Re: [flexcoders] XMLListCollection DataGrid Performance vs Any Other DataProvider Type

2010-04-30 Thread Alex Harui
I don’t know of any links off-hand.  I would simply create a class with the set 
of properties you are interested in, then take the XML and parse it into 
instances of that class.

You can try to get XMLDecoder to do it, but sometimes it is more efficient just 
to write your own converter.


On 4/29/10 7:50 PM, Angelo Anolin angelo_ano...@yahoo.com wrote:






Any link to show us some samples?

My data is coming from a .NET backend and most of it are in XML format and 
parsed into XMLListCollection.

Would appreciate some more info on this.

THanks.


From: Alex Harui aha...@adobe.com
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 28 April, 2010 21:49:52
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] XMLListCollection DataGrid Performance vs Any Other 
DataProvider Type




Convert the XML to Class instances.


On 4/28/10 10:06 AM, jamesfin james.alan.finnigan @gmail.com wrote:






Here's the scenario...

Simple datagrid with XMLListCollection data provider.

Average collection size is 200 rows of XML (shown below)

10 columns in the datagrid with a unique item renderer for each.  1 Column can 
display 1 of 10 embedded images depending on an xml attribute.

AS3-only Renderers are highly optimized.

Average visible rows = 30 (simultaneously visible rows / meaning at least 300 
renderers being recycled when scrolling?

Typical XML row data

foodata fooid=4997 fooid2=0 fooid3=2909 foot=9 startdate=2010-04-09 
13:45:00 enddate=2010-04-09 14:45:00 foost=1 fooname=New Foobar 
foosub=More Foobardata fooloc=false fooonly=false
/foodata

When all said and done being loaded, vertical scrolling is noticeably slow on a 
new iMac (Safari or Firefox with latest FlashPlayer) compared to a stripped 
down non-XML data provider version which scrolls quickly.

Googling consensus shows that XMLListCollection is not the optimal dataprovider 
in this scenario and that XML in general is not the best choice if it can be 
avoided.

Can anybody shed any light on a better way to improve scrolling performance 
based upon this scenario?

Thanks in advance.






--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe System, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui


Re: [flexcoders] [FB4] Creating a simple Sprite inside a Component

2010-04-30 Thread Alex Harui
It depends.  Just like in Flex 3, there are some “rules” to being a child 
component in the Flex framework and Wprites are generally too low-level to be 
used everywhere.  There is documentation and examples on writing a custom 
component and various methods you have to implement to get the component to 
display correctly.  The rules are a bit different for Flex 4, but mostly the 
same.

You can probably use Group or SpriteVisualElement instead of Sprite but again, 
they may not size correctly unless you follow the rules.


On 4/29/10 9:40 AM, helmutgranda helmutgra...@yahoo.com wrote:






I am trying to create a simple sprite that I can draw to during instantiation 
but I keep getting error after error and here is one of the most common one:

error
Multiple markers at this line:
-SkinnableContainer
-Could not resolve s:Sprite to a component implementation.
/error

All I want to do is create a sprite with one color which then will listen to 
different events during the life of the application and then display a color 
that reflects the event dispatched.

Here is some code:

fx:Script
![CDATA[
private const spr1:Sprite = new Sprite();
private const spr2:Sprite = new Sprite();

private function init():void {

spr1.graphics.beginFill(0xFF, 0.5);
spr1.graphics.drawRect(10, 10, 100, 80);
spr1.graphics.endFill();
dom.addChild(spr1);

spr2.graphics.beginFill(0xFF, 0.3);
spr2.graphics.drawRect(20, 20, 80, 100);
spr2.graphics.endFill();
dom.addChild(spr2);
}
]]
/fx:Script
s:Sprite x=33 y=38 width=200 height=200 id=dom
/s:Sprite

Now if I change the Sprite to a Button it works as expected and it does because 
the Button subclasses spark.components so if that is the only way to get around 
it what would be the spark.component that would give me the freedom I want?

TIA






--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe System, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui


Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Alex Harui
Global exception handling is in FP 10.1 and AIR 2.0.  There should be better 
printing APIs in AIR 2.0 as well.  These new features are not leveraged in the 
Flex framework because they were not committed until too late in our schedule 
for Flex 4.0, but they were committed before Jobs starting posting about Flash.


On 4/29/10 9:33 PM, mitek17 mite...@gmail.com wrote:








--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Seth 
Caldwell w...@... wrote:

 Steve is employing several tactics used by politicians. The iphone is not
 open.

iPhone is a device, not a technology. Technology should be open, device  
software could be proprietary. Steve stresses it particularly, please read 
Job's message more throroughly.

I hope that the pressure from Jobs will finally make Adobe get cracking.

Hey, what's with Linux support? What is happening with exception handling? are 
we there yet? No? Adobe, are you still busy with FX prefix? How many more years 
it will take to implement the feature which should appear first in any 
development platform.

It took us YEARS (sic!) for voting, whinging and asking to fix the bugs and 
provide basic features. Printing support? Forget it, the company which invented 
PDF  Postscript  is too busy with something else.

Adobe, please wake up and make your call, otherwise it will be too late.

PS By waking up I don't mean submitting another pile of letters to FTC :)






--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe System, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui


[flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread mitek17
https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-444
Created: 06/21/07 03:43 PM 

Is it already available? 10.1 is still pre-release beta with no API available 
for GEH. Almost 3 years...And counting.

Printing improvements in Flex 4? Well, we have to trasnform 300 000 lines of 
code into Flex 4 first to check it. Does it finally do a second pass on 
validNextPage()?


Alex, a question for you. Does anyone at Flex SDK Team know what's happening 
with matrix transform and properties of Flex containers? 
Flash itself respects transform method and updates all properties correctly. Is 
there any reason why the Flex containers are not updating their own properies 
after transform? 



PS I am a strong Flex/Flash platform supporter and we are working on a huge 
project written in Flex 3 and I want to see Flex/Flash alive. But with the 
current state of developers support and overall approach to the platform I 
would say that Adobe is not going to make it. 




Cheers,
Dmitri.



--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Alex Harui aha...@... wrote:

 Global exception handling is in FP 10.1 and AIR 2.0.  There should be better 
 printing APIs in AIR 2.0 as well.  These new features are not leveraged in 
 the Flex framework because they were not committed until too late in our 
 schedule for Flex 4.0, but they were committed before Jobs starting posting 
 about Flash.
 
 
 On 4/29/10 9:33 PM, mitek17 mite...@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , 
 Seth Caldwell wiz@ wrote:
 
  Steve is employing several tactics used by politicians. The iphone is not
  open.
 
 iPhone is a device, not a technology. Technology should be open, device  
 software could be proprietary. Steve stresses it particularly, please read 
 Job's message more throroughly.
 
 I hope that the pressure from Jobs will finally make Adobe get cracking.
 
 Hey, what's with Linux support? What is happening with exception handling? 
 are we there yet? No? Adobe, are you still busy with FX prefix? How many more 
 years it will take to implement the feature which should appear first in any 
 development platform.
 
 It took us YEARS (sic!) for voting, whinging and asking to fix the bugs and 
 provide basic features. Printing support? Forget it, the company which 
 invented PDF  Postscript  is too busy with something else.
 
 Adobe, please wake up and make your call, otherwise it will be too late.
 
 PS By waking up I don't mean submitting another pile of letters to FTC :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Alex Harui
 Flex SDK Team
 Adobe System, Inc.
 http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui





Re: [flexcoders] Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Tom Chiverton
On Thursday 29 Apr 2010 21:08:42 you wrote:
 Hi, I want to share this
 (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/) with the people who
 hasn't read it before and maybe read your comments on this topic.

/me puts down his smart phone with a full Flash player with great performance

That article is so wrong, in so many places, but the corrections will never 
get the same exposure. Good tactic, unfortunately.

-- 
Tom Chiverton
Helping to assertively grow cross-platform initiatives as part of the IT team 
of the year 2010, '09 and '08



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[flexcoders] Re: Prevent number splitting into two lines when using space as thousand separator

2010-04-30 Thread Jukka








Hey, thanks. Thought everything (even making my own custom logic for checking 
if the values are higher than 999) but this. :D 

So adding 

numberformatter.thousandsSeparatorTo = #xA0;;

instead of

thousandsSeparatorTo =  ;

did the trick. :) Thanks again. :)

Cheers,
Jukka

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Oleg Sivokon olegsivo...@... wrote:

 Use non-breaking space?





[flexcoders] setters on my repeated custom component fire twice

2010-04-30 Thread chuckjr
I am using a repeater to display thumbnails. The repeated component is a custom 
component includes a setter for the image property. When the setter runs, it 
loads an external image. 

The problem is that when I change the repeater's data provider, it appears that 
the setters for the images fire twice; once when the data provider is changed 
but before the repeater starts, and then again when the repeater runs. 

As a result, each component loads it's image twice, which uses extra bandwidth. 
Plus, if the new data provider has less items than the one it's replacing, the 
existing repeated components that are beyond the number of the new components, 
try to load an image that there is no data for, resulting in a browser error.

This happens weather recycleChildren is true or false. I made a bare bones 
test, and it did the same thing, so I'm guessing this is normal behavior. 

So, what should I be doing differently so that the setters don't fire twice?

Here's the repeater code:
mx:Repeater id=myRepeater repeatStart={trace('repeatStart')}
local:myBox myText={XML(myRepeater.currentItem).text}/
/mx:Repeater

Here's the custom component:
?xml version=1.0 encoding=utf-8?
mx:Canvas xmlns:mx=http://www.adobe.com/2006/mxml; width=100 height=100
mx:Script
![CDATA[   
[Bindable]
private var _myText:String; 
public function set myText(val:String):void
{
trace(setter called)
_myText = val;
}
]]
/mx:Script
mx:Box backgroundColor=0xFF
mx:Label text={_myText}/
/mx:Box   
/mx:Canvas



[flexcoders] Re: XMLListCollection DataGrid Performance vs Any Other DataProvider Type

2010-04-30 Thread jamesfin


This code will convert for you...

You need to replace the xmllist.myxmldata with your own xml structure names.


private function convertXmlToArrayCollection( myxml:String 
):ArrayCollection
{
var xml:XMLDocument = new XMLDocument( myxml );

var decoder:SimpleXMLDecoder = new 
SimpleXMLDecoder();
var data:Object = decoder.decodeXML( xml );

var array:Array = 
ArrayUtil.toArray(data.xmllist.myxmldata);

return new ArrayCollection( array );
}


A quick follow-up after I made this tweak to use objects vs xml.

In my case, performance increased by about 20% when scrolling on a 24 monitor 
browser full-size by reducing the number of renderers from 10 to 3.  I then 
pre-translated the original xml data in the conversion so that I didn't need to 
do it with a label function.  

Performance is now acceptable in full-screen (24) mode.

Bottom-line, avoid renderers.  Label functions are better but are still taxing 
on the performance if there is a bunch of computing going on in those 
functions.  Pre-render data when converting from xml to objects.







--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Alex Harui aha...@... wrote:

 I don't know of any links off-hand.  I would simply create a class with the 
 set of properties you are interested in, then take the XML and parse it into 
 instances of that class.
 
 You can try to get XMLDecoder to do it, but sometimes it is more efficient 
 just to write your own converter.
 
 
 On 4/29/10 7:50 PM, Angelo Anolin angelo_ano...@... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Any link to show us some samples?
 
 My data is coming from a .NET backend and most of it are in XML format and 
 parsed into XMLListCollection.
 
 Would appreciate some more info on this.
 
 THanks.
 
 
 From: Alex Harui aha...@...
 To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Wed, 28 April, 2010 21:49:52
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] XMLListCollection DataGrid Performance vs Any Other 
 DataProvider Type
 
 
 
 
 Convert the XML to Class instances.
 
 
 On 4/28/10 10:06 AM, jamesfin james.alan.finnigan @gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Here's the scenario...
 
 Simple datagrid with XMLListCollection data provider.
 
 Average collection size is 200 rows of XML (shown below)
 
 10 columns in the datagrid with a unique item renderer for each.  1 Column 
 can display 1 of 10 embedded images depending on an xml attribute.
 
 AS3-only Renderers are highly optimized.
 
 Average visible rows = 30 (simultaneously visible rows / meaning at least 300 
 renderers being recycled when scrolling?
 
 Typical XML row data
 
 foodata fooid=4997 fooid2=0 fooid3=2909 foot=9 startdate=2010-04-09 
 13:45:00 enddate=2010-04-09 14:45:00 foost=1 fooname=New Foobar 
 foosub=More Foobardata fooloc=false fooonly=false
 /foodata
 
 When all said and done being loaded, vertical scrolling is noticeably slow on 
 a new iMac (Safari or Firefox with latest FlashPlayer) compared to a stripped 
 down non-XML data provider version which scrolls quickly.
 
 Googling consensus shows that XMLListCollection is not the optimal 
 dataprovider in this scenario and that XML in general is not the best choice 
 if it can be avoided.
 
 Can anybody shed any light on a better way to improve scrolling performance 
 based upon this scenario?
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Alex Harui
 Flex SDK Team
 Adobe System, Inc.
 http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui





[flexcoders] Re: Binding and square brackets

2010-04-30 Thread Amy


--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Richard Rodseth rrods...@... wrote:

 I'm interested in getting rid of Data binding will not be able to
 detect changes when using square bracket operator without introducing
 an ArrayCollection.
 The view displays data for the seven days of the week. Not using a
 repeater (though one could).
 
 I invite opinions on the relative merits (performance/elegance) of the
 following:
 
 A) Split the data in the presentation model when the combined data comes in
 
 c:DailyView day=Monday data={model.mondayData}
 c:DailyView day=Tuesday data={model.tuesdayData}
 
 Obviously only an option because there are only seven days.
 
 B) Use a function in the view
 
 private function dailyData(combinedDailyData:Array, dayIndex:int) {
   return model.combinedData[day]; // could also use a dictionary
 }
 
 c:DailyView day=Monday data={this.dailyData(model.stuff, 0)}/
 
 C) A bindable non-getter in the presentation model
 
 c:DailyView day=Monday data={model.dataForDay(0)}/
 
 In the model:
 [Bindable(event=combinedDataChanged)]
 public function dataForDay(day:int):Array {
   return combinedData[day];
 }
 
 Obviously the setter for combinedData dispatches combinedDataChanged.
 
 I actually wasn't aware, or had forgotten, that C) is possible on a
 non-getter function until I tried it just now. I actually like this
 option because it encapsulates the storage used (array, dictionary,
 whatever). I think I just answered my own question.


Had you considered just using getItemAt() on your ArrayCollection?



RE: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Battershall, Jeff
Mike,

Adobe get cracking - are you kidding me  They've just released a slew of 
new products in the last two months; they're nearly done on FP 10.1, Air 2.0, 
and forged an important alliance with Google. 

What more do you want them to do before you can say they've gotten cracking?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcod...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of mitek17
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:33 AM
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs



--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Seth Caldwell w...@... wrote:

 Steve is employing several tactics used by politicians. The iphone is not
 open. 

iPhone is a device, not a technology. Technology should be open, device  
software could be proprietary. Steve stresses it particularly, please read 
Job's message more throroughly. 


I hope that the pressure from Jobs will finally make Adobe get cracking.

Hey, what's with Linux support? What is happening with exception handling? are 
we there yet? No? Adobe, are you still busy with FX prefix? How many more years 
it will take to implement the feature which should appear first in any 
development platform.

It took us YEARS (sic!) for voting, whinging and asking to fix the bugs and 
provide basic features. Printing support? Forget it, the company which invented 
PDF  Postscript  is too busy with something else. 


Adobe, please wake up and make your call, otherwise it will be too late.  

PS By waking up I don't mean submitting another pile of letters to FTC :) 









--
Flexcoders Mailing List
FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt
Alternative FAQ location: 
https://share.acrobat.com/adc/document.do?docid=942dbdc8-e469-446f-b4cf-1e62079f6847
Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! 
Groups Links





[flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Amy


--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, mitek17 mite...@... wrote:

 
 
 --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Seth Caldwell wiz@ wrote:
 
  Steve is employing several tactics used by politicians. The iphone is not
  open. 
 
 iPhone is a device, not a technology. Technology should be open, device  
 software could be proprietary. Steve stresses it particularly, please read 
 Job's message more throroughly. 
 
 
 I hope that the pressure from Jobs will finally make Adobe get cracking.

Get cracking at what?  Steve Jobs is on record as saying that no matter what 
Adobe does with the player, the iPhone and iTampon won't support it.

-Amy



[flexcoders] Re: setters on my repeated custom component fire twice

2010-04-30 Thread chuckjr
I forgot to say that I'm using Flex Builder 3.



[flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread PFD Studio

The talk about openness is completely disingenuous.  Flash/Flex/ActionScript is 
vastly more open than any of the relevant Apple technologies.

Moreover, what Jobs really wants is for Quicktime to be the video technology of 
choice.

I believe Apple will eventually have to cave to market pressure on this one.  
Unfortunately, the delay is a pain in the neck for everyone.

-pd




Re: [flexcoders] Re: Binding and square brackets

2010-04-30 Thread Richard Rodseth
without introducing an ArrayCollection

The data is an array and always changes atomically. Wrapping it in an
ArrayCollection is certainly one option.

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:15 AM, Amy amyblankens...@bellsouth.net wrote:





 --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com, Richard
 Rodseth rrods...@... wrote:
 
  I'm interested in getting rid of Data binding will not be able to
  detect changes when using square bracket operator without introducing
  an ArrayCollection.
  The view displays data for the seven days of the week. Not using a
  repeater (though one could).
 
  I invite opinions on the relative merits (performance/elegance) of the
  following:
 
  A) Split the data in the presentation model when the combined data comes
 in
 
  c:DailyView day=Monday data={model.mondayData}
  c:DailyView day=Tuesday data={model.tuesdayData}
 
  Obviously only an option because there are only seven days.
 
  B) Use a function in the view
 
  private function dailyData(combinedDailyData:Array, dayIndex:int) {
  return model.combinedData[day]; // could also use a dictionary
  }
 
  c:DailyView day=Monday data={this.dailyData(model.stuff, 0)}/
 
  C) A bindable non-getter in the presentation model
 
  c:DailyView day=Monday data={model.dataForDay(0)}/
 
  In the model:
  [Bindable(event=combinedDataChanged)]
  public function dataForDay(day:int):Array {
  return combinedData[day];
  }
 
  Obviously the setter for combinedData dispatches combinedDataChanged.
 
  I actually wasn't aware, or had forgotten, that C) is possible on a
  non-getter function until I tried it just now. I actually like this
  option because it encapsulates the storage used (array, dictionary,
  whatever). I think I just answered my own question.
 

 Had you considered just using getItemAt() on your ArrayCollection?

  



Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Alex Harui
There are no printing improvements in Flex 4.  AIR 2.0 supposedly has some new 
APIs you can use instead of our print code and it might have landed in 10.1 but 
I haven’t verified.

GEH is doc’d here: 
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform//reference/actionscript/3/flash/events/UncaughtErrorEvents.html.
  However, it still may not do what you think it will.  GEH is not being given 
a high priority since the release players don’t display exception dialogs.

If you have a specific bug with our transform code (assuming you are using our 
APIs to alter the transform), file a bug or start a new thread or post a link 
to an old thread.  I didn’t do the transform code so I can’t answer.


On 4/30/10 12:36 AM, mitek17 mite...@gmail.com wrote:






https://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-444
Created: 06/21/07 03:43 PM

Is it already available? 10.1 is still pre-release beta with no API available 
for GEH. Almost 3 years...And counting.

Printing improvements in Flex 4? Well, we have to trasnform 300 000 lines of 
code into Flex 4 first to check it. Does it finally do a second pass on 
validNextPage()?

Alex, a question for you. Does anyone at Flex SDK Team know what's happening 
with matrix transform and properties of Flex containers?
Flash itself respects transform method and updates all properties correctly. Is 
there any reason why the Flex containers are not updating their own properies 
after transform?

PS I am a strong Flex/Flash platform supporter and we are working on a huge 
project written in Flex 3 and I want to see Flex/Flash alive. But with the 
current state of developers support and overall approach to the platform I 
would say that Adobe is not going to make it.

Cheers,
Dmitri.

--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Alex 
Harui aha...@... wrote:

 Global exception handling is in FP 10.1 and AIR 2.0.  There should be better 
 printing APIs in AIR 2.0 as well.  These new features are not leveraged in 
 the Flex framework because they were not committed until too late in our 
 schedule for Flex 4.0, but they were committed before Jobs starting posting 
 about Flash.


 On 4/29/10 9:33 PM, mitek17 mite...@... wrote:








 --- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com  
 mailto:flexcoders%40yahoogroups.com , Seth Caldwell wiz@ wrote:
 
  Steve is employing several tactics used by politicians. The iphone is not
  open.

 iPhone is a device, not a technology. Technology should be open, device  
 software could be proprietary. Steve stresses it particularly, please read 
 Job's message more throroughly.

 I hope that the pressure from Jobs will finally make Adobe get cracking.

 Hey, what's with Linux support? What is happening with exception handling? 
 are we there yet? No? Adobe, are you still busy with FX prefix? How many more 
 years it will take to implement the feature which should appear first in any 
 development platform.

 It took us YEARS (sic!) for voting, whinging and asking to fix the bugs and 
 provide basic features. Printing support? Forget it, the company which 
 invented PDF  Postscript  is too busy with something else.

 Adobe, please wake up and make your call, otherwise it will be too late.

 PS By waking up I don't mean submitting another pile of letters to FTC :)






 --
 Alex Harui
 Flex SDK Team
 Adobe System, Inc.
 http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui







--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe System, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui


Re: [flexcoders] RobotLegs Framework

2010-04-30 Thread Mark Lapasa
I can testify, robotlegs is pretty good coming from 2yrs+ of doing
Cairngorm. A lot less boiler plate code that's for sure. Dependency
Injection for mock objects makes it great for the devs on my team to develop
views when the service layer is not quite ready yet. Give the best practices
a good read through and it should be a happy experience.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Patricia Han flex...@yahoo.com wrote:



 Thanks a lot, John!
 Currently we're using Cairngorm, but we are thinking to move to Robotlegs
 in the next product. My concern on the Robotlegs is that not many people are
 using the new framework. So there won't be too many examples, talks,
 workarounds, etc.

 Thanks again.

 Pat.

 --
 *From:* John McCormack j...@easypeasy.co.uk
 *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
 *Sent:* Thu, April 29, 2010 1:37:37 AM
 *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] RobotLegs Framework



 Have a look at John Lindquist's video - 3rd one down:
 http://pv3d. org/ http://pv3d.org/
 John

 Patricia Han wrote:
 
 
  Hi Everyone,
 
  Have you used Robotlegs framework? Please share your experience with
  me. (compare with Cairngorm or PureMVC)
  Thanks,
 
  Pat
 
 
 
 


  



[flexcoders] How to do the majic of scrolling?

2010-04-30 Thread Wally Kolcz
I want the contents of the main Application to scroll Vertically so I 
can have an extra long web site. I added a scroller to the content area 
of an Application Skin and I see the application...but despite putting 3 
containers that exceed the height of my laptop, the scroller is grayed 
out. Any examples on how to do this, seemingly, simple thing?

Scroller that is wrapped around all the groups in a 
spark.component.Application skin:

s:Scroller id=siteScroller horizontalScrollPolicy=off 
verticalScrollPolicy=on width=100% height=100%..

I have it wrapped around the group of groups.




Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Wally Kolcz
I get it, Steve, no Flash on iWhatever...now just shut up.. My job and 
life will move right along. Wasn't he supposed to be dead by now or 
something...or did he replace his cancer with a iBodyPart...what a douche.


On 4/30/2010 11:50 AM, PFD Studio wrote:



The talk about openness is completely disingenuous. 
Flash/Flex/ActionScript is vastly more open than any of the relevant 
Apple technologies.


Moreover, what Jobs really wants is for Quicktime to be the video 
technology of choice.


I believe Apple will eventually have to cave to market pressure on 
this one. Unfortunately, the delay is a pain in the neck for everyone.


-pd






Re: [flexcoders] How to do the majic of scrolling?

2010-04-30 Thread Alex Harui
Try setting minHeight=”0” on the scroller


On 4/30/10 12:14 PM, Wally Kolcz wko...@isavepets.com wrote:






I want the contents of the main Application to scroll Vertically so I
can have an extra long web site. I added a scroller to the content area
of an Application Skin and I see the application...but despite putting 3
containers that exceed the height of my laptop, the scroller is grayed
out. Any examples on how to do this, seemingly, simple thing?

Scroller that is wrapped around all the groups in a
spark.component.Application skin:

s:Scroller id=siteScroller horizontalScrollPolicy=off
verticalScrollPolicy=on width=100% height=100%..

I have it wrapped around the group of groups.






--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe System, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui


[flexcoders] Flashbuilder hang loading workbench

2010-04-30 Thread Richard Rodseth
Not a good way to end the week. FlashBuilder hangs loading the
workbench. Spinning beach ball, must Force Quit. Is there some cache I
can delete to get up and running again?
I saw a similar post on the flex forums from a few days ago, but no
one has responded.


Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton
Oh dude, come on, that's low. 

Either agree or disagree with what he says (I agree with most of it - HTML5 et 
al can replace the need for a lot of what Flash often does, and it's support is 
growing and standards are good for all of us) but don't make it personal.

Guy


On 01/05/2010, at 5:17 AM, Wally Kolcz wrote:

 I get it, Steve, no Flash on iWhatever...now just shut up.. My job and life 
 will move right along. Wasn't he supposed to be dead by now or something...or 
 did he replace his cancer with a iBodyPart...what a douche.
 
 On 4/30/2010 11:50 AM, PFD Studio wrote:
 
  
 
 The talk about openness is completely disingenuous. Flash/Flex/ActionScript 
 is vastly more open than any of the relevant Apple technologies.
 
 Moreover, what Jobs really wants is for Quicktime to be the video technology 
 of choice.
 
 I believe Apple will eventually have to cave to market pressure on this one. 
 Unfortunately, the delay is a pain in the neck for everyone.
 
 -pd
 
 
 
 



Re: [flexcoders] Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton
On 30/04/2010, at 6:22 PM, Tom Chiverton wrote:









On Thursday 29 Apr 2010 21:08:42 you wrote:
 Hi, I want to share this
 (http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/) with the people who
 hasn't read it before and maybe read your comments on this topic.

/me puts down his smart phone with a full Flash player with great performanceJobs isn't saying that Flash could never work on a smartphone, he's just saying he doesn't want it on Apple's smartphones, for the reasons he's listed.

That article is so wrong, in so many places, but the corrections will never 
get the same exposure. Good tactic, unfortunately.I'm interested to know where you think he is factually wrong.Guy












Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton

On 01/05/2010, at 1:50 AM, PFD Studio wrote:

 
 The talk about openness is completely disingenuous. Flash/Flex/ActionScript 
 is vastly more open than any of the relevant Apple technologies.
 

How do you figure that HTML5 is less open than Flash?


 
 Moreover, what Jobs really wants is for Quicktime to be the video technology 
 of choice.
 

And Adobe wants everyone to use Flash...but at least Apple is driving adoption 
of bona-fide standards. Flash is not an open standard.


 
 I believe Apple will eventually have to cave to market pressure on this one. 
 Unfortunately, the delay is a pain in the neck for everyone.
 

It's an interesting battle. I'd have to say Jobs is running a pretty ballsy 
line on it. At this stage it doesn't seem to be doing Apple any harm at all and 
it's certainly helping to raise the profile of HTML5 and the benefits of 
standards in general, which I think is a good thing.

Guy


 
 -pd
 
 



Re: [flexcoders] Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton

On 30/04/2010, at 12:10 PM, Oleg Sivokon wrote:

 
 I've got this same link from my friend, and it's funny how it serves the 
 facts... well, flash was in fact the first to use h.264 codec for video on 
 the web (could be that some other existed before, but the HTML5 wasn't the 
 first, that's for sure),


Quicktime 7 had H.264 support, so if you used that to view video content you'd 
have been able to see h.264 video as early as April 2005of course video on 
the web prior to html5 pretty much relied on Flash to make it work nicely, so 
of course Flash supporting h.264 in 2007 was arguably a bigger deal to all 
intents and purposes.


 and it does use hardware rendering to display that on Windows. It is true it 
 uses pure CPU rendering on Macs and both sides blame it on poor cooperation 
 of the other side.

Which kinda makes Steve's point, that a cross-platform runtime will never 
maximise the performance of individual platforms unless there is a commercial 
incentive to do so.


 I think, maybe one valid point that he makes is that Adobe didn't invest to 
 much into mobile market until very recently... and, to be honest, flash 
 rendering may be more optimized... like using platform available graphics 
 tools - be it DirectX or OpenGL. It is also true that flash is kind of stuck 
 in it's development... well, the language hadn't seen any significant change 
 in years...
 But I don't think that what Apple cares about is how flash performs... not is 
 it at all familiar with the situation around the product... For example I 
 have Adobe tools to develop for flash on my Windows installation, but on 
 Linux I have only non-Adobe tools, which is more by accident, but, anyway, 
 this kind of contradicts what he says about non openess of the platform.

Yes, but that's not the point he's making. He's saying they see Flash crashing 
macs more often than any other technology. They think it's insecure and 
inefficient and doesn't run well on their platform and they see an open 
alternative that they believe both performs better and makes better commercial 
sense for them, so that's what they are choosing to use.


 
 I also think that the main profit from banning other popular development 
 tools like .NET and Java from Macs Apple may hope for good revenues from 
 selling their development tools...

Their development tools are free, go get them - 
http://developer.apple.com/technologies/xcode.html. So, interesting idea, but 
wrong.

 Think about that due to iProducts popularity the popularity of Obj-C grew a 
 lot. It was a marginal language in terms of penetration until iPhone... So, 
 they may hope to build a community of developers, who would develop in this 
 language and thus became dependent on Apple's tools and the entire 
 ecosystem... well, just like there's a lot of C# programmers in the world, 
 not because it's the best language ever, but because of the demand.

Yes, of course, I'm sure they do hope the success of the iPhone, iPad and the 
Mac in general will help drive developers to their platforms. What is your 
point?

 
 I think that Mac world sees the surrounding world from the entrenchment 
 level, it's like after all those years! they are going to win one marketing 
 war. They won't think about that their victory may turn into much larger 
 loss on a general scale. Like, what good will come out of promoting obsolete 
 technologies like HTML and JavaScript?

LOL. Obsolete? Please. If you think that you are totally misguided.

 And that's after it's been proven many times that the disadvantages are 
 inherent to the technology and it is probably seeing it's last years... Well, 
 for me going back to making web apps in HTML and JavaScript would be like 
 dark ages comparing to any technology, not necessarily Flash, that offers 
 compiled language and better integration with the native API... 

No, Flash is not going to ever dominate in the way you imagine. Ever. It will 
see a decline over time as people adopt HTML5, and competing products such as 
Silverlight. I think it will continue to be the most-used plug-in for some 
time, but I think the need for it will wane over time.

Think about it. What is Flash MOSTLY used for today? Video players and simple 
animations? Both of those can and will soon be done in HTML 5. RIAs will 
continue to be done in Flash/Flex/Silverlight for years to come, but the 
ubiquity of Flash as a runtime will wane as the need most users have for it 
today evaporates over the next few years.

 
 There may be to many marketing factors involved, of which I have little 
 knowledge... and this may sound out of place... but, what would be if Abobe 
 have cooperated with projects like HaXe and GNash? Or, offer to download the 
 SWFTools' AS3 compiler along with Flex / Flash Builder? Or, at least bring 
 their existence to the public attention somehow. 

What would that achieve? People who want those things today know where to get 
them. Adobe, rightly, has no interest in 

Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Oleg Sivokon
mitek17

This is just a thought regarding matrix transformation applied to visual
components in flex framework. Firstly, you cannot make it bindable, but not
so fast... I find i perfect! Trying to animate flex components and make it
smooth is a pain, especially because of binding and all the extra
architecture added on top of DisplayObject properties. So, maybe even if
you don't find it convenient, there may be a different point of view on this
matter.
Speaking in more general sense, there are bugs, of course, and especially
painful are those of sound and timeline... But, the worst thing is that
flash isn't progressing for real in last years. Flex framework is just a
project built using the available tools - I don't think there is a point in
asking flex people to do more or improve stuff... how flash behaves is in
general above their responsibility... However, we have a bad example right
next to us, which is Java... it totally looks like it is on it's way to
became history - no improvements to the language in years, no new
releases... I think that if Adobe won't work in direction of making more
dramatic changes to the language and how the runtime works we may find
ourselves one day obsoleted... That's precisely why I mentioned other
technologies targeting flash platform, and I believe that if Adobe
cooperated with them better we might hope for a different future :)

Guy Morton.

I've said that before, he is not wrong, he's just serving the facts in a way
that will most likely give you a wrong impression.
He never says that h.264 codec is proprietary, but after reading what he
says you may think it is. It may also create a wrong impression, when he
says that flash had recently learned to play those videos using h/w
rendering. The technology was released about 6 years ago, but if you compare
that to dinosaurs, than it may in fact sound like very recently :) Well, if
you know the context, then it doesn't look that bad, but the less savvy
people will understand it very differently.
Oh, one more thing regarding the openness of the platform. On my Linux
installation I have HaXe and SWFTools compilers, GNash player (I have
Adobe's player too, but I'm testing against both players) and I do the
coding in AXDT and VIM with AS language coloring - none of these tools has
anything to do with Adobe, and all of them are OSS of different kinds. So,
his statement about flash being proprietary is not correct, however, you may
put many different meanings in that word, so, it may happen that some of
those meanings would not be false...
He also doesn't mention that what and how Apple had implemented in HTML5 is
not a standard, because HTML5 isn't a standard. It is about to became
standard in 2 years from now. You may call that pushing technology
forward, but, then you would have to agree to call ActiveX a standard and a
technology break-through...
Is that called baked facts in proper English? :)


Re: [flexcoders] Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton

On 30/04/2010, at 7:50 AM, Seth Caldwell wrote:

 
 Steve is employing several tactics used by politicians. The iphone is not 
 “open”. Their app store is a money making machine and they guard it fiercely. 
 If their web browser was able to deliver flash content, there would be no 
 need to deliver apps as you could just have a set of bookmarks of flash apps.
 
If that was the reason why not allow Flash apps to be created using Adobe's 
iPhone packager?

Everyone's got a conspiracy theory, but I don't see too many people actually 
thinking through and rationally evaluating the arguments that Jobs has made. 
Conspiracy theories are easier and more fun I guess.

 How much money have they made off silly little animated games selling for 
 $1.99 that were developed YEARS ago in flash that had to be redeveloped for 
 their platform? And they have control over approving what apps are allowed.
 
So?

How much money have Flash developers made from making silly little games that 
were developed YEARS ago in C or assembler that had to be redeveloped in 
Actionscript?
 He says that apple gave adobe some  support to make a flash player for the 
 mac… if that is the case perhaps those engineers purposely made it buggy on 
 their platform so people wouldn’t want to use flash? It’s no coincidence that 
 they are driving the “html 5” standard to fit within their own codebase, 
 which gives their developers a lead since they are the ones writing the code 
 that interprets/renders that content and others will have to do the slower 
 reverse-engineering which puts their platforms behind in the race. Every inch 
 counts.
 
Rubbish. Every major modern browser is implementing HTML 5. HTML 5 support is 
well under way in Opera and Mozilla, and Google Chrome (the best browser for 
Windows) uses the WebKit engine. The only holdout on standards adoption has 
been Microsoft and even they are now getting on board.
 
  Personally, I’m switching from my iphone to nexus… html 5 does not have 
 anywhere near the level of development tools that flash does… when my phone 
 can run an air app I will be a very happy camper indeed. I would bet all the 
 money in my bank account that we will have flash on a phone this year, so 
 just hold tight.
 
Sure, but so what? You'll have html 5 on that phone too, probably. I don't 
think that proves anything.

 Don’t drink Steve’s koolaid guys… he’s declared war and the tactics he’s 
 using, the insults he’s throwing about adobe not being “open” and so on… they 
 are just plain immature.
 
The standard of argument against his posting that I've seen on this list is 
MUCH lower.

Not being open is not an insult, and it's a fact. 

I think you should carefully re-read his arguments so you understand them.

It's not koolaid, it's a pina-colada, and he's making it plain you can take it 
or leave it.

 When the iphone first came out I loved it. I put an apple sticker on my 
 motorcycle helmet after having been a PC guy my entire life. But now.. now 
 I’m tearing that sticker off. I am shamed to represent this man.
 
And you think Steve Jobs is being immature...?

Guy
 



Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton

On 01/05/2010, at 11:37 AM, Oleg Sivokon wrote:

 
 Guy Morton.
 
 I've said that before, he is not wrong, he's just serving the facts in a way 
 that will most likely give you a wrong impression.
 He never says that h.264 codec is proprietary, but after reading what he says 
 you may think it is.

I disagree with your reading of his post. He says nothing to indicate that 
h.264 is even SLIGHTLY proprietary.

 It may also create a wrong impression, when he says that flash had recently 
 learned to play those videos using h/w rendering. The technology was released 
 about 6 years ago, but if you compare that to dinosaurs, than it may in fact 
 sound like very recently :) Well, if you know the context, then it doesn't 
 look that bad, but the less savvy people will understand it very differently.

He is pretty clearly speaking from the point of view of Flash's support of 
Apple's platforms.

 Oh, one more thing regarding the openness of the platform. On my Linux 
 installation I have HaXe and SWFTools compilers, GNash player (I have Adobe's 
 player too, but I'm testing against both players) and I do the coding in AXDT 
 and VIM with AS language coloring - none of these tools has anything to do 
 with Adobe, and all of them are OSS of different kinds. So, his statement 
 about flash being proprietary is not correct, however, you may put many 
 different meanings in that word, so, it may happen that some of those 
 meanings would not be false...

No, they're not. Flash is a proprietary *technology*. Only Adobe can say where 
it's heading, and how. There are open-source *tools* for making it, that's all.

 He also doesn't mention that what and how Apple had implemented in HTML5 is 
 not a standard, because HTML5 isn't a standard. It is about to became 
 standard in 2 years from now. You may call that pushing technology forward, 
 but, then you would have to agree to call ActiveX a standard and a technology 
 break-through...
 Is that called baked facts in proper English? :)

If you've been around long enough to know how these things work you will see 
that they usually get a groundswell of support for elements of the proposal 
being built into browsers and used long before the w3c completes it's work. 
However, knowing what is proposed for the standard certainly helps to get all 
browsers aligned in terms of behaviour and capabilities, and the groundswell of 
support for various things is usually pretty obvious and reflects the demand 
for those features from developers and users.

ActiveX was always a bad idea as it could never be ported to platforms other 
than Windows. The web is about interoperability, something it took MS a long 
time to figure out.

Guy


 
 



[flexcoders] MS - The future of the web is HTML 5

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/

and

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2010/04/29/html5-video.aspx


So, I wonder if the Steve/Apple bashing will now move on to MS-bashing? I'm 
guessing not...

Reposted here for posterity, from 
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/:

Where Steve Jobs leads, Microsoft follows -- how's that for shaking up the 
hornet's nest? It's said in jest, of course, but we've just come across a post 
from the General Manager for Internet Explorer, Dean Hachamovitch, and the 
perspective expressed by him on the subject of web content delivery broadly 
agrees with the essay penned by Jobs yesterday on the very same subject. 
Echoing the Apple CEO's words, Hachamovitch describes HTML5 as the future of 
the web, praising it for allowing content to be played without the need for 
plug-ins and with native hardware acceleration (in both Windows 7 and Mac OS 
X). He goes on to identify H.264 as the best video codec for the job -- so much 
so that it'll be the only one supported in IE9's HTML5 implementation -- before 
turning to the dreaded subject of Flash. 

This is where it gets good, because he literally repeats one of Jobs' six 
pillars of Flash hate: reliability, security, and performance are not as good 
as Microsoft would like them. Where Hachamovitch diverges from Apple's messiah, 
however, is in describing Flash as an important part of a good consumer 
experience on today's web, primarily because it's difficult for the typical 
consumer to access Flash-free content. Still, it's got to be depressing for 
Adobe's crew when the best thing either of the two biggest players in tech has 
to say about your wares is that they're ubiquitous. Wonder how Shantanu Narayen 
is gonna try and spin this one.

P.S. : it's notable that in multiple paragraphs of discussing the future, 
Microsoft's IE general fails to once mention the fabled Silverlight, itself a 
rich media browser plug-in. Given Silverlight's featured role in the Windows 
Phone 7 infrastructure and other things like Netflix, we doubt it's on the 
outs, but there are sure to be some sour faces greeting Hachamovitch this 
morning.


And from http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2010/04/29/html5-video.aspx

There’s been a lot of posting about video and video formats on the web 
recently. This is a good opportunity to talk about Microsoft’s point of view.

The future of the web is HTML5. Microsoft is deeply engaged in the HTML5 
process with the W3C. HTML5 will be very important in advancing rich, 
interactive web applications and site design. The HTML5 specification describes 
video support without specifying a particular video format. We think H.264 is 
an excellent format. In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 
video only.

H.264 is an industry standard, with broad and strong hardware support. Because 
of this standardization, you can easily take what you record on a typical 
consumer video camera, put it on the web, and have it play in a web browser on 
any operating system or device with H.264 support (e.g. a PC with Windows 7). 
Recently, we publicly showed IE9 playing H.264-encoded video from YouTube.  You 
can read about the benefits of hardware acceleration here, or see an example of 
the benefits at the 26:35 mark here. For all these reasons, we’re focusing our 
HTML5 video support on H.264.

Other codecs often come up in these discussions. The distinction between the 
availability of source code and the ownership of the intellectual property in 
that available source code is critical. Today, intellectual property rights for 
H.264 are broadly available through a well-defined program managed by MPEG LA.  
 The rights to other codecs are often less clear, as has been described in the 
press.  Of course, developers can rely on the H.264 codec and hardware 
acceleration support of the underlying operating system, like Windows 7, 
without paying any additional royalty.

Today, video on the web is predominantly Flash-based. While video may be 
available in other formats, the ease of accessing video using just a browser on 
a particular website without using Flash is a challenge for typical consumers. 
Flash does have some issues, particularly around reliability, security, and 
performance. We work closely with engineers at Adobe, sharing information about 
the issues we know of in ongoing technical discussions. Despite these issues, 
Flash remains an important part of delivering a good consumer experience on 
today’s web.

Dean Hachamovitch
General Manager, Internet Explorer



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Groups Links

* 

Re: [flexcoders] MS - The future of the web is HTML 5

2010-04-30 Thread David Adams
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Guy Morton g...@alchemy.com.au wrote:
 http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/30/microsoft-weighs-in-the-future-of-the-web-is-html5/

 and

 http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2010/04/29/html5-video.aspx


 So, I wonder if the Steve/Apple bashing will now move on to MS-bashing? I'm 
 guessing not...

I think it's a pain that Apple won't allow Flash on their devices and
are blocking cross-compiling. I personally like Flex because it seems
to be the best way to make cross-platform RIA apps these days - it's a
whole lot faster and easier than using a JS framework. I'd really like
to see the platform continue to improve and flourish.

With that said, Adobe needs to lift their game in some areas. Not
picking on Flex or Flash here, but Adobe has really become the new
Microsoft when it comes to security problems. PDF exploits, as an
example, have been in the news a lot this year. Apple and Microsoft
both make patching/updating the OS and various critical components a
pretty smooth experience. Adobe? I'm technical and fail more often
than not. The most reliable thing to do is to download the full
installer for the product (if you can find the right version) and
install from scratch. Not good.


Re: [flexcoders] Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Oleg Sivokon
Guy Morton

Oh, I haven't seen your previous reply. Sorry.
AS3 and h.246 codec support were available in 2005... just so you know.
Also, there's a free version of Visual Studio (which I like and use a lot,
and the same way you can say that MS development tools are free), however,
this wasn't my point - Apple profits from selling their OS / software - the
more developers see it profitable to develop against their API, the more it
will pay back to Apple because it will escalate like this: you need software
- you need the OS to run it, you get the OS, you find out there's more
software you want and so on. This is good for Apple, but is bad for me
personally - I don't like their technology (I'm a long time Mac user, but
long time ago - I've used to work on G3-G4 computers). What their success
will mean for me is that I would rather have to adapt to the language that I
don't like, or I will have less job opportunities in the language I do like.
For my manager that would mean that if the company wants to support multiple
platforms they would need to hire more personal, buy more software (btw,
since when Mac OS became a freeware?). Apple doesn't care about that (not
that others care a lot, but that's not the point).

Why do I think that HTML and JavaScript are dead for *web application *(if
your mail doesn't support HTML formating, web application is in
strong/strong). This is because it is:
- compiled in browser (nothing you can do with it, the JavaScript not
compiled in browser is ActionScript, well, at least the version implemented
by Mozilla).
- inefficient rendering model. It is not because of the implementation, it
is engraved in the design, HTML / SVG are bad for describing graphics, HTML
is for text. Using HTML to make graphic content is similar to making
typography in MSWord, or book illustration in Excell (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YG_WWZYqUs ) I find it awesome btw :)
- Absolutely no tools for basic optimizations, everything in the language is
reflection - zillions of loops where you could use references or
pointers... JavaScript performs many orders of magnitude worse than native
code, and it is not only because of how it is implemented, it is the
feature of the language, it can never work even close to what your
computer may do.

The side effects, which are not inherent to the technology, but also
associated with it are these: most of the JavaScript code I've seen so far
is a very low grade code, be it JQuery, Prototype and so on - it's lame...
:) It looks even worse then other mature now languages looked like back in
90-s...
90% of all HTML pages found on the web don't validate in the free validators
provided by Mozilla and W3C. They are bad software!
All current browsers except FireFox are running JavaScript 1.5 (or somewhat
compatible JScript 5.5) version - do you know when this standard was
established? It is even funny to think about those tools as real programming
tools. It is only because of the browsers war that this technology still
survives, it should've been dead decades ago and take it's proper place next
to Turbo Basic in the computer science museum :) The high demand and no
alternative is what is keeping it alive. The technology is crap, it's
amazing how one can be so blind to not see that.

I am not a Flash fan, actually, I'm waiting for NaCl to get strength. My
greatest ambition was to design an on-line video editor. It didn't quite
work in Flash, but, if I think about JavaScript... oh well... :) What I mean
is - web applications should be applications, JavaScript is a tool to script
an application, but it's not a tool for writing one.
Or, just to give you another example - World of Warcraft :) It is a web
application if you want! It connects to the internet and it uses the same
computer, that your browser does! Would you think of making that in HTML5
and JavaScript? Why do you think it's ridiculous? It's not, it's basically
the same technology! :) And that's where internet is heading to -
applications, not pages.

Regarding what you say about those tools: well, you see, most developers
are unaware of them. It may never appear to the AS3 people how much they are
missing when they don't have generics, templates, inlining and so on. While,
I think that, this is mutually dependent - if you have smarter developer in
your community, it is more likely to make better products - better products
will make joining the community more attractive for others - you will get
better developers on your side. As a side effect, the community members may
contribute to the development of the technology as a whole.

Sorry for the flame, and if I made you tired reading this. I really hope you
or anyone reading this doesn't take this as a personal offence. After all
it's a metal box and the small lights flushing inside of it :)

PS. In my previous post there was a mistake:

He never says that h.264 codec is proprietary, but after reading what he
says you may think it is.
Should read:
He never says 

Re: [flexcoders] Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Guy Morton
I think you are blurring the boundaries between networked applications and web 
applications.

Web applications run in a web browser and ideally use web standards to make 
their content 100% interoperable on different devices and platforms. That's a 
foundational idea of the web, after all.

Networked applications can be written for any device or platform you want to 
support, and can use whatever protocol they like to communicate over the 
network.

Flash/AIR will continue to be a good way to develop applications that can run 
on multiple platforms and devices but the fact that they are delivered through 
a web browser has always been a bit of a hack, insofar as Flash provided 
functionality that web browsers lacked and so was used to add missing features 
but that it also deviated from what the web is supposed to be about. They 
really are more like networked applications that happen to be wrapped in html, 
than web applications.

I see this debate as a healthy one about re-establishing what the web needs to 
be able to do, and the benefits of standards.

I also think it's worth re-evaluating the tools we use and the outcomes we want 
and how best to get there. 

There are many web apps out there today that use modern web technologies to do 
things that you used to need Flash for. That's a good thing as it leads to 
better interoperable on different devices and platforms. That doesn't mean 
there isn't a place for different technologies, like Flash, to deliver other 
types of applications on specific platforms or devices, but we should certainly 
start to reevaluate whether Flash really == Web Applications.

Guy


On 01/05/2010, at 12:38 PM, Oleg Sivokon wrote:

 
 Guy Morton
 
 Oh, I haven't seen your previous reply. Sorry.
 AS3 and h.246 codec support were available in 2005... just so you know.
 Also, there's a free version of Visual Studio (which I like and use a lot, 
 and the same way you can say that MS development tools are free), however, 
 this wasn't my point - Apple profits from selling their OS / software - the 
 more developers see it profitable to develop against their API, the more it 
 will pay back to Apple because it will escalate like this: you need software 
 - you need the OS to run it, you get the OS, you find out there's more 
 software you want and so on. This is good for Apple, but is bad for me 
 personally - I don't like their technology (I'm a long time Mac user, but 
 long time ago - I've used to work on G3-G4 computers). What their success 
 will mean for me is that I would rather have to adapt to the language that I 
 don't like, or I will have less job opportunities in the language I do like. 
 For my manager that would mean that if the company wants to support multiple 
 platforms they would need to hire more personal, buy more software (btw, 
 since when Mac OS became a freeware?). Apple doesn't care about that (not 
 that others care a lot, but that's not the point).
 
 Why do I think that HTML and JavaScript are dead for web application (if your 
 mail doesn't support HTML formating, web application is in 
 strong/strong). This is because it is:
 - compiled in browser (nothing you can do with it, the JavaScript not 
 compiled in browser is ActionScript, well, at least the version implemented 
 by Mozilla).
 - inefficient rendering model. It is not because of the implementation, it is 
 engraved in the design, HTML / SVG are bad for describing graphics, HTML is 
 for text. Using HTML to make graphic content is similar to making typography 
 in MSWord, or book illustration in Excell (  
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YG_WWZYqUs ) I find it awesome btw :)
 - Absolutely no tools for basic optimizations, everything in the language is 
 reflection - zillions of loops where you could use references or pointers... 
 JavaScript performs many orders of magnitude worse than native code, and it 
 is not only because of how it is implemented, it is the feature of the 
 language, it can never work even close to what your computer may do.
 
 The side effects, which are not inherent to the technology, but also 
 associated with it are these: most of the JavaScript code I've seen so far is 
 a very low grade code, be it JQuery, Prototype and so on - it's lame... :) It 
 looks even worse then other mature now languages looked like back in 90-s...
 90% of all HTML pages found on the web don't validate in the free validators 
 provided by Mozilla and W3C. They are bad software!
 All current browsers except FireFox are running JavaScript 1.5 (or somewhat 
 compatible JScript 5.5) version - do you know when this standard was 
 established? It is even funny to think about those tools as real programming 
 tools. It is only because of the browsers war that this technology still 
 survives, it should've been dead decades ago and take it's proper place next 
 to Turbo Basic in the computer science museum :) The high demand and no 
 alternative is what is keeping it alive. The technology is 

[flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Amy


--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, Guy Morton g...@... wrote:

 Oh dude, come on, that's low. 
 
 Either agree or disagree with what he says (I agree with most of it - HTML5 
 et al can replace the need for a lot of what Flash often does, and it's 
 support is growing and standards are good for all of us) but don't make it 
 personal.

It may be low, but there's a certain amount of logic to it, considering when 
Steve Jobs was out, he was given a liver transplant.  In ancient times, the 
liver was considered to be the seat of anger.  MPO is that there's been a lot 
of angry behavior coming out of Apple lately, and not just aimed at Adobe.



Re: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

2010-04-30 Thread Angelo Anolin
Just my 2 cents.

The way I see it, I'd rather focus on creating better, bigger and greater 
applications with Adobe/Flex which my users/customers will love rather than 
sulk in a corner because some guy is imposing his stupidity on what I can 
provide.






From: Amy amyblankens...@bellsouth.net
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 20:54:20
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: Thoughts on Flash by Steve Jobs

  


--- In flexcod...@yahoogro ups.com, Guy Morton g...@... wrote:

 Oh dude, come on, that's low. 
 
 Either agree or disagree with what he says (I agree with most of it - HTML5 
 et al can replace the need for a lot of what Flash often does, and it's 
 support is growing and standards are good for all of us) but don't make it 
 personal.

It may be low, but there's a certain amount of logic to it, considering when 
Steve Jobs was out, he was given a liver transplant.  In ancient times, the 
liver was considered to be the seat of anger.  MPO is that there's been a lot 
of angry behavior coming out of Apple lately, and not just aimed at Adobe.


 


  

Re: [flexcoders] Re: XMLListCollection DataGrid Performance vs Any Other DataProvider Type

2010-04-30 Thread Angelo Anolin
I know a bit of converting my XML data into array collection which I can use as 
DP for my data-based controls.

I want to get some good examples on what Alex posted to convert the 
xmllistcollection to class instances.  

I was just thinking cause, xmllistcollection can be definitely bound as a 
dataprovider to a flex control but if I am going to convert the  
xmllistcollection to a class instance and use that class as dataprovider for 
the control, then the overhead may be too much to actually ponder on?






From: jamesfin james.alan.finni...@gmail.com
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 30 April, 2010 7:46:57
Subject: [flexcoders] Re: XMLListCollection DataGrid Performance vs Any Other 
DataProvider Type

  


This code will convert for you...

You need to replace the xmllist.myxmldata with your own xml structure names.

private function convertXmlToArrayCo llection( myxml:String ):ArrayCollection
{
var xml:XMLDocument = new XMLDocument( myxml );

var decoder:SimpleXMLDe coder = new SimpleXMLDecoder( );
var data:Object = decoder.decodeXML( xml );

var array:Array = ArrayUtil.toArray( data.xmllist. myxmldata) ;

return new ArrayCollection( array );
}

A quick follow-up after I made this tweak to use objects vs xml.

In my case, performance increased by about 20% when scrolling on a 24 monitor 
browser full-size by reducing the number of renderers from 10 to 3.  I then 
pre-translated the original xml data in the conversion so that I didn't need to 
do it with a label function. 

Performance is now acceptable in full-screen (24) mode.

Bottom-line, avoid renderers.  Label functions are better but are still taxing 
on the performance if there is a bunch of computing going on in those 
functions.  Pre-render data when converting from xml to objects.

--- In flexcod...@yahoogro ups.com, Alex Harui aha...@... wrote:

 I don't know of any links off-hand.  I would simply create a class with the 
 set of properties you are interested in, then take the XML and parse it into 
 instances of that class.
 
 You can try to get XMLDecoder to do it, but sometimes it is more efficient 
 just to write your own converter.
 
 
 On 4/29/10 7:50 PM, Angelo Anolin angelo_anolin@ ... wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Any link to show us some samples?
 
 My data is coming from a .NET backend and most of it are in XML format and 
 parsed into XMLListCollection.
 
 Would appreciate some more info on this.
 
 THanks.
 
  _ _ __
 From: Alex Harui aha...@...
 To: flexcod...@yahoogro ups.com flexcod...@yahoogro ups.com
 Sent: Wed, 28 April, 2010 21:49:52
 Subject: Re: [flexcoders] XMLListCollection DataGrid Performance vs Any Other 
 DataProvider Type
 
 
 
 
 Convert the XML to Class instances.
 
 
 On 4/28/10 10:06 AM, jamesfin james.alan. finnigan @gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Here's the scenario...
 
 Simple datagrid with XMLListCollection data provider.
 
 Average collection size is 200 rows of XML (shown below)
 
 10 columns in the datagrid with a unique item renderer for each.  1 Column 
 can display 1 of 10 embedded images depending on an xml attribute.
 
 AS3-only Renderers are highly optimized.
 
 Average visible rows = 30 (simultaneously visible rows / meaning at least 300 
 renderers being recycled when scrolling?
 
 Typical XML row data
 
 foodata fooid=4997 fooid2=0 fooid3=2909 foot=9 startdate=2010- 
 04-09 13:45:00 enddate=2010- 04-09 14:45:00 foost=1 fooname=New Foobar 
 foosub=More Foobardata fooloc=false fooonly=false 
 /foodata
 
 When all said and done being loaded, vertical scrolling is noticeably slow on 
 a new iMac (Safari or Firefox with latest FlashPlayer) compared to a stripped 
 down non-XML data provider version which scrolls quickly.
 
 Googling consensus shows that XMLListCollection is not the optimal 
 dataprovider in this scenario and that XML in general is not the best choice 
 if it can be avoided.
 
 Can anybody shed any light on a better way to improve scrolling performance 
 based upon this scenario?
 
 Thanks in advance.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 --
 Alex Harui
 Flex SDK Team
 Adobe System, Inc.
 http://blogs. adobe.com/ aharui