Thanks for the ideas!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Susan and Elaine- Thanks for the ideas! I did soak Annie's foot several times in Epson Salts and it looks fine. She seems better today. However, I'm wondering if Elaine's thoughts on trimming too short might be the answer. After Annie was shoed I was amazed how petite her front hooves looked. I had never seen them that little before. Perhaps she was trimmed too short! I'm hoping I can get her to the point of not needing to wear shoes. Looking forward to Woodstock, VT! Annie won't be there this year, but next year for sure! My daughter Maggie will be proudly riding our 4 year old Fjord, Patrick in the Walk-Trot division. This will be her last year in W/T, next year Juniors! She's growing up too fast! Take Care All! Pat McCurdy Cato, NY
Re: Fjord Health
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm fretting about Gunthar right now. [...] he had also grown out > lopsided this last time - causing the bad leg (right front) to toe out > a bit more than it does naturally. [...] Anyway - does the picture > show the hairline running NOT parallel to the ground? Yes, that's one way of looking at it. Rooney's sketch actually shows the leg in flight (with the hairline perpendicular to the leg bones), at the moment of touchdown. The "long" side of the hoof lands first, then the hoof has to "rotate" sideways so the short side can contact the ground (at which point, the hairline is no longer "level"). It's the sudden rotation of the pastern joint that "tweaks" the ligaments, which then calcify as they heal. > Re your other discussion on the slopes - this must mean a round pen > with a track worn around the edge could easily cause the same problem? Certainly, raked level would be better than left sloping, or uneven. However, one hopes that roundpen footing is fairly soft. The problem Rooney was addressing, and that I think I have the equivalent of, is partly due to hard footing (pavement for the draft horses he discussed). However, on sand or loamy soil, if one hoof edge hits early, the footing "gives", allowing that part to dig in, and sort of squishing the footing toward the unsupported side of the foot. There is less rotation, and what does happen is gradual. On hard footing, nothing can give, so the joint has to rotate, fast, causing more sudden strain on the ligaments and their attachments to the bone. Rooney claims that drafty horses are more prone to this, since their bones are thicker. This puts a longer "lever arm" on the rotation (distance from the center of the bone to where the ligaments attach, at its edge), hence requires more stretch from the ligaments. Disclaimer---I'm not a vet or a farrier. However, I spend a lot of time dealing with VERY sloping ground, whereas most of the horsemen around here are "flatlanders". My guess is that most of them never think about anything but hooves that land flat on flat ground or groomed arenas Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: Fjord Health
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ah, the "butler" may be your husband! Seriously, I should think a horse was prone to ringbone and it just came on faster with those trails. My large field is like a cup and my performance horses are always standing , or moving on a hill. The oldest is 17 and was born here. No ringbone. Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Re: animal activist
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike that "water just broke" etc is a classic. Have to send that on to other horsey friends. Non horsey would not understand it, I think!! Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle
Re: Dictatorship impossible with e-mail :)
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi all, It occurs to me that Brian is right about a system of checks and balances - and what better check (and balance) than a passionate group of people who can talk to each other via e-mail EVERY DAY. We don't even have to wait for the town meeting to discuss things. Important Fjord issues get discussed every day - with some controversy sometimes - but at least we're all keeping an eye on and talking about what is best for the breed. Even if we don't always agree. :) And even if we put all kinds of conflicting pressures on the long-suffering BOD. Dare I say that the QH world would be quite different, had there been e-mail lists in the past? :) There are benefits to controversy. It will be up to us as Fjord owners to keep >an eye on the evaluators to see that they are sticking to the standard. >If they are not, we need to alert the BOD, and the BOD needs to take them >aside and say, "Hey, I think you are straying a little bit. Let's get >back in line with the standard." And if they don't, they don't have to >be used any more. That may sound a little funny at first, the general >membership keeping an eye on the evaluators, the "experts", but history >has proven that a system of checks and balances works better than a >dictatorship. The Paint and Quarter Horse judges largely have a >dictatorship; What they say goes. With our system of a standard, and if >we have a committed membership, our horses will be fine. > >Brian Jacobsen, DVM >Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch >Salisbury, North Carolina > > Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
hosting only part of an Evaluation
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For those who have written in saying "don't forget about the performance part of Evaluations being important", I agree. Since ours is a breed whose value comes largely from the fact that they can do a little bit of everything, the performance part of an Eval is every bit as important than the conformation part. As Julie W. noted though, at least it's a start. Conformation is something that every Fjord can be judged at, regardless of training or age or owner ability. And conformation is important too. If the conformation isn't there, there are some things the horse is just not going to be able to do well. Also, to address the valid worry that having conformation-only evaluations may lead us down the path resulting in very eyecatching but not very functional horses, my belief is that with the breed standard on paper that the evaluators are supposed to stick to, it won't happen. Good examples were given of the Quarter Horse breed, etc., but if you think about it, they aren't sticking to a written breed standard. If they were, do you think they would allow these huge horses with tiny feet? These muscle bound hulks that probably can't run a quarter mile? That doesn't make any sense. They aren't sticking to a conformational standard. If anything, they have a standard of sensationalism - how sensational the horse looks. It will be up to us as Fjord owners to keep an eye on the evaluators to see that they are sticking to the standard. If they are not, we need to alert the BOD, and the BOD needs to take them aside and say, "Hey, I think you are straying a little bit. Let's get back in line with the standard." And if they don't, they don't have to be used any more. That may sound a little funny at first, the general membership keeping an eye on the evaluators, the "experts", but history has proven that a system of checks and balances works better than a dictatorship. The Paint and Quarter Horse judges largely have a dictatorship; What they say goes. With our system of a standard, and if we have a committed membership, our horses will be fine. Brian Jacobsen, DVM Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch Salisbury, North Carolina
Re: Fjord Health
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >However, my current suspicion about my Fjords' ringbone is sort of >related to hoof angles. One of the sketches in Rooney's book on >lameness shows a drafty hoof mis-trimmed with one side longer than the >other, and how this can strain the pastern ligaments---at roughly the >sites that my Fjords show bony spurs! Marsha, I'm fretting about Gunthar right now. He has been lame for six weeks. We think it is a bruise (showed two pink spots near the white line when we took the shoes off BUT - he had also grown out lopsided this last time - causing the bad leg (right front) to toe out a bit more than it does naturally. FArrier tried to correct it - but he was still quite lame - now it is almost gone. So... I think/hope it is the bruise - probably caused from being in a wet pasture (Whodini climbs in the 8 foot stock tank and wets down the surrounding area regularly!). Anyway - does the picture show the hairline running NOT parallel to the ground? This is how I understood you tell when a foot is not level side to side. Farrier is coming Friday to put pads on so we can see if that helps - with the assumption that, if the pad cures it, it must be the bruising that is causing the lameness. Re your other discussion on the slopes - this must mean a round pen with a track worn around the edge could easily cause the same problem? Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Giant Ponies
This message is from: misha nogha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> The other day while I was leading out my husbands gelding team some little kids rode by on horseback. They shouted out, "Oh mom! Look at the Giant Ponies, aren't they pretty?" I had to laugh. As much as we insist the Fjords are horses, some people see it differently. I really get a kick out that team. I was looking for my husband who was putting in railroad ties in concrete for some new fencing, and I could not find him. I asked his team who was out to pasture, "Where's your dad?" They took off at once and stopped at the far end, pointing with their ears. Sure enough, they were right. Even though I culdn't see him, they knew where he was at. Mike, I will answer your comment to my husband about customers being an external judgement. He is an assertive no nonsense sort of fellow and seldom reads the list. He did say that our customers were a group he listened to. Out vet too, and some of the other breeders who have come by to have a look. We never had a customer turn us down because of trying to find a better Fjord. In fact, usually they say that they came here after looking at fourteen or fifteen other farms. I also had people want to buy a stallion from me after the NW evaluation. But you know what, I don't sell stud colts, so they said they were going to go to Norway to get a stud. Our only problem is that we only have foals for sale, most people want an older horse and I don't blame them. Foals are a big committment. Also, for people that want a second opinion, I have a vet come out, one of their choice, and look it over and talk to them about the horse and ask questions. If there is a flaw, I never try to hide it. In fact, if the vet doesn't bring it up, I will. I always thought honesty was the best policy. it may not get me very far in the business world. But I can live with myself. Misha
Re: Fjord Health
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Marsha regarding your ringbone problems have you ever thought it > could be your ferrier? I have no idea if bad shoeing could cause this > but it is a variable. The problem is that I've had 3 different farriers over the years. The first one (CJF farrier, recommended by my vet) only worked on one of my Fjords, Nansy. Nansy's ringbone was diagnosed while this farrier was shoeing her. The second farrier only worked on 2 of the Fjords, i.e. never met the 3rd one. My current farrier (one of the pricey guys that local vets refer "corrective" work to) has done them all for 9 years, now. To account for all of my Fjords' ringbone, I would have to "blame" two of the most respected farriers in this area! At this point, the bone spurs are there on x-rays, and changing farriers can't undo that. BTW, my current farrier was trained in Hawaii, on draft horses. Due to all the lava rock there, he learned to leave as much sole as he can, which greatly improved the comfort of all 3 of my horses. (California-trained farriers seem to want to carve out as much sole as they can.) However, my current suspicion about my Fjords' ringbone is sort of related to hoof angles. One of the sketches in Rooney's book on lameness shows a drafty hoof mis-trimmed with one side longer than the other, and how this can strain the pastern ligaments---at roughly the sites that my Fjords show bony spurs! Now, my horses aren't mis-trimmed---but the roads and trails around here are both steep and built with a fair amount of "side-tip", for drainage. I believe that trotting a horse up a hard-packed, tipped surface is functionally equivalent to trotting a mis-balanced hoof on a flat surface! Each of my Fjords has tried to "tell me" that they ought to be walking at the edges of the roads and trails---places that are less-packed, and that are closer to "flat", side-to-side. However, my husband would yell at me not to let them break down the berm of the road that way, and fool that I am, I listened to him, rather than the horses. ;-) Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif. ---
Re: Why evaluations?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/17/99 9:12:24 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Yes, we need to preserve all the variations, not just one type. >> I am with you on this Jean. I thoroughly adore both types of horses in my barn. In a few years, I'll have a matched set of both types . Nikki, the drafty lady, is the one I'm looking at with an eye to do search and rescue with. She's got what it takes. Regardless of if she, or any of her offspring, ever take a blue in an evaluation, if she helps to save even one life, that is worth more to me than a roomful of blues. And who knows? Now that I know Evaluators aren't necessarily prejudice against this type, maybe they'll bring in the ribbons too. Pamela
Re: Why evaluations?
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 11:30 AM 8/17/1999 EDT, you wrote: nice to know >that the drafty look would not automatically knock her out of the running in >evaluations. > >Pamela > I have felt that some of the "Eastern" Fjord owners "looked down their noses" at the draftier "western/Canadian Fjords, that were bigger and heavier. However I remember in that video on the Conformation Clinic with Bob Van Bon (Yes, Brian, I am going to make you a copy) that Van Bon talked about one fine filly having a sire who was a "Draft type": "And her dire is a draft type...Nothing wrong with the draft type' he said. Yes, we need to preserve all the variations, not just one type. Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, another beautiful sunny day...maybe things will dry up! Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tender Feet
This message is from: "Cheryl Beillard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi all .. just thought I'd add my two bits to the discussion on tender feet and shoeing .. How sad, Marsha, to have a chronic problem with all of your horses. I ride and drive my mare, shod, on gravel/sand roads regularly .. in the winter, there was no problem with soreness, but in Spring, she started to mince her way down hills .. on some of our ride/walks (I ride, husband walks, only 1 fjord!) .. I found I couldn't keep up with him at all -- in no time, he'd be out of sight, while we picked our way by inches. Clearly painful for the horse and embarrassing for me, because he started to make disparaging comments (in front of company!) about Soleia's energy levels! Cause for serious discord in the family! My first farrier was a quarter horse man and liked to cut her short, the latest one has let her feet grow longer and hardly touches her sole at all. Still, she was sensitive and stumbling fairly often, particularly in the cart, where we keep a steadier pace. So we put on full pads and guess what, absolutely no soreness or stumbling and lots more enthusiasm in harness and under saddle. I gather there are downsides to pads (comments anyone?), but don't intend to keep them on after the snow flies so I hope to avoid them. I seem to have found the solution to my problem .. hope by pursuing a few more avenues, including a new farrier?, you can resolve some of yours.
Re: pedigree search
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/17/99 7:52:27 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I think the CFA has changed its email address. >> Thanks for sending that website. Just went to it to look up information on Nikki's other babies. It erroneously has Nikki and one of her babies (who I have seen) as yellow duns. Changed her American papers to read brown dun. But I also found that one of her other babies is listed as a white dun. This is interesting. I may want to contact the owners of this baby and see if in fact it IS a white dun, or if somebody made a mistake during registration, as they did listing yellow dun. Pamela
Re: Why evaluations?
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 8/17/99 7:47:34 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Heavy built does not equate with "large coarse head". If a drafty horse has a large coarse head, it is NOT breeding stock in some people's books. >> My Nikki does have a more, shall we say "strong" rather than coarse, head. Not as fine and beautiful of face as Juniper, but looks more like a noble warhorse. From what I've seen of her grown up babies, she throws babies with beautiful heads. The jury is still out on Skylark though. It looks like she may be inheriting the stronger look, as opposed to the refined look of her siblings. No matter to me, as I am keeping them both for my own riding program. Breeding? If Skylark does well enough in evaluations in conformation and performance and I can find a stallion that would match/enhance her other fine points, it's possible. But it is nice to know that the drafty look would not automatically knock her out of the running in evaluations. Pamela
Re: pedigree search
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Bushnell's <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This message is from: "Bushnell's" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Hi, I was going to look up that Kinnikinnick's > pedigree on the CFHA deal > where the pedigree of any of their registered horses > pops up immediately > and couldn't seem to find it, Ruthie, I think the CFA has changed its email address. I think I have the new one somewhere. Let's seeah! Here it is: www.clrc.on.ca Try it and see what you get. Let me know. Mary === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Why evaluations?
This message is from: Mary Thurman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Would > >their drafty/bulky look automatically lower their > scores in an evaluation? > Absolutely not. They may not get real high scores > for the Head but it is > only 10 points. Excuse me, here. "Drafty/bulky" Fjords do NOT have to have ugly heads! Cases in point: Montano, Modellen, Lidaren, plus any number of horses in Norway - including some very nice young stallions in this year's Norwegian evaluations, I might add - and mares like Stina (a Norwegian import), Civian (Dutch, I believe), Line(Norwegian), Modella(Modellen's dam), etc. There are many of them out there. Heavy built does not equate with "large coarse head". If a drafty horse has a large coarse head, it is NOT breeding stock in some people's books. We CAN keep the size/stockiness AND the nice head - but we have to work at it! Mary === Mary Thurman Raintree Farms [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
animal activist
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I don't have a clue how legit this tale is, but ... Foe amusement sake here it is: >This is a condensed version of a short article in the Virginia Horse >Journal about an animal activist who couldn't refrain from "showing her >equine knowledge". Thought you all would get a kick out of it. > >At a civil war re-enactment a horse was pulling a loaded wagon. A woman >who was a self proclaimed animal activist jumped up from the crowd and >began screaming, "I know horses, I was raised with horses, and that horse >shouldn't be made to pull that cart. It's inhumane. She's obviously >pregnant." At that particular time the horse (a gelding) stopped to >urinate. One of the infantrymen, shouted out loudly, "Oh my God, her >water just broke and a leg is coming out!" The whole crowd roared with >laughter and the embarrassed woman quickly and quietly left the grounds.
Re: Evaluations
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:39 AM 8/17/99 -0300, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Reading the List lately, I'm delighted so many breeders want Evaluations to happen on a regular basis around the country. This is a milestone in the maturation of North America Fjord breeders. Yes I find the whole discussion very encouraging too. Today, Holland, Norway, Germany, Belgium, and I believe, Sweden & Denmark all hold Evaluations of youngstock. I can't speak for any other country except Holland, but there the youngsters who are Evaluated are also micro-chipped at the same time, and hair is taken for DNA testing as well. Well you left out the US but I guess with all of the discussion it is obvious. The difference we have is that the horses are required to be DNA typed & microchipped before the evaluation. Part of this is because now DNA typing is required for registration. The horses have to be NFHR registered to be evaluated in the NFHR program. And again, it's important to remember that Conformation Evaluations are NOT HALTER CLASSES. It's not the prettiest Fjord that wins. It's not even a question of winning. It's a question of coming closest to the Approved Breed Standard. That means, it would be possible for every Fjord shown at an Evaluation to be a Blue Ribbon Fjord if every horse shown met the Breed Standard. --- I'll probably get called on that, but that's the way I understand Evaluations. You are correct. It is possible for all of the horses to receive Blue Ribbons. It is also possible that none of them get a Blue ribbon. They could all get red or yellow for that matter. To go back to the Dutch system - They evaluate their youngsters as "A Premie", "B Premie" or "C Premie". There's no "D" level, so it's understood that horses not good enough for the "C Premie" get nothing. Then all the horses in each group are graded one against the other, so you know which yearling in the "A Premie" group placed first, second, etc. We do basically the same thing. The young (under 3) are all grouped together and shown to the audience from the highest scoring to the lowest. Comments are normally made by the evaluators on at least several of the highest scoring ones. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fjord Health
This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:22 PM 8/16/99 -0700, you wrote: >This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Marsha regarding your ringbone problems have you ever thought it could be >your ferrier? That's what I was about to suggest too, Jean. We once had a vet treating a Q.Horse for Navicular (sp?) but as it turned out the butler did it.. no, seriously, it was the farrier; who always trimmed an even ring off of the hoof.. too much on the heel! Ruthie, NW MT
Re:
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 10:23 PM 8/16/99 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: "Joe & Denise Galbraith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi List, I have followed this discussion on evaluations very carefully. Mike I think you do a great disservice to Fjord breeders certainly can't speak for everybody nor would I want to but I find your comment out of line. I am sorry to hear you feel this way. I am only going by what I see on the stallion breeding reports each year. I know quite a few breeders and all are honest people trying to forward this breed. I didn't mean to infer that they were not. I think I probably know more breeders than anyone else does just because of my position as Registrar. I think that the Fjord breed has attracted the MOST amazing respectable breeders there ever could ever be. I can't think of a group of more dedicated people. There isn't many breeds that are as pure as ours is. It is due to the high standards the breeders have placed on themselves. Do you own a stallion & mares with another registry? I only have 2 geldings listed as registered to you. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Evaluation questions
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 10:39 PM 8/16/99 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Mike, everyone, Mike, the email I received gave me the impression due to the wording approval was denied. If this is not the case, This is not the case. Your request was neither approved or denied. then please resubmit our request for the September meeting. It is still on the table as far as I know. If approved, we will then discuss with the members what their desires are concerning conformation/performance, and if absolutely needed, will request financial assistance at the next BOD meeting. Sounds like the right way to go to me. Between phone calls, private emails, and public emails, the information given regarding costs, criteria, age, etc., is not consistent. The costs will NOT be consistent from site to site. That is why each site has to do whatever they can to control costs. The site with the least expense is probably Blue Earth. I think the highest so far was probably the VT one. By the way, does anyone know of a stallion named Glengard? Is he still alive and who is his owner? I had a phone call about him today. Thanks for any help. Yes Glengard's pedigree is as follows: GLENGARD H-G100 H-Z-116-S Foaled May 25, 1986 Bred by BOB Von BON, HOENDERLOO LIDAREN N-1653 ASTRIX N-1822 H-I39 LIV N-13762 BJORGARD H-B180 WESTMAN H-I02 SUNNGARD H-S04 HELEENTJE H-H97 OYGARD N-1300 D-140 OOIGAARD DAMGAARD H-I01 LADY DAMGARD D-1503 HANNY H-H115 TRANUM HEID D-282 E52 HENNY H-I747 TULLE D-2758 He died on 8/2/1994. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CFHA pedigree search
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 07:39 PM 8/16/99 -0600, you wrote: This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> thanks Mike, for finding that CFHA pedigree search URL for me. I was disappointed to see that no lineage was included with individual horses (at least those I saw). I had hoped that ours (NFHR) would include the lineage of each horse but maybe that's too great an undertaking. It sure would be handy! I am not sure what you are asking her Ruthie. To see the parentage of a horse on their site you have to first look up the horse you are interested in. Then scroll down to the section that says: Pedigree Links/Liens de pedigrees: and click on either the sire or the dam. It will then show you their sire & dam. And so on. No it doesn't show it all nicely in a pedigree type of layout. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: CFHA pedigree search
This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 06:29 PM 8/16/99 -0800, you wrote: >This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Ruthie, > >If you clicked on the name (such as Kinnikinnik 2 -186-, who was listed as >a YELLOW by the way) you can then scroll to the bottom of his page and see >who his sire and dam are, and then do the same for them. Thanks Jean! guess I was in too big a hurry per usual. I'd heard the stallion Kinnikinnick was in this area and was just curious. I'll take a second look at that CFHA page. Ruthie, NW MT
Re: Registered fjord type?
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 05:42 PM 8/16/99 -0700, you wrote: This message is from: "Laurie Pittman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Here's something interesting. Yesterday I got an e-mail from someone who visited my site and invited me to visit hers and check out her "fjord type" horse. I checked it out and then asked her if she knew what breed he was. She said she didn't know, but that he is registered with the NFH of GB (Great Britain?) as "true to type."I didn't know that any of the Fjord Registries did this. Any comments Mike? Sure I always have a comment. Unfortunately I don't know much about the NFH of GB. We have never actually had contact with them. Just recently a new Fjord Registry was started up in Scotland though. They have decided to affiliate themselves with us rather than GB though. The FHRS (Fjord Horse Registry of Scotland) has adopted our Rules for Registration. As to Teddy he does look like a brown dun Fjord with a long mane. === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Evaluations
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Rivoire) Hello Everybody from Carol Rivoire at Beaver Dam Farm in Nova Scotia - Reading the List lately, I'm delighted so many breeders want Evaluations to happen on a regular basis around the country. This is a milestone in the maturation of North America Fjord breeders. I'm also pleased people are talking Conformation Evaluations in lieu of both Conformation & Performance. MOST IMPORTANT for young stock (weanlings, yearlings, two-year-olds). It's at these ages that breeders make decisions about their horses; therefore, they need those horses Evaluated by competent Fjord judges. Twenty years ago when we first started in N.H., Bob van Bon, Chief Inspector of Fjords for Holland, told a group of East Coast breeders that the most important thing they could do for the breed was to "EVALUATE & IDENTIFY THE YOUNG FJORDS." Today, Holland, Norway, Germany, Belgium, and I believe, Sweden & Denmark all hold Evaluations of youngstock. I can't speak for any other country except Holland, but there the youngsters who are Evaluated are also micro-chipped at the same time, and hair is taken for DNA testing as well. This does not mean that I think Performance Evaluations are not important. I thorougly agree with Nancy Hotovy's point regarding what has happened to some other breeds that became nothing but HALTER HORSES. In other words, horses that looked pretty in front of a judge, but couldn't do anything or stay sound. --- However, I think that rather than waiting until we're capable of putting on full-blown Evaluations all around the country, we should go ahead with the Conformations Evaluations in as many sites as possible. And again, it's important to remember that Conformation Evaluations are NOT HALTER CLASSES. It's not the prettiest Fjord that wins. It's not even a question of winning. It's a question of coming closest to the Approved Breed Standard. That means, it would be possible for every Fjord shown at an Evaluation to be a Blue Ribbon Fjord if every horse shown met the Breed Standard. --- I'll probably get called on that, but that's the way I understand Evaluations. To go back to the Dutch system - They evaluate their youngsters as "A Premie", "B Premie" or "C Premie". There's no "D" level, so it's understood that horses not good enough for the "C Premie" get nothing. Then all the horses in each group are graded one against the other, so you know which yearling in the "A Premie" group placed first, second, etc. Most likely, Evaluations will remain voluntary in North America (they are in Holland), and having an unevaluated Fjord does not mean that horse is inferior to an evaluated one. (It may not have been possible for that owner to get to an Evaluation). However, it's to his advantage to make every effort, as the owner of the Evaluated Fjord has WRITTEN PROOF POSITIVE of the quality of his horse, while the other owner has only his OPINION. Therefore, I would think most people who are serious about Fjord breeding would make every effort, if at all possible, to have their horses evaluated. The new NFHR ruling that Evaluations can be held on the farm goes a long way toward making them more available to everybody interested. As to individual breeders being capable of evaluating their own horses, there's a danger there. It's a natural tendency to look at a group of horses and pick out the best one. Everybody likes to do that. But, how many breeders have the experience, knowledge, guts and honesty to say, "None of them are any good!" Often, he'll end up choosing the "best of the worst", and honestly thinking he's got a quality Fjord. That's the danger as I see it. "Barn Blindness" can happen to all of us. A clear understanding of the Breed Standard is necessary. But there's more to it than just ticking off points on the Standard. Judging Fjordhorses requires a real feeling for the breed, and an exceptional eye for a good horse. These traits are both innate and acquired. Not everybody posseses them, but not having them doesn't mean you can't be a quality breeder of Fjords. You can be . . . With the aid of Evaluations. Best Regards, Carol Rivoire Carol and Arthur Rivoire Beaver Dam Farm Fjords II R.R. 7 Pomquet Antigonish County Nova Scotia B2G 2L4 902 386 2304 http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/beaverdf
Re: new member
This message is from: Anneli Sundkvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi and welcome Karin, Olle and Sofia! Nice to see more Swedes on the list! We're almost neighbours - I live in Uppsala. I'm sure you will enjoy the discussions! Hälsningar Anneli Anneli Sundkvist Dept. of Archaeology & Ancient History St. Eriks torg 5 75310 Uppsala SWEDEN +46-18-4712082 (work) +46-18-553627 (home)
