Re: Harrison Fjord and riding -update
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks to all who gave me input on this. Many suggested Harrison would benefit from further training. The trainer who gives my daughter lessons has worked with Fjords in the past. She is willing to take Harrison on, and since she is also teaching my daughter to ride that will work out really well. Harrison is off for 3 months of gentle boot camp. :^) Tamara Rousso Fallbrook CA www.algedifarm.com
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Actually a broken mouth (2 piece) snaffle is MORE severe than a solid mouth bit , mullen or low port. The single joint pokes them in the roof of the mouth or roles over to poke down into the tongue..and the shape of the bit doesn't permit room for the tongue to move and the horse to swallow. So they fight it and lug on it. Interesting thing: while the Glory bits work fine for my Fjords, when I went to a Myler with the solid low wide port mouth, elbow cheeks, Bjorken no longer curles up BEHIND the bit like he would do with the Glory or mullen mouth pelham on occasions. the shape of the mouthpiece permits him to swallow. I use the first slot below the mouthpiece but might move the rein down to the next slot on an exciting group trailride, or if a child were riding him. Jean in hot and sunny Fairbanks, Alaska, another 90 dgree day! >What worked best for him was a low-port Kimberwicke, with the reins on >the "curb" slot. >I'd have to wholeheartedly second this notion... This is the bit my girls >prefer, and even on the top slot, they are not pulling and fighting the bit like >they did with a broken mouth snaffle. > Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 6/19/2004 4:36:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What worked best for him was a low-port Kimberwicke, with the reins on the "curb" slot. I'd have to wholeheartedly second this notion... This is the bit my girls prefer, and even on the top slot, they are not pulling and fighting the bit like they did with a broken mouth snaffle. Amy Amy Evers Dun Lookin' Fjords Redmond, OR Fjord [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks Janet. Very good point. My twelve year old is on the short side, so getting her legs around Harrison's big ol' barrel is challenge enough. Leg cues can be a bit more difficult. Tamara On Sunday, June 20, 2004, at 10:16 PM, Janet wrote: A carefully selected bit that could give a little more control with very little 'power' from the hands was needed. Thirteen year olds sure can very in size and strength and maybe by the time the rider is 15 her needs will be quite different
RE: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Another item of tack I would use to assist a very young rider, or anyone w/ limited upper body strength is a side check.There is nothing more frustrating to see than someone being dragged along as the horse grazes. The side check can be a leather one adapted from a driving harness, or just a piece of baling twine properly rigged up. If you combine this with a mild leverage bit (Glory, Kimberwick) with the side check attached to the mildest part of the bit or the top of the cheeks, and the reins on a med setting, you may have more luck...but first & foremost, don't expect a green rider to be able to handle a situation of riding in company with a green or un-proven horse; do more slow work at home first. JMO Karen McCarthyGreat Basin Fjords :: Carson City, Nevadahttp://www.picturetrail.com/weegees Original Message Follows From: "Janet" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seeking the help of a trainer that can work with child and horse is the best. I'd like to ad one thought that was not yet mentioned here, and that is matching equipment to the needs of the rider, especially younger riders who are too short or not strong enough to use their body as effectively as an adult. When my kids were little, they just did not have any strength or the balance to use it, to elicit the kind of response we needed from the horse. A carefully selected bit that could give a little more control with very little 'power' from the hands was needed. Security.
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Kerry Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ---Tamara, Sarah Pinney is an awesome trainer from Miramar Stables. She can be reached at 760-599-4000. My young fjord did awesome at today's show. She won the medal's classes and placed very well in English and Western. She even did well in Texas barrel racing too. All our fjords are completely safe on trails, show great and excellent even bareback with small children. They drive, ride and play with cows. Sara is an exceptional trainer! Good Luck! Kerry Ferguson GD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This message is from: GD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > In my experience, getting a horse to be lighter in > your hand comes > from driving them from behind using your seat and > legs; they need to > get off their forehand and carry their own weight. > A stronger bit in > a horse without more advanced training only gives > you and extra > emergency brake but doesn't teach them to willingly > respond to the > bit. > > And as Brigid and Jean said, working with quicker > lighter aids and > then releasing as soon as they respond. I have just > started (7 > weeks) riding a Fjord that I am leasing and have > found that you can't > just pull back on them because they will win the > pulling match. I am > learning more finesse in using my seat and quick but > clear aids with > my hands. Sit yourself down deep in the saddle and > sit up tall - I'm > still learning to do this well. Then very little > firm pulls, wait > for a response, and repeat if no response, still no > response shorten > your rein and plant your hands but don't continue > pulling back hard, > more quick pulls if needed. > > The horse I am riding had virtually no breaks 7 > weeks ago and we have > been doing a lot of walk halt walk halt transitions > and he is getting > much quicker at stopping. I do them every time I > ride and will not > continue until I am sure we have good sensitive > brakes. I have also > found it is easier to get him to be sensitive in his > mouth if he is > going on a circle than going straight. Once the > stops are good then > when I want him to slow down, I just pretend I want > him to stop and > just before he does, ask him to move on (basically > the beginning of a > half halt). Without even learning "dressage", you > can teach your > daughter how to do this. Kids learn this real well > if you tell them > to "think that you want him to halt (they have to > think it for it to > work), start doing the halt, then change your mind > last minute and > gently ask him to move on". For non dressage > people the concept is > by slowing him down and starting the halt, he rolls > more weight back > onto his hind legs and then when you ask him to move > forward he uses > his hind end more for power and (hopefully) gets > lighter in his mouth. > > Another thing to try, when he is heavy on the bit, > is to loosen the > rein a little on one side and then take it back up. > You might have > to do it a few times in a row and then every few > minutes. Sometimes > you have to loosen it a lot and then take it back > up, but only one > side at a time not both. If he has nothing to lean > on, he will have > to lift his own head. These are quick little moves > but it often > wakes them up and lets them know you won't be > responsible for holding > their heavy head up. > > It is good your daughter is working with a trainer > because she will > be more comfortable and secure out in groups and on > the trail if she > has lots of practice in a controlled situation. > Horses can become > such idiots once they are upset by something and > seem to totally > forget all that you have worked on! > > A harsher bit in "unskilled" hands probably will > make him less > reliable and more evasive, in my humble opinion and > experience. > > It is so great that you bought her a horse - boy did > I want one as a > kid. I took lessons every week but didn't have my > own horse until I > was an adult. I am searching for my perfect Fjord > to own and hope he > will take good care of me out on the trails and in > the ring! I'll > have to watch for that fear of perpetually moving > objects (like > Arabs). Where I ride, the Arabs are all very old > and slow moving! > > I have learned so much in just a few weeks reading > this list - thanks everyone. > > Genie in Ann Arbor, MI > > > > One little girl has a Morgan/Arab cross and she > stayed on him about > >5 minutes and said "no way, he is too much work". > A 13 year old boy > >that also owns a Fjord then rode him for the rest > of the games and > >just loved him, but did say he was very heavy on > the bit. And again > >the same comment by one of my friends that rides > after she was on > >him. Her words "he makes you carry him around the > ring". Harrison > >was being ridden in a broken snaffle. One of the > suggestions was to > >get a harsher bit. I'm really a softie and no
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Kerry, Although I think the trainer we are using is very knowledgeable I know that her time is limited because she has a small baby. I would like Kerry's phone number. Do you know if she takes horses in for training? Miramar is too far for me to trailer weekly. Not to mention how much I hate freeway driving. You can send me her phone number privately if you would rather not post on the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Thanks for the suggestion, Tamara On Sunday, June 20, 2004, at 09:23 AM, Kerry Ferguson wrote: This message is from: Kerry Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --Hi, I live in San Diego and own two wonderful fjords. We have a great trainer! She is at Miramar stables. Ours fjords are totally safe on trail. My 7 year old daughter rides bareback and doublewith her friends on our fjord mare on 4 hour trail rides. All our fjords drive double and single, do dressage and English, Western Pleasure, work cattle, jump and go camping. They are extremely versatile and so safe! Also, they have been shown successfully at large National shows and smaller shows in all disciplines. We even drive them out on trail under the fighter jets. I owe most of their success to my trainer Sara Pinney. She is so gentle, highly knowledgable and is very professional. She even shows and trains Andulusians in Portugal. She loves fjords and totally knows how to get great results with them. I know she would be great for Harrison and your daughter. Kerry Ferguson - Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jerry, Thank you for your candor. I agree that a trainer is needed to step in here and I think you are correct when you say we should not put my daughter on Harrison for the trails. She was in fact riding him around our property until he decided he was going to eat, she couldn't stop him, and he headed to the hay shed in his usual manner by going under a solar panel and in the process scraping dd off. Needless to say she is not riding him outside of an arena anymore. I have had Harrison for 6 months and all I know of his past training is that he was sent to an Amish trainer for 4 months of driving and saddle instruction. I am in the process of looking for a "first grade" instructor for Harrison, but I am very picky. I have heard way too many stories of horses being abused by trainers to get instant results. In fact one of the stories Harrison's seller told me was that she was having someone work with him to get him to "not be so sluggish". The trainer (and I use the term lightly) hooked Harrison up to his pick up and drove him around and around until Harrison planted his feet and refused to budge. In the meantime I thank you and everyone else who is taking time to give me some ideas about this. Tamara Fallbrook CA On Saturday, June 19, 2004, at 11:03 PM, jerrell friz wrote: This message is from: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> primarily trained as a cart horse. --- Hi Tamara, Excuse me if I am a little short on words here , and not saying all the right things. First, there is no difference in the training of a carriage, or saddle horse.. I would not even think about hitching this horse if I could not ride him, This horse does not respect the rider!!. You can put a 5k gold bit in his mouth, he doesn't know what is expected of him. MORE BIT IS NOT THE ANSWER In other words I really doubt if he has graduated from training 101 [ driving or riding, doesn't matter] Please get a qualified trainer to work with him, before you put a youngster on him. AND, stay in an arena, until he is safe to take out on the trails. The more he gets away with the harder it is to correct. TRAILS are not for the beginner to start training horses. [Although I have seen it done a lot by old experienced packers.] Tamara, if I remember you just acquired this horse, [a few months ago] I doubt if you know all the background about him. Here is an example of what I have been trying to describe I have been working with a 12 year old Arabian gelding on and off for the last 2 years, and am now just getting him going, [driving and riding] mostly driving. [ right 2 years, lots of sweat] This gelding was given about 5 years of training by a very qualified trainer, he won a lot of blue ribbons, but they were all in the ring [training and shows]. Once, you got him outside he was scared of his shadow, would freak out at anything. [ he is stalled 7/24's, certainly not helping] Doesn't matter what the breed is, horses are flight animals, they must learn to trust their handler, and or rider. Other issues are health, I find that ulcers are common in horses that are in hard training for a long period of time. And the pain becomes unbearable it seems to over ride everything. [maybe, th
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Kerry Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --Hi, I live in San Diego and own two wonderful fjords. We have a great trainer! She is at Miramar stables. Ours fjords are totally safe on trail. My 7 year old daughter rides bareback and doublewith her friends on our fjord mare on 4 hour trail rides. All our fjords drive double and single, do dressage and English, Western Pleasure, work cattle, jump and go camping. They are extremely versatile and so safe! Also, they have been shown successfully at large National shows and smaller shows in all disciplines. We even drive them out on trail under the fighter jets. I owe most of their success to my trainer Sara Pinney. She is so gentle, highly knowledgable and is very professional. She even shows and trains Andulusians in Portugal. She loves fjords and totally knows how to get great results with them. I know she would be great for Harrison and your daughter. Kerry Ferguson - Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This message is from: Tamara Rousso > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Hi Jerry, > > Thank you for your candor. I agree that a trainer > is needed to step > in here and I think you are correct when you say we > should not put my > daughter on Harrison for the trails. She was in > fact riding him around > our property until he decided he was going to eat, > she couldn't stop > him, and he headed to the hay shed in his usual > manner by going under a > solar panel and in the process scraping dd off. > Needless to say she is > not riding him outside of an arena anymore. I have > had Harrison for 6 > months and all I know of his past training is that > he was sent to an > Amish trainer for 4 months of driving and saddle > instruction. I am in > the process of looking for a "first grade" > instructor for Harrison, but > I am very picky. I have heard way too many stories > of horses being > abused by trainers to get instant results. In fact > one of the stories > Harrison's seller told me was that she was having > someone work with him > to get him to "not be so sluggish". The trainer > (and I use the term > lightly) hooked Harrison up to his pick up and drove > him around and > around until Harrison planted his feet and refused > to budge. In the > meantime I thank you and everyone else who is taking > time to give me > some ideas about this. > > Tamara > Fallbrook CA > > On Saturday, June 19, 2004, at 11:03 PM, jerrell > friz wrote: > > > This message is from: "jerrell friz" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > primarily trained as a cart horse. > > > > --- > > Hi Tamara, > > Excuse me if I am a little short on words here , > and not saying all the > > right things. First, there is no difference in > the training of a > > carriage, or saddle horse.. I would not even > think about hitching this > > horse if I could not ride him, This horse does > not respect the > > rider!!. > > You can put a 5k gold bit in his mouth, he > doesn't know what is > > expected > > of him. MORE BIT IS NOT THE ANSWER In other > words I really doubt if > > he > > has graduated from training 101 [ driving or > riding, doesn't matter] > > Please > > get a qualified trainer to work with him, before > you put a youngster on > > him. AND, stay in an arena, until he is safe to > take out on the > > trails. > > The more he gets away with the harder it is to > correct. > > TRAILS are not for the beginner to start training > horses. [Although I > > have > > seen it done a lot by old experienced packers.] > > > > Tamara, if I remember you just acquired this > horse, [a few months ago] > > I > > doubt if you know all the background about him. > > > >Here is an example of what I have been trying > to describe > > I have been working with a 12 year old > Arabian gelding on and off > > for > > the last 2 years, and am now just getting him > going, [driving and > > riding] > > mostly driving. [ right 2 years, lots of sweat] > This gelding was given > > about 5 years of training by a very qualified > trainer, he won a lot of > > blue > > ribbons, but they were all in the ring [training > and shows]. Once, > > you got > > him outside he was scared of his shadow, would > freak out at anything. > > [ he > > is stalled 7/24's, certainly not helping] > Doesn't matter what the > > breed > > is, horses are flight animals, they must learn to > trust their handler, > > and > > or rider. Other issues are health, I find that > ulcers are common in > > horses that are in hard training for a long period > of time. And the > > pain > > becomes unbearable it seems to over ride > everything. [maybe, the > > cause for > > bolting, and or runaways] > > --- > > > > > > He was a > > typical Fjord about big noises, crossing wooden > bridges..? > > Typical > > Fjord?? No horse,,, even a Fjord, is born > ready
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thank you for your insights Genie. I will try and pass this on to my daughter and talk to the trainer about trying some of it also. It did make me remember though about one interesting thing we found with Harrison. You are right that you can't win the pulling match, but it turns out he KNOWS the word "whoa". Before the word is all the way out of your mouth he is putting on the brakes. DD has to remember to say it though instead of just pulling... Tamara Fallbrook CA On Saturday, June 19, 2004, at 11:12 PM, GD wrote: And as Brigid and Jean said, working with quicker lighter aids and then releasing as soon as they respond. I have just started (7 weeks) riding a Fjord that I am leasing and have found that you can't just pull back on them because they will win the pulling match.
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Jerry, Thank you for your candor. I agree that a trainer is needed to step in here and I think you are correct when you say we should not put my daughter on Harrison for the trails. She was in fact riding him around our property until he decided he was going to eat, she couldn't stop him, and he headed to the hay shed in his usual manner by going under a solar panel and in the process scraping dd off. Needless to say she is not riding him outside of an arena anymore. I have had Harrison for 6 months and all I know of his past training is that he was sent to an Amish trainer for 4 months of driving and saddle instruction. I am in the process of looking for a "first grade" instructor for Harrison, but I am very picky. I have heard way too many stories of horses being abused by trainers to get instant results. In fact one of the stories Harrison's seller told me was that she was having someone work with him to get him to "not be so sluggish". The trainer (and I use the term lightly) hooked Harrison up to his pick up and drove him around and around until Harrison planted his feet and refused to budge. In the meantime I thank you and everyone else who is taking time to give me some ideas about this. Tamara Fallbrook CA On Saturday, June 19, 2004, at 11:03 PM, jerrell friz wrote: This message is from: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> primarily trained as a cart horse. --- Hi Tamara, Excuse me if I am a little short on words here , and not saying all the right things. First, there is no difference in the training of a carriage, or saddle horse.. I would not even think about hitching this horse if I could not ride him, This horse does not respect the rider!!. You can put a 5k gold bit in his mouth, he doesn't know what is expected of him. MORE BIT IS NOT THE ANSWER In other words I really doubt if he has graduated from training 101 [ driving or riding, doesn't matter] Please get a qualified trainer to work with him, before you put a youngster on him. AND, stay in an arena, until he is safe to take out on the trails. The more he gets away with the harder it is to correct. TRAILS are not for the beginner to start training horses. [Although I have seen it done a lot by old experienced packers.] Tamara, if I remember you just acquired this horse, [a few months ago] I doubt if you know all the background about him. Here is an example of what I have been trying to describe I have been working with a 12 year old Arabian gelding on and off for the last 2 years, and am now just getting him going, [driving and riding] mostly driving. [ right 2 years, lots of sweat] This gelding was given about 5 years of training by a very qualified trainer, he won a lot of blue ribbons, but they were all in the ring [training and shows]. Once, you got him outside he was scared of his shadow, would freak out at anything. [ he is stalled 7/24's, certainly not helping] Doesn't matter what the breed is, horses are flight animals, they must learn to trust their handler, and or rider. Other issues are health, I find that ulcers are common in horses that are in hard training for a long period of time. And the pain becomes unbearable it seems to over ride everything. [maybe, the cause for bolting, and or runaways] --- He was a typical Fjord about big noises, crossing wooden bridges..? Typical Fjord?? No horse,,, even a Fjord, is born ready to be hitched or saddled. Again,, sorry to be so blunt, if I were a doctor, my bedside manners would be rather poor. [ have seen way too many problems, because we skipped the first grade.] Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca.
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: GD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In my experience, getting a horse to be lighter in your hand comes from driving them from behind using your seat and legs; they need to get off their forehand and carry their own weight. A stronger bit in a horse without more advanced training only gives you and extra emergency brake but doesn't teach them to willingly respond to the bit. And as Brigid and Jean said, working with quicker lighter aids and then releasing as soon as they respond. I have just started (7 weeks) riding a Fjord that I am leasing and have found that you can't just pull back on them because they will win the pulling match. I am learning more finesse in using my seat and quick but clear aids with my hands. Sit yourself down deep in the saddle and sit up tall - I'm still learning to do this well. Then very little firm pulls, wait for a response, and repeat if no response, still no response shorten your rein and plant your hands but don't continue pulling back hard, more quick pulls if needed. The horse I am riding had virtually no breaks 7 weeks ago and we have been doing a lot of walk halt walk halt transitions and he is getting much quicker at stopping. I do them every time I ride and will not continue until I am sure we have good sensitive brakes. I have also found it is easier to get him to be sensitive in his mouth if he is going on a circle than going straight. Once the stops are good then when I want him to slow down, I just pretend I want him to stop and just before he does, ask him to move on (basically the beginning of a half halt). Without even learning "dressage", you can teach your daughter how to do this. Kids learn this real well if you tell them to "think that you want him to halt (they have to think it for it to work), start doing the halt, then change your mind last minute and gently ask him to move on". For non dressage people the concept is by slowing him down and starting the halt, he rolls more weight back onto his hind legs and then when you ask him to move forward he uses his hind end more for power and (hopefully) gets lighter in his mouth. Another thing to try, when he is heavy on the bit, is to loosen the rein a little on one side and then take it back up. You might have to do it a few times in a row and then every few minutes. Sometimes you have to loosen it a lot and then take it back up, but only one side at a time not both. If he has nothing to lean on, he will have to lift his own head. These are quick little moves but it often wakes them up and lets them know you won't be responsible for holding their heavy head up. It is good your daughter is working with a trainer because she will be more comfortable and secure out in groups and on the trail if she has lots of practice in a controlled situation. Horses can become such idiots once they are upset by something and seem to totally forget all that you have worked on! A harsher bit in "unskilled" hands probably will make him less reliable and more evasive, in my humble opinion and experience. It is so great that you bought her a horse - boy did I want one as a kid. I took lessons every week but didn't have my own horse until I was an adult. I am searching for my perfect Fjord to own and hope he will take good care of me out on the trails and in the ring! I'll have to watch for that fear of perpetually moving objects (like Arabs). Where I ride, the Arabs are all very old and slow moving! I have learned so much in just a few weeks reading this list - thanks everyone. Genie in Ann Arbor, MI One little girl has a Morgan/Arab cross and she stayed on him about 5 minutes and said "no way, he is too much work". A 13 year old boy that also owns a Fjord then rode him for the rest of the games and just loved him, but did say he was very heavy on the bit. And again the same comment by one of my friends that rides after she was on him. Her words "he makes you carry him around the ring". Harrison was being ridden in a broken snaffle. One of the suggestions was to get a harsher bit. I'm really a softie and not crazy about that idea. Is he like this from being a driving horse? Can he be trained to do both well? What kind of bit do most of you use? thanks in advance, Tamara Rousso Fallbrook CA www.algedifarm.com
RE: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: "jerrell friz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> primarily trained as a cart horse. --- Hi Tamara, Excuse me if I am a little short on words here , and not saying all the right things. First, there is no difference in the training of a carriage, or saddle horse.. I would not even think about hitching this horse if I could not ride him, This horse does not respect the rider!!. You can put a 5k gold bit in his mouth, he doesn't know what is expected of him. MORE BIT IS NOT THE ANSWER In other words I really doubt if he has graduated from training 101 [ driving or riding, doesn't matter] Please get a qualified trainer to work with him, before you put a youngster on him. AND, stay in an arena, until he is safe to take out on the trails. The more he gets away with the harder it is to correct. TRAILS are not for the beginner to start training horses. [Although I have seen it done a lot by old experienced packers.] Tamara, if I remember you just acquired this horse, [a few months ago] I doubt if you know all the background about him. Here is an example of what I have been trying to describe I have been working with a 12 year old Arabian gelding on and off for the last 2 years, and am now just getting him going, [driving and riding] mostly driving. [ right 2 years, lots of sweat] This gelding was given about 5 years of training by a very qualified trainer, he won a lot of blue ribbons, but they were all in the ring [training and shows]. Once, you got him outside he was scared of his shadow, would freak out at anything. [ he is stalled 7/24's, certainly not helping] Doesn't matter what the breed is, horses are flight animals, they must learn to trust their handler, and or rider. Other issues are health, I find that ulcers are common in horses that are in hard training for a long period of time. And the pain becomes unbearable it seems to over ride everything. [maybe, the cause for bolting, and or runaways] --- He was a typical Fjord about big noises, crossing wooden bridges..? Typical Fjord?? No horse,,, even a Fjord, is born ready to be hitched or saddled. Again,, sorry to be so blunt, if I were a doctor, my bedside manners would be rather poor. [ have seen way too many problems, because we skipped the first grade.] Regards, Jerry Friz, Anderson, Ca.
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I like the 3-part snaffle bits for riding. They have different names like French link, Dr. Bristol, dog bone -- all slightly different in shape but same design. In case we haven't noticed, Fjords have very large and strong necks ;-) It helps to condition them to give to the bit, whichever bit you choose. There are a million varieties of this "natural horsemanship" exercise. John Lyons writes about it a lot. I do as follows: when I first mount, I let the horse stand for a while (nothing like trotting off while you're halfway in the saddle). I reach down one rein and take up contact, pulling the rein out in an "opening" way. Many Fjords, especially those who've been ridden/driven with heavy hands, or ridden very little, will respond by pulling the other way. Oops! Here's where I cheat. I make sure the horse knows I have a treat in the hand on that side. I again take up the contact and ask for a give. If he gives, I click and treat. Note: I don't treat just for turning the head, he must respond to the bit and understand it's a cue. This may take many repetitions, but the results are wonderful! The only caveat is that you must ride with! light hands from then on -- the clever Fjord will remember that if he responds immediately, he'll get a release and maybe even a goodie -- heavy hands can cause a regression to the wrestling match. Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.brigid.clickryder.com
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OK, Do change the bit..But not to a "harsher" bit! Get rid of the broken snaffle. does it have shanks by any chance? I use the "Glory" bits or Mylers on my Fjords. All go very well in the Glory butterfly, which technically is a driving bit but also works well for riding. I have now gotten a Myler elbow bit, with a 6" low wide port (solid) mouthpiece for big Bjorken. Harrison probably takes at least a 5 1/2" or 6" bit for starters. Even a mullen mouth Pelham (5 1/2 inch" or 6") would be better than the snaffle especially for smaller kids. what I like about the two ring Glory butterfly is that you can use the higher ring for a direct snaffle effect or put the rein on the lower ring for more control out on the trail. Same with the Myler Elbow bit only it has more options. most Fjords tend to have low pallets and large tongues..and a snaffle with a single joint will poke them in the roof of the mouth, or poke painfully dowhn into his tongue.. No doubt he did learn to lug on the bit when he was driven, but you CAN change that..by starting over essentially, teaching him to give to the bit with an instant release when he does. But a child is not going to do that..so a pelham or Kimberwick with mullen mouth would work If you can't afford a Glory bit or Myler. Here is a website showing the Glory bits http://www.CarriageDrivingEssentials.com/bits.shtml Glory metalworks also make a Glory riding bit.I'll give you Rayl Jonson's phone # if you want to roder a Glory. Myler bits: http://www.CarriageDrivingEssentials.com/myler.shtml Here is the Myler butterfly with Low Wide Port.http://www.CarriageDrivingEssentials.com/images/cde158.jpg If you do want to get a Myler to fit him try BIG HORSE Feed and Farm Supply, in Temecula, California (your neighborhood?) (909)676-2544 33320 Highway 79, Temecula, CA. They have a lot in stock to fit larger horses! For a less expensive solution I suggest: 05-0311 KMSS Mullem Mouth Eggbutt Pelham Bit in the Libertyville catalog: http://www.saddleshop.com/eng/engset.htm #05-0311 comes in 5 1/2" and 6" and is only $27.50 Now a disclaimer! I am sure Beth Beymer, Karen McCarthy or Pat Holland or others are much more qualified to advise you on training! As far as his bucking in that situation,he probably got hyped by that other horse and thought "YEHAW!! lets go! A new situation, strange surrondings,other horses, etc. He needs to go back to some basics and if you do use a "snaffle" try a Myler comfort snaffle..but no shanked snaffles please! Jean in Hot and sunny Fairbanks, Alaska, 85 degrees NOW, will get to 90+ today, sunny for almost 22 hours! Much too hot for us Alaskans! >another horse came uncorked and came bucking and twirling at Harrison >which led Harrison to start crowhopping and spinning and unseated my >daughter. She was fine, but only Harrison and one other horse reacted >to the horse that uncorked. Although a friend was watching and she >said she didn't blame Harrison for reacting because the horse was >headed right for him. So I'm thinking no big deal. Yes? BUT after >that happened he was a real stinker in terms of resisting the bit. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Saturday, June 19, 2004, at 04:26 PM, Marsha Jo Hannah wrote: This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sleepy appears to be afraid of Arabian horses---or any other breed with very "expressive" or unusual movement (like Pasos). Near as I can tell, this is due to a mismatch between Fjord body language and that of other breeds. Thank you for all of your comments Marsha. That is a very interesting observation about your Fjord and other hot breeds. I think that may explain some of Harrison's behavior. He also was previously owned by a woman with a Rottwieller that chased and nipped at him. He has already proven around our place that he is very alert to any danger coming his way. It took him several months to not worry about our dogs. So, when he encounters one of these "killer Arabs" on the trail, he sometimes does a rollback and exit stage left, without warning me that it's coming, whereupon I get "left sitting in midair"; THUD. I will let my daughter know she is in good company with the Fjord "leave 'em on the trail" maneuver. When I spoke to a trainer about this, she said the solution was to "give him lots of little jobs to do"---lower his head, step to one side, give to the bit, back a step, forward a step---basically keep him so busy listening to me that he didn't have time to think about what the other horse was saying to him. I have a tendency to be a passive rider, That is totally my daughter. She is only 12, but not at all interested in competition. She just loves horses and wants to sit on them and enjoy. I will pass along your whole email to her! What worked best for him was a low-port Kimberwicke, with the reins on the "curb" slot. That is very interesting. The trainer we are working with has experience with Fjords, but does not own one herself. She said we would look at a number of possibilities, so I am copying off suggestions from the list. Thank you so much for yours. Tamara Rousso Fallbrook CA www.algedifarm.com
Re: Harrison Fjord and riding - help!
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Harrison has been primarily trained as a cart horse. He is close to > 15hh and a drafty build. He has been ridden some but does not have the > fine tuning. [...] riding club's overnight camp [...] He was a > typical Fjord about big noises, crossing wooden bridges, getting close > to flags flapping and that sort of thing (i.e. no reaction), but > another horse came uncorked and came bucking and twirling at Harrison > which led Harrison to start crowhopping and spinning and unseated my > daughter. She was fine, but [...] after > that happened he was a real stinker in terms of resisting the bit. [...] > comment by one of my friends that rides after she was on > him. Her words "he makes you carry him around the ring". Harrison was > being ridden in a broken snaffle. One of the suggestions was to get a > harsher bit. I'm really a softie and not crazy about that idea. Is he > like this from being a driving horse? Can he be trained to do both > well? What kind of bit do most of you use? I've experienced similar things with my Fjord gelding, Sleepy---he's 14.3, out of "foundation American" stock, i.e. a bit drafty. His early training was mostly draft-style driving, although he was also packed and ridden western. I mostly used him for trail riding. Sleepy appears to be afraid of Arabian horses---or any other breed with very "expressive" or unusual movement (like Pasos). Near as I can tell, this is due to a mismatch between Fjord body language and that of other breeds. Fjords tend to be somewhat subtle in their interactions amongst each other---a nose wrinkle and an eyebrow lift speak volumes. When they encounter a breed that's always in motion, like some endurance-bred Arabs, it's as if the other horse is always SHOUTING threats at them! Sleepy is low man on the totem pole around here, so has had lots of experience at getting his body out of harms way when someone offers to kill him. So, when he encounters one of these "killer Arabs" on the trail, he sometimes does a rollback and exit stage left, without warning me that it's coming, whereupon I get "left sitting in midair"; THUD. When he has been exposed to a particular individual horse for a while, he seems to "compile" that animal's body language, and reacts less to such "unintentional threats". It's not clear whether repeated exposure to many horses would cause him to generalize about all other-horse body language. When I spoke to a trainer about this, she said the solution was to "give him lots of little jobs to do"---lower his head, step to one side, give to the bit, back a step, forward a step---basically keep him so busy listening to me that he didn't have time to think about what the other horse was saying to him. I have a tendency to be a passive rider, and she wanted me to become more "in command" of him. At the time, I didn't understand what she meant; after years of reading John Lyons' magazine, her comments now make sense to me. Sleepy also had a tendency to hang on my hands in a snaffle bit. I think part of it is that the draftier Fjords are built somewhat on the forehand, so their default is to lean into the bit. Certainly, draft-style driving (I've seen photos of Sleepy in a plow hitch) encourages that. Correct carriage-style driving seeks to rebalance the horse, as does ridden dressage work. It can be done, but it will be work, for both the rider and the horse. My neighbor (who was giving us "trail riding lessons") had me try all of my bits on Sleepy during an arena lesson. With a jointed snaffle, or a mullen-mouth Pelham on the snaffle ring, he hung on my hands. The curb ring of the Pelham (and other curb bits that we tried) was too much leverage---he lightened up, but sucked back out of contact. What worked best for him was a low-port Kimberwicke, with the reins on the "curb" slot. My neighbor said that, "according to the book", it made no sense to put that much bit on a horse that really didn't want to go forward, but that was what he travelled best in, so that's what we used. Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 15 mi SW of Roseburg, Oregon
Re: Harrison Fjord
This message is from: "jgayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi, "Horses sure are funny" is true but there also seems to most often be a dominant one. And the others seem to accept. Jean G Author "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 46-49 Send $20 to: PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: Harrison Fjord
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Tamara, you might put a divider in the tub, or put > two feeders out so she > gets her share, or he will get too fat and she will > be skinny! I actually do have two feeders in the pen. I just couldn't get one of the horses to stroll on down to the other feeder, so this morning I drug the other tub up so both tubs were side by side. Then I filled both with the same amounts and had Harrison on an inside corner and the mare on the outside. " Now", I thought to myself, "even if tries to eat out of both the mare can still get in". Ha! Outsmarted by a horse! He just used his big ol' body to get between her and the tubs so she was blocked out. I drug the tub back down several yards away and that time the mare had the good sense to follow me. Horses sure are funny. Tamara Sunny California = ***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^*** If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things. Rene Descart
Re: Harrison Fjord
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> My old mare, Stella does this..I feed them in a long bunk style feeder...she will be down at one end, four fjords in a row. Somehow she manages to get a great pile of hay, sort of slides it down to her end! If I scatter the hay on the ground (snow) she will run around and stuff gobs of it in her mouth, vacuuming it up to get as much as she can! I call her "The Hoover!" Tamara, you might put a divider in the tub, or put two feeders out so she gets her share, or he will get too fat and she will be skinny! Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska, bright outside with a full moon shining on the snow..+5 today. > What a surprise! I soon found out why the hay was >all on Harrison's side. Apparently he didn't want to >share, so he was putting his head in the tub to the >far side and using his nose to push the hay all the >way over to his side where he could then use his head >to block the mare from getting any. Good looking and >smart!! . > >Tamara > >= >***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^*** >If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least >once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things. Rene Descart > Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Harrison Fjord is home
This message is from: "jgayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lois I bred for and raised my mare Sis here on my place. I also had a 1o year old and six year old, both geldings. When she reached six she became dominant over them and was herd boss. Some years later I had a trainer come to the place, Sis had always been trained here with the boys present or taken elsewhere. Point is I had not realized she was herd bound. When she was 13 I had decided for her sake and mine I should find a home for her as I am thinking of moving. She had not been ridden for at least five years. It was when Tracy came to bring her back to being ridden , that she exhibited stress and screaming when removed from the boys as we shut the arena doors. They were in the field next to us. Tracy is an excellent horse trainer and employs Lyons methods of kind persistence. The first time was a bad scene with this large horse trying to bull doze past Tracy to the doors. Tracy remained calm, jerking the rope halter when the horse tired to move away and eventually rode her, Sis was a good ride but had her head cocked to the door and she paid minimal attention to her rider. She would cry out etc. About the third day of this Sis was better and the doors were left open with one horse in the field who would not come in the arena. This was a challenge and the behavior reverted almost completely back with Tracy again expecting Sis to stand looking at her and not at the horse in the field. It took about twenty minutes before Tracy got her reluctant attention and she was a good ride. But I noted her eye seemed always looking outside. Each day she improved until she took no notice of the horses outside. She also accepted subservience to Tracy and could be easily caught in the field with the others. It can be done. Jean Author "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 46-49 Send $20 to: PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: Harrison Fjord is home
This message is from: "vz/bossmare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This is from my experience upon the arrival of a 12 year old mare who had had several homes previous to mine. The first week she was perfect. She was willing to be led anywhere, was fine being turned out alone and she was very responsive to my husband and myself and very kind with visitors. She had excellent manners. The second week that all went downhill. She started to lug ahead on the leadrope and was a bear to lead anywhere away from the barn. She developed this far away look in her eye which meant she was no longer paying enough attention to us. About this time I turned her out with my other mare and this made things MUCH worse. She became almost uncontrollable away from either the presence or sight of the other mare including in the barn in crossties if she couldn't see the other mare's stall. If we rode her we had to make sure the other mare was in an adjacent paddock, otherwise she was completely out of touch with our requests. It took about 3 months for her to finally feel secure in her new home. The clinginess to the other mare was still there but had lessened and she could be trained to respond correctly. A little bit of clicker training helped. Then the other mare had to be put down and I purchased a second Fjord. I do think the breed is magnetized to each other. They formed an instant bond and both became hysterical. The new mare was more complacent but also a bit more stubborn in her ways. After owning the first mare for two years and the second for one year I donated both to a handicapped riding program not because of problems with them (I adore both of them) but because we are selling the farm and I wanted to assure them a good home. The same scenario played itself out. Initially the mares were in stalls across the aisle from each other in a barn with 12 other horses including 3 Fjords but the staff had to move one of my mares to the far end of the barn or there was no peace when one or the other was removed from her stall. Now four months later both mares are working out well in the program and the first mare who was the most problematic at first is now considered one of their most steady mounts. They have not put both mares in the same class yet so we don't know how that will work out. If I knew then what I know now I would have delayed turning the mare out with the other mare until she had bonded and was totally obedient to us. I'm not sure this would have prevented the problems or just delayed them but her bond to the other mare completely eclipsed her interest and responsiveness to us. From various posts I've read on this list I do not think this Fjord clannishness was unique to just my horses and I wonder if others on the list have found that keeping their Fjords separate from other horses helps or makes things worse. In 30 years of owning, breeding and boarding horses I had never run into such an obstinate and hysterical tendency toward being herdbound in any other horse. It's as if it's a natural tendency that goes haywire. Upon reflection I realized that horses I'd had that never displayed the trait were homebreds that were raised from birth to adult so it could be a security issue in change of home, barn, environment. Lois in NJ with killer windchill winds...don't miss the barn work today! - Original Message - From: "Tamara Rousso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:47 PM Subject: Re: Harrison Fjord is home > This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > often people fail to > > take into account what a traumatic change it must be > > for a horse to leave > > their familiar circumstances and friends, and travel > > to a place of strange > > odors, sounds, and surroundings! (where NOTHING is > > the same) It takes TIME > > for them to make the adjustment and too often people > > expect too much too > > soon. > > > > Ruthie, nw mt > > I do believe that it takes any animal, be it horse, > dog or whatever, time to adjust. But with Harrison > Fjord he is so complacent how will we know when he > feels adjusted? The first day here he walked past the > llama and goat pens like he'd spent his whole life > with them and into his pen where he immediately got > down and rolled like he was glad to be home! Any > guidelines for how long to give him? > > Tamara > > = > ***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^*** > If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least > once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things. Rene Descart
Re: Harrison Fjord is home
This message is from: Tamara Rousso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > often people fail to > take into account what a traumatic change it must be > for a horse to leave > their familiar circumstances and friends, and travel > to a place of strange > odors, sounds, and surroundings! (where NOTHING is > the same) It takes TIME > for them to make the adjustment and too often people > expect too much too > soon. > > Ruthie, nw mt I do believe that it takes any animal, be it horse, dog or whatever, time to adjust. But with Harrison Fjord he is so complacent how will we know when he feels adjusted? The first day here he walked past the llama and goat pens like he'd spent his whole life with them and into his pen where he immediately got down and rolled like he was glad to be home! Any guidelines for how long to give him? Tamara = ***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^***^^*** If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things. Rene Descart
Re: Harrison Fjord is home
This message is from: "ruth bushnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Hi Tamara, > Boy, it sounds like he will have a great home, lots of attention, I bet he > is gobbling it up! give him a chance to settle and get used to his new > home Jean That is an excellent suggestion Jean... I think too often people fail to take into account what a traumatic change it must be for a horse to leave their familiar circumstances and friends, and travel to a place of strange odors, sounds, and surroundings! (where NOTHING is the same) It takes TIME for them to make the adjustment and too often people expect too much too soon. Ruthie, nw mt
Re: Harrison Fjord is home
This message is from: Jean Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Tamara, Boy, it sounds like he will have a great home, lots of attention, I bet he is gobbling it up! give him a chance to settle and get used to his new home and all of you and he will be your great buddy, especially for the kids. These geldings are great! Altho I love my mares, they are more opinionated I think! The geldings are "steady Eddies". Jean in Fairbanks, Alaska cloudyl, chance of snow and -10F > The kids had >bought him a new halter and lead which they >immediately put on him and led him around his pen. >What a gentleman! I couldn't ask for nicer ground >manners. Then he got fed and groomed, and groomed, >and groomed... We are just so happy! >I'm still pinching myself to believe it is real. Jean Ernest Fairbanks, Alaska mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Harrison Fjord is home
This message is from: "jgayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Great Tamara, you have a gentleman there. Jean Author "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 46-49 Send $20 to: PO Box 104 Montesano, WA 98563
Re: Harrison Fjord is home
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 1/12/2004 8:06:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We are just so happy! I'm still pinching myself to believe it is real. I know that feeling, Tamara! I felt it the day I brought my Boys home. Hell, I've felt it every day since :-) / )_~ /L/L Brigid Wasson SF Bay Area, CA www.Brigid.Clickryder.com
Re: Harrison
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] << Harrison was sold Friday to a man who came to Libby looking for a Fjord. >> Michelle, it seems like Harrison was just born and many of us were applauding the name. How can he be old enough to go on already? I know he is, just don't know where that time went. Gail in LC
Re: Harrison
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 06:43 PM 6/25/99 -0400, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] okay Mike just plain Harrison sounds good to us, We could have called him Indiana Jones LOL. All is well here and will send in the papers soon Michele Noonan I think that will be a much more fitting name for him. I was dreading the follow ups like Jerry Fjord, Betty Fjord... You get the picture. ;-) === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Harrison
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] okay Mike just plain Harrison sounds good to us, We could have called him Indiana Jones LOL. All is well here and will send in the papers soon Michele Noonan
