 
> the 4 quqrk state as 2 mesons combining. By this logic perhaps there will be  
> 6 quark beast if 2 nucleons combine.
> 
> 
> On 2016-01-15, at 4:17 PM, Malcolm Dean wrote:
> 
>> Could you specify the relata?
>> 
>> Malcolm
>> 
>> On Jan 15, 2016 5:31 AM, "Bob Logan"  wrote:
>> Hi Malcolm - thanks for this article that supports my notion that my former 
>> field of particle physics is becoming like biology. The 4 and 5 quark combos 
>> represent an analogy of the transition in biology from prokaryotes to 
>> eukaryotes. :-) - Bob
>> 
>> 
>> On 2016-01-14, at 7:39 PM, Malcolm Dean wrote:
>> 
>>> http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6270/217.summary
>>> Science 351(6270):217-219, 15 January 2016; DOI: 
>>> 10.1126/science.351.6270.217
>>> The social life of quarks
>>> Adrian Cho
>>> 
>>> Particle physicists at Europe's CERN laboratory in Switzerland say they 
>>> have observed bizarre new cousins of the protons and neutrons that make up 
>>> the atomic nucleus. Protons and neutrons consist of other particles called 
>>> quarks, bound by the strong nuclear force. By smashing particles at high 
>>> energies, physicists have blasted into fleeting existence hundreds of other 
>>> quark-containing particles. Until recently, all contained either two or 
>>> three quarks. But since 2014, researchers working with CERN's Large Hadron 
>>> Collider have also spotted four- and five-quark particles. Such tetraquarks 
>>> and pentaquarks could require physicists to rethink their understanding of 
>>> quantum chromodynamics, or they could have less revolutionary implications. 
>>> Researchers hope that computer simulations and more collider studies will 
>>> reveal how the oddball newcomers are put together, but some wonder whether 
>>> experiments will ever provide a definitive answer.
>>> 
>>> ...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Fis] Cho 2016 The social life of quarks

[Moisés André Nisenbaum]

Hi, Bob.
I like very much your analogies and  metaphors.
This is a characteristic of interdisciplinary scholars :-)
Rainer Bromme wrote a very intersting chapter in "Practice
Interdisciplinarity" book about the psychology cognitive of
Interdisciplinarity.
And I agree when he say "The discourse of interdisciplinarity enphasizes
the role of metaphors to explain how new insights can arise from the
interaction between different perspectives".
And this is happening many times in FIS list.

All the best.
And thanks all for the very interesting discussions in 2016.


-- 
Moisés André Nisenbaum
Doutorando IBICT/UFRJ. Professor. Msc.
Instituto Federal do Rio de Janeiro - IFRJ
Campus Rio de Janeiro
moises.nisenb...@ifrj.edu.br.





2016-01-16 13:59 GMT-02:00 Bob Logan :

> Stan et al - you honour me by asking the question. We know that matter
> (and here I do not include dark matter or dark energy) is made up of a
> small number of quarks and gluons. As we go higher and higher energy we
> will continue to create these "freaks of nature" freaks in the sense that
> we create the conditions for them to come into existence using our high
> energy colliders. I am sure they sometimes occur naturally in stars from
> time to time but they do not have any long term effects - they are a
> passing fancy, a novelty, and an amusing one at that. Perhaps they will
> help us understand the quark gluon interaction. The analogy I see with the
> transition from prokaryotes to eukaryotes that I sent to Malcolm was my
> indulging in scientific based poetry. BTW I teach an undergrad course since
> 1971 called the Poetry of Physics (also the title of a book available on
> Amazon) to teach physics to humanities students without using math to
> promote science literacy among humanists.
>
> Another analogy that came to mind was that of proliferation of nucleic
> acids made up of the same 4 elements: C, G, A, and T.  They are the quarks
> of biology and their chemical bonds the gluons.
>
> Metaphorically your - Bob Logan
> __
>
> Robert K. Logan
> Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
> Fellow University of St. Michael's College
> Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
> http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan
> www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan
> www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications
>
> On 2016-01-16, at 10:33 AM, Stanley N Salthe wrote:
>
> One way to complicate anything is to smash it into bits.  I wonder, Bob,
> if you would comment on this point as a former particle physicist!
>
> STAN
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Malcolm Dean 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes. I don't know enough about Biology, but I noticed the 3+2 business
>> some time ago. I'm automatically suspicious of theories which are "vexingly
>> complex" (QCD) and only "beautiful" (String Theory) to a few people with
>> certain math backgrounds. But the Two and the Three have been important to
>> humans for thousands of years. I think Nature is actually very simple, but
>> we get overwhelmed and confused by its enormous scales and by our attempts
>> to manage observation by (necessarily) creating over-simplified Objects.
>>
>> M.
>>
>> *Malcolm Dean*
>> *Member*, Higher Cognitive Affinity Group, BRI
>> 
>> *Research Affiliate*, Human Complex Systems, UCLA
>> 
>> *Member*, BAFTA/LA 
>> *On Google Scholar
>> *
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 6:47 PM, Bob Logan 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> eukaryote came about by two prokaryotes joining together and 5 quark
>>> combo can be thought of as a nucleon (3 quarks) and a meson(2quarks)
>>> combining and the 4 quqrk state as 2 mesons combining. By this logic
>>> perhaps there will be  6 quark beast if 2 nucleons combine.
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-01-15, at 4:17 PM, Malcolm Dean wrote:
>>>
>>> Could you specify the relata?
>>>
>>> Malcolm
>>> On Jan 15, 2016 5:31 AM, "Bob Logan"  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Malcolm - thanks for this article that supports my notion that my
 former field of particle physics is becoming like biology. The 4 and 5
 quark combos represent an analogy of the transition in biology from
 prokaryotes to eukaryotes. :-) - Bob


 On 2016-01-14, at 7:39 PM, Malcolm Dean wrote:

 http://science.sciencemag.org/content/351/6270/217.summary
 Science 351(6270):217-219, 15 January 2016; DOI:
 10.1126/science.351.6270.217
 *The social life of quarks*
 Adrian Cho

 Particle physicists at Europe's CERN laboratory in Switzerland say they
 have observed bizarre new cousins of the protons and neutrons that make up
 the atomic nucleus. Protons and neutrons consist of other particles called
 quarks, bound by