RE: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith...
The patterns are there to help. No need to use something if it doesn't actually benefit you. It is weird for somebody to look for patterns to be implemented so that the application is pattern compliant. When you ensure that only one object needs to exist, voila, you used the singleton pattern. When you use one generic class to derive other classes, you have the factory pattern. But all this comes from your app dictating what needs to be done. In between patterns there is a lot of glue code. No worries, do the best app you can and at the end you'll notice a few patterns in there too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Rønning Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:34 AM To: Flashcoders mailing list Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith... As Neo said, don't sweat the OOP. I honestly, truly, vividly believe that in 9 out of 10 approaches to an AS2 flash application, most if not all design patterns boil down to overengineering. Like you, i've spent so long pulling my hair out trying to factor design patterns into my actual application functionality to no avail, yet falling back to a generic event model and inventing and extending as i go tend to resolve my issues fairly well, with less obfuscated code (as long as i keep my typing strict) and in far less time, especially since i started using FlashDevelop. In terms of production, what truly, actually matters, is that your client receives a solution that is stable, reliable, user frieindly and help ssell their product somehow, be it a website, a kiosk app, a presentation tool, whatever. The quality of a product isn't dictated by its OOP structure. I use OOP, and by OOP i mean inheritance and polymorphism, extensively to abstract problems down to a comfortable size. But do i feel less of a developer because i don't use MVC? Not by miles. IMHO, design patterns apply to RIAs and development in large groups. They do not apply to making a mouse trailer that says loading and a slideshow you can solve with 3-4 short classes and no inheritance. In typical flash instances, all AS2 is is less anarchic AS1. It is not C++. my $.2 - Andreas SJ ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith...
If I am building an application, not a presentation, and it's not throwaway (going to be gone in 6 months) or I'm expected to maintain and/or upgrade it for awhile, then I will write MVC because of all the benefits it provides long-term and for future developers to follow behind me. Otherwise, I just code to get it done and there's nothing wrong with that. Knowing how to do both and when to do which is important when managing your stress level and time management skills. MVC doesn't help you get a disposable, glorified power point presentation out the door faster and I've seen many intermediate coders over code something with views and controllers when it's just a screen with three buttons that swap a center movieclip with three different images. They might see it as practice, but it's not good practice to use the wrong tool to get the job done. If you're building a bird house, should you spend the time to get proper zoning, building permits and lay down a cement foundation, plumbing and wiring as if you were building a real house? :) ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith...
If you're building a bird house, should you spend the time to get proper zoning, building permits and lay down a cement foundation, plumbing and wiring as if you were building a real house? :) If really like birds and you want a really GOOD birdhouse. :) Jason Merrill Bank of America Learning Organization Effectiveness - Technology Solutions ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith...
I've inherited some projects using lots of clean MVC ideas and I've inherited projects that made me come of withe the acronym YALOA.. Yet Annother Layer of Abstraction These later ones made me think of the quote that Most complex systems that work started out as simple systems that work That said, I think the issue here is that you code for clients, maybe future coders,but you rarely code for your peers unless you're writing an open-source module for a widely used application. Coding for clients means there are deadlines and changing requirements and endless meetings, these things can play havoc on some architecture ideas and work okay with others, though of course, no plan survives first contact with the enemy.. er .. client... This is not a defense of code-and-fix, or of sloppy code, just a reminder that all these patterns and such are tools, only tools, and nobody remembers what tools great painters used, we just remember the painting... if the tool works, we love the result, if the tool is worshipped for it's own beauty, we're like those leica camera collectors who are bad photographers -Jeff Arva, Adrian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The patterns are there to help. No need to use something if it doesn't actually benefit you. It is weird for somebody to look for patterns to be implemented so that the application is pattern compliant. When you ensure that only one object needs to exist, voila, you used the singleton pattern. When you use one generic class to derive other classes, you have the factory pattern. But all this comes from your app dictating what needs to be done. In between patterns there is a lot of glue code. No worries, do the best app you can and at the end you'll notice a few patterns in there too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Rønning Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:34 AM To: Flashcoders mailing list Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith... As Neo said, don't sweat the OOP. I honestly, truly, vividly believe that in 9 out of 10 approaches to an AS2 flash application, most if not all design patterns boil down to overengineering. Like you, i've spent so long pulling my hair out trying to factor design patterns into my actual application functionality to no avail, yet falling back to a generic event model and inventing and extending as i go tend to resolve my issues fairly well, with less obfuscated code (as long as i keep my typing strict) and in far less time, especially since i started using FlashDevelop. In terms of production, what truly, actually matters, is that your client receives a solution that is stable, reliable, user frieindly and help ssell their product somehow, be it a website, a kiosk app, a presentation tool, whatever. The quality of a product isn't dictated by its OOP structure. I use OOP, and by OOP i mean inheritance and polymorphism, extensively to abstract problems down to a comfortable size. But do i feel less of a developer because i don't use MVC? Not by miles. IMHO, design patterns apply to RIAs and development in large groups. They do not apply to making a mouse trailer that says loading and a slideshow you can solve with 3-4 short classes and no inheritance. In typical flash instances, all AS2 is is less anarchic AS1. It is not C++. my $.2 - Andreas SJ ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com The war is not meant to be won it is meant to be continuous. -George Orwell http://tinyurl.com/2sjb3 http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0708042lay1.html - Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
RE: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith...
Mmm, some hints, It is OOP and it consists of 2 main classes that are extended by two other classes . The 2 main classes define all the methods necessarye to let the system function (stuff like selected state, attaching the buttons (which reside in your library)). Then the 2 classes that extend the main ones arrange specific things for your particular needs (like rollover animations, positioning). This is my best short explanation, hope it clears things up a bit! (and why not try to find a copy of that specific chapter 3 somewhere online..) Wouter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ricardo Sánchez Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 3:49 PM To: Flashcoders mailing list Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing myfaith... Can you share some hints? Is it OOP? If you tell me that book is good I'll probably buy it but it would be nice if you share a little of what you are talking about. Thanks! On 8/24/06, Wouter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the system you are describing I use one from this book (chapter 3) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590595947 It is a nice system formenus, doing exactly what you want and it is easy to customize Wouter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ricardo Sánchez Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:53 PM To: Flashcoders mailing list Subject: [Flashcoders] Re: OOP methodology and flash. I'm loosing my faith... Maybe I'm not explaining my self clear. What I want to know is what is the best approach to make a site with a menu with some buttons with rollOvers, rollOuts... When you click a button it stays selected until you click another one. Clicking any button will load content on a specific place on the web, making it appear with some animation and making also the last one desapear... I ask this because 80% of the projects I make have that structure or very similar. And I think it can be helpfull to other people too. On 8/23/06, Ricardo Sánchez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... well, not really but I thought it was good as I title I always use OOP for my flash projects but, even if I find it easier than timeline coding, I dont know if I'm taking all the advantage of OOP. I'm not even sure if I am aplying the correct patterns for every problem. My insecurity probably has to do with the lack of normal work OOP flash examples. For example the typicall top menu/content web. How can OOP be applied to that? I guess I find a gap in the theory of knowing how to link the symbols, movieclips, timeline and graphics in flash with the code in external files. Am I opening a can of worms? Thanks. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
