Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Terry Fox

This could indeed be good news!!

I have a Flex1500 and a friend's SDR1000, but have been avoiding the 3000 or 
5000 for three/four reasons:
1) QSD/QSE balance issues.  This stems from transmit issues with the old 
SDR1000.  My spectrum analyzer made me gag.
2) Firewire.  I loved it for broadcast video acquisition, but not so much 
for SDR.  It's about as common as parallel ports, especially with laptops.
3) Pricing.  I have a hard time buying a new radio at the cost of the 5000. 
Given items 1 & 2, it was not worth the hassle getting wife approval.
4) OS support.  I would like to see Linux and/or MAC support as well as 
Windows.  This may not be part of the new rig, however.  An open, documented 
HW/SW interface would help, as Flex would not need to be the sole provider 
of SDR/DSP software.  I regularly see questions about whether SDR software 
other than PowerSDR supports Flex rigs.  Unfortunately, that could also 
bring up marketing and legal issues, including type certification of the 
hardware.


I have played with DDC/DUC designs for a couple of years now, and am 
convinced that they are the future.  Their main limitation seems to have 
been dynamic range, I believe Mitola and others have suggested a dynamic 
range of 130dB or better is required for HF.  Given a good (expensive) 
16-bit A/D and processing gain in the DDC, this is achievable with a careful 
design.  Other than low-cost SoftRocks, I bought my last QSD/QSE-based rig a 
while back.


I hope the new rig uses ethernet connectivity.

I trust the new Flex box will satisfy my concerns 1 & 2, and therefore help 
me with item 3.  I just hope the cost differential is not too high!


Thanks for the heads-up Gerald.
73,
Terry, WB4JFI


-Original Message- 
From: Gerald Youngblood

Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:38 AM
To: FlexRadio List
Subject: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.

GAME CHANGER AHEAD

73,
Gerald, K5SDR
President and CEO
FlexRadio Systems


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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Brian Miller
Sounds good Gerald - digital starting at the antenna connector is the way to 
go! All the best for the 18 May event.


73

Brian VK3MI ZL1AZE

-Original Message- 
From: Gerald Youngblood

Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:38 PM
To: FlexRadio List
Subject: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.

GAME CHANGER AHEAD

73,
Gerald, K5SDR
President and CEO
FlexRadio Systems


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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Drax Felton

Anything else?  

It would be neat if this new receiver was a module that fits into the existing 
5000 case maybe as the rx2.  Rather than needing a whole new transceiver.



On May 15, 2012, at 10:30 AM, George Works  wrote:

> This might allow simultaneous reception on multiple HF bands, similar to the 
> way CW skimmer can scan all the CW bands simultaneously with a QS1R SDR.
> George, PJ5/KJ6VW
> 
> On 05/15/2012 10:07 AM, Drax Felton wrote:
>> So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 5000 
>> already does?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 15, 2012, at 10:01 AM, radio...@frontiernet.net wrote:
>> 
>>> I see now, its full SDR with no intermediate base band conversion!  Good 
>>> going Flex!!
>>> 
>>> Dennis KØEOO
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Gerald Youngblood"
>>> To: "FlexRadio List"
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:38:43 AM
>>> Subject: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...
>>> 
>>> ...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.
>>> 
>>> GAME CHANGER AHEAD
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Gerald, K5SDR
>>> President and CEO
>>> FlexRadio Systems
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> http://www.flexradio.com/
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>>> http://www.flexradio.com/
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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Drax Felton
Television transmitters are like 6 MHz wide.  Why couldn't a flex someday 
produce multiple signals in a wide pass band?

We also need a transistor like device that produces 1500 watts out at 99% 
efficiency that costs $100.  Someday we will have it.


Sent from my iPhone

On May 15, 2012, at 11:15 AM, "Jim Fuller \(N7VR\)"  wrote:

> Yes Brian,
> 
> But if I am going to have that then I WANT  it all. Direct D:A at 1500 watts
> to the antenna with go spectral purity and ability to transmit on multiple
> frequencies at the same time. Since the receiver lets me hear and decode
> multiple frequencies at the same time, why not have multiple transmit :-) Of
> course this does mean new software that couples directly to the operator, so
> thoughts can be used to handle the multiple streams at once. The ears, eyes,
> voice, and fingers, are just too slow as interfaces to handle that much
> information simultaneously.   
> 
> But then I said I WANT it all ;-)
> 
> Jim Fuller
> N7VR -- http://www.n7vr.org 
> International TCP/IP Gateways Robot Operator -- http://www.ampr-gateways.org
> 
> MTAPRS NET Server Operator -- http://www.mtaprs.net 
> CWOP-2 -- http://www.wxqa.com 
> IRLP Node 3398 - http://irlp.fuller.net 
> Original ARECC contributor
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
> [mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:46 AM
> To: Drax Felton
> Cc: FlexRadio List
> Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna
> connector...
> 
> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:
> 
>> So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 
>> 5000 already does?
>> 
> 
> Drax, you need to understand how a direct sampling receiver works. In
> essence, it uses an analog-to-digital converter connected directly to the
> antenna. (In reality there is buffering, matching, and filtering to keep
> unwanted signals out of the A:D but the basic concept is the same.) The
> other part of the secret is called decimation, which allows you to trade
> bandwidth for dynamic range. So the receiver can go from being a wide-band,
> see-everything-from-1.8MHz-to-54MHz, radio, to a narrow-band radio with
> world-class dynamic-range and IP3 numbers at the flip of a software
> "switch". (BTW, it does still need a good front-end filter.)
> 
> So, yes, a direct-sampling radio would be a game-changer (in my
> not-so-humble opinion).
> 
> --
> Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
> 3191 Western Dr.
> Cameron Park, CA 95682
> br...@lloyd.com
> +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
> +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
> ___
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> Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage:
> http://www.flexradio.com/
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5000 - Release Date: 05/15/12
> 
> 
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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread dan edwards
now THAT would be interesting, single op, multi-multi ??   73, w5xz, dan

--- On Tue, 5/15/12, Jim Fuller (N7VR)  wrote:

From: Jim Fuller (N7VR) 
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...
To: "'Brian Lloyd'" 
Cc: "'FlexRadio List'" 
Date: Tuesday, May 15, 2012, 3:15 PM

Yes Brian,

But if I am going to have that then I WANT  it all. Direct D:A at 1500 watts
to the antenna with go spectral purity and ability to transmit on multiple
frequencies at the same time. Since the receiver lets me hear and decode
multiple frequencies at the same time, why not have multiple transmit :-) Of
course this does mean new software that couples directly to the operator, so
thoughts can be used to handle the multiple streams at once. The ears, eyes,
voice, and fingers, are just too slow as interfaces to handle that much
information simultaneously.   

But then I said I WANT it all ;-)

Jim Fuller
N7VR -- http://www.n7vr.org 
International TCP/IP Gateways Robot Operator -- http://www.ampr-gateways.org

MTAPRS NET Server Operator -- http://www.mtaprs.net 
CWOP-2 -- http://www.wxqa.com 
IRLP Node 3398 - http://irlp.fuller.net 
Original ARECC contributor


-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:46 AM
To: Drax Felton
Cc: FlexRadio List
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna
connector...

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:

> So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 
> 5000 already does?
>

Drax, you need to understand how a direct sampling receiver works. In
essence, it uses an analog-to-digital converter connected directly to the
antenna. (In reality there is buffering, matching, and filtering to keep
unwanted signals out of the A:D but the basic concept is the same.) The
other part of the secret is called decimation, which allows you to trade
bandwidth for dynamic range. So the receiver can go from being a wide-band,
see-everything-from-1.8MHz-to-54MHz, radio, to a narrow-band radio with
world-class dynamic-range and IP3 numbers at the flip of a software
"switch". (BTW, it does still need a good front-end filter.)

So, yes, a direct-sampling radio would be a game-changer (in my
not-so-humble opinion).

--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5000 - Release Date: 05/15/12


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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Jim Fuller (N7VR)
Yes Brian,

But if I am going to have that then I WANT  it all. Direct D:A at 1500 watts
to the antenna with go spectral purity and ability to transmit on multiple
frequencies at the same time. Since the receiver lets me hear and decode
multiple frequencies at the same time, why not have multiple transmit :-) Of
course this does mean new software that couples directly to the operator, so
thoughts can be used to handle the multiple streams at once. The ears, eyes,
voice, and fingers, are just too slow as interfaces to handle that much
information simultaneously.   

But then I said I WANT it all ;-)

Jim Fuller
N7VR -- http://www.n7vr.org 
International TCP/IP Gateways Robot Operator -- http://www.ampr-gateways.org

MTAPRS NET Server Operator -- http://www.mtaprs.net 
CWOP-2 -- http://www.wxqa.com 
IRLP Node 3398 - http://irlp.fuller.net 
Original ARECC contributor


-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:46 AM
To: Drax Felton
Cc: FlexRadio List
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna
connector...

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:

> So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 
> 5000 already does?
>

Drax, you need to understand how a direct sampling receiver works. In
essence, it uses an analog-to-digital converter connected directly to the
antenna. (In reality there is buffering, matching, and filtering to keep
unwanted signals out of the A:D but the basic concept is the same.) The
other part of the secret is called decimation, which allows you to trade
bandwidth for dynamic range. So the receiver can go from being a wide-band,
see-everything-from-1.8MHz-to-54MHz, radio, to a narrow-band radio with
world-class dynamic-range and IP3 numbers at the flip of a software
"switch". (BTW, it does still need a good front-end filter.)

So, yes, a direct-sampling radio would be a game-changer (in my
not-so-humble opinion).

--
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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-
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2176 / Virus Database: 2425/5000 - Release Date: 05/15/12


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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread n3evl


Sounds like Flex may be adopting a direct sampling approach similar to 
openHPSDR Mercury and Hermes.  For anyone interested in details of 
direct sampling design, I can highly recommend the 2008 TAPR Digital 
Conference video featuring Phil, VK6APH describing the design of 
Mercury.  See DVD #6 at:


< http://www.arvideonews.com/dcc2008/index.html >

If this is indeed what Flex has in store, it will be interesting t 
compare how they do it.


Pete, N3EVL

PS I have no financial interest in sales of this DVD.




On 5/15/2012 10:45 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:


So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 5000
already does?


Drax, you need to understand how a direct sampling receiver works. In
essence, it uses an analog-to-digital converter connected directly to the
antenna. (In reality there is buffering, matching, and filtering to keep
unwanted signals out of the A:D but the basic concept is the same.) The
other part of the secret is called decimation, which allows you to trade
bandwidth for dynamic range. So the receiver can go from being a wide-band,
see-everything-from-1.8MHz-to-54MHz, radio, to a narrow-band radio with
world-class dynamic-range and IP3 numbers at the flip of a software
"switch". (BTW, it does still need a good front-end filter.)

So, yes, a direct-sampling radio would be a game-changer (in my
not-so-humble opinion).




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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread kc9cdt

So..how noisy is this type of rcvr? I like very quiet receivers.
Let's say compared to my old analog only stuff, like a Collins 75S-3, Drle R-4B 
etc.

Thanks,
73,
Lee



 


-Original Message-
From: Brian Lloyd 
To: Drax Felton 
Cc: FlexRadio List 
Sent: Tue, May 15, 2012 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...


On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:
> So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 5000
 already does?

Drax, you need to understand how a direct sampling receiver works. In
ssence, it uses an analog-to-digital converter connected directly to the
ntenna. (In reality there is buffering, matching, and filtering to keep
nwanted signals out of the A:D but the basic concept is the same.) The
ther part of the secret is called decimation, which allows you to trade
andwidth for dynamic range. So the receiver can go from being a wide-band,
ee-everything-from-1.8MHz-to-54MHz, radio, to a narrow-band radio with
orld-class dynamic-range and IP3 numbers at the flip of a software
switch". (BTW, it does still need a good front-end filter.)
So, yes, a direct-sampling radio would be a game-changer (in my
ot-so-humble opinion).
-- 
rian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
191 Western Dr.
ameron Park, CA 95682
r...@lloyd.com
1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Jim Fuller (N7VR)
This look right up your alley  Bob,

Now what was that 2 + 2 = 65536  No No I forgot to initialize the
variables it is 2 to the 16th power equals 4 antenna ports :-)

Jim Fuller
N7VR -- http://www.n7vr.org 
International TCP/IP Gateways Robot Operator -- http://www.ampr-gateways.org

MTAPRS NET Server Operator -- http://www.mtaprs.net 
CWOP-2 -- http://www.wxqa.com 
IRLP Node 3398 - http://irlp.fuller.net 
Original ARECC contributor


-Original Message-
From: flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz
[mailto:flexradio-boun...@flex-radio.biz] On Behalf Of Bob McGwier
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:22 AM
To: Gerald Youngblood
Cc: FlexRadio List
Subject: Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna
connector...

Ha ha.  The kimono opens slowly.

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Gerald Youngblood
wrote:

> ...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.
>
> GAME CHANGER AHEAD
>
> 73,
> Gerald, K5SDR
> President and CEO
> FlexRadio Systems
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Brian Lloyd
On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Drax Felton  wrote:

> So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 5000
> already does?
>

Drax, you need to understand how a direct sampling receiver works. In
essence, it uses an analog-to-digital converter connected directly to the
antenna. (In reality there is buffering, matching, and filtering to keep
unwanted signals out of the A:D but the basic concept is the same.) The
other part of the secret is called decimation, which allows you to trade
bandwidth for dynamic range. So the receiver can go from being a wide-band,
see-everything-from-1.8MHz-to-54MHz, radio, to a narrow-band radio with
world-class dynamic-range and IP3 numbers at the flip of a software
"switch". (BTW, it does still need a good front-end filter.)

So, yes, a direct-sampling radio would be a game-changer (in my
not-so-humble opinion).

-- 
Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
3191 Western Dr.
Cameron Park, CA 95682
br...@lloyd.com
+1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
+1.916.877.5067 (USA)
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Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Drax Felton
So how does a lack of base band conversion improve upon what the flex 5000 
already does?



On May 15, 2012, at 10:01 AM, radio...@frontiernet.net wrote:

> I see now, its full SDR with no intermediate base band conversion!  Good 
> going Flex!!
> 
> Dennis KØEOO
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gerald Youngblood" 
> To: "FlexRadio List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:38:43 AM
> Subject: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...
> 
> ...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.
> 
> GAME CHANGER AHEAD
> 
> 73,
> Gerald, K5SDR
> President and CEO
> FlexRadio Systems
> 
> 
> ___
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> Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
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> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
> Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/

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Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/


Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Robert Costa, KB6QXM
Can we trade in our "old school" Flex radios as a down payment for these DDR 
radios?

LOL

73,
Robert
KB6QXM
"Ham Radio Open Conversation"
Yahoo group owner/moderator


- Reply message -
From: radio...@frontiernet.net
To: "Gerald Youngblood" 
Cc: "FlexRadio List" 
Subject: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...
Date: Tue, May 15, 2012 7:01 am


I see now, its full SDR with no intermediate base band conversion!  Good going 
Flex!!

Dennis KØEOO



- Original Message -
From: "Gerald Youngblood" 
To: "FlexRadio List" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:38:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.

GAME CHANGER AHEAD

73,
Gerald, K5SDR
President and CEO
FlexRadio Systems


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Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/

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Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/
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FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
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Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/


Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread radioart
I see now, its full SDR with no intermediate base band conversion!  Good going 
Flex!!

Dennis KØEOO



- Original Message -
From: "Gerald Youngblood" 
To: "FlexRadio List" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 6:38:43 AM
Subject: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.

GAME CHANGER AHEAD

73,
Gerald, K5SDR
President and CEO
FlexRadio Systems


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Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/

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Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/


Re: [Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Bob McGwier
Ha ha.  The kimono opens slowly.

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 7:38 AM, Gerald Youngblood wrote:

> ...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.
>
> GAME CHANGER AHEAD
>
> 73,
> Gerald, K5SDR
> President and CEO
> FlexRadio Systems
>
>
> ___
> FlexRadio Systems Mailing List
> FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz
> http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz
> Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
> Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage:
> http://www.flexradio.com/
>
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Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/
Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/


[Flexradio] Imagine digital starting at the antenna connector...

2012-05-15 Thread Gerald Youngblood
...and a bit of arithmetic.  Imagine with us May 18th.

GAME CHANGER AHEAD

73,
Gerald, K5SDR
President and CEO
FlexRadio Systems


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Knowledge Base: http://kc.flexradio.com/  Homepage: http://www.flexradio.com/