Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ground in FlightGear
Am Sonntag 30 März 2008 schrieb BARANGER Emmanuel: Hi all, After some tries on the Paris scenery and with nels' help on jabber, here are a few screenshots showing how much a textured ground dramatically improves Flightgear rendering. http://helijah.free.fr/ground/JPG-Version/ Well, for now the method is just eavy as we have to make use of materials.xml. But still, isn't this a convaincing result ? While this might seem superior on first glance, I see many issues with that simple approach, some of them noticeable even in your screenshots: * Using aerial photography on a worldwide scale means creating a second google earth, with all related demands as to storage space. Not to mention copyright issues/free data sources. * Usually the pictures contain shadows that naturally don't align with the sim state most of the time. Even worse the shadow code of FG might create doubled shadows in opposite directions. * Any misplaced buildings spring to eye immediately as there is a ghost groundplan visible some distance away (see the Orly shots). * All aerial photos that are not orthorectified contain distortions (depending on altitude and lateral distance of the shooting aircraft), that might be impossible to cover by a 3d building even if placed correctly. This is especially true for high rises and skyscrapers. * In the densely populated areas of Paris note the mismatch between the 3d buildings and the streets. This is not specific to aerial photos but more pronounced, as more streets are directly visible. * As it looks nice in still images at a certain altitude, I suppose much of the effect is lost in a live session, as depth perception is improved with motion. In Paris this degradation is probably covered by the hundreds of 3d buildings which aren't available elsewhere (yet). That said, I don't think your approach is meaningless. Given that the project area is small and built up areas are covered with 3d buildings it provides a more detailed and more accurate view of the project area than the standard approach. Depending on the projects goals this might be what you want, as also Curt has shown in his synthetic view video. So having kind of a tutorial or howto seems to be a good idea, so that others might reproduce what you've done in Paris. Thomas - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] New models
Given the current enthusiasm for sea-going models I've just created: Models/Maritime/Misc Models/Maritime/Civilian Models/Maritime/Military They've been populated with a bunch of models converted from the Naval Postgrad School's SAVAGE archive. The models are currently untextured, although some of them do have materials set to give them some colour. If anyone wants to improve on these, or has requests for other models they'd like to see converted (some are better than others, and the conversion script is currently only in the very early stages, so I can't promise I'll be able to convert any particular model) then you can find the archive here: https://savage.nps.edu/Savage/ Jon - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Scenery 1.0.0 coastline is not processed
Ralf Gerlich wrote: Ralf Gerlich wrote: Currently there is no shapefile version of GSHHS 1.5, which was available for 1.3, so we need to get some tool to import the custom binary format of GSHHS into the database, including the handling of shorelines crossing the dateline, etc (e.g. Eurasia continent definition). Yes, this is on my TODO-list, and no, it's not on top. ...volunteers welcome ;-) Not any more. I have implemented this tool on the weekend and the import of GSHHS 1.6 into the database is running. The result will be closed polygon layers. Cheers, Ralf - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Frankfurt (EDDF) scenery SVN now available
Christian Schmitt wrote: Hello, here is a short update: Today I went to EDDF to take some photos of as many buildings and things as possible, to be able to better create textures. Some of the results can already be seen in SVN. However, I have one problem: There is reconstruction going on on gate c/d and they built a new tower-like thing there. I also read there will be more A380 parkings. I was not able to take a detailed shot of this, so if anybody is able to provide me with some photos of that new construction, I'd be very greateful. Other pictures are welcome, too :-) Cheers, Chris I was lucky to find some pics of this new construction on the web. Together with a plan of EDDF i was able to more or less measure the sizes of the new Gate D and texture it. It is already in SVN. Cheers, Chris - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP
Hi About 10 days ago I got fed up with low frame rates using OSG around KSFO, so I went out and bought the best nVidia AGP card that I could find - 7600gs with 512Mb of VRAM. I fitted it with great anticipation to my machine - P4 2.8Ghz/800Mhz FSB with 1.5 Gb of RAM running XP - and, precisely NOTHING. No change in frame rate between the new card and the old - a FX6200 with 256Mb VRAM - for FG-OSG-HEAD. On the other hand plib-HEAD flies. Here are some comparative results: Aircraft: Seahawk OSG PLIB KSFOGeneral Ocean KSFOGeneral Ocean every check box turned to off: 25 30 604580 117 with everything checked, traffic manager on: 15 25 362550 80 as above with shadows and 3d clouds: 1840 65 as above but with trees and precipitation: 10 15 40 (but the rain turned itself off!) Aircraft: c172p every check box turned to off: 3340 60 4590 130 with everything checked, traffic manager on: 2733 40 3050 75 as above with shadows and 3d clouds: 3050 65 as above but with trees and precipitation: 1525 30 Aircraft: Buccaneer (particles) as above but with trees and precipitation: 818 20 In addition to the difference in frame rate, OSG also stutters, while plib is commendably smooth. I've tried both executables generated here using MSVC8, and Fred's pre-cooked binaries. So far as I can see the results are identical. I've profiled both OSG and plib - for anyone interested, some of the results are here: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk/fgfs/OSG/ While I am no expert in profiling code, the results seem to me to show that we are getting stuck in the bowels of OSG somewhere, while plib is well-ordered, with no particular cpu-hog, which is pretty much what the above table indicates. My principle concern is that there appears to be very little headroom for future developments in OSG for shadows, or 3d clouds, or landing lights, on what is a not-very-old and pretty capable machine. I would be grateful if some Windows user(s) could confirm at least the shape of these comparative results. I understand that Linux users get much better results than these. We might be getting towards the point when Windows users are stuck with plib (and that's not all bad) while Linux users get to play with all the new goodies. We might be drifting away from our cross platform ethic. Vivian Luckily the new card wasn't terribly expensive otherwise I would be quite p'd off - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP
--- Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Hi About 10 days ago I got fed up with low frame rates using OSG around KSFO, so I went out and bought the best nVidia AGP card that I could find - 7600gs with 512Mb of VRAM. I fitted it with great anticipation to my machine - P4 2.8Ghz/800Mhz FSB with 1.5 Gb of RAM running XP - and, precisely NOTHING. No change in frame rate between the new card and the old - a FX6200 with 256Mb VRAM - for FG-OSG-HEAD. On the other hand plib-HEAD flies. Here are some comparative results: Aircraft: Seahawk OSG PLIB KSFOGeneral Ocean KSFOGeneral Ocean every check box turned to off: 25 30 60 4580 117 with everything checked, traffic manager on: 15 25 36 2550 80 as above with shadows and 3d clouds: 1840 65 as above but with trees and precipitation: 10 15 40 (but the rain turned itself off!) Aircraft: c172p every check box turned to off: 3340 60 4590 130 with everything checked, traffic manager on: 2733 40 3050 75 as above with shadows and 3d clouds: 3050 65 as above but with trees and precipitation: 1525 30 Aircraft: Buccaneer (particles) as above but with trees and precipitation: 818 20 In addition to the difference in frame rate, OSG also stutters, while plib is commendably smooth. I've tried both executables generated here using MSVC8, and Fred's pre-cooked binaries. So far as I can see the results are identical. I've profiled both OSG and plib - for anyone interested, some of the results are here: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk/fgfs/OSG/ While I am no expert in profiling code, the results seem to me to show that we are getting stuck in the bowels of OSG somewhere, while plib is well-ordered, with no particular cpu-hog, which is pretty much what the above table indicates. My principle concern is that there appears to be very little headroom for future developments in OSG for shadows, or 3d clouds, or landing lights, on what is a not-very-old and pretty capable machine. I would be grateful if some Windows user(s) could confirm at least the shape of these comparative results. I understand that Linux users get much better results than these. We might be getting towards the point when Windows users are stuck with plib (and that's not all bad) while Linux users get to play with all the new goodies. We might be drifting away from our cross platform ethic. Vivian Luckily the new card wasn't terribly expensive otherwise I would be quite p'd off Hi, With the recent built by Fred I found the old stutters again- but I could sovle this for me. But I can't see any of those problems you have- I can run FGFS with all features we have - plus heavy self-written interactive traffic and mp. And the best- I can run other programs beside too without any problems (blender as an graphic example!) You should know, that you have to set some things on your pc, Nvidea and FGFS: - switch Vsync in the Nvidea settings - use the frame-rate-throttle! I use a CoreDuo 2,6 Ghz and a Gainward 8800GT - but there were people in the german forum and the official forum (kid's playground) having no problems with the recent OSG-built on lower pc. And the difference between a 8800 and 7600 isn't really far. Even on my old PC with a FX5200 OSG run very pretty at least. It is true that OSG is slower than plib- but the graphic is much better (exxept the 3D-clouds and the missing shadows)- please not another discussion about OSG vs Plib! Regards HHS still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html E-Mails jetzt auf Ihrem Handy. www.yahoo.de/go - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP
Heiko Schulz wrote Sent: 31 March 2008 20:45 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP Vivian Meazza schrieb: Hi About 10 days ago I got fed up with low frame rates using OSG around KSFO, so I went out and bought the best nVidia AGP card that I could find - 7600gs with 512Mb of VRAM. I fitted it with great anticipation to my machine - P4 2.8Ghz/800Mhz FSB with 1.5 Gb of RAM running XP - and, precisely NOTHING. No change in frame rate between the new card and the old - a FX6200 with 256Mb VRAM - for FG-OSG-HEAD. On the other hand plib-HEAD flies. Here are some comparative results: Aircraft: Seahawk OSG PLIB KSFOGeneral Ocean KSFOGeneral Ocean every check box turned to off: 25 30 60 4580 117 with everything checked, traffic manager on: 15 25 36 2550 80 as above with shadows and 3d clouds: 1840 65 as above but with trees and precipitation: 10 15 40 (but the rain turned itself off!) Aircraft: c172p every check box turned to off: 3340 60 4590 130 with everything checked, traffic manager on: 2733 40 3050 75 as above with shadows and 3d clouds: 3050 65 as above but with trees and precipitation: 1525 30 Aircraft: Buccaneer (particles) as above but with trees and precipitation: 818 20 In addition to the difference in frame rate, OSG also stutters, while plib is commendably smooth. I've tried both executables generated here using MSVC8, and Fred's pre-cooked binaries. So far as I can see the results are identical. I've profiled both OSG and plib - for anyone interested, some of the results are here: ftp://abbeytheatre2.org.uk/fgfs/OSG/ While I am no expert in profiling code, the results seem to me to show that we are getting stuck in the bowels of OSG somewhere, while plib is well-ordered, with no particular cpu-hog, which is pretty much what the above table indicates. My principle concern is that there appears to be very little headroom for future developments in OSG for shadows, or 3d clouds, or landing lights, on what is a not-very-old and pretty capable machine. I would be grateful if some Windows user(s) could confirm at least the shape of these comparative results. I understand that Linux users get much better results than these. We might be getting towards the point when Windows users are stuck with plib (and that's not all bad) while Linux users get to play with all the new goodies. We might be drifting away from our cross platform ethic. Vivian Luckily the new card wasn't terribly expensive otherwise I would be quite p'd off Hi, With the recent built by Fred I found the old stutters again- but I could sovle this for me. But I can't see any of those problems you have- I can run FGFS with all features we have - plus heavy self-written interactive traffic and mp. And the best- I can run other programs beside too without any problems (blender as an graphic example!) You should know, that you have to set some things on your pc, Nvidea and FGFS: - switch Vsync in the Nvidea settings - use the frame-rate-throttle! I use a CoreDuo 2,6 Ghz and a Gainward 8800GT - but there were people in the german forum and the official forum (kid's playground) having no problems with the recent OSG-built on lower pc. And the difference between a 8800 and 7600 isn't really far. Even on my old PC with a FX5200 OSG run very pretty at least. It is true that OSG is slower than plib- but the graphic is much better (exxept the 3D-clouds and the missing shadows)- please not another discussion about OSG vs Plib! CoreDuo 2,6 Ghz and a Gainward 8800GT. Not surprised it runs well!!! In particular I think the CoreDuo does threading better than the P4. In case you haven't noticed, the 7600gs is coping easily with the output from FG-OSG - that's why the frame rates didn't increase. And what would Vsync do? The frame rate never gets anywhere near the point at which it might operate. I've tried frame-rate-throttle - it just makes it worse. The graphics are absolutely no different here between OSG or plib that I can see, and why should they be? Could we have some _real_ numbers to compare instead of hearsay. This is not a OSG versus plib discussion
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP
On lun 31 mars 2008, Vivian Meazza wrote: SNIP Even on my old PC with a FX5200 OSG run very pretty at least. It is true that OSG is slower than plib- but the graphic is much better (exxept the 3D-clouds and the missing shadows)- please not another discussion about OSG vs Plib! CoreDuo 2,6 Ghz and a Gainward 8800GT. Not surprised it runs well!!! In particular I think the CoreDuo does threading better than the P4. In case you haven't noticed, the 7600gs is coping easily with the output from FG-OSG - that's why the frame rates didn't increase. And what would Vsync do? The frame rate never gets anywhere near the point at which it might operate. I've tried frame-rate-throttle - it just makes it worse. The graphics are absolutely no different here between OSG or plib that I can see, and why should they be? Could we have some _real_ numbers to compare instead of hearsay. This is not a OSG versus plib discussion - it's a why OSG is so poor on XP discussion Vivian Hello, Vivian You are right :) AND, with Linux and the same Graphics Card 7800 GS 512 MB, i can notice the same decrease of performance from FG-PLIB to FG-OSG , I ever had about 20% less performance with OSG. I am running FG on AMD ATHLON 3200 (32 bit) with AGP mothercard. May be OSG is more accurate with modern (recent) CPU. (i must test it). Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP
AND, with Linux and the same Graphics Card 7800 GS 512 MB, i can notice the same decrease of performance from FG-PLIB to FG-OSG , I ever had about 20% less performance with OSG. I am running FG on AMD ATHLON 3200 (32 bit) with AGP mothercard. May be OSG is more accurate with modern (recent) CPU. (i must test it). Cheers -- I notice a difference between OSG and Plib too- but this is known! But we can discuss and find out, how to make it faster- time for Tim to answer! still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html Lesen Sie Ihre E-Mails jetzt einfach von unterwegs. www.yahoo.de/go - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP
CoreDuo 2,6 Ghz and a Gainward 8800GT. Not surprised it runs well!!! If you read carefully, I said that even on my old pc there wasn't any trouble! In particular I think the CoreDuo does threading better than the P4. In case you haven't noticed, the 7600gs is coping easily with the output from FG-OSG - that's why the frame rates didn't increase. And what would Vsync do? The frame rate never gets anywhere near the point at which it might operate. Really? I don't believe that if I look at your PC - it is better than my old one I've tried frame-rate-throttle - it just makes it worse. The graphics are absolutely no different here between OSG or plib that I can see, and why should they be? You are the first and only one yet having problems with that- the kids in our kids corner havn't this problem yet. Could we have some _real_ numbers to compare instead of hearsay. This is not a OSG versus plib discussion - it's a why OSG is so poor on XP discussion It isn't poor on XP- I had framerates about 25-37 on my old 2.8HG single core and Nvidea FX5200 - with the tree shader I had about 17-25fps- absolut usuable. (KSFO, 28R, Noon, 1024x768, all boxes are checked) Note: the FX5200 is the lowest card. And: Windows XP needs a lot of perfomance - linux not! And that's the fact why a lot of things are running faster on Linux systems! But we can always talk about how to make FGFS faster! I think you have to check your pc first- still in work: http://www.hoerbird.net/galerie.html But already done: http://www.hoerbird.net/reisen.html Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los geht's: http://de.yahoo.com/set - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] performace tuning for FG (was: Frame Rates under Windows XP)
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Heiko Schulz wrote: But we can always talk about how to make FGFS faster! I think you have to check your pc first- Is there any tool/application in the FlightGear Air Wing (or even in the nascent Marine Division) that would help a user adjust operating system parameters to improve FG performance? This tool could inventory a system and make suggestions - install more memory, change *this* setting on the graphics card, disable swapping, whatever (I'm making these up). -- Mike Schuh - Seattle, Washington USA http://www.farmdale.com - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Maritime // Was: Ship 3d models
Hi Ron, Detlef and Jon, your contributions are very valuable from the point of view of someone creating coastal scenery. Therefore I have to thank all of you. @Ron: Thank you for your permission to reuse the O.E. Sette ship. Although Detlef just presented a SAR ship which I was thinking of, the O.E. Sette is a bigger shipclass and therefore interesting, too. @Detlef: Very nice SAR ship, some sort of DGzRS class. Not easy to land on the platform, a real task. The BO105 is best choice for that :-) All the other features will be tested next weekend. @Jon: I autoplaced your new Maritime models somewhere near the coast and had a short look at them. Very, very nice collection. There are a lot of models which are usable for FG only with some paint applied, no texturing necessary. Due to the early morning hour I will stop here and come back with some more remarks tomorrow. Georg EDDW - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] CVS - Frame Rates under Windows XP
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've tried both executables generated here using MSVC8, and Fred's pre-cooked binaries. So far as I can see the results are identical. Here is a mingw32 build made with gcc 4.3.0 if you want to give it a try: http://www.youshare.com/view.php?file=fg-mingw.zip I can only say it starts and the menu works (tested using a virtual machine through remote desktop :) No warranties, might have left out a dozen files from the archive... -- Csaba/Jester - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Keyboard Flight Controls Inop when using the autopilot as a flight-director
It was pointed out to me on IRC that the B1900d cannot be flown with the keyboard. Some investigation on my part shows: - Keyboard.xml calls controls.incElevator() - incElevator only allows the elevators to move if /autopilot/locks/altitude is zero. - The b1900d uses the autopilot in passive (flightdirector) mode, thus setting /autopilot/locks/altitude to pitch-hold - similar problem exists for the ailerons and throttle. It looks like the checks needs to look for /autopilot/locks/passive-mode and free the controls if its true. Looking for someone to suggest some good code :) Ron - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Malolo 2 Landing (movie)
Hey, Just a quick update ... here's a video of our Malolo 2 landing in the ocean ... 2 good flights today ... 45 minutes each. We are spotting lots of debris fragments and smaller chunks but we haven't hit the big jackpot yet. http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/PhotoAlbums/OscarSette2008/Malolo%202%20landing.wmvhttp://baron.flightgear.org/%7Ecurt/PhotoAlbums/OscarSette2008/Malolo%202%20landing.wmv Sent from W154:00 N35:27 heading north right now. Keeping busy ... no time to get bored out here ... Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
