Re: [Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04
At Tuesday 04 March 2008 18:25:02 Anders Gidenstam wrote: On Tue, 4 Mar 2008, Pietro wrote: and Oliver wrote: The server forwards all packets to every directly connected clients (ie. users) and every server it knows about. I agree with 'the nature of the beast', as LeeE stated. Server acting as mery packet relay can't do more. Server should act as packet filtering relay, for ex. if I'm flying over south Italy, all San Francisco zone traffic info are of no interest for me. So IMHO we need no universal servers but zone servers. Theoretically if no player connected to Europe zone server is flying over North America and no player connected to North America zone server is flying over Europe, these two servers have no need to communicate each other. The mpservers already do a simple form of distance based filtering: 1. Server to directly connected clients: An mpserver only relay data to (its local) clients within 50nm of the source. 2. Inter-server relaying. Data from a local client is only relayed at full speed to those mpservers that have clients within 50nm of the source. The data feed to other mpservers is reduced to about one packet per second (the rest from that client are not relayed). The reduced rate relay is need to keep all mpservers informed about all players. Of course, since nearly all MP activity occurs with 50nm of KSFO these measures have a limited effect. But still, mpserver06 has a much lower bandwidth usage than e.g. 02 thanks to few local clients and this scheme. Cheers, Anders Ah, nice to know it. I didn't see sources and doc isn't talking about it. Regards, Pietro - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04
On Tue, 4 Mar 2008, Pietro wrote: and Oliver wrote: The server forwards all packets to every directly connected clients (ie. users) and every server it knows about. I agree with 'the nature of the beast', as LeeE stated. Server acting as mery packet relay can't do more. Server should act as packet filtering relay, for ex. if I'm flying over south Italy, all San Francisco zone traffic info are of no interest for me. So IMHO we need no universal servers but zone servers. Theoretically if no player connected to Europe zone server is flying over North America and no player connected to North America zone server is flying over Europe, these two servers have no need to communicate each other. The mpservers already do a simple form of distance based filtering: 1. Server to directly connected clients: An mpserver only relay data to (its local) clients within 50nm of the source. 2. Inter-server relaying. Data from a local client is only relayed at full speed to those mpservers that have clients within 50nm of the source. The data feed to other mpservers is reduced to about one packet per second (the rest from that client are not relayed). The reduced rate relay is need to keep all mpservers informed about all players. Of course, since nearly all MP activity occurs with 50nm of KSFO these measures have a limited effect. But still, mpserver06 has a much lower bandwidth usage than e.g. 02 thanks to few local clients and this scheme. Cheers, Anders -- --- Anders Gidenstam mail: anders(at)gidenstam.org WWW: http://www.gidenstam.org/FlightGear/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04
LeeE wrote: It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. Even if people are not logging directly into mpserver04 all FG MP traffic has to be echoed to it, so each FG MP server needs the same synchronisation bandwidth. Any clients who connect to the FG net via mpserver04 will only increase the bandwidth further. Its a shame but you probably have little choice:( LeeE and Oliver wrote: The server forwards all packets to every directly connected clients (ie. users) and every server it knows about. and Pigeon wrote: A single MP packet is close to at least 500 byte currently. So at a typical 10Hz rate that gives 5kB/s per server per player. And of course the more players, the more packet the server will receive as well as forward onto other players. And then there's server relay part, which essentially another copy of the packet upstream. Guess we could put together a formula to calculate given the number of players and relays. I agree with 'the nature of the beast', as LeeE stated. Server acting as mery packet relay can't do more. Server should act as packet filtering relay, for ex. if I'm flying over south Italy, all San Francisco zone traffic info are of no interest for me. So IMHO we need no universal servers but zone servers. Theoretically if no player connected to Europe zone server is flying over North America and no player connected to North America zone server is flying over Europe, these two servers have no need to communicate each other. Unfortunatelly, I think it isn't anythink new, everebody can reach this idea, the hard part is write that server ;) Regards, Pietro - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04 - new mpserver?
mpserver: traffic usage (approx)? Perhaps someone has a MRTG/RRD picture??? On mpserver02, which is currently the most used server (about 70%), consumes an average of 15GB of data daily. Throughout a day its average bandwidth usage is about 200kB/s, with a peak speed of about 650kB/s (mostly upstream). A single MP packet is close to at least 500 byte currently. So at a typical 10Hz rate that gives 5kB/s per server per player. And of course the more players, the more packet the server will receive as well as forward onto other players. And then there's server relay part, which essentially another copy of the packet upstream. Guess we could put together a formula to calculate given the number of players and relays. map server: how much storage is needed and how much traffic would be created (approx.)? FGMap itself is about 7MB on disk. Traffic wise it should be nothing as it's one html page plus a bunch of javascript files. And from that point onwards all the map data are directly served by Google. At the moment the client constantly polls the server CGI, and by default it's once request every 5 seconds. Status responses are XMLs which is about 180 bytes per player. What I should say is the traffic is really nothing. Pigeon. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04 - new mpserver?
Hi all, On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 03:20:20PM +0100, Csaba Hal?sz wrote: On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 3:13 PM, tpalinkas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We at Allied-Visions GmbH are pondering running an mpserver on one of our servers (with 100 mbit access). We have a few questions regarding to mpservers: - is it useful for the community to have one more mpserver? If you can also run a map server that would be very nice, IMHO. Can anyone tell me how much resources are needed? mpserver: traffic usage (approx)? Perhaps someone has a MRTG/RRD picture??? map server: how much storage is needed and how much traffic would be created (approx.)? Perhaps I have a wonderful solution for this but I need some numbers. Also I need some arguments why this one should be run (perhaps with scientific background (big projects with scientific background)). Regards, Holger -- # ## ## Holger Wirtz Phone : (+49 30) 884299-40 ## ## ## ### ## DFN-Verein Fax : (+49 30) 884299-70 ## ## ## Stresemannstr. 78E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## ## ## ## ### 10963 Berlin # ## ## ## GERMANY WWW : http://www.dfn.de GPG-Fingerprint: ABFA 1F51 DD8D 503C 85DC 0C51 E961 79E2 6685 9BCF - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04 - new mpserver?
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008, Forums Virgin Net wrote: Dear all, I have just notified Curt that I am closing mpserver04 permanently unless a solution can be done to prevent the demand from over riding and making my day to day normal usage completely useless. Details: Since mpserver 05 closed down my server has been suffering excess strain to the point that I am unable to use my broadband at all most of the time. (Without temporary pausing of the service) Problems such as not been able to open webpages due to time outs to download failures when using YouTube or other downloads, and because of these serious problems, I am having I am terminating my server also. Unless someone can reduce the priority via the server so that the network is not totally stalled out on other machines on my 4 pc network, and server 04 be not so demanding during other network traffic demands, then I will be to shutting down server04 completely within a few days. I am sorry but their is nothing else I can do here, my upstream is being saturated to the point that I am constantly finding my connection more problematic that servicable to me. Aerotro Dear flightgear users, We at Allied-Visions GmbH are pondering running an mpserver on one of our servers (with 100 mbit access). We have a few questions regarding to mpservers: - is it useful for the community to have one more mpserver? - how much resource (CPU, memory, bandwith) should we allocate? - where to get the source code and documentation of mpserver? - other info/experience about installing, maintaining, security, etc. is also welcome Tibor Palinkas Allied-Visions GmbH - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04
Dear all, I have just notified Curt that I am closing mpserver04 permanently unless a solution can be done to prevent the demand from over riding and making my day to day normal usage completely useless. Details: Since mpserver 05 closed down my server has been suffering excess strain to the point that I am unable to use my broadband at all most of the time. (Without temporary pausing of the service) Problems such as not been able to open webpages due to time outs to download failures when using YouTube or other downloads, and because of these serious problems, I am having I am terminating my server also. Unless someone can reduce the priority via the server so that the network is not totally stalled out on other machines on my 4 pc network, and server 04 be not so demanding during other network traffic demands, then I will be to shutting down server04 completely within a few days. I am sorry but their is nothing else I can do here, my upstream is being saturated to the point that I am constantly finding my connection more problematic that servicable to me. Aerotro Online FlightGear Simulator Tracker Page. http://mpserver04.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04
Dear all, I have just notified Curt that I am closing mpserver04 permanently unless a solution can be done to prevent the demand from over riding and making my day to day normal usage completely useless. Details: Since mpserver 05 closed down my server has been suffering excess strain to the point that I am unable to use my broadband at all most of the time. (Without temporary pausing of the service) Problems such as not been able to open webpages due to time outs to download failures when using YouTube or other downloads, and because of these serious problems, I am having I am terminating my server also. Unless someone can reduce the priority via the server so that the network is not totally stalled out on other machines on my 4 pc network, and server 04 be not so demanding during other network traffic demands, then I will be to shutting down server04 completely within a few days. I am sorry but their is nothing else I can do here, my upstream is being saturated to the point that I am constantly finding my connection more problematic that servicable to me. Aerotro Online FlightGear Simulator Tracker Page. http://mpserver04.flightgear.org http://www.flightgear.org- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] I am going to terminate mpserver04
On Thursday 28 February 2008 19:58, Forums Virgin Net wrote: Dear all, I have just notified Curt that I am closing mpserver04 permanently unless a solution can be done to prevent the demand from over riding and making my day to day normal usage completely useless. Details: Since mpserver 05 closed down my server has been suffering excess strain to the point that I am unable to use my broadband at all most of the time. (Without temporary pausing of the service) Problems such as not been able to open webpages due to time outs to download failures when using YouTube or other downloads, and because of these serious problems, I am having I am terminating my server also. Unless someone can reduce the priority via the server so that the network is not totally stalled out on other machines on my 4 pc network, and server 04 be not so demanding during other network traffic demands, then I will be to shutting down server04 completely within a few days. I am sorry but their is nothing else I can do here, my upstream is being saturated to the point that I am constantly finding my connection more problematic that servicable to me. Aerotro It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. Even if people are not logging directly into mpserver04 all FG MP traffic has to be echoed to it, so each FG MP server needs the same synchronisation bandwidth. Any clients who connect to the FG net via mpserver04 will only increase the bandwidth further. Its a shame but you probably have little choice:( LeeE - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
