Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: CVS: data/Navaids TACAN_freq.dat.gz, NONE, 1.1

2005-10-02 Thread Frederic Bouvier
Selon Andy Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Alex Romosan wrote:
> > hmm, there seems to be a lot of junk in this file:
>
> Actually, this file is in fact a gzipped tar file containing a
> single TACAN_freq.txt file.  Is that intended?

Nevertheless, this file should be binary for us Windows users. In fact, it is
(now ?), but carrier_nav.dat.gz isn't and is corrupted for me.

reminder :

cvs admin -kb carrier_nav.dat.gz

-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: CVS: data/Navaids TACAN_freq.dat.gz, NONE, 1.1

2005-10-02 Thread Erik Hofman

Frederic Bouvier wrote:

Nevertheless, this file should be binary for us Windows users. In fact, it is
(now ?), but carrier_nav.dat.gz isn't and is corrupted for me.

reminder :

cvs admin -kb carrier_nav.dat.gz


It was added without the -kb flag but remembered it had to be so I 
issued the command prior to committing it. It looks like it doesn't work 
that way.

It's fixed now.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Never ending story: Building SimGear CVS under Cygwin

2005-10-02 Thread David Luff


On 02/10/2005 at 04:21 Georg Vollnhals wrote:

>Hi Dave,
>I installed *all* Cygwin stuff after I got the first errors some time 
>ago because I did not really know what I need.
>I reinstalled it all now before trying again
>   Graphics (one of many entries, but this should it be)
>   2.2.0-1 169k freeglut: OpenSourced alternative to the OpenGL Utility  
>Toolkit (GLUT) library
>but the error did not change afterwards.
>Regards
>Georg
>

Scroll down further in the graphics section - you'll find "opengl:
OpenGL-related libraries", should be version 1.1.0-6.  Make sure you've
checked this, and it's possible you might need to install source for both
it and freeglut.  (There are separate bin and src check boxes - make sure
you've checked the src one for opengl).

Cheers - Dave



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: CVS: data/Navaids TACAN_freq.dat.gz, NONE, 1.1

2005-10-02 Thread Frederic Bouvier

Erik Hofman a écrit :


Frederic Bouvier wrote:

Nevertheless, this file should be binary for us Windows users. In 
fact, it is

(now ?), but carrier_nav.dat.gz isn't and is corrupted for me.

reminder :

cvs admin -kb carrier_nav.dat.gz



It was added without the -kb flag but remembered it had to be so I 
issued the command prior to committing it. It looks like it doesn't 
work that way.

It's fixed now.



Yes, and you should have noticed the error message. cvs admin only works 
on files already in the repository, and a cvs added file is not before 
the first commit.


-Fred



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Never ending story: Building SimGear CVS under Cygwin

2005-10-02 Thread Sergio

Richard Harke a écrit :


freeglut is an alternative to glut, not to OpenGL
mesa is an alternative to OpenGL but it does not have the performance
required for FG 

Interessant : in this case, is there a way to get a better OpenGL as 
this from Mesa ?


I'm very interesting, and i explain me : on Solaris 10x86, 
pkg-downloading FlightGear (whole project, Plib, Simgear, base) we get 
automatically also Mesa, because Solaris 10 itself have no OpenGL. And, 
you are right, Mesa is not sufficient to run acceptably FlightGear.


If a true OpenGL is somewhere available, maybe it can very help !

Cheers,

Sergio




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[Flightgear-devel] Adding Reverse thrust to the b1900d

2005-10-02 Thread George Patterson
The B1900d seemes to have thrust reversers fitted, but the best example
of the cockpit si http://www.pookiedom.com/b1900d/inspiration.htm If I'm
totally wrong and this is a bad example of a cockpit mockup, please let
me know. :-)

I'd be happy to implement this but not sure what it requires. I'm
thinking of borrowing the "code" from the Citation II as it is a similar
sized plane.

A couple of questions on this topic.

1. The Citation has a keystroke bound to the reverse thrust (backspace I
think code: 127). 

If I want to bind it to the throttle instead, can I make the idle
position to cut in at about 10% of the range of the stick with the
reverser starting to kick in below that point.

The idea of having a button to push which activates reverse thrust is a
a little scary.

2. Nasal. I write a nasal script to implement the logic between idle and
reverse thrust being applied, how is that run from within Flightgear.


George Patterson




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[Flightgear-devel] Re: Adding Reverse thrust to the b1900d

2005-10-02 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* George Patterson -- Sunday 02 October 2005 18:34:
> If I want to bind it to the throttle instead, can I make the idle
> position to cut in at about 10% of the range of the stick with the
> reverser starting to kick in below that point.

This would make idling the throttle during flight next to impossible,
for joystick users, but even more for keyboard and mouse users.
I see legions of pilots engaging reverse thrust during flight. IMHO
not a good idea. I think that it should be up to joystick driver
authors where to put reverse thrust functionality. Some joysticks
may have a mechanical stop at 0%, that one has to overcome for
reverse thrust. Here the reverse thrust on the throttle makes sense.
Otherwise not. (Just IMHO. :-)

m.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Adding Reverse thrust to the b1900d

2005-10-02 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
On October 2, 2005 12:34 pm, George Patterson wrote:
> 1. The Citation has a keystroke bound to the reverse thrust (backspace I
> think code: 127).
>
> If I want to bind it to the throttle instead, can I make the idle
> position to cut in at about 10% of the range of the stick with the
> reverser starting to kick in below that point.
Bad idea.  You don't want the pilot to accidently deploy the thrust reverser 
in mid air when all he/she wants to do is slowing down.

> The idea of having a button to push which activates reverse thrust is a
> a little scary.
On many planes, the thrust reverse control is a seperated lever on the 
throttles.  So, there is nothing scary about having another button on the 
keyboard to control reverse thrust in FlightGear.  However, if you really 
want to bind the thrust revser control to the throttle control, I would 
recommend you to consider the "Ctrl+PgDown" combination, with the "Ctrl" bit 
acting as an unlocking mechanism.

> 2. Nasal. I write a nasal script to implement the logic between idle and
> reverse thrust being applied, how is that run from within Flightgear.
http://www.plausible.org/nasal/flightgear.html



Ampere

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[Flightgear-devel] Re: Adding Reverse thrust to the b1900d

2005-10-02 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Melchior FRANZ -- Sunday 02 October 2005 19:01:
> * George Patterson -- Sunday 02 October 2005 18:34:
> > can I make the idle position to cut in at about 10% of the range
> > of the stick with the reverser starting to kick in below that point.

> I think that it should be up to joystick driver authors where to put
> reverse thrust functionality.

We could add an alternative function to controls.nas, analog to
controls.throttleAxis, let's say controls.throttleReverserAxis. This
would then show your suggested behavior for aircraft that come with
reverser, or call the normal function otherwise. The joystick driver
author would then decide for one. Or something ...

m.

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[Flightgear-devel] Re: CVS: data/Navaids TACAN_freq.dat.gz, NONE, 1.1

2005-10-02 Thread Alex Romosan
Erik Hofman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Frederic Bouvier wrote:
>> Nevertheless, this file should be binary for us Windows users. In fact, it is
>> (now ?), but carrier_nav.dat.gz isn't and is corrupted for me.
>> reminder :
>> cvs admin -kb carrier_nav.dat.gz
>
> It was added without the -kb flag but remembered it had to be so I 
> issued the command prior to committing it. It looks like it doesn't work 
> that way.
> It's fixed now.

but TACAN_freq.dat.gz is still a tar archive containing one file. is
this what was intended?

--alex--

-- 
| I believe the moment is at hand when, by a paranoiac and active |
|  advance of the mind, it will be possible (simultaneously with  |
|  automatism and other passive states) to systematize confusion  |
|  and thus to help to discredit completely the world of reality. |

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[Flightgear-devel] Re: Never ending story: Building SimGear CVS under Cygwin

2005-10-02 Thread Alex Romosan
Richard Harke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> freeglut is an alternative to glut, not to OpenGL mesa is an
> alternative to OpenGL but it does not have the performance required
> for FG Normally you need to get 3D accelerated drivers from the
> vendor of your video card, Nvidia or ATI, for example.

this is wrong. i use mesa and the open source radeon 3d drivers (out
of mesa) together with xorg and drm from cvs and i can run flightgear
on my laptop (an ibm thinkpad t40 with an ati firegl 9000 card)
without any problems. the open source drivers are actually faster than
the ati ones because i can run them at 16bpp (the ati drivers run only
at 24bpp). oh, and i can suspend my laptop which is impossible with
the ati drivers.

so please don't spread such nonsense. first of all, mesa as an opengl
implementation is completely different from mesa providing 3d
acceleration. second, for supported cards (which are quite a lot of
them, with the exception of nvidia cards) the open source 3d drivers
are very good.

--alex--

-- 
| I believe the moment is at hand when, by a paranoiac and active |
|  advance of the mind, it will be possible (simultaneously with  |
|  automatism and other passive states) to systematize confusion  |
|  and thus to help to discredit completely the world of reality. |

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Adding Reverse thrust to the b1900d

2005-10-02 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:10:35 -0400, Ampere wrote in message 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > If I want to bind it to the throttle instead, can I make the idle
> > position to cut in at about 10% of the range of the stick with the
> > reverser starting to kick in below that point.
> Bad idea.  You don't want the pilot to accidently deploy the thrust
> reverser  in mid air when all he/she wants to do is slowing down.

..very true.  However some idiots build their planes this way, and even
gets away with selling them this way.  So, is FG a truthful simulator,
or a "good idea game"?  ;o)

-- 
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o)
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.



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[Flightgear-devel] A bugzilla somewhere???

2005-10-02 Thread Tobias Nielsen
Ive might have a few bugs to report to report to Flightgear - but don't
you have a BugZilla or something alike i can report in?

Is there a Documentation repository as weel i can checkout from cvs in
order to examine the code structure a bit?

I have just subscribed to your devel group in order to get some insight
in to the project (and maybe even start adding labor to the project) -
but there was another question that popped into my mind regarding the
organisation of the project group - ain't the group large enough to
argument for a maintainer subgroup?

The other day i saw an bugfix that was argumented with:

Erik Hofman wrote:
> ...
> Fixed, what's next?
> :-)
>
> Erik
>

It lead me to think that code might get committed to the repository in a
somewhat untested state - and might even continue to be so in released
code...

Has someone spent time building a strong test framework (unit tests for
instance) - or are all tests based on trial and error?

Please feel free to correct me - i may be way out of line here

/Tobibobi


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[Flightgear-devel] FlightGearTools Version 1.0 now available

2005-10-02 Thread Georg Vollnhals


FLIGHTGEARTOOLS Version 1.0 for Win32

FlightGearTools is the startup for a tool collection for FlightGear 
under Win32.

The first "page" is related to MAP, ATLAS and FlightGear+Atlas on one PC.
There might be some more "pages" for other stuff if there is interest 
from the user-side.


My intention is to make things easier for those people who are not 
interested in the
complicated stuff you need to make things working but want to use an 
alternative
and promising flightsim.  

I put the complete package as a *.zip file today on my homepage before 
uploading it

to the AVSIM filelibrary (FlightGear) within the next week.
The reason for this is
   a) to have some feedback from users which might result in improving 
something

   before having it deposited at AVSIM where a change is not easy.
   USER:
   Please download the package, read the manual carefully, 
install FlightGearTools,
   install Map/Atlas, do some map work and contact me as soon 
as possible!
   b) to have some feedback of developers who might not want the 
package but

   can read the manual online and give some more hints.
   DEVELOPER:
   Please read the manual below. You might skip all stuff 
regarding FlightGearTools
   but have a look at those passages regarding ATLAS, MAP and 
FlightGear Wizard.
   If you have any idea what could be corrected or improved 
before the upload,
   please contact me as soon as possible (eMail or Atlas devel 
mailing list).

   Thank you for your cooperation.
Here is the link to my homepage:

http://home.arcor.de/vollnhals-bremen/FlightGear/HomeFGToolsM.htm

I have to thank all those who supported me by answering my questions on
the Atlas devel mailing list and with that supported the development of 
this tool and

the manual.

Thank you for your interest and (hopefully) feedback, good and bad :-) )
Regards
Georg EDDW


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A bugzilla somewhere???

2005-10-02 Thread Erik Hofman

Tobias Nielsen wrote:


...
Fixed, what's next?



It lead me to think that code might get committed to the repository in a
somewhat untested state - and might even continue to be so in released
code...


I hope you don't expect any reactions to these kind of accusations, 
otherwise you might get disappointed.


Erik

At least it shows *you* don't have any experience with cross platform 
development. Honestly, I'm getting tired of people who stumble in and 
tell everybody how great everything would be if they had be on the project.


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[Flightgear-devel] Odd beige lines

2005-10-02 Thread Alex Perry
In the southern california deserts, there are beige lines wandering
around the countryside that randomly cross the brown road lines.
The road layout makes sense, but I can't figure out what the beige
lines are supposed to be; their paths don't match obvious landscape
features.  If they're supposed to be streambeds, they're extremely
conspicuous compared to real life and sometimes go up hillsides.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] A bugzilla somewhere???

2005-10-02 Thread Tobias Nielsen
sun, 02 10 2005 kl. 21:39 +0200, Erik Hofman wrote:
> I hope you don't expect any reactions to these kind of accusations, 
> otherwise you might get disappointed.
Okay, it sounded a lot worse than intended - i can easily see that now.
i am sorry.

I will assume that your primary bug tracking tool is this mail list so.

I believe i have heard of a doxygen printout from the source code
somewhere - Is it in updated on a regular basis? and if so, where can i
find it?

/Tobias Nielsen


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Re: Never ending story: Building SimGear CVS under Cygwin

2005-10-02 Thread Richard Harke
On Sun October 2 2005 10:39, Alex Romosan wrote:
> Richard Harke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > freeglut is an alternative to glut, not to OpenGL mesa is an
> > alternative to OpenGL but it does not have the performance required
> > for FG Normally you need to get 3D accelerated drivers from the
> > vendor of your video card, Nvidia or ATI, for example.
>
> this is wrong. i use mesa and the open source radeon 3d drivers (out
> of mesa) together with xorg and drm from cvs and i can run flightgear
> on my laptop (an ibm thinkpad t40 with an ati firegl 9000 card)
> without any problems. the open source drivers are actually faster than
> the ati ones because i can run them at 16bpp (the ati drivers run only
> at 24bpp). oh, and i can suspend my laptop which is impossible with
> the ati drivers.
>
> so please don't spread such nonsense. first of all, mesa as an opengl
> implementation is completely different from mesa providing 3d
> acceleration. second, for supported cards (which are quite a lot of
> them, with the exception of nvidia cards) the open source 3d drivers
> are very good.
>
> --alex--
I guess I should have stopped after saying that freeglut does not replace 
OpenGL. I didn't realize that there was such an improved 3D mesa. I run
an Nvidia card and have had reason to look into it.

Richard

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Odd beige lines

2005-10-02 Thread Lee Elliott
On Sunday 02 Oct 2005 20:51, Alex Perry wrote:
> In the southern california deserts, there are beige lines
> wandering around the countryside that randomly cross the brown
> road lines. The road layout makes sense, but I can't figure
> out what the beige lines are supposed to be; their paths don't
> match obvious landscape features.  If they're supposed to be
> streambeds, they're extremely conspicuous compared to real
> life and sometimes go up hillsides.
>

I'm pretty sure that they're railway lines.

LeeE


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[Flightgear-devel] Digitrak Autopilot 0.1.1

2005-10-02 Thread Steve Knoblock
I have a new version of the Digitrak autopilot ready.

New is the ability to follow a FlightGear GPS course. If Waypoint0 and
Waypoint1 are set in the GPG dialog, the aircraft will intercept and
capture the source line.

To get this to work, you will need to add a dialog to the GUI. It adds
a button to start the intercept. This is necessary because the
Digitrak normally would automatically sense a flight plan from the GPS
automatically through the communications with the autopilot.

It occurred to me that this might be a good way of organizing the
Autopilot menu. For each custom autopilot, the developer could supply
a dialog box. This would help end the confusion over which autopilot
the Autopilot dialog applies to.

Download from

http://www.city-gallery.com/vpilot/flightgear/digitrak-debug-0.1.1.zip

Steve



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[Flightgear-devel] Does FlightGear model eclipse?

2005-10-02 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
There will be an eclipse tomorrow, and I was just wonder whether FlightGear 
has this modelled.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4299074.stm

Ampere

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Crash carnage

2005-10-02 Thread Eric Sorton
On 9/24/05, Curtis L. Olson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One thing we'd like to do that wouldn't be too technically difficult
> would be to get a 2nd receiver on the same channel as the aircraft but
> keep it on the ground.  Pipe the servo outputs from the ground based
> receiver into a little PIC board and decode the PWM signals coming in on
> each channel and send them out the serial port to the ground station.
> This would be a way to record pilot inputs without needing extra
> equipment in the air.  It doesn't tell you about loss of signal or
> interference issues with the airborn system, but it does tell you what
> the pilot is trying to do.

Hi Curt,

FMA Direct FS8 Receiver has serial output which can be used with their
Windows software to view the current position of the control outputs. 
If they provide the protocol (or if it can be reverse engineered), you
could simply read the output of the receiver on-board the aircraft and
control the actual stick inputs.  I'm hoping to acquire one soon for
testing.

In addition, the receiver also records the amount of interference that
is encountered.  Could be useful as you try to determine the amount of
interference produced by the other antennas on the aircraft.

I have a similar setup at work and we have had interference problems
as well as a crash or two :-)

Two questions on your crash ...

1) Did you do the stall test on the Rascal with or without the equipment?
2) Did you possibly point the R/C transmitter antenna at the aircraft?

Pointing the antenna at the aircraft is easy to do when things are
going bad and the aircraft is low to the ground.

Eric

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Crash carnage

2005-10-02 Thread Curtis L. Olson

Eric Sorton wrote:


Hi Curt,

FMA Direct FS8 Receiver has serial output which can be used with their
Windows software to view the current position of the control outputs. 
If they provide the protocol (or if it can be reverse engineered), you

could simply read the output of the receiver on-board the aircraft and
control the actual stick inputs.  I'm hoping to acquire one soon for
testing.

In addition, the receiver also records the amount of interference that
is encountered.  Could be useful as you try to determine the amount of
interference produced by the other antennas on the aircraft.
 



Hi Eric,

That's an interesting lead, I'll have to look into that.  I'm better at 
decoding serial port data than programming PIC chips. :-)



I have a similar setup at work and we have had interference problems
as well as a crash or two :-)

Two questions on your crash ...

1) Did you do the stall test on the Rascal with or without the equipment?
 



We haven't flown it hard with equipment on board, but we have flown 
quite a bit.  We are planning some test flights tomorrow so if we have 
some extra time I might try to mimic the crash flight (at altitude) and 
see if I can reproduce what happen.  That may or may not tell us something.



2) Did you possibly point the R/C transmitter antenna at the aircraft?
 



Well, to complicate matters, we were trying a buddy box system for the 
first time.  I was on the "student" side and the safety pilot was on the 
"instructor" side.  We were setup this way because we were planning to 
have me try to fly off video for the first time.  Our safety pilot is 
pretty sharp and said he was conciously trying to maintain optimal 
antenna alignment the whole time.


We have observed that our range is reduced when our other stuff is 
powered on, but we still range check within Futaba tolerences (50') and 
we have flown a dozen flights or so with the equipment so we figured we 
were good.  I was wondering though if perhaps we managed to get into 
some sort of bad alignment for our receiver antenna, combined with being 
close to the ground, and hit a little dead zone?


We were frustrated to find out our GPS didn't have a lock at the start 
of the flight so we didn't get any position or velocity data.  We did 
get orientation data and that seemed to match my recollections and 
support that the aircraft was doing what I intended it to do ... at 
least up until the data stopped which was a second or two before the 
airplane stopped.  In that last second or two I tried to roll out of my 
turn and bring the nose up (I had let it drop on it's own and stayed off 
the elevator.)  But no dice, I felt like it had zero response to my 
inputs and continued a steep dive right into the ground.  It's hard for 
me to believe that that particular plane at that speed could be in any 
kind of a stall, but I'll have to play around and see if I can make it 
do something similar.


I guess we were expecting this though which is why we had a backup plane 
ready to go, and which is why I should be working on getting Rascal #3 
assembled here in the upcoming weeks. :-)



Pointing the antenna at the aircraft is easy to do when things are
going bad and the aircraft is low to the ground.
 



The thing that surprised me was that my recollection of the flight was 
that the airplane came around in it's turn pretty liesurely and just 
failed to respond when I tried to roll out and bring the nose up, but 
when looking at the orientation data, it all happened very quickly.  Oh 
well, I think we can rebuild Rascal #1, and I keep having to pinch 
myself to make sure I'm not dreaming when I'm out at the field getting 
paid to do this stuff.  Unfortunately it's only a small percentage of my 
week, but as the weather gets colder here in MN I'll be saying 
*fortunately* it's only a small percentage of my week. :-)  Once the 
snow flies we are going to have to figure out if we are going to switch 
to skis (which I have had poor luck with in the past) or find some big 
floats (which people say work well.)  Or find some sort of plowed area 
to fly from ... probably depends alot on what the weather does or 
doesn't do for us here.


Regards,

Curt.

--
Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt
HumanFIRST Program  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
FlightGear Project  http://www.flightgear.org
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Does FlightGear model eclipse?

2005-10-02 Thread George Patterson
On Sun, 2005-10-02 at 19:49 -0400, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote:
> There will be an eclipse tomorrow, and I was just wonder whether FlightGear 
> has this modelled.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4299074.stm
> 
> Ampere
> 

It should do as FlightGear models the path of both the sun and the moon
across the sky.


But as for the darkening of the sky and the like, I'm not sure.


George

You mean an eclipse of the Sun. I prefer seeing the eclipse of the moon


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Does FlightGear model eclipse?

2005-10-02 Thread Durk Talsma
On Monday 03 October 2005 06:37, George Patterson wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-10-02 at 19:49 -0400, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote:
> > There will be an eclipse tomorrow, and I was just wonder whether
> > FlightGear has this modelled.
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4299074.stm
> >
> > Ampere
>
> It should do as FlightGear models the path of both the sun and the moon
> across the sky.
>
>
> But as for the darkening of the sky and the like, I'm not sure.
>
That's indeed about it. Sun and moon come pretty close together in the sky. 
Years back, we discussed once whether it would be possible to actually model 
the darkening/occlusion effects, but in the end decided it was just too much 
work and too far off topic to really pursue. 

Cheers,
Durk

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