Re: More on Colours, Hat Turnout
This message is from: Olivia Farm, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, Interesting discussion. I haven't particularly noticed shorter pasterns in grey Fjords and have seen quite a few. The coloration might indeed create a visually shortening effect, especially depending on the extent of the black fibers around that area. Absence or pronouncement of feathering might also play some tricks on the eyes. As for many of the white duns having the characteristic hindquarters that can be associated to Rei Halsnaes breeding, this is possibly due to the fact that a large number of white duns in North America are close descendants and closely related through the stallion Modellen, a Rei Halsnaes son. Furthermore, with a little more line breeding in his background than his Norwegian mate, Modella and many horses in successive matings, this trait may have been able to carry through a little stronger. As for the kvit color, although not allowed in other registries and generally discouraged, it is not prohibited from registration according to the NFHR rules for registration. While not truly albino, it has been observed that these horses with a double dilution factor have a higher degree of photosensitivity. Now for the hats... If we decide to use blue dun instead of grey, will yellow and blue make green? Better keep shopping. Dan Watanabe Olivia Farm, Inc. http://www.oliviafarm.com (Who is blessed with at least one Fjord of each color and apparently has a lot of shopping to do!) I have been told that most grey Fjords have shorter pasterns. I can also see that many of the white duns tend to have the characteristic hindquarters shape that I associate with Rae Halsnes breeding. The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: coloring
This message is from: Debbie Shade [EMAIL PROTECTED] My horse is tested at aEeN/Cr. We do not try to protect his coat color and he is in the sun all day so the fading comes quickly. The true black is generally only seen when hair grows back in from nicks and scrapes as with the full coat it is a gradual process as a new coat comes in. Without the genetic testing I am sure he would be considered a bay or maybe a brown unless someone knew how to look for a black (muzzle). Cherrie is you are interested I would be glad to email you some pictures of some of his different colors. I would think there are Fjords out there with this genotype. It would be fun to see one. Debbie in NH- This message is from: Cherrie Nolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Very interesting Debbie. So his genotype is aaEeNCr. Does his hair grow in black every spring and fade by fall? This might give us some indication of how a gray dun Fjord with a dose of Cream Dilution might appear. I've never heard of a Fjord with this genetic make-up, and like Eike, I'd be very interested in seeing one. Cherrie 1dr Fjords _ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_ Refresh_messenger_video_072008 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: coloring
This message is from: Cherrie Nolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would definitely be interested in seeing some photos. Thanks! Cherrie --- On Tue, 7/22/08, Debbie Shade [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Debbie Shade [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: coloring To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2008, 7:56 AM This message is from: Debbie Shade [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cherrie if you are interested I would be glad to email you some pictures of some of his different colors. I would think there are Fjords out there with this genotype. It would be fun to see one. Debbie in NH The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Re: More on colours
This message is from: Cherrie Nolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Eike, The terminology for the Cream Dilution colors seems to be highly variable. So, would you call a Grey Fjord with one dose of Cream Dilution (NCr, heterozygote) a Smokey dun instead of Grey/Blue dun? The group with those colors would then be White dun, Yellow dun, and Smokey dun? The double dose/homozygous Cream Dilution colors/terms that I've seen most often are: Red dun plus (CrCr) = cremello; Brown dun plus (CrCr) = perlino; Grey plus (CrCr) = smokey cream. These would be the names of the Kvit colors. If I remember correctly, I was guessing that FG Luna was a perlino, based on his online pedigree. It seems that the Fjord breed lumps these all as Kvit, while other breeds commonly call this group of colors Cremello. I can certainly see these Kvit colors being more sensitive to sun than their black-skinned single dilutes, but their pink/pumpkin skin still has pigment, unlike the skin under white markings, which does burn readily. To me, this is a management concern, not a true health problem. And letting the forelock cover the eyes should help shade the eyes. I run my Fjords on open Kansas pasture 24-7, so I need animals that don't have truly white/pigmentless skin and that are not so dark that they absorb a lot of heat. The Charolais cattle do well down here and I would think they would be equivalent to the Kvit colors. But I'm not up near the Arctic Circle either. Now, if I was back in my wooded Wisconsin homeland, having Kvits in the shady oak savanna pastures would probably work very well. Plus, I wouldn't need to spray paint a Kvit blaze orange during the gun-deer season ;-) I still don't think that the color should be banned from registration, or allowed to be registered only if neutered/spayed. That rule is saying that such horses, out of registered parents, are not suitable to be registered or to reproduce due to one gene combination; a gene combination that, if managed properly, doesn't affect utility. I could still use such a Fjord for logging, farming, trail riding, showing, or whatever the horse is best suited for based on the rest of its genetic makeup. And that Kvit Fjord bred to a brown, grey, or red dun would always produce whites, smokeys or yellow duns, which are legitimate/registerable Fjord colors. Kvits aren't a different breed or out of the standard/natural range of colors in the genetic makeup of the breed. I think they should be allowed, but that it would be important for breeders to be aware of potential management considerations of the color. I realize that this would change a long-standing position of the Fjord registries, if it was even seriously considered. And it is just my opinion, arising from my science background. My college roommate is fluent in Dutch, and a past boyfriend grew up in the Netherlands, so I could probably get that book translated. What is the full title? Cherrie 1dr Fjords --- On Mon, 7/21/08, Eike Schoen-Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Eike Schoen-Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: More on colours To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 11:38 PM This message is from: Eike Schoen-Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cherrie, Debbie's black non-Fjord producing palominos (and buckskins) would be called a smokey (black plus heterozygous ccr), the double dilute / cremello black horse would be called silver dappled in the terminology I am familiar with. --- On the subject of allowing Kvit horses for breeding: The decisions and discussions go way back into the 19th century, definitely before molecular genetics. The white duns (heterozygous) were very popular for a time; naturally that produced a certain quota of Kvit (homozygous ccr). These very pale horses were not popular at all, and were the reason why the idea of a government run stud farm failed in Norway (19th century). Why? I have not read or heard anything exact. Personally I have seen - again in the other pony breeds, over 35 years of following the breed shows in Europe - wide variations of the double dilute phenotype, some individuals with very little pigment and serious sun burn and head shaking problems. Having bred about 5000 calves of all colour shades I know first hand about the difference in sun-related health problems between pigmented cattle and the different stages of diluted pigment cause. I believe there is good reason for keeping some pigment. Any setting of breed standards is narrowing down the variation, that's what a standard is for, and that is how you differentiate one breed from another. Anybody worrying about inbreeding coefficients could mail me privately with the actual examples of where a high inbreeding coefficient caused a problem in the Fjord Horse. I have yet to see them. Eike The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
14 yr old Fjord Stallion for sale
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] HI. We still have our stallion here for sale. The rest are gone and he's been alone all summer. I'd really like to find him a new home soon, and I'm sure he'd like to be with other horses again, though he's been VERY good about being alone (first time in his life) He rides and drives. Has very good manners temperament. No vices. Just shy of 14.2 hands. Brown Dun, reg. name DRAFN. Hasn't been worked in a few years, but you wont have problems getting him back to work. He has a very good work ethic. Hand breeds, and pasture breeds. Good with the babies. He's UTD on everything, has current coggins test. We are located in Central Maine. I do have a few pictures of him if you're seriously interested, contact me and we'll talk. I'd like to get $5,000 for him. Thank you. Aimee Day Garland Me. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) **Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr000520) The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Blue dun with Cream Dilution
This message is from: Cherrie Nolden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Eike, The recent posting of the 14 year old stallion for sale led me to find a grey/blue dun in the NFHR that appears to be heterozygous for Cream Dilution. http://www.nfhr.org/ponyweb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=5313ParentID=1512Page=1Sort= 6 Drafn (brown dun) x Stone Fox Farm's Abby (grey/blue dun) produced a white dun mare, Ylva II. Abby is out of a grey x white dun and since she produced a white dun offspring, she must carry one copy of the Cream Dilution allele (NCr), inherited from her dam. I don't see enough crosses in the pedigree to say anything about red, but Abby must at least be aaNCr. Her owner's info: ST FRANCIS COMMUNITY LUCY POULIN ST FRANCIS COMMUNITY PO BOX 10 E. ORLAND, ME UNITED STATES 04472 (207) 469-3018 Cherrie 1dr Fjords --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Eike Schoen-Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Eike Schoen-Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: More on colours To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 12:21 PM Personally I would be interested in any sightings of a blue dun that has been proven to carry the dilution factor/cremello gene by producing a white or yellow dun offspring from a mating with a brown dun or red dun. Eike The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: coloring
This message is from: Gail Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had a black bay Arabian that was bred to a cremello stallion. They thought they were going to get a buckskin or palomino, but got something that was sort of a grey/black looking thing as a baby. Smokey black? I have lost track of the horse, so do not know what his coat looked like as an adult. It sounds like he would be like Debbie's horse? I would be interested in seeing pictures of that horse. Gail My horse is tested at aEeN/Cr. We do not try to protect his coat color and he is in the sun all day so the fading comes quickly. The true black is generally only seen when hair grows back in from nicks and scrapes as with the full coat it is a gradual process as a new coat comes in. Without the genetic testing I am sure he would be considered a bay or maybe a brown unless someone knew how to look for a black (muzzle). The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
Sad day for the Fjord world
This message is from: Gayle Ware [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just received a phone call from MT. saying that Don Torgunrud passed away. Many of you recall that he and his wife, Heather, purchased Flotren a few years ago. Torgunruds were very active in promoting Fjords and had hosted driving clinics at their place in St. Ignatius, etc. Don will certainly be missed. I don't have details as to when a service will be held. Our sympathies go out to Heather and the rest of the family. Gayle Ware Field of Dreams Eugene, OR www.fjordhorse.com The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
RE: More on colours -- Grey/creme Abby
This message is from: Karen Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eike and Cherrie: When this subject came up, I remembered a discussion a while back on the Fjord list about a grey x brown producing a white. I went searching the archives and found the thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com/msg46196.html I remembered it because I had to stick in my 2 cents worth. :^) The bonus is there is also a link to a photo of this horse, Abby: http://www.mandalafarm.com/gallery.html as well as a description of her color as a foal. Off topic, for all the folks I owe emails to, I'm getting to it. Typing is difficult since my dog scratched the T key off my keyboard. It still works but I really have to jam down on the spring and sharp pieces that lie under the plastic keys. One email, and my left index finger is sore. Cheers! Karen _ Want to help Windows Live Messenger plant more Aussie trees? http://livelife.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=443698 The FjordHorse List archives can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw
