Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 06:05:57 +0100, Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..this is with or without oxygen? Without -- oxygen is a very difficult thing to manage in the eastern half of the continent. I could purchase a portable oxygen system good enough for me (not enough for pax) for less than USD 1,000 but almost no FBOs could fill it for me -- out west, near the Rockies, oxygen is a standard service, but not around here. That means that I'd have to find a local oxygen supplier (a scuba shop? a welding supplier?) and take the tank there after every few hours of use to have it refilled -- you can see how that's a non-starter for long cross-country trips. Here's something I'm curious about: since airliners typically pressurize to about 7,000 ft but hypoxia can affect night vision even at 5,000 ft, do airline pilots ever worry about this issue? I'm guessing not, because they always use approaches to land, and when you're already lined up with the runway night vision isn't really an issue. All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:16:02 -0500, David wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 06:05:57 +0100, Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..this is with or without oxygen? Without -- oxygen is a very difficult thing to manage in the eastern half of the continent. I could purchase a portable oxygen system good enough for me (not enough for pax) for less than USD 1,000 but almost ..you don't need it for your pax, just for your own night vision in a pinch, like when you find yourself burning reserve gas above some dead airport with no electricity except possibly your own magnetos. ..the exception for pax oxygen, would be if airliner pax helps out in SAR at night. no FBOs could fill it for me -- out west, near the Rockies, oxygen is a standard service, but not around here. That means that I'd have to find a local oxygen supplier (a scuba shop? a welding supplier?) and ..scuba shops sells oxygen??? Welding oxygen _can_ be made pure enough, argon, nitrogen, and (up to 7%) CO2 etc is acceptable ;-), the eerie part is what else is in those welder bottles. take the tank there after every few hours of use to have it refilled -- you can see how that's a non-starter for long cross-country trips. ..oh yeah, I consider it an emergency tool to boost your night vision, _when_ you need it. Here's something I'm curious about: since airliners typically pressurize to about 7,000 ft but hypoxia can affect night vision even at 5,000 ft, do airline pilots ever worry about this issue? ..well, oxygen is fed to pax thru constant flow masks while the cockpit crew uses on-deman masks, so that problem is solved, and if they need night vision, they can have it, AFAIK. Dave C, you have experience here, does airline pilots ever use oxygen to boost night vision? I'm guessing not, because they always use approaches to land, and when you're already lined up with the runway night vision isn't really an issue. ..seeing the lights makes this a non-issue, but you _can_ see the Osama prank potential here. ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
..well, oxygen is fed to pax thru constant flow masks while the cockpit crew uses on-deman masks, so that problem is solved, and if they need night vision, they can have it, AFAIK. Dave C, you have experience here, does airline pilots ever use oxygen to boost night vision? No, but in the military it was sometimes used to cure hangovers :) Dave -- David Culp [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
RE: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
..well, oxygen is fed to pax thru constant flow masks while the cockpit crew uses on-deman masks, so that problem is solved, and if they need night vision, they can have it, AFAIK. Dave C, you have experience here, does airline pilots ever use oxygen to boost night vision? No, but in the military it was sometimes used to cure hangovers :) What a suggestion! I never went on 100% O2 on the ground, honest. Vivian ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 17:15:26 -, Vivian wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ..well, oxygen is fed to pax thru constant flow masks while the cockpit crew uses on-deman masks, so that problem is solved, and if they need night vision, they can have it, AFAIK. Dave C, you have experience here, does airline pilots ever use oxygen to boost night vision? No, but in the military it was sometimes used to cure hangovers :) What a suggestion! I never went on 100% O2 on the ground, honest. ..how many % placebo? ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
On November 8, 2004 11:58 am, David Culp wrote: ..well, oxygen is fed to pax thru constant flow masks while the cockpit crew uses on-deman masks, so that problem is solved, and if they need night vision, they can have it, AFAIK. Dave C, you have experience here, does airline pilots ever use oxygen to boost night vision? No, but in the military it was sometimes used to cure hangovers :) Dave Heard of that. =) Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
For example, do we properly model the impact on night vision from hypoxia? ... and MUCH more This is kinda related to my earlier note about modeling St. Elmo's Fire. There are two kinds of visual effect that would be nice to have in FG that don't currently exist. One kind is visual effects that appear on the windscreen. With a 2D cockpit this would be a layer of display that goes between the world and the panel. It would model rain, snow, St. Elmo's fire, maybe. The other kind of visual effect is that which is placed at the pilot's eye. This would include g-effects and glare. In a 2D cockpit this effect would be the last one drawn, or highest in the z-order. 3D cockpits would be different. The windscreen layer would be a texture applied to the windscreen (?), however the eye layer would be drawn the same. As for the HUD, it would have to be drawn after the windscreen effects, but before the eye effects. Dave -- David Culp [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:14:44 +0100, Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..eh, in RL, you often _can't_ see the ground at night, just lights. I'll confirm that. The runway and taxiway lights are aimed up and do not illuminate the pavement at all (not even a tiny area around each light). That's why you need landing (and often taxi) lights. Even with a landing/taxi light, taxiing on a cloudy or moonless night is enormously difficult -- you can hardly see the yellow line or the turnoffs, and most of the time you're just rolling through a sea of blackness. If anything, the ground in FlightGear is too bright at night. It's appropriate for a well-lit urban area or a full moon on a clear night, but the runway is far too bright for a cloudy night. For example, do we properly model the impact on night vision from hypoxia? That's a surprisingly sneaky thing in real life. At night, descending from (say) 6,000 ft enroute altitude to the airport, I have a couple of times had a *lot* of trouble finding the airport at night. I don't feel like I'm having trouble seeing; it's just that the lights don't stand out. That's never a problem if I'm lined up with the runway on an approach, because those lights are so bright and directional, but even then judging the flare is a big challenge. All the best, David -- http://www.megginson.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
Re: [Flightgear-devel] ..modelling night vision loss to hypoxia rant ; -), was; The Rant
On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:11:22 -0500, David wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 17:14:44 +0100, Arnt Karlsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ..eh, in RL, you often _can't_ see the ground at night, just lights. I'll confirm that. The runway and taxiway lights are aimed up and do not illuminate the pavement at all (not even a tiny area around each light). That's why you need landing (and often taxi) lights. Even with a landing/taxi light, taxiing on a cloudy or moonless night is enormously difficult -- you can hardly see the yellow line or the turnoffs, and most of the time you're just rolling through a sea of blackness. If anything, the ground in FlightGear is too bright at night. It's appropriate for a well-lit urban area or a full moon on a clear night, but the runway is far too bright for a cloudy night. For example, do we properly model the impact on night vision from hypoxia? That's a surprisingly sneaky thing in real life. At night, descending from (say) 6,000 ft enroute altitude to the airport, I have a couple of times had a *lot* of trouble finding the airport at night. I don't feel like I'm having trouble seeing; it's just that the lights don't stand out. That's never a problem if I'm lined up with the runway on an approach, because those lights are so bright and directional, but even then judging the flare is a big challenge. ..this is with or without oxygen? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
