Re: weed control
This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 10:07 AM 02/06/2000 -0800, you wrote: >This message is from: Martha Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >This is just a bit of information for the list. I am from Montana and we >have a Weed Control Association here and I think there will be other >organizations in other areas. All of your questions can be answered by >them, . >Montana State University is doing extensive research on grazing >practices, competitive planting, use of bio-control (insects) and use of >chemical. I work with the state of Montana and MSU on a new invaders >project so I have been involved in some of the research. Weeds are not >something to be overlooked! >If you have any questions I'll be happy and try and answer them and if I >can't I'll find out who can, but do remember that the best answers will >come from local organizations. >Take care, >Martha Smith > >from that little bit > of heaven called > Montana Hi Martha, I believe that was my quote at the top of your post.. nice to hear from a fellow Montanian! Don't know what part you're from, but here in the NW it would be impossible to "overlook knap weeds!" There is hardly not a mountain trailhead that doesn't sport their purple flowers in profusion! Probably compliments of radical logging practises using corporate machinery on clearcutting, consequently scarifying the ground for weed sowing. Clearcutting is a despicable logging practise condoned by USFS. It looks to me like we started too late on this one and aren't focusing on the biggest offenders. As for contacting weed associations, university, extension, etc. .. been there, done that. I will not use chemicals. There is some reason why cancer is increasingly widespread and until they figure it out I can't think of a better reason NOT to use them! (that's my soapbox). I will look forward to hearing from you. We tried controlling Knap Weed with water and all they do is "lay low"... they get real short, flatten out like pancakes, but the first real hot day they suddenly shoot up and desperately throw seeds... whoa, just kidding! I'm going to try the vinegar idea Ursula, appreciate all the input on this. I'm afraid this weed issue has only just begun. Ruthie, NW MT
Re: weed control, evaluation
This message is from: "Mike May, Registrar NFHR" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 11:26 AM 2/6/00 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: Jon & Mary Ofjord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Evaluations: Does the Canadian Fjord Horse Association (CFHA) have evaluations? If so, can one get an NFHR registered horse evaluated there? Is it possible to get a CFHA horse evaluated at an NFHR evaluation? As far as I know, the only North American Evaluations are the ones held by the NFHR. I have never heard of any in Canada. (except for a Dutch Keuring) Mike: Am I correct in assuming that the two registries recognize each others horses? The NFHR recognizes the Canadian registrations and will transfer a Canadian horse's registration to the NFHR if it meets all of the rules and regulations of the NFHR. Most do. Mike === Norwegian Fjord Horse Registry Mike May, Registrar Voice 716-872-4114 FAX 716-787-0497 http://www.nfhr.com mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: weed control, evaluation
This message is from: Jon & Mary Ofjord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thistles are related to artichokes which taste pretty good to me. Thistles are also edible to most humans ( not just Euell Gibbons ). So in some instances it is possible to eat your way to healthier pastures! Evaluations: Does the Canadian Fjord Horse Association (CFHA) have evaluations? If so, can one get an NFHR registered horse evaluated there? Is it possible to get a CFHA horse evaluated at an NFHR evaluation? Carol: As you live in Canada, how do you have your horses evaluated and registered? NFHR, CFHA, or both? Just curious as I live very close to the Canadian border and if all things were equal it may be more convenient. Mike: Am I correct in assuming that the two registries recognize each others horses? Jon
Re: weed control
This message is from: Martha Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I've long been opposed to the use >of chemicals but the Knap Weed is so bad here we need to do something soon. >Sure hope someone responds to this one. This is just a bit of information for the list. I am from Montana and we have a Weed Control Association here and I think there will be other organizations in other areas. All of your questions can be answered by them, whether it is a question of type of weed, competitive planting, grazing practices that help control weeds or misgrazing practices that promote the growth of the weeds themselves, and yes they can answer the chemical questions. It is very important to get 'local' information before you consider using a chemical. There are many things to consider like will that chemical work on the weed in question, persisitance in the soil, water table location If you don't have a local weed shop or control association you can contact your local extension agent or department of agriculture. Montana State University is doing extensive research on grazing practices, competitive planting, use of bio-control (insects) and use of chemical. I work with the state of Montana and MSU on a new invaders project so I have been involved in some of the research. Weeds are not something to be overlooked! In the long run they can be economically devastating to agriculture and livestock production. This is a huge concern for Montana and should be for other states, too! Whoops, sorry about the soapbox, but we have a small cattle and horse (yes, we have Fjords) ranch in Western Montana and weeds are something that we are very concerned about. If you have any questions I'll be happy and try and answer them and if I can't I'll find out who can, but do remember that the best answers will come from local organizations. I will be gone for the next week working my other job which deals with disasters and emergencies so be please be patient about getting a reply. Take care, Martha Smith from that little bit of heaven called Montana
Re: weed control
This message is from: Alison Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Two words: Weed Whacker! If you have weeds in the field you want gone (not poisonous, they need to be pulled), feed hay on these spots. The ponies will eliminate your problem pretty quick, especially things like nettles and thistles, which they love.
Re: weed control
This message is from: "Jean Gayle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have often wondered as I mow down the buttercups that invariably grow in the poop piles in the pasture and the wild daisies all over the pasture, if the horses are then eating the dried up pieces along with the grass. Rather than spray any poisons I mow and trim five acres. It just seems something that has to be done, not a terrible chore. Of course if it was more than five acres I might whine a bit, like my lawn tractor does. It is also a good way to break up manure piles. Noisy though. I do feed hay or alfalfa all year. Jean Jean Gayle Aberdeen, WA [Authoress of "The Colonel's Daughter" Occupied Germany 1946 TO 1949 ] http://www.techline.com/~jgayle Barnes & Noble Book Stores
Re: weed control
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The prudent use of an herbicide such as Roundup [...] is the ticket > for really persistant weeds. [...] yellow star thistle). [...] apply > it at the optimum time, [...] daytime temps are getting to 70 > degrees, and there is no immenent threat of rain. I use Roundup for a variety of situations---green stripe down the middle of our steep, one-lane road (a fire hazard on modern exhaust systems), "firebreak" right around buildings, and spot-spraying yellow star thistle (poisonous to horses, in sufficient quantity). Judging by how well these areas re-vegetate the next year (i.e. I have to spray again each spring), I'd say there isn't much residual effect. Roundup seems to do its thing under fairly wide conditions. I've successfully used it 2 hours before rain (made the mistake of believing the weather forecast that it wouldn't rain until the next day), and at temperatures in the 60's (when things grow fastest here). It does require that the vegetation not have water on it (i.e. I have to wait for the morning fog/dew to burn off), and that it be on the vegetation long enough to "dry" and be absorbed before the rain starts. Very useful tool. > Every spring, when the thistles were "ripe" he moved the horses out > and then sprayed the pastures, allowing the stock to return after a > week. He said they went straight for the limp thistles and LOVED > them. No colics or other nasties resulted, One word of caution on spraying, which also applies to weed chopping. Some plants are more poisonous when dead than when alive. Many of these apparently taste bad enough when green that equines don't eat them. However, once these plants start to wilt (spray kill, mowed, whatever) they become more palatable, hence more dangerous. Know thy weeds, and keep your Fjords (had to get that in somehow) and other valuable livestock off of "treated" areas until you've had a chance to remove, bury, burn, or otherwise dispose of the offending plants. I tend to keep equines off of treated areas for a week, for another reason. It takes time for the herbicides to be fully absorbed and do their job of "choking" the plant, down to its roots. If greedy Fjords "mow" the area too soon, they'll remove the spray while it's still in the plant leaves, negating its effect. Spraying is hard enough work that I'd rather not have to redo it! Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif.
Re: weed control
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:35 PM 2/4/00 -0800, you wrote: This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> There is a neat alternative to spraying which I have not tried personally, but I have heard allot of good things about, and that is a backpack propane weed torch. Cooks 'em! Spinach anyone??? Sounds great for fencelines with steel posts. Perhaps you coulsd put metal collars on wooden/plastic ones? Hey, maybe you could get an old army surplus flame thrower! Yeah the smell of napalm early in the morning. A ;-)
Re: weed control
This message is from: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> my husband puts pelleted pre-emergent around areas we want to keep weed free. it really works. the pellets are like fertilizer size and the animals don't seem interested in it. i know it is a chemical, but yu could keep the away for a few days and it should be ok. i think it has to be watered or rained on after application. i am sure a nurseryman or woman (pc) would be able to fill you in. denise
Re: weed control
This message is from: Mike May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 06:28 PM 2/4/00 -0500, you wrote: This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Has anyone used a salt solution to control weeds around fence lines? You know how a salt block will kill all the grass and weeds around it eventually? Well, I've been reluctant to start spraying with chemicals, so I've been wondering if a salt solution could be put in a sprayer and used around fence lines for the same purpose. Anyone know? I think you would have to really put a lot of it on Brian. Around here they pour it on our roads all winter long. In the spring the grass next to the roads comes right back up just as nice as can be. It does seem to burn off some pines & firs and that sort of thing if they are real close to the road though. Mike
Re: weed control
This message is from: "Denise Delgado" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> brian, it'll work, but you have to use a lot of salt. denise
Re: weed control
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think Round-Up is Glyphosphate. That is an auxin, the plant equivalent of our enzymes (correct term, for things like thyroxin,etc.?). It causes the plant to try to grow a foot a day, and it burns out in the attempt. The chemical is naturally present in plants, but at low, I would guess microgram, levels. You have just dumped a megadose of the growth regulator chemical on it, and it can't take it. It is apparently irritating to animals in concentrated form if gotten in the eyes or ingested, but I doubt it would have much effect in the normal, diluted form. And being water-soluble, would wash into the ground with the first rain. BTW, it breaks down, does not poison the ground for future planting. Merek
Re: weed control
This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 06:51 PM 02/04/2000 -0800, you wrote: >This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Frankly, I'd rather use something like Roundup, which "fiddles" the >plants' growth mechanisms so they "grow themselves to death". . That description is too close to the theory of how cancer works, for my liking. Recent findings of the skin's ability to absorb as much as a third (I believe it was) of something applied, certainly warrants caution in handling chemicals. I can't help but think a solution with strength enough to wilt plants might wilt me as well. =) Ruthie (the sticks)
RE: weed control
This message is from: "Julia E. Pollock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> It is NOT true that "organic people" have considered labeling Roundup an "organic chemical." That is a myth that I have heard promulgated by the vineyard people in my area of northern California. Roundup's so-called "active" ingredient is glyphosate which has been implicated in several cancers and it's end products, which the EPA is not required to test nor does Monsanto have to list on the packaging, are harmful. This was from a report done several years ago by a study in Santa Rosa. Santa Rosa's city parks have pretty well phased out the use of Roundup and San Francisco city parks phased it out totally several years ago. We need to get away from the idea that everything has to have a pristine sense of order and "weeds" are bad. Personally I would rather have some weeds (which I do and neither I nor my dogs or cats or horses mind) than harmful synthetic chemicals poisoning me and my animals and all the wildlife in the area. Julia Pollock, Sebastopol, California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of GAIL RUSSELL Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 6:19 PM To: fjordhorse@angus.mystery.com Subject:Re: weed control This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think the problem would be that you would have to put so much salt on that it would essentially poison the surrounding areas if you relied on this over time. I understand the concern about chemicals - have never used them myself - but I've actually considered using a paint brush or a kind of wick to put Round up on. At least it is not sprayed into the air that way. And I've been told that even the organic people have considered labelling it an organic chemical. Not sure if that is true. As to fence lines - I am contemplating using a serious kind of weed control fabric under fences so I won't have to weed eat five times in one season. Also on the far side of the pipe panels so the horses are not tempted to try to reach through the fence. If you want to know more about the fabric let me know. I use is under my round pen to improve the footing in wet weather. REALLY HELPS! Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Clicker List Web Site : http://clickryder.cjb.net
Re: weed control
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 2/4/00 7:42:59 PM Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I understand the concern about chemicals - have never used them myself - but I've actually considered using a paint brush or a kind of wick to put Round up on. At least it is not sprayed into the air that way. And I've been told that even the organic people have considered it an organic chemical. Not sure if that is true. >> Scientific studies have shown that Roundup is toxic to earthworms, beneficial insects, birds and mammals. Plus it destroys the vegetation they depend on for food and shelter. Although Monsanto (the make of Roundup) claims that Roundup breaks down into harmless substances, it has been found to be extremely persistent, with residues absorbed by subsequent crops over a year after application. Roundup also reduces the growth of beneficial soil dwelling fungi. Brand new evidence shows that Roundup may cause cancer. This info was taken from Organic Gardening July/August 99. I am going to an organic gardening seminar on the weekend of February 19 I will run the salt idea past the experts and let you know the answers. Sue Clark-Sorger Crown Oak Fjords Sandia Park NM
Re: weed control
This message is from: "Karen McCarthy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Frankly, I'd rather use something like Roundup, which "fiddles" the plants' growth mechanisms so they "grow themselves to death". It only requires tiny amounts of the "chemical" (vs many pounds of salt), only kills the plants that are sprayed (doesn't poison the soil, doesn't migrate off-site), and doesn't harm livestock. Agreed, Marsha Jo. The prudent use of an herbicide such as Roundup, exactly measured & applied at the proper rates, along with the use of a spreader sticker agent, is the ticket for really persistant weeds. ( In my case bull thistles and yellow star thistle). It is very inportant to apply it at the optimum time, i.e. just as the daytime temps are getting to 70 degrees, and there is no immenent threat of rain. A proper sprayer also really helps. I love the Solo backpack sprayers, as they are very comfortable to march around with for a couple of hours, and it has a very good dispensing wand that allows you to set it in a small droplet spray pattern that minimizes drift. I like to spray first thing in the am and "get it over with", plus it dries on the leaves. My old shoer in Calif had the scourge of the bull thistles in his overgrazed pastures. Every spring, when the thistles were "ripe" he moved the horses out and then sprayed the pastures, allowing the stock to return after a week. He said they went straight for the limp thistles and LOVED them. No colics or other nasties resulted, proving I suppose that the stuff does break down sucessfully. There is a neat alternative to spraying which I have not tried personally, but I have heard allot of good things about, and that is a backpack propane weed torch. Cooks 'em! Spinach anyone??? Sounds great for fencelines with steel posts. Perhaps you coulsd put metal collars on wooden/plastic ones? __ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Re: weed control
This message is from: Marsha Jo Hannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Brian Jacobsen, DVM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Has anyone used a salt solution to control weeds around fence lines? You > know how a salt block will kill all the grass and weeds around it > eventually? Well, I've been reluctant to start spraying with chemicals, > so I've been wondering if a salt solution could be put in a sprayer and > used around fence lines for the same purpose. > and "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> replied > > I've long been opposed to the use of chemicals but the Knap Weed is > so bad here we need to do something soon. [...] Ruthie Um---last time I looked, "salt" was considered to be a "chemical" My understanding is that salt kills vegetation by "poisoning" the ground, i.e. making it too "saline" for normal plants to grow in. That may be OK for under fence lines---as long as you don't intend to ever move the fence lines, and don't have any salt-loving plants in your area that'll colonize the new ecosystem you've prepared for them. IMHO, doing it to a pasture area to rid it of weeds would be counter-productive, as you'll rid the pasture of all desirable vegetation, too! Undoing this salt-poisoning would vaguely resemble a toxic waste cleanup. And, rainfall can cause the salt to migrate thru the soil, perhaps contaminating groundwater, or poisoning adjacent areas. Frankly, I'd rather use something like Roundup, which "fiddles" the plants' growth mechanisms so they "grow themselves to death". It only requires tiny amounts of the "chemical" (vs many pounds of salt), only kills the plants that are sprayed (doesn't poison the soil, doesn't migrate off-site), and doesn't harm livestock. Marsha Jo HannahMurphy must have been a horseman-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] anything that can go wrong, will! 30 mi SSE of San Francisco, Calif.
Re: weed control
This message is from: GAIL RUSSELL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think the problem would be that you would have to put so much salt on that it would essentially poison the surrounding areas if you relied on this over time. I understand the concern about chemicals - have never used them myself - but I've actually considered using a paint brush or a kind of wick to put Round up on. At least it is not sprayed into the air that way. And I've been told that even the organic people have considered labelling it an organic chemical. Not sure if that is true. As to fence lines - I am contemplating using a serious kind of weed control fabric under fences so I won't have to weed eat five times in one season. Also on the far side of the pipe panels so the horses are not tempted to try to reach through the fence. If you want to know more about the fabric let me know. I use is under my round pen to improve the footing in wet weather. REALLY HELPS! Gail Russell Forestville CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Clicker List Web Site : http://clickryder.cjb.net
Re: weed control
This message is from: "Bushnell's" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'd really like to know about this too! I've long been opposed to the use of chemicals but the Knap Weed is so bad here we need to do something soon. Sure hope someone responds to this one. Ruthie At 06:28 PM 02/04/2000 -0500, you wrote: >This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Has anyone used a salt solution to control weeds around fence lines? You >know how a salt block will kill all the grass and weeds around it >eventually? Well, I've been reluctant to start spraying with chemicals, >so I've been wondering if a salt solution could be put in a sprayer and >used around fence lines for the same purpose. Anyone know? > >Thanks, > >Brian Jacobsen, DVM >Norwegian Fjordhest Ranch >Salisbury, North Carolina > >
