RE: side reins
This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ursula, I don't disagree with you at all about shortcuts. I think you are correct. I will say in Jeff's defense that he is not the typical Morgan horse trainer. I have a Morgan horse and I've been to Morgan shows and that's why I have never shown my Morgan in breed shows. I highly disagree with the accepted show Morgan training methods. Jeff is a primarily into carriage driving and very caring about his horses and training. He only recommended their use to me and to no one else at the clinic. So he is very careful about sugggesting their use. I am using the sliding side reins because whether or not it is a lack of skill on my part, I've had no success over several years with getting Tank in true self carriage. Temporary use of the side reins has helped him start learning to use himself correctly. Jeff emphasized their short term use and a short time for working in them during a schooling session. I do use them very loosely. He is not forced into any head position and can lower or raise or turn his head as he wishes. Sliding side reins like anything else can be overused and be abusive if used incorrectly. They do help him find balance and use his haunches properly. I've notice no resistance (which doesn't mean it isn't there). He is certainly not trussed like a turkey. I have never used tie downs, overchecks or even side checks, etc. I find the sliding side reins the most natural and inoffensive temporary method of helping Tank understand. I like the fact that it encourages him without me being in his mouth or feeling the need to push him too much. I certainly respect your knowledge and skills and thank you for your comments. I would recommend that anyone, including myself use it. = Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com
side reins
This message is from: Ursula Brian Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cynthia ..just for another side to this discussion not to be critical of your use of the side rein as an aid should you choose to go that route. Like any other device it will accomplish what it is meant to do but IMO is a forced positionno matter how gently it's applied and how kind the steps are to remind Tank that he cannot move his head into that space it IS a means to an end and will accomplish the job albeit at the cost of natural balance, natural self carriage and RELAXATION while working off the haunches. In my view it takes lots of ground work to get the horse to relax, balance and work off his haunches come into a natural frame and there are no short cuts...yes, you will get results quickly but it is forced nonetheless. You may get some subtle resistance and that should be a clue. The Morgan trainers are not known for their natural slow progressional way of training (I know that is a generality and doesn't apply to all) ...I've seen my share of their techniques and rarely agree with them. To me slow, progressive, relax, balance is the better route and makes for a happier horse along the way. AND you learn so much more about your horse in the process. This coming from someone who dislikes side checks, over-checks, tie downs and any other device that trusses a horse like a turkey Just my opinion ' dems NOT fightin words.. .ursula Ursula Brian Jensen Trinity Fjords Box 1032 Lumby BC, V0E 2G0 Canada 250-547-6303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://okjunc.junction.net/~ujensen/
side reins
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cynthia, could you share the sliding side rein with bungy cord design for us? I would like to know how to make one as I like the concept. Thanks, Valerie
Jeff Morse's sliding side reins
This message is from: Cynthia Madden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jean, Nancy Tekin of this list and student of Jeff's just sent me a great URL this morning. It is a series of articles Jeff wrote for the Morgan Horse magazine. One of the articles is on side reins and contains a good picture of a set. http://www.morganhorse.com/howto/teachdrive_side.html I haven't been able to get a good picture of the what she was talking about on CD-L though she says it was not a Pessoa system. But I know how well the above works! = Cynthia Madden Las Cruces, NM [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com
Re: side reins
This message is from: Eileen Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeri, Ditto the advice on saddle fit. But my guess is that you're just working with Tana's build. Also, be sure not to confuse flexing at the poll with true balance (self carriage). A horse can be yielding nicely to side reins and still be heavy on the forehand. If you've ruled out any resistance due to soreness, maybe you could try cavelletti. That will encourage Tana to swing her hind legs up under her, and lift her back and stomach muscles. Of course, make sure she doesn't go over them with her head up, hollow backed. FWIW, I find I have to set the cavalletti about 3 ft apart for my Fjord filly. For my bigger Apps, I set them about 4.5 ft apart. Good luck, she sounds like a sweetheart, Eileen Perry in warm, windy West Richland WA.
side reins
This message is from: finally r farm [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps, I wasn't too clear in my earlier post regarding the bending and side reins. We never ride with side reins...we would just use them on the round pen, lunging. Tana would be all tacked up and asked to move outI don't use a lunge line. I use my body, voice and a short whip to direct her. We don't do much riding in the round pen, I prefer to use the arena for riding. We have another Fjord, Ole (gelding) who seems to move forward better than Tana, doesn't flatten out like Tana (we've pretty much got under control but she does try!) and he seems to be more flexible than Tana. He has more of the sport build than Tana, who is draftier. He is younger (by 2 years) and less experienced than Tana. Tana's lack of flexibilty makes short or tight jumping courses more difficult to ride. Tana is my daughter's heart and her Pony Club mount.she is wonderful, reliable just the way she is but if we can improve her and our own skills, we will strive to. I really liked the post on not using any aids at all and will try the pointers. Jeri in Missouri
bending side reins
This message is from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, here goes... I never use side reins on anything. I do all my work either in hand or from the saddle. (Sorry, I know lots of people use them). I have used them in the past, briefly, but have watched horse after horse after horse learn exactly where to go to get away from the pressure. My dressage trainer could tell instantly when I had tried a moment with side reinsI had tried a visiting clinician, who said side reins. I want my horses (mule) to look for the bit, seeking that soft contact, not backing off of it. Nothing compares to a pair of sympathetic/tactful hands when it comes to training a horse. I prefer the quicker release responses that come from human hands when the horse accomplishes what I am asking it to do, no matter how minute, whereas the side reins allow for none of that. There is nothing about the use of side reins that will tell the horse when they have got it right, as it relates to how I want my horses to handle the bit when I am riding or driving(except that they do learn they are more comfortable when they avoid pressure altogether). I don't ride/drive my horses by pretending that my arms and reins are side reins.I allow for lots of gives and takes to reward them, as appropriate. In hand, you can ask the horse to bring his head around to the inside, while putting a little hand pressure on the horse's side where they are bending, approximately where the foot would go to ask for a bend. This translates well into the saddle. This starts to set them up for leg yields, canter departs, picking up dropped shoulders, etc. Too, from the saddle, there has to be enough release on the outside bend of the young horse to allow it to bend to the inside. Also, the rider must be aware of their positioning, so that the horse does not fall into the circle with the shoulder. So, from the saddle, the horse must have the shoulders up, while the rider gives it support with the inside leg. And, it is wonderful to have the horse supported with the outside rein, but that takes work, but it holds the bend. Carrying weight is also different from going without, and it might just take a little time for your Fjord to acclimate to the weight. As with all training, start at the walkonce you get things going correctly there, then move on to the trotetc. This may not be a one day session...but give Tana time to figure it out. Yes, I have the beautiful German leather side reins with donuts, out collecting dust. It makes more work for me, but it also strengthens the bond between me and my herd, as there is actually more communicating time. Hope this helps...I try so hard to keep my ears and eyes open. Listened to Klaus Balkanhol, who trained the German Olympic Dressage Team and is now in the US doing the same for our US team members.. He doesn't believe in ANY gimmicks..because in one fashion or another, it always leaves holes in the training that will have to be filled by going back and doing the hands on approach again. Discussed nose bands, toothey are a temperature gauge as to how you are doing as a rider, can tell is something is bothering the horse, etc...so do NOT crank it down!!! He was phenomenal!! It was nice to hear that reinforcement that I seem to be on the right track, even though I have made my mistakes along the way, too. Hope this helps. Carole Sweet ps..there are others on the list, I am sure, that can probably fine tune what I have said, and make it a little clearer.but this is a start.
