Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
YES! Look at the Tivo. Standalone box. Completely plug play. Linux on the inside. Output to standard audio and video jacks. Network GUI. Near 0 maintenance. It Just Works For the SDR, a separate transmit/rf module should be available but I would expect a lot of these to end up being remote receivers controlled over and feeding IF to the internet. I think investing a lot of time and hard work on something controlled by the whims of an OS company that is actively trying to limit choices and lock in it's customers is false economy. Easy at first and expensive/painful later. Linux (and PowerSDR if I am not mistaken) belong to the community. The freedom to improve/innovate is a VERY important thing. Flex should be commended for NOT trying to lock in it's customers with a proprietary console like another sdr receiver company does. It helps Flex and it helps us. I think their success indicates that it was a good business decision. Jeff/KA5MIR On Wednesday 03 January 2007 10:38, Bob McGwier wrote: User space drivers, behind Vista layers and layers of bulk and protection of digital media rights, is possible. It is just awful so why would we do it? I have a strong opinion. It is my strongest possible opinion that for the future, Flex should build stand alone radios running Linux on the computer inside the box and then we can support the control/GUI on ALL machines as add ons to the stand alone radio which more capability, etc. The radio performance will then not be harmed by XP, Vista, 2000, Windows 98 or even ME and 95. We can have a GUI on ALL of them. This to me is the best of all possible worlds. ... ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com/ FlexRadio Knowledge Base: http://kb.flex-radio.com/
Re: [Flexradio] vSound Update from Phil C.
Given the current state of software, are there any incompatibilities with Win2K other than Phil's planned development of vSound? I have been struggling with WGA on several machines here, made the stupid mistake of paying the 160 ransom to Microsoft to see if I could get a reg nr that would pass, and now it fails after 2 days. I think the past is my future so want some comment on Win2K pro compatibility! Happy new year all. My SDR1Khas been one of the bright spots of 206. Neal On Jan 1, 2007, at 12:10 AM, Robert McGwier wrote: Tim Ellison wrote: From Phil's blog... vSound Status I have been able to get a prototype of the vSound driver to work on Windows Vista beta. I am now waiting until the official release of Vista This is misspelled. It is Windows VIRUS beta. ;-). Actually, this is good news from Phil because I am worried that VAC is in trouble with Vista. Many of our card manufacturers also do not have signed drivers because heretofore many have refused to pay MS fees (signed driver certification protecting their control over DRM). Consider this another warning to hold off on Vista as long as possible. HNY Bob N4HY -Tim Integrated Technical Services www.itsco.com Apex, NC USA Cell: +1 919 215 6375 Skype: kg4rzy -- AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction. - Dietrich Bonhoffer ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Brad A. Steffler wrote: ... the conversion of SDR to Linux is of paramount importance... This has been the view of some of the developers since the beginning. That's why in reality much of the critical development process has followed the reverse path: do the development first under Linux, then port back to Windows. The capabilities of the DSP core in PowerSDR have long been and continue to be considerably greater under Linux than can yet be accommodated under Windows. Exposing these capabilities under Windows has been held back primarily by the simple, practical, commercial demands of producing a stable, familiar Windows console. The point has been reached, however, that those same requirements are impediments to further development. The time has come, probably, to shift the emphasis to rapid completion of a consumer Linux version. The release of Vista is merely another reason to move in that direction. 73 Frank AB2KT ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Most of the customer base is Windows. It would be nice to thumb our noses at Vista by having the Linux version though. I've been switching my PCs over to Linux. Mike - AA8K Frank Brickle wrote: ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Frank Brickle wrote: Brad A. Steffler wrote: ... the conversion of SDR to Linux is of paramount importance... This has been the view of some of the developers since the beginning. That's why in reality much of the critical development process has followed the reverse path: do the development first under Linux, then port back to Windows. The capabilities of the DSP core in PowerSDR have long been and continue to be considerably greater under Linux than can yet be accommodated under Windows. Exposing these capabilities under Windows has been held back primarily by the simple, practical, commercial demands of producing a stable, familiar Windows console. The point has been reached, however, that those same requirements are impediments to further development. The time has come, probably, to shift the emphasis to rapid completion of a consumer Linux version. The release of Vista is merely another reason to move in that direction. 73 Frank AB2KT Shifting the emphasis to the Linux development will not hurt my feelings at all. Out of 5 PC's in my house only one has Windows, the other four have Ubuntu Linux, but being practical I will need to keep the one Windows PC around for a while, it however will never see Vista. I do have a copy of every OS from Microsoft from DOS all the way to XP with their associated Service Packs and I will hold on to them just in case Microsoft decides to go off the deep end of the ocean.. Being convinced for a while that Windows was not a desired long term solution I finally started switching to Linux about six month ago, and I am not sorry I did. Vista may just be the best promotion for Linux in a long time, their attitude about locking out small developers might make a few switch to Linux. However recently I saw a signature that I like and it's so true, Linux is user friendly, it's just particular as to who it's friends are By the way, where is the latest DttSP binaries and source kept? I'm getting to the point where I want to start getting familiar with it. -- Cecil KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com Sacred Cows make the best Hamburger! Don Seglio Batuna ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of Vista. Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR preinstalled and configured to work as a stand alone 'appliance' for those who don't yet want to invest the time and heartache in learning anything about Linux? Ed K5RJI On 1/1/07, KD5NWA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank Brickle wrote: Brad A. Steffler wrote: ... the conversion of SDR to Linux is of paramount importance... This has been the view of some of the developers since the beginning. That's why in reality much of the critical development process has followed the reverse path: do the development first under Linux, then port back to Windows. The capabilities of the DSP core in PowerSDR have long been and continue to be considerably greater under Linux than can yet be accommodated under Windows. Exposing these capabilities under Windows has been held back primarily by the simple, practical, commercial demands of producing a stable, familiar Windows console. The point has been reached, however, that those same requirements are impediments to further development. The time has come, probably, to shift the emphasis to rapid completion of a consumer Linux version. The release of Vista is merely another reason to move in that direction. 73 Frank AB2KT Shifting the emphasis to the Linux development will not hurt my feelings at all. Out of 5 PC's in my house only one has Windows, the other four have Ubuntu Linux, but being practical I will need to keep the one Windows PC around for a while, it however will never see Vista. I do have a copy of every OS from Microsoft from DOS all the way to XP with their associated Service Packs and I will hold on to them just in case Microsoft decides to go off the deep end of the ocean.. Being convinced for a while that Windows was not a desired long term solution I finally started switching to Linux about six month ago, and I am not sorry I did. Vista may just be the best promotion for Linux in a long time, their attitude about locking out small developers might make a few switch to Linux. However recently I saw a signature that I like and it's so true, Linux is user friendly, it's just particular as to who it's friends are By the way, where is the latest DttSP binaries and source kept? I'm getting to the point where I want to start getting familiar with it. -- Cecil KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com Sacred Cows make the best Hamburger! Don Seglio Batuna ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070101/f5d9cf52/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Ed Haskell wrote: It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of Vista. Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR preinstalled and configured to work as a stand alone 'appliance' for those who don't yet want to invest the time and heartache in learning anything about Linux? Ed K5RJI Maybe because, the consumer Linux version of PowerSDR software does not exist? There is software available, but it consist of several packages that are installed separately, and then used control the radio, not quite ready for people not willing to learn Linux. As an example that Linux is not for people that are not willing to learn it, I have several special application that when the OS version is upgraded and that happens often they need to be re-compiled. Even though Windows does not need applications re-compiled, ignorance is not bliss, as demonstrated by the many people whose machines are running poorly due to viruses and spyware. If I were you I would start becoming familiar with Linux now, don't wait until you are forced to. I would not put it past Microsoft to put in some patches whose real purpose is to kill Windows after a preset date to force you to upgrade, they already install patches that tell you your Windows copy is invalid and eventually disables Windows. Not investing time to learn your OS causes in the long term far more pain and grief than what it takes to learn it. -- Cecil KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com Sacred Cows make the best Hamburger! Don Seglio Batuna ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
I am a Linux user. However I completely understand why most Windoze users are unwilling to climb a very steep learning curve. The investment in time and frustration is simply not worth it for most people. It's like asking a prospective ham to pass an entry level license exam that is comprised of the old Advanced class theory plus 40 wpm code. It those of us who use Linux want most of our colleagues in amateur radio to join us then we've got to find a way to make it easy enough that they don't feel like they have traded their hobby for a new and less rewarding one. Ed K5RJI On 1/1/07, KD5NWA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ed Haskell wrote: It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of Vista. Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR preinstalled and configured to work as a stand alone 'appliance' for those who don't yet want to invest the time and heartache in learning anything about Linux? Ed K5RJI Maybe because, the consumer Linux version of PowerSDR software does not exist? There is software available, but it consist of several packages that are installed separately, and then used control the radio, not quite ready for people not willing to learn Linux. As an example that Linux is not for people that are not willing to learn it, I have several special application that when the OS version is upgraded and that happens often they need to be re-compiled. Even though Windows does not need applications re-compiled, ignorance is not bliss, as demonstrated by the many people whose machines are running poorly due to viruses and spyware. If I were you I would start becoming familiar with Linux now, don't wait until you are forced to. I would not put it past Microsoft to put in some patches whose real purpose is to kill Windows after a preset date to force you to upgrade, they already install patches that tell you your Windows copy is invalid and eventually disables Windows. Not investing time to learn your OS causes in the long term far more pain and grief than what it takes to learn it. -- Cecil KD5NWA www.qrpradio.com www.hpsdr.com Sacred Cows make the best Hamburger! Don Seglio Batuna ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.flex-radio.biz/pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20070101/1ce18c0b/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Remember how things went after we switched to svn distribution of the alpha code? There was almost an insurrection because people thought that the regular releases of intermediate steps would stop. This is similar in that it is outside of people's experience zone rather than hard. With the use of rpm, deb, and similar tools coupled with the tools such as synaptic, yum, etc. it should be no more difficult to install and run a fully supported version under Linux than it currently is under Windows. The exception to this is that bleeding edge hardware is not necessarily delivered with Linux support for its features since the Winblows support is almost always built first. I find Melton's development and release of a directX GTK+ version of Beppe's console both exhilarating and an embarassment. This can easily be ported to Linux and OpenGL or Windows and OpenGL. It could be the case that the display efficiency improves with OpenGL since so much of directX these days is dedicated to 3D and texturing and 2D graphical display has not received much development and the easy to use functions for this have been deprecated. I expect 2007 to be the big year for Linux consoles for our enterprise. Bob Larry Loen wrote: Ed Haskell wrote: It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of Vista. Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR preinstalled and configured to work as a stand alone 'appliance' for those who don't yet want to invest the time and heartache in learning anything about Linux? Ed K5RJI The hard part is not purchasing the machine. The hard part is running it or learning how to run it if your interests and expertise don't run in that direction. This is a problem in many cases, some obvious, some not: 1. Not comfortable with alternatives to Windows. 2. Have to run Windows for other things, may not have room/need/desire to have another computer in the shack. This includes networking skills. 3. Must run Windows for work. 4. Integration of the PowerSDR with other Windows-based software such as MixW, HamRadioDeluxe, N1MM, etc. That said, function first. Our relatively narrow bandwidth may bail us out here to the point that Windows doesn't care. If it doesn't, who needs Billy Gates? For myself, running on Linux would be a no-brainer. In fact, it would probably be a net simplification overall, especially if the front end (the console proper) had a decent way of communicating with a Linux-based back-end (that is, export the human speed radio controls, but everything from the sound card on down would be on Linux). I believe the new architecture may well make this easy to do. The worst case outcome would be to have a headless Linux running VNC, which is not very hard to learn nor set up on the Linux side of it. Such an approach could greatly minimize the problems involved here, unless you really were out of room for one more PC. Larry WO0Z ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com -- AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction. - Dietrich Bonhoffer ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Mike Naruta wrote: Most of the customer base is Windows. It would be nice to thumb our noses at Vista by having the Linux version though. I've been switching my PCs over to Linux. Mike - AA8K Frank Brickle wrote: ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com __ NOD32 1949 (20061230) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Let me ad that I'm not about to go to Vista, given MS track record. I've been running CD bootable Ubuntu and I'm now looking for help on creating dual boot just to give me a level of comfort. If we can be shown an easy way to switch back a forth I would rather run SDR under Linux. Jerry ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Robert McGwier wrote: Remember how things went after we switched to svn distribution of the alpha code? There was almost an insurrection because people thought that the regular releases of intermediate steps would stop. This is similar in that it is outside of people's experience zone rather than hard. With the use of rpm, deb, and similar tools coupled with the tools such as synaptic, yum, etc. it should be no more difficult to install and run a fully supported version under Linux than it currently is under Windows. The exception to this is that bleeding edge hardware is not necessarily delivered with Linux support for its features since the Winblows support is almost always built first. I find Melton's development and release of a directX GTK+ version of Beppe's console both exhilarating and an embarassment. This can easily be ported to Linux and OpenGL or Windows and OpenGL. It could be the case that the display efficiency improves with OpenGL since so much of directX these days is dedicated to 3D and texturing and 2D graphical display has not received much development and the easy to use functions for this have been deprecated. I expect 2007 to be the big year for Linux consoles for our enterprise. Bob Larry Loen wrote: Ed Haskell wrote: It is possible today to purchase, at WalMart among other places, a PC complete with preinstalled Linux for less than the purchase price of Vista. Why not offer one of these with everything including PowerSDR preinstalled and configured to work as a stand alone 'appliance' for those who don't yet want to invest the time and heartache in learning anything about Linux? Ed K5RJI The hard part is not purchasing the machine. The hard part is running it or learning how to run it if your interests and expertise don't run in that direction. This is a problem in many cases, some obvious, some not: 1. Not comfortable with alternatives to Windows. 2. Have to run Windows for other things, may not have room/need/desire to have another computer in the shack. This includes networking skills. 3. Must run Windows for work. 4. Integration of the PowerSDR with other Windows-based software such as MixW, HamRadioDeluxe, N1MM, etc. That said, function first. Our relatively narrow bandwidth may bail us out here to the point that Windows doesn't care. If it doesn't, who needs Billy Gates? For myself, running on Linux would be a no-brainer. In fact, it would probably be a net simplification overall, especially if the front end (the console proper) had a decent way of communicating with a Linux-based back-end (that is, export the human speed radio controls, but everything from the sound card on down would be on Linux). I believe the new architecture may well make this easy to do. The worst case outcome would be to have a headless Linux running VNC, which is not very hard to learn nor set up on the Linux side of it. Such an approach could greatly minimize the problems involved here, unless you really were out of room for one more PC. Larry WO0Z -- AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction. - Dietrich Bonhoffer ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
[Flexradio] vSound Update from Phil C.
From Phil's blog... vSound Status I have been able to get a prototype of the vSound driver to work on Windows Vista beta. I am now waiting until the official release of Vista to continue development on a driver that will work on both XP and Vista. As it looks now, vSound will support Vista and XP only. There will be no support for W2K, NT4, or Win9X/ME operating systems. My main concern is trying to make sure that the vSound driver is compatible with both XP and Vista so I don't have to maintain two different versions based on operating system. There are a lot of changes being made to driver development under Windows and I have been waiting until it stabilizes a little bit more before releasing a beta driver. My best estimate for availability of vSound beta is early next year after Vista systems hit the streets. -Tim Integrated Technical Services www.itsco.com Apex, NC USA Cell: +1 919 215 6375 Skype: kg4rzy ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] vSound Update from Phil C.
Tim Ellison wrote: From Phil's blog... vSound Status I have been able to get a prototype of the vSound driver to work on Windows Vista beta. I am now waiting until the official release of Vista This is misspelled. It is Windows VIRUS beta. ;-). Actually, this is good news from Phil because I am worried that VAC is in trouble with Vista. Many of our card manufacturers also do not have signed drivers because heretofore many have refused to pay MS fees (signed driver certification protecting their control over DRM). Consider this another warning to hold off on Vista as long as possible. HNY Bob N4HY -Tim Integrated Technical Services www.itsco.com Apex, NC USA Cell: +1 919 215 6375 Skype: kg4rzy -- AMSAT Director and VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR WG Chair If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction. - Dietrich Bonhoffer ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
[Flexradio] vSound update from Phil C. - Windows Vista problems
Re: Bob McGwier's post: With the advent of the twisted /trusted computing /and the DRM signed driver requirements as well as new hardware requirements for Vista compatible boards, we may be in deep weeds in the future. The great strength of Software Defined Radio can also be its Achilles heel, if Vista is any indication. The radio could be held hostage to Microsoft's dictates. It appears, near as I can tell, in this convoluted (to me) scheme of Microsoft's that we WILL be held hostage to the whims of Microsoft with increased costs and loss of freedom to use our computers as we see fit when we install Vista. The philosophy behind SDR is individual flexibility and freedom by using infinitely configurable software to be the guts of the radio. The use of software allows almost infinite flexibility. This presupposes that the OS and the hardware (PC) itself is constructed/made with no built-in restrictions. When we get hardware and software requirements that add such restrictions, the law of unintended consequences will really increase the complexity of our systems in the future and potentially severely limit our options. Development costs for both software and hardware could potentially soar, making our SDR's as, or more, expensive than the rigs competing with SDR (such as IC-7800, etc). Maybe I am crying wolf here. But if I am not, the conversion of SDR to Linux is of paramount importance. Dependence upon Microsoft/Apple may be a severe mistake for SDR for the masses. My wife just promised me an SDR, and other goodies, early in 2007. Now I am not so sure... What do Eric, Gerald and the others think? Brad KE4XJ ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Vsound Update
Tim Ellison wrote: OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. First off, a bit of patience is in order. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither will Vsound I had a chance to exchange a few e-mails with Phil regarding the current state of Vsound development. Just because you have not heard anything or seen a blog entry doesn't mean that nothing is going on. A lot is. Here IS what is going on. The delay getting a driver released is partly due to the rapid development of HPSDR (of which Janus will be of great interest to all SDR-1000 users) and mostly to do with our fine friends in Redmond Washington - Microsoft. The problem is Vista and the new low latency sound subsystem that runs in user mode; WDF (Windows Driver Foundation) of which some of it is supported under XP. The challenge is to be able to develop a universal user mode driver that will work with both Vista and XP. This effort is important for several reasons. One is that from a support standpoint, it is best to support one release. Second is that it would provide a low latency sound subsystem for BOTH XP and Vista similar to what jack does in Linux. If he takes the easy way out and makes an XP only version, there will not be any guarantees that it will work with Vista or be updated in the future to do so. I think it is a prudent decision to take the path he has been trying to be ready for Vista since it is so close to being released. Here is the rub. Since Vista is still in beta and features and technologies are stabilizing; WDF is still a moving target. Phil has told me that he had some initial success with his first cut at a functional user mode driver, but the next beta release of Vista broke it. He is try to find out what changed and why. To that end, Phil has been in direct touch with one of the WDF developers in Redmond and other developers going through the same pains as he is. Microsoft is FAMOUS for poorly documenting their technologies. WDF is no exception. For more info on WDF you can check out this PowerPoint presentation. http://download.microsoft.com/download/f/0/5/f05a42ce-575b-4c60-82d6-208 d3754b2d6/UMDF_Intro.ppt Now, for those that paid their $$ to begin this development effort, you are to be commended for you contribution and foresight, but you have to look at this process like an investment. You paid for development not a finished product. A finished product will be the successful result of development. If you were expecting a quick ROI, then your expectations need to be modified a little bit. What you have to remember is that this risk free investment WILL pay off. The Vsound development process isn't like what Eric does by spoiling us with 2-4 upgrades a week. If it wasn't for SVN, our last upgrade would have been back on 23-June-06 Some of us know Phil personally and professionally and others know him by his immense contributions to SDR and the SDR-1000. He is an upstanding and honest person of the highest caliber and I have no reason to doubt that there will not be a Vsound in the coming months and it will knock the socks off of VAC for what we Flexers want to do with it. Others on the reflector can vouch for his character as well. Now, not everybody is going to agree with waiting a bit longer for Vsound to be done right. That is your right. But I ask that if you feel that you have to express your comments regarding the pace of development, that you do not use a public forum such as the reflector for that purpose. That should be taken up directly with Phil in a private correspondence in a professional manner. Like how we all want to be treated. Thanks Phil for providing me with a detailed update on Vsound and allowing me to share it with the SDR-1000 community. The best of luck to you battling the mighty monster in Washington. -Tim Do you need any help with a Linux driver. I am an ALSA developer. Maybe we could get the HPSDR working in Linux earlier? James ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
[Flexradio] Vsound Update
OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. First off, a bit of patience is in order. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither will Vsound I had a chance to exchange a few e-mails with Phil regarding the current state of Vsound development. Just because you have not heard anything or seen a blog entry doesn't mean that nothing is going on. A lot is. Here IS what is going on. The delay getting a driver released is partly due to the rapid development of HPSDR (of which Janus will be of great interest to all SDR-1000 users) and mostly to do with our fine friends in Redmond Washington - Microsoft. The problem is Vista and the new low latency sound subsystem that runs in user mode; WDF (Windows Driver Foundation) of which some of it is supported under XP. The challenge is to be able to develop a universal user mode driver that will work with both Vista and XP. This effort is important for several reasons. One is that from a support standpoint, it is best to support one release. Second is that it would provide a low latency sound subsystem for BOTH XP and Vista similar to what jack does in Linux. If he takes the easy way out and makes an XP only version, there will not be any guarantees that it will work with Vista or be updated in the future to do so. I think it is a prudent decision to take the path he has been trying to be ready for Vista since it is so close to being released. Here is the rub. Since Vista is still in beta and features and technologies are stabilizing; WDF is still a moving target. Phil has told me that he had some initial success with his first cut at a functional user mode driver, but the next beta release of Vista broke it. He is try to find out what changed and why. To that end, Phil has been in direct touch with one of the WDF developers in Redmond and other developers going through the same pains as he is. Microsoft is FAMOUS for poorly documenting their technologies. WDF is no exception. For more info on WDF you can check out this PowerPoint presentation. http://download.microsoft.com/download/f/0/5/f05a42ce-575b-4c60-82d6-208 d3754b2d6/UMDF_Intro.ppt Now, for those that paid their $$ to begin this development effort, you are to be commended for you contribution and foresight, but you have to look at this process like an investment. You paid for development not a finished product. A finished product will be the successful result of development. If you were expecting a quick ROI, then your expectations need to be modified a little bit. What you have to remember is that this risk free investment WILL pay off. The Vsound development process isn't like what Eric does by spoiling us with 2-4 upgrades a week. If it wasn't for SVN, our last upgrade would have been back on 23-June-06 Some of us know Phil personally and professionally and others know him by his immense contributions to SDR and the SDR-1000. He is an upstanding and honest person of the highest caliber and I have no reason to doubt that there will not be a Vsound in the coming months and it will knock the socks off of VAC for what we Flexers want to do with it. Others on the reflector can vouch for his character as well. Now, not everybody is going to agree with waiting a bit longer for Vsound to be done right. That is your right. But I ask that if you feel that you have to express your comments regarding the pace of development, that you do not use a public forum such as the reflector for that purpose. That should be taken up directly with Phil in a private correspondence in a professional manner. Like how we all want to be treated. Thanks Phil for providing me with a detailed update on Vsound and allowing me to share it with the SDR-1000 community. The best of luck to you battling the mighty monster in Washington. -Tim --- Tim Ellison Integrated Technical Services http://www.itsco.com/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20061002/9f095456/attachment.html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
Re: [Flexradio] Vsound Update
You didn't hear me complaining!!! Keep up the great work, Phil and Tim, and thanks a million. No matter the delay, you're doing great! Ken WR5H -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Ellison Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:26 PM To: Flex Radio Subject: [Flexradio] Vsound Update Importance: High OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. First off, a bit of patience is in order. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither will Vsound I had a chance to exchange a few e-mails with Phil regarding the current state of Vsound development. Just because you have not heard anything or seen a blog entry doesn't mean that nothing is going on. A lot is. Here IS what is going on. The delay getting a driver released is partly due to the rapid development of HPSDR (of which Janus will be of great interest to all SDR-1000 users) and mostly to do with our fine friends in Redmond Washington - Microsoft. The problem is Vista and the new low latency sound subsystem that runs in user mode; WDF (Windows Driver Foundation) of which some of it is supported under XP. The challenge is to be able to develop a universal user mode driver that will work with both Vista and XP. This effort is important for several reasons. One is that from a support standpoint, it is best to support one release. Second is that it would provide a low latency sound subsystem for BOTH XP and Vista similar to what jack does in Linux. If he takes the easy way out and makes an XP only version, there will not be any guarantees that it will work with Vista or be updated in the future to do so. I think it is a prudent decision to take the path he has been trying to be ready for Vista since it is so close to being released. Here is the rub. Since Vista is still in beta and features and technologies are stabilizing; WDF is still a moving target. Phil has told me that he had some initial success with his first cut at a functional user mode driver, but the next beta release of Vista broke it. He is try to find out what changed and why. To that end, Phil has been in direct touch with one of the WDF developers in Redmond and other developers going through the same pains as he is. Microsoft is FAMOUS for poorly documenting their technologies. WDF is no exception. For more info on WDF you can check out this PowerPoint presentation. http://download.microsoft.com/download/f/0/5/f05a42ce-575b-4c60-82d6-208 d3754b2d6/UMDF_Intro.ppt Now, for those that paid their $$ to begin this development effort, you are to be commended for you contribution and foresight, but you have to look at this process like an investment. You paid for development not a finished product. A finished product will be the successful result of development. If you were expecting a quick ROI, then your expectations need to be modified a little bit. What you have to remember is that this risk free investment WILL pay off. The Vsound development process isn't like what Eric does by spoiling us with 2-4 upgrades a week. If it wasn't for SVN, our last upgrade would have been back on 23-June-06 Some of us know Phil personally and professionally and others know him by his immense contributions to SDR and the SDR-1000. He is an upstanding and honest person of the highest caliber and I have no reason to doubt that there will not be a Vsound in the coming months and it will knock the socks off of VAC for what we Flexers want to do with it. Others on the reflector can vouch for his character as well. Now, not everybody is going to agree with waiting a bit longer for Vsound to be done right. That is your right. But I ask that if you feel that you have to express your comments regarding the pace of development, that you do not use a public forum such as the reflector for that purpose. That should be taken up directly with Phil in a private correspondence in a professional manner. Like how we all want to be treated. Thanks Phil for providing me with a detailed update on Vsound and allowing me to share it with the SDR-1000 community. The best of luck to you battling the mighty monster in Washington. -Tim --- Tim Ellison Integrated Technical Services http://www.itsco.com/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/flexradio_flex-radio.biz/attachments/20061002/9f095456/attachment .html ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex
Re: [Flexradio] Vsound Update
Tim Ellison wrote: OK, folks. Listen up. I have the 411 on Vsound. Now there you go again, shedding more light than heat on a subject contrary to the clear requirements of a hobby that has the Alligator Net and Flex Radio under the same tent. You are going to have to stop doing these logical things and making the kind of sense that requires thoughtful consideration be given to what you say. Bob -- AMSAT VP Engineering. Member: ARRL, AMSAT-DL, TAPR, Packrats, NJQRP/AMQRP, QRP ARCI, QCWA, FRC. ARRL SDR Wrk Grp Chairman You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very, very long cat. You pull his tail in New York and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you understand this? And radio operates exactly the same way: you send signals here, they receive them there. The only difference is that there is no cat. - Einstein ___ FlexRadio mailing list FlexRadio@flex-radio.biz http://mail.flex-radio.biz/mailman/listinfo/flexradio_flex-radio.biz Archive Link: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexradio%40flex-radio.biz/ FlexRadio Homepage: http://www.flex-radio.com
