Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

[Alex Harui]

If you’ve written a lot of code in ActionScript, writing code in JavaScript can 
feel like a regression.  Right now, there are trade-offs in the Flash stack and 
the HTML stack.  Adobe is not saying that you should stop writing applications 
in Flash/Flex and move to HTML/JS/CSS today.  My summary is that, based on the 
recent track record of the HTML/JS/CSS stack, there are a lot of folks doing 
great things on that stack, and we are investing in becoming the leading tool 
provider for that stack.  That takes time and we are starting now.  Also note 
that Google is trying to replace the JS portion of that stack with a structured 
programming language.  I would not bet against that eventually happening, but 
it is unclear that it will be DART.  The HTML/JS/CSS stack has a lot of people 
working on it, and they are working together, and Adobe is joining that party.

Today and tomorrow and for some number of years, Flash and Flex remain the best 
solution for a significant number of applications, and Adobe is betting that by 
moving Flex to Apache, Flex will enjoy the benefits of a lot of people working 
on it, and working together.  The Flash Player will be getting faster and will 
have new features, and while most of those will be motivated by the gaming 
initiative, some of those improvements will benefit non-games as well.

If you want to be one of the many people working together on Flex, watch for 
announcements we hope to make if we get accepted by Apache.

-Alex


On 12/18/11 9:45 AM, "Glenn Williams"  wrote:






The samples are ok, but it’s the actual langue I dislike.

I just doesn’t feel very complete to me.

I really don’t want to take a step back when I was in fact hoping to be getting 
a new version of action script that moved the main language even further 
forward.

The whole situation just feels like a regression to me.


From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Rick Winscot
Sent: 18 December 2011 01:29
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product



The charts? The dashboard? The app as a whole? Yes… I'd recommend looking into 
the ExtJS samples at Sencha.



http://www.sencha.com/products/extjs/





From: Dave Glasser 
Reply-To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:22:39 -0800 (PST)
To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com  " 

Subject: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product





Ca! n you do something comparable to this with HTML5/JS/CSS?

http://examples2.idashboards.com/idashboards/?guestuser=wputil1&dashID=260

If so, do you have any links to examples?


From: Guy Morton mailto:guy%40alchemy.com.au> >

Using HTML/JS/CSS you CAN do apps that look every bit as nice as Flash apps, 
and they run everywhere.






--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe System, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui

[flexcoders] Future of Flex

[Jimmi Prajapati]

http://www.jimmiprajapati.com/?p=70

Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

[Csomák Gábor]

think of it this way:
you have a very good opportunity, because you can choose. most bosses tell
you, which language you'll need to program in. so i'd be happy in your
place. you can cry about a language you don't even use.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Glenn Williams wrote:

>
>
> The samples are ok, but it’s the actual langue I dislike.
>
>
>
> I just doesn’t feel very complete to me.
>
>
>
> I really don’t want to take a step back when I was in fact hoping to be
> getting a new version of action script that moved the main language even
> further forward.
>
>
>
> The whole situation just feels like a regression to me.
>
>
>
> *From:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com [mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Rick Winscot
> *Sent:* 18 December 2011 01:29
> *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] You are the product
>
>
>
>
>
> The charts? The dashboard? The app as a whole? Yes… I'd recommend looking
> into the ExtJS samples at Sencha.
>
>
>
> http://www.sencha.com/products/extjs/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Dave Glasser 
> *Reply-To: *"flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
> *Date: *Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:22:39 -0800 (PST)
> *To: *"flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
> *Subject: *Re: [flexcoders] You are the product
>
>
>
>
>
> Can you do something comparable to this with HTML5/JS/CSS?
>
> http://examples2.idashboards.com/idashboards/?guestuser=wputil1&dashID=260
>
> If so, do you have any links to examples?
>
> 
> From: Guy Morton 
>
> Using HTML/JS/CSS you CAN do apps that look every bit as nice as Flash
> apps, and they run everywhere.
>  
>

RE: [flexcoders] You are the product

[Glenn Williams]

The samples are ok, but it's the actual langue I
dislike.

 

I just doesn't feel very complete to me. 

 

I really don't want to take a step back when I was
in fact hoping to be getting a new version of
action script that moved the main language even
further forward.

 

The whole situation just feels like a regression
to me.

 

From: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:flexcoders@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Rick Winscot
Sent: 18 December 2011 01:29
To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

 

  

The charts? The dashboard? The app as a whole?
Yes. I'd recommend looking into the ExtJS samples
at Sencha. 

 

http://www.sencha.com/products/extjs/

 

 

From: Dave Glasser 
Reply-To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com"

Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:22:39 -0800 (PST)
To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com"

Subject: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

 

  

Can you do something comparable to this with
HTML5/JS/CSS?

http://examples2.idashboards.com/idashboards/?gues
tuser=wputil1
 &dashID=260

If so, do you have any links to examples?


From: Guy Morton mailto:guy%40alchemy.com.au> >

Using HTML/JS/CSS you CAN do apps that look every
bit as nice as Flash apps, and they run
everywhere.

[flexcoders] Re: applicationupdater

[DavidW]

I found the answer...

the first line is missing from Air Luanhcpad, the next two were wrong. Line 2 
says 1.0 and where it says versionNumber, it did say version!


http://ns.adobe.com/air/framework/update/description/2.5";>
  1.06

Hours of wasted time!
Hope this saves someone else the time that I put into this unnecessarily.


--- In flexcoders@yahoogroups.com, "DavidW"  wrote:
>
> I am running Flex 4.5 on a mac and I am about ready to release, but
> the auto update aint working...
> 
> It is the final thing before release.
> I keep getting the error There was an error checking for updates. Error# 16831
> 
> Online there are various implementations I feel like I have been through them 
> all!
> 
> Anyone use autoupdater who could cut the code and an example xml file that 
> works, at least I might stand a chance. I tried using Air Launchpad to build 
> the application, but no joy there either... thoughts?
>

Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

[Haykel BEN JEMIA]

Interesting answers but they almost all are based on the assumption that
you have much time and enough money to waste. You can do almost everything
with HTML/JS/CSS, but for many things you will require much (really much)
more time than with Flash. I say 'almost' because there are things you
can't do, an example is applications using peer-assisted networking
(peer-to-peer), which is a realworld project I'm working on currently.

Let's stop this war because both technologies are complementary and there
are things you should do with one technology and others with other
technologies.

Now regarding the attitude of Adobe, it's true that the way they did the
annoucement was not 'friendly', but it was actually a logical decision.
There is no flash application on the web that was designed with mobile
devices in mind. Users generally install apps on their devices and we have
AIR for that, especially with the new native extensions there is no
limitations to what you can do anymore. Developing using Flash and native
languages for extensions is a new way of developing applications and it
should be the same for web apps, where we develop with Flash and HTML.

The reality is that every technology has its advantages and as a developer
you have to know when to use each one.

Haykel Ben Jemia

Allmas
Web & RIA Development
http://www.allmas-tn.com




On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Rick Winscot wrote:

> **
>
>
> Uh… the original question is pretty simple - "can you do anything [ like
> the link provided ] in HTML / CSS?" The short answer is, "yes." Since you
> opened a can of worms… I'll bite.
>
> "Specs not yet finished…" blah blah blah. If you're looking for a language
> to get carved in stone before you write a line of code… good luck. There
> are plenty of apps out there that are working just fine on 'draft'
> technology. Innovation typically drives change – not the other way around.
>
> "Newer features…" bah! If you find a browser that supports the features
> you must have… try to standardize on that browser if you can. If you can't…
> then cross that bridge if you have to come to it and not before. Getting
> your panties in a wad over something that isn't on your plate is a waste of
> time.
>
> "One code-base everywhere…" Urk. Really? I thought that was what Flash was
> supposed to do! Seriously… I don't know what you're trying to say here. If
> you need an HTML/CSS app that runs just about anywhere… wrap it in AIR and
> move on. Did he even state that it needs to run on desktop, mobile,
> tablets, and the voyager I spacecraft?
>
> "Any good programmer…" barf. I do get sick of pious comments like this. I
> mean – the guy just asked a simple question. Architecture is a subject best
> served after a developer has a chance to get cozy with the technology. I
> mean – I appreciate your desire to go deep on this question but really…
> milk before meat. The question was simple – if he needs more – let the
> subject blossom.
>
>
> From: Robert VanCuren Jr 
> Reply-To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
> Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 01:01:27 -0500
>
> To: "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
> Subject: Re: [flexcoders] You are the product
>
>
>
> There is no one size fits all solution if you want to build a complex
> application. Flash might be a good choice for one and HTML for another and
> you might need to go native depending on what you are trying to do. Maybe
> you even want to use Java or Silverlight!
>
> When you ask if you can do something in HTML5/JS/CSS you need to keep in
> mind that many of the specs are not yet finished. It will be several more
> years before they are even in the recommendation phase. So while it may be
> possible to do some things in some browsers HTML5/JS/CSS is far from being
> cross platform ready. Standards move slow by their nature and because of
> that browser vendors will release features before the standards are
> finished, many times that means that each browser will have a different API
> or implementation for the same feature.
>
> If you are going to use newer html features it is recommended that you
> only use the ones that are relatively stable. May of the really cool
> features that you will want to use are not yet production ready and should
> be avoided for a real project. Of course if you can limit your scope to a
> couple browsers there is a lot more you can do.
>
> All of that said you can make some really kick ass stuff using the HTML5,
> CSS3, and JavaScript. There are tons of libraries that will abstract out
> the browser specific things and attempt to make one code base work
> everywhere. Things like Modernizr, Three.js, Dojo, jQuery, EaselJS ,ect,
> ect. Even when using these libraries there are performance differences
> across devices and even browser versions. Making a web application that
> really works across platforms and devices is not a trivial task.
>
> Take a look at some of the stuff you can do
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/
> http://www.chromeexperiments.com/

Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

[Rick Winscot]

UhŠ the original question is pretty simple - "can you do anything [ like the
link provided ] in HTML / CSS?" The short answer is, "yes." Since you opened
a can of wormsŠ I'll bite.

"Specs not yet finishedŠ" blah blah blah. If you're looking for a language
to get carved in stone before you write a line of codeŠ good luck. There are
plenty of apps out there that are working just fine on 'draft' technology.
Innovation typically drives change ­ not the other way around.

"Newer featuresŠ" bah! If you find a browser that supports the features you
must haveŠ try to standardize on that browser if you can. If you can'tŠ then
cross that bridge if you have to come to it and not before. Getting your
panties in a wad over something that isn't on your plate is a waste of time.

"One code-base everywhereŠ" Urk. Really? I thought that was what Flash was
supposed to do! SeriouslyŠ I don't know what you're trying to say here. If
you need an HTML/CSS app that runs just about anywhereŠ wrap it in AIR and
move on. Did he even state that it needs to run on desktop, mobile, tablets,
and the voyager I spacecraft?

"Any good programmerŠ" barf. I do get sick of pious comments like this. I
mean ­ the guy just asked a simple question. Architecture is a subject best
served after a developer has a chance to get cozy with the technology. I
mean ­ I appreciate your desire to go deep on this question but reallyŠ milk
before meat. The question was simple ­ if he needs more ­ let the subject
blossom. 


From:  Robert VanCuren Jr 
Reply-To:  "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
Date:  Sun, 18 Dec 2011 01:01:27 -0500
To:  "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
Subject:  Re: [flexcoders] You are the product

 
 
 
   

There is no one size fits all solution if you want to build a complex
application. Flash might be a good choice for one and HTML for another and
you might need to go native depending on what you are trying to do. Maybe
you even want to use Java or Silverlight!

When you ask if you can do something in HTML5/JS/CSS you need to keep in
mind that many of the specs are not yet finished. It will be several more
years before they are even in the recommendation phase. So while it may be
possible to do some things in some browsers HTML5/JS/CSS is far from being
cross platform ready. Standards move slow by their nature and because of
that browser vendors will release features before the standards are
finished, many times that means that each browser will have a different API
or implementation for the same feature.

If you are going to use newer html features it is recommended that you only
use the ones that are relatively stable. May of the really cool features
that you will want to use are not yet production ready and should be avoided
for a real project. Of course if you can limit your scope to a couple
browsers there is a lot more you can do.

All of that said you can make some really kick ass stuff using the HTML5,
CSS3, and JavaScript. There are tons of libraries that will abstract out the
browser specific things and attempt to make one code base work everywhere.
Things like Modernizr, Three.js, Dojo, jQuery, EaselJS ,ect, ect. Even when
using these libraries there are performance differences across devices and
even browser versions. Making a web application that really works across
platforms and devices is not a trivial task.

Take a look at some of the stuff you can do
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/
http://www.chromeexperiments.com/

As any good developer knows you should always choose your technology on a
per project basis and not because one tech is cooler than the other. In many
cases it may be require to have multiple versions of your application to
cover your whole target market. The project I am currently working on has a
native Android and iOS app, along with an HTML5 and Flash version so that we
could get as much coverage as possible. Sure its a pain but if you really
want cross platform that is whats required.

Some things are not even possible with out a native app on certain devices.
Things like file I/O and Audio are very lacking in most browsers. Sometimes
you just have to go native.

Do not be afraid to learn a new language or two it will be good for you.
Also make sure to pick the right tech for what you are trying to build.
Again there is no holy grail that will let you write code once and work
absolutely everywhere, it just does not exist. Choose your tech wisely!

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 8:29 PM, Rick Winscot 
wrote:
>  
>  
>  
>
> 
> The charts? The dashboard? The app as a whole? YesŠ I'd recommend looking into
> the ExtJS samples at Sencha.
> 
> http://www.sencha.com/products/extjs/
> 
> 
> From:  Dave Glasser 
> Reply-To:  "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
> Date:  Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:22:39 -0800 (PST)
> To:  "flexcoders@yahoogroups.com" 
> 
> Subject:  Re: [flexcoders] You are the product
> 
>   
>
> 
> Can you do something comparable to this with HTML5/JS/CSS?
> 
> 
> 
> http://examples2.idashboards.com/id