Re: [Flexradio] Finding Noise

[Lee Mushel]

Frank, et al.:

When the sudden appearance of "noise" made use of all the HF frequencies 
impossible I naturally did what all able-bodied flexers would do:  I sent 
panadapter photos of the problem to all the sources I thought could help me 
including the ARRL.  I received absolutely no help.  Then I noticed that the 
noise was worst when using antennas closest to the highway---in other words, 
closest to the power line.  I then "worked my way" into the power company 
and while doing this had a visitor to the shack who was a retired 
maintenance supervisor.  I showed him the noise on the panadapter and I 
could tell he didn't know what to do with this information.   But he asked 
that I let him "listen."   He immediately told me that this was noise from 
an MOV and "not very far away."  A little later I got a phone call from the 
power company engineering department.  I told him what I had learned and was 
told  it would be looked into.


A few days later a very large tracked vehicle appeared which was used to 
access the steep valley and swampy area.   The trouble was gone!   No 
problem dealing with the utility.   I know that most people complain about a 
lack of interest/activity from power companies but I certainly didn't find 
that to be true.


73

Lee  K9WRU
- Original Message - 
From: "Frank N. Haas KB4T" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 3:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Finding Noise



I work for a large electric utility as an interference investigator. I make
my living finding all sorts of powerline-based and non-powerline based
interference sources. This is the Flex Radio reflector and not an
interference location list so I will try to be brief.



I realize that my comment here won't stop the practice of whacking, 
kicking,
bumping or tampering with utility equipment but I am compelled to say 
this:




Don't tamper with utility equipment. Resist the urge to take baseball 
bats,

sledgehammers, etc to any utility pole. It's both dangerous and illegal.



You do not have the right to do anything to a utility pole. How would you
feel if I, as the utility's interference investigator, came to your house
and whacked your tower with a sledgehammer? I'm sure you wouldn't 
appreciate

that nor is it legal for me to do so.



It's dangerous because one good whack could jar something loose and hit 
you

or, worse, injure you. I work with line crews quite frequently to correct
problems that cause interference. There is only one circumstance where a
hammer is used on a pole. Staples are hammered in to secure the bond
(ground) wire that runs down most poles to ground rods buried under the
pole. When line crew members hammer a pole they do so only after verifying
that nothing will fall on them.  Hydraulic tools are used to tighten nuts
but again only when it is deemed safe to do so.



In my experience, whacking a pole rarely produces any useful result. Real
direction finding yields the fastest results. Transformers are rare
offenders (at least in my area.) Loose hardware, faulty lightning 
arrestors

and broken bond (ground) wires are the most frequent offenders. When the
interference can be heard at VHF frequencies, the source is usually easy 
to

locate. When the source can't be heard above 7 or 8 MHz, it becomes more
challenging and often indicates a faulty transformer. Still none of my
direction finding techniques include kicking, whacking or jarring
equipment.at least not without a hard hat and a qualified eye.



Seek the assistance of the utility. Try to work with them to DF the 
source.

Leave the whacking, shaking, tinkering and other physical effort to
qualified line crews trained in doing such work safely. If the utility is
unresponsive or too sluggish in resolving your issue, contact your state
regulatory agency to "motivate" them to focus their efforts more
effectively.



Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!



73,



Frank N. Haas KB4T

Utility Interference Investigator

Florida USA

Flex 5Ka Owner



Original message:



Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:29:14 -0600
From: "Brad A. Steffler" http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz> >
To: flexradio at flex-radio.biz
<http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz>
Subject: [Flexradio] Waterfall and Power line noise - a secret weapon
Message-ID: <4D0E5D0A.4040700 at comcast.net
<http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks to all who have suggested other things to look at for as sources
of noise besides the power line.

 Two winters ago I had some noise that only occured on very cold
nights. I suspected a bad power transformer atop a pole. The problem was 
how

to identify the pole it was on. I'd like to share the two tricks I used.
You&

Re: [Flexradio] Finding Noise

[mchasse]

Well the best way to get a Utility company that does not want to fix their 
problems to get moving, is to file a complain with Laura Smith (Special 
Counsel) with the FCC.  I had a problem with my local company and they would 
not fix anything, until they got a letter from her with a 30 day deadline to 
correct the problems, before the fines were imposed on the company.  After 
that, they were working overtime to correct the problems.

Mike
KE7WRJ

--- k...@arrl.net wrote:

From: "Frank  N. Haas KB4T" 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Finding Noise
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 16:23:58 -0500

I work for a large electric utility as an interference investigator. I make
my living finding all sorts of powerline-based and non-powerline based
interference sources. This is the Flex Radio reflector and not an
interference location list so I will try to be brief. 

 

I realize that my comment here won't stop the practice of whacking, kicking,
bumping or tampering with utility equipment but I am compelled to say this: 

 

Don't tamper with utility equipment. Resist the urge to take baseball bats,
sledgehammers, etc to any utility pole. It's both dangerous and illegal. 

 

You do not have the right to do anything to a utility pole. How would you
feel if I, as the utility's interference investigator, came to your house
and whacked your tower with a sledgehammer? I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate
that nor is it legal for me to do so. 

 

It's dangerous because one good whack could jar something loose and hit you
or, worse, injure you. I work with line crews quite frequently to correct
problems that cause interference. There is only one circumstance where a
hammer is used on a pole. Staples are hammered in to secure the bond
(ground) wire that runs down most poles to ground rods buried under the
pole. When line crew members hammer a pole they do so only after verifying
that nothing will fall on them.  Hydraulic tools are used to tighten nuts
but again only when it is deemed safe to do so.

 

In my experience, whacking a pole rarely produces any useful result. Real
direction finding yields the fastest results. Transformers are rare
offenders (at least in my area.) Loose hardware, faulty lightning arrestors
and broken bond (ground) wires are the most frequent offenders. When the
interference can be heard at VHF frequencies, the source is usually easy to
locate. When the source can't be heard above 7 or 8 MHz, it becomes more
challenging and often indicates a faulty transformer. Still none of my
direction finding techniques include kicking, whacking or jarring
equipment.at least not without a hard hat and a qualified eye. 

 

Seek the assistance of the utility. Try to work with them to DF the source.
Leave the whacking, shaking, tinkering and other physical effort to
qualified line crews trained in doing such work safely. If the utility is
unresponsive or too sluggish in resolving your issue, contact your state
regulatory agency to "motivate" them to focus their efforts more
effectively. 

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

 

73,  

 

Frank N. Haas KB4T

Utility Interference Investigator 

Florida USA

Flex 5Ka Owner

 

Original message:

 

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:29:14 -0600
From: "Brad A. Steffler" http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz> >
To: flexradio at flex-radio.biz
<http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz> 
Subject: [Flexradio] Waterfall and Power line noise - a secret weapon
Message-ID: <4D0E5D0A.4040700 at comcast.net
<http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz> >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
Thanks to all who have suggested other things to look at for as sources 
of noise besides the power line.
 
 Two winters ago I had some noise that only occured on very cold
nights. I suspected a bad power transformer atop a pole. The problem was how
to identify the pole it was on. I'd like to share the two tricks I used.
You'll need a baseball bat.
 
I went down the block listening with an AM radio. When the noise increased I
whacked each pole with the baseball bat. When I hit the 3rd pole the noise
immediately changed. The vibration caused the pole to vibrate which
transfered into the transformer. A crude microphone! I also noticed a "red
light" atop the transformer which I later learned was an "over-temp"
indicator. When I called the local power company they agreed to check it.
Two days later, no more noise! I received a call from one of their engineers
who was amazed to hear how I found it. He commented that they had a $10K
instrument for doing what I did with a baseball bat and an AM radio!

 

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FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
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Re: [Flexradio] Finding Noise

[Frank N. Haas KB4T]

I work for a large electric utility as an interference investigator. I make
my living finding all sorts of powerline-based and non-powerline based
interference sources. This is the Flex Radio reflector and not an
interference location list so I will try to be brief. 

 

I realize that my comment here won't stop the practice of whacking, kicking,
bumping or tampering with utility equipment but I am compelled to say this: 

 

Don't tamper with utility equipment. Resist the urge to take baseball bats,
sledgehammers, etc to any utility pole. It's both dangerous and illegal. 

 

You do not have the right to do anything to a utility pole. How would you
feel if I, as the utility's interference investigator, came to your house
and whacked your tower with a sledgehammer? I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate
that nor is it legal for me to do so. 

 

It's dangerous because one good whack could jar something loose and hit you
or, worse, injure you. I work with line crews quite frequently to correct
problems that cause interference. There is only one circumstance where a
hammer is used on a pole. Staples are hammered in to secure the bond
(ground) wire that runs down most poles to ground rods buried under the
pole. When line crew members hammer a pole they do so only after verifying
that nothing will fall on them.  Hydraulic tools are used to tighten nuts
but again only when it is deemed safe to do so.

 

In my experience, whacking a pole rarely produces any useful result. Real
direction finding yields the fastest results. Transformers are rare
offenders (at least in my area.) Loose hardware, faulty lightning arrestors
and broken bond (ground) wires are the most frequent offenders. When the
interference can be heard at VHF frequencies, the source is usually easy to
locate. When the source can't be heard above 7 or 8 MHz, it becomes more
challenging and often indicates a faulty transformer. Still none of my
direction finding techniques include kicking, whacking or jarring
equipment.at least not without a hard hat and a qualified eye. 

 

Seek the assistance of the utility. Try to work with them to DF the source.
Leave the whacking, shaking, tinkering and other physical effort to
qualified line crews trained in doing such work safely. If the utility is
unresponsive or too sluggish in resolving your issue, contact your state
regulatory agency to "motivate" them to focus their efforts more
effectively. 

 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

 

73,  

 

Frank N. Haas KB4T

Utility Interference Investigator 

Florida USA

Flex 5Ka Owner

 

Original message:

 

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:29:14 -0600
From: "Brad A. Steffler" http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz> >
To: flexradio at flex-radio.biz
 
Subject: [Flexradio] Waterfall and Power line noise - a secret weapon
Message-ID: <4D0E5D0A.4040700 at comcast.net
 >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
 
Thanks to all who have suggested other things to look at for as sources 
of noise besides the power line.
 
 Two winters ago I had some noise that only occured on very cold
nights. I suspected a bad power transformer atop a pole. The problem was how
to identify the pole it was on. I'd like to share the two tricks I used.
You'll need a baseball bat.
 
I went down the block listening with an AM radio. When the noise increased I
whacked each pole with the baseball bat. When I hit the 3rd pole the noise
immediately changed. The vibration caused the pole to vibrate which
transfered into the transformer. A crude microphone! I also noticed a "red
light" atop the transformer which I later learned was an "over-temp"
indicator. When I called the local power company they agreed to check it.
Two days later, no more noise! I received a call from one of their engineers
who was amazed to hear how I found it. He commented that they had a $10K
instrument for doing what I did with a baseball bat and an AM radio!

 

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Re: [Flexradio] Finding Noise

[Ross Stenberg]

Al Capone was known to remove noise with a similar technique.

 Two winters ago I had some noise that only occured on very cold 
nights. I suspected a bad power transformer atop a pole. The problem was 
how to identify the pole it was on. I'd like to share the two tricks I 
used. You'll need a baseball bat.


I went down the block listening with an AM radio. When the noise increased 
I whacked each pole with the baseball bat. When I hit the 3rd pole the 
noise immediately changed. The vibration caused the pole to vibrate which 
transfered into the transformer. A crude microphone! I also noticed a "red 
light" atop the transformer which I later learned was an "over-temp" 
indicator. When I called the local power company they agreed to check it. 
Two days later, no more noise! I received a call from one of their 
engineers who was amazed to hear how I found it. He commented that they 
had a $10K instrument for doing what I did with a baseball bat and an AM 
radio!



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[Flexradio] Finding Noise

[NJSCAN]

Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 13:29:14 -0600
From: "Brad A. Steffler" 
To: flexradio@flex-radio.biz
Subject: [Flexradio] Waterfall and Power line noise - a secret weapon
Message-ID: <4d0e5d0a.4040...@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Thanks to all who have suggested other things to look at for as sources 
of noise besides the power line.

 Two winters ago I had some noise that only occured on very cold 
nights. I suspected a bad power transformer atop a pole. The problem was how to 
identify the pole it was on. I'd like to share the two tricks I used. You'll 
need a baseball bat.

I went down the block listening with an AM radio. When the noise increased I 
whacked each pole with the baseball bat. When I hit the 3rd pole the noise 
immediately changed. The vibration caused the pole to vibrate which transfered 
into the transformer. A crude microphone! I also noticed a "red light" atop the 
transformer which I later learned was an "over-temp" indicator. When I called 
the local power company they agreed to check it. Two days later, no more noise! 
I received a call from one of their engineers who was amazed to hear how I 
found it. He commented that they had a $10K instrument for doing what I did 
with a baseball bat and an AM radio!
___
FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/