RE: Saddles
This message is from: S Sexton Hmm, I'd say the trainer's girlfriend gets less weight to her comments than your trainer - after all, your trainer would have a better idea how you and your horses move and are conformed. Plus, the saddle fitter probably is wanting to sell you a saddle from her own stock/store... which makes her opinion likely more biased. Just my 2 cents, plus you can always do what Sparrow and I are trying - we're going to demo several different brands of treeless (along with trying some treed XW) saddles and see what WE like and go from there. If you figure to keep an open mind and find what fits your horse and you, who cares what the others think, they don't have to try and ride in it! LOL After all, just think how unhappy your horse would be in an ill fitting saddle, whether it's treed or treeless, and how unhappy you'd be in an ill fitting seat/twist and how that would make riding NO FUN - I try to focus on that and ignore the rest of the comments. I'm getting some heat for trying the treeless from some local dressage club big whigs, but I even tried some of their for sale treed saddles, and they didn't fit us either. So whatever it is that fits us both in the end is what I'll buy. Good Luck! I know it's frustrating and time consuming and costly, hope your hunt goes well and smoothly. StephanieKansas www.sextonstables.com/mares.html Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
desert fjords
This message is from: Tammy Hooper My fjords are doing great in their new environment. I got to know the area well looking for a place for us a year before I had them shipped down from the Pacific Northwest. On the pedigree page my mare is standing in front of a mister in their open air paddock with a sun shade. In the picture of my gelding he is ridden by my brother and I'm on my mare. My side of the family has very limited horse exposure and they wanted a way to easily tell my two apart so I haven't trimmed my gelding's mane for 2 years. We're at an elevation of 3,500 feet so it's a dry heat and breezy. Hay has to be shipped 90 miles from Avondale east of Phoenix where Bermuda grass is grown on irrigated land. My fjords are almost on the ultimate diet pasture and are fed psyllilum as a supplement. I ride in the early mornings when it drops to the 70s. In the late afternoon they are a little sweaty in the shoulder area from the triple digit weather. They are happy and get lots of attention. Tammy Hooper Globe, AZ Sunniva Odin of Asgard Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: colors of fjords and "treeless" saddles
This message is from: Bonnie Morris Hello everyone Karen yes I have studied this chart and color crosses long before I ever got into breeding, but that was not the topic I thought was being address, but the shade variences within the white and when it is actually considered a light brown the color as brought up with earlier posts. I believe someone had asked for more pictures of whites and imput from others who owned them. An interesting topic for disussion. I think as a breeder it is very nice thing to look at all aspects of the breed including the different colors and what can give you the light dark variences with in the individual colors. Yes this is just one part of the breed not important to some, but very interesting to learn about to me. Thank you for shareing Solvieg it will be fun to see what colors and shades emerge. In Norway they actually have different designations for the various shades of brown dun - so you can have a brown or a light brown.��We have bred Viljar to one very light mare, one grey, and one darker mare -�it will be interesting to see if we get darker or lighter offspring out of him, depending on if he throws the cremello or not. � Solveig�Watanabe Bonnie. I would think that as an owner of a breeding stallion with a rare color (white dun), you would know more about breeding this color and what is inhereited (or not) depending on differnt matings. On the NFHR site you can see some info re. coat color definitions in the NFHR Eval Handbook, Sec. III, Page 3. And here is a link to Phil Sponenberg's artcile 'Color in Fjord Horses':http://www.nfhr.com/catalog/index.php?colorgen=1 I have only owned one stallion in my lifetime and he was a brown dun, and my mares are all brown duns, so I was not too pre-occupied with worring about what color the resulting progeny would be. I was more concerned, (and still am) with conformation and character.I do agree that in order to maintain genetic diversity in this breed, keeping the different coat colors active w/in the breed is very important.I hope some of the breeders of white duns can help clue you in.Also, from the pics on your FB page, Lordalen is a nice looking young stallion. I hope you will have him evaluated in the NFHR programthe next time there is an Eval in your area. Karen in blazing HOT central Oregon Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Bob Marshall Saddles
This message is from: S K Thank you so much ToniWe're the same ageYour much more experienced than I am for sure! Happy Riding!! Susan From: Toni To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 5:12 PM Subject: Bob Marshall Saddles This message is from: Toni About Bob Marshall saddles, I have had no problems with them slipping. I have always been a well balanced rider. I believe a lot of the slippage problems have to do with poor balance. That said, it doesn't take very much "off balance" riding to cause a saddle to slip. Having a more dominant side can cause it. (sitting deeper into one hip than another, for example) Then, the opposite leg (stirrup) has to "push" more in order to balance; or, the opposite shoulder or side of the body (rib cage) collapses to counter act the off balance seat. A person may not even feel it, and it may not be very discernable to an observer. But just that little bit can cause a saddle to slip during riding. I am not saying saddles don't slip because of poor fit. I am saying that I believe most slippage problems have to do with balance issues. I am now 60 years old and still ride bareback most of the time. I have a few pilates tapes that I use about twice a week to keep my core strength up. I don't have any more time to excercise than the next person, but I decided it was important to me. I hope I have 30+ more years of riding in me, but one never knows, and at my age, I'm leaving nothing to chance. Toni P.S. Make sure you have a good saddle pad under the saddle. The folks at Bob Marshall can advise you with that. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: colors of fjords and "treeless" saddles
This message is from: Karen McCarthy Bonnie. I would think that as an owner of a breeding stallion with a rare color (white dun), you would know more about breeding this color and what is inhereited (or not) depending on differnt matings. On the NFHR site you can see some info re. coat color definitions in the NFHR Eval Handbook, Sec. III, Page 3. And here is a link to Phil Sponenberg's artcile 'Color in Fjord Horses':http://www.nfhr.com/catalog/index.php?colorgen=1 I have only owned one stallion in my lifetime and he was a brown dun, and my mares are all brown duns, so I was not too pre-occupied with worring about what color the resulting progeny would be. I was more concerned, (and still am) with conformation and character.I do agree that in order to maintain genetic diversity in this breed, keeping the different coat colors active w/in the breed is very important.I hope some of the breeders of white duns can help clue you in.Also, from the pics on your FB page, Lordalen is a nice looking young stallion. I hope you will have him evaluated in the NFHR programthe next time there is an Eval in your area. Karen in blazing HOT central Oregon > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Subject: Re: colors of fjords and "treeless" saddles > From: morrisshado...@aol.com > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 14:45:50 -0400 > > This message is from: Bonnie Morris > > > Regarding the white dun. I have a lovely Stallion Ironwood Lordalen > He has always been very white. Not sure what the exact > criteria would be to qualify as white. Would be nice to here more on the > subject. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Bob Marshall Saddles
This message is from: Toni About Bob Marshall saddles, I have had no problems with them slipping. I have always been a well balanced rider. I believe a lot of the slippage problems have to do with poor balance. That said, it doesn't take very much "off balance" riding to cause a saddle to slip. Having a more dominant side can cause it. (sitting deeper into one hip than another, for example) Then, the opposite leg (stirrup) has to "push" more in order to balance; or, the opposite shoulder or side of the body (rib cage) collapses to counter act the off balance seat. A person may not even feel it, and it may not be very discernable to an observer. But just that little bit can cause a saddle to slip during riding. I am not saying saddles don't slip because of poor fit. I am saying that I believe most slippage problems have to do with balance issues. I am now 60 years old and still ride bareback most of the time. I have a few pilates tapes that I use about twice a week to keep my core strength up. I don't have any more time to excercise than the next person, but I decided it was important to me. I hope I have 30+ more years of riding in me, but one never knows, and at my age, I'm leaving nothing to chance. Toni P.S. Make sure you have a good saddle pad under the saddle. The folks at Bob Marshall can advise you with that. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: colors of fjords and "treeless" saddles
This message is from: Bonnie Morris Regarding the white dun. I have a lovely Stallion Ironwood Lordalen. You can see some pictures of him on my facebook page http://www.facebook.com/#!/bonnie.morris.927 and some videos on my web site morrisshadowmt.com under sales and breeding. I need to get some more current pics up as he is now coming on 5 years this month and has really matured. He has always been very white. He has has some color changes as he has matured he now has dapples, but is still very white. Not sure what the exact criteria would be to qualify as white. Would be nice to here more on the subject. Have a great day! Bonnie Morris Western Wa I'd think that testing the dna, the hair sample, would show the color? Is that not so. I'm no scientist but that was just a thought that came to mind. To me he does look light brown. I remember having a discussion about my Langster, as he was very very light brown, and when you clipped him, he looked white. But no escaping those brown places, the knees, the head. Seems might be a difference in the line down the back but we need some expert owners of white duns to step forward. Show us some comparison pictures. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Saddles
This message is from: S K After much reading, I think I'll stick with the saddle with the tree...I'm not 200 lbs. but have been told by many, many people that these saddles may hurt the horses back..I don't want to hurt my horse's back..even though my trainer says Andy will let me know if it's hurting him...Don't want to put him through that Thanks everyone out there for all the very knowledgeable info! From: "jern...@mosquitonet.com" To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 1:30 PM Subject: Re: Saddles This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com Treeless saddles may not be good for a heavy rider: more of a strain on the horse's back. Light riders are OK Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska > Thank you for the reply LolaI'm very confused at the moment...so many > conflicting answers...My trainer's girlfriend works at fitting horses to their > saddles and she doesn't like the treeless due to the strain on the horse's > backbut my trainer says they're greathm Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: Saddles
This message is from: Gail Russell I definitely agree about the Aussie saddles. So, why don't you just give me your Ricotti saddle that I know I love, and we're done. :) I do have a traditional saddle that I love, and that I have not come out of even in big spins, but there is no slot for my leg and I can only ride a short way before being in agony. You may be correct that a twist is necessary. I did try a Bob Marshall saddle 15 years ago and found my Fjord was totally outraged by it and I found it uncomfortable. I just thought they might have changed. Gail This message is from: Karen McCarthy Balance? "Seat"?Adjustment (placement, pad)?All of this comes into play in either type of saddle. Sorry, Gail I can't buy that these riders stayed in their saddles just b/c they were treeless.That they are good riders, (or just got lucky!) Same w/ Aussie saddles. But please, this is just my personal experience.Not trying to be pro or con. > From: g...@zeliga.com Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Saddles
This message is from: Lola Lahr My Free Form saddle leaves nice even sweat marks in all of the right places. It does not squash down on their backs,and they are never sore. I can't say the same for the treed saddles I've had - even the custom made ones. I do believe that what Gail said about the security of the treeless saddles. I feel like I'm really in a nice "deep" seat, and I can feel it immediately if there is any tension in the back. Yes. even with a saddle pad. My horses who have had bad experiences with saddles (rolling their eyes to the backs of their heads and tensing up when they see a . saddle coming), actually breathed a sigh of relief and relaxed as soon as they figured out that the saddle wasn't hurting "in that spot". If the rider weighs over 200 pounds, treeless saddles are not recommended by the companies that make them. On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 7:58 AM, S K wrote: > This message is from: S K > > > Thank you for the reply LolaI'm very confused at the moment...so many > conflicting answers...My trainer's girlfriend works at fitting horses to > their > saddles and she doesn't like the treeless due to the strain on the horse's > backbut my trainer says they're greathm Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
colors of fjords and "treeless" saddles
This message is from: "Debby" I'd think that testing the dna, the hair sample, would show the color? Is that not so. I'm no scientist but that was just a thought that came to mind. To me he does look light brown. I remember having a discussion about my Langster, as he was very very light brown, and when you clipped him, he looked white. But no escaping those brown places, the knees, the head. Seems might be a difference in the line down the back but we need some expert owners of white duns to step forward. Show us some comparison pictures. I've had many many english saddles, including an english trail treesless. My daughter had gotten one for her hard to fit, sway back, high withered, funky back saddlebred. Fit him good and I rode in it on him and it was comfy, course she'd ridden in it so much it was completely conformed to the horse and to her seat, and her and my seat aren't so different. So me thinks, hmm, my own saddle isn't as comfy as this one, looked them up, hmm, ok, get one for my Langster. Well, why did the new one slip to the outside on turns and working on 20 meter circles, hmmm. Why did this one slip back, hmmm. Well, daughter didn't tell me she'd had her girth so tight, how on earth that horse could breathe. I did get the kind of saddle pad they recommend, but primarely recommended to help those that do not yet have control over their own seats that they bounce on their horses back, not a good thing in a saddle with a tree much less a treeless one. Also many have to use breast straps, to keep saddle from slipping back and I think many use the backstrap and piece that fits under the tail, to keep it from sliding forward. So all kinds of neat gadgets to make it work?! Anyway, liked the idea of having a fitter, was coming through this way, Albion, dressage, measure measure measure horse then me. I only got to use Langsters a few times as he was not right after I got the saddle, very very sad for me, not the saddle, my Lang. I have Yndes, she is down south in training, they prefer to use their own equipment, to not worry about owners things, and they have much tack after working horses for 50 yrs. I think. But I rode in hers many many times, it fit her, it fit me, very nice. My daughter rode Ynde one day long after I'd had the saddle and after asked me what kind of saddle it was, she LOVED it. I do ride with a fairly tight girth but not so they can't breath. Seems she used the neoprene girth, whereas I prefer the leather. It just comes down to what is best for the horse, what fits the horse, first, comfortable for rider yes, but fit for horse, then fit for rider. You can go years and years and spend lots of money over those years buying this saddle and that saddle and it never being right, or you can spend the money and get the right saddle. I can tell you I sold Langs saddle and yes, it was like knew, but I got more back from it than I'd expected. So that is another thing to look at. If Ynde comes back and her back has changed, my saddle fitter, will have me measure, or if I'm lucky maybe she'll be down this way sometime, and they can restuff, change it. Both Lang and Ynde were/are extra extra widejust the stuffing in the panels was different. Another thing to look at fjords, not all but a lot. We think they have long backs but many don't, they just have big butts. One needs to make sure the cantle of the saddle is not sitting on their kidneys. I'm a smaller person, ride in a 16 1/2 seat, but can ride in a 17, which is my husbands size. My daughter is 16 1/2 also, so was perfect for Ynde, who has a shorter back. That’s my unprofessional opinion. Debby Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
RE: Saddles
This message is from: Karen McCarthy Balance? "Seat"?Adjustment (placement, pad)?All of this comes into play in either type of saddle. Sorry, Gail I can't buy that these riders stayed in their saddles just b/c they were treeless.That they are good riders, (or just got lucky!) that the saddle (w/ or w/o a tree) is fitted properly is the real reason.I see reasons for using both types of saddles, but JMPO, I prefer a well fitted "traditonal" treed saddle. Like Lola, I like my legs to drape, not splay. Once someone used an Ansur dressage saddle on one of my fjords + my WB, and that saddle definitely "squashed" their withers, even on the fjord. I rode in a Bob Marshall once and couldn't wait to get out of it. Same w/ Aussie saddles. But please, this is just my personal experience.Not trying to be pro or con. > From: g...@zeliga.com > To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 08:43:35 -0700 > Subject: RE: Saddles > > This message is from: Gail Russell > > > Has anyone tried a Boz saddle? > > As to the Bob Marshall...my neighbor just encountered a bear while trail riding. Her horse, and that of her friend spun around and tried to run away. Both riders stayed on. They attribute that to their treeless saddles. One has a Bob Marshall, and the other has a treeless saddle made in Canada. Don't know the name. Maybe someone else does? > > Gail Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Saddles
This message is from: S K Thank you for the reply LolaI'm very confused at the moment...so many conflicting answers...My trainer's girlfriend works at fitting horses to their saddles and she doesn't like the treeless due to the strain on the horse's backbut my trainer says they're greathm From: Lola Lahr To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Sent: Monday, July 9, 2012 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Saddles This message is from: Lola Lahr I use the FreeForm treeless saddles (Action Rider Tack is a great place to buy them - or used are great too- check on an endurance site). They have a more of a twist so the seat is not as flat and wide as the Bob Marshall. I tried the Bob Marshall and loved it, but my mare's back was too wide and flat so it felt like my legs were sticking straight out to the sides and I couldn't really use them ;-) My FreeForms fit ALL of my horses, so I only need enough saddles for the number of riders going. I find that with a good saddle pad, girth, and proper tightening - just like a treed saddle- they don't slip any more than any other saddle, and I grab the front of the saddle to get on. Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Skogheims Viljar
This message is from: "Olivia Farm, Inc." Hi Jean and Everyone! Just as there are various shades of brown duns, ranging from very pale to extremely dark (with brown instead of white in the mane), there are different shades of the white duns as well. We have three white duns on our farm and two are the more typical, extremely light whites - Silvia and her colt by Tico, OFI Lys - and Viljar is definitely more of a cream. He is the exact shade of his dam, also a white dun. I also have to point out that I don't always bathe my horses before they get a photo shoot :). In Norway they actually have different designations for the various shades of brown dun - so you can have a brown or a light brown. We have bred Viljar to one very light mare, one grey, and one darker mare - it will be interesting to see if we get darker or lighter offspring out of him, depending on if he throws the cremello or not. Solveig Watanabe Olivia Farm http://www.oliviafarm.com/ (509) 258-7348 "This message is from: jern...@mosquitonet.com He is a lovely Stallion, but he looks more like a very light brown dun rather than a white dun! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska with white dun Stella II and her very light brown dun son, Bjorken." Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
Re: Saddles
This message is from: Kim Manzoni I use a treeless saddle, the Bob Marshall saddles, on my horses. We love them. They do not slip if you use a good saddle pad and tighten them properly. However, instead of using the horn to boost yourself up into the saddle, you have to use the horses mane. When Titan is old enough to ride we plan on buying a third Bob Marshall. : ) Yes, we love them. -Kim in Md...dying from the heat and flies. From: S K To: "fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com" Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2012 8:36 PM Subject: Re: Salt, Sweat, etc. This message is from: S K Thanks for all the infoI was told the treeless saddles slip alot ...do you find this to be so? That's all I need is to land on the ground...I'm a novice, got my dream babies later in life...so need a really good saddle,,,your so right, my horse comes first...I want him to be comfortable...My trainer told me I could use my saddle for about an hour at a time...but when we do start going out, I will be out more than an hour. Susan Important FjordHorse List Links: Subscription Management: http://tinyurl.com/5msa7e FH-L Archives: http://tinyurl.com/rcepw FH_L Shirts: http://tinyurl.com/8yky94l
